Welcome back, loyal listeners of the Stacking Slabs podcast to bonus episode 13 of the WNBA card podcast.

My name is Caitlin. I go by at cold lunch cards on Instagram and everywhere else on the Internet, and I'm joined by my amazing cohost, Brett McGrath at stacking slabs.

And we're excited to be bringing you guys more collector driven and community focused content in today's bonus episode between season one and season two.

How are you doing today, Brett? I'm well. I feel like so many things happened from in between us recording these two episodes, like the close of season one and this bonus episode, like, from on the court cards, conversation, community.

It just seems like a lot has happened over the past week.

So I'm really excited to get into this, week's episode. How are you doing? I'm doing well. I felt the same way. It felt like we, hit stop recording on the mic on season one finale, and then a bunch of headlines came out.

And I was like, well, we owe it to you guys, our listeners, to, talk about these things, and so I'm really excited. Today's gonna be a little bit more of an abbreviated agenda than season one was.

We're not gonna do all of the segments that we usually do, just because of the bonus nature of the episode. But we have really fun things to talk about today.

And I'm super excited to tip-off with a very exciting topic, which is a little bit more reflection with some future oriented, prompts about, you know, we finished season one. We recorded 12 episodes, and I thought they went pretty well.

But we wanna get better, and we wanna keep improving and expanding. And so Brett and I put together a couple ideas of maybe what we think, season two could look like or some things that we could include in the upcoming episodes.

So, Brett, I'm excited to kind of dig in and hear what you think about, changes coming to the WNBA card podcast.

Change is such a scary word, Caitlin. Oh, like, Yeah. I let's say this. Evolution. How about that? That's maybe a more, like, a non scary word, but means the exact same thing.

Yeah. I I think one of the things I enjoyed the most about season one was and this is part of that I was, like, removed from the most because you were running you've been running kind of community engagement and social.

And what has been so awesome has been, for me, the introduction of, like, so many new people through the mailbag process and or the collector spotlight process.

I think that's so cool. And, what I think the hobby, some of the hobby content where I think it goes wrong is I think it goes wrong when the individuals or the creators are it's it's they're making it about, like, themselves.

And, yes, there's some of that content. But, like, you and I are doing this, and we're not trying to, like, get famous. And we're not trying to be, like, front and center of it.

Like, we're doing it because we have a passion for it, and we understand that the community and the community that listens to this show and the community that collects WNBA cards is the reason why we're able to do this.

So I think for me, those moments of mailbag, the moments of collector spotlight really shined a light on the fact that, okay.

The community is loud. They care. They have a voice, and we, as the, hosts of this show, have a platform to bring those voices to the rest of the community.

And so I say that all that to say, I think one of the focuses that I would like to see us kinda tackle moving into season two is just bringing some of those voices on this platform to share, their perspective about how they collect, what they collect.

We have our viewpoints, and we have our belief system, and we can share our perspectives on new releases, market trends, ways to collect. But we've only got our our voices right.

And so I think this show really, kinda takes off when we start curating voices from the community. So haven't really, like, tried to dig into exactly what that means, but I think one easy way to think about it is, okay.

Well, what about an episode where we bring on a collector who we really admire and appreciate and who has an awesome collection and select a topic and have them share their thoughts.

And I think that if we are able to do that, the show and this community only gets stronger. So that's, like, the big call out.

I I'm very happy that we've poured so much into this and share so much, but I feel like we'll get better and the community will probably be more engaged with what we're doing here if we start including other people.

Couldn't agree more. I'm super excited about this idea, and I already have names. There's it feels like we have hundreds of collectors that would be a good fit to bring on. So I'm super excited for that.

I think, like you said, expanding it and just bringing more people into the fold is just always good and helps the podcast in general. So, yeah, really excited for that. And I suppose my my idea that I proposed was a bit different.

I thought more about what season one looked like, which was a foundation. We had to build the foundation before we can build upon it. Right? And I think that, you know, we talked a lot about the hobby.

We talked a lot about storytelling, culture, all of those things. And one thing that I felt we were kind of missing, was a layer that leaned into my own passions and my own curiosities, which is the data of it all.

While we did a little bit of it in market in market analysis throughout the show, I think that, you know, stats driven content in the hobby is something we don't see every day, and it's super valuable.

And so I'm not talking about being super technical in coding and doing all this crazy spreadsheet work, but just diving into the numbers a little bit more, whether that be through print runs, whether that be through sales trends, popularity spikes, just what numbers tell us about collector behavior in general.

I think that that's the kind of content that I'm drawn towards, both because I think it's entertaining, but also because it it leans in, like I said, to, like, my professional life, where I'm kind of in a data narrative sort.

So I'm kind of looking more towards the number side of it.

And when I look at what I consume myself content wise, I find myself drawn to, super cool visuals and graphs and statistics that convey complex ideas in a very digestible format.

And I think if we can uncover some of those trends within the hobby, particularly in the WNBA card space, it's only gonna validate the podcast and validate, the category itself.

And so I I wanted to shout out we don't have a collector spotlight this week, but I did wanna give a shout out to two content creators, in in space that are doing some really great work that's data focused.

So we have at WNBA data. I know her from TikTok, but I'm sure she's on other platforms.

She breaks down a lot of really cool, problems and issues, I suppose. She the first video I shot saw of her, she broke down whether or not one rim was actually bouncier in the NCAA tournament and if that led to more missed shots.

