welcome back to hobby jobs presented by bcw supplies i am brett mcgrath excited to be back here this is gonna be a fun episode if you're new to hobbyjobs this show exists to support the people building the sports card industry if you are running a business working inside one or trying to find your way into this space i want you to leave with something you can use today i wanna talk about what happens after you find an idea that works you run a live show and collectors come back you open a shop and family start spending their saturdays there you buy a collection find the right buyers and realize there might just be a business there how do you do it again how do you bring someone onto your team and help them deliver that same experience and how do you keep improving when the industry around you changes later in this episode you'll hear my conversation with odeh hishmay founder and owner of it's time sports cards tcg in esports oday brings experience from operating domino's locations and owning ace hardware stores he has a lot to share about the work behind a business people want to return to before we get into it i wanna start with a story about panini on september twenty eighth panini america and mlb players inc announced a nonexclusive multiyear agreement covering every active minor league baseball player panini says its first release under the agreement will be three and two baseball scheduled for november that is player licensing agreement it should not be confused with acquiring major league baseball's teams names and logos the announcement gives panini broader access to the minor league player pool for its baseball products what interests me here is the operating decision my read is that panini has found another way to serve baseball collectors using brands and capabilities it already has the results are still ahead of us a licensing announcement doesn't tell us how collectors will respond or whether the products will succeed but it gives us useful question to bring back to our own businesses when the path we expected becomes harder what other path could our strength support if you own a shop maybe you can't get the allocation you want if you're a dealer maybe the inventory you used to buy has become more expensive if you're building a media business like myself maybe the channel that helped people discover you has changed it's easy to spend all of your energy talking about what someone else has that you don't a better allocation more money bigger audience those differences can be real they also don't tell you what to do monday morning at some point you have to look at the people you can serve and the resources you actually have maybe your strength is knowing a category deeply enough to help collectors who feel lost maybe it's the trust you've built with local families maybe it's the ability to buy a collection organize it and put the right cards in front of the right people those strengths can support more than one way of doing business o'day's story gives us smaller more personal example he describes testing pokemon cards inside a ace hardware store they sold through that gave a reason for him to expand the experiment and learn more about the category he had an existing business noticed an opportunity and tested it he didn't start with proof that a large card shop would work he started with something he could observe i like that because adaptability can sound abstract until you put it next to the actual decision what are customers asking for what can we test what would make us keep going what would make us stop you still need discipline every new opportunity brings work someone has to source the inventory explain the offer deliver the experience and see whether the economics of the situation hold up that's where today's conversation goes finding a new lane creates an opportunity the operating system behind your business determines whether you can keep serving people in that lane if every new idea depends on the owner remembering everything and fixing every problem the business has a limit you might reach that limit during a good week when demand is finally showing up so i wanna spend this episode on how we build a business that can handle success learn from mistakes and keep its promises to collectors gotta shout out bcw supplies for sponsoring hobby jobs for forty five years bcw has helped retailers and wholesale partners stay stocked with storage and display accessories collectors trust backed by dependable fulfillment and consistency to keep shelves stocked and margins strong learn more at b c w supplies dot com backslash wholesale when i say operating system i'm talking about how the work gets done inside your business what happens when a collector comes in who decides where the cards go how does the next person know what's ready to sell what happens when an order has a problem how does the team learn from that you already have the answers to those questions even if you've never written them down maybe the answer to most of them is just ask me and that can work when you're doing a small amount of business you know where everything is you know what you paid you recognize the customer as the work grows more people need information that used to live entirely inside your head and the collector feels it when the information doesn't travel they buy the card that has that already sold in the shop their order sits because nobody knows who is supposed to pack it they ask a reasonable question and get different answers from two people inside your team you can care deeply about collectors and still create those experiences good intentions need a reliable way to reach the customer the last hobby jobs newsletter focused on live commerce and the work around a show i wanna take that one step further what does a business need to do so the experience works on the second show the tenth show in the day the owner isn't in the room i haven't sold cards live i'm looking at it through the operators i've talked with in my own experience in building stacking slabs i send an interview guest a format before we record that gives them the chance to understand where we're going and i think about what they want to share i work with a producer on the audio there is work after the conversation to get in in front of all of you each of those steps supports something the listener experiences the format helps the guests settle in the audio work makes the episode easier to listen to the publishing work helps people find it the listener doesn't have to think about any of that they should be able to enjoy the conversation for a hobby business i i would start in the same place what do you want the customer to experience be specific enough like someone on your team can just act on it if you want a family to feel welcome think about what happens when they walk through the door if you want a collector to feel confident buying a raw card think about how you show and explain condition if you want a seller to trust you with your collection think about how you communicate what happens next then ask what has to happen behind the scenes to deliver that experience consistently o'day wanted to create a place where families could spend time together in our conversation he describes making room for people to sit play and trade that's a decision about space keeping the environment