welcome back to hobby jobs i'm brett mcgrath here on the stacking slabs network this show exists to support the people building the sports card industry whether you own a business work inside one or are trying to figure out how to get started i want these conversations to help you make better decisions man i am having a lot of fun building out hobby jobs i am a builder and this has been one of the most satisfying projects that i have wrapped my arms around this year so much great feedback there's been awesome evolution i'm bringing in collectors i'm bringing in business owners to talk about their experiences and share it with you today we do not have another conversation it's just me going solo there are going to be some new operator conversations coming very very soon i am in the background planning those and i can't wait to share those with you hobby jobs is presented by my good friends at bcw supplies i appreciate their support of this platform and the people doing the work to move our industry forward i caught a headline this week and i want to talk about it i wanna start with a story that connects the business of sports to the business of collecting arena club has become the philadelphia seventy sixers' official trading card platform the team says the partnership will introduce fans to arena club through its social channels and game day touch points think about the starting point for that customer they're following their favorite basketball team maybe they're watching a player they love they're already paying attention collecting gets introduced inside an experience that they care about that's a different path into the hobby than searching for a card you've already decided to buy the business opportunity is to turn some of that existing attention into a new relationship with collecting and a team partnership gives a platform an introduction it would otherwise have to earn on its own there is also the element of trust being transferred a fan sees a company alongside their team and may feel more comfortable checking it out that's my read on the opportunity it doesn't tell us how many people will become customers or how many will stay fanatics has been very clear about wanting to bring fans closer to teams and players they love its nba and players association partnership brought fully licensed topps basketball cards back into that relationship arena club is pursuing the same broad opportunity from a different position fanatics has the card license arena club has a platform where people can grade buy sell trade and manage cards that distinction matters being the sixers official trading card platform is a team partnership the title doesn't make arena club the manufacturer of licensed nba cards but you can see why a company would want to build around the attention being brought to collecting in that sense i think arena club is drafting off the broader push to connect fandom and cards the push is creating more places for a a fan to encounter collecting for the hobby jobs audience there's a useful question here where are the people you want to serve already spending their time you might not have the budget to work with an nba franchise you might have a relationship with a local sports podcast fan group or a business that brings together the customers you want to reach the size is different the work is similar give people a reason to take interest and make the next step easy to understand the next step is where i wanna spend a little more time arena club prominently offers slap packs those are digital reveals backed by physical graded cards its pack pages show possible cards and hit rates the platform also promotes offers that let customers sell those cards back i can understand the argument for this experience opening something is familiar it's entertaining a fan can get into cards without first learning how to evaluate a raw card or navigate a show floor a graded card and a place to keep or trade it remove some friction and surprise has always been part of opening packs a digital reveal doesn't create that behavior from scratch the question on the other side is what happens when the chance of a valuable outcome becomes the main reason to participate a person might learn to care about the card they might also learn to open check the offer sell and try again the second pattern can resemble gambling behavior even though a physical collectible is involved i'm talking about the experience in the incentives here we also shouldn't assume every sixers activation sends a fan straight into a paid repack the announcement describes several ways to introduce the platform my question is about the first purchase that follows the introduction does that customer understand the ordinary outcome as clearly as the exciting one can they see a path to collecting a favorite player without continually buying another chance those questions apply across the entire industry a traditional box or break can create the same tension i'm interested in whether we are helping people develop an interest that survives an opening that disappoints them that's a business question because eventually you need a reason for the customer to come back track what happens after the first experience do new customers buy a specific card do they ask questions participate in the community or return a month later are they learning what they like a partnership can be the introduction the experience afterwards determines whether you have earned that relationship and that brings us to today's topic in a lot of hobby businesses the person making the introduction is the owner people trust you they enjoy spending time with you then the business grows and you have to figure out how someone else can carry that relationship forward hobbyjobs is sponsored by bcw supplies for forty five years bcw has helped retailers wholesale partners stay stocked with storage and display accessories collectors trust backed by dependable fulfillment and consistency to keep shelves stocked and margin strong learn more at bcw supplies dot com backslash wholesale this week's operator note was letting go of the paycheck i wanna take that conversation a step further today you spend years building something alongside your professional job eventually you decide the business deserves your full attention that decision changes your responsibilities you have to think about how the business will support your life and as it grows the lives of other people i spent four years building stacking slabs without taking a dollar in fact it cost me money i was paying a producer to make sure the quality was