So she dives into the coding and the very technical aspects to test her hypotheses and then proves them.

And I just think that's so cool. Not because I really care about the bounciness of a rim, but because she's curious about something in the community and then goes and finds the data to back it up.

So that's the first person that's kind of inspiring this little statistics drive that I have.

And the second person is at underscore underscore sportsball. Interesting interestingly, I think he did a collab with PSA, as well, but he makes a lot of drawn illustrations of, visualization of data.

So, the PSA sponsorship I thought saw kind of, put put some numbers to how many cards are being graded by segment and so on and so forth.

But I just think there's something about well designed data that sticks with you through content, and I think that we can bring that a little bit more out in season two.

I love this. What as you were going through it, first of all, it sounds like we maybe have a couple potential guests that we could have on our show to talk about it. But when you were talking about it, I said my wish was more voices.

You said more data. And I couldn't help but think about an episode that I put out last week or this week, I guess, when this goes live with, fellow WNBA collector Kevin, at Kevin m Cormier.

And number one, like, doing that on smashing Ben helped be a lot to help remind me, wow. Like, there are so many passionate w collectors out there because we we're talking about one of his Caitlin Clark cards.

And then two, a big part of that episode was about the reason why he bought the 2024 origins Caitlin Clark swirl. And based on his research, looking at pop reports, looking at rarity and scarcity, like, he made the decision that, wow.

This this card where no one knows how many copies really exist is oh, there's only three PSA tens, at you know, graded in the pop report right now, and that was a reason one of the reasons why he felt compelled based on price point in comparison to prism blues, which were, like, four x what he paid for the, swirl.

And I just like that, all of that circling together of, like, data and other people bringing that together, I think, would make for a a fun kinda next evolution of the podcast.

So I think you and I are, oddly tracking, while our recommendations are different. I think there's a awesome opportunity to bring some of those together. 100%. And I couldn't be more excited to continue this.

Season one was awesome, but I think season two, you know, we've learned a lot, and it can only get better from here. So super excited. Alright. I think I think we can move on from tip-off and into league talk.

It's a somber day for me. We're coming off the heels of the commissioner's cup, and we'll get to that. But why don't we start our with something a little bit more positive for everybody in Pompey, which is WNBA expansion?

The league announced three new teams. Brett just turned around his hat, by the way, for all of our listeners to show the fever logo to me, so that was really special. Okay. The WNBA expanded.

They announced three new teams. In 2028, the WNBA will be coming to Cleveland, Ohio, 2029, Detroit, Michigan, and 2030, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Brett, what is your reaction to this when you saw this? I was, I guess, wow.

And the wow factor came from, obviously, like, expansion. It's inevitable based on trends and what's happening, and that's great. But, like, what surprised me the most was the fact that they announced three cities at one time.

And so I think all three cities, definitely, like, there is, either have had teams in the past or are a market that can support a team, but I think it was very interesting that the three got announced at one time.

From what I understand, like, digging in and trying to understand, like, from the from the media side, how this all went down.

It was, like, think twenty four hours before this happened, like, a bunch of outlets got, an update, and they said, like, I can't remember where it was in New York, but they're, like, be in this place.

We have an announcement. And no one really knew. Like, it was just, like, speculation. Like, what are we announcing?

Like, what's happening? And I think when the reporters got into the room, they they saw, like, WNBA Cleveland, WNBA Detroit, WNBA, Philadelphia, and they you know, before the the, press conference, they they realized, oh, wow.

This is, like, the expansion of of several teams. I think one thing that really need there's a this is like I don't know how far we would've go to down this, Caitlin, but, like, this is the stuff I love, and I get really nerdy on this.

I think some some things that we should talk about before, like, maybe the cities and every the setting of the stages, I think it cost each city to, like, be like, put a bid in and do this.

It cost, like, $250,000,000. So $250,000,000 from each of these teams. So it's, you know, $750,000,000 that are is brought into the pot of WNBA funds.

Now there's a collecting bargaining agreement coming with players. So it's this is the w trying to do all this together to use this as leverage when they're trying to negotiate the next version of contracts.

There's all this really nerdy in the weed stuff that you can get to. And so I I just bring that up because I think it's interesting.

And and then I also like the the final thing that I think is an interesting thread that I have, been following and I've heard other people mention and talk about is this the fact that and this like, I I don't Caitlin, I don't know if you expect me to, like, bring this up, but it's like, should we really be announcing and going all in on pushing three teams to market right now when we look at the landscape amongst the league and look at existing teams and see that some teams are in a way better position financially and with infrastructure, than other teams.

I mean, just take into consideration, like like, the Liberty versus the Sun. Right? There's a huge, disparity between, like, resources within those teams, and so I think that's just, like, an interesting thread to think about.

I'm pro expansion. I'm pro growth, but I think I'm also, like, making sure that, like, teams that have been here and teams that have existed are getting taken care of as much as maybe some of the newer teams.

Yeah. So those are those are just some initial thoughts I have regarding kind of this news. Those are some big thoughts, and I have a lot of threads I'd love to pull on.

I guess I'll I'll start with this idea of we don't wanna grow too fast. And, I think it's kind of a double edged sword. I think there's definitely two sides to the coin. And I'll say this, sports are not fair.

