Alright. We are back. Another episode of Passionate Profession. We will be continuing the conversation around trust, and trust is the operating system for building a hobby business. Excited to reconnect with today's guest.

I'm joined by Sharon Black Jaded Wolf. We talked last year and thought this is a great time to bring Sharon back on to not only talk about trust, talk about current market, what's happening, what's maybe real, maybe what's not real, and a whole lot more. But, Sharon, without further ado, how are you? Welcome back. Good.

Enjoying the winter. Are you being are you being real or not? So my first flash was coming back from the Hawaii pop con show, and I was literally in shortcoming at the airport. And I went back in airport and put on pants because it was freezing. It was like feel was like negative.

So yep. I'm being sarcastic, but, you know, it's real. We got 18 inches, like, two weeks ago. So Well, that's that's incredible. I know a lot of us are digging out, and I I need to learn from your ways.

I need an excuse to try to find do a business trip to Hawaii. It sounds like you've really got this figured it out figured out by the I'm going to LA next week. So That's smart operating. So we're gonna talk about trust, but I wanna get into kind of the market. And we were having a chat before we hit record, and you made mention that, like, this market, although it's, you know, a bull market, it doesn't look like last year's, market, and you kinda coined it as an evolving market.

I would love for you to maybe share your perspective on kind of what you mean there. Like, what are you seeing down in the trenches? Like, what's been good? Maybe what's not been so good? Like, let's just jump off there.

So it started you know, we'll we'll put it in one calendar year last year, January to now. You know? The market last year was all about repack. You know? Anything sub thousand was so liquid.

You know? So that's a bullish market for that. Everybody is making repack. You know? And, you know, and and it's slowly evolving because now everybody turned their business literally into just selling to repackers.

You know? And then middle of the year, repacker kinda stopped. You know? They've been more picky because now everybody knows that, oh, you know, a PSA 10 base Wemby, there's only so much of those that you could kinda spoon feed to your clientele. So now, you know, they're building higher end repack.

You know? Those digital packs are starting to move at the middle of last year. You know? So people are buying those. So now it went up to, like, maybe $2,000.

So and then we also hear, like, some of the record breaking cards, basically. You know? So it's it's a very bullish market. But if you're just stagnant and doing catering to one thing, it's kinda scary. Because now if you're holding a lot of p s a 10, you know, base stuff or maybe even silver, they're hard to move because competitions are out there.

So if you're if you're doing this, we have to plan six months. I plan three to six months ahead. You know? I'm already planning for nationals and what's gonna sell at that time. So basically, you you can't just have all base because nationals so saturated.

You everything the same, you can't sell. So you gotta have some bigger pieces, you gotta have some middle end pieces, you know, because everything actually sells. That's why to me it's bullish. But it's but the main bullish this year coming at the end of the year is the higher end market. You know, last year, it's like so hard to sell anything upward of 20,000 unless you're selling it at Golden, you know, at a platform.

In the show, it's not easy to move them. But at the end of this year, it's it's kinda easy to sell easier. I'm not saying easy, but, you know, easier to sell like 10 to $30,000 cards in a show, which is doesn't happen often. And and that's a mix of customer, you know, that before they can't afford a great card, you know, for 20,000. Now they could buy four if you know, there are people that have that pocket.

Instead of buying one card for a 100,000, you could buy four. You know? So it it's a fun market because that's actually my favorite area, you know, 10 to 20. But it's also, you know, you you gotta also bet smart and, you know, buy smart. Do your research and you know?

But that's to me, that's bullish because that means every aspect of it is movable and it's liquid. So there's a lot there that I wanna maybe dig into first. The two topics, I think, number one are repacks and number two are comps. Let's start with repacks. I think Mhmm.

There's been a lot said. And I remember when I was starting this specific show, and it seemed like I was unaware of the impact of repacks. But every conversation I was having, repacks were getting brought up. So I was trying to dig in, and then by the end of the year, there was, like, this proliferation of repacks. And I had a better understanding of its influence on just the hobby as a whole.

