what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of stacking slabs your hobby content alternative i trust you are well appreciate you spending a little bit of time with me talking about cards talking about business talking about trends all of those things in this space it has been a lot of fun connecting with so many of you outside of the podcast i appreciate everybody who slides in the dms gives me feedback it is fuel i do not take that for granted we are continuing to build this damn platform out one episode at a time and i couldn't feel more excited i couldn't feel more passionate i couldn't feel more motivated to continue to build in this space we have a fun episode for you before we jump into that i wanted to share some perspective of something that i have seen since we launched hobbyjobs now we spend a lot of time talking about cards but we don't spend enough time talking about the people behind the hobby and if you've ever thought about working in this space or taking it more seriously you've probably realized there's no real road map when i left my fifteen year career in technology to go all in on building a media business in the sports card industry there certainly wasn't a playbook there weren't many resources and everything was really buried in conversations dms and silos jobs are scattered information is fragmented operators aren't sharing what actually works people who want in don't even know where to start so that's why i launched hobbyjobs last week it's where i'm sharing available jobs in the industry and more importantly insights from the people actually building businesses inside of it this isn't just for people looking for a job it's for anyone who wants to understand how this industry actually works whether you're running a business thinking about starting one or just curious about what's possible the first edition brought a ton of operators people actually running shops platforms and businesses the conversations already happening for me are a lot different based on that and that's really encouraging i dropped the second edition this past week and i shared some perspective on after i survived year one of going all in on this how i began to build a system to get organized to make this more sustainable and that came from the lens of business development work that i do building stacking slabs and the process that i run-in order to make sure i maximize my chances at sponsorships brands those sorts of things if you care about where the is going or the people building it i think hobby jobs is where i'm putting in that work so there is a link to the substack would love for you to subscribe having a lot of fun building over there today's episode we're gonna be talking about what i've learned from twelve people building in the hobby that i think every collector should understand i am sourcing this these insights from previous episodes that i've had this year on passionate profession shout out ebay for supporting that program it is one of my favorite moments of the week when i get to sit down with someone building a business in this space and try to understand why why did you leave your job safe job with a salary to build something and i think there's so much that we can learn from individuals entrepreneurs who are all in on this space i know i have gained a ton of insight i've gained a ton of motivation from just weekly connection points with entrepreneurs in this space and hopefully you're listening to passionate profession you're enjoying those insights you're starting to understand the people behind the operations in this space i continue to try to source new individuals for that show and because i'm going a hundred miles an hour creating content nonstop i figured in this episode let's take a step step back and let's examine let's examine the twelve episodes of passionate profession that are currently in the can and after i examined it i tried to pull some themes together and that's what we're doing here i'm sharing with you so after sitting down with breakers shop owners consignment operators collection buyers people building real businesses in this hobby i i realized something and this was a moment that i had here in twenty twenty six thinking about you the audience member a collector can listen to these stories and think cool good for them or a collector can listen and realize their stories are basically a road map for how you should navigate the hobby because there's a truth here the hobby's unregulated it's moving really fast the market is really loud the question should never be what card should i buy i think the real question is how do i make better decisions inside an ecosystem where trust incentives and information aren't evenly distributed so in this episode i'm gonna break down five patterns i keep hearing across these twelve conversations and i'm going to translate each of these patterns into collector decisions what to do what to watch for and how to protect your upside without losing fund the last thing we need right now in this hobby when it's thriving it's growing infrastructure is being built their record high sales is for the bottom to fall off and people leave the crazy thing about this is we just experienced this in twenty twenty one and it's funny through my examine examination and observations and i will be completely transparent about this i over obsess on this i am very very interested in human behavior i'm very interested in collector behavior collector psychology there has been so many people that have left in twenty twenty one when the dust settled or post twenty twenty one when the dust settled and the the market started to go back down and we're starting to see these individuals reappear again they're boomeranging back into the hobby because it's exciting there's opportunities it's on mainstream television and that's okay i'm okay with that you leave you come back what i don't want to see is when there are any interruptions in this space people leave and more people leave and they don't come back we need people here we need excited people we need people collecting cards we need people building