Some people are more talented than others, and you're gonna have to deal with that. However, I don't think the problem is necessarily expanding too fast, and one team is gonna be better than the other.

That's just gonna happen no matter what. It's more so we have players here that are making $75,000 a year to put their body on the line.

And before, before they announced the three expansion teams, I saw a headline where one of the WNBA players, I can't recall who it was, said that the current offer from the WNBA on the CBA was a slap in the face.

That's how they felt about it. And to me, I think it's more about taking care of the players that are already here, like you said.

And if expansion helps with that, then I'll I'll have more power to the WNBA. I'm I'm super excited for these three cities. I think there's a long history of winning in all three of these cities.

I think people want them in these cities. But, yeah, I think the focus right now has to be on getting our players paid fairly, and, this might distract from that a little bit.

And I would say, if if the the increase in pay doesn't happen soon, you know, our vice president of, well, our president is NECA, but our vice president, I believe, is fee, already said lockout is not off the table.

That could be just not great. That's just never a good situation to be in. So, well, expansion is super exciting, and there's also, you know, the devil's are the devil's in the details here.

And I think that, you know, we'll see how it all plays out. But all in all, top line, this is awesome. Like, I couldn't be more excited, and I'm excited. Hopefully, there's more cities that get this opportunity in the future.

I saw a few teams that put in or a few cities or ownership groups that put in a bid but weren't selected are still gonna go forth with the process, and try to get into the next round whenever that may be.

So, yeah, it's it's growing, and it's a testament to the growth of the game.

So it's it's exciting. One more from me is, that just, like, sparked in my mind as you're talking about this is with the lockout situation or potential. Like, I am anti lockout. I've never been pro lockout.

However, I am so pro player in this situation that if a lockout needs to happen in order to get people paid, then I'm cool with chilling and, like, watching unrivaled or whatever the alternative is gonna pop up.

So I I think the the the the intentionality, from the WNBA to basically waive the $750,000,000 at that table, it like, there's a reason why there was three teams announced at one.

It didn't need to be that way, but there's a reason why. But I also think, like, all the power is in the player's hands in this.

So, final final on me is, like, what I don't like, and this is just it's trend feels more apparent now than ever before is I don't like, I don't like the fact that from a resource perspective, like, it it and I can't speak for the players.

I'm not a player. It's just what I hear and read in the tea leaves, but, like, it feels like there's two different leagues inside of one league, and the league's really small right now.

And it's almost like there's a minor league version and a major league version, and it's all based on resources.

And I just think about, like, you can't have one team exist, and it feels like they're they're playing at, you know, a high score or a high school gym, and then have another team exist where they have all the amenities and resources.

That screws up everything when it comes to free agency holdouts.

It just causes more strife, and so I think the WNBA, the leadership there needs to make sure that they've got their existing room cleaned up, and, there's a level playing field for teams and players before we start piling on because it's a fun league.

We love watching it. We have a podcast about collecting cards about it, but it's like, they need to get their shit in order Yeah.

Before we just, you know if before it implodes on its face, which I don't anticipate happening, but No. It won't feel like, it's a good opportunity to be a little extreme here as we're talking about experience.

I no. I don't think it's gonna implode. And I think, you know, the the Players Association is very well versed, here, and they know what to do, and they're gonna take care of each other.

So I'm super excited. I will say, Brett, one question I'll throw back at you. I have my answer. But okay. 2030 is when Philly is gonna come in.

Do you have any requests for who comes after that? I know we talked about piling on, but let's just say everything goes beautifully. People are getting paid, fairly, and the new teams start to succeed.

Who are the next couple teams that you're thinking of joining? You know, I'd I'd I guess, here's my question back at you. How important do you think or not important do you think the, MBA component is to it?

That's such a tough question. I think it's very important because of brand identity and support across organizations. I love the fact that, like, the links in the Timberwolves, like, it's the same vibe, the same colors.

They have similar structure. The the fans overlap. It's awesome. And, obviously, we saw with the three expand the three announced expansion teams that the WNBA is favoring NBA ownership groups.

That being said, I don't think that's the only mold that works, and we have to break out of it at some point, because this is its own league. And I think that, you know, it would be a I I'll throw out the Tennessee of it all.

The Candace Parker, Peyton Manning ownership group that put in a bid, they made a public statement saying, you know, we recognize that NBA ownership is obviously being prioritized, and that's totally fine, but we're not giving up because just because Tennessee doesn't have an NBA team doesn't mean they can't have a WNBA team, and fans don't deserve that.

So, yeah, I I think it's important. And I think right now, you know, it's definitely the safe option. I I don't think it's the only one, though.

I love it. My you said where for me. My and I don't wanna get too deep in the weeds on this, but I I think this is this is wild. But I I think, like, Nashville fits the bill here, but I think the South needs WNBA representation.

To me, if you look at the map and look at the teams and where they align, like, there's not a lot They're Atlanta? Like, that's a Yeah. Atlanta and Dallas I mean, Dallas is more wet. Yeah.

But there's not I mean, just look at it, and it's crazy, and it's just like I'll just say this. I think putting a WNBA team together with very smart and strategic ownership in an area in the South would be really good for everybody.

I'll just leave it at that. Yeah. We can leave it there. I'm excited to see what happens. Should we transition away from expansion into a very sad topic for me and a very exciting topic for you, which is the commissioner's cup?