Maybe right now, I think a lot of collectors are trying to figure out, like, prices of cards, like, what is actually being impacted by the repack culture, what is not. Like, can you dig in a little bit on just repacks and just in the trenches? Like, what are you seeing now based based on, like, what has been happening with repacks? And, like, how does that impact the collector who's listening to this show? Repack has a big impact in the hobby.

People don't get it. It's like first, the comps. You know? I know it's tied into what we're leading into the next topic, but comps because they're paying almost such a high percentage of comp. So some of them are paying $90.95, a 100, and some of those kaboons are, like, they're even paying, like, one ten.

You know, this is early last year. Obviously, it slowed down a little, you know, because now they know it becomes, like, before the demand is there unless people are grading them and but now everybody's catering just wanna build their collection for repack. And now you go to a Dallas show, it's like everybody's ready for their repack. And now repack will basically skip some people because, you know, they have to they're they're choosing now who to buy from that may be a little cheaper than this person. You know?

So now and and if you're getting ready for to sell to those people, basically, you you might not come home selling a 100% before you're selling every card that you prepped. You know? So it basically it's it's a little tougher, but so it affects comps and repack are paying that person. So that means I, as a dealer, sports car dealers, a reseller, can pay and compete with them. That's the reason why last year, I totally took like maybe, 50% of my shows where I took a step back.

Because I I was a little stressed too, you know, shows are like, I do shows if I could buy. I can't do a show just to sell, cause I could sell without doing a show. You know? So basically but they at the end of the year, Repack took a step back. Now they have buyers instead of the Repack company actually goes there and buy.

And because of that, it opens up oh, I could go set up on shows again and possibly buy. So it's always evolving. You gotta test it out. You gotta first, I just went to shows and looked and not even set up. And now I'm going back to, you know, I took a one year break from Burbank, know, all the West Coast show.

Now I'm setting up again, the last two shows, you know, because you could pick up stuff again. And you know, being smart, there's also stuff that you could buy that repack don't touch because they don't touch stuff that don't have comps. They just don't. And, you know, they don't like to gamble like that. So to me, I love gambling like that because to me, if you're equipped and you're smart and you know what you're doing, you did your research, you should be able to know how to buy, basically.

So that's my goal. I mean, talking to you is kinda spreading some knowledge, you know, so people, you know, now you could go buy Drake Mc you know, I mean, obviously, I'm not saying I'm a 100% right because obviously I was wrong with Jaden. And it's you know, there's a lot of factor in it, Jaden Daniels. So you basically lost with, you know, him getting injured. The team was decimated.

So it's it's a lot of impact, but I also bought Drake. I didn't buy Bowen Knicks, you know, because he turns around turns the ball over too much. But knowing that, you know, Drake protects the ball and he plays for a market that's, you know, waiting for their next Tom Brady. You know? The fans are very eager.

So I bought a few of those and, you know, it pans out. It's locked sometimes. But, you know, you gotta give yourself credit too if you buy right. You know? I'm so interested by the way it sounds so simple, but to hear someone break it down when you're talking about repacks and what repackers like, they like to see the comps and the confidence the comps, but then you've got this other side where you've got collectors.

And for me, I'd I'd rather buy a card that doesn't have any comps and take that bet, which I don't know. I've never really thought about those two things working for or against each other. Maybe, like, the op like, to you, like, what what kind of opportunity does that say for collectors if that one dynamic is in place where repackers are just looking for comps? What does that say for, like, collectors who are trying to find good opportunities? Like, what do you see?

You this is like survival of the fittest. You know? So you you just gotta tool yourself because a lot of the repack buyers are they watch sports, but they don't they rely too much on the tools, basically, without doing their own you know, if if you if you're a basketball player and you're a good shooter already, you know, but you you don't need to do other things. But if you're you know your shot is weak, you know, you will work harder to to get that spot. You know?

