welcome back to another episode of hobby jobs here on the stacking slabs network for those of you who are new to hobby jobs this show exists to support the people building in the sports card industry that includes but is not limited to those of you who are running a shop employees helping the shop work better people working at big businesses in this space and maybe the person out there listening who keeps wondering whether their skills could have a place in this industry today i want to spend time on that last question you don't have to sell cards to build a hobby business i know that because that's what i'm doing here at stacking slabs i collect cards i care deeply about cards but the business i'm building provides something different a story this week gave me a good reason to talk about it packscout launched a platform to help people compare repacks and the part that caught my attention was the problem behind the product with more options come more questions somebody has to help people make sense of them if you've been thinking about working in the hobby i want you to listen for the problems you already understand there could be an opportunity sitting inside the work people around you keep struggling to get done before we get into it i got to thank my good friends at bcw supplies for sponsoring and putting their name behind the hobbyjobs platform for over forty five years bcw has helped retailers and wholesale partners stay stocked with the storage and display accessories collector trust backed by dependable fulfillment and consistency to keep shelves stocked and margin strong you can learn more at b c w supplies backslash wholesale so paxscout launched on october thirteenth sports collectors daily reported that it lets collectors compare repack prices estimated returns and available chase cards across providers the report identified russ lieberman whose background includes bloomberg reuters and collectibles research company altan insights as a cofounder think about the job someone is trying to do before they spend money on a repack they might have several websites open each one presents its products a little differently they're trying to understand what the pack costs what the possible outcomes are and what happens if they want to sell that card back packscout's site puts comparison tools in one place it also lets people search for cards they want to find the business opportunity that interests me is addressing the confusion created by all of these offerings that's a useful way to look at an industry that's growing when new products arrive the work required to understand those products can grow along with them and and there's an important detail in paxcout's own explanation of its methodology it says the underlying values and product information come from the platforms it does not independently value the cards at launch or verify every underlying data point its trust score reflects how complete and current the collected information is that matters a score describing the available data should be understood on those terms it doesn't establish that a product is a good purchase for you packscout also explains expected value as an average across possible outcomes with buyback terms included in its calculation it doesn't tell you what you'll get from your next pack here's a made up example to make the distinction clear imagine a ten dollar pack with fifty percent chance of a two dollar buyback and a fifty percent chance of a fourteen dollar buyback the average buyback would be eight dollars those two possible outcomes are still two dollars and fourteen dollars nobody in that example receives eight dollars and the average is below the purchase price that's why a comparison tool needs to explain its numbers a clean looking dashboard can make something easier to read the customer still needs to understand what the dashboard measures as an operator that's a lesson worth sitting with if you're selling clarity explaining the limits of your information is part of delivering the product i also wouldn't confuse a launch with proof of a durable business we don't know yet whether packscout will earn repeat use or how its economics will develop i'm interested in the need it has identified its long term results are still ahead of it there are questions i'd ask any company building this kind of service how will you keep the information current what happens when a provider stops sharing data if commercial relationships influence what people see how do you explain that those are operating questions they're also questions about whether the customer will keep trusting you for our purposes today the takeaway is that somebody looked at a busy category and saw another job that needed doing they brought experience from another industry to a problem inside of collecting i want more people to recognize that possibility in their own work when i started stacking slabs the question that kept pulling me in was why we collect i could find people talking about cards what i wanted was more room for the psychology behind the decisions that we made why does one card stay with us why do we spend months looking for something why can a card that means very little to someone else mean so much to us i was amazed that i wasn't finding that kind of ongoing conversation i wanted to hear about that part of collecting i wanted to explore it through my own experience and through conversations with other collectors i didn't have every answer i had questions i cared about and a willingness to keep asking them and i think there's a meaningful difference between choosing a format and knowing what you want that format to do a podcast was the way i could have those conversations the reason to listen was the opportunity to think about it more deeply in my own collecting and to hear from people that i was connecting with and that i felt mattered to the audience that's what i kept coming back to for the first four years i didn't take a dollar i was building it alongside my own career i viewed it as a passion project for a long time i'm careful with that part of the story because i wouldn't tell somebody that working for years without paying yourself is the plan that you should go copy your responsibilities and financial situation matter i can tell you how mine developed with out pretending it's a formula what i do