Back with the next installment of Vaulted. I've been really enjoying doing this series. The first three episodes were all about my experience using the PSA vault.

I talked about, you know, sending cards for grading, keeping cards in the vault, sending cards to eBay, having real cards sell, and getting real money back, and just the all the workflows and the time savings that it sent me and just felt like a natural progression.

I was by myself doing the first three episodes that we start bringing in members of the PSA team, and probably no better person to kinda kick off these conversations with the other than Jacob who leads up the PSA vault, initiative.

He's the GM and the head of the PSA vault. And so we're just gonna dive in, learn a little bit more about just background on the vault and then, what he's seeing, feedback, and then vision, anything else.

But without further ado, Jacob, welcome. How are you? Doing good. I don't know that there's no better person.

I'm sure there's there's some better people in the company, that your listeners wanna hear from, but happy to be here. Really excited to have this conversation and, you know, talk about all things all things Vault.

You know, I'm excite I'm personally excited. I'm I'm I know my audience will be, I always like to say unlocking new characters when we have new individuals in and your is your first time.

So I'm really excited to to learn, from you and kinda hear what's going on, but maybe we'll kick it off by giving some context on you in your role, at PSA. How how did it all came to be? Kinda maybe share what you're responsible for.

Sure. So, it all started about three years ago. I think it was around the time of the national hosted in Atlantic City that the vault was announced and born, and that's when my journey started as well.

I came on at collectors to help grow the vault and create this product. And at that point, we really didn't know exactly what it was going to become or or, what it has become today.

But we thought that there was this opportunity where millions and millions of cards come through the PSA Building every year. Many of those cards are stored or sold or kept in personal collections.

There was like the the real question was, how can we service the collector beyond that grading moment, that great great reveal moment that everyone looks forward to once they hit their, you know, PSA 10?

What else can we do for them, to make the hobby safe, easy, and fun.

And that's where we started. And I think, you know, where we'll go in this conversation, Brett, I'm sure is how we got to today, where we're integrated with eBay and have, this program PSA offers, as an option for liquidity.

Really excited to to dive into all of that and and how we built, what we are today and and hopefully talk a little bit about where we'll be in three, five, even ten years from now.

What maybe your background and professional career Sure.

Then jumping into, joining the team, like, did was did were there things based on your previous experience that made you kind of the right fit for, this role and the role you're doing now, or is it just one of those things where opportunity presented itself based on business needs and customer demands and, you know, you had a skill set in place that made you kinda the right fit to to lead this initiative.

Maybe talk a little bit about that. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I think it starts with I'm a collector, and and I'm a collector at heart.

I've been a collector for, my whole life. My collector story is that, my uncle bought me the 1989 Topps baseball set on my first birthday, and, I've continued collecting ever since then.

So my heart lives in the collecting world, and my career has lived in the kind of sports tech startup world, where we're trying to solve problems for customers through technology.

And I've worked at, companies that created highlight reels for high school kids trying to make college teams.

I've worked with, NBA teams on draft preparation, and drove all of that through, kind of tech enablement. And this was a great next step to combine the collector passion with the startup passion, with the build something new.

And it's ideal because I get to do it in a place that already has this machine of a business, in the grading side running over here.

That is such a great advantage for us and and such a great source of supply. So to answer your question, I guess, it all just kind of came together.

It played to all of my passions and, hopefully, my skill set has served the company in, building it to building the vault in the marketplace that we've built, to the place that we've gotten to today.

I love this idea of, you know, PSA, obviously, one of the most well recognized brands in the hobby, is well known people sending their cards in every day for grading authentication, going on the website, pop reports, all of these things.

But, like, your job and your responsibility is kind of starting on the ground floor and building up something new.

So it's like a startup inside of a well established company. Does does it feel like you have this kinda startup feel feeling to it even though you're working for one of the biggest companies in the industry?

Absolutely. I mean, there's no probably no better example than, I've answered hundreds of support tickets.

I've put stuff in the vault away myself, you know, have walked that floor many, many times. It's scrappy, and that's what, you know, that is what startups are built on, again, with all of the advantages of of having PSA by our side.