And it's the same thing in this, you know, if you're a collector. You you gotta know and narrow down what you really want. You know? And do some research. You know that Drake May is Drake May really should be a third or 25% of Jaden's card?

No. So it gives you a room that maybe you could pay at 50%, you know, even though the comp is lower. Because if he does play well, you know it will get close to Jaden, basically. So, you know, it's like simple things that it sounds simple, but you gotta trust yourself on that because, you know and that's why it's also hard for me to delegate to my team to, like, buy. If I tell them buy Drake May, I'm scared because they might just use comp and just buy every Drake.

You know? So it it's, you know, it it's hard, but it's it's successful for me. It's I've been doing it for years, know. So you gotta give your team or or people that kids always ask me, who do I buy now, you know. I don't always tell them to buy the hottest guy, but I always I I also don't tell them to buy the worst guys, you know, because it's hard.

You claim it's hard to climb that mountain. You you buy guys that has a lot of upside, not just talent, team, scheduling. I study all those things. You know? So yeah.

So do your homework. The the research is such a an interesting topic, and I think the curious collectors who enjoy the research, who dig into the details, who find trends no one else is talking about, always seem to end up with the best cards or doing the best on their sales. I think you contrast that with this repack or culture who's so reliant on comps and digging into, like, last sales data, which only tell it's only one data point, but maybe it's positioned as the only data point. You've have are looking at this regularly, and I know we're seeing, like, even if you if you go into CardLadder and you see, like, whether it's ultra modern or maybe even Jordan stuff, we're seeing comps right now that are crazy. Like, especially if you dig into PopData and see how many PSA 10 copies there are.

Maybe, like, how are you looking at that? Like, what are you seeing? Are you seeing any things that cause you to question maybe current comps that are being documented right now? I it's a sensitive topic. Everybody knows I don't touch, you know, dramas in the hobby.

You know? But when it hits me and hits my clientele, I'm very protective of it. I I might not say it on my podcast, but, you know, I feel like something has to be said. So a customer of mine, you know, bought a card that the card is consistently at, like, 2 to 3,000. Like, consistently through through the last six months.

And then suddenly, there's a few comps for, like, $67,000. You know? So within, like, less than a month in sales. It's not like, oh, sudden jump. You know?

And this is not a prospect. It's a superstar. So my customer bought it and because somebody came to the table and said, oh, his last comp was 6,000. I'll sell it to you for 4,000. You know?

I'm like, oh, seems like a good deal. The kid said, you know, he traded some of his best card that he pulled, personal stuff to get this card, obviously. You know? And then, you know, later on, it's like he sells the card. Like, after a couple months, the card was relisted.

You know? And, obviously, it's backed down to, like, maybe three three thousand. You know? It's it's it's hard to explain. And then obviously, the father will come to me and is like, you know, how does this work?

Why is it you know, we're not even talking we thought we got it as such a great deal, you know. But it's you know, the market I'm not saying it's, you know, it's manipulated, but it's we we just gotta be more aware of the market. You know, if there's a odd price at one point, you know, let's not ignore it, but, you know, be just be aware or be more cautious, you know, when you buy buy into a card like that. And just study some data. You know?

And then you and now all the apps shows all different platforms. So you could kinda see the consistency. You know? EBay, you know, the card is going for this price. This is going for this price, and this platform is going for this price.

Is there any correlation? You know? Because sometimes a card that's bought here could be resold there at a higher price or a card they they switch it around now. It could be the same card getting resold. So we just gotta study the data and, you know, the card and don't just fall for comps, basically.

That's all I I tell my customer. You know? And, you know, I also try to play the other side and, you know, I don't wanna, like it's hard that the customer, the kid is so happy when he traded for it. It's kinda hard to or heartbreaking to for them to be upset, you know, and now take a step back and now you just kill the kid's, you know, happiness at some point. So, you know, I I mean, it's just those type of thing.