high i viewed it as a passion project over time the vision that i had got bigger and i had to decide whether i was willing to make room for it there's another decision that follows when the business starts working are you willing to let other people do the work the customers have associated with you that can be uncomfortable you built a relationship you know the regulars you have a feel for what works a customer saying they only want to deal with you can feel like a compliment it can also make it harder to build a team josh o'daniel gave me a lot to think about on this topic josh owns odiz sports cards we spoke with him this week on an episode of passion of profession sponsored by my good friends at ebay and his experience gives us a practical look at how a business grows beyond its founder he worked at ups for eighteen years he told me he stayed there while the card business grew and he left in april of twenty twenty five he had been building the business for about five years before making the move his wife lizzie was central to that process she handled sorting and shipping early helped them think about decisions and helped set the pace they were comfortable with josh described nights when he streamed until three or four in the morning and had to work the next day eventually doing both stopped being sustainable there's research that adds some context to this path a study published by the academy of management journal found higher business survival among people who started while keeping a day job and later moved on to full time self employment compared with people who moved directly from employment to self employment the researchers point to learning during the overlap as an explanation it isn't a participation for how long you should wait it does challenge the idea that moving slowly means you you aren't serious you can use that period to learn whether customers return and whether the work can be done reliably you can learn what the business actually needs from you by that time josh and i spoke he estimated the team had grown to about twenty two people that's approximate count but it tells you how much has changed the question had moved beyond whether josh couldn't make a living opening cards he now had to help other people deliver an experience his customers recognized and i wanna be careful about what we take from that growth a team of twenty two tells us something about the size of the operation it doesn't tell us the profit what we can learn from his experience is how he distributes the work and protects the customer experience as more people get involved your business might accomplish that with three people the right size depends on the work and the economics if you are considering the leap pay attention to that part being busy is one signal a repeatable business is a different signal before you add a salary or another commitment understand what is bringing customers back and what it costs to serve them one of the biggest steps in josh's business was the first time someone else appeared on stream his name was chris he he runs their baseball channel from florida before chris josh had been the only person customer saw on camera i asked josh how he handled that change he said he had to get comfortable letting someone else express themselves and be their own person while fitting how the business operates he simply put they don't have to be a clone and i think that sentence matters if you're building a business around your personality it's tempting to believe the next person needs your delivery your reactions or sense of humor but imitation can make someone uncomfortable on camera customers can feel that too your job is to identify which parts of the experience need to be consistent a new host might talk about different sports they might be more reserved they can still explain what someone is buying treat people with respect and handle an open question honestly those are standards and those are standards you can teach and observe your personality has more room to vary mailchimp has a useful example in its public writing it separates the company's voice from the tone used in a particular situation the tone can change to fit how the customer is feeling while their underlying voice remains recognizable for hobby businesses the application is pretty straightforward you can have a different you can have different people communicating without making every conversation feel unrelated to the brand a shipping problem needs a different response than a great pull you can be entertaining during a stream and direct when a customer needs an answer you can start by writing down what a customer should be be able to count on with any member of your team you can keep it specific you can keep it specific enough that someone else can use it tomorrow for example if you are selling a break explain the format before asking for a purchase if you don't know an answer say so and identify who will follow-up if an order is delayed tell the customer what happened and when they'll hear from you again communication solves a lot of problems you can show new team members the situations let them hear your explanation walk through difficult customer challenges and messages talk about the judgment behind your decisions and responses you are giving them more than words to repeat you're helping them understand how you make those decisions josh told me he watched chris's streams more closely early on he wanted to see how chris interacted and whether the community would receive him well over time he became more comfortable and that suggests a useful way to introduce someone new spend time together on camera explain why you've brought them into the business and give them a defined part of the experience to own and review it together afterwards let customers get to know them through their knowledge and interest a person who loves baseball can create a relationship around baseball and doesn't have to depend on being a version of the founder you don't overreact to a single quiet stream compare similar formats and time slots listen to customer feedback if something needs to re improve coach the behavior owners are coaches there's also a responsibility that owners have if you ask someone to own something like a stream a section of the store a part of the process in your operation give them the information support and authority that they need otherwise you're asking them to represent a promise they can't reliably reliably keep josh estimated he now spends about eighty percent of his time behind the scenes and twenty percent of the time on camera he