Welcome back, loyal listeners of the Stacking Slabs podcast, to season three episode five of the WNBA card podcast. My name is Caitlin. I go by at cold lunch cards on the Instagram machine and everywhere else on the Internet.

And I'm joined by my amazing cohost, Brett McGrath at Stackings Labs, and we're excited to continue to deliver collector driven and community focused content to your headphones, to your earbuds, to your, car speakers, to your radio.

Wherever you're listening to us today, we're excited to have you here, and we're excited to be here.

Brett, how are you doing today? I'm well. I am rocking some cold lunch cards, merchandise, supporting my amazing co host here on the WNBA card podcast.

A very nice fit. I'm glad we talked about sizing a little bit. I'm glad I went with the large. It feels good. Walking into my kids' daycare this morning to drop them off, you know, just, like, repping the brand.

It's Yeah. Get to those kids early. Start them early with the That's right. I'm just like, hit follow hit follow on the Instagram machine.

But, yeah, it's good. It's it's obviously seasons changing. Feels like we're entering the holiday mode. But, yeah, I'm I've got a lot of thoughts and a lot to talk about today, so I think this is gonna be a good episode.

How are you doing? I'm doing good. For our Patreon viewers, you may notice a a different background for me here. I'm surrounded by Michigan maize and blue, visiting my parents in Green Bay who are Michigan, crazy people.

I'm looking at Michigan pillows, Michigan pennants, Michigan bobbleheads, Michigan everything, including some newspaper clippings behind me. So I hope you enjoy those. Yeah.

That's that's kind of where I'm at today. I'm doing good. You know, I it's funny. I knew this about, your family, but I was actually oddly enough. I was like driving home, thinking about Notre Dame and thinking about the rivalries.

And I was like, stack ranking them in my mind. And I was like, well, USC is obviously number one. Then I was Michigan's probably number two, and then there's Navy.

And so, like, I was like going to that exercise. And now I'm seeing the the the big, M right in front of my face. But this is also a good opportunity because it's the WNBA card podcast and we talk about women's basketball.

Dude, I gotta talk about the Hannah Hidalgo. Ridiculous. My dad my dad texted me this morning and he's just like, look, sounds like I need to watch more Hannah Hidalgo this year.

So if anyone didn't catch this, which you might be living under a rock, and I'm sure this audience caught this, but, last night against Akron, she had 44 points, 16 steals, nine rebounds, and four assists in twenty eight minutes.

So that's like, I I I was distracted, and I wish I was, like, full attention. I was, like, dealing with my kids, and I was just watching it, like, on my phone.

But, man, that's, like, breaking Notre Dame scoring record and NCAA steals record all in one game. I think, like, the 40 burger by itself is pretty impressive, but then the stat that really got me was that 16 steals.

I was like, damn. Okay. We're talking about a different level here. Yeah. She's been she's been impressive in this the short time that we've seen. And in the minutes that she played, it was just great.

Excited for your Notre Dame fighting Irish. It looks up it looks like it's going up. Yeah. I was uncertain with Olivia Miles, obviously, transferring to TCU, how Hidalgo would respond and I think the best version is being shown.

So we'll see, what happens the rest of the the year. But yeah, it's good to have some, college hoops back in the mix.

It's fun following that following the action. And I wanted to maybe start here because I wasn't planning on talking about this, but this, like, caught my attention, and this is definitely related to kind of Arlene.

But I saw via Collect article that Paige Beckers signed an exclusive autograph memorabilia deal with fanatics.

And so the beginning of this article by Matt Lieberman says WNBA Rookie of the Year Paige Becker has agreed to an exclusive multi year autograph memorabilia partnership with Fanatics.

The company announced Wednesday the agreement will feature collectibles throughout her WNBA as well as her heralded time at Yukon where she led the Huskies to a national championship last season.

And it was like one of those, like, record scratching moments.

I was like, she what? And then I went back and looked and saw the press release from Panini, which was released in 11/19/2024. And the press release says Panini and Paige Becker's tip-off exclusive multi year trading card partnership.

And we can link out these articles for everyone to consume it, but the the you've got the multiyear partnership on the trading card front with Panini, and then you've got this new Fanatics, memorabilia deal.