So it has been a fantastic journey and challenge, for me personally and for the team. And, I'm just so excited to continue to operate in that way and see how big, we can actually build the the vault and marketplace businesses.

I I wanna maybe get into your day to day and kind of what it looks like, but I think I'd be remiss not to ask you when this opportunity and this, initiative came to life and you are involved, like, it it is inevitable that right now in the industry, the vaulting has become more popular.

There's vault it vaults in a dot a lot of different places.

Maybe how did you just in terms of canvassing the industry and seeing what other companies were doing, like, how did you look at what was the current state and what was happening?

And then maybe, like, how what PSA was providing could be, a little bit different, like, that competitive edge. Maybe share some perspective there.

Yeah. I think you always you know, anytime you're building a business, you look to competitors and and see what they're doing, and try to learn from what they've done, what's gone well, what hasn't gone well.

And I think, you know, at the time, it was PWCC, since acquired by Fanatics and has become Fanatics Collect. But, you know, they've built an impressive vault and, kind of self-service marketplace, over there.

And then on the other side, as we go further into our our journey here, you know, we start to learn more and more about these eBay consignment operations, these large consignment operators, that are selling millions of cards, per year.

And I think we've taken learnings from both of those business models, and then added in the advantage, and and twist of it's all connected to grading.

And 50 you know, millions and millions of cards are coming through grading every year.

And, how can, you know, how can we reduce friction in this overall grade to vault to sell workflow, that you've so well described in past episodes, Brett.

I love it. Yes. Tying back to grading and that it definitely, makes sense of kind of the reason why and and, maybe competitive differentiator amongst other vaults and services.

When you step in either to the New Jersey office or your home office, each and every day kind of working on this, startup initiative at PSA, I'm sure you mentioned support tickets, which we've if anyone has worked in the startup, space has definitely regardless of your role from CEO all the way down to intern, you've probably, answered support tickets, so that definitely resonated with me.

But maybe share some perspective on kinda what your day to day looks like. Yeah. I think the first thing is extreme lines of communication with our Vault team on the ground in Delaware.

So our Vault we have an office in, New Jersey for grading and an office in Santa Ana, California, as well as some international offices. But the vault is located in Delaware.

Not everyone realizes that, and I go down there quite often as well. But my day almost always starts with our team on the ground, and, it really that communication is really based around is everything safe?

Like, have we have we done our job in the last twenty four hours and made sure that everything that has hit our dock is, safely put away or safely in the process of being put away.

That's our core tenant at at the vault heart. Right? Is your items are safe with us. You trust us. That all trickles down from the PSA brand where your items are safe at PSA grading and you trust PSA grading.

So that's checkpoint number one every day is making sure that the operation is running smoothly and all of the, product and systems behind that operation are are up and running and and running the way that they're supposed to.

Second, you know, the second main checkpoint is making sure our customers are happy. So we talked about answering support tickets.

We have a a fantastic, in my opinion, support staff now that is, available basically twenty four seven, since we're always on kind of in this always on mentality with eBay. So I, you know, I check-in with that team.

I make sure that our customers are happy, and I still answer some of those tickets for usually the angriest folks that, think something has gone wrong or, and and we're almost always able to solve those issues.

But, you know, still talking to customers every day, hearing their feedback. That's how we grow. That's how we we get better is, listening to customers and and figuring out what they want, not trying to just project, what they may want.

So that's a huge part of my day to day. And then taking in that feedback and trying to be strategic with it, making sure we're thinking strategically about our operations, you know, everything from, is our building big enough?

Can we make improvements to move faster? All of these things. And then working cross functionally with teams like our, product and tech organization that are really building the user facing product that powers all of this.

So there's this whole operational side where the things are moving through our building, But that's all being represented digitally, and we wanna make sure that that experience is right for our customers as well.

The safety part, bullet one from you. I'm fascinated by the depths at when we're getting this off the ground, making prioritizing safety, obviously, making sure cards are safe.

That's, you know, the number one priority. What what does it look like in the early days when you've got this concept that's becoming into an idea, into this, product that you're going to be taking to market?

