what is up everybody welcome back to another episode of stacking slabs this is your hobby content alternative hopefully you are doing well i am feeling a lot of energy right now this conversation is being recorded well in advance of its release date i wanted to do a flagship episode while i was here in rosemont illinois at the national in my hotel room here at the loews hotel what a fun time i'm one day into it as i'm recording this and man i have so much energy so many great conversations and i was getting ready to go to bed last night i had some wnba on i was chilling and i just kept thinking about the conversations that i had in one day and how powerful those chats were and i thought about it for a second and when i woke up this morning i knew i wanted to do an an episode on the power of hobby conversations and so that's what we're gonna do today we're only one day into this show and i keep thinking about the same thing it's not a card it's not a sale it's not a booth it's not one of the items which i saw many awesome ones and showcases it's a conversations before we get into today's conversation i gotta shout out inferno red technology the engineering team behind some of the biggest names in sports and collectibles like dc sports eighty seven com c collectors upper deck and ebay from ai powered solutions for startups to full stack platforms for industry leaders their team can tackle your toughest technology challenge they build awesome software for the hobby for leagues and fans and for everyone in between see what they can build for you at inferno red dot com so the first twenty four hours of talking with collectors dealers business owners content creators listeners friends and people i had never met before there was a lot of conversations it gives me a lot of energy and you know some of the conversations were about cards some were about the market some were about what people are buying and why some were about stacking slap people told me what is connected with them they told me what they want more of they share parts of their collecting lives that would never fit inside an instagram comment though there were also conversations that had nothing to do with a purchase no deal no content plan no ask two people standing across from each other because the hobby gave them a reason to start talking when i walked out of day one i had a lot more energy than when i walked in which is kinda wild it was a travel day travel days are grueling i was up early still being a dad trekking up to rosemont illinois doing the whole rigamar role of checking in the hotel getting situated all these things spending an entire day talking to people i think this is worth examining the national is exhausting you're on your feet you're moving through crowds your schedule changes every ten minutes you forget to eat maybe you forget to go to the bathroom you lose track of time yet i felt charged up the cards played a role in that they always will we're we're here for the cards the conversations i think played a bigger role so today i wanna talk about the power of conversations in the hobby why does a good conversation stay with us why can one exchange change how we see a card a person and perhaps our own collection why do in person conversations affect the way we feel as collectors and in a hobby and media system built around clips swipes alerts fast reactions what do we lose when we stop giving conversations time i'm not here to attack short form content i make it it gets attention it can introduce a collector to a card a person or an idea that matters but attention and connection aren't the same thing short form content can start attention conversations turn that attention into context trust and belonging that is the argument i want to make today so let's start with information maybe the thing outside of relationships and trust i value the most in this space collectors talk about information all the time we want pop reports sales history checklists we want to know where a card came from how often it surfaces and who else cares about it that information matters it'll always matter but some of the most useful information in the hobby does not sit in a database it lives in people it lives in the collector who has followed one player for twenty years it lives in the dealer who has watched demand change across five national conventions it lives in the person who knows why a card is hard to find even though the serial number does not look scarce it lives in the collector who made a bad purchase and understands the warning signs now it lives in the person who sold too soon it lives in the person who held too long it lives in the collector who can explain why one version matters more than another version that looks the same to everyone else a sales database can tell you what happened a conversation can help you understand why it happened that does not mean every ex ex explanation is right people carry bias they defend what they own they repeat stories that were never checked they confuse confidence with knowledge conversation is not a replacement for evidence it gives you context questions and ideas that you can test against evidence and i think that distinction matters the right collector conversation does not tell you what to think it helps you see what you are not thinking about that happened to me throughout my first day at the national someone would make one comment about a card category a piece of content or part of the business that comment would lead to a question the question would open up another part of the conversation and then ten minutes later i was thinking about the hobby in a way i wasn't thinking about it before that is a return on time and no purchase was required there's another distinction i wanna make a conversation is not the same thing as networking the national is full of people trying to meet people that is part of the event business gets done partnerships begin here deals move forward i'm building a media business so i arrive with meetings recordings goals and people i wanna see there's nothing wrong with intention the problem is when every interaction becomes an extraction what can this person