On July 1, the Minnesota Linx took on the Indiana fever at Target Center in Minneapolis, and the Minnesota Linx absolutely shit the bed and lost to Brett's Indiana fever.

So Brett, why don't you tell me how you're feeling about the game looking back on it now?

I'm I'm Caitlin, I'm stunned. I really am. I was, I had a conversation. I was I was somewhere on Tuesday talking with a hobby friend, and we're talking about the game.

And it's just been there's been a lot of sadness for indie fans recently. Post, Pacers loss, Halliburton injury, we didn't resign Miles Turner, and Caitlin Clark's been hurt. And it's just like, it when it rains, it pours.

And I'm like, man, we got we're we've got in in the Clark news, as I was, like, getting in the car heading home, the Clark news hit that she wasn't gonna play, and I was just like, this is gonna be a disaster.

Because I really respect the links. Like, I think their, front runner for the championship still, I think, you know, fee is still front runner for MVP.

This game does this game does outside of the money, this game really doesn't need much for standings, MVP stuff, none of that.

And so I just was like, man, this is gonna be really hard because I don't I I have not had a reason to trust the fever, without Caitlin Clark. They've won some games, but they've also, like, fumbled so many games.

And them going into, you know, the links town and trying to win this game. I just I I was I went in, and I never do this as a fan, but I was like, I have zero expectations.

I hope they just don't, like, get laughed off the court. And so that didn't happen. Right? They they won, obviously. And to me, it felt like a very pivotal moment. And last year had two chapters of the fever season.

It was like, they were terrible. No one could play together before the all star break. And then they came back from the all star break, and they look like in a completely different team.

And I think the fever had such high expectations going into this year because of the the the attention that Clark brings to the team that they were probably unrealistic, new coach, new team, everything else.

And they they've won games, but they've also lost a bunch. And they just haven't really found their footing.

And so this win, I'm hoping, is the catapulting them into okay. Like, we're actually gonna try to, like, compete, and we're gonna try to, like, buy and be one of those top teams in this next, run. And so that's what I'm hopeful for.

I just gotta shout out, the the team. It was just such fun basketball to watch. It reminded me of, like, how during, like, the Pacers playoff run, they overcame adversity, and they, they were able to win these games.

It was just team basketball and just, it was great to see Natasha Howard get MVP. She the, acquisitions they brought in haven't necessarily completely worked out.

And Joanna Bonner is the easy one to to look at, but it's like Natasha Howard's been pretty steady, and it was awesome to see her win MVP. And I messaged to you, it's just like I, Aliyah Boston is just a gem.

Like, she Yeah. She is one of the best, one of the best front court players in the WNBA, and I think it all comes down to, like, maintaining a certain level of confidence with her. But when she's confident, man, she's unstoppable.

And we saw that on display. So it was it was a it was a big, big win. I think for for for me, it's like, okay. Let that was fine. Like, it it just doesn't mean a I mean, it means a lot financially to these players and the charity.

But, like, in terms of, like, the rest of the season, it's like, what are you gonna do for me now? It's kinda the mindset I have going into You're not settling for commissioner's cup championships.

Not at all. Yeah. I get that. I mean, I was there last year. Yeah. The links were unfortunately not able to repeat. And let me just let me just start by saying the game was so hard to watch as a Minnesota Lynx fan.

It was god awful. We scored 59 points. 59 points. That's like a high school game. After putting up a 100 in three the previous week, I don't understand what happened.

We completely collapsed against a team that credit where credit is due, they won the game. The team was not intimidating in one bit. All of our players finished on the minus of the plus minus, all of them.

Not a single person was in the plus. We had Sonya that was minus 13, and she was our highest scorer. Like, what are we doing? Meanwhile, Sydney Colson, the face of the league, is plus 19.

In what world should Sydney Colson be plus 19? That doesn't make any sense at all. So I had a lot of people DM me saying they wanna see the crash out, and I'm trying to get over it.

I am inducing a lot of delusion into my thoughts by saying, okay. You nobody who wins the commissioner cup wins the finals, so just relax. It's not that big of a deal. I thought it was so brutal and ugly.

I thought the coaching was not good. And all it made me think the whole time I was thinking was get Courtney Williams off my freaking team, man. I'm so sick of it. This is how it went. If you didn't watch the game, this is how it went.

Courtney Williams, not a natural point guard. She got brought in by Cheryl Reed to come play the one for the links. Okay. Bring up the ball to the court about three feet from the three point line.

Pick up the ball. They have no idea where you're gonna go with the ball. Don't even look at the hoop, and then turn it over. That that's like the entire recipe that was happening, and it was pissing me off so much.

In the second quarter, we went eight minutes and thirteen seconds without the maid basket. Yeah. Guys, I that's like watching elementary school, like, four fourth graders play basketball. It was so ugly.

I had to get up and, like, be, like, it's not that serious. Like, you need to relax. It's not that serious. And I think the big, big headline here is Nafissa Collier is carrying this team on her back, and she cannot have an off day.

Yeah. And that's just not a sustainable team. So somebody needs to figure their shit out because if the only has how many did she have? She had 12, which isn't even that bad.

She only had 12. We're falling apart. It is like, literally, it was so hard to watch. I just couldn't do it. BC and K Mac, both who are supposed to be are sharpshooters, couldn't get a ball to fall for their life.