think you can take away is the value of staying close to a question you're trying to answer for yourself i shared what i was learning other collectors shared their experiences and over time the consistency of those conversations got the attention of brand partners they could see an audience they wanted to understand and connect with there was a value for the collector listening and value for the partner helping make the work possible building the business required taking responsibility for both that continues today i have to think about what serves the audience and what supports the production of the next episode and the work has become more specific as the network has grown a football collector and a wnba collector can both love the hobby in one very different conversations giving those people a place to go is part of what we're building hobby jobs comes from a similar observation people building businesses in this industry have useful knowledge a lot of that knowledge stays inside their company or in a conversation for few people to hear i want to make more of those available to the person who can use it and i have been working in the background to build out a schedule of operators that are going to come on hobby jobs in the coming weeks and you're going to get the opportunity to learn from them if you know how another shop solved a staffing problem maybe you can make a better decision in yours if you hear how someone built a career using a skill you already have maybe you can see a path you haven't considered that's a real need i want to serve when you think about your own idea try describing it that way who needs help what do they need help doing why are you equipped to help them those answers will tell you more than a logo ever will there are already businesses showing us how much opportunity exists around the transaction take mascot its product materials describe a tool for managing inventory listing across marketplaces and keeping listings synchronize and removing listings elsewhere when an item sells picture the shop owner who sells in several places every additional channel creates work the seller has to know what's available and what is already sold helping that person keep track of their business has value even though the software company didn't manufacture the card here's another example from the repack category psa announced its certified repack service in july of twenty five it described checking the checklist and supervising randomization and sealing psa also stated that it did not curate the checklist or determine the odds that service addresses a different question from a product comparison was the run packed as promised you can see the distinct needs emerging inside the same category understanding an offer is one verifying a packing process is another neither one automatically answers every question a customer might have that distinction can help you narrow in on your own idea you don't have to solve an entire industry you do need to be clear about the problem you take responsibility for solving bcw which supports this show is another example of a company serving work around the cards storage and display are part of what lets retailers serve their collectors the accessories matter because of what people need to do with the products they own and sell now think about an ordinary week inside of a hobby business product arrives somebody identifies it takes a photo puts the information into a system answers several questions about it and make sure the order reaches the right person if the company is growing somebody also has to train the next employee to do those things well every one of those activities deserves attention sometimes the business already has the people and the tools it needs sometimes the owner is doing it late at night because there isn't a better option in place i was listening to stephanie garcia mama breaks's podcast this week and she was talking about her experience moving from a teacher into a teacher slash business builder and talking about the late nights staying up late getting cards ready for shipping after a break and then going to school a few hours later with very little sleep i think we should probably have stephanie on hobby jobs because when i was listening to that episode i thought man this could be an episode of hobby jobs stay tuned for that let's make this practical say you wanna build something in the hobby and you're trying to choose where to start i would begin by paying attention to repeated workarounds the spreadsheet somebody keeps rebuilding the same customer question answered every day the owner who spends sunday nights fixing the information that should have been captured during the week those are the things to investigate they give you a place to start a conversation with the person doing the work ask them to walk you through the last time it appeared if you're interested in inventory intake ask what happened with the last collection they purchased how did they identify the cards where did they get the information where did it go at what point were they ready to sell then stay with the details who touched the work where did they have to stop what needed to be corrected what happened while those cards were waiting you're looking for consequences of the problem does it delay revenue does it create errors does it keep the owner from spending time with customers and ask what have they already tried if they've used three tools and abandoned all of them you you need to understand why your idea might have the same problem as those tools you also need to know who can improve spending money to fix it the employee who feels the pain or the person who controls the budget are likely different people here's how i turn that into a small first offer this is a hypothetical example suppose you're a good product photographer and organizing information you talk with a few dealers and hear that purchase inventory is sitting for days before anyone gets it photographed and ready to list you could offer one paid trial with a defined batch of cards agree on the photographs the information you'll capture the delivery date and how the files will be organized decide how errors will be corrected and who handles the physical cards that gives the customer something concrete to evaluate it also gives you a way to learn how long the work