do for me what information can i get what introduction can they make can this conversation become content can this relationship become revenue people can feel that and i feel it very very much i'm probably on the higher end of obsessive compulsive when it means when it gets into reading people and what they want from me during a conversation i can tell within the first ten seconds if there's gonna be reciprocity or not and i think this exchange becomes a task you stop listening to understand and start listening for an opening the conversation that gave me the most energy during the first day didn't feel like that they had no forced outcome we were present there was no call to action at the end of it we followed the subject where it went sometimes it was the value was a piece of information sometimes it was feedback sometimes it was learning what another cares about sometimes it was laughing about part of the hobby that only another collector would understand nothing needed to happen next for that time to count that's the important part because relationship driven does not mean strategically strategically useful it means relationship comes before the use the strongest business relationships i have in this hobby often started with repeated conversation that had no proposal attached we learned how each other thought we saw whether words matched actions we found areas where our interest lined up trust grew from the pattern then an opportunity made sense the same principle applies between collectors if you approach every person as a source of deals access or information you reduce relationship to a function if you approach with curiosity you leave a you leave room for the person to surprise you that does not mean every conversation becomes a relationship it means you do not decide the value of the conversation before it begins the best exchange at a card show might help you buy a card it might help you avoid one it might lead to a friendship it might last three minutes and never happen again the outcome does not determine whether it mattered there's a reason a place like the national can produce so many of these moments you're not only talking with five people you know best you're running into people you know a little you are meeting friends of friends you are talking with someone who listens to a podcast but never sent you a message you are standing next to a collector who works in the category you've never studied sociologist mark granovetter wrote about the strength of weak ties more than fifty years ago his point was that people outside our closest circle often connect us to information and opportunities that do not exist inside our usual group our closest relationships matter they know us they support us but close circles often share much of the same information weak ties reach into other circles this is what happens at the national you cross paths with people who operate in different parts of the hobby vintage modern wrestling football basketball set collecting all the things collectors who have no business interest in the hobby at all every one of those people carry a different viewpoint that does not mean you absorb every opinion it means you gain access to a wider set of inputs psychologists jillian sandstorm and elizabeth dunn found that interactions with acquaintances can affect well-being too in one of their studies students reported more happiness and greater sense of belonging on days where they interacted with more classmates than usual that is one reason the small conversations at this show count not every hobby relationship needs to become a close friend to have value the two minute exchange in an aisle matters the person who stops you after recording to say they like your stuff that matters the collector who shows you one card and tells you why it matters can change the direction of your day we tend to measure relationships by depth and and depth matters breath matters too a room full of people who share in your interest can remind you that your collecting life is part of something beyond your own collection that brings me to the energy i felt after day one why did i feel more energized after spending an entire day talking there are a few ways to understand it relateness definitely is a part of it people need to feel connected to other people and at the national you do not need to explain why a piece of cardboard can carry meaning you don't need to defend why you remember the exact card you pulled when you were twelve you don't need an an explanation about why you're seeking a specific copy of a card the person across from you already understands the starting point and that saves the effort you can begin further into the conversation you can get the story the decision the regret second piece is what researchers call shared reality shared reality is the feeling that another person sees or understands something about the world in a way that connects with your own view researchers maya rosniak milan and tori higgins describe conversation as one of the ways people make sense of the world together that phrase fits the hobby collectors are always trying to make sense of things together why does this card matter why is this player ignored why did the market respond this way when is it time to sell these are not questions with one clean answer we form our answers by studying collecting making mistakes and talking with other people sometimes the value of the conversation is agreement someone put words around the feeling you have carried but never explained you think yes that is it other times the value is disagreement someone sees the same card and reaches a different conclusion now you have to examine your own reasoning because outcomes are useful agreement can create disagreement can create clarity the third reason for energy is group experience researchers use the term perceived emotional synchrony to describe what happens when people gather focus on something together and feel part of a shared experience studies of group gatherings have connected the experience with stronger social identification positive emotion and well-being i'm not claiming that walking through the national