welcoming requires decisions about staffing events and how people are treated the promise reaches beyond the layout of the store this is why systems can help businesses differentiate another shop might carry the same box another seller might have a similar card the way your team helps someone keeps them informed and resolves an issue can give the collector a reason to choose you again that advantage depends on what happens repeatedly if the experience changes completely depending on who you're working with you have something to fix before you add more volume i would rather understand that while the business is manageable growth brings more customers through the process you've already built it can reveal the weak spots quickly let's make this practical by following a collection through a hypothetical hobby business the business has a real retail shop sells individual cards online and runs a weekly live show a collector walks in in with a collection they want to sell the first step is intake someone needs to understand what the seller is bringing in what they're asking for and who can make the buying decision if an offer needs approval the employee needs to know how to get it without leaving the seller wondering what's happening once the business buys the collection the cards need an identity and location you need a way to connect what you bought to where it sits and how it will be sold that might begin with a simple spreadsheet and numbered storage boxes higher volume might call for dedicated software the important question is whether the person doing the next step can find the card and understand its status say that there are two versions of the same player's card in a collection one is numbered parallel one is a base card a vague entry that says the player's name doesn't give the listing person enough information they need to identify the exact card and check the details before making a promise to the buyer you also need a consistent approach to recording purchase costs a collection bought for one total price makes that harder than buying one single card your business needs a method for allocating the cost so you can assess what you're making when the cards sell then comes the decision about where the card belongs some cards can make sense in the shop because of local interest others may deserve an individual listing and good photograph some fit the audience for your next live show the person making those decisions needs a reason they can explain otherwise the next employee is guessing and you would have no way to teach the judgment behind the work i think that is an underappreciated part of building systems you want people to understand enough to handle the next collection which won't look exactly like the last one one card is assigned to a live show you need to know it's available a unique card that is still offered through another channel can create a problem if two buyers purchase it decide how you're reserving it and how the other listings can get updated the physical card needs to travel with that decision if the computer says it's ready for the show but the card is sitting in someone else's buying pile the host will be looking for it while collectors wait think about the person on camera they need the card prepared the important details visible and a way to help when a question comes up the preparation gives them more attention to spend when the people are watching even the platform tools require decisions ebay sellers guidance describes setting up an item lineup managing chat processing orders if also it also offers team access so different people can handle tasks around the event those tools create options your team still needs to decide who owns the work after a card sells the next handoff begins the sold card needs to be connected to the correct order and moved to a place where it can be packed accurately for this hypothetical business i would want to clearly separate a separated area for sold items i would want the order identifier to stay with the card and before sealing the package i would want someone to check the exact card against the paid order those are simple choices they matter when there are several similar cards on a table and the team is trying to move quickly the work continues after shipping if the buyer has a question who sees it who can resolve it how does the team know an issue is still open a customer should be able to reach the business without having to find the owner personally and an employee should be able to see what has already been said so the customer doesn't have to start over now step back and look at the whole collection it moved through buying storage channel decisions selling shipping customer support at each handoff someone needed information from the person before them you can be excellent at buying and still lose time or trust further along that is why i would ask operators to follow an actual card through their business see where where it waits see where someone has a question to ask see where the information gets written down twice or never recorded at all you might discover that the biggest problem is a ten second second decision nobody owns or that the cards are selling faster than the shipping team can prepare them in that second case another show could make the customer experience even worse before you add it understand how much work the team can complete and what needs to change support to support more orders the financial view matters here too sales alone won't tell you how the channel is performing look at acquisition costs selling fees supplies and the labor involved look at when money goes out for inventory and when it becomes available once again o'day talks candidly about that pressure in our conversation product access and the timing of inventory purchases affect what he can do a great customer experience needs a business behind it that can keep operating your numbers should help decide what to repeat what to fix and what to stop otherwise you can spend a lot of time getting more efficient at work that doesn't make sense for your own business there's a people question running through every part of that example who owns the next step and do they have what they need to do it well i think owners can underestimate how much judgment they built through repetition you know which details to check you know when something feels off you know which customer issue you'd handle immediately someone joining your team doesn't have that entire history they need you to make the expectations clear and why the detail matters take the instruction make sure orders go out correctly everyone will agree with it it still leaves a new employee a lot to figure out show them how to verify the order show them where to find the card explain what to do if the serial number doesn't match the condition raises a question or they can't locate the item if something is wrong give them permission to stop and get help moving faster isn't useful when the wrong card is about to leave the building you also need to decide which problems they can resolve on their own and which need another person involved that helps the customer get an answer and keeps every ordinary decision from coming back to you o'day talks about giving people clear expectations and systems of support that combination matters accountability