Welcome back, loyal listeners, of the stacking slabs podcast to season three, episode eight of the WNBA card podcast.

My name is Caitlin. I go by at cold lunch cards, mostly on the Instagram machine, but a couple other places on the Internet as well.

And I'm joined by my amazing cohost, Brett McGrath at stacking slabs, and we're excited to continue to deliver collector driven and community focused content to your headphones, to your stereo, to your radio, to your speaker, to wherever you're listening to us today.

We appreciate you guys being along for the ride.

And this episode, we've got a lot in store. I'm super excited, personally, about this episode, and I'm feeling good about it. Brett, how are you doing? I'm well. I am kind of on pins and needles over here.

We are I feel like at any moment based on the update, my wife got at the doctor that we could have our third daughter enter stacking slabs HQ. Like, the time is ticking, so life is about to get really crazy.

We are starting a WNBA developmental team here at stacking slabs HQ. By the time these three girls, you know, enter high school, they're not gonna be tall. I can tell them that.

I can tell you that, but we're trying to make them WNBA ready because when dad retires after I sell stacking slabs to some monster media conglomerate, all I wanna do is travel the country and watch my daughters ball out.

So that's that's what's going on right now, in my hand. It's kinda sick, but exciting at the same time. That is awesome.

Congratulations. I can't wait for that news to come out about, your your wife and and you guys expanding your family. That's so exciting. And, building a a roster of w m future WNBA players sounds like it's not for the faint of heart.

So I wish you good luck, Brett. But I I know that you can do it. I'm excited to see how that goes. We're we're we're talking about a card that you picked up, and we're gonna spend basically the entire episode.

And I know you had to wait a little bit, so I assume you're doing pretty well because this whole episode is based on one of your pickups.

Yes. Super excited, to talk today about that card. Before we get into it because once we get into this, like, I'm going to go off the rails and just completely forget about, what we have to cover before we get into it.

So why don't we start by talking about our sponsors today? I wanted to shout out Great Lakes Trading Cards, our official local card shop of the WNBA card podcast.

If you guys are in my neck of the woods in Saint Paul, Minnesota, take a stop off Randolph Ave over by Saint Kate's. Talk to Chris and Spence, and they've got a lot of WNBA cards available over there among other things.

But just an awesome shop. We appreciate them supporting season three of the pod. And I think we've got one other sponsor that we usually shout out here, Brett, if you don't mind.

We do our good friends at Card Ladder. Card Ladder is a big supporter of the WBA card podcast and community, the official data provider of the broader network.

We love our good friends at Card Ladder for supporting what we're doing. Go sign up for Card Ladder today. Love it. Alright. Let's get into it, Brett. Okay. So we have been talking offline about a pickup that was headed your way.

I think it took a little longer than typical, which for anyone out there buying cards in December, which I would imagine are is most of you because the card buying never really stops, Expect delays in cards that you're shipping or cards coming your way.

It's every year, I have to remind myself that. It's a part of it. There's so much mail going on. But you have been talking about this card to me.

And when you told me that you acquired this card, instantly, in my head, it was like, I was pumped for you because it was not only a great card, and we're gonna talk about the card and unveil it, but it just was a perfect fit.

And it as I was thinking about planning for this episode, I thought about the fact that, you know, as collectors, we're constantly, trying to navigate if we buy certain cards.

We talk we have a podcast about it. We both really enjoy WNBA collecting and cards. But sometimes, we see a card that we think is cool, and it distracts us.

And we're like, oh, that's a cool card. Let's buy the card. And other times and I think this is one of those instances where there's a just a card that becomes available, and it's, meant for a specific collection.

And I thought that, like, dynamic between, distraction and intention would be a good theme, today.

So let's let's start here. I'm gonna bring it up on the screen for everyone on the Patreon, and I'm gonna have you because this is your card. Okay. Open up and share with the listeners.

We'll just start here. What is the card, and then, why this card matters? And I wasn't necessarily planning on this, but I think we should. Like, any deal mechanics or wait whatever you wanna say about this card, like, go for it.

Okay. So let's let's start with the card itself, while Brett pulls it up. And I did post it on Instagram because I was just so excited. I posted it before this episode will air because I just couldn't help it.

But the card that I acquired was the 2,019 Don Ross WNBA Nafissa Collier Nafissa Collier optic gold rated rookie out of 10, and it is encased in a PSA authentic holder.

Just let that sit there for a second. I just this is just such a beautiful card.

It means so much to me. I think we're gonna get into the nitty gritty of why that is, how much it means to me, what it represents in my collection, what it represents, in terms of what I'm building and the patience that went into it.

But, yeah, the card the card itself, the deal mechanics, I was just I knew about this card.

I had seen a bunch of them before. I I know I knew of its existence now for a while since I became a fan of fee. And, when one landed in my inbox and kinda was dangled in front of me as a, hey.

This this could be available at some point in the future, I knew I had to make it happen. And so, to finally land it and then for it to hit a delay in shipping, the delayed gratification was incredibly rewarding.

And I'm just so stoked, to have this one in my collection just means a lot. The dangling of this card in your inbox, obviously, when you see it, you know you want it.

Also, this isn't like a $25. 50 dollar card that you can just oh, we'll buy this and see what happens. This is a more expensive card. It is from the debut WNBA set, as a Panini release. This is your favorite player.

