Welcome back, loyal listeners of the Stacking Slabs podcast two season two episode eight of the WNBA card podcast.

My name is Caitlin. I go by at cold lunch cards on the the Instagram machine and everywhere else on the Internet. And I'm joined by the man, the myth, the legend, Brett McGrath at stacking slabs, my cohost today.

And we're excited to continue to bring you guys collector driven and community focused content each and every week to your headphones or speakers or phone or however you're getting this podcast today.

We appreciate you guys being here. Brett, how are you doing today? We talked before. And in that conversation, I said I was doing great because it's, like, 60 and perfect in Indy. But I'll be real with you.

Now that we've got it rolling on the podcast, I I'm I'm suffering right now as a WNBA fan and as a fever fan. I'm in tremendous pain and suffering. You I told you, you know, the links, in the fever have played each other twice in a row.

And I said, if they fever could just split, I'd be in a good mood and I'd throw a party. That didn't happen. And I just can't do it anymore. I can't watch a team that has zero point guard try to play basketball.

No matter how great Kelsey Mitchell's playing. No matter how wonderful Leah Boston is. It is and honestly, Caitlin, I cannot believe they have won the games that they've won in this state.

It's been just painful to watch. And so that's how I'm doing right now. I'm, you know, very, fearful that this team is not going to be able to make the playoffs, which is unimaginable at this point.

But I also will say I have never seen a team in any sport with this many injuries and everything. Like, this is a season that will never be forgotten be based on injuries. I mean, you remember, like, the one of Bonner was on this team.

I mean, like, don't even get me started there, But it has been an absolute, train wreck, watching this. And I don't wanna be, like, overly negative because I feel like the team has definitely tried to put their best foot forward.

Steph White is definitely trying to coach them up. But we just like this is like, let's this can this be over with? Like, can you just can we just please have Caitlin Clark back?

Like, please give me something. Even if the fever are out of the playoffs by the time she comes back, at least give me the here's Caitlin Clark back fighting for the fever to get into the playoffs.

I know she's, like, on the floor, but it's like, like, let's just put her out there. It's it's been a month. It's been enough.

Like, I'm tired of it. Yeah. You asked me how I'm doing, Caitlin, and that's how I'm doing right now. I'm I'm suffering right now. I'm sorry, Brett. Only only a little bit sorry, but, like, I'm sorry that you have to deal with that.

I wanna say thank you to the fever for having so many damn national TV scheduled games that I get to watch my Minnesota games without a blackout. Thank you to the fever for that the past two games.

That was very helpful. I'm I I do feel bad for you guys. It's been a rough season able to finish on a high note, which was just seeing your star player on the court, I know that that would be helpful.

I I do wanna shift away from the fever, because I feel like we could get stuck in a drain of misery here if we just keep going on and on because it's so sad.

Like, this team was supposed to be so great, and, it's it's just not panning out.

But it is panning out for the Minnesota Lynx. And so we do have to put we do have to plug that. I'm in full steam ahead mode of the MVP campaign for Nafissa Collier.

I keep getting a lot of DMs from you guys telling me about other players that are competing for that. And to that, I say good for them. I wish them good luck, and I'll see you at the end of the season when we're doing award ceremonies.

The Minnesota Lynx have been super fun to watch. Fees finally back. The stud buds are going to the Minnesota State Fair and having all of the activities there. My team is awesome, and I love them so much.

So I'm doing well. Championship or bust? Is that where we're at, Caitlin? Yes. I actually recently listened to Birds Eye View, Sue Bird's podcast, direct competitor to us, where she had Nafissa Collier on.

And Nafissa Collier said a lot of insightful things. And Sue Bird asked her what a successful season looks like here.

And she said, nothing short of a championship. So I'm on the I'm listening to my goat. I'm listening to my leader, and she said she wants the chip, so we're gonna go get it.

And on that note, let me just say, since we're doing the whole fee thing each and every week, I one part of that interview that I really like that if you guys, you know, wanna check it out was they asked Sue Bird asked Nafissa Collier, you know, in 2023, you weren't gonna play in the season because things just weren't going according to plan.

You weren't feeling very up for it. What clicked? And you know what Nafissa Collier said? She said, I tried really hard. And I think that that just encapsulates my love for Nafissa Collier and the player that she is.

It's not that God gave her this talent or that she's just been, you know, endowed with these gifts and everything and all those things like the cliche things the athletes say.

She just said, you know what? I tried really hard, and I'm still trying really hard.

And every time I touch basketball, I'm trying a 100%. And so I expect nothing less of my links as we head into the the start of the playoffs here soon, and I'm just super excited to see what's ahead.

Hopefully, we'll have a city full of pink hair, for the parade, and it'll be awesome. But, now I'm getting ahead of myself. So That's what we do as fans.

Yeah. Exactly. Quiet. Okay. It's only natural. Well, before we get into it, we got a lot of talk to to talk about today. Give a quick plug to our sponsor, Great Lakes Trading Cards Co in Saint Paul off Randolph Ave.

Owners Chris and Spencer have been great supporters of the WNBA card podcast. And just a little plug here is that they'll be set up at the Minnesota card show in September, and I'll be hanging out with them.

So if you guys are, in the Twin Cities at the Saint Paul River Center, I think it's the September, come say hi. Check out what they have. Come talk to me. I'd love to see you guys.

Alright, Brett. I'll hand it over to you. Alright. So let's get this party started. And what a there's there's no better place to start this, I think, than talking about the WNBA releases or lack thereof releases coming from Panini.

And this topic really hit me as we're I was diving in and trying to put together this episode.

And I think back to the last, like, three or four conversations we've had, Caitlin, about growth in this category. And just year over year, like, $100 sales, 500 sales, digging into different gold prism sales.

And it's undeniable that this category and this by meaning the WNBA card collecting category is probably the strongest it's ever been. It has the most eyeballs it's ever been, and we're all hungry for more cards.