You know, that's just one story. I have so many customer that kinda, like, I have to answer it and why this happened. You know? Trying to give them the answer, but also the truth is not easy. But so, you know, so I told the customer, if you have a question on anything, you have my number.

Give me a call. I could try the reason why that is and if it should be a good buy or not. You know? And then in the end of the day, I will give them the data, but at the end of the day, I give it to them to make the decision. I'm not gonna I don't it's not my card.

You know? In the end of the day, you have to decide if it's worth it for you. So that's that's all I tell people. Comms are great. It's a baseline, but it's not the main indicative of the card's value.

That's all I tell people. A ton of good insight there. I think this is interesting from a perspective of, okay. So you are a central point for a lot of people, and you you're calling they're your customers. Right?

They're coming to you to get information, to kinda get your feedback. And I think you, as a business owner and as a brand, right, you're trying to do best for your customer, I would imagine, in every instance you possibly can. Well, we take this element of data and, these comps, and maybe all comps might not be exactly real based on a lot of different factors. Like, how do you think about your role in kind of this trust building process where, like, maybe one way you've build and develop trust over the years? Like, now you've got this other layer of, like, maybe uncertainty with comps.

Like, how do you think about, like, maintaining trust with the people who are coming to you while there's, like I don't wanna say chaos and be, like, hyperbolic, but it seems at times with a rising market, there might be chaos with comps. Like, how do you process and think about that? I put myself in their shoes. You know? That's the best way to do it.

It's like if it's something I won't do, I I won't tell my customer to do it. It's it's it's human nature to try to wanna sell something, but it's also I I wanna I wanna know these people. Most of my customer I've known for, like, twenty years, you know, fifteen years. I get invited to their birthday, their bar mitzvah, you know, barbecue. You know, it it's a relationship, and it's not it's something you you have to take care of, you know, you gotta see them in the eye when they ask you questions.

I wanna be able to respond to them any question that they ask, you know, as honestly as I could, as transparent as I could. So that's that's the only way. And for me, if I'm not investing on that, I will give you the data. If I'm not investing on this kid, you really like this person, this athlete, I will give you all the data and then you decide in the end. You know, I'm not gonna handhold you to to your decision, but I'm gonna give you the stats.

Why it could be a bad buy, why it could be a good buy. And then the end, you decide. So, you know, at the end, you know, you you gotta have some your your accountability yourself that you you did this. You know? Yeah.

And to me, I'm just all the apps and me are kinda the same thing. It's like a baseline for you to kinda get some data from. And then in the end, that's it. You you just you just gotta decide for yourself. But I I don't that's why I don't go to, like, even in my own platform to, oh, buy this, buy that.

You know? I would rather my customer comes to my table in the show and ask me, what's a good buy right now? My first question back is, who do you like? You know? Because at the end of the day, you gotta be able to watch this athlete, follow it, have fun following their career, and see their development.

You know? And then invest on that. That that's what I like the modern part of it. It's not just assets that you're, you know, vintage. I love Lou Gehrig, you know, but it's so easy to just go out and buy all Lou Gehrig.

You know? But for a modern athlete, you gotta enjoy watching them. I love watching the WNBA. I support the league. I I'm season ticket holder, and I buy those players.

And who do I invest in? It's like I tell my customer, oh, this is a good player. You know? But you should watch it to yourself, so why you should invest on that kid? So that's the same thing.

You mentioned, you know, you spend the time to go to the barbecue of your customers. Go to the bar mitzvah if you're invited. You know? Do these things. Right?

You're investing your time in your customer's thing. And I think that is a a special dynamic because I would imagine because you're playing the long game. Like, you're trying to continue to build and develop trust. I think the hobby gets a bad reputation at times because it feels a little transactional where we're just trying to make a quick buck now and move on to the next one. Like, as you think about, like, the time you spend in building trust with your customers, like, on the backside as a business owner, like, what are the sorts of things that that has given you in return?