is more useful when the person understands the job has to be trained and has a realistic way to complete it if a step gets missed i would ask a few questions before assuming the employee doesn't care did we explain it did we show it can they do it even during a busy shift do they have all the information and equipment they need then you have much more of a specific conversation about performance and sometimes you'll learn that the process needs to change o'day describes rolling out a form and hearing from an employee that it asked for too much he simplified it that is a useful example of listening to the person doing the work you can preserve the information the business needs while reducing the burden of collecting it the team is more likely to use a process that fits its actual situation i would think about incentives in the same way if someone is rewarded only for sales they may have a reason to keep pushing inventory through while problems show up elsewhere ask whether the way you recognize good work supports the experience you have promised accurate orders thoughtful customer service and reliable preparation all contribute to the business people doing that work should understand how it matters for anyone managing a team there's a useful test here can you explain what good work looks like for that particular role can that person doing it explain the same thing back to you if those answers are far apart start there you don't need another dashboard to have that conversation i did some research outside of the hobby while preparing for this episode one idea from toyota's description of its production system stood out to me it begins with making the work easier for workers toyota also describes stopping when a problem is detected so defects don't continue through the process my application of the hobby a hobby business is pretty direct make the correct action easier to take and make problems visible when someone can still do something about them a car shop has different inventory and constraints from a car manufacturer i'm taking that principle and asking where it could help in our work if the shipping person keeps walking across the room of of supplies move supplies closer if an employee keeps asking whether a card is sold make it easier for them to see if a form takes too long during a busy event look at what information is essential and when it should be captured start watching the work you will learn more from standing next to the person packing the orders than from imagining what their day looks like that also gives us a better starting point for technology o'day shows an app during our conversation he built to bring information about his business together it's useful context for how he thinks it doesn't mean every listener needs to build an app understand the job you need a tool for if the buying and shipping teams disagree about what an inventory status means software won't settle the agreement you have to define it and make sure people use it consistently for this week i would keep the assignment small choose one reoccurring problem use something from your team that they've actually dealt with whether it's a missing card delayed order or a customer question that nobody answered follow the work from the moment it began until it's complete write down where it gets held up and where the information the next person needs is located ask the person doing the work where they lose time or just have to guess then change one thing you can observe maybe sold cards moved into labeled bins maybe one person checks the open customer status at the end of each day maybe the next live show has fewer items so the team can test the packing process properly you can decide what you wanna learn before you make the change if you're trying to reduce shipping errors track the errors in the number of orders if you're trying to respond faster watch how long customers wait for a useful answer a week with fewer orders can look better simply because there's less work keep that context when you judge the result meet with the team after they've tried the change ask questions that is how i would connect systems back to adaptability a process gives you something you can examine when conditions change you can see which step needs to change with them the same discipline applies to a new opportunity before adding a new channel or an event decide what a useful test would look like how much work can you support what will you spend what customer behavior will give you reason to continue you don't have to answer every question before you begin you should know where to recognize when an experiment is working and when it is putting pressure on the rest of the business oday looks for evidence that people are returning and making the store part of their lives for your business decide which return behavior matters and how you'll notice it pair that with an honest look at what it costs to create the experience a room full of people can feel great you still need to understand whether the business can keep serving that room the work helps you make more grounded decisions about expansion before you add another location or more shows look at what depends on you today look at whether another person can run the process and whether the customer still receives the experience intended you can build towards this gradually pick the next piece of work that needs to become more reliable and give it your attention the job i wanna highlight from this week's newsletter is the business development manager of trading cards and collectibles at stockx live the employer's posting includes recruiting sellers guiding them towards their first show coordinating handoffs with account management and bringing seller feedback to the product team it also calls for tracking the seller pipeline and the time it takes to reach a first show that fits today's topic because a relationship needs a process around it finding someone who wants to sell is only the beginning helping that person get ready and making sure the next team has the information it needs are part of delivering on the opportunity the broader lesson for anyone trying to enter the hobby professionally is that skills from industries can be useful if you have trained employees organized inventory manage customer issues or sales process think about the problems you have learned to you have learned to solve then look for a hobby business dealing with a similar problem be specific when you talk about your experience your interest in cards gives you a reason to care about the industry your ability to improve the work gives the employer a reason to consider you odae's background is a good example of that he brought experiencing managing people and operations into a business with different products and different constraints you'll hear him talk about both strengths that transferred in the parts he had to learn if the stockx role interests you the newsletter hat is in the link in the show notes check the employer's listing for correct details when you are ready to apply before we get into the conversation with odae i wanna leave you with one question what part of your business becomes unreliable when you aren't there pick one part each week follow the work talk to the person doing it and make the next step clear give yourself something specific to improve for now let's kick it over to the conversation with oday hishmay founder and owner at its time sports cards tcg and esports that was odeh hishmay from its time sportscards tcg and esports