However, right now, we're not getting any new cards. And if we are getting new cards, they're not being communicated to us, the fans, in a way that I think is appropriate.

I was writing the notes, and I said, you know, we're halfway through this. He was WNBA season. We're more way more than halfway through the WNBA NBA season, and it's basically been radio silence from Panini.

We got the news regarding Donneris, and I know there's a link you shared with me, and we'll talk about that. But there hasn't been much of an update, and then we got rookie royalty.

And we don't wanna necessarily go down that rabbit hole, but that's what I wanna talk about. I we we were in this position last year when Caitlin Clark was on fire and there was no cards her rookie year.

And now, I mean, it's Paige backers and other rookies that we'll talk about are very captivating, very compelling, and we don't have cards to turn to out of a major release.

I'm not saying they're not going to be here, but it just feels like if we are pushing this category forward and there's more eyeballs, more visibility than ever before, that the the the thing we should be doing from a manufacturer's perspective is feeding this audience with new product.

This hobby is obsessed with new product. This hobby is obsessed with prospecting. This hobby is obsessed with getting their hands on new cards, going on eBay, safe searches.

And outside of rookie royalty, which I'm not even that is not a product that is for me or a lot of the audience listening. And if it is for you, that's fine.

But I'm just saying, it's a very polarizing product. There's been nothing that has been sent our way this season to help us continue to build out player runs to give us the opportunity to collect incredible rookies like Paige Becker.

So there's some stuff I want to get into, but that's where I want to launch off. Caitlin, maybe I'll give you the space if you have any reaction to this before we kinda get into it.

Yeah. Let's just dive into it. I'll just start by saying, you know, hopefully, this is a push forward, and hopefully, we'll learn something new. And we'll keep you guys updated throughout, the episodes if we do learn anything.

But it's just been disappointing so far as a fan and as a collector to experience a lot of incredible moments this year, both for like my team in general, but also the league and to not be able to, you know, turn that into cards has been extremely disappointing.

So we go back to February in when Prism was released, which it it seems like years ago at this point.

It honestly, it feels like we've been living with Prism forever. And we got news that there was going to be these new releases, that came out this year, and there's gonna be more WNBA releases than ever before.

And then that almost got, like, just completely pushed off the table, and then we were presented rookie royalty. And rookie royalty just like Panini instant rookie royalty featuring all of these brands.

And we all know what happened with that product. We all know how it went and the prices and everything, and we've talked on this podcast about our feelings about that product.

But it's like, after that, there hasn't been much said. And anything that I have noticed regarding, like, where Donerous is or where other products are have has been done based on my own search, which I think is wild.

Like, this league is on fire. The mark card market is on fire. And I feel like in this zone, things should be just coming at me, and I shouldn't even have to think about it.

But I wanna, like, I know a lot of collectors, love new product, and a lot of collectors plan their entire kinda year and budgets around new products so that they can buy a case, buy into breaks, you know, save up for that rookie that they're chasing.

But right now, like, there's no dates and nothing to to plan for.

When something does happen, it's just like, ta da, here it goes. I don't know. Like, what what's your experience or what I know you are more, like, engaged in the the community of collectors having conversations around this.

Like, what what is your perception on kind of this current state of lack of releases and updates that's coming from Panini?

Yeah. I think it's just more of the same that the WNBA fans have dealt with for a long time, which is being underserved and told to deal with it. Honestly, that's not just in cards. That's just in general.

And I think that, you know, it's really disappointing to see manufacturers and companies in general not take advantage of the situation that they have, which is that WNBA fans are willing to spend a lot of money on this stuff, cards or not.

And it's time to start meeting that that need. The supply demand factor is very difficult to watch happen in real time because there's so much demand and no little to no supply that I think collectors are just getting anxious.

And maybe it's forcing them to look elsewhere. I think for my personal collection, it's been quite disappointing because, you know, throughout this podcast, I've talked about my technique of building a six pack of a card of of a player.

And, I'm working on my fee six pack, and that six spot has not yet been identified.

I haven't identified what I wanna fill that with and what I wanna chase. I thought it was gonna be something from this year, like a new product that's the first of its kind.

And now it's making me kinda doubt that because he's gonna win a championship by the time these cards come out and they're gonna be completely unaffordable for me.

So is that really how I wanna attack this? I think it just complicates planning, and planning is what makes, I think, mature collectors very, interested in collecting. And so it's just been it's just been a headache, to be honest.

So the example that I turn to and I went to as I was thinking about this and preparing for this episode, I my move was I went to Panini's website, and I saw that I just went to the search bar, WNBA.

And what populated was, Donerous with just, like, some information, but no, like, date or when this is on sale. And then there was also impeccable, and I was, like, impeccable.

Like, did I even know that was happening? And then as I sent you this doc, you shared with me, which I'll pull it up on the screen, and maybe, Caitlin, you can talk through what, we have here.

But you sent me something that I had absolutely no idea about. So maybe share with the audience what that was.

Yeah. What we're what we're showing on the screen for everybody is a listing on Dick's Sporting Goods for a 2025 Panini WNBA Donner's Mega Box, which says, sorry, this item is out of stock, zero reviews, no further information.

A picture of the box, just the front and then the side. You don't get to see the entire thing.

And then surrounded by it, the similar products to consider are all NBA. So this is this is all we've got right now. I didn't get a notification about this. This was a message sent in a group chat, and that is how I heard about it.

I do not find myself browsing on Dick's Sporting Goods often for WNBA cards, so there's no surprise that I didn't see this coming. It's also listed under NBA accessories.

So that's a bit disappointing. Well, let me just say that. Did you when when you were notified of this via the group chat, were was it sent to you by like, the individual saying, like, this is on sale. Go get it now.

Or were they always was it always listed, sorry, this item is item I think it was available. I think it was available at the time. I think it might have been a preorder, and it had a date of October something for delivery.