First and foremost, I don't think of it as, oh, I invested time on it. It it's just a relationship. You know, any relationship my favorite part of the, the hobby is every time at the end of the show, I go hang out with, you know, some dealers, even some customers. You know? I I take them out if it's their birthday, you know, that type of thing.

It it it's more like a friendship. It's human nature. You can't force it. I had a kid before that's, he's successful in his own way now. But it's always been, Sharon, how do you, like, be nicer to no.

You cannot be nicer to people. People could read you. You it has to be innate, know. It has to be transparent because the eyes are on you all the time. You know, people don't wanna talk to you because they just wanna gain knowledge from you because you're also easy to talk to, you know.

So, you know, we can't see people and national oh, that's a walking money sign, you know. Then you know, you're judging people the wrong way in my opinion. So to me, it's not like, I had to invest ten hours to discuss no. I it's you cannot, you know, think of it that way. And I hire people in my team that way too.

You know? It has to be the same value as me. You know? Yeah. So it's it's not an investment on people.

It's more like it it just it has to be innate, basically. And if it goes further, and if they don't like you, it's okay too. You know? Maybe your business doesn't work out with doesn't align with that customer. So it's fine.

You know? But you build different ways how customer could see you in different relationship, basically. I always think about the, factor of someone who's doing what you're doing at the level you're doing with the different service lines and offerings, whether it's, you know, PSA submissions, whether it's consignment services. Like, I said, like, you are the central point, and you are kinda helping your customers navigate these other, factors and trying to make it easier, whether it's sell their cards, grade their cards. Sometimes in those circumstances, there are things that happen outside of your control because maybe it's the company grading company or maybe it's the platform where something has changed or maybe there's delays caused.

Like, I would imagine there's been many instances in your career where you've had to maybe try to eat put a customer's mind at ease because something is happening with a partner you're relying on for services? Like, how do you think about that regularly, making sure that, like, you're able to communicate clearly and you're able to maybe communicate on the behalf of a a service that you're offering that you might not be fully in control over? Number one thing to put your customer at peace is basically you take on the responsibility. Knowing that if if the grading company messed up, you will take responsibility. As my business, you know, my brand, I protect it.

If if the company loses a card, damages a card, you know, you face me. I will take care of it more than just you know? And I will handle the back end of it. I don't I I might not be able to, like, secure, like, oh, get the money they wanted from, let's say, PSA or another grading company, but I will take care of that customer, basically. It's a certain responsibility that I feel like stores and dealers and, you know, any service, if you're a subgroup, you know, you have to take on that responsibility.

If a customer, even if it's a $5 card or a $100,000 card, Once they hand it to you, it's your responsibility until you give it to p s a 10 p s I mean, PSA. And even if it's PSA's yes. I know. And even if it's in PSA's hand, you know, it's still your responsibility until you hand it back to them. So basically, taking responsibility and, you know, a lot of situation have arise with consignment, you know, with everything because a customer, you know, a shipping issue, you have to take on the issue to, you know.

So I would rather, like, take on all of it. It's on me. It's on my company. It's on my people to handle it with care, basically. You've, you've got a network and you've got many customers.

Are there is there a moment that happens as you've, like, evaluate the relationships you build with your customers where you realize that, okay. I have trust with this customer because they did x or y. Like, what is that moment for you where you're like, okay. I have this now. I can't screw this up because they they've they've put their trust in me.

Are there any of those specific moments you get in working with different customers where you realize you've built that trust? I treat everyone a little different because, you know, some people are so protective, and the trust is the hardest part. You know? Especially in the beginning when people it's like yesterday, you know, I was at this card store taking submission for this customer. He has a star jumbo card, you know, sealed.

And PSA don't do sealed. So I told him, you know, a PSA three just sold for 6,000, but a PSA seven sold for, like, 50,000. You know? It's a big card. So I told them, I'm being transparent.