we are back with another operator conversation here on hobby jobs presented by bcw supplies we had a chance to get to know each other before we hit record and i'm really excited about the mindset that is going to be brought to this conversation i am joined by odeh hishmay who is the founder and owner at it's time sports cards tcg in esports he has built he has built an amazing operation and we're gonna talk about his build how he got into it and a whole lot more but without further ado odai welcome man how are you hey good thank you so much for having me super excited to share our journey and and where we're heading so let's start with what we were just talking about your background because i feel like your background gives context for what you have built and what you are building maybe share with the audience kind of like what got you into this space and the skills and maybe outside the hobby skills you are bringing to the table in your build if it's time well thank you for that and yeah i'll be more than happy to so my background is service the pizza industry domino's pizza we're like a multi unit operator my dad and his brothers are the owners and i'm still currently vice president for the company running the arizona department of like fifty stores so like high level employee management and operations is like my bread and butter so when its time was presented to me through bruce bruce buffer and he wanted to open its time pizza it was very clear to me that that's not the route that i wanted to go but with my customer service and ability to attack customer service i knew that i can go after this market in a different way because coming into this market in twenty twenty five november of twenty twenty five you're well behind everybody else so i knew i i wasn't gonna be able to compete against burbank and all the big dogs like blow out and and steal city with the inventory they had and and you know what like the the number game wasn't something that i wanted to attack i spent most of my time in the hobby from the retail of the ace hardware side which i own a couple hardware stores and sell sell cards inside of it and my other experiences was the card shows and as much as awesome the card shows are to build relationships that's what i use them for where everybody else there was building percentages and i i refused to chase that one to two percent because i realized that the volume that we wanted to pull was gonna come through relationship building and then building an environment where families can come and build those core memories when people remember sports cards or remember sports they remember those moments when their dad or their grandpa or their uncle throwing the ball core memories of the game and so it was like approaching this industry before fanatics was really talking about the love of collecting we realized that there was a big gap in this industry that was very transactional and so we went at it in a way that we would we didn't we didn't wanna build a space we could have easily used every square foot of our facility to put product on the walls and no shelving no seating and no hangout space but we went the exact opposite as far as like in my eight thousand square feet maybe only two thousand square feet is actually used for product the rest is for tables we have a full sports simulator that has the best golf full swing side of it but it also has every single sport from football basketball soccer hockey where you can play any sport you want we got a little we have a full sized basketball hoop in that room seating for about fifteen to twenty people a hundred and thirty inch tv plus another seventy eighty inch tv for just playing video games and and then we probably have like seating at all times for around sixty to seventy people just to sit play their tournament games and have zero transaction it's a free trade zone we encourage people to come and meet other people to trade their cards so they're not meeting in the middle of a walmart or a target parking lot in an unsafe situation it is in one of the nicer areas of california in in calabasas agora hills area so it's very right off the freeway very accessible and with bruce's name we we have a franchise agreement with him and so he came through and he gives us a notoriety of like hey these are new we're new to the industry but i'm willing to put my name behind it so that's like the overall gist but when you look at our when you look at our our business model it is a surface around core memories and building that environment of safety and learning about the hobby and then connecting those like situational moments of like collecting with the actual enjoyment of your grandpas and your dad i mean the amount of families that we have changed their weekly like routines and part of their core memories like i i'm not bragging here but there's like celebrities that live in the area that actually spend every week there with their family and like they've chosen us as a place where they've had their birthday parties and and different like random events from graduations or going on their retreats for their religion or whatever it may be we're we have been a cornerstone in people's lives and on high high affluent people that can choose to go anywhere in the world but but they pick us every single time and that's when i i just know that we figured something out that's different than everybody else in this industry you are a long game player long game operator and i wanna get into that but you said something upfront that i don't wanna brush by you mentioned domino's and family business you mentioned ace hardware these are brands like anyone listening is familiar with i think what might be interesting to the audience is kind of your you understanding the impact of the hobby and how the hobby is growing through the testing of sports cards within the ace hardware retail store maybe share some perspective on that experiment and how that experiment helped gave you confidence when you were thinking about building and opening up its time yeah yeah it's pretty cool so my son at the time was back in twenty so he was like six at the time five six years old and he was just getting back into pokemon and i looked on the ace we we've just bought two ace stores a couple years prior and in my slower location i had to figure something out you know like it's too competitive in the industry with hardware and home depot and online amazon and so i looked on the ace dot com and they had pokemon cards available i'm like alright dude i'm gonna try it month later i go back to this i mean i've been to the store quite a bit but like about a month later i looked at the shelves i'm like what happened on the pokemon cards like it all sold out i'm like alright well let's double down i went big i put thirty feet of of wall space right next to my checkout i put glass counters in front and i said i wanna buy everything panini from the ace warehouse everything pokemon i contacted the distributors that send product directly to ace and they're like no we can't open an account it's too hard these days we're not giving accounts to anybody