So it looks like it's sold or not available anymore, and that at some point, it was. So this is very interesting to me. I don't really understand what's going on here.

And we haven't heard a peep from Panini saying, hey, everybody. Go to Dick's Sporting Goods and buy this. So it's just very confusing. And I think the sentiment from at least the collectors that alerted me of this, it was, hey, guys.

Here you go. Good luck. And, also, does anybody know what's in these boxes? They're like, there's no further information. It just it's, like, makes sense of the little text that you can zoom in on in the photo.

This this is I think the big story here is how mind blowing this is just from a business sense, where you've got a raging hot category with new releases, new products. And, okay, Donerous.

Let's just say that this is the return of Donerous, and let's just say, okay. Caitlin Clark is no longer a rookie. Okay. But it would be one thing, and even, like, egregious if there was no, like, rookies in this this year new product.

But, like, it's literally Paige Becker's rookie year with and she just had 44 points, and she's having a wonderful season. And so many collectors want a Paige Beckers and a Dallas Wings card in their collection.

And it just blows my mind that the communication or lack thereof communication from the manufacturer about, like, the promotion of your product and the promotion of the category.

And to not even let, like, your passionate collectors know, but, like, try to extend that outside.

Because I would imagine, like, most people who watch basketball, whether they don't watch WNBA regularly, know who Paige Beckers is based on her place in basketball culture right now.

It's just like it it's it's it's unexplainable for me as a marketer who's responsible for promotion of products, and we're not getting that from the manufacturer level.

So what is it like Caitlin, what does that say to you just about Panini's prioritization of this category?

The fact that, like, we're having to learn this through self discovery. It's complicated, I think. I don't wanna, like, sit here and say, like, it's only the WNBA that's suffering from this because it's not.

This seems to be across the board. All different sports categories and non sports categories have little to no transparency when it comes to product releases, and they're all being delayed at, like, a lot.

And so I don't think it's just a WNBA problem, but I do think, like, the lack like, what you were talking about, the lack of the manufacturer understanding the moment and capturing it.

It's like, I don't understand what else they need to see to be like, oh my god.

We need to push this out as soon as possible, whatever it takes. To that end, I did hear, like, a rumor about you mentioned you mentioned it and it made me remember, which is that rookie royalty says Panini instant on the back.

And I don't know if that plays a factor into the release schedule for WNBA because Panini and the WNBA PA have a deal where you have to release x amount of products a year with all the players featured in it.

And then the Panini instant cards, which are released on the website, they're just single cards, those don't count towards that x number of releases because it's just a specialty product.

Now because rookie royalty got packaged up and thrown out the door as a standalone product and not on the website itself, it might be occupying one of those slots for a release, and that could be pushing it back quite a lot.

And it could also be why we haven't heard about those other releases that were, touted at the beginning of the season, other than non Rust.

So I think that there might be more happening behind the scenes that we don't know about that's getting complicated, and this might be a side effect of that. But but I don't know. I'd love to hear from Panini.

Like, if if they really did accidentally put out more product than what they were allotted, I think they should come out and say it so that collectors at least know when this stuff is gonna be hitting the shelves.

Yeah. It's almost like the rookie royalty of it all disrupted Yes. Exactly. Schedule that they had plans for. Yeah. Then this, like, meteor dropped, and it was rookie royalty.

And so maybe that's why we're dealing with some of the ramifications. One one of those products and I I'm, like, trying to go back to the initial, like, news, and I don't know where it came from.

But we I knew going into this post Prism that WNBA and we talked about it on this podcast that that Panini was planning on releasing more WNBA releases this year than ever before.

And in my, like, my memory is very bad, especially in these, like, content cycles that I'm constantly in. And I can't remember Impeccable, and that's, like, when I looked it up, I was like, oh, Impeccable.

I don't remember this, but it it looks like impeccable is going to be a product that, is going to drop, which is more of a for anyone who's not collected impeccable.

I would say more on the higher end. I would not put it in the same category as like a n t or a flawless, but it's it's right there. I mean, you're getting autographs. There's kind of like some really good insert sets.

The cards look pretty cool art, but I don't know. Like, what what are your thoughts just on, like, the Impeccable release? Did you know that that was coming? Do you have any thoughts about Impeccable?

Thoughts on Impeccable? I'd love to see it. Where is it? What's taking so long? That would be my my only thoughts on it. I I hope it's good. I hope there's some good cards in there. I I I really enjoy Impeccable for NFL.

I think it's an underrated product that you can get in at a good price for on card autos. I think that's, like, the selling point of the product. And I would I would appreciate if we saw some of that.

So maybe soon. Maybe soon. How big of a miss do you think it is for a maturing category when you have a star like Paige Becker's and you have attention, but you don't have any cards outside of Panini instant available.

This is round two of this, and we're we're literally going back to back of, like, maybe two of the best in terms of, like, stars that are born right away, Nike class that the WNBA has ever seen.

Like, how big of a miss do you think that is?

Not for us who are gonna be here no matter what, but for people who could become Yeah. Members of the WNBA collecting, space, and they just need a a Paige Becker's Donner's card to drop to really pull them in.

Yeah. It's a monumental, failure. I think I think if, like, you think about the stoplight chart that a lot of people use to evaluate, success, you know, you have green, which is really good.

You have, like, yellow and orange, which is concerning. And then red, which is, like, please help God, like, this is not going well.

I think we're in the red and I think we've been in the red for a while and it's time to, to hopefully move that to orange or yellow and, I I just think it's just really a failure a recognition a failure of recognition, I guess, to realize that collectors are demanding this.

They're willing to spend money, and it's a growing segment. So the more that you don't engage with them or don't give them what they want, it's gonna be more detrimental in the long term.

I suppose without the, I guess, without the certainty knowing about the license with Panini, it's an I'm it's unclear if they're thinking long term or not.

And I would I would just love to hear more about their philosophy of of what's going on here.