businesses we need people selling cards we need the whole ecosystem at play in order to continue to grow in order to continue to thrive and i i've said this across stacking slabs content we are in a way better position from an infrastructure perspective in twenty twenty six than we were post twenty twenty one there are more companies more smart people working in the hobby more technology it's getting more organized now we aren't even close to being what we should be i believe from an infrastructure perspective with a market ripping so quickly and that's where i see opportunities and part of the reason why i'm starting hobby jobs but let's just get into it i've got a lot to say there's some interesting insights that i pulled from these twelve conversations the first one is trust isn't branding but trust is the product i don't care how good the card is how pretty the photo looks if you can't trust the person or the process on the other side you're not collecting you're gambling and obviously gambling has been such a topic of conversation in the litigation against whatnot and gambling will always be a part of this hobby ripping packs but can we over index too much on gambling i think so and i think across the conversations that i've had there's been some moments that have nailed it in my conversation this year with michael osaki baseball in the attic psa's lead appraiser he said it plainly there are bad actors scammers and connors that are trying to make a quick buck in our world that's not paranoia michael has been building his business for several decades he is a og hobby entrepreneur and what's interesting about him is he's not an og hobby entrepreneur setting up at shows selling cards like he has been here assessing appraising dealing with people dealing with situations for a long time so that's why i love having michael on because he's got so much historical knowledge when it comes to the market business and he shared that as an operating reality so as a collector i think our job is not to assume protection exists protection is beginning to pop up across many different marketplaces but it's still not fully baked out across the entire industry so that puts the job on us as the collector to choose environments and operators that behave like trust is mission critical i've talked a lot about trust being the most important asset in the hobby regardless of cards you have to build and develop trust as a collector to a another collector as a business to a potential buyer and i just obsess over it and i think trust is a very important topic this was followed up by drew hester of greg morris cards when he explained what trust looks like when something goes wrong and he said as long as we're transparent we'll make it right and i think that's the difference between a seller you buy from once and a seller you buy from ten years so many people in this industry and in this space are short term thinkers transactional mindset they're trying to get that dollar and make that buck right then when you take a step back and start to think about the people you continue to do deals with businesses you continue to use chances are they are playing the long game and you appreciate that because their mindset is built on building and developing trust and building this long term relationship with you as a buyer or as a customer the last example here would be from mike at m c sports card where he was framing up trust not as a vibe but as service infrastructure he said top tier service communication every step of the way we track everything you never get left with a lot of questions and isn't that right i think i when i submit my cards when i list my cards when i sell my cards i don't want to be left with a lot of questions i don't have time for that i am putting cards in a box and sending them away and i just want the stuff to work out i think there is a collector test here when money and cards are moving do they remove uncertainty or increase it if they're increasing it then there's likely a problem with the person you are working with and the thing is now and i mentioned this on a previous episode there are new businesses across the hobby whether it's in consignment whether it's in technology whether it's in grading you name it new companies are popping up left and right and so if someone is leaving you with so many questions then the chances are we'll just go move on to someone else so my recommendation here is to buy from systems not stories i think a trustworthy operator can explain how their process works what happens when a shipment is late what happens if a card is misdescribed and how you track these outcomes i think next it's treat transparency like a feature you're paying for if someone is allergic to questions it's very evident that you have your answer and then finally watch how problems get handled every operator makes mistakes i've made so many mistakes in this hobby when i make a mistake i try to own it and not deflect it and the more ownership that we see from individuals we're working with i think that's when trust gets built and developed alright the next observation from these twelve conversations that i picked up on is long term thinking beats reactive collecting if you want fewer regrets in this hobby you have to stop making decisions like you're being chased the people building businesses aren't reacting minute to minute they're planning think about the conversation with sharon black jaded wolf she explained how she operates in an evolving market i plan three to six month ahead i'm already planning for the national you can't just have all base cards you've gotta have certain cards that are meant for a variety of people i think that is opposite of how most collectors behave most collectors build a collection that looks something like i saw it i wanted i bought it and maybe most collectors is is too aggressive but it's just i see this a lot i think what sharon was telling us is that if you want to avoid being stuck you plan for where liquidity will be not where the hype is the next insight is from josh at pc sports cards and he gave a collector relevant truth