i'm like well guess what i have an account with you through ace hardware and so you have to sell to me and so i started getting cases of pokemon cases of panini twenty thirty cases of downtown cases of panini optic and it became my number one department and i was like that's industry interesting and like when we were doing like fifteen twenty k a week out of a ace hardware and i was like this is nuts dude like i'm doing as much sales on sports cards than i am on hardware in the store every single week so i looked at the barrel of like if i'm really gonna invest in this industry what do i gotta do and that's when bruce buff buffer approached me to open it's time pizza quickly pivoted out of that i'm like hey dude like no way in hell turned out bruce is a big hobby guy i went to his when i went to his house the amount of sealed products back from even like the seventies and eighties like he's has it all and so when i approached him with the idea he was just like i can i can back this one and so he called fanatics like quickly set up a call they told me no unless you come up with a really cool idea in an area that there is no hobby stores that are doing this pitched my ace hardware in san diego they said no pitched arizona because that's where i live they said no and then i looked on the map and i'm like wow there is not a single mvp store past the valley which is like thirty minutes south of me all the way to san francisco so i was like and i that's where i grew up in ventura county and so i was just like that is a seven hour stretch that have zero mvp stores and in calabasas is probably the one of the wealthiest per capita homes like as far as like money in that area so i was like well safe bet is build an event center in an area where there's a ton of money where there aren't really event spaces fanatics said if you shall build it we shall give you an account that was probably one of their last accounts that they ever gave to anyone i opened the outside of the name tom brady or canon collectibles or people with deep pockets and everybody assumes that like oh you have bruce buffer oh your dad owns domino's that like there's a ton of money backing this and i know i took a loan against my home i collateralized everything i brought in very minimal investors i think i tore i total money i raised was a hundred and twenty five thousand borrowed a hundred thousand from my father-in-law took a loan on a million dollars and said screw it you know like if we're gonna do this let's do this and even till this day like i haven't brought any new investors and now i'm finally with my sales where they are i'm approaching investors because i realize there's a lot of money in this industry and if i'm gonna compete with the big dogs then i need to have enough money to compete and so that's the that's the stage that i'm at right now because like people think that owning a card store is like like fun and games that you can order as much product as you want whenever you want eighty percent of my inventory is coming secondary market and that's a fact i clear through everything within the first couple days and then i'm sourcing i don't have the luxury to tell distributors no my dreams of what i wanna be of thirty five forty million annually means that i have to spend more with these distributors especially on the pokemon side and that's been my my biggest handicap right now because all my other industries i'm able to buy as much as i want whenever i want i just focus on sales this industry sales are easy it's all about price point how do you get that price point when you need volume how do you get that volume i gotta buy a lot of ysorts yu gi oh suzuki my little pony and i gotta i gotta get really good at selling all of that in order to get ten cases of pokemon those ten cases only generate ten thousand dollars of sales so like because it's so it's like but i know it's a long game and that's where the streaming and and the volume comes in for me and i'm like you know what if i can just turn five to ten percent at a million dollars a month and then i have twenty percent of my sales at like a fifty percent margin a hundred percent margin from distro i'll that's good enough math and so i just jumped in knowing how hard distribution is bruce has been awesome we've been killing it we just hit our first million dollar a month and i i know that doesn't compare to burbank or cards hq but like how fast we were able to get there with no marketing dollars no invent like i opened up with like no inventory dude like that was like it was tough but i mean i i had inventory but i i i sourced everything secondary market i had zero allocation just from tops and even tops like i was only getting one case at a time because that was my first year so i just hit my one year mark and now i'm getting like three to five cases of product at a time but like not to complain i'm so happy i fucking i i excuse me i i love tops don't get me wrong but like i have to spend like like this last week i spent like almost sixty thousand dollars on bowman and i don't get that product for like two weeks right and so like between that and then pokemon spending that much money and then on magic and lurkana and you're not spending it you're getting it and you're not getting it for two weeks later it's just a cash flow game man and i that's where i'm at i wanna i wanna dig into your operator mindset which i i'm like pulling away something that i find very interesting where it's you talked about the taking out loans you took about you know funding this business making sacrifices but you're doing this not traditionally you're doing this by creating this store that's not just like walk to the counter buy your box rip your packs like walk out the door like you're trying to keep people there you're trying to create space your esports are involved you want people in there having fun being a part of their weekend like how do you come from that big of a place of abundance where you're like making all of this sacrifice financially while also not pushing people to make up those sales instantly like where does that come from from you to like not be like a majority of operators in this space that are looking to turn inventory quick get the money and put it in it sounds like you are not just playing for the now but you're playing for the two to five to ten years from now i don't know i mean when i was so i've done a lot of things and i've stressed my wife out a lot with projects so when i did this one she i really wanted to do something with the family all my other businesses they can't contribute they can't be a part of it's really lonely so for this one like i just wanted a place for my kids to come and hang out and so i can come work and so i was like whenever i was building i was just like well what would i want and like you know like i have resources like where would i wanna hang out and like and so it was like when i was designing the place it was very like if anyone goes to our website it's time cards dot com or they go to our instagram it's time of gorda hills and we have a ton of different videos that showcase the store you'll see that like it's different and it feels different where that came from i don't know i just didn't wanna do it like everybody else like i and i i told you i don't know if i sit on