I could bring it to Burbank next week and grade it for you, but you know? So to me, I'm taking on that responsibility. Some people won't wanna do that because what happened during trend you know, you take it, you know, something happened. So I also but I also gave them a very transparent answer telling them you could go to the nationals and hand it in yourself. It's you know, I don't need extra $50 and to take on that much responsibility.

You know? So sometime as a business, if I'm opening myself to such a liability, I I will tell them, you know, I could guide you and use my connection with PSA and help you drop it off yourself. You know? So so you could do that and then basically handhold them, but not you know, it's not just about the monetary. You are you profiting, you know, and stuff like that.

But it is getting a little scarier, you know, to take on the responsibility of a card that the customer told me it's worth a 100,000 and, you know, it's do I really wanna, like, take it on because, you know, it sometimes you gotta weigh the risk, you know. For me to take it on and submit it for you for $50 or a 100,000 for a $100 is just not worth it. You know? But I will take you and use my connection to PSA, and you could hand it it yourself. Mhmm.

I always find that so interesting and just like that component where people trust you with really, really expensive cards, and there's different things, whether it's shipping, just them being in your possession that, like, you're at risk. Like, do you have any stories or do you have any moments where Mhmm. Someone leaves you with a card or cards and you realize, wow. This is, like, crazy value. Like, there's so much trust in place.

Like, I gotta make sure that, like, I do whatever I can to make sure nothing gets screwed up here. Is there any moments just throughout your career that stand out in your mind? A moment where someone, like, trusted you with a lot and you realized it in that moment? Always. That's the thing.

It's not just about the value because some of them, it's not just about the monetary value. It's sentimental value. You know? Something and then I had a customer. It's only a $10,000 item.

I know it's not a million or you know? But it's a piece that he got with his father, a Babe Ruth photo. You know? It was actually a menu because the grandfather met Babe Ruth in a train ride, and so it's a it's it's like a menu in the in the train. You know?

And I had it authenticated for them and they were so happy to get that done, you know. But it it's it's just moments like that. It's not just about the value. Because if it's messed up, you know, and I have to tell them it's fake, that's you know, it's scary. You know?

And they might have this story that, oh, it's not fake, but sometimes PSA might not authenticate something because let's say Babe Ruth or an athlete is signed a little differently and PSA might not pass that. And I have to tell a customer that, oh, it's not authentic. But they know it's authentic. So that happened to me a couple of times and it's believe me, one card was a JJ Reddick $10 card, but the kid was like almost crying when they wouldn't authenticate the card, you know. And one card is like a big card.

You know? I've also authenticated a low graded a card like a Logo Man of Kyrie rookie year that's worth couple of millions. You know? So I don't see it as a value, but I take care of every everybody's card because of sentimental value or monetary value. You know?

So you gotta handle it that way. You also can't freak out. You know? I've seen a lot of cards. I think maybe that's the reason why too I get a little numb sometimes.

Sometimes the story is better for me than the value of the real value of the card. So I take care of it either way. So You that's those that's crazy. You had that Kyrie, Logo Man rookie. That's a a a big big card.

I I would imagine, like, you are evaluating kind of just not only, like, the performance of cards, but also just, like, evaluating other businesses and kind of what they're doing. You're going to this the Burbank show. I imagine you're going to meet a lot of friends there, see how things are going across the industry, get sentiment from collectors, customers, you name it. I guess, when you think about, like, the current state of the hobby and it you know, people have this debate like, yeah, it's a hobby, but then others are like, well, it's turning into an industry. I think it can be both.

Like, what what do you see, like, right now just in terms of, like, where the the industry is and just people building businesses and doing what you're doing. Like, do you think we're in a good place right now for business owners like you? Do you think there's more room, more opportunity? Like, what's your evaluation? I think we're just in in the infancy of the hobby.

You know? I think there's still a long way to go because we're still there's no perfect platform to sell your cards yet, and there's no is it an asset? Is it an hobby? It's both. You know?