about auctions he said auction is whatever one bid is above the second highest bidder it's not really what one person's willing to pay for that card and that sounds simple but i thought was very insightful and it illuminated a lot of stuff i think collectors quote comps like they're the truth but operators understand a comp is a snapshot of a specific moment audience and bidding dynamic then we had kurt and aaron from bbc emporium where kurt described how he changed how he sourced typically you're going to be paying close to full retail and that pushed him to buy closer to the source so his observations led him to completely change his buying strategy and i think that's a collector lesson hidden in an operator strategy if you only shop where everyone shops you pay what everyone pays and i think that's very savvy of kurt to realize that and i think i have observed individual collectors who are landing the best cards are typically not just buying from one place but they're uncovering collections and finding those people and going to those people to land those cards so my reaction to this all is separate collecting from reacting if you buy everything in your feed your collection will feel like your feed and we don't want that we get that sentiment at shows all the time people just walk by showcases because it all the showcases feel the same you don't want your your collection or your showcase to feel the same as everyone else no one there's too many other options i think the next one is treat selling strategy as a part of a buying strategy before you ask if i needed to move this in thirty days how would i do it the answer is i don't know then you probably need to slow down and next it's build sourcing advantage slowly what is that advantage to you is it proximity to a individual who gets a lot of cards is it relationships you've developed is it your willingness to be able to get on a plane and go somewhere i think this might mean relationships with a shop you trust too or consignment partner or buying smarter lots instead of isolated singles at peak i think this section was really interesting me to me to think about and to think about the crossover between how business operators think and how that can translate back to how we operate as collectors the next theme is scaling is people process and resilience not talent a lot of collectors think the secret to building in this hobby is knowledge and knowledge matters but it's not the bottleneck the bottleneck is can you operate under pressure make decisions and build something repeatable there are moments through the conversations that stood out to me that illuminate this the most recent episode of passionate profession was with michael and mikaela from rated rips really enjoyed talking with the husband and wife duo behind rated rips on how they work together how this came to be and how they think about business and one of the big takeaways when i hung up with them was immediately i i thought this is how a sophisticated business operation thinks in terms of system process technology and people and during that conversation it was said some of them are really hard conversations but they're always moving us forward and i think that's what scaling sounds like it's not motivational it's operational hard conversations about money roles standards hiring what good looks like that's how you don't break relationships while building a business anthony from top notch sports club described talking about doing business through mail payments back when it started and it was a reminder that like we've graduated in this space and that wasn't glamorous but it's grit right you wanna grind you wanna make it happen and the lesson here is most of the businesses you respect now started with very unsexy logistics and they just stacked and built systems over time then you have matt from nine four one sports cards explained i'm very risk oriented i will take risks through ups and downs and when he said that that moment stood out to me because i think you have to have a little bit of a screw loose in your head you've got to be able to take on some risk because of the uncertainty of this industry and i think scaling in this hobby isn't for people who need certainty it's for people who can take hits learn fast and stay in motion so from a collector perspective i think even if you never want to be an operator this still matters when you're evaluating an operator listen for their process emotional stability and if everything sounds chaotic it probably is and i think that's really important i assess every person every business i interact with and i won't do business for someone who feels like they might not show up or has shitty communication having good communication is a requirement for me as a business owner and operator and a collector to do business with you the next insight is if you're tempted to go professional start by defining roles and rules if you can't clearly explain this is the service this is the margin this is the workflow you're not building you're just staying busy next be honest about your risk tolerance there's nothing wrong with being a collector first but don't accidentally build a hobby experience that stresses you out i think about this a lot and i'm continuing to evolve my risk tolerance both on the business and collector side and i think the biggest thing is just being mindful that risk is in play if you are aware of the risk and you are able to evolve based on where you're at in that moment that is a really good thing alright we have two more themes here next the hobby is building infrastructure plus entertainment and incentives are shifting and this is a big one because collectors often think they're just buying sports cards but operators are building distribution attention and entertainment that changes what gets promoted what gets liquid and what gets normalized examples of that dave from golden he said now it's entertainment people are tuning in all over the world just to watch people open cards no one probably can speak to entertainment better than dave maybe can with their own show on netflix but i