Like, I didn't know this was possible. Like, what do you make of this? This is confusing to me. I thought if you had, like, a I thought trading cards were considered part of a memorabilia partnership.

That was my first like, this feels very semantics, focused. It feels like Fanatics knows that there's kind of a entrance here for them to penetrate.

And, it makes sense. Why why not capitalize if there's kind of a missing link there? If Panini isn't capitalizing on her memorabilia, fanatics, you know, they're never gonna not capitalize.

So I thought this was interesting. At first, it seemed conflicting, and then I saw, like you said, the memorabilia versus trading cards of it all.

I'll be curious to see if one of these kind of gets eaten by the other. It feels kind of strange to have two major powerhouses competing, for the same part of the pie here of one single player.

With that being said, can't be a bad thing. I'm excited to see more Page Becker's gear, whether that be, jerseys or game use balls or something.

That'd be interesting to see how that goes. My first my first real question that I had for Fanatics was if you have the rights to the memorabilia but not to the autograph trading cards, can you put the memorabilia in a card?

That's exactly where my head went. Yeah. So I don't know. This leaves me with a lot of questions, but, hopefully, a lot of opportunities, for both companies to capitalize.

Hey. I I got a shout out, Paige. And if she's getting that paper on two sides with two competitors, like, pretty impressive.

Very I was, like, trying to think about that in my little bubble of sports card content and sponsorships. And, like, I don't I have no like, I couldn't, like, very, very thankful that my good friends at eBay, support stacking slabs.

But it's like, I you couldn't I couldn't, like, promote, like, two major marketplaces, like, at the same time.

It just wouldn't work like that. And I know it's different. Like, we're talking about, like, a a a generational athlete who is a huge platform, but maybe that makes it even more impressive. I don't know. It's crazy.

Super impressive. And one thing I wanted to call out from the, the Panini press release from last year was a little quote, Brett, of Paige Becker saying, quote, growing up, I used to collect cards of all my favorite players, end quote.

Did you know that Paige Becker's was a card collector?

I did not. That makes me happy. I did not, but I will say I'm not surprised. And again, this is where I go to. This seems like a great content opportunity, right, to elevate our hobby.

You go into Paige Becker's childhood, room, go pull out the binder, and let's start flipping through pages, man. I wanna see it. I actually, I bet it's too much, Minnesota based.

I'll say that. There's probably a lot of Vikings, a lot of that stuff. None of that. We'll ignore that, and we'll go with the rest of it. Amazing. So I wanted to kick off this episode by talking about that.

But two primary topics we're gonna talk about is the impact of startups like Unrivaled and Project b on the WNBA ecosystem and how that maybe impacts and influences, the way we collect.

And then also spend a little bit of time talking about design. Let's start with this question.

As more players get opportunities outside of the w, which I think we all think is good. How does that affect what we collect and how we collect? Big question, Brett. So many different tentacles to, make sense of here.

I think that as we see more players, understand their value elsewhere, it can feel confusing to collectors. Right? And the way that I I wrote about this in my notes is an analogy, to, like, a a freeway system of roads.

So it used to feel like there was only one highway for collectors, and that was the WNBA. You know, you had a little bit of NCAA, but that's that's a that's a different level here.

We're talking about the pros. And so the WNBA was a a highway. And, with the WNBA, you know, you knew where the players were. You know where the stories were going. It was very complete.

It was easy to follow. And today, it feels like there's a lot of construction projects happening on the side of that highway. There's a lot of side roads that are popping up, which are, like you said, unrivaled project b.

I'm sure there's many more in the works. And suddenly, you're not sure which direction that your collection is supposed to be driving. And it can be really, really enticing to wanna go off onto those side roads and explore them.

And as much as collectors, we like to say that we wanna chart our own lanes, which, by the way, is a great analogy with my driving here. I think we still want a story or a map to follow.

It's not like we just wanna be unguided through all of this. So a sense of continuity or the big picture of your b PC, what it's trying to tell can become kind of muddled, with all these new opportunities.

So it gets a little bit harder to read that map. Your priorities, your plans, what you count as a core card in your p PC or even what you consider to be a true Ricky card can change because of these conflicting leagues and priorities.