this part or when we're before we were recording i can't compete with burbank i i won't compete with cards hq or blowout or the other guy steel city they have inventory that they have hoarded for a very long time and then cardshq is relatively new but everybody knows where the owner of cardshq's background from the stock market and he came in with big money and he went at it the way that i wish i could so having that thought process was like okay well like what's gonna cost me more filling eight thousand square feet full of product or event space well tvs are cheap couches are cheap basketball coupe's cheap simulator was expensive that cost me seventy thousand dollars so that was the expensive part the tables are cheap you know i bought a lot of material from ace hardware figured that out and then i'm like i just gotta get it open once i get it open because nobody believed the concept i'm like i told my family and like i told my family and friends they're like what are you talking about like a card store simulators eight thousand square feet and the one answer that everybody gave me every single time why don't you just do it smaller like what's the risk like why why and i'm like i i can't do this if i'm gonna do it like everybody else and i and i have to kill myself on a situation like i know my abilities and i know how good i am with my employees i'm like i take care of my people that's like my my number one focus and and our guiding principle from domino's is always take care of your customers the customer is always right take care of the customer and they're gonna make sure they take care of you and when we have a product right what am i selling i'm selling tops i'm selling pokemon wizards of wizard of the coast right so how am i gonna separate myself when i'm selling the same product as everyone else and if everybody else is selling the same product then it becomes about price point and trustability well how do i become a destination too and connect that whole thing to where like i we want to buy from its time and then i'm gonna bring the digital aspect i'm gonna bring a point system for all the people that come and do my tournaments if you come four weeks in a row every week you come we'll get you ten percent off if you come four weeks in a row before a pokemon release you will get msrp for that release and so like to really give back to the community to count to combat against scalpers but it's like the only other way to come in this industry not to sound like because i'm it's not transactional but you know let's not be like foolish here and expect to say like it doesn't the bills don't matter and the expectation on money doesn't matter if we really wanna drive the community and we really wanna give back to the community and and grow that environment of like long term longevity there still has to be financials involved and so trying to combine those two was difficult but like coming into this industry without money i mean when i opened the store we had like i spent all the money on the business open with probably like zero in the bank account and then had to keep investing in the business like i had no showcases now i have fifteen showcases we didn't have much hobby product now we have a ton of hobby product i have a ton of back stock but i'm like when we opened i still owned the securities company i think it was thirty thousand i still own the simulator thirty thousand i was like slowly paying my debts as sales came in and like i'm very proud that we'd be able to figure it out and like get to where we are today without those like resources because we did it on the community and now the community is not gonna let us fail and like i'm very confident about that from our celebrity real friends to our local people that are are in just in love with us so that's why i in a nutshell i know i went in crazy spiral there but like to bring it all back in and and how we got here was i have a very big family background and i didn't have the money to compete against the big dogs so i had no choice but to figure out a different angle you said you said something when we were talking before we hit record that i thought was very bright in terms of trying to create a space that becomes a part of individuals' weekly daily workflow which is very hard to do it's really hard to manufacture that but if you are creating a space that is experienced forward and is safe for people and they aren't being pushed to spend money when they walk in the door you can begin to optimize for that i'm curious since you've opened the doors and you've observed as an owner walking around and seeing what people are talking about how they're experiencing its time like what are some of those observations do you feel validated at this point on the assumption that you had going into this thousand percent i i go in there like a spy most days and just like listen to the customers talk and they amount of dads and kids and sons and the coolest thing is when i see a dad bringing his daughter and like they're there for four or five hours and like like the mom knows like they're at a card store but it's like yeah it's time and they're just hanging out and i got my little pony and pokemon for any of the gen like we have toys we have big toy distributors so i have like exclusive barbies exclusive like funkos and so it's there's a little bit for everybody but the validity comes is when i see people there two to three times a week you know they could say how awesome it is but then all of a sudden i get an email from the mom saying hey like this is my son's favorite place like how can i close that back room and have a birthday party so we probably had like in our first year probably fifteen events from birthday parties to like baseball trophy ceremonies to watch parties we've had a few draft nights for fantasy football in that backroom so we've had a few surprise birthday parties so that was pretty cool so the validity is there and it gave me more fuel on like what the next door needs to be and to say that it's time the first location is like a huge success i'm very proud of it but i know what the next door is gonna look like and it's gonna be like four times bigger four times the capacity more i wanna make it like a true a true true rec center like the old school ymca but like not ymca does that make sense i i hear you i would imagine like but what but what the ymca so when we grew up in the nine like eighties nineties yep when i say ymca the ymca was a mecca or a grounds where families went it was a safe place it was a safe haven to have those relationships to hang out so when i say ymca i don't mean it like oh workout because now ymca is a is a gym it's like a baby center it's like not the idea but the the premise of what it used to be the idea of what it used to be is what i wanna be in in the modern day where we can combine the virtual world with the modern world and put it together so that's where if you look at our store we are live streaming we live stream yeah but we live stream inside the store so we have an octagon right when you walk in and that's where we live stream our sports you go to the pokemon room right there also they're live streaming so when you're watching the stream you can actually go and enjoy it with the streamers and then you could watch the breakers break