really takes it also keeps you from promising an entire operations department before you're you know whether you can deliver or not after the trial you can ask what has changed this is the strongest part about building a business gathering information understanding what works what doesn't work what you can streamline and what ultimately will help save the operator time you want to learn those things while the commitment with your prospective customer is small describe the opportunity in one sentence a customer would recognize for example i help dealers get newly purchased inventory ready to list within agreed turnaround times that statement gives you something to test you can talk about batch sizes the deadline the quality of files and the price the customer can tell you whether that would help if your explanation requires several minutes before the person understands what you do keep working on the offer you may be trying to solve too many problems at once this is something that i have ran into so many times and not only building stacking slabs and starting shows and pointing them at specific audiences and brand partners but also in my fifteen year of building software in the b to b tech space starting small understanding the real needs and the real needs usually aren't anything sexy saving time causing your customer to spend less money drive better results like those are the things that matter sometimes you'll pitch something and the price will be wrong sometimes the timing is wrong sometimes the problem just isn't important enough you need to be willing to find out you gotta put your investigator hat on everyone is creating new things right now the access to create new ideas and new tools is unlimited the bar is lower than it has ever been before there are so many people pitching new things the more you're going to realize if your thing product or service will help it's by testing it's by having conversations it's by talking to the people who could buy your product getting time understanding the needs and making sure you're consistently finding information from them that will help you refine not only your pitch but maybe the product or service that you provide think this connects back to what i wrote in the hobby jobs newsletter this week i was thinking about the responsibility that comes with creating something people want to return to and understanding the cost required to keeping it available apply that to any business we've talked about today if you build a comparison tool what gives someone a reason to use you again if you provide an inventory service what makes the dealer send you its next batch if you create a show why does someone make time for the next episode the first delivery gives you something to learn from the next decision tells you whether the value is continuing you should also understand what it costs you to provide that value here's another hypothetical you charge a dealer five hundred dollars for a project after the direct expenses you have three hundred dollars left you spent twenty hours delivering it that's fifteen dollars an hour before you account for overhead taxes and the time it took the customer the five hundred dollar sale felt good the full picture gives you a decision to make maybe the second project will be faster because you've learned the process maybe you need a narrower space maybe you need to charge more you won't know which change matters if you don't keep track of the work your own time belongs in that picture it's probably the most valuable asset it's the most invaluable asset of my time even when you're doing it around another job also i think you need to pay attention to the work that arrives after delivery if the customer needs repeated corrections or support that time is part of the service you can have a clear agreement about what's included and still treat the customer well for a recurring service be clear about what recurs this is why scoping's really matter when you are building out contracts and agreements a monthly payment needs a continuing reason it might cover ongoing inventory batches a regular updated report or maintenance system that the business uses every day if the customer only needs a one time project build an offer that fits that need trying to force every service into a subscription can make it harder for someone to buy and get the actual thing that they want there's a similar issue with content recording is only part of what it takes to publish an episode preparation editing promotion take time too partners and customers are supporting a service that has to keep being delivered that's why i want aspiring owners to name the payer early for a software business maybe the shop pays because the tool supports its operation for a media business listeners might get free content while aligned brand partners help fund its production a service business might charge the operator directly for a completed project those are different relationships they come with different obligations in media i have to keep earning the audience's attention while doing the work that creates value for partners if i stop understanding the audience the partnership has less value for a comparison business i'd wanna understand how its revenue model supports the credibility of its recommendations and rankings that's a question i'd ask about any comparison platform i'm not claiming a particular revenue model for packscout and there's another kind of dependence to consider a business can avoid owning card inventory and still depend heavily on a marketplace data source or one category staying popular ask yourself what would happen if that source you rely on changes terms or disappear could you still serve the customer what part of the value comes from your own knowledge process and relationships you don't need a perfect answer before you begin you should understand what could interrupt your ability to deliver the goal is to build something people can rely on in a business that can afford to keep showing up for them there's another point i don't wanna lose you can explore this opportunity without immediately becoming a founder working inside a hobby company can show you problems you never understand from the outside you see where the customer expectations and operating reality really meet you learn what happens when the volume increases