Just like an ounce of transparency, I think, would alleviate a lot of my concerns. To me and I would I I would love your maybe, like, put your your consulting brain on this, Caitlin.

But to me, like, we're seeing economics at play. We're seeing, increased demand. And we're seeing very, very low supply. So, like, what happens in cards in a category that's growing when demand outpaces supply like this?

Yeah. I don't think demand's gonna slow down. I think that would be somebody who's, like, first instinct is that demand has to go beat supply.

And I I just don't think that's the case here. I think the league is growing at such a rapid pace and that the, segment of the hobby is growing that people are going to look elsewhere, and I think that's what's gonna happen.

I think without the release of new products to capture the attention, we're going back in time. And I think, you know, just to a degree, that's helpful, and that is an advantage of what's happening here.

It's forcing people to not only look back at, you know, last year's Prism and start thinking about that, but you you look back at 2020. And then suddenly you say to yourself, well, what was before 2020?

And then you keep going and keep going. And I think we've seen that in the sales as well as people are starting to look back at the Rittenhouse and the Ultra, even the pinnacle all the way back to the beginning.

And I think that that's that would be a pro in this situation is there is a silver lining and that's that collectors are forced to look backwards and, you know, that's healthy.

And we and we have to look back at what was already there. And and hopefully, people are taking advantage of that. So we've talked about just listen back to the last few episodes.

There's been a lot of data. We've hit that a million times just in this conversation about growth. We, you know, we've we are seeing shops like Great Lakes, you know, promoting WNBA.

Like, it's present in the hobby shops, but it's just it's not being satisfied on the front end. And so I wanna maybe, like, end this segment by talking about maybe the bigger picture.

Again, like, I go back to communication and lack of communication, and maybe I'm not a part of those communication threads that Panini's putting out.

Although, I don't think I should have opted into anything. It literally should be in my face. Like, it's it's money that and I think maybe that's, like, this is all like I don't wanna go too far into it.

But my question is, like, is the manufacturer serving us, the collector, or are they just serving the entity? And the entity being the, the breaker who is buying all the cases, or the hobby shop who is buying allocation.

It's like, it feels like in this era, it is becoming less and less about serving the collector and more serving the distributor.

And I could go on, and I don't wanna do that here, but I could go on a whole another conversation with that.

But I'll I guess, ultimately, it raises a question that I wanna point back to you, Caitlin, is is do you think that the WNBA is a true priority for Panini?

I mean, hell, they got Paige and Caitlin, and they I we saw the I saw the activation in person at the WNBA All Star Games. I'm seeing all this stuff, but I'm like, does this have any substance?

Like, where's the where's the follow through or delivery? So do you think, like, Panini is, is a true priority for WNBA collectors or just maybe some flashy side project that they can kinda bring out whenever it feels like a good time?

Oh, jeez. That's like such a can of worms, and we could go so far into, like, the socioeconomics of the WNBA and the league and how that trickles over to this kind of stuff where there's a collector base.

But I think my takeaway is that, this isn't I think this is really true. I I believe this.

This isn't just the WNBA that's having issues like this, in terms of the hobby and transparency and not being delayed on release dates and pushing towards breakers and pushing towards, you know, more of the gambling culture and away from collectors.

I think that this is, you know, a shift happening in the hobby in real time, and we're seeing it.

And while prices continue to get pushed higher and higher and set sales and make records, and Caitlin Clark and Paige Beckers are the face of Panini's marketing, I I think the follow through, like you said, is just not there.

And I don't know what it is. I I don't know if it's intentional. I don't know if it's a symptom of the rookie royalty of it all. I don't know if it's a lack of planning versus a lack of care for the consumer.

I I don't know. And I just want Panini to come out and say, hey, guys. We're here. We're trying. Here's an update. I think that would literally alleviate so much of this discussion.

Things would be so much easier to navigate. And I I don't think it's I don't think it's because Panini thinks that the WNBA isn't worth investing in because we've proven otherwise, and the data is there.

And if that's the point, they need to hire somebody else because, obviously, you're not reading it correctly.

So I think that it's not exactly I don't think it's just WMB specific is my my headline here. Caitlin, you know what's gonna happen here because you and I are recording and talking about this before this episode goes live.

Yeah. We'll we'll we'll see the Dutch auction of Donner's Hobby Boxes. That's exactly I'm already anticipating it.

God save us. Yeah. Yeah. So that would be that would be classic, WNBA card pod. Hopefully, that doesn't happen. Alright. Let's move off of this topic, and we've done a bunch of historical data.

I figured it'd be goo it'd be cool to check out some big sales, and it's fun to talk about cards, especially in a market that's ripping right now. Talk about some sales that happened over the past week.

Before we get into these cards, I every show I've done on every topic and every category, the the underlying theme and is this raging market we're in and how all these Market portfolio growth.

Yeah. And you've got all the new participants, serving as with their PhDs, educating all of us on their Instagram stories about what we should be doing and thinking, and that doesn't get annoying at all.

And we've got Oh, I love I love that a lot. We've and we've got, you know, mister wonderful out being wonderful and showing his name and all this stuff and the big sales.

And, you know, I always say, I'm on the sideline. Like, I'm trying to be a cheerleader. Like, growth is good for a small business owner like myself in this space.

But it my question to you before we get into sales, like, WNBA specifically and the way you go about your business, like, has there been any like, does it feel different for you at all, or are there any, like, big observations you wanna make just on the sales side?

I think it no. Nothing changed for me personally.

I think that's, like, a mark of, hopefully, my growth as a collector is trying to eliminate that noise and block out the noise and just focus on what I wanna do and, you know, dealing with what's what cards are drawn.

If if manufacturers aren't producing cards, if sales are are happening, if headlines are being made, if my team is winning or losing, I try to just stay on track.

But it is it does feel like there's a shift, like I said, in the hobby right now, and it feels like it's it's turning away from the collector and turning towards, the money aspect.