And then we have Alana Smith who's sacrificing her body for our team, and nobody else is showing up. Nobody showed up. No. I think they came into the game saying Caitlin click Caitlin Clark's out.

This is gonna be a cake walk, which honestly I did too. And then they get laughed out of their own stadium. They couldn't celebrate in their locker room, and this is what happens.

You lose the money. And let me just say this last thing because I could go on and on. If I hear one more thing from Courtney Williams saying I only care about the money, not the hardware, it's It's gonna be the end for me.

That for anybody that isn't aware, they interviewed Courtney Williams and Leticia Heidemann, who are both of our, like, one guards.

They asked Courtney Williams, would you rather have $10,000 or WNBA championship? And she said $10,000. First of all, I would rather have a WNBA championship than $10,000, and I'm not even on the freaking team.

And then they asked Natisha Heideman, would you rather have $10,000,000 or a WNBA championship? And you know what she said? WNBA championship.

So why the hell is she the backup starter when Courtney Williams is turning the ball over every single time? Okay. Time off. I'm getting to Yeah. I I'll come in relief. I'll come in relief. Yeah. It's the crash out everyone wanted.

I'm glad we've waited a couple days to record. Oh my god. Yeah. You're you're fired up there. It would have been something. But I think maybe we put a bow on it by saying, I messaged this to you, and I still I really believe this.

I think and it never really happens, but I think this could be a game the way it went down was ends up being really, really good for both teams.

The links realize they gotta get their shit together if they're gonna win a championship, and they've got the co I can't imagine what practice was like.

After the and the fever, like, confidence beating league's best team without their best player, that can only help.

So, hopefully, it it be I I I'll say this. I know you're as we're recording this, you're going to the, Lynx Mystics tonight.

I might go I might go take out my, all my money in my account and just dump it on the Lynx tonight because there there is no way they're not showing up tonight. Yeah. Otherwise, Cheryl's gonna have their ass. So Yeah.

Interesting for sure. Okay. That was that was a lot. I feel like I just retraumatized myself in going through that game. Let's move on to something really exciting that I'm, like, stoked to talk about, which is the all star game.

And, surprise, I'm gonna be in your neck of the woods in Indianapolis to attend both the skills contest and the game. I'm gonna be sitting 15 rows up, from courtside.

I'm like stoned to see my favorite players in the flesh, And I don't think it could have turned out better for the WNBA card podcast for the captains of the team to be named Caitlin Clark and Nafiza Collier.

I think they've been listening. So, why don't we talk about the All Star Game?

And, I think we're gonna draft our own teams. Yes. I am very biased, but I have lived in Indianapolis my entire life. Indianapolis is a host city, and I would put our ability to host up against anyone else's.

The airport in Indy is already decorated with a WNBA floor right in the in the airport, all star branding everywhere. They had a press conference. Tamika Catchings was there talking about it.

And he knows what we're doing. We we do it right. The branding is already downtown, coming off the heels of indie hosting the NBA All Star Game a couple years ago. I know it's gonna be done right.

So it's just a good it's a great moment for, my city. I think, in my opinion, and I'm it's biased, but I've also heard good friends who come in and watch games. Gambridge Fieldhouse is a special place to watch basketball.

It is built exclusively for basketball. And, Caitlin, I'm excited to get your reaction walking into that arena that I so deeply love to sit down and watch it. It you'll you'll know it right when you sit down.

It just feels different. So I'm excited for the WNBA universe to come, to my city, and the game is gonna be awesome. I hope to get to some of the festivities, but I'm really excited to get this draft underway.

I have no idea what direction it's gonna go. It's gonna be fun. Me either. First of all, I'm just so excited to be it's my first it's my first time in Indy.

I'm really excited for, obviously, the WNBA all star game and to be there and catch up and and go I'm going with some friends as well, so it should just be a full weekend of fun activities.

But why don't we why don't we tell people where the WNBA all star game is at as of the time of recording, which is that the 10 starters, including the two captains, have been announced, and the 12 reserves will be announced across WNBA socials on Sunday, July 6 at noon eastern.

And then ESPN will broadcast the results of the roster draft where Caitlin and Fi pick their teams, during an hour long edition of WNBA Countdown on Tuesday, July 8 at 7PM eastern.

So that's kinda where we're at. We're going into this without knowing who's the reserves. So we're just gonna start with the 10 starters, and then it's kind of a wild card for the rest of the team.

So So Brett and I are gonna pick teams of 10. Brett, you are going to get the number one overall pick since your team claimed the commissioner's cup, and I would be surprised if it goes any other direction than the one I'm thinking.

So why don't you start us off? The pick is in, and the pick is my captain, Caitlin Clark, at number one.

And I'm I'm guessing I know which way we're gonna go with your first pick, but I may be surprised. Yeah. What a surprise here, folks. The the odds were minus 10,000,000 on Clark to go number one to Brett.

In the odds for the piece of Collier to go to my team, we're also minus 10,000,000. So that's my my first pick. Okay. So I've, Clark is off the board. The number two is really easy for me. I'm going AJ Wilson.

No brainer. You know what? Know that. You assumed I was going back. Knew you were gonna do that, but I had hope. You know? Like, I really did have hope. So whatever. Okay. You're starting with Caitlin Clark and AJ Wilson.