But on the bright side, you know, I don't wanna call it just like the negatives and the confusing parts.

There's a lot of opportunity here. When the map, you know, that I'm alluding to gets messy, creativity tends to show up, both for collectors and it forces manufacturers as well.

More competition among these leagues could lead lead to more creative cards, better designs, more voices.

And I think that's the biggest point is that, you know, it's not about just ticking the boxes. It's about connecting with collectors. And if there's more competition, there's gonna be higher expectations for that.

So as we see these new projects like project b or unrivaled continue to succeed, I think collectors are gonna start to have to grapple with what they see as, like, true rookie cards, what they see as core cards, and to start to make those, decisions themselves.

You know? It's a good sense of of of autonomy as per a collector, but it also can be a bit scary. So that's awesome. I love the analogy. It's a great way to look at it.

And I think the startups like Unrivaled and Project b are introducing competition to the mix, not just for players, but I think the point of this is the attention of brand for brand identity and then overall licensing.

And, like, been following project b, and, you know, they're doing a rollout. NECA was their first, first Interesting first. Interesting. Interesting first for a lot of different reasons.

And then Alyssa Thomas was the second player. And then I started digging into project b a little bit, and I was like, alright. Well, when does this tip-off? And it's, I think, November 2026.

And so you've got WNBA, which there's so much uncertainty around, like, 2026 with WNBA right now. But you've got project b, which I I'm as a marketer in the build in public mentality, like, I love how they're doing this.

They're like, this isn't going to be our name, but we're just calling it project b now, and then we're gonna slowly roll out, and it's gonna be international based.

And I I we've talked about unrivaled. Like, their marketing and the way they do content is phenomenal.

So I'm, like, watching these, like, two weeks form that are very modern look and feel, and then WNBA is which we love and is the core league, but it just feels like there it's always tripping over itself.

So, when I think about, like, two new leagues in the potential of cards in those leagues, the the eat the one thing I I try to draw comparisons, I'm like, is this, like, potentially what soccer card collectors deal with with a soccer card, a player who plays in on different clubs and plays internationally?

Then there's this, like, jockeying of competition. So I guess that's where let's, like, start there.

Like, what do you think the new leagues mean for, maybe the competition and then the perception of WNBA, which is, like, the the core, league and the core, you know, collectible lane that we're all, you know, buying cards from right now?

Well, I think the the headline here is extremely positive. Like, I don't wanna downplay that at all. I think it's that the money's here, the audience is here, and the players are gonna go where they're valued.

You know? And I think that's huge. For so long, players have been undervalued. We're still seeing that in this current CBA negotiations at the day of the recording.

But the headline here is that, you know, these leagues exist because of the demand and that's massive. I do wanna, like, talk just just throw it out there, when we talk about project b is kinda like the Saudi wrinkle in all of it.

I think it's interesting to consider when we're talking about the word perception. And so I I just wanna bring it up as, you know, project b is a is a Saudi based, if I'm correct.

Right? It's a Saudi based, league, with, you know, some interesting backers. And as as the WNBA has always positioned itself as a very female forward progressive league, we have to grapple with this kind of new identity check.

And it it it the perception for me, what I what I wrote here, and I just wanna say it is, you know, the perception is changing.

It's going from if women's basketball can grow to who gets to define that growth. And I think that the Saudi wrinkle definitely throws a wrench in things.

Because I would much prefer a American league that's already established like the WNBA to just take hold and seize the opportunity here. But they're falling. Like you said, they're tripping over themselves every chance they get.

And so I think this is, like, affecting the perception for both fans and then, obviously, for collectors. I think the international angle like you said is very interesting.

I never thought about it in the sense of Soccer card collecting of how they have like a national team and then a club team I don't I don't want that like as a as a collector, I want my I want the Minnesota links.

I don't want the, you know, I don't know, Abu Dhabi stallions or something like this.

Like, that's not what I want. I wanna watch the Minnesota links at Target Center. And so this perception is showing me that the WNBA is not caring enough to want to, you know, capitalize.

I said a lot there, but that that's kind of my initial thoughts on perception. You you know, and and, like, I go back to this project be in psychoanalyzing much like you are doing here.