And I think in the WNBA card collecting space, there are some new entrants, but it doesn't feel as Drastic as maybe other categories like we're not getting the $12,000,000 sale That's just not happening and quite honestly like I don't want that to happen right now It's not that would be artificial, and that would not be true to the to the segment.

Slow. Give me give me that slow and steady growth Exactly. I'm looking for.

But let's get into some of these sales here. We'll start here with, Dominic Malonga. Caitlin, someone who you've been a fan of in talking about her this this goes back to no real product, and this is what's happening on the sales side.

So you've got the Milonga instant, incoming class autograph one of one PSA 10, selling for $5,865 at auctions. That's certainly Malonga's biggest sale of all time, a massive sale.

It's got I don't wanna say all the elements, because the card is an instant. And no disrespect to instant, but, like, I feel like, you know, being packed pulled, you gotta Yeah.

Hold that into some weight. But I don't know. This is one of those cards too where I just, like, opened up Instagram, and there a conversation was happening, like, in stories about this sale.

So what's your reaction, to this one? Oh, I love this. Okay. I I feel like I've been quote unquote buying shares of Milonga for a while now.

Not physically because she has no fucking cards to buy. Excuse me. No cards to buy, but it's fine. But, like, I feel like I'm all in on her. She is playing so well out of her mind. She's with storm who has a strong collector base.

She's got all the elements and ingredients to turn out to be a superstar. I believe that. And she's only 19. She's racking up double doubles every night, and I think it's about time people start talking about her more seriously.

I think she's in conversations for six woman of the year. And, you know, I drafted her in what round five of my fantasy draft, and I'm very happy with my selection. Let me just say that.

So but this card, one one little shout here, Brett, as I saw, it was listed in a group I'm involved in for $11,000 now. So there is somebody trying to make a move here, and this was only sold, yeah, August 24, so not that long ago.

So I I I know that this is out in the wild, and somebody thinks there's opportunity for money to be made here, which is interesting. And I don't wanna shut down anyone's opportunity, but I think it's fascinating.

And it goes back to this, like, supply and demand thing where if there were, like, three or four products that were out like they should be right now with Malonga cards and parallels and everything, I'm assuming that a sale of this magnitude wouldn't happen.

Maybe it would, but then, like, the resale of it all, like, doubling it. To me, it's like someone trying to take advantage of the lack of supply and saying, well, I've got the perfect, the best Malonga card right now.

So let me, in this short window, try to get rid of it as quickly as possible, which I'm not shocked about.

That's how this typically works. But, I actually I don't hate it. I I Yeah. Let me just come at it from a different perspective, which is that Panini instant breeds that kind of flipping.

When you're buying the card, everybody can see the price that you're buying it for, and they had equal opportunity in theory to purchase the card at that price.

If Malonga starts having the season, which she's had in the second half of of what we've seen, I think you could argue that her prices has risen significantly.

I won't be buying it for $11,000, tell you that right now. Do we know what the purchase price is on the card before it went up for us? I think it was like half this at least.

Okay. At most. Or or through each cycle, we're trying to double. That's an interesting part of Panini instance. You know, where it's it's just a different way to look at it, and it it breeds that kind of that kind of reselling tactic.

I think that's the point of these cards. So it's just interesting. Just something to note. I love it. Alright. This card was, it was like, holy cow.

So your twenty twenty Sabrina signatures insert, from prism silver prism PSA 10. This thing sold for $1,339, and I I like, my reaction was people love PSA tens and then also, like, this 2020 set, whether it's the base or something else.

Like, I feel like we'll always be the Sabrina set, and individuals just, like, want a piece of Sabrina out of that set whichever way they can. That was, like, my take and reaction to this.

What were your thoughts on this? I I agreed. When I first pulled it up and saw the price, I was like, wow. That seems strong. I remember buying not that long ago just like her base autos out of this raw for really cheap, under a $100.

So then when you see a sale that is is much higher than that, it's just interesting. I think it points to Sabrina's growth. And like you said, I think it's it's more of an indicator of the set here.

Okay. Here's Sue Bird's rookie from Ultra o two PSA 10, which has a pop of 20, selling for $54. 33 at auction on August 21. I did a quick glance at, if this were the highest sale ever. There was actually one higher at 55 on July 2.

But we're hovering around a new tier of price point for this card, and let me verify. Yeah. Population 20 for this. But it's a base card and a PSA 10. It's selling for, you know, $5,400, which is certainly something.

It's something. I'm not a big base set person, just personally. I think that's the nature of growing up, in the February is that that was never the, I suppose, quintessential for me.

It was more about the colors and the shininess and etcetera. But that being said, I don't hate this. I don't hate this at all, Brett. I think high condition, low pop, historical, you know, not she got a statue now.

She's gonna be part of the m the WNBA forever. I don't hate this. And I I think that, you know, it's a it's an interesting card once we start talking about base cards in pristine condition that set these types of of sales.

It's very impressive. And, Sue Bird collectors are no joke, so it makes sense. Maybe instead of going on to the next couple, we can spend I feel like it'd be good to spend another second on this, Sue Bird.

Just because I think that topic in and of itself is super interesting, where it's like you can't go back and say, there's a category of WNBA cards that aren't vintage cards because the league is has not been around forever.

But if you go back as far as you can, almost, right, in finding the best cards, you're gonna be hit with these cards that have no parallels or maybe one parallel.

And so the demand for a superb rookie card likely will never go down. And so people collectors will try to get the rarest and scarcest, and they'll have to turn to grading in order to do that.

And we see that a lot with vintage. And although grading's important, eye appeal's another part of that conversation. But I just find that interesting. Like, even though I'm, hate to say it, Caitlin.

I'm much older than you. I and I didn't grow up in an era where it was parallels were everywhere. But as I've grown as a collector, certainly, parallels are important, and I appreciate that manufactured scarcity.

With all of that being said, the thing that, and I'm not putting this card down and putting down anyone who collects this stuff.