the break so you could actually be part of the break like right then and there and so like everybody else is like streaming inside of their offices or you know random ass like garage like no no no our streams showcase the stores we have multiple cameras where the streamer can hit the button and show the wax show the basketball room show the sports the pokemon room and with the virtual sports simulators and the xboxes it's taking the kids away from their homes bringing them back into a facility with their friends with their dads like again seeing fathers and sons and daughters and mothers bonding again and taking them out of just like in their rooms on their phones that's when i know we won that's how that's how i know we did it you mentioned that just from your other lines of work you are big on people managing people obviously like you can create as sick a space as possible with awesome technology free whatever but it doesn't really matter unless you've got really good people running the show that are you know able to share information educate you know create that environment that you're looking to as the owner of the space like how do you think about bringing the right people on your team to help you run the store like how do you what's your philosophy how do you think about hiring and onboarding and and that yeah i mean passion you know like if if i'm talking to you for the first time we're talking and i'm not seeing a love for this industry that's like step one okay no passion no love and then work ethic you know i can take a dull person as long as they're a really hard worker those are my like two on the tangibles that i will never break good people that have good energy along with like hard work ethic past that you know i could teach you how to use a scanner i could teach you how to use an app but i can't i can't i can't reraise someone those damages are are done at a young age through through through adulthood by the time you come to me i i don't have time to be that kind of mentor now you're a good person you have good work ethic i will give you the time of day for every day of my life you know like i i will ride you through and then you know not talk shit about domino's but yeah i i've seen a lot of employees come through and work twenty years in their life and they retire in the industry with nothing to show for it so all my people that i brought on as you've learned through the startup industry you have to give them a piece of the pie and you have to give them something to work for and work towards and understand that if they work hard they'll get a piece of it and so all my leaders i have like four five directors each one has specific focuses one's for rebuying one's streaming one's shipping one's compliance he's a a lawyer and then the other guy is a floor manager and so each one of them are incentivized through the sales channels so streaming gets bonus down on streaming the flipper gets a percentage of what he flips compliance is gets equity shares different levels and and of these guys three of them i've known since high school one of them i've known since i was five a lot of trust there actually four of the guys are from high school no shit five of the guys are from high school i'm counting them i got eighteen staff so like everybody says don't work with employees i mean don't work with your friends i'm just like dude if you're getting if you had an awesome opportunity to give your friend you gotta give it to them it's up to them if they're gonna f it up it's not on me like if they're gonna mess it up like it is what it is but like i could sleep good at night giving them an opportunity and so they all understand the core principle and they all know what's on the line for me and when you have like people that not only know your parents but i i saw where they grew up and i can call other moms and say what the fuck is your son doing sorry podcast you're good what is your son doing here it changes the dynamics of like how fast i can move all my success in my previous companies and the reason why i cannot have to focus on domino's so heavily and not have to focus on ace hardware so heavily is because i i spent the time with the people and the relationships ahead of time in order to take my foot off the pedal with them because they i know how they think they know how i think we're all on the same page we're all on the same mission we all know what to do there's complete transparency and complete communication with supported systems and where people mess up is that they focus too much on the results and not so much on the systems so if you give your employees a friend a brother a cousin a random person off the street clear expectations with systems of support and then you enforce the systems did you do your opening checklist did you do your closing checklist did you do the forms did you follow the procedure then with that clarity and that level of support if the employee is choosing not to follow through regardless of who it is family friend cousin coworker doesn't give a shit who it is it's not personal anymore i currently have an employee that is not putting the amount of hours i've known this guy forever i'm not gonna lie to you he's not holding him as a hand in the bargain i'm just gonna let him know hey dude you're only putting x amount of hours why do you think that's okay what do you expect me to do it's been six weeks of this you know it's not right and if that relationship falls apart from that point forward that's not on me and so when you show that kind of support for your people they know that all they gotta do is come up with eighty percent of the plan come to me for the last ten percent if shit goes wrong or the last ten ten twenty i'm i'm a ninety percent guy i'm never gonna wait to a hundred so let's get to that ninety percent and let's go live let's launch the idea that ten percent is the unknown let's not get to a hundred or we're not gonna get there when you give your when you give your employees that level of support love and care they know that shit goes wrong they're not gonna get thrown under the bus that give them the comfort to truly take care of the customers the way they need to take care of the customers you take care of the customers this customer is in return and could take care of you and so it's like a holistic approach when everybody's like culture culture culture culture what does culture mean well culture starts with me and how i treat my people and if every time they call me and i'm a asshole a complete asshole or a dick or short or pissed off or whatever the top is there's that expectation is gonna be held downwards and then they're gonna treat their employees that way and their employees are gonna be frustrated and pissed off not loving their business and treat their customers that way and so that's like i guess i ten minute spiel of how that works but like yeah yeah no i i i love it i love just like the accountability that you're displaying dude i wanna i wanna i wanna spend real fast like as far as systems like when people like oh like what do you mean by systems like i built i don't know if you can see it but i built this app so it's like it's time app so here's like the home page and it gives a connectivity to like every single vendor all fifteen to twenty vendors report on here so