And I think about like, think about live golf, live golf license, got picked up by panini because there was an opportunity to produce golf cards again, another Saudi backed league.

But, like, you pour in money, like and it's like Caitlin Clark hasn't, you know, wanted to play an unrivaled, but, you know, if the Saudis are backing up the Brink's truck to get her in project b, what changes then?

And then it's like, well, we want like, there's people who say we want cards of this, so then that brings manufacturers out. And so I think there's just, like, so many implications.

And the at the center of it, what I can't stop thinking about is the c c b a negotiations in the WNBA. And, like, what if they, like, they stall? And also with, like, it seems like players are jumping around, contracts are you know?

Yeah. Players aren't staying in one spot for a long time. So, like, how do you think that, like, CBA agreement and, like, continuity impacts, like, overall collectability, in this conversation thread we're having here?

I think the impact is eroded trust for both players and collectors and fans. If a CBA is not signed and the only way a CBA is getting signed is if it's fair for the players, which means the WNBA has to pay up.

That is just what has to happen. That is how it works in the market. We cannot have it both both sides. You cannot see a league grow. You cannot see fans have their hearts and minds captured.

You cannot see this paying up. Pay your fair share. And so to me, I categorize this moment in time as strike by the air is hot. And if you fumble it, if you're not, it's a not just like a PR miss.

It's not just, oh, Kathy's losing her job. It's an open invitation for somebody else to take it and not internally. It wouldn't be the WMBAs to take. It would be project b's to take.

It would be unrivaled to take. And it just, it just complicates things for me. And, like, I wanted to hit on this point. You brought up LiveGolf, and I think it's interesting because I I just wanted to say this.

Like, the people who are watching LiveGolf are not the same audience that are watching the WNBA. Like, those could not be two different audiences. Does the WNBA audience want a Saudi backed, you know, league to be funding?

I can't I can't I can't imagine. I imagine, like, it like, if there was one league that if if you had, like, a percentage of people who said no, it would be supporters of the WNBA.

Exactly. And so to me, it's so confusing because it's it's we want the players to get paid, but if the system can we blame them?

And then we get into, like, just a lot of bigger morality questions, which I think are, you know why not just solve it with the CBA?

Just solve it. Just just make it happen. So, yeah, it we're just I'm talking a lot here about, like, the CBA and my opinions on the Saudi backed.

But it's it's interesting to see unfold, and it's exciting to see unfold because, hopefully, it's putting pressure on the WNBA to make sure that that doesn't happen, that the CBA is put forth.

I think we both agree that this like, the CBA will like, nothing good from a collectible like, us as collectors, what would come of it? And you you mentioned eroding trust. And I just think about, like, have you thought about this?

Because I have. Have you thought about the fact that what if they can't come to an agreement at the table and there is a lockout in 2026 when you have seemingly support for women's basketball, support for WNBA arenas being full.

You have this trending upward, and then all of a sudden, this could just stop.

Like, do we do we it seems to me that it will be hard to reclaim the position from a fan perspective, one. And then number two, this is this will have a negative impact on the WNBA card market if there's no games all being played.

Right? Yeah. Absolutely. I think about it all the time because I think about it all the time because I am a fan of the game.

Right? And as a fan of the game, I have to have this built in respect for players, and I want them to get what they need and deserve. But at the same time, I'm like, damn, get your ass out of the court and play some basketball.

Like, I don't wanna be sitting here, and I don't wanna have a podcast about a league that doesn't fucking that doesn't exist. You know? Like, we need to they need to get on this.

It really irritates me. And I think that there it's a massive, massive miss for this moment in time. Like I said, if we cannot get something done. And I do think, from a card perspective, that's going to be a gap.

And, you know, maybe it's helpful thinking, maybe it's me, you know, being from this position, from this vantage point, but you'd have to think that that gap's gonna be filled by somebody, you know?

I mean, there's there's you know, and we we tipped off this episode talking about page beggars having two deals with two different manufacturers.

If you think nobody's gonna go for women's basketball as a whole, once this, you know, if it falls through, something's gonna happen. And it it it's just like, why not avoid all this headache and just pay up?