I've got Fi, and I'm gonna pair Fi up with my arch nemesis, Brianna Stewart. So I I was gonna go Stewie next. We're gonna leave her out there. That's pretty good. Oh, man. You there's so many good players. This is tough.

I I'm going to go you know what? Oh god. This is tough. I'm scared. Okay. You know what? I'm going with I'm going with Sabrina with the third pick. Take her. I'm gonna drop her at the last pick, Brian. You can have her. Okay.

With the 3. 6 round three, six overall pick, I'm gonna surprise maybe a few of you. I'm going with page buckets. Give me page. Hey. I she's been just playing out of her mind. Yeah. She's been so good. I'm going with, Aliyah Boston.

Pick and roll game. Gotta have it. Yeah. It's just gonna be a fever game happening at first game. Well, I won't be so I would be surprised if Clark doesn't take Boston first. And then I think that's what's gonna happen.

Yeah. Otherwise, like, kind of a drama. Okay. I have Fee, Stewie, and Paige, and I'm trying to think if I want to build up I already have two forwards and only one guard. I think I'm going Alicia Gray.

Oh, good pick. I like it. I'm going, oh, man. This is tough. This one's tough. I'm going I'm going NECA. I'm doing it. Yes. This is doing exactly how I wanted, Brett. Okay. And this closes out the starters, right, with this last Yes.

This is the last available person, which is Satu Sabli, who's part of my fantasy team. So excited to pick her up. She's been playing so good. So Yeah. She's she's awesome. Hey. This is like splitting hairs.

I mean, I could have ended up with any of these starters and been very, very happy about it. Yeah. For sure. Okay. So now it's on to you. For the listeners, we've gone through all 10 of the starters, and now it's a wild card.

You can pick anybody you think is deserving of a WNBA all star spot. Okay. Man, I it's tough for me to know to try to figure out. I've already got I mean, I got NECA, Boston, and Wilson. So I feel like I need more backcourt play.

I am going to go, oh, stop. I'm going I'm going Kelsey Plum. Good pick, Brett. Good pick. And I am really scared that you're gonna get this player and pair her up with NECA, so I'm gonna take her from you, and that's Skyler Diggins.

Okay. She's all she's on my board. So good pick. I am going to go, man, because I have so much respect and admiration for her this year and because she has been incredible, I'm going Bree Jones.

Oh, I like that pick a lot, but that's a ball mower pick, first of all. Okay. Who's the best player to ever play in the All Star game? I think there's a clear answer, and I'm gonna draft it right now.

And that's Enrique Ogdenwale. I need her on my team. Okay. Getting the points. I am going with my next pick because she deserves it. Oh, god. She deserves to be on this team. I am picking Britney Sykes.

I thought you were gonna say Kelsey Mitchell, so that was a pleasant surprise. Okay. Britney Sykes. I love it. With my pick, I'm taking one of my favorite players in the w and another good pairing for my team.

To team up with Alicia Gray, I'm gonna take Ryan Howard. She's on my board. Nice pick. I am going because you gotta do it. Yeah. You just have to do it. I'm going on the same team, Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese.

Oh, no. I was hoping she would slide one more. I knew she would be you'd be after her, and I was like, I look I've looked at the I was, like, looking at the stats and the production.

I was like, okay. We Angel Reese off the bench for sure. Let's make it happen. 100%. We're getting tough here. I think we're at our last I only have two picks left, and you only have one. Yep. I'm going with AT.

That was my last pick. This is like a game of chess. Yeah. Literally. Oh, that's too funny. Okay. You know what? You never can have enough shooters. I'm going to Minnesota for my last pick. Kayla McBride is coming on my squad.

I love that, Brett. And with the final pick of the draft, I had a name, and then I just, like, was like, no. We can't do that. I'm gonna go with Jayo. I'm going with Jackie Young. She's on my board too.

It would my la we the last was, like it was to know how about that? Two Notre Dame grads off the board at the end. I love it. There we go. There we go. In Indy. I think if they're there, that's gonna be super exciting.

Wow. Okay. We're gonna have a post, obviously, at at WNBA card pod on Instagram so that you guys can visualize our team. And I'm gonna we're conducting a poll, and it's gonna have big consequences.

So everybody's gonna need to vote for which which team they think would win this game. That was fun. Was more I thought this would be fun, but that was more fun than I anticipated.

That was awesome. Well, that kinda closes out our league talk. Super excited for the all star game and all the festivities. But why don't we get into the meat and potatoes of today, which is about the cards?

Yes. Let's talk about rookie royalty. How could we not, get into rookie the rookie royalty of it all? So, I'm not I'm sure everyone at this point if you're listening to this podcast, you're aware of rookie royalty.

It is a set put together or new product put together by Panini that has the irony of it too, rookie royalty, but they're all second year players.

But they basically included all of the premium products from Panini and put them all together in one product. So we're talking about let's see.

All these cards have parallels, but we're talking Contenders Rookie Tickets, Donner's Next Day Autos, Downtowns, Elite Pen Pals, Flawless RPAs, Immaculate RPAs, logo woman, kabooms, gold greens, regulars, n t r p a's, n t w n b a logo woman, sneaker spotlight, spotlight signatures.

That's a lot. But it's all in one product. There was a Dutch auction, which ridiculously started at 30 k a box.