This is there's 10 copies of this. It has all of these elements. How did you, I guess, how did you process, like, when you knew how much you were gonna have to pay for it if this was a decision that you needed to make in that moment?

Like, how did the the money side of it, like, how did yourself around it?

I did have to, like, jump through some mental hoops because I think this card, when I rack and stack my collection, is definitely in, like, the top five of most expensive cards that I have in my collection, meaning that I spent a pretty penny on it.

And and my first thing that I think about when I purchase any card, whether it's a dollar or a thousand dollars or more or, you know, whatever it may be, is that I don't wanna over leverage myself because this is a hobby, and it's supposed to be having fun.

And, unfortunately, there is a financial aspect to the hobby that we have to be realistic about, and I don't have an unlimited budget.

So my first thought was figuring out just how realistic it was, what kind of shuffling needed to happen, and if that that necessary shuffling was worth it to me.

And and we'll get into that, I think. But I think, the financial side of things, well well, my first has my first reaction was kind of hesitation just because of the the number that was thrown out there.

It it really could have been double. It really could have been double. The number could have been double, and I would have had to figure it out.

And, like, it that's just how much I want this card. I almost need it. Like, it feels like a need as opposed to a want, which is crazy because it's just a piece of cardboard.

But, yeah, it was just so important that the financial aspect was kind of an afterthought, which is very exciting and, like, privileging to say that I had cards in my collection, like, equity in my collection or in my inventory that I could, use to kind of, like, fund this.

But I was just super excited that the the number really didn't matter at all. I just figured it out. I'm sure the seller of the card, is listening in and, likely is like, man, I shoulda just doubled it.

No. He knows. Yeah. We'll shout out the seller too. The seller is actually at not Jason Dardick on Instagram, who Brett was our first ever collector of the week spotlight.

So the first call? Fitting. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. That's amazing. Okay. So what we're gonna do with this card as the example is kinda unpack some themes we all go through as collectors.

We're going to kinda dig into discipline, identity focus, patience, what it takes to kinda stay in your lane. And we're gonna just use this incredible fee card as kind of the, the example. So let's start with the specifics of this card.

What is it about the twenty nineteen optical feed that made you and I know we've talked about your, like, six pack challenge, but what is it about this card that you felt like, as you just said, you needed to have this?

Yeah. So let's start with the set itself, which you touched on, which is that this is the debut set for Panini, aka, you know, a a really transitional time for both the WNBA, but also the WNBA card collecting community.

It it kind of marked the pivot, I would say, in the hobby from WNBA card collectors being treated kind of as second class fans with, like, a less known or second class citizens or fans being, provided.

Rittenhouse was just less well known, not as much priority.

Whereas now, with Panini entering the fold, WNBA card collectors can see parallels, no no pun intended there, but parallels across lanes and feel more prioritized as a community.

Add in the fact that you have the Don Ross brand, which is an iconic brand, the allure of the parallel itself, and the added aspect of the fact that this is a Chase card in the set.

It's it's it's something that really drives the value of that product.

And then pour on top the rated rookie brand, and you just get this perfect mix of ingredients to create a card that has a lot of meaningful, kind of, like, cornerstone aspects of it.

And then just the the cherry on top is the fact that it's Nafisa Collier.

Like, it's it's just like all the things that I'm looking for in terms of, importance and meaningfulness on a card that gold optic part of it just feels it just feels correct.

It just feels important, especially when you hold it in hand.

You know, looking at this card, because I'm just staring at this card, which is an awesome card, While I'm so happy for you, I'm also just this is making me so disappointed that the optic wasn't in the Don Rosset as it was 2019 for the latest one.

And see, we've we've talked about this, but I'm I'm still going on record that I think, especially based on looking at this, that this this is a miss because you've got a fee in the debut rated rookie.

It's like you're just checking all the boxes. Like, what else? What do you need? Like, first year, rookie, goal, like, all down the list.

And that could have been replicated with this rookie class, which maybe isn't as hyped as the Clark rookie class, but a damn good rookie class with at least, like, four or five, players that could be players that we're talking about ten years from now.

Yeah. Absolutely. I think that it almost, like, in a kind of backwards way makes me appreciate this card even more that at the moment, at least, there is no follow-up.

It was one and done. It was everything that it tried to be, and a follow-up almost felt, unimaginable and unattainable.

I so that makes me like this card even more is that it's just kind of a stand alone iconic card. Wanna ask maybe so I'm thinking through this.

Maybe a more personal question regarding this card. Yeah. If this is more from the lens of, like, maybe how I cope and bring collecting into that, Is do you think based on and I don't wanna, you know, bring up a sort of subject.

But do you think based on the way things went for the links this year, do you find yourself, like, gravitating towards collecting links or collecting fee cards as a way to make yourself feel better kinda as that period drags out until next season starts.

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up, Brett. That's really exciting to talk about.

Absolutely. Yeah. Not only does it feel almost like therapeutic to have my Linx fandom kind of even even more emphasized with the heartbreaking losses and ending to the seasons, including an injury to feet.

But it does also bring in this aspect of this feels like a discount. This feels like the time to buy for me, which as a collector doesn't hurt. That that really helps with the purchase.

So it does play a role, but I would say it's more of a therapeutic role than, like, a financial role in that I can kind of, it just demonstrates to me my how strong my fandom is of Nafissa Collier and of the lengths because despite, the disappointing past two seasons that were, like, truly, like, truly heartbreaking as a fan.