And, you know, you've been when I think about the WNBA, it's like you've been getting a deal. You've been getting a clearance on these players for the past twenty five years. The least you could do is pay the fair amount today.

We're not even asking you for that back pay. You know what I mean? Like, they're not even asking for that. Just pay up, and then we can all go about our days. We'll have our games. We'll have our prism.

We'll have our good cards. And, you know, the other leagues hopefully all just, like, be these little side roads that we can go on when we're, you know, a little disappointed in how our team's playing or something like that.

That's that's how I hope it goes. Okay. Let's I hope it goes that way too. Let's talk a little bit about collector psychology before we completely move off of this and on to design.

But if the market splinters across multiple leagues, do you think how do how do you think collectors decide what's canonical? Do you do you that's one question.

The second question, if WNBA a CBA agreement goes take they sign something and there's no disruption in play and these other leagues are happening, do you think, like, the fact that there's multiple cards in multiple leagues, do you think that that helps the overall, like, market, like, kinda approach that on both those sides?

Okay. Let's start with the first one, which is about the canon, which I just love the idea of, like, a card canon.

Let me just say that. Like, I don't think I've ever heard somebody talk about I only hear about, like, the canon in literature and in books.

And so now, this is very exciting to be one of at least for myself, like, one of the first people talking about the canon in cards.

And I think that, the canon for for people that are unfamiliar, the canon is just, like, a generally accepted, highly revered top tier of something, I suppose, historically.

And so in cards, when we think about the WNBA, I think the canon has yet to be defined, and set in stone because relatively, we're not even thirty years in.

Right? And and I think, like, of the literature canon, which is, like, hundreds, if not thousands of years, has been built up to to build that.

And I think that the canon, for the WNBA cards is is yet to be finalized, and it's it's still up for debate.

And and an important point that I wanted to make is that the canon isn't decided by Panini or Fanatics or manufacturers or the WNBA or project b or unrivaled or any of those stakeholders in this ecosystem that we operate in.

It is solely decided by the collectors.

It is solely decided by the people who choose what matters through what we chase, what we buy, what we talk about, what we value. The canon is up for debate, and I'm excited to be talking about it.

And I think that if if the cannon if if the CBA does not, to answer your second question, if the CBA stalls or they they failed to negotiate a fair CBA, continue to show a lack of meeting the moment, and rival leagues start to take hold of that, that could be considered a canon event, and we could see a reevaluation of what it means to be canon.

And I think that, you know, we talked before about how this could open up questions about true Ricky card. This is could open up questions about core cards.

You might have you know, if we see this happen, there may have to be a reevaluate I think that's a good discussion. We'll probably continue to have that discussion. I don't we don't know about project b cards.

We have seen some hints that unrivaled cards are on the way. At the end of the day, we just hope that the WNBA is back like we want it to be back next year without interruption so we can just keep collecting our damn cards as normal.

I I we haven't talked much, which I know you have a passion for this, but we haven't talked too much about design.

And I think it's has a place, obviously, with WNBA cards and cards in general. Design tells a story, visual language of WNBA cards, I think, in in my opinion, should feel different.

This was really inspired by the Donerous Caitlin Clark card where she's just, like, screaming. And I saw that card and I was just like, God, I need a I need a I need the right copy of that card. And I'm gonna be, like, very snobby.

That's, like, some, like, very low serial number parallel of that card. But I I can't stop thinking about it. I'm like, God, this card's great. And I'm looking at the Donner's design. I'm like, this is actually better than I thought.

And I'm like, then the photo roll. So this is what really kind of inspired this chat. But I wanted to kick it off, Caitlin, by asking you kind of what visual styles for you fit WNBA best when you think about, card design Uh-huh.

Collect. This is like getting into territory. I just wanna I just wanna say this is all very, my opinion, my very subjective. Everybody else can have their own opinion. It's impossible to be objective with design.

I think that's why there's so many products out there and why we need more products that give collectors options. But for me, when I think about WNBA design, I think you hit on it at the beginning is that it should feel different.

It shouldn't feel like just following the leader of the MBA and being a recycled product of design, which it is right now. That is how it is right now.