But for me, my biggest fear always is, like, somebody out there is sitting on a a shoe box of, like, 50 Sue Bird o two, FLIR Ultras, and they see a price like this.

And they say, oh, you know what? Like, maybe it's worth my while to send 40 of these into PSA.

And that, again, this episode is probably supply and demand. I just that that part of it always just, like, as we're getting new collectors in and everyone's kinda jockeying for position, that's always a a fear I have.

Yeah. Is that scary to you? Like, that if you own let's say you own the Sue Bird PSA 10 right now, and it's a pop 20, and somebody decides, hey. I've stumbled upon these. I'm gonna grade a batch of them, and the pop doubles overnight.

Does that card mean less to you now? I, so I'm coming from the context too of not being, like, a base card person. Yeah. And to me, this card is important to WNBA, and this is like a conversation more about values.

If this if this it's a pop report doubles on this overnight. Like, to me, this card gets almost split in half on value, if not further. So that but that's just my mindset.

Yeah. And you'd have to let like the auctions and everything play out, but that is a concern, especially as this category grows and more collectors are coming in trying to think of ways to make money Mhmm.

To me, that's that's kinda where my head goes. What about you? Oh, it's just such an interesting question to pose. I mean, it's a hypothetical, so we can't say how it how we would really feel. But, like, it would be an interesting test.

I'll say that. I don't know. I don't know. I think I'm in the same boat as you. I'll make a a tangential side note, which is that when I was at the National this year, I saw a PSA 10/2002 Altra Sue Bird, and it stopped me in my tracks.

And, like, it it it's one thing to see a card on a screen or see a sale and be like, well, it's just a base card. I saw it in hand. I picked it up, Brett. It made sense to me then.

And I don't know if somebody else also making sense of it and enjoying that card because it's a higher pop would devalue it. I don't I don't I don't know. It it's just an interesting thing to think about. It it it is.

And to what's crazy about it in, like, we're going like seven levels deep hearing you say that and having the ability to go walk and find the card at the National makes me even more or less excited about it because of my prioritization of rarity and scarcity.

Like, we we've done this show. We've done this show enough, several episodes, multiple seasons. I haven't tried to necessarily talk about this Sue Bird card, but it continues to come up.

We talked about the July 2 sale. And so, like, the repeated sales of cards, like, even if it's, like, a a few months apart Mhmm. The more I see it I'm just as a collector, the more I see it, the less I I I'm like about it.

It's kind of where I where I land. Hey, teach your own. It sounds like Brett needs a black label to be convinced here of the superb. Maybe we'll see. We'll see if one of those pops up. Well, we took up a lot of time there.

Basically, everything else I wanted to talk about was just emphasizing the points that we talked about from the previous segment. So, Caitlin, let's let's let's move on to pickups, pickup of the week. Do you got anything to talk about?

Sure. I'll show one. This is a smaller one. I was excited about this. This came in from, I'll shout them out, at the rookies corner on Instagram. I bought a 2021 prism dominance insert, mojo out of 25 of AJ Wilson.

And, this didn't cost me too much, and I think it was a good representation of value in the WNBA card space, is that you can get a super short print serial numbered card of one of the best players, ever ever, in a flagship product, Prism, for well under $50.

Like, sign me up. I just was excited about this. We'll see what I do with it. It doesn't necessarily hit the marks of forever PC for me, but it maybe would be for somebody else that's getting into the hobby or a younger collector.

And, with a show coming up in September, I figured this could be something fun to to bring along.

So that's my pickup of the week. What do you think about the Mojo's in WNBA Prism in comparison to maybe other other sports? It it feels like, you know, Mojo's been there from the jump, and I appreciate that, like, legacy.

Mhmm. And, like, '25 isn't 50. It's it's the Yeah. Or and every time I see a Mojo that's, like, you know, a PSA 10 mojo of a player that I like or wanna collect, like, I always am like, should I?

And I never pull the trigger because it's like, oh, that's opening up a whole another world. But I don't know. In terms of value in buying cool cards, it seems like the the Mojo's are, a nice place to be in with the VIP.

Let's let's let's hold some space for Mojo's right now, folks. I think if you're looking for and I told, we had a listener DM me.

Craig from, New York City Sports Cards, I think. And, he has his own podcast as well, Crosstown Cardboard. They coined these two guys on this podcast coined the term cool to cost ratio, and I used it last week on the pod.

And I told them I'd give them credit because they coined it. And let me just say this is a perfect opportunity to talk about cool to cost ratio is WNBA Mojo Prisms.

I remember when I was comping this card to buy it, I saw that AJ Wilson's 2020, the premier set of this time, One of them one of them.

Don't say it. That was the example. That was the example in my mind. Yeah. It was, like, 300. And I was, like, hello? This makes no sense. Like, the golds are out of control. You're gonna make me buy it, Caitlin. Yeah.

And out of 25 was so cheap relatively. And also, the cards are so cool looking. The technology on them is very good. Yeah. If this is the perfect time to shout out, cool to cost ratio, Mojo's need their place, and they have their place.

And I think people kind of underestimate them. I think they're a perfect spot for for collectors. Caitlin, if I end up so as that card, as you were showing yours, was just in my brain because I've looked at it so many times.

I'm gonna say this, you're gonna win. Maybe fee fee gets the MVP, you might get influencer of the year if I buy that card by the time this episode goes goes live.

I'm blaming you. We'll see. We'll see. But, yeah, I think, you know, pickups of the week, I think the the top line here is, mojos are underappreciated and undervalued.

So I'm excited about them. Alright. Let's bring in collector of the week. Oh, dude. I'm excited about this one. Collector of the week this week is at motor city marks.

Go Irish. Okay. Yes. Brett says go Irish. This is an exciting account. This is a Indiana based Notre Dame or I don't know if he's in Indiana, but Notre Dame He's actually in Michigan, but he's got Notre Dame season tickets.