I still want her cards, and I still think she's gonna be great.

I still think we're gonna win. That that demonstrates to me just how strong that allegiance is, and this card is a representation of that. Let's dig into maybe the sacrifice. Yeah.

And the you just mentioned that this card is, you know, a top five more most expensive card in your collection, which takes some level of sacrifice because you you you have to think through it, and you have to think through resources.

Maybe talk about just how you process the sacrifice and, like, what that look like in order to acquire a card like this.

Yeah. So I think part of the equation of sacrifice is understanding the stakes at hand. And what I mean by that is the rarity of this card. So there's only 10 copies. Right?

That's where I wanna start is there's only 10 copies, and there's six others graded numerically by PSA, bringing the total pop to seven or 70% of the total, population of this card, which to me just signals, like, you know, this isn't there's not a lot of opportunity here to pick these up.

Somebody got them graded.

Somebody sees the worth in them. And I had identified, I think, three to five other collectors that had a copy in some grade of this card or raw. And, each and every one of them, respectfully, told me to go away and that my offers yeah.

Whereas that they love this card. The offer was the offers that I made were competitive, but they believe that the card was undervalued, and they and they didn't wanna let it go, which I understand completely.

But so in my head, I I lay this context and this foundation down to say, in terms of sacrifice, I also have to understand that the stakes are higher because the availability of this card is so much lower.

So when this one popped into my Instagram inbox from Jason, and said, you know, this could be available at one point, just not today, I decided at that moment that, like, it it had to be done.

The sacrifices had to be made. It was kinda nice to have that ramp up period of both preparation, but also, like, bracing for a price, because we didn't agree on a price when he told me it was available.

He just said this is going to become available. And when he when he showed up to me, it was raw. He told me about the condition aspects of it. People are probably like, why is that in a PSA authentic? It's got a little nail mark on it.

It's not perfect. And and, anyways, I'll I'll add some context too to the story of this card is that Jason told me of this older local collector near him, who had amassed a pretty impressive WMBA collection.

And Jason went over to his place to check it out, and, he the guy told Jason you could you could pick out a couple cards that you wanna purchase, and he has a great eye. If you guys follow Jason, you know that.

He picked out this one. And like I said, he he noticed the shape was that it's not in perfect condition, but that he thought it would be worth it to get it protected and to show up in the population report.

It really demonstrates the full I think, like, seeing seven copies of the 10 in a PSA grade really demonstrates how, desired this card is because people really wanna protect it.

So, anyways, he gets it graded by PSA, comes back authentic as he requested, and then we circle back with the price.

And the price comes back, and it's two times what I want to pay. And I was like, damn. I I hesitated, but I said, you know, let's let's negotiate a little bit.

Got it below that two x, and came down. And once we agreed to a price, the card was still at PSA. Like, it was still it had, like, unveiled. Right? But it wasn't in his hands.

So between the time that PSA shipped it back to Jason, I sold off what I called my, like, long term hold inventory, which were these cards that I had picked up for what I thought was, like, a pretty decent price of prospects, hoping to sell them in April at the Minnesota card show where I do most of my selling.

So I sold, like, two Juju Watkin autograph. I sold a Game You Sarah Strong patch auto out of 25.

I sold some Mikaela Blakes. I sold a Jewel Lloyd 2019 gold laser, and got some funds to just kinda, like, cushion my bank account for when I had to pay this out. So I didn't wanna be, like, completely out of pocket.

Just doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good to see, like, money leave your bank account. So I I prepared for it and sacrificed a couple things in trade as well so I didn't have to feel it, quote, unquote, as much.

But once again, once it got here, it it was all worth it. That sacrifice, I I could could care less about the cards that I got rid of.

I want, incredible description. I wanna we were talking before we hit record about this element of paying more than anybody else, and this is there's a factor of, like, market conditions, people having these cards but not selling them.

And you get to this point where you're, like, you're aware of, like, comps and the history of comps, but you're not, like, you're not letting that drive your purchase.

You're more prioritizing, like, access. You're like, holy shit. I've got access to this card.

Yeah. And I think this is such a critical piece that a lot of collectors it's a hurdle we have to overcome in order to get cards like this that are worthy enough for us to do an entire podcast episode about like, explain that.

Explain that process for you as you you obviously, money's important, but there are these cards that just hit all of these elements for us as collectors, this being one of them for you where you're you're you don't really even care about what has taken place.

You are buying this card to lock it down, and you have such a strong belief about its ability to maybe grow in value in the future.

Talk about that dynamic. It's a tough dynamic, especially as somebody I feel like I'm one of my weaknesses is collect in collecting is kind of being married to the cops.

Like, I just see them. They're such a powerful tool, and they they can really distract you from the intrinsic or sentimental value of a specific card.

And I knew that I wanted this card so much because that intrinsic and sentimental value was so much more than what the market had said. The comps, were much I was like, I would pay that.

I would pay that. I would pay that. I went down the list of comps, and suddenly, I'm at the highest comp ever, and I'm like, I would pay more than that. And I ended up setting, you know, like, the highest fee sale ever.

Of course, it's not in card ladder at the moment because it was a private sale, but I felt comfortable at that price because of the fact that the delta between what the market decided and what I decided, that feeling was so strong that that was a gap that it it it didn't make sense to me.

It physically didn't make sense. I there's not a sailing card letter of a fee card over $2. That's crazy to me. To me, I'm like, hello. Hello. Flashing lights. Opportunity. Opportunity.