I think that when I think when I close my eyes, I'm like, okay. What should a WNBA card look like? And how is that different from other leagues? I think simple, beautiful, clean-cut, but also challenging those norms and experimenting.

And I think that those things, you know, can feel contradictory, but I think they can exist at the same time. And so, you know, you you used, Caitlin Clark's Don Russ as an example.

And when I saw that in the notes, I thought to myself, I cannot use another ultra modern card as my example here because I I just can't I love ultra modern, but, like, let's let's compare and contrast.

Right? And so the card that I'll be using as the backbone for this conversation is my my not my favorite commentator.

I'll tell you that. Rebecca Lobo's 1997 Pinnacle executive Collection as my example here. And and so Is it this one? This is one of them. Yes. There's there's a couple of I gotta get the one.

I gotta get the one. Which which one? I'll pull it. Up, for a shot. Okay. Yes. But, anyways, when we think about visual styles, I think it's important that, the WNBA doesn't feel just like a template of of of the NBA.

And so we'll we'll we'll get into get into this more, but that's that's where I'm gonna start. That's where I'm gonna start. Okay. So what I I I found the card, so I'll pull it up here, when I get a second.

But what what products do you over the history and it doesn't need to be obviously just ultra modern, but, like, what products do you nail and defied kind of design elements that you think should represent the way WNBA cards show up?

97 Pinnacle, which is the basis of this of my example of the Rebecca Lobo, 2019 Don Russ, which is I'm very biased.

You know, when you have a player that you love and it's their rookie class and it's a first year product, it's impossible.

Like, it's hard for me to critique that product. So I got twenty nineteen Donros. There. This is the photo. Okay. Brett, for our Patreon viewers are is bringing up the Lobo.

The just look at it, Brett. What what do you think when you see this card? This makes me like you know what? This makes me this this makes me feel like the We Got Next WNBA, like, launch campaign commercial.

Like, I just I think of, like, there is an old school nature to WNBA promotion and marketing, and this card certainly hits that for me. It I look at it and, like, I wasn't even alive in 1997, and I can feel it.

You know what I mean? And that means it's doing a good job from a design perspective. I just also I'll just say this for for folks that that can't see it, that you're listening to our podcast.

It's Rebecca Lobo posed, elbow elbow under the ball. The ball's got, you know, the the multicolor orange and cream with the old school WNBA logo. She looks almost lost.

It like, where is the hoop? The hoop is nowhere to be seen. The background is blue. It's framed. It says Lobo in kind of like an italics, all caps, letters. It's just a beautiful card, and it it just screams WNBA to me for some reason.

And I, out of all the cards that I was gonna pick, you know, Brett, this one just surprised me that this is the one that stuck out to me. But the design of it, it just it it moved me for some reason.

Okay. Let's stick on your example and, like, thinking about the color palettes, the photography. You know, there's no real foil here or maybe a little bit in those borders or the logos.

Do you like, what thinking about all those potential elements that you could have in a card, like, what is it about this card for you? Like and this is hard.

Like, talking about design, talking about the way stuff makes us feel is really challenging. But, like, all with all those things and how they play together, what is it about this card that stands out to you above the rest?

Okay. So I I wrote down a lot of thoughts on this. I'm trying to figure out how I was gonna express this. Because like you said, it is very difficult because the easy answer is just to look at it and be like, LOL.

It's 1997. It's Rebecca Lobo. Like, it's just kinda funny looking. And then I thought about it for more than a second, and I was like, wow.

This is it wasn't perfect, you know, by any means. It's not perfect. It's not, you know, the best card ever to be made. It's not the 1952 Mickey Mantle. It's not something, like, super iconic, but it looks like something different.

Like, it looks like they were trying something new. The the texture of it that that there's lots of different layering, the framing of Lobo, the ball kind of, like, overtaking, the the the frame on the side. It almost looks three d.

The photo itself, it's like, what is this photo? Where where was this photo taken? Where is the photographer standing, Brett, to get this photo? Like, are they standing on a ladder? Are they using, like, a fish lens, a fish eye lens?

It feels ambitious from the part from the from the from the manufacturer. Like, someone believed that women's basketball could have its own identity. And that's something I feel like we've kind of lost over the years, that that thread.