is the same as every kind of gathering studied in a psychology lab the framework still helps explain the feeling thousands of people arrive with the intention focused on the hobby people point they react they tell stories they recognize cards they introduce friends they celebrate a pickup with someone they just met for a few days collecting is not something you do alone at a desk or on a phone it becomes something you experience with other people in the same place that is where some of the energy comes from it is not only excitement over inventory it is the feeling of participation now we need to deal with the other side of this most of the hobby conversations do not happen at the national most of the content reaches us through a screen the screen is not the problem stacking slabs would not exist at its current scale without digital media collectors have formed relationships podcasts instagram youtube group chats online communities it goes on and on and on i've met people this week because they first heard a conversation online the online exchange led to an in person one that's a win the problem begins when we mistake exposure for understanding you watch fifty clips and still leave with no context you can see a hundred cards and remember none of them you can collect opinions all day without examining one of them you can feel active while doing nothing beyond moving your thumb researchers katie tam and michael ishlitz studied what they called digital switching across seven experiments with one thousand two hundred and twenty three participants people believed switching between videos would reduce boredom it did the opposite switching increased boredom and reduced satisfaction attention and meaning the point is not that every short video is bad the point is that constant switching can keep us from staying with an idea long enough for it to mean something that is a problem in a hobby be in the hobby because many of the questions that matter require context why does a collector care about a card you need the story why did someone change their collecting direction you need to understand what came before it why did a dealer make a decision that looks wrong from the outside you need to understand the conditions around the decision why did a sale reset a category you need more than the final price a clip gives you the answer a conversation can show you how someone reached it that process is where much of the value sits there is research that supports the value of dialogue as the learning format in studies comparing tutorial dialogue videos with lecture style videos covering the same concepts college students learn more from the dialogue format the researchers pointed to features that monologues often lack questions feedback wrong answers corrections moments when one person has to adjust to the understanding of another that is what a good podcast conversation can do my guest does not arrive as a quote machine they arrive with a way of thinking my job is to ask enough questions to reveal it why what happened next when did you change your mind what did you miss long form conversations give you an idea give your idea enough time to be challenged it lets a guest qualify statements it lets uncertainty remain in the answer it lets the listener hear a person think that matters in a hobby where certainty gets more attention than honesty i wanna be fair about short form content the research on social media and well-being is mixed i think context matters i think age matters the type of online space matters that should stop us from making a lazy can't claim that scrolling is bad and conversation is good life isn't that clean a thirty second clip can teach you something a short post can lead a collector to another a photo can make your search for a card that you never knew existed a group chat can provide support in a moment you need it short form content has a role its best role is not to replace the conversation it is to create a reason for the conversation to begin that is how i think about the stacking slabs content system the clip earns attention the episode provides context the conversation builds trust the next conversation builds the relationship mistake is building the entire hobby media diet out of the first step if every piece of content asks for five seconds of attention we train ourselves to leap before the meaning arrives arrives we become good at recognizing we become worse at understanding we know which cards are hot we do not know why they matter you know the opinion you do not know the experience behind it you know the sale we don't know the collector that is that is enough for me it's not enough for stacking slaps let's bring it back to collecting what can an in person conversation do in your mind's hobby the online hobby presents every card as if it's a decision the decision needs to happen now the listing is ending the break is starting the release is live the comp is changed then you talk with someone who has collected the same player for fifteen years they let you know how many times a card has appeared they let you they tell you about the copy they passed on the time horizon changes you remember that a collection is built across years not refreshes the conversation can improve your questions collectors often arrive with buying questions is the price right should i get this card do you think it will go up a good conversation can move you towards better questions why do you want this card what role does it play in my collection would i still want it if no one saw a pickup post those questions protect you from the purchase that creates activity but add no meaning next conversations can give you conviction conviction does not come from hearing people agree with you it comes from understanding your own reasoning after it it's become tested you show a card to someone they ask why that version you explain the set the image the history all of the context behind the card by the end of the answer you understand your own choice better the conversation helped you hear the thinking conversations can change your direction this is one of the best parts of a show like the national you arrive looking