Wow. Okay. Here we go. So Brett obviously knows this guy. But the reason why I picked this person in this collector is because they're Marina Mabry super collector.

And when I say super collector, I really mean it. This is like the best of the best Marina Mabry cards and and they're awesome. Like, I just love seeing somebody, collect a player at this level.

And and there's other stuff sprinkled in there too, but I just found it so so impressive. This collection stopped me in the tracks from the moment that I stumbled upon the Instagram page.

There's just some huge cards here. Go one more down right there. There's a Hannah Hidalgo Superfractor Auto. Just massive cards, folks. And I I wrote in my notes, I did wanna say this.

This is like an alternate universe of you, Brett. Maybe if Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck and Caitlin Clark never existed or never came to Indiana, maybe this is what your collection would look like. I think that's a great observation.

I'll never forget this. This is a WNBA card podcast, but I'm shouting this out. He's got the Audrick estimate, former Notre Dame running back, super fracture just held up and you can see the Golden Dome in the back.

It's literally giving me goosebumps. Just looking at this picture. I'm excited for football season, and all of it. But, yeah, I love this page.

I love seeing I'll be watching the Irish getting ready to, like, tip-off, and I'll, like, look at this, the IG stories, and Motor City Marks will be, like like, rose up taking a photo being at the game that I'm getting ready to watch on television.

I'm like, I am so jealous right now, and, like, I'll send messages and be, like, awesome game and stuff.

So I don't know. We we connect with people like us and who cheer for teams, and it's fun to see this way to collect and be so focused on the college that you love and just, like, zero in on one player.

There's nobody with a better, Marina Mabry collection in the world.

I'm convinced of it. So go follow Motor City Marks. Yeah. Go follow Motor City Marks. And last thing on this collector spotlight of the week is I just I wanna shout him out for his logo.

It's just one of the best I've seen. I think it's really good. And when we talk about personal brands, I hold my lunchbox close to my heart.

And let me just say this is one of those logos that really just feels right. And so those are little things in the hobby that I I recognize, and I think that, their logo is super cool.

Go follow them. Alright. Are we ready, Brett, for Mailbag? Yeah. Let's go. Okay. I'm excited. We've got five questions this week. Very excited. I hope everybody appreciated the photo I used.

I put all three of the top MVP candidates in our solicitation this week. I used a t in a hoodie that said, like, swag doesn't come cheap. And I think now Brett and I need to get matching swag doesn't come cheap hoodies.

Okay. Anyways, first question, because I have to honor our listeners and they want to hear this, from s holly 02/2003, how many triple doubles does Nafissa Collier have? I'm asking for a friend in Phoenix. The answer is zero.

Moving on to question two from MJS sports cards. Best WNBA content, journalists, podcasts, new breakers? Drop one to two that need to follow. And I came up with two because I was excited about this. I love shouting out other folks.

The first one was at charting hoops, aka Chris, on Instagram. This is an account that focuses on statistics in the NBA and the WNBA. They put together really cool illustrations and graphics, and I've just been enjoying, following them.

They made one that was really good that showed which teams are most likely or based on historics, who's trading the most in the WNBA, and it was like a web map.

And I just love seeing visualizations like that. So that's the first one I wanna shout out. And the second one is, the unsupervised podcast with Sydney Colson and TP. They've got a new podcast starting.

It's pretty funny if you guys wanna get inside the minds of two, WNBA forward folks. Now that Sydney Colson is out, I'm sorry, Brett, with her her injury, I think she'll have more time to focus on her podcast.

I love those good callouts. I first one that comes to my mind is, no off season podcast put out by The Athletic. Zina Queta is the host of that.

That's one that's just in my regular rotation that I think is good. It keeps me up to speed on all the league happenings. Right. As long as you're keeping the WNBA card pod in that rotation, folks, just go consume this content as well.

There's a lot of good stuff out there. Okay. Question three for my friend, BlackHat cards. Predictions for when and what will be the first non Caitlin Clark card to eclipse six figures.

And if your prediction is out of rookie royalty, exclude that from your answer. I would say, you pay a page page Becker prism one of one. That's That's what I said. Necessity. That's what I put down as Paige's black finite one of one.

And as my prediction for the timing of it, because that was also an element, I wrote May 2026, but after, talking through this episode, it's gonna be probably, like, May 2027 is my prediction, my real prediction.

Fair. Okay. Question number four from r e Mack. Whose cards could benefit the most from their team winning the championship? Honestly, I I would probably say Nafissa Collier, to be honest.

Period. It just it feels like everyone knows how good she is, and she just it's like she just needs that championship for real, like, strong money to come into her category.

Like, it's one of those things, like, if you're on the sidelines waiting, like and you believe in odds and betting and, like, you like her, like, and I'm sorry. I'm blowing your spot here a little bit, Caitlin.

But it to me, this is the easy answer. It feels like Nafissa Collier. I didn't wanna get any more shit from our listeners about my Nafissa Collier picks for all of these, so I picked somebody different to use the listeners.

I picked AT, but I also put AT plus Sato Sabli plus Kalia Copper. I think that those three on the Phoenix Mercury are poised to have some bigger sales if they can, you know, make the headline of championship.

And especially with such a storied franchise and, specifically, Satu and AT coming into that franchise this year, I think that those two could benefit greatly as well as KFC.

But I yeah. For the sake of, you know, not just being a fee, truther, forever and ever, I picked somebody else, which is basically the whole Phoenix Mercury team. A lot of good players on that squad. Yeah. Oh, they're scary.

Okay. Last question. And this one I'm super excited about. This comes from Carter at MC Basketball PC. Since season awards are becoming a hot topic as the season winds down, do some season awards for your personal collection.

So we've got four awards, Brett. And each of us are gonna go through and assign a card in our PC to one of these season awards. Let's start with rookie of the year.

So this is your favorite card that you've picked up within the last year. Do you want me to go first and then you can show off yours? Or do you want me to go all the way through? So I don't have mine in hand, but I will, go for it.