This is what I believe to be the best player and my favorite player ever. Like, we we can people can make their decisions about best and what that means, but we'll stick with favorite because that's a lot less controversial.

They're my favorite player ever, and it's my favorite card of hers ever. Like, you're telling me I only have to pay up a little bit more or, you know, relatively up a little bit more? Hell, yeah. That's the easiest yes of my life.

I'll figure it out. There's just no need to be stuck on what other people think it's worth. If I genuinely believe that it is is more meaningful to me than the person who paid x amount a month ago or ten months ago or ten years ago.

You know, whatever it is. I just feel like that that gap was so strong and that I felt like it was it was too small that I needed to just I need to pull the trigger.

I wanna just emphasize this for the audience. And if you are listening to this podcast, the likelihood of you collecting WNBA cards is very high, and you probably already know this.

But the the I need to put emphasis on this. Like, it is undeniable, whoever your team is, whoever your favorite player is, that Nafissa Collier is a top three player in the WNBA, and she's been that way for a long time.

And you just said, like, there hasn't been a fee card sell for over $2,000. And to me, that's beyond insanity. I like and I don't wanna, like, make it sound like two k is not a lot of money.

It certainly is a lot of money. But I I I think we should all think about that and consider the opportunity ahead for this market and especially if it's been a market you've been in for a long time.

The the anyway, I cut it, and I spend so much time in card ladder. We do this podcast every week, so I'm constantly looking in data.

Anyway, I cut it. To me, it it it always looks like there is so much value to be had in buying WNBA cards, and I think that is such a fun place to be in, and I look in other categories, niche categories.

I'll take wrestling, for instance. Looking at wrestling cards, like, I can't I can't find a card that I'm interested in that's under a thousand bucks, and that just doesn't make sense to me.

And so, like, I I detract from, like, going and exploring that lane too much. But but I feel more comfortable in WNBA collecting because of examples like this. It's like, wow.

Like, there's so much opportunity for value, and I don't wanna, like, be aggressive saying this by saying, like, go run and buy WNBA cards, but I just I feel very strongly about this, especially as someone who studies these markets regularly.

That that is crazy. That is crazy that there hasn't been an two k sale or above for a fee card publicly, so I just I needed to let that out.

I I love it. Let it all out, Brett. I completely agree. It screams opportunity, and then you add the fandom to it, and it's like, damn.

How can you pass that up? You you just can't pass it up. So I wanna hit focus in, versus distraction. Sure. You are out of everybody, I I don't know another Nafisa Collier fan is passionate as you.

I've told you you're her number one fan, and I I believe that, based on my network of people. It is very apparent, like, she means a lot to you, and Yeah. That's you collect her cards.

But you also then go buy other cards because you see opportunities. For instance, you made mention that you there was a jewel Lloyd '20 19 gold laser and some other cards that you sold in order to help cushion this you buying this card.

How do you think does a sale like this or the buying a card, does it make you, feel like you wanna focus more on fee and less on the buying opportunities or that around buying cards of players that you maybe don't care about as much or something different?

Like, maybe talk through kind of that element of, buying a player like Fi and a card that you love versus continuing to maybe just buy cards that you think can sell well down the road.

It's a double edged sword, I think. Like, when I got it in hand, I was like, why do I not collect just fee?

That was, like, my first thought. I was like, the excitement and joy and, like, actual happiness and reflection that happened happened upon opening this card was just so strong.

And, like, only other card collectors can get that feeling. They they understand what I mean when I say that.

But in terms of kind of, like, the card recentering me or anchoring me, It it's like I said, it's a double edged sword because without the cards that I bought, I probably wouldn't have felt as comfortable to buy this card, like those ones that I moved.

And so for that, I'm thankful to them. And, like, I've always said I've said it multiple times on this podcast that some cards, you know, their purpose is to be a vehicle to other cards, and that's totally okay.

And without those vehicle cards, who knows if I had this? Who knows if I would have felt empowered or confident enough both financially, but also just, like, personally to purchase it.

So with that being said, as much as I would love to say, I'm only going to buy this card, this card, and this card. Go down the list. At the same time, life happens, and cool cards come out that you don't think about.

Hype gets the best of you sometimes in that making those kind of quote, unquote mistakes or or, you know, falling victim to the feeling kind of, like, impulsive buying.

Like, those things help you learn and grow what you like. You know? I I always say, like, both in work, but also personally is, like, sometimes knowing what you don't like is just as important as knowing what you do like.

And those cards that operate as those vehicles can show you what you don't like, which will lead you to the road of what you do like, which I like the FISA Collier.

Like, that that is it. And so when I think about this card, it does really refocus me. It helps me feel like, okay, Caitlin.

You're on the right track. You're building a collection that you like. This is kind of the centerpiece of your fee collection. What does that mean? Where do you go from from now? What what does that reflection exercise look like?

And to me, it's just so rewarding. Like, I look at this card. I had it out on my desk the other day because I just wanted to look at it. There was no need to put it away. I was like, oh, this thing is beautiful.

I worked really hard for this, both, like, the money that I put into it, the relationship that led me to that point, the cards that I sacrificed to get it, the educational path that I went on to discover it and understand the importance of it, all these things add up and feed into the card that now lives in that card.

And I just I just love it so much that it it does really ground me in my collection. It makes me feel like I'm I'm I'm on the right track.