But the best card like, the best part of the about this card when we think about design to me personally is the fact that Rebecca Lobo is is the centerpiece.

You know? You know, the the colors, the the foils, or lack thereof, it just elevates and and pulls up Rebecca Lobo almost popping out of the card. You know, it's a it's almost like I wrote down, it's almost a master class in restraint.

Right? There's so many different ways you could go with this card. You could really just make it way too busy, and some people might think it's too busy.

You know? But it to me, it frames her so well. It puts her in a moment in time of the nineties. The photo is just so funny. I just I just think that it's so balanced and of its time that when I look at the design, it screams WNBA.

What I love about this discussion and why I would love to focus more on this kind of, content moving forward is just the fact that if you're out there and you can visualize this card or you've never seen this card inevitably and you're listening to this podcast, you're gonna go look it up.

Right? You're you're gonna wanna see it. You're gonna wanna experience it. And if it hits you the way it hit Caitlin, then you're going to start thinking about how you might incorporate a card that looks that cool in your collection.

And all of those decisions and all that we're doing there, like, none of it revolves around the price.

We're we'd I've never we didn't talk about what the card cost. We did there's nothing there. And I just think, like, we as a community, not just WNBA, but just as a hobby, like, I don't know.

I just find everything to be more productive when we're just not we're not focused in directly on the price and leading everything about the price.

And trust me, I know the irony of this. We're moving over to the one card that sold. Yeah. Like, tweak where we will to be talking about price, but, like, that we're we're gonna be trying to do more with stuff like that moving forward.

100%. Alright. Let's get into it. And, Caitlin, back to back weeks talking about Adonis Paige Becker's card, but I just I couldn't help but not, like, talk about this, which I'll say this.

And man, I'm really warming up to this Donris stuff, and obviously, I'm I'm a Netmarbles.

Like, I'm I'm familiar with Netmarbles, but if anyone didn't see, on eBay, Paige Becker's Netmarbles, one of one black laser parallel sold, and it's sold for $11,500.

And this card is kinda sick. Like, I'm kinda into it. I just think it just I think they did a really nice job with the Netmarbles insert. Obviously, it is the comic book look and feel. I'm a big fan of the laser approach on these cards.

These car this card just to me is attention grabbing. Congrats to whoever owned it. It is a great way to, highlight a star like Paige Beckers on a on a basketball card. But then I saw the price $11.

05 and, like, instantly what I I started to think about Caitlin is, like, man, this is like Caitlin Clark rookie card prices, which I not I would always play out my mind, like, is Paige Becker's going to get to the level from a a price perspective, like click Caitlin Clark, did or or was selling for?

And it and it's this is, like, an indication that that we're there. So, like, what's your reaction, I guess, just in general to the card, from a, like, design and look and feel perspective and then the price?

To each their own. I I'm not as big a fan of, like, the cartoony looking cards just personally. I completely let me just say, I completely understand the pull.

And, like, I can I can see it? If I if I just shift my mind away a little bit, I I totally understand how somebody could could justify this being an $11,000 card. Absolutely.

But that being said, it's an extremely strong sale. I thought about what I could buy WNBA wise with $11,000, and I think that Diana Taurasi's highest selling card was around that, her platinum medallion. That was my first thought.

Would I rather have this or that? My second thought was that I was like, okay. How does this compare to other Paige Becker's cards? So I went in card ladder, and I looked up, like, highest selling Paige Becker's cards.

And her only Wings jersey, like, Dallas Wings jersey cards so far that are near this are other one of ones, which are the National VIP Autos or the Instant Draft Night Magma Auto, and those sold, between 10,000 and 16,500.

0. Her highest other sales are all Yukon jerseys ranging from 17,000 to 32,000.

And so that makes me think that, you know, this is kinda like a stage setter for upcoming releases of more desirable deeper lineage cards, pro uniforms. You know, my immediate thought was this is an insert.

Like, what the heck is the true gonna do? And so I think that this you know, the bottom line here is that this is a strong sale. It's a foundation for her market, and I'm excited to see where it goes.

That's that's, I love the perspective. I I love the sobering reality when you compare it to Diana Taurasi's catalog. But, yeah, I think if you got the card, we'd love to see it. Who owns it?