You go first. I'll follow your lead. Okay. So my rookie of the year card is 2023 Origins, Aja Wilson, black one of one. I told the story about getting this at the national, and I think, it was good timing to pick it up.

Immediately following this pickup, she has skyrocketed to the top of the MVP and bringing her team, to three spot, four spot, three spot in the rankings at the time of the recording. Just super excited about this.

Love the look of it. I think first year Origins is an underrated product, and this will have to be probably my favorite product or my favorite pickup of the year. Mine is the 24 Prism, Ilia Boston Black Finite one of one.

That's definitely my favorite. I've talked about 24 prism being my favorite design. I gave up a really good, only a Boston card to a collector this year, and this was my replacement.

I love that card. So I I need a good Boston, and I have one. I feel very content. Yeah. It's gotta feel good. She's a she's a silver lining of the organization this year with all the injuries as you can constantly root her on.

Okay. Next award is most improved player. A card you like significantly more now than when you first got it. And I had a perfect fit for this, which is the 2021 Prism Mosaic out of three Nafissa Collier.

The reason why I put it at most improved is because when I bought it, it wasn't worth a lot of money, to be honest, guys. I feel like it was super undervalued, and people weren't paying attention to fee.

They weren't paying attention to this, parallel because it was the first time it was introduced in Prism. So it didn't have the lineage or or legacy factor. And now that it does, it makes me appreciate it a lot more.

The other part is that I wasn't in love with the jersey that she's sporting in the photo, which I know is picky. But it's got the massive Mayo Clinic sponsorship on the chest, which is just, like, not my vibe.

I wanted to say links. But now I've kind of grown up and ignored that and thought to myself, be one of my favorite fee cards I've ever seen and ever had.

The way that it shines, I just I just love it. Now I'm so thankful that I, former me picked it up for a good price.

Awesome card. Mine is the Brittney Griner black finite out of 24, prism mostly because it's really the card that set off this, collecting spray I've I've have on these fine nights. I'm not a PG collector at all. I respect her.

Certainly one of the greatest players to ever play the game. Best big to ever play the game. I I just bought the card because I was like, man, I love black finites in football, and BG is one of the greatest, and the price seems right.

And it was just like those elements, and I bought it. And I ever since I bought it, it's it's kinda like started this new collecting lane for me. And for that, I appreciate it.

Yeah. That's a good card. I I I remember when you showed me a picture of that card for the first time in the it's she's in a Mercury jersey. Right? Correct. Yeah. The colors work so well with the black finite. That card is captivating.

That's a great one. Okay. We're moving on to our third award, which is defensive player of the year or card of the year, I suppose. This is a card that you love for a reason that you think is underappreciated in mainstream collecting.

And then in parenthesis, because defense is underrated. So here's defensive player of the year for me, which is former defensive player of the year, Nafissa Collier. 2024 Prism. Cherry blossom, first off the line.

Serial number, two twenty. It's in a PSA nine. The reason why I think this is underappreciated is because, I've coined this as being the Gen z parallel. That doesn't mean you have to be Gen z to appreciate it or collect it.

I just think it's a younger parallel, first appearance for WNBA. It's flashy. It's got a lot going on. There's both the flower aspect of the design, but it also has the, scope technology.

And so there's a lot going on which can, you know, move a lot of people away from it. It's also, you know, out of 20, so it's not a a classic out of 10, out of 25, out of 50. It's something different.

And I think that sometimes sways people away. But I love it. And I, I love fee. And this is part of my six pack. And so that would be my defensive player of the year card. My defensive player of the year card is, a shooter.

So it's kind of ironic in a way, but I'm gonna say it is the recent pickup that's actually on its way to PSA right now. 2020 Prism Gold Kayla McBride, non Linx card. And I think maybe that's why it doesn't get the, like, love.

But I, for me, you know, I'm not a Links fan, so I didn't care. I'm more of like a a wow, she's an incredible player. And she went to Notre Dame, and she this is a debut. So that card, I would say, probably fits the mold.

But yeah, man. I I was telling my wife, it's like, I am convinced every time I watch McBride play, she doesn't miss. Like, she it's like it's like she's the best shooter in the WNBA. Like, she doesn't miss.

Like, she's doesn't miss. And I think, like, you know, with Minnesota, like, team's great. Coach is great. Obviously, fee MVP. But she's so important. Like, she just doesn't miss. So, yeah. That card, I'm I'm happy to own it.

That's a great one to shout. Yeah. If if she was in a Lynx jersey, it would have been an immediate buy, and you wouldn't have had the opportunity but I'm happy for you that you got your Notre Dame alum in there.

One note on K Mac is just, like, if you guys haven't tuned in to some Lynx games, which at this point you probably should, her quick release is one of the best in sports in general and basketball in general.

And seeing that is just so fun.

She's such a good shooter. I just I just love it so much. That's a great one to shout out. Okay. Last question. Last award of the show today is MVP. And, it makes sense what my MVP is, which is the, hopefully, MVP of this season.

Nafissa Collier, twenty twenty prism gold out of 10, sitting in a PSA eight holder. Love this card so much. Picked it up two nationals ago from Anne Marie at Women on Tops in a Trade.

Just an incredible card, the centerpiece of my WNBA collection, the centerpiece of my fee six pack. By far my most favorite favorite and treasured card in my collection.

Amazing card. I will go with my, select Clark gold, out of 10 concourse PSA 10. Most expensive WNBA card I bought. I knew the market was just gonna be nuts for Clark, and glad I bought that card when I did.

So that's the MVP of my collection for sure. Makes sense that the MVPs are probably two of our favorite players on our favorite teams. So incredible.

That was a fun question. Thanks, Carter, for writing that up. That was a fun exercise. We'll see you guys next week. Excited to continue to deliver this content to you guys each and every week. Thanks for being here. Thanks, everyone.