So looking at this card on your Instagram page, the and I love the presentation you have with the way you display your cards, but you've got I'm looking at this card, which is a rookie card.

And on the other side is fee with the arm sleeve, putting the ball up, likely going in the net. I look at the rated rookie of it all. Right? That's symbolic. And but I looked I'm looking at fees face, and she looks younger.

Yep. It it this is like the definition of a rookie card. She doesn't look as like, her arms don't look as strong. She doesn't look as, like, pro ready is and you just, like, compare the side by side look.

And it's I think this is the fun part about rookie cards where it's like, wow. They look like a baby, and then, wow. Look at them. Now it's like molding into a superstar mode.

So to me, like, I've gone either way on, like, I'll have these moments where I'll be like, man, rookie cards are so special, then I'll have these other moments being like, well, why don't people pay more attention to these, like, rare and scarce parallels?

But I think in this example where there's not a lot of if he used to call you a rookie card Yeah. Like, seeing this one, in in that, in those early days is is pretty cool.

Absolutely. It it kinda reminds me, like, for lack of a better parallel between lanes. It reminds me of, like, Giannis's rookie cards where he looks like a little baby.

Like, he looks young, and this is, like, young Fi. And, yeah, then I I put the how I know of Fi, which is, like, this grown ass woman who's just dominating, next to it.

But, yeah, this this this card is just so awesome. I I love the photography choice too because it just brings you back to a certain time.

Like, she just looks she looks young. She doesn't look as strong. She doesn't look as experienced, but at the same time, like, she doesn't know what's in store for her.

Like, she's gonna be one of the best players in the league. I just yeah. It's just super cool to look at. I'm I'm staring at this background photo too, and I just love how K.

Mac? Yeah. Just give me the ball. She's doing what she does. Maybe behind the line, like, with her hands out. Just give me the ball. Absolutely. I I I thought about that when I picked the photo.

You know, I spend I spend way too much time than I'd like to admit on picking the photos that I use for my Instagram, and the K MAC just made sense because, like, only Kayla McBride would be like, fees open.

She's doing, like, her thing. Give me the ball.

Like, it it's just hilarious. Yeah. It just She's earning that right. Yeah. She does. She does. And, I know that if he thought that was the right decision, K Mac woulda got that ball, but, you know, she was gonna handle business here.

No doubt. The other thing is I'm obsessing over this photo because I think it's a great photo. Is is Fi always roll the shorts like that? I I would say, yeah. It looks it looks like she did. I I think that's her thing.

I don't know. She knew what she wants to wear pants. I don't care. Okay. Let's talk about, like, maybe the emotional aftermath. Has anything changed for you, or was anything reinforced with this card landing, at home in your collection?

I don't think anything changed. I think one part that you hit on in a question that I did not address earlier was kind of my ecosystem of fee cards, and I wanted to address that.

It kinda fits in here of, like, I'm building this six pack, which for listeners of the pod, they know what I'm talking about.

But if you're new here, I have created guardrails in my fee collection so that I do not go overboard because I would be buying every silver prism, every orange prism, every purple prism, like, every single card of hers because I just love her.

I think she's great. But I've created a guardrail, a system of, chases of six cards that then create a six pack.

And this card is kind of the number one card in that six pack. It's the one that I felt really showed fee. It was attainable in some sense. It it is a rookie card. It's the only rookie card in that six pack.

And so when I got it and I kinda, like, checked that off the list, I was like, my my first thought of the the only sense of doubt that I had was, do I need these other cards now, or is this is this it?

Do I go to my one card PC type of thing? And I immediately thought, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Like, I love all these cards.

This is just the one that gets put front and center. And so to me, this this to me, represents, like, the best fee card that I'll ever own. Obviously, the one of one optical vinyl exists. It's out there. We've seen it.

But I just don't think that's reasonable or attainable for me, so we're just shoving that in the box and removing that from the possibility. So to me, this is the best card that I will ever get of my favorite player of all time.

Favorite player of all time across all sports, by the way, across all teams. Wow. I did that that is, breaking news here. I don't know didn't know if I knew that. That's impressive. She is.

And she was competing with, Perk Rogers for that reward, but but fee fee to me, like, she wins it because of not only her on the play court, not only the fact that she plays for my Minnesota links, not only the fact that she has so many parallels between her and another favorite player of mine, Maya Moore.

But that fee is like and I write about this in this book of a caption that I read on Instagram. The part for me that puts fee above all else in terms of fandom is that off the court stuff.

I value it so much. I value it so much. This woman came back from giving birth to her daughter after seventy four days and became 10 times better of a player. That like, that's unimaginable to me.

That that's that's a different kind of level of competition and want. You know what I mean? To to want it that bad, to to wanna be that great, it's it's it represents a lot to me. And then you add in the entrepreneur aspect of things.

You add in that she founded her own freaking league. What that's not a normal behavior. That's not something that people just go casually do. It's valued at over $300,000,000 after a year. That's success.

That's winning. She's a winner. And then you add on top of all of that the pushback to pay players fail fair fairly to, address executives, with no fear, to show confidence, to show change making ability, to be a trailblazer.

She she is all of the things that I look for, not only in an athlete, but in a person. And to have her play on my favorite team, how can she not be my favorite?

Like, she's just the best. Now that I'm off my soapbox about that. No. That was awesome. We spent over thirty minutes talking about one pickup, which was this has been fun.