You put here, it landed at 4. It was, like, 3 or 4 k, I think, one of the two. But, yeah, expensive. Yeah. This has been madness. It has been ultimate number one front page of the hobby, news.

You are already seeing, like, all of the hits being pulled because all of these boxes are with breakers, and everything's being you know, I've seen every I've seen posts from flipper dealers saying, I'm buying everything.

Let me know. And it's just been absolute madness. So I I'm not really surprised by the chaos and the madness based on, like, what we saw with Prism in this class. And so there's a lot to unpack here.

And let's just say I'm gonna share a personal example for me. Mhmm. I I don't know what this says about what I think about this product, and I don't wanna be negative on this product because it just came out.

But I have had zero zero aspirations to go chase, to go buy, to go do anything in this moment with that product.

And I'm hoping just through this conversation, maybe I can get a little clarity for myself on, like, why I feel that way. Mhmm.

I think it's cool that we're getting all of these cards. I think it's kind of weird that they're all batched together in one product, and that's opening up a whole can of worms. But the can of worms is opened, so I just shared a lot.

Caitlin, what's some of your initial reaction on this product? Let's start with the positive, which is this is just such a big moment for for WMBA cards. We've never seen anything like this before.

It's undeniably historic, a big deal. It's making front page news of hobby of the hobby, and, that is undeniable. And the products that are in here are without a doubt some of the best available for, collectors to chase after.

That being said, I'm in the same boat as you as I have not have had any urge to go chase or even to start looking up singles prices, this this product is not made for me.

And I think that that's kind of where I wanna start, which is that this product is inherently not built for the everyday collector Because the Dutch auction started at $30,000 and ended around 3 to $4,000.

I think the product is ultimately geared towards breakers and flippers or investors or whatever you wanna call them. And because of that price point, it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth and changes the kind of tone of the release.

It doesn't feel like the manufacturer is trying to get me to collect these cards. It feels like they're trying to get other people to collect these cards.

So while I think that the cards are pretty sweet objectively, to be transparent, it's it's not my my thing right now. But that doesn't preclude me from wanting them in the future either. Right?

So, like, we can say all these things today, and maybe in a year or two years or even two weeks, I'm gonna be like, wow, I really wanna keep Martin kaboom. Like, that is totally fine. And collectors are allowed to change their opinions.

You don't have to make up your mind day one and then stick with it forever. Just how you can outgrow a collection, you can grow into a collection. So, that's kinda my my top line of of this discussion.

I love the fact that, like, I feel like we we maybe align and feel the same way where it's I I wanna say this, like, because this product exists, it doesn't mean I'm anti this product, but it's more this product isn't built for me.

And a big reason for that is can I get the Panini cash grab of it all? Like, trying to strike it while it's hot, you gotta make money, and here's a good way to make money.

But I think, like, what what doesn't connect with me as a collector is I I don't like these compilation sets anywhere. Like, I'm not a Chronicles person.

This is, like, top shelf Chronicles. It's like, let's put them all together. I think the cards look nice. You know, we can get into the fact that big shocker, nonassociated patches, like, big surprise. Like, of course, we expected that.

I think, though, what's interesting is, like, when you build a product this way and you push it out into through distribution in the way it does, you're going to get a ton of inflated prices, and you're gonna see, like, a player like Caitlin Clark, who is a pivotal, like, player regardless of WNBA, a pivotal athlete.

Like, she all of her card prices are gonna continue to soar, and then they're just gonna continue to crash because the the real ones, the real the the game of hot potato will eventually, like, stop at some point.

And so I can't forecast or predict the future, but it this just this product feels like it's adding fuel to the fire.

And I think I struggle a little bit because I think there is a part of it for me that's, like, the intention from a Caitlin Clark on WNBA collecting is really important, and she's shined a light on so many great things about the sport that we love.

But when we look at it from a collecting perspective, I think it just, like, do these people even want these cards? Or they they just want the money, and they use this as a vehicle for the money.

And there's enough people out there that are going to buy into the excitement of the beginning and pay you these ridiculous prices for this. And a lot of it just doesn't make sense.

One final for me on this and then maybe kick it back to you is, like, my good friend, Josh, Josh Johnson at Carboro Chronicles, builder card ladder has been just doing a lot of, like, analysis and sharing of different stuff.

And when he's talked about Caitlin Clark, he's basically shown, like, Caitlin Clark sales, and they don't make it like, they don't make much sense.

Like, if you look at the way the hobby has operated in the way people have spent money on cards, like, Caitlin Clark's, like, highest selling stuff for the most part is, like, sticker autos of inserts from, like, one of ones from Select, and the separation between those the price point of those cards to, like, some of the core cards, like a maybe a black finite concourse from Select.

There's, like, three to four x multiples on that, which is just wild.

So it that signals that the p the individuals who are buying this, like, one, like, they're just buying whatever's available because maybe someone told them to or this and that.

But it's very disruptive, and that's part of the disruption is presenting itself, and I think there's good and bad in that. But, ultimately, I don't know. Like, I've just been kinda I've just been kinda I've been kinda out on it.

Like, I'm out on, like, Prism Deca. I'm like, I'm just out on it. It's just like no length. Like, I I don't I don't I don't necessarily need it. Also, final, I don't I'm trying not to be super negative on it.

Like, if you like it, the cards look super cool. It's just like I would just say, like, be careful, especially in these early days with price points because it can get scary quickly.