Like, how early in that process do you begin to kinda set those checkpoints in that those workflows and make sure you have the infrastructure in place to make sure that the millions of cards that are will eventually be coming in are are safe?

Yeah. I think, great question. And it really starts from day one. You know, we you can't open a vault without feeling really good about the stuff that's coming in being safe, being recorded properly, being tracked properly.

All of that is, you know, we consider table stakes. So, from the early days, we were working on creating the right systems. We have a robust warehouse management system.

We have, professionals that have worked in that space, that worked with us to make sure that we built the right thing. We have a number of auditing processes as items come into the building, items leave the building.

And even if they're just sitting there for years, we're, you know, we are checking and cycle counting those items constantly, to make sure that everything is where the system says it is. It is not damaged. It is stored correctly.

It is safe. So to answer your question, Brett, that was table stakes for us, and and almost all of those systems and processes were built for the early days of launch because we didn't feel that we could go to market without them.

The, I I love the collector feedback along the way and, you know, just being a user myself and it being integrated into the PSA experience on the app is, been fun.

I haven't had to really click around. It's just naturally where I've always gone.

When you set out and you do something like this, inevitably, you're gonna get feedback from collectors, and going to consider all that feedback and see if you get a string of the same sort of feedback, and then you bring it to a conversation, then maybe you implement a change based on all of the feedback.

Maybe talk about that feedback a little further and anything that you've heard since launch from collectors that, you know, might have surprised you or caused you to make some changes from the original, like, v one of the vault.

Sure. Yeah. A lot of that feedback is captured by our support folks or people that are talking to customers.

And, yeah, we've aimed to build the right feedback loops to make sure that I'm hearing that feedback, and and hearing it in a way that is data driven so that we're truly focusing on the most important things and and some of those trends, that you mentioned.

I think one that stands out as and it wasn't even direct feedback, but more customer behavior that shaped the way that we think about this business is, as we've built the vault, we've been consistently connected to the grading pipeline as you've described in past episodes, Brett.

But we've also noticed, especially as we've turned on our eBay integration, that more and more people wanna send us their stuff that's at home.

And, yeah, we hear that through through feedback loops, but we also just saw it because more stuff started showing up at the dock. And the return address was not from PSA grading.

It was from Brett's house or Jake's house. So we've really leaned into that, and we've tried to, again, adopt our our thinking of how do we make this as frictionless as possible for the customer.

And, ultimately, where we've landed is, unlike sending an order to grading, you can actually just put your stuff in a box if you're comfortable with it and, send it to your vault address.

Everyone has a unique vault address with a unique nine digit vault ID that can be found on their psacard. com, account management tab.

And if you have if you're like me and have 10 or 20 or a 100 slabs sitting on your desk at times and you just haven't gotten around to doing anything with them, that's those are great candidates to package up nicely, put in a box, and send to us, and we do all the work.

We catalog it all.

It all goes through the same, you know, the same inbound process as a PSA graded card a card coming from PSA grading does, and has all the same capabilities to sell on eBay, receive PSA offers, keep for storage for your PC, all of the above.

Let's hit on the, eBay piece. I remember seeing the press release drop, and it washed over me for a second.

And then I, in my mind, I started to think about, wait a minute. Like, if this is going there, and then I can just click a button here. And then I was just like, oh my gosh.

As a, busy dad of you know, with two little ones who's working and has only so much time in the day, it's like, well, this will cut out all of these steps that I used to take, and now I can just hit a button and list these cards, especially back from grading.

Maybe talk about just, like, the eBay partnership and how that's gone so far, for you and PSA and things you're you're seeing, just areas that you've maybe modified, changed, or, yeah, just get into the eBay of it all.

Yeah. The eBay partnership was obviously huge.

And I think, the day that we announced it, technically, you still couldn't actually list to eBay, but, immediately, we saw people kind of do that mental math that you just talked about, Brett, and start to send more cards to the vault, whether it's from grading or directly from their home as preparation for what was to come, you know, a month or two later.

EBay has so many eyeballs. They've built such a great brand.