for one thing then a collector shows you another path you learn about a set you hear a story you see connection you admit you do not need to buy anything that day the change happen happens down the road the conversation planted that idea conversations can make the hobby feel human again cards moving cards move through systems listings vaults grading queues auctions shipping price charts it is easy to forget that people sit on the other side of those systems the person selling might be funding a business the person might be rebuilding a collection they've lost they might not sell they the person who might who will not sell might have received the card from someone important to them the person asking a basic question might be entering the hobby for the first time conversations restores the person behind the card that does not mean you ignore the price it means the price is not the only information in front of you this is why long form conversation remains the foundation for stacking slabs it is not the fastest content to make it is not the easiest content to distribute it asks more of me it asks more of my guests it asks more from you the listener you are giving us time i never take that for granted if you listen to one of my conversations i want you to leave with something useful an idea you can apply a question you can ask a collecting approach you can examine a person you can better understand i do i do not want to fill time i want to respect it that is why feedback at the national means so much to me download numbers tell me someone pressed play a completion number can tell me someone stayed a clip view tells me someone i earned someone's attention but when a listener stands in front of you and explains what an episode changed for them i receive information a a dashboard can't provide they tell me where the value reached them they tell me where the question stayed with them they tell me which conversation made the reconsider a purchase appreciate a card contact another collector or return to part of the hobby they had ignored the feedback improves the work it also strengthens the relationship between the network and the people it serves stacking slabs is not built for an abstract audience it is built for collectors with names collections histories questions and limits in person conversations make the impossible that impossible to forget conversations have power power means judgment the hobby also contains rumors status updates private incentives and group think a conversation can help you see more it can pull you towards someone else's agenda so listen with curiosity not surrender ask where the information came from separate firsthand experience from something repeated notice whether the person benefits from your belief compare that claim with public data when public data exists talk with people outside of one circle give more weight to the collector who can explain uncertainty than the person who performs certainty the goal is not to collect the most opinions the goal is to improve the quality of your thinking good conversation should make you more independent not more dependent that's the standard you do not need to attend the national to use any of this you can change the quality of your hobby experience by changing the way you talk to people start with better questions ask better questions instead of asking what are you buying ask what changed the way you collect this year i think questions are everything i'm a curious person i built this business on the back of questions not only asking others questions but asking myself the same question do not spend the entire time waiting for your turn to talk ask the next question based on what the person person said that makes a great conversation if they mention a mistake ask them what it taught if they mention a change of direction ask what caused the change the value is often one question past the final answer bring someone into the exchange too share the information without keeping a score make the introduction send the checklist point someone towards the collector who knows the category follow-up after the show conversation continues after there's no immediate transaction in front of either person that is what makes the hobby stronger not more not only more connected more informed more patient more trusting more human when i look back on this national i know i'll remember cards there will be cards i wanted cards i've never seen cards that change hands the cards that change the way i think about my own collection but after the first twenty four hours i'm convinced that the most valuable thing i will take home is not a card it is what people shared with me the feedback the questions the ideas the relationships that move forward because we had time in the same place it is the energy that comes from being around people who care about the same things we live in a hobby that can turn every card into content every sale into reaction every opinion into clip every quiet moment into another chance to scroll that system isn't going away i'm part of it but i do not wanna confuse more content with more connection i do not wanna confuse faster information with better understanding i don't wanna confuse attention with trust the conversation still matters the time still matters listening still matters the questions after the show matter the person across from you still matters if you're at the national or another big show coming up then make time for that if you weren't at the show call a collector you trust send a message to someone whose collection made you think ask a better question in a group chat listen to a full conversation give one idea more than ten seconds your next step as a collector might not begin with a card it might begin with someone asking you why you care about it and giving you enough time to answer i love conversations i've built my career on the back of conversations i just think conversations are cool and we should think more about it appreciate you tuning tuning in to stacklinks labs your hobby content alternative if you enjoyed this show make sure you tell a damn friend take care happy building happy collecting talk to you soon