Yeah. I I think, like, the important asterisk on this conversation is that you as the listener are not the same collector as me, and I'm not the same collector as Brett.

And it's totally up to you. If you wanna collect this stuff, go for it. The more, the merrier. Like, I think that's awesome.

But for me personally, it just doesn't hit my collecting style. I think, like, from my subjective view, the idea of a nonaffiliated patch is just so such a turn off for me that it doesn't even make me wanna touch any of that.

And I I think there are good parts of this product. Like, I wrote in here, like, I do love the speaker spotlights.

That's something I've been asking for as a collector. But because of the format of the release, it's not necessarily something I feel like I need to attack in Chase. So I think, like, the moral here is that value is subjective.

Collecting is subjective. You can be for it. You can be against it, but you cannot be for it or against it for somebody else. It's totally up to each person. So just because it's not for me, it doesn't mean it can't be for you.

And I think the market is going to show that it is a in demand product. I think Panini, as the manufacturer, as you stated, has kind of found their formula in terms of what works and how to make the most profit.

And so the profit is the end goal for Panini. It's not necessarily collector value. And I think those two things are very different.

And, I don't know how sustainable a product like this is. I don't know if it's going to carry long term value. I I don't know. We have no way of telling, and I'm not saying that to insinuate it will go down in value.

I'm saying I simply do not know how to forecast the value. So, it's really interesting to see. I saw both the Reese and Clark logo moments have already been pulled.

Mhmm. So within one day of the release, both of the biggest chases as well as the Clark Green Kaboom have all been hit. And I think that kinda just proves who the target audience was for this release.

I I would love before we, like, completely get off of this, maybe for those listening and and we don't know if this is for you or not, but I would say, like, a lot of I would assume just based on some conversations I've had, like, long time collectors probably, like, aren't running out and spending the kind of money that this product demands.

I'm curious, like, what like, my response to this, Caitlin, and I'll I'll I'll share it.

Like, as all the attention and everything has come out, instantly, my move was, let me go buy some cards of stuff that I love that has been sitting out there that in light of this happening over here makes these cards feel like an absolute steal.

Like, that that was my move. It was not not to go obsess over this stuff, but it's like, there's this stuff I love, and it's just been sitting out here.

Now is the time to buy. So that's been my response to this. Yeah. I I'd be curious, like like, have you done anything or thought of anything potentially in response of this or heard of anything from longtime collectors?

Like, any feedback there? I think, I'm to be very clear here, folks, I have not been a WNBA collector since the beginning. Like, I got ushered in with the new class in some ways, and I think that there's a lot of credit there.

However, from long term collectors, people that have been here longer than me, a lot of what I've kind of seen and heard is where is everybody else?

You know, this only focuses on the 2024 draft class, which was historic and real and had a lot of impact on the game.

But, you know, we are missing some of the key players that not only are doing great things in the league right now, but without them, we wouldn't have this 2024 class.

And I think that's really important to say because without everybody that's built up the w and WNBA collecting, this product doesn't exist.

And so I wrote in my notes, and I'm just gonna read it what my general thought was, in reaction to this, which is this release does feel like a reaction to the current moment.

It feels like a chance for manufacturers to capitalize on the hype without necessarily acknowledging the ecosystem of collectors and players that have been supporting them here for years or decades.

With that being said, this product is bringing new eyes and new people to the WNBA card collecting hobby, and that is so important.

At the same time, long time collectors can feel left out and feel ignored by this release, and both those things can be true at the same time.

And I think we need to be comfortable with the fact that those two things can be true at the same time. Yes. So my that is, like, a perfect way, I think, to, like, put a punctuation point.

I think so much of online discourse is black or white, and so much of our lives, WNBA collecting or not, is black or or white, and, like, there's more gray area between all of that.

I don't know. I just I I would hope that, like, we can start having more productive conversations where we're not shutting each other off whichever way you are, which side you're on because this is a community.

Like, there is although this product is not for me, there are a lot of good components to this product.

And, you know, this can outside of this product, there's so many other instances, with WNBA collecting where we or just watching the game where Yeah.

We can be better. But aside from, like, picking a side and just being ultra negative on the opposition. So, yeah.

100%. And I I'll say this. Like, this isn't the starting line, and this is not the finish line. We are in the middle, and we have to be okay with the fact that growth is uncomfortable, and sometimes we don't get exactly what we want.

But the conversation should not be negative towards collectors with different differences. It should be demanding more from the manufacturer and saying, hey.

I want a fee kaboom. Like, I really want that, guys. Like, I really do. And by me saying that, it does not exclude how big of an impact this product is and what what it's doing for the hobby.

So I think that, like, elevating these rookies and amplifying them and giving them their flowers shouldn't mean ignoring others.

It's just advocating for broader representation in the hobby, And that's not necessarily a critique of the the '20 24 class.

It's just a push for more depth and consistency in the WNBA card collecting space. I think that's a great way to end this conversation.

And this was this was fun. I knew there would be a lot of energy around these topics. Good little bonus piece here, setting everyone, into a nice long holiday weekend, and I'm excited for season two ahead.

Yeah. Stay tuned, everybody. I thought this episode was be gonna be a little bit shorter. News flash. No. It's not. This this is just as long. Hopefully, you guys enjoyed it, and and we'll see you at the start of season two.