We we just gotta reconcile that it's both. You know? And people are like, oh, you know, the true people, like, the collector in this hobby are, like, so upset that we we look at cards as an asset now. But it's reality. You know?

It is an asset, and that's how I teach my customer to look at it. It's like you're investing in art. You know? You like the pieces. It it it could be your side hobby, but, you know, it is an asset.

Why would you buy something that has no value, you know, in the future? You know? It's always good to think, you know, put yourself in the collector's shoes when you're trying to do something, basically. Why is this piece, you know, could be an asset in twenty years from now? If you give this piece of card to, you know, your grandkids, why why would they enjoy it?

You know, that type of thing. So to me, I could get criticized for it, but I think investing on something, you know, even if it's a hobby or what, you know, it's good to kinda look at the value of it, you know, in the future or even now, you know. Because you don't wanna play hot potato on something that, oh my god, I buy it now. It's like, oh, it's not gonna have value next year. Let me sell it now.

So I I I don't I usually don't tell my I tell my customer not to invest on those type of thing. So you know? Yeah. How do you how do you think about growth and scaling what you're doing in this period where the industry is going through a crazy transition? Undeniably, it's growing.

How do you think about growing your business, but also growing it where you're not compromising, like, the trust you've already established with your customer network? So that's probably a a struggling question that I've been juggling the last couple of years. You know? I wanna grow, to be honest with you, but I'm also I love my independence. You know?

When you sell your and sell your business and have a partner that's really just about the endpoint, the money, and the value, you know, what you're profiting, it it's it's hard because I kinda I like to hand hold, you know, kinda help my customer through services that we offer. It's like I had a customer that spent, like, probably close to half 1,000,000 in six months opening this product with his kids. You know? And they had no way of moving it. So first, it was a lot of I didn't expect that much work to go into it.

They joined every break, everything. They buy cases. It was just probably more than half 1,000,000 now in six months. But, basically, I and then he told his kid, let's let's put some away, but we gotta move some because, you know, you you cannot just hold every card. You know?

They donated some some of the base cards. You know? And then the rest, I graded it for them. I ran in auctions for them. I you know?

So but it's a certain fees. It's it's like, you know, I grade for you, you know, and then I ran it for you. It's like managing their portfolio, basically. Mhmm. And then send them you know, every few weeks, send them their payout, and then and then the cheaper stuff we negotiate, I'll buy it from them because they have no patience for those things, you know.

So but now I I just realized, oh my god. I have, like, accumulated, like, close to two to 3,000 cards that I have no clue what to do right now because I am so busy. Obviously, could grade them. It's tons of like LeBron, Luka, Scurry, some of the rookies, you know. They open good products.

I I I I'm no complain. But to me, it's like asset that you know, we're we you you need to use your money wisely in this hobby as a business owner. So I cannot just put 30,000 on something and not do anything with it because now that 30,000 could be something. So basically, you know, you as a business owner right now, you need cash flow is so important, but you also need to diversify your portfolio. So you always have something that's always churning money, but you also have something that's, an investment part.

Those are those are some wise words. Hopefully, people out there are are taking notes. You said something there that I wanna hit on, which I I think about this all the time, and I've never heard anyone mention it. And it's what I appreciate do it the most about doing what I'm doing is you said the word in independence. I I love being independent.

I love being able to make my own decisions. No approvals. There's no red tape. I don't need to report to anyone except for maybe the financial situation with my with my wife and my family. But I I like being kind of in control of my own destiny.

I I gather it's similar for you. Maybe talk this is what I love about this space. There's so much opportunity to be Mhmm. Independent. Like, how how much do you value your independence in doing what you're doing?

A lot. Probably that's the reason why I still haven't partnered up. You know, I've been offered financial, you know, kinda like backing. You know? But it's also I I don't want people to question me, oh, maybe it's time to sell let let's sell this now.

What sell, what not to sell. Because now, it just chain it's just not me. You know? And each independent business need to think of it like, do we wanna do this? Some people would wanna do that.