They've been such great partners. And, in integrating them, I think we've done our job, again, in serving collectors and and trying to make this whole collectible journey as easy and as safe and as fun as possible.

The easiest way I always put it or or my sales tactic if I'm, talking to somebody on the floor is, like, never get a paper cut sealing a bubble mailer again.

Like, just stop going through that, that pain. I don't think anyone actually enjoys, you know, putting together bubble mailers and slapping labels on them and, making the trip to the to the post office.

All of that's taken care of and more. But, and it really is as simple as, let us do the work and ultimately get paid, the same or or similar or even better rates in some cases than what you're going to get selling on eBay or yourself.

The so some things that I noticed just in the evolution, and I would love, like, maybe to get your feedback on, like, implementation of these things.

One thing was, like, out of the gates, it was, like, just auctions. And now you can actually list from a buy it now perspective, which I'm more of an auction guy, but I get it right if you wanna do buy it now.

One of the other things I and I don't know, like, if this is setter yet, maybe over a a a certain dollar value, but just, like, auction like, automatic payment, like, if if you're going through an auction and you have a card listed, like, over a certain day, maybe seven days or whatever, like, you're automatically gonna get paid out on on that item, based on a certain threshold.

These are just, like, some of the observations I've made. As a user. Maybe talk about those and any others just, post launch that you have been adding, to kinda enhance the vault experience for for users.

Yeah. I think all of those kind of new features, as we've as we've rolled that those things out have been driven by data.

And and the advantage of partnering so closely with eBay is, you know, we've built a relationship where we can share some of this data and we can make really informed decisions about how to prioritize, different different projects, different features.

Auction, for example, is, in in the graded card space is still a huge driver of sales on on eBay. So we started with auction and gave people that option for, really quick liquidity.

As you mentioned, we've layered on the buy it now format, you know, in, I think, late December or early January, and more recently have added buy it now with the ability to accept offers.

And all of that, again, driven through having a great partnership with eBay and being able to say, okay.

X amount of people sell through auction, but x plus y people will, adopt if you add bin, and another cohort will adopt if you add offers.

And we wanna continue to build out that full suite of tools so that our users have, you know, similar levels of optionality that they do if they were selling themselves.

That's that's the goal of the platform is again, we do the work. You have all of the options. Similarly, when it comes to autopay, you know, eBay has been an advocate in, trying to help their sellers reduce nonpayment rates.

We've had a lot of success working with them in reducing our own nonpayment rate and things like autopay over a certain threshold or being able to limit the number of times low feedback buyers, for instance, can bid or win an item have all helped us, iterate towards not quite a a 0% nonpayment rate, but getting closer and closer to, you know, to that world.

Is there just in this journey and this can be p PSA Vault plus eBay or just PSA Vault on itself.

Just in your experience in working on this, has there been any moments in that have just stood out to you that maybe has shifted or shaped the way that, you and the PSA team are thinking about vault services?

I think one that stands out, and it's it's good timing because we're we're into July now, is, last year's national. And just how many you know, we had just announced the eBay partnership.

We had, accepted vault submissions at the national the year before, and had, you know, had quite a bit of of success, I would say, for, what the product could, serve people with at that time.

But last year's national in having just announced this eBay partnership and having just turned on the integration where you could list the auction, we saw just great traction, at the booth.

And I think that told us, you know, two things.

One that we kind of already knew, which is, again, eBay is a beast, and, they're gonna drive, tons of eyeballs and and people in our direction, and that's why this partnership is, as successful as as it has been.

But the other thing that it revealed is that and the grading team has gone through this as well is that, people don't always like to put their stuff in the mail to send it to grading or to the vault.

And, having a presence, and a clear and defined presence at the national and other events, has been a key strategic change that we've made here in 2025.

The PSA concierge team is doing, I think, over a 100 events this year, including, drop offs at our own offices, local drop off events as well as all, you know, kind of the major show circuit.

And all of those, we've decided to accept vault submissions and eBay consignment submissions and all of those really based on what we saw at the national last year and what we heard directly from customers, which is, hey.

I wanna hand you my stuff directly and know that it's it's, you know, being well taken care of. And, it's just another opportunity for us to lean into the we'll do the work.