I this has been awesome. I've really enjoyed learning about your mindset mentality. Any advice or anything you wanna share with just other collectors who might be in a similar or adjacent position? Just figure out what you like.

There's no need I I would say, like, I I did share the other side of it, which is that, like, you know, if you pick up something that you don't necessarily love, hopefully, that'll inform a better decision.

And I think that just leads into this bigger picture of, like, knowing what you like is so empowering as a collector.

Figuring out, like, truly knowing what your chase cards are, what your grail cards are, and being like when you get them, it just makes it it just makes them all sweeter.

So stay focused. Figure out what you like, whether it be through experimentation or whether it be through patience. Both those avenues, especially combined, can be really, really, really rewarding.

Congratulations on the pickup. It is time to talk about pick sale of the week, card monitor confidential, or mixing up shows right now. I've had I've had sick kids all week, so that's been, it's December. Anyone with kids knows it.

But there there is a car that I spotted, and I looked at your notes, Caitlin, and I had the exact same reaction. I I said, and and I for all you OGW fans who are, like, been in it for a long time, that is not me.

Yeah. It you know, I probably seriously paying attention to league, You know, I was in I was paying attention when, you know, the fever were having their championship runs, and then it was probably, like, 2018, 2019.

2019 when I really started to watch. So there's, like, There's this, like, area where I just like, some of the players I'm I'm unfamiliar with, and this is one of them.

But the the it was the card. And so I'm gonna have you, Caitlin. I'm gonna introduce the card that in the sale.

I'm gonna have you run down the credentials, and I'm gonna talk about why I picked this card. The sale was the 1999 Ultra WNBA Edna Campbell masterpiece, one of one in an authentic altered, PSA slab.

This card sold at auction, on Fanatics for $552. Now I selected this card without knowing much about Edna Campbell. And Caitlin, I did exactly what you did, and I'm gonna have you, like, educate the audience on who Edna Campbell is.

But what was interesting to me was the fact that a masterpiece one of one sold, and it sold for well under a thousand bucks, $552, which is still a lot of money.

But, again, this is like you go into the nineties and any other category, and people are talking about masterpieces, no one no put no one's buying a masterpiece player, one of one, for under a thousand bucks at all, like, in any category.

But then you look over in the WNBA and you see a card like this, which this is a rookie card too. And this sold for, you know, $552.

So that was interesting to me, and it aligns with kind of this theme that we've been talking about of just, like, every sale I look at, I'm always just like, holy cow. There's so much room. Yeah. But I just talked a lot.

Maybe what did you learn about Edna Campbell? Yeah. So that was the first thought to that came to my mind because similar to Brett, I have not I wasn't born when this card came out, so I had no clue who Edna Campbell was.

So I was like, who is Edna Campbell? And, like, her Wikipedia page come up it came up, and I'll read you, like, the headline.

The five foot eight guard played with the Sacramento monarchs as well as three other teams, but is well known for continuing to play despite suffering breast cancer.

And to me, I was like, woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Things just got a lot more serious. Things just got a lot more impressive for Edna Campbell.

I I I then did some research on, you know, who she played for and those types of things, which was she played for the Colorado explosion in the ABL between 1996 and 1998 before joining the WNBA, where she played for seven years, four teams.

She was drafted by the Mercury and averaged seven points per game, 1. 7 rebounds per game, and 1.

4 assists per game throughout her WNBA career. Those stats are not eye popping. But to me, the story of, you know, getting diagnosed with breast cancer and continuing to play through that is incredible. Like, it has to that's a moment.

That's a person who really, like, represented something bigger than the game, which to me, I think always translates to cards. And then you add in the historical element of the card itself, which is, you know, iconic parallel, a rookie.

If you guys aren't on Patreon and watching this, I'd I'd really implore you to look up the card because I think it's beautiful.

But it's just it's just awesome to to hear stories like this that, you know, before I was paying attention, before a lot of us were paying attention, there were women that took this shit seriously and really, like, paved the way for what we have today.

Like, this woman played through cancer to play basketball. Like, shit. $500? That's the least we could do for her people.

Like, I feel like this is just, yeah, it's just awesome. You know, what is so, I'm learning about Edna Campbell for the first time, and I think the way you described her tees up what I'm about to say perfectly.

But if you really look at the card, first of all, the layering and everything, the design like, the this card has got it going on, I think. It's a great looking card.

But if you look at Edna, you just look at Edna. Just look at her. You can see some sweat glistening on her neck. She just had a practice, and now she's snapping her rookie card. You don't they don't they don't do them like that anymore.

How you can see the sweat, the perspiration on her. Like, she literally just got off the practice court, snapped the photo, and was like, peace. Somebody will talk about this on a podcast, you know, a new place.

But I think that's cool. Yeah. Absolutely a great pick here, Brett. This was a cool rabbit hole to go down, and, like, this is what kind of this old school dare I'm not gonna say the word vintage, but just know it popped into my head.

The that that era of WNBA cards can open up a lot of stories. The this opened one up for me that I just think is so cool, and just just an incredible card.

Congrats. I'd love to know who bought it and if they knew that about Edna Campbell or if they were just drawn to the card. I just love to learn more about what drove, the buyer to buy this one.

Something a debate I always wrestle with, which disqualifies that you can call this vintages. If you weren't born yet when the card was produced, it's okay to refer to it as a vintage card.