think this was a very interesting insight and something that i continue to think about like if you're a collector consuming hobby content you really need to understand what that means there's educational content and then there's make you want to buy right now content the hobby can be both fun and manipulative depending on the incentives we had tommy lasorda from lasorda's card house and he said was referencing his breaker he said he's our brand face everything starts with him to me that was a signal of professionalism breaking isn't just opening boxes it's production personalities tools audience building and i've been hearing this conversation around entertainment and breaking a lot recently and i think obviously there's a lot going on in the breaking side and i'm interested to see just how it continues to evolve but i don't know if i'm ever buying into a break i'm not expecting anything and more or less i'm looking for community or entertainment the next example is from good friend ryan bannister at rbi cruise seven he said when he was trying to build talking about building rbi cruise seven he said make it let's make it a destination shop branding our name as a national name and i've always viewed rbi cruise seven as an interesting use case and they're not the only ones but they are a local hobby shop that's build a national brand and reputation and i think that's infrastructure a place people visit a brand people trust a staff that can run without the owner doing every task so do what you do with this i think that to me is really important and i think the more i'm observing business owners and operators the more i'm trying to evaluate are they just trying to make money right there in their local communities or are they trying to add value i think we can look at something like breaking and say try to separate entertainment value from card value just because something is exciting on stream doesn't necessarily make it a good purchase i think also you can choose where you spend your attention the same way you choose where you spend your money attention feeds incentive incentive shapes the hobby and then i think support operators building real infrastructure if you care about the hobby staying healthy reward the people building repeatable service fair dealing and community not just value value volume excuse me and hype alright the last insight that i picked up on from these twelve conversations is the operator collector gap is where most costly mistakes happen this might be the most important pattern of all operators think in time cost risk workflows experience customer experience collectors think in comps wins impulse and sometimes ego there were some moments through these twelve conversations that i picked up on that validate this i think back to bbc emporium aaron gets into the economics of throughput he said one minute of time consumed is about thirty three that to me is very very interesting and at roughly twenty dollars an hour that's about thirty three cents a minute and if you're trying to sell a dollar time can bury you i think the collector takeaway here is when an operator charges a fee moves fast and refuses a certain type of submission it's often not greed it's math back to ryan he said try to keep your finances straight i got into bad credit card debt in college because i was ripping cards and not thinking about the hobby in the right way that's not a business lesson from ryan i think i took it as a life lesson and then back to matt with nine four one sports cards he said something that explains why some operators win even through tough markets and he said people don't care until they know how much you care collectors underestimate this i think a strong relationship beats a slightly better price when things get weird when a package gets delayed when a card has an issue when the market turns when you need advice when you need liquidity here's the collector playbook coming out of this for me i think number one stop financing your hobby with debt if ripping puts you in on credit card debt you're not investing you're borrowing against dopamine next understand the business incentives of who you're dealing with if you're sending cards to consignors ask how they get paid what they prioritize what they optimize for and three build relationships on purpose not in a fake way in a practical way find two or three operators you trust and concentrate your activity where you're treated well so twelve conversations big conversations fun conversations if you haven't listened go back and check those out on passionate profession but the biggest takeaway from all of this is the hobby isn't just about cards it's about people systems incentives and risk and collectors who understand how operators think win more regret less and enjoy the hobby longer if you remember nothing else from this remember this trust is built through process long term thinking beats reacting scaling is people and systems entertainment changes incentives and the operator and collector gap is where most mistakes happen challenge for the week pick one place you buy from consign through or participate with and ask the question do they reduce uncertainty or create it then do three simple things set a hobby budget you can keep without stress choose one operator relationship to deepen with it could be a shop consignor breaker whatever fits you and before your next purchase write down your exit plan in one sentence and maybe there isn't an exit plan maybe there's a that's a card you wanna keep and that's fine too that's even better but the the goal here is to try to understand who you're currently working with and who has a system we should be supporting and working with people who have systems systems help us as collectors feel good about what we're doing and i think that's really important again make sure you're checking out hobbyjobs link is in the show notes would love to get that list growing meeting hobby professionals has been a lot of fun thank you so much for supporting stackingslabs your hobby content alternative more content coming your way take care happy collecting talk to you soon