You know, you have no stress, type of environment that we're trying to set up. A lot of this, I'm I'm hearing, like, what your the feedback loop and what you're hearing from collectors and your the importance of that.

And you mentioned, obviously, we've talked about support tickets a lot and gathering the data and figuring out is there opportunities to prioritize certain things.

I know it's still early, but is has there been any, trending feedback that you've received that kinda has stuck with you?

Whether it's, let's go take action on this right now or let's this is so important that let's sit on this and, like, build a plan for how we implement this because this is what our customers want.

Is there anything that stands out in your mind?

Yeah. I mean, there's countless stories. Yeah. We kind of prioritize things, in in two buckets. There's major projects, which is, like, the level of an eBay launch or or a major eBay feature.

That takes more time to really vet the opportunity, you know, work with our product org, get it on their road map, and and make sure that we deliver the right thing.

And there then there's, like, the more instant or weekly, level feedback loop of, hey.

Here's a thing that's happening. Here's a thing that a lot of customers are are talking about, whether it's directly through our support lines or on social media. Let's go fix this right away.

One one example of that early on or or when we launched in, buy it now was, we in order to change your price, on on your buy it now listing, right now you have to pull down the the listing and then relist it, which is is a point of friction.

So, we're gonna fix that. We're gonna we're gonna change that where you can just change the price directly.

But we were also experiencing an issue where when that was happening, the listing wasn't pop the second time the listing wasn't populating perfectly. You know, title was off or or minor things were wrong in the listing.

And that's that's one of those types of feedback, loops that we try to solve within a week or even within a day, to make sure that our customers are getting full value from the product that we're offering.

Like I said, larger projects are, vetted out and and take longer to build, But we have a really exciting road map ahead of us.

I I, we can talk a little bit about that. I probably shouldn't or can't reveal everything, but, super excited about what's coming in the back half of the year.

Yeah. We need the, little disclaimer when you're at a conference and you see, like, the visionary statements that's escaping me to make sure.

Yeah. Well, let's get into that. Before we we do that and you're, I wanna maybe what maybe just get, like, what surprised you the most so far?

Like, is it can be positive. It can be negative. But, like, anything that stands out to you that maybe you deem is this is kinda unexpected but kinda cool, or or this is something maybe not so cool that we need to focus in and work on?

What's been something that has come your way that's been unexpected so far? Yeah. I think it it it I've probably given the answer already, but it goes back to, folks utilizing us outside of just the grading pipeline.

The grading pipeline is still our bread and butter. You know, grade your cards, choose to vault them, you know, eventually sell them or or return them home, whatever you wanna do. We wanna serve all collectors in that way.

But, the droves of cards that we get directly from people's houses, is still, I think, the most surprising to me. And, one of the things on the road map is to make that process, yeah, even easier. And all of this comes together.

Right? We wanna make the shipping process easier. We wanna be at more events like I talked about so that maybe you don't have to ship, and and, you know, give you more opportunity to just hand us those cards over.

But I think, you know, we call them internally, we kind of refer to them as cards in the wild, cards that are outside of our, of our ecosystem or have left our ecosystem.

Winning those back is, maybe not surprising, but the volume has been surprising.

I'm also always surprised by how many times we see a card leave the vault, and then six months later, you know, it's probably been sold at a show or, you know, purchased at a repack or something, and and then it comes back to the vault.

Like, we see that all the time, which is, you know, I think speaks to the vault's value is even when it leaves the vault, it could very likely end up with someone that is is going to return it and, use our services for that card.

So that's that's always a little bit surprising. It actually broke our systems, slightly at one point because we didn't really plan for a ton of stuff, coming in, leaving, coming back.

So, we fixed that. We've we've rectified that quickly, but, that that was always a surprising customer behavior. The vault boomerang card. I Yeah. Exactly. Great game. That hasn't that hasn't hit me yet.

But, wow, that makes a lot of sense just based on the way the hobby, operates. Maybe before we dive into the North Star metric, I'd love to or, before we dive into the road map, I'd love to learn, like, about your NorthStar metric.