still enjoys streaming he wants to keep doing it but his work has expanded to include product purchasing supplies scheduling and and the other decisions that keep the business moving this is where personality led brands can get into trouble the customer sees a familiar face and assumes the whole operation is working the owner may be quietly holding everything together through memory and a lot of extra hours josh gave me a very concrete example of work underneath a stream he said their ebay breaks typically ship the next day he also described messaging coverage shared across employees and himself he wants customers to feel confident about what happens after the opening those service commitments give the team something specific to work towards if you run a small business you don't need to copy their staffing or promise the next day shipping you do need to promise your team can deliver say you tell your customer orders go out three business days who is responsible for checking that a customer usually doesn't care who completes each step they care about the cards they paid for and that they arrive when someone says they're going to arrive you can start with the handoff choose the work that repeatedly comes back to you and slows everything else down maybe it's answering the same shipping question maybe it's preparing listings maybe it's checking an order before it leaves document this it's important to document these steps then let other people do it while you observe the uncomfortable part comes when the people you're working with finish it differently than you would look at the result before correcting the method does it meet the standards that's a question i think we all need to keep asking ourself you gotta give people you're working with the runway to do their job in a way that might be a little bit different than you but garners the same result i think before you hire try looking at the last couple weeks on your calendar how much time went to the work to find an i'm gonna redo that how much time went to work that another person could learn how much went to the decisions that actually needed you then ask what you would do with the hours a hire could return if you can't answer that the job may need a clear purpose if the answer is that you'll finally buy inventory carefully build a reliable schedule or spend time on important customers you have a starting port for point for evaluating that next role check the business check the finances assume that you'll free up time from it and make the hire if it makes sense for you the hobby job i wanna highlight this week is sports content creator with leighton sports cards in florida the listing covers short and long videos on camera work and coverage of live breaks store activity and events it calls for collaboration across the business and someone who can represent the brand with approachable personality that fits today's conversation a creator can help customers get to know more of the people inside of the business they can make knowledge and experiences visible that the founder doesn't have time to capture alone if this role interests you think about the evidence you bring use a portfolio you could include in a clear explanation for a new collector in an interview that helps someone else tell their story show that you can choose an angle prepare for it and finish the piece explain who you made it for and why they would care being comfortable on camera is helpful making another person comfortable can be just as valuable you might be interviewing a staff member who understands a product deeply but has never spoken into a microphone the opportunity is to help their knowledge reach customers in a way that feels natural to them and appropriate for the brand for business owners that is a useful way to think about the hire be clear about which work the creator will own and what access they need from the rest of the team give them feedback tied to the audience and the purpose of the content the listing is in the hobby jobs newsletter link is in the show notes to subscribe it is free join the party join the fun i wanna leave you with something that you can use this week choose one reoccurring responsibility you've been reluctant to hand off i have a lot on my plate i've got a whole laundry list and a vision for where i want these responsibilities to go as stacking slab scale so i'm actively going through this exercise and i hope what i'm going through can be helpful to you this responsibility should matter to the customer it should be small enough to learn without putting the entire business on someone else's shoulder describe the promise attached to that responsibility if it's a customer message what should the customer know after receiving it if it's a stream what should the buyer understand before spending money walk through a real example with the person you want to own it have them explain how they would handle it give them room to make a decision and agree on when you'll review the work together pay attention to what happens when you're not immediately available if it's a every small question still needs an answer find the missing information or authority work on that before adding another responsibility and if you're working towards your first job in the industry look for this kind of problem ask an operator where the work gets stuck build something that helps them see how you would make it easier you can love being the person customers know josh still wants to be on camera growing a team doesn't require giving up everything you enjoy about the business it does require making room for other people to build trust too the arena club partnership shows how a business can earn an introduction through a relationship people already care about josh's experience shows some of the daily work required to carry a relationship beyond the person who started it that's what i want hobbyjobs to help us understand how do we build businesses that people want to work for buy from and keep coming back to i appreciate josh for letting me inside his business and talking through what he has learned you can find that conversation on the stacking slabs network passion and profession and thank you to bcw supplies for supporting hobby jobs if this conversation gave you something to think about send it to someone building in the industry subscribe to hobbyjobs newsletter hit the damn follow button and do all the things that will help this show get in front of new operators in this industry that we all love appreciate your support appreciate you tuning in happy building we'll talk to you soon