Yeah. Pretty soon, we're there's, like, kids alive that, like, they're gonna call the fee repeat. They did it soon, so be prepared. Oh, okay. So we are I I don't have any pickups, obviously.

I don't think outside we spent the first thirty minutes talking about one of yours. Should we move over to collector spotlight? Yeah. Let's do it. Let's let's spotlight the collector of the week.

I'm I'm excited, Brett, to share this account. I think it's finally time, that this account gets shared with the community. Somehow this account has under 1,000 followers despite some absolute bangers.

And when I say bangers, I mean, like, like, really some bangers, that they have in their collection. The the user is at thomas shelby c c on Instagram. They're collecting some of Caitlin Clark's best cards.

And I would say, at the bare minimum, it's admirable admirable. And at the top of the range here, we've got borderline crazy. This is a collector that's so dedicated and deeply focused on Caitlin Clark cards.

As an example, one of the things that they're building out there is like, follow me here, is all of the twenty twenty four select Caitlin Clark draft selection signatures read auto out of 99.

Not just one of those, which I think is, like, a collection making piece itself, but all of them. They've got, like, 20 copies spread. Like, this is this is an insane account.

This is about as dedicated as it gets, and I'd invite everyone to go look at this page and really go through the real videos because there'll be a stack of cards, say, 20 cards deep, and every single one of them, you're like, what?

Oh, and then there's another one, and there's another one. So this is a cool page. Wanted to shout it out. Deserves a lot more followers than what it has and just showcases some of the really high end Clark cards that are out there.

I was I spent this entire time while you're talking, try to pulling pulling up Thomas's page in, either shadowbanned or has stack stacking slash blocked.

Yeah. Because I yeah. I I literally I've tried everything. I can't pull it up, but I'll just I'll take your word for it.

Okay. Well, for people that are on the Patreon There we go. It's right here. I must be some sort of restriction. Thomas, if you're there, tell please DM me and tell me why you blocked Brett.

That's, like, actually hilarious if that's the case. It's probably just your Instagram acting up. It's yeah. When it's when you're on the when you're on the desktop, also, like, yeah, give me an unblock.

We're we're we're promoting your page. Come on. You on the desktop, it it's like, it never works for me, and I've, yeah, it's so I will blame it on that for now.

I'm actually dying. That's hilarious. I mean, that was not planned at all. So that's like that got me. Okay. Well, let's move on from that. I'm gonna go check out the page unless you're Brett, in which case, don't check out the page.

But I do I collect I like Caitlin Clark. So it's like, dude, like, I'm a buyer if you're selling. What what do you do? Oh, that's that's hilarious.

Okay. Let's let's get serious here, Brad. We have we have a question from the mailbag today. We're just gonna do one for time person for, time reasons. But we have from at one in a million, which is a great, user.

They asked the question that we're gonna expand upon. They asked, will Adi Crooks, play style translate to the WNBA? And so what we did is we expanded this question to include, I think, one, two, three, four, five players.

And Brett and I are gonna give our abbreviated opinions on whether or not we think their play style will translate to the league. So let's start with one in a millions, prompt, which is Adi Crooks.

Can I try, like, something before we address this? Yeah. I had this conversation on another podcast, and we're talking it was football related, and we're talking about, like, prospects and translating the pros.

And, my my take on all of this generally is what would happen if all the scouts for a year this is WNBA related too.

Just threw out the potential and what we think could happen and just said, these are the biggest badasses in college. Let's just draft them first. I mean, think about Angel Reese.

Like, it's absolutely absurd that where she got drafted. And what she got get drafted there. And, like, every year, it's over and over. So that's where I'm coming at from this, and that that's I think that's fun to think.

I think these GMs overthink things sometimes. It's like, just draft the best player who's proven it. You know? 100% agree. Not to, like, keep bringing up fee, but fee going number six overall is also insane to me.

Like, that's another. It's not like she wasn't producing in college. Like, what are we doing, folks? Yeah. I I think that's an interesting take. I think, it wouldn't make it very long in the war room of an of an idea, Brett.

I don't know if they would like that. I think they want to They tell me to get out. Okay. So if you were drafting, and we're talking about Audi crooks to start, do you think her play style would translate to a dozen?

Yes. I've seen enough. Lit like, I have seen enough. I I want I want Audi crooks on the fever. We need an Audi crooks on the fever.

So I'm greed they talk about in the Bible, folks. I want Audi crooks on the fever. Yeah. Okay, Brett. Okay. But she's captivating. Yeah. She's different. I think she can ball out. So I I'm all on board there. Yeah. I agree.

I think I draw parallels in her game, just with, like, her stature and her play style between her and you know, Alyssa Peely had more three point shooting ability, but, like, a similar type of game, and that didn't really work out.

So not to inject any doubt, but I'll be curious to see how it goes depending on the team that she's at.

I think if you work around her, it's gonna be really good. But, like, a team like the fever, I don't know if that's the place that's going to breed the best of her because of the way that that team plays.

The fast paced kind of, like, shooting, it could either go really well and be complimentary, or it could really hinder her potential if she's not kind of the the number one option. So I'll be interested. I have faith.

I I think she's a top 10 player in college basketball right now. And I think if she continues on the route that she's at, she'll be set up for success in the WNBA. I think it can translate. It's just about the surrounding pieces.

She's certainly captivated by collectors. I see a ton of her cards being posted. People are into what she's doing and buying her cards. Yeah. I I love it too. Like and it's also, like, another Iowa thing going on.