Like, your dashboard, like, what is the most important thing that you're driving towards on a day to day basis? I think right now, it for us, it's, number of customers utilizing the service and amount of cards in the vault.

And we're approaching a pretty cool milestone, on the cards front where I think, almost certainly in the next couple of months, we'll, you know, we'll reach a million cards in the vault, which is a a really cool milestone.

But we want to you know? I I don't wanna steal from fanatics and say we want a 10 x it, but we want a 10 x it as well. Right? And, you know, we we want to service as many collectors and as many cards, as we possibly can.

That's, you know, the financial metrics and and, you know, we are a for profit business. That's all, driven by usage. So I'm focusing on usage every day and trying to get as much stuff and as many people into this ecosystem as possible.

I always I I always find in these sorts of launches and feedback, it's always interesting to understand, like, your own people, like, what feedback, employee usage is I know there's not everyone, but so many people at Collectors and PSA collect cards.

I'm I'm curious. Like, are you getting feedback from anyone from the internal team on their usage? Oh, absolutely.

I mean, you're right. We're we're very lucky to work at a company where so many of, so many of our employees are also using the services, and that creates the most honest, you know, direct feedback loop that you could ever have.

So, yeah, we and and I think what's really interesting is, I would say there's no team that doesn't have, like, a collector mentality.

You know, our ops team uses the vault. Our product team uses the vault. The tech team uses it. They see how the UX looks to, you know, the end user.

So hearing from them, getting their feedback, letting them experience a little bit of the pain, as we build this thing, is so important, because it it's you know, we all are stakeholders in this thing and and want to grow it.

And, obviously, our experience mirrors what customers are experiencing, and, there's a lot of learning that could be done from that.

Okay. So it it hit me as as we were sitting here talking. We'll drop in the safe harbor statement here and making sure any future facing comment and commentary were were protected. So, Jacob, maybe let's get into the road map stuff.

For whatever you can share, like, looking forward vision, maybe talk a little bit about what's on the road map for anyone who's currently using the vault or anyone who is has been bulk curious about, digging in.

Maybe share kinda what might be, next up. Yeah. So I'll talk maybe more thematically, than exact features. But one thing that has rolled out and is going to continue to be, iterated on and optimized is, our PSA offers program.

So we have this great integration with eBay, but we're also, servicing up offers from a collection of dealers. No different than, kind of your bulk suburbs or or dealers on the grading side. They're they're buyers as well.

Almost every seller I found is or is a buyer. Everyone's kind of cycling this stuff. And, that program essentially offers you no fee cash for, cards that are vaulted and and soon, cards that will be in the grading pipeline.

So I think that's a that program is is a great add on to this, you know, eBay business that already exists.

So that that's one that I'm super excited about. We've talked about the national a little. I think we're going to be I don't think. We're going to be doing some really cool things at the national.

In the past, we've, you know, we've only done intake, but we're going to be adopting the grading mentality once again and doing more, on the floor type of services, including vaulting your card same day, so that you can receive offers against it.

You can list it on eBay later that night.

Like, I think what a cool experience it will be to go out, potentially buy at a table, maybe buy in bulk, drop everything off at the vault, grab your dinner, and by the time you sit down back in your hotel room at night, be able to list those cards or accept offers already.

Like, that's, that's an experience that we're driving towards and that we'll be launching, here this year at the national, which is super exciting.

And then, you know, we always are focused on just making the overall user experience, user interface easier.

We've heard a lot of feedback about, sortability and filterability within the what we call the collection platform where you're kind of managing all of your inventory.

Everybody wants folders or some way to say, this card is in my PC, and this card is, you know, is one that I'm going to sell, eventually.

And, you know, just leaning into organizing your collection the way you wanna organize it and make it as agnostic as possible so that people can create their own ways of of organization is is going to be key to us.

Yeah. So those are things that, you know, we're are probably in the near term that we're I'm most excited about, and I think our customers will really gain value from.

Maybe if we're we're looking even further down the road, big milestones, usage, whatever it is, like, maybe over the next three years, where does the PSCA team where where would you all like to see kind of the vault sit amongst not only kind of PSA products, but just overall industry?