I it's just to me at my age and where I stand in, I'm comfortable. Probably comfortable is tied into, you know, being independent and you know, yeah. If I wanted to do a show in Burbank next week, great. And I'm staying there for a week. You know?

I don't need someone to tell me, oh, I have to come back and run my shop. You know? It's so important. You gotta get some time in to enjoy the weather. You know?

If I'm going to Hawaii in a two day show, I cannot just go to especially with the eleven hour, twelve hour flight coming back and forth, there's no way. You gotta stay there a week. You know? It's you gotta find ways to enjoy what you do and, you know, that that's something about independent. If you treasure that, I I think, this is a business that you could do that.

And it it's not not people are like, oh, it's nine to five. You know, that's a lot no. This is actually twenty four seven job. It is. It is.

It is. I I hired an employee before after three years trying to teach this employee. I I thought he's gonna be, like, my future who's gonna take over, you know. And then one day, he just told me, I cannot do this. I was heartbreaking because I invested three years with this person.

And then it's like, you live and breathe sports cards. And to me, I don't think of it that way because to me, it's not like I love looking at cards. You know? I love watching sports. You know?

And you can't it's in it. You cannot teach that. That that's the thing. You know? Anybody that does this full time has to love it, basically.

They do. I can't I have a hard time turning it off. I'm, like, twenty four seven. I sense that from you as well. And maybe just, like, as we close this out, this is awesome kinda getting your perspective on all things trust and what you're seeing in the current space.

There's there's undeniably, like, in a market like this, there are more individuals that have jobs, who might be weekend warriors, who have thought about working in the hobby full time, who are, like, leaping and making that decision now, which I think is great. Like, I I want everyone to be as successful as possible. But what kind of advice do you have for anyone who is maybe just new to starting a business in this space or thinking about it? Like, what what it what is, like, one piece of advice you'd give those individuals based on kind of your history of of building your business? Diversify your portfolio and knowing what you're getting into.

You know? If you're gonna half ass about it, I don't think you could be successful. You could be successful for a little bit, but if you're building a brand, it's you have to put a lot into it. You know? Even the people you hire or, you know, the asset you you you buy, you know, it has to have, you know, some some sort of thoughts into it, basically.

You know? Because at the end of the day, you're you're blaming yourself if you invest wrong. You know? And money liquidity is something in this hobby that if you invest wrong in one thing, it could take you out. So, you know, invest right in I mean, this is something I I haven't told a lot of people, but for fifth I've been doing this for twenty odd years, you know.

But for the first ten to fifteen years, I I looked at this as a job. I I never held on to anything. People are, like, always asking me, oh my god. Could you imagine if you held on to this? You know?

I had 13 national treasured old gems of curry. I sold it from range of $1,500 to 3,500. You know? But if I didn't sell those things, I wouldn't have my business right now. I have a red trout that now is probably worth, you know, half 1,000,000.

But, you know, I I sold it for $5,000. I've I have what's his name? LeBron's exquisite. You know, I sold it for $5,000. I mean, 5,000 and then the next one was 22,000.

You know? But it's it's like, you know, you in the in the beginning when you're building something, you gotta sacrifice investing and falling in love with the card. You just it's a job. It's like a real estate agent. You buy and flip, buy and flip.

And then later on, when you you have some sort of secure, you know, funds, you then you maybe put aside a few pieces that's for investment. You know, you build it slowly. I know it it's like it takes patience. But, you know, with our with the newer generation, it's kinda tough, you know. But to be to be honest, it's also a little easier now.

It probably if I have all this knowledge, you know, it would have taken me maybe five years and then, you know, and invest. But, you know, that's that's all I could say. Amazing. Great feedback. Mhmm.

Aaron, always fun chatting with you. Best of luck Thank you. You travel out West. Hopefully, we can reconnect sometime next this year and kinda get some perspective from you on kinda what you're seeing in the space, but always enjoy the conversation. Thank you, Beth.