Something about the water in Iowa, you collectors are, like, actually, like, possessed. When, like, there's an athlete that represents Iowa, I think it does go an extra mile because of the the lack of pro sports teams there.

No doubt. Okay. Next player, Mikaela Blake's. You've been on the you've been on the the Mikaela Blake's bandwagon for quite some time, and I'm I'm just you feel very strongly about her.

So I'm I'm just gonna say that I think based on the way she can score the ball, she'll be just fine. Absolutely. 100% agree.

I see her, like, kind of, like, ceiling being similar to, Enrique. I think, like, in terms of just, like, this is a person that needs to shoot the ball and to get to the hoop and to not play with any sort of form of hesitancy.

I think she could translate really well. It's just about keeping that confidence there and keeping a coach that says you've got the green light. Just just go for it. Okay.

Next up, number three, Joyce Edwards of South Carolina Gamecocks. I I've I will say this. I have the biggest struggle with Don's kids because I just think they're all good because they're on South Carolina, and they're all balling out.

And I I've been wrong, and yeah. I'd I I yeah. I have this is the heart this is, like, at, like, for so long, like, someone playing at, like, Alabama.

Yeah. And, like, on Nick in the Nick Saban era, I'd be like, oh, they're gonna be a great pro just because they were on that, like, prolific team.

But so I have no idea. What do you think? I think Asia Wilson said she was gonna be the best player, to come out of her class. And I'm I believe Asia Wilson in everything that she says, so I'll I'll defer to her.

And I I do think she has a lot of skills that are gonna translate. She's just young, needs to get more into the flow of things, and I think she could be I think she could be different in terms of this list.

I think she's somebody that the the the GMs are drafting for potential. I'll tell you that right now. Absolutely. Okay, Brett. Number four. We got two more. Number four, Hannah Hidalgo.

Yeah. So I will say that prior to this year, I was I love watching Hidalgo play. Obviously, she plays on my team. I was uncertain based on size and stature if it would translate to the WNBA, and then this year happened.

And I'm just like, what are we watching? Like, in my opinion, and, of course, I'm biased, I think she's been the best player in college basketball this year across the board.

Like, what she's doing at both ends of the floor, she has leveled up, big time this year, and so I don't know how far she can take this in the WNBA.

And it's just funny how because so Sonia Citron, no one really talked about, her as being this flashy star player.

But then once it came around to, like, prospect draft time, like, everyone had her up high on the board, and she proved immediately, like, she was an all star level player.

I don't know what that's going to be like for Hidalgo, but I I I do believe she will be drafted, and I do believe in the right situation, like, she could have potential. She's a player who needs to cook.

Like, you need to give her the ball. So is there a bad team in the WNBA who will draft her and just give her the reps and sets? That's how I think she'll we'll see if she can make it into something special or not.

That's interesting. I I tend to agree with you. I guess, I I'll hit you with one other question about Hannah Do, which is, do you expect her to have a better rookie season than Sonia Citron?

No. No. Okay. But I would say most people would think Hannah Haddogo has higher expectations to meet. So She I think she has way more she has way more potential to be a, like, a base Yeah.

The w than Sonia does, but a lot of things I think have to happen in order for that to happen. Yeah. Alright. We'll leave it there with Hannah Hinder.

Last player I wanna ask about is Lauren Betts of UCLA. I mean, yes. Like, I'll just say yes. Like, I think she's been talked about as the number one or number two pick for the last several years. I got a chance to see her play live.

She's she is about as WNBA ready as WNBA ready is. I completely agree. I think once you get to a certain point of confidence in a player, people love to inject doubt or poke holes in their game because they have to.

And clearly, all these players are college age people. Like, they're just there's gonna be flaws in the game that have to be sorted out.

I think Lauren Betts has some things that she could work on, but I I think she's the best player in the draft in terms of just, like, not only potential, but showing like, when we talk about why don't you just draft the best player?

Like, Lauren Betts takes up so much space physically on the court, but also in terms of her style. I think she's physical. And I think the biggest, biggest hurdle for women going from college basketball to the WNBA is the physicality.

You hear that talked about every single time you listen to a vet or you listen to a second year, and they say, what was the hardest thing about the w?

It's always the physicality, and I think Lauren Betts is right there. I think she's right there. So I think that that's gonna translate translate well for her.

I I just every I agree with what you said. I just, like, I for as good of a rookie season as Paige Becker's had, amazing rookie season, I just well, I can't imagine what adding a player like Lauren Betts will do for Paige Becker's.

It will only free her up and make her more elusive. And to me, I'm just like, this is who you have to draft wings, but I'm not I what do I know?

So No. Right. See, this is this is where the GM is coming out. You have to draft that potential European freak superstar that's 18 years old. Like Are you jacking for Lauren Betts on the links there, Caitlin?

Maybe. Maybe. Okay. We'll leave it there. We'll leave it there. I could once we say links, it's like, okay. Now Caitlin starts talking even more. So we'll we'll leave it there for episode eight.

This was an incredibly rewarding one. I'd encourage everybody to talk about their cards with their friends. It really makes the experience of owning them even sweeter, like, with this fee.

After this conversation, you know, I'm gonna hold it up and look at it. I'm gonna drink my coffee with my fee and have a good morning. I hope everybody enjoyed the episode, and we'll see you next week on the other side.