i have my full sales my event schedule my overall sales i have a chat chatbot that i can ask anything about the company i have over here all my different like repack stuff all the different things if they wanna go and see what whatnot shows here's all the whatnot shows if they go on here it shows the total sales and then i it starts pricing up product for them like the connectivity like okay if you wanna go inventory reports or sorry i know you're busy and we gotta go but inventory like here's my inventory channels okay you wanna see tcg player like here's all my preorders here's all the stuff if you wanna scroll down here's the active inventory on tcg player so like that's the kind of shit that like i'm gonna write it in crayons you mother truckers and we're not gonna look at it we're not gonna give a reason for my employee to say i couldn't do this because of this take away the excuses write it in crayons be clear clear systems take care of your people and it's like a anyways this this is you you've you've took my next thought out as we're kinda rounding the corner on this conversation i i wanted to dig into like your systems thinking and you were just before i asked the question like here this is how i do it but i i want you to talk just as we're closing this out about just like the importance of having those systems in place for everything you do i think a lot of the times we have these ideas of building these businesses in the space and we love cars and we wanna just go a hundred miles an hour but we don't take the time to build the right infrastructure and the systems in place that not only hold people accountable but help us financially as owners and operators like maybe this is what i wanna close with just a message out this is we've got owners operators people who wanna work in the space listening what advice do you have to individuals out there listening regarding like the time they should spend and the why behind building systems behind their businesses a lot of people will just throw systems and like think that oh you know we we realized this in the early days my my partner andrew who's my compliance guy and i'm kind of my ceo he kept making systems and he's like why aren't people doing it and i'm like andrew well is there follow through and is your systems actually realistic within the situations so you want them to do this buying form and you want them to buy all this shit and you want them to fill it out well do they have time because if you overwhelm them then they're not gonna take care of the customer and so yesterday i rolled out a repacking form and my guy was like dude like there's just too much information to expect us to do this okay well i i stripped it down and so you have to be willing to like you know like we i'm i'm fortunate because of domino's pizza they are the best with systems they give you the most analytics from a franchise level ace is kind of like mid ground like they kind of give you shit but like they don't wanna tell you what to do where a domino's is like this is what you do this is how you do it this is how you do it so for us as a domino's franchisee and how we scaled it was through systems and foolproof systems that like we made sure was tested and approved by our employees almost made by our employees so a lot of leaders they're like you because like you know every podcast they go like system this system that system this but what the does that mean well it's making sure you're giving your employees you're telling them hey this is what we need to do this is how we're gonna get there this is my idea where did i go wrong with it and you bring them as part of the creativity you don't let them slow it down and you still roll it out but you always leave that communication on like why aren't you doing it what are we doing where is the system falling apart why isn't this working at some point it's gonna start really murky you get a second phase and then you get your final phase as soon as everybody's sitting at the table is like you agree you agree you agree you agree we're all agreeing alright dude then i don't wanna hear shit we're on the same page and you're gonna do it and if it doesn't work then we'll go back to the drawing board everybody's cool nobody got such to say cool let's rock and so like having that level of like a lot of times when again we did it at the early days supervisor for domino's we want you to go in the morning and every morning we want you to send this report and after this report you wanna do this and after that you need to go on every single store and you gotta submit a report of how your visit was that doesn't work too much bogged down if you can build systems that make your employees' life easier they will they will do it but if you're building systems that slows down operations no good no one's excited everybody sees that as a burden they see it as you don't trust me no no no hey the system here is gonna make your life easier this is why including the why is the most important part of any part of the business why do i want you to put forty pepperoni on a large pizza because of food cost why do i need only feb forty pepperoni on a three topping well if you put a four topping pizza on a pan pizza the crust won't cook if the crust doesn't cook the inner part of it is still a gel if somebody with diabetes or sick or heart condition or can't get sick and can't go to the hospital eats raw dough with raw bread and raw this they might go to the hospital do you wanna kill someone no make sure you only put forty pepperonis four ounces of cheese make sure that thing's cooked all the way and you won't kill anybody and so like i know that's like a exaggeration but sometimes like you have to go there when you're dealing with my new ridiculous things well cards i need you to put this in the system if you don't put this card in the system that goes to shopify one day i might have way much slippage way too much theft if i have too much theft i'm gonna have to shut down the business and you lose your job mhmm clear good good good good let's roll and so like yeah i i i've been talking a lot about individuals from outside industries bringing their operational background and skills into the sports card industry and odae i don't think there's a better example of one of those instances than you and what you just shared so it's been i'm i'm really glad we got a chance to meet and i'm glad we got a get a chance to share this conversation with the listeners but fired up for you fired up for the it's time team and definitely excited to watch the growth and expansion thanks man i really appreciate your time and and you never know we might have a second follow-up call sooner than later.

i appreciate his willingness to talk about the decisions and the work behind what he's building if something in this episode make you think of a process in your own business spend time with it all week ask people doing the work what would help them do it better i wanna thank you the loyal listener of hobbyjobs i appreciate it love the feedback i wanna thank bcw supplies for supporting hobbyjobs make sure you check out the link in the show notes to subscribe to the newsletter new episodes of hobbyjobs each and every week here on the stacking slabs network until then happy building take care we'll talk to you soon