and when the process breaks that experience has value whether you eventually start a business or build your own career for someone coming from another industry i'd make sure your experience is easy for a hobby operator to understand if you've managed a customer support team explain what you've improved and how you've measured it if you train employees show how you've helped them learn about your learn the work if you're good at sales talk about how you understand the customer's need and keep a buying process moving your interest in cards gives them a reason to care your record of doing useful work gives them the company a reason to consider you and if you're already owning a shop or run a hobby business look at the people on your team through this lens too someone may have a skill you're barely using because you hired them for a narrower task ask what they've done before ask which recurring problem they think they could improve give them a specific outcome to work towards and enough room to show what they can do growth creates demand that the original team structure may not have anticipated the person who helps you meet those demands might already be in the building for the owner listening there's a buying decision in all of this as well when somebody pitches you a tool or service ask them to connect it to the way your team actually works who will use it what information will they have to put in it what has to change before you get the benefit if the system depends on your employees doing another hour of work every day include that in your evaluation a useful trial should tell you whether the improvement survives an ordinary busy week see what happens when inventory arrives late or someone is out ask the employee doing the work what became easier and what became harder then compare that experience with what you're trying to improve did the items get listed sooner were there fewer errors to fix could you find the information when a customer asked for it that gives you a better basis for deciding whether to continue it also gives a good service provider specific feedback that they can use both sides benefit from getting concrete the owner can make a more informed purchase and the person building the service learns what the customer really values maybe i'll do an episode in the coming weeks about building the proposal process and listening to prospective customers it is something that i'm very passionate about i've been doing it my entire career and i've have applied a similar methodology to the business that i'm building here at stacking slabs it is all about understanding the person that you're trying to sell to understand their business needs where their hang ups what they're looking to solve and when you gather that information you have the ability as a business owner and operator to create a customized solution directly for that person when i'm selling here at stacking slabs i'm not selling generic cookie cutter packages to everyone i don't sell unless i have a conversation with you i need to discover your problems i need to discover your needs i need to discover how what we're building here at stacking slabs can benefit you and so that is something i'm super passionate about and maybe that's something we will explore in the coming weeks this brings us to the role i wanna highlight from this week's newsletter and that's the sales coordinator at mascot the listing describes a full time early career role in chicago the work includes researching prospective customers coordinating product demos and keeping prospect information organized following up and helping with targeted outreach as the person learns the product there's an opportunity to become more involved in demos and customer conversation i picked this one because the connection to today's topic is direct you would be helping a hobby business evaluate software that supports how they operate you learn what a shop owner or consignor is trying to accomplish then help the team have a useful conversation with that person that requires organization and curiosity knowing cards helps you understand the context you also need to prepare communicate clearly and follow through i'm suggesting this role because i think it aligns directly with what we've talked about today the listing is linked in the hobby jobs newsletter make sure you check that out it is free i drop a new newsletter every tuesday would love for you to sign up and be a part of it before we wrap up i wanna give you something you can do with this episode think about one reoccurring problem you've observed in the hobby choose a person you can actually talk with who experiences it ask them about the last time it happened let them walk you through the work before you tell them your idea find out what it cost them in time money and missed opportunities and what they've already done to try to fix it then decide whether there's one small thing you could deliver that would make the next time easier you might find an opportunity for a business you might find a way to become more valuable in your current job you might learn that the idea you are excited about needs to change all those outcomes can help you move forward pax scout gave us a timely example of somebody identifying confusion and building a way to address it my own experience with stacking slabs started with wanting to understand why we collect and creating a place to explore that question your opportunity will come from what you see what you know and the work you've prepared to do for somebody else that's what i want hobby jobs to help make visible if you're already building something around a problem like this i'd love to hear about it reply to the newsletter email me stacking slabs at g mail dot com hit me up in the dms on instagram at stacking slabs but make sure you subscribe to that newsletter it's on substack stacking slabs dot substack dot com we share operator stories practical resources and rules for people who want to get into this industry of course i wanna thank my good friends at bcw supplies we would not be doing the newsletter or this weekly show without them make sure you check them out b c w supplies dot com backslash wholesale i'm brett mcgrath i love to collect i love to build i love the sports card industry keep tuning in for more hobby jobs appreciate your support talk to you soon