Yeah. We're discovering new opportunities almost every day, it it feels like. And, I think the you know, we have focused graded cards are our bread and butter, obviously. That's what PSA does, you know, at scale.

That's what we've done at scale, so far. But I think when we think about the future of vaulting and the future of our vault, category expansion is certain certainly something that we're putting a lot of strategic thought into.

PSA obviously just announced that, they'll be grading comics.

I think, you know, eventually, it's a it's a no brainer that anything PSA grades, we would obviously want to service at the vault. You know, we can store that stuff today, with the right exceptions, but we can't list it.

It's not all tied into the liquidity flows. So, you know, expanding on the kind of full grade vault cell life cycle across new categories is is certainly has our attention.

I think when we talk about getting feedback, one of the loudest things we've heard is from the international community. You know, card collecting collecting in general is only getting more and more global.

And, we launched with the ability we launched eBay, the eBay integration with the ability to pay out to, I think, four countries, The US, Canada, Japan, and UK.

We immediately heard, like, from these other collecting crazy countries like, hey. We're over here. Come in, you know, let let us play as well.

So we've added, half a dozen at least, since launch including Australia, Singapore, you know, some others, that are collecting crazy, but there are plenty more out there, that are rate still raising their hand and and wanting to, to participate.

And, you know, there's tax legal reasons why we have to make sure we launched you know, we can't just flip the switch. We have to make sure that we launch these properly with, you know, our payout partner Stripe.

But, ultimately, international expansion and, you know, focusing on on those markets that are getting more and more into this, you know, hobby, are things that we we are also strategically focusing on for the future.

This this conversation's been very enlightening. I've learned a ton even I felt like I was in the weeds a little bit, but not even close. You shined a light a lot of light on stuff I've been thinking about or curious about.

Maybe, Jacob, as we round out this conversation, I'm interested there's individuals listening who maybe haven't used PSA Vault services or just Vault services in general.

I would imagine, like, a a lot of these conversations will happen at the national where people are asking you, like, why should I do this?

Like, what what would you leave people with? Like, how would you maybe explain your, like, life professional life, what you're, you know, focused on 100% of your time?

Like, what what what do you say to those individuals who might be uncertain or might be a little curious but just haven't taken the leap yet?

Yeah. I think what I would say is that we are committed to excellence. We're iterating to get there, but we are committed to it.

And it all comes back to our mission of making you know, all of this business and the grading business comes back to the overall collector's mission of making this hobby more safe, more fun, more accessible, easier to get into, easier to operate within.

And I think we've taken steps in that direction, and we're going to continue to take steps in that direction.

What I would say to people that are on the fence today is, if you have that set, you know, that set of 10 slabs that have been sitting on your desk for a month that you keep saying, oh, I'll list them tomorrow night, send them in.

Give it a try. Like, let's, you know, get started somewhere.

And what I would say to folks that that doesn't push them over the edge to to try to or to use our product is, keep in touch with us, keep sending us feedback, keep checking in because if you look at just the last three years and the last year specifically iterating on the eBay integration, we're only going to continue to build the product, make it better and better, make it more user friendly.

So if it's not for you now, check-in with me in in three or six months or come talk to me at the national.

You can always send feedback to vault@collectors. com. I look at all of those messages. Maybe for this audience, put feedback in the subject line so that I can, make sure to pick them out. But, we're available digitally.

We'll be available at the national and other shows in person. Come talk to us, see what it's all about, and, let's make sure that, you know, folks that are on the fence feel good, about taking that action.

And, you know, we're accomplishing that safe, fun, easy mission that we're setting out to accomplish.

Awesome. Jacob, thank you so much. This is a ton of fun learning from you. And, yeah, I would love to maybe have another chat down the road and see if that million cards has turned into two or three or four or 10,000,000.

We'll see. Well, you can help us, Brett. Send us more send us more and more, and and we'll get there faster. Yes. Yeah. We we we on it right now, man. Appreciate it, and, talk to you soon. Awesome. Thanks, Brett. Take care.