Yes. But I I know you have, some some pickups to check. Breaking news. Breaking news. Not only do I have Yeah. We've been we've been slow in this department. We have. But, yeah, breaking news is I have three pickups, this week.

The first for our Patreon viewers, you'll be able to see it on the on the screen. I've got a 2019 Panini Donrus, Jewel Lloyd gold laser PSA nine. I mean, just look at it, Brett.

That that's a good looking card. It is. And Jewel Lloyd is the subject for which Hannah Hidalgo passed in terms of in, Notre Dame's, scoring, single game scoring leader. So Jewel Lloyd, very topical in this situation.

And I'm realizing here with my, not great, Streamyard skills, I'm gonna have to do these individually. So you can talk about the next one, and I'll I'll bring it up. I just might be a little slow.

The next one is a mcdonald's tops chrome makayla blake's gold refractor out of 50. This came from good friend mark, mjs sports cards We met up this past weekend, in Minneapolis and he was gracious enough to hand this over to me.

And I was very excited about it because, you know, Mark's a a Nashville guy, a Vandy guy, and Mikayla Blake's been dropping 40 burgers like it's nothing.

I really believe in this player. We talked about her in, like, the 10 players to watch out for this season. She's already exceeding my expectations.

You know, I I kinda thought wait for the tournament for her to start making, you know, headlines. No. It's every night. She feels she feels different. She's she's a hooper. So I was excited about this one.

What do you think about this just like I know you've been into it, but this Topps Chrome McDonald's are all American set. Like, we spent the beginning of this episode just talking about all the variety of, like, options and leagues.

Where where do you like, why are you attracted to that set? I like it because it's existed for so long. Like, I don't think people realize, like, NECA has a, like, a McDonald's card. Elena Delle Don has a McDonald's cards.

It it it's just like a lineage thing. And, like, that event, I remember watching that event growing up and being, like, all the best players play the McDonald's game. You know? And, like, who cares that it's McDonald's?

It's it's they've been around and they've been, you know, championing it, so I was excited about it. Okay. Third and final pickup here is twenty fourteen upper deck Goodwin champions, Cheryl Miller out of 14.

And this came from a good friend on Instagram, Ginterwood Minis, who's a great guy, and he had a duplicate of this one. And I was super excited about it because, you know, we talked about it.

This this is interesting, of a card because of the airbrush effect. You know, upper deck doesn't have the license at this time to use UFC uniforms or any other uniforms.

I always thought it was interesting to see how they're so flexible and nimble with that. I'm a huge Goodwin champions fan. I'm a huge upper deck fan. And so to add this one to the collection, it's hand numbered out of 14 on the back.

Just an interesting looking card, that I was thankful to add to the collection. And, congrats on your pickups. Always good to see Cheryl Miller, all time legend in the mix.

By the way, I I'd been on a Cheryl Miller card not too long ago that I did not win. So that would have been cool if we had Cheryl Miller cards to to share, but, that is neither here nor there.

Let's move over to the collector that we wanna spotlight this week. Yeah. This week, we're gonna go with at repo two men on Instagram. This is a international collector based out of Germany, which I always think is interesting.

Like, you know, collecting, we can get so caught up in our city or the the shows that we go to or the state that we're in. And we forget that these people are all across all across the world.

This collector, like I said, based in Germany, so collects a lot of the Sable Sisters, which I think is fun, and other young players like Caitlin Clark, Paige Beckers, Angel Reese, and just a lot of cool stuff.

You'll notice, Brett, who's that in the, the profile picture? I I I'd like the international reach here and seeing Hannah Hidalgo on repo two men's avatar just war warms my heart to know she's got an international audience.

So I have request repo two men. If you're listening to this and you you have not already seen it, I've requested, access to see your cool card.

So if you would kindly let me in so I could see your Hidalgo grails, that would be great. Awesome. Yeah. If you guys don't follow at repo two men on Instagram, go ahead and give them a follow. Mailbag. Right? It is mailbag time, guys.

We've got a couple minutes left. We're gonna talk about some of these questions. As we said last week, we're alternating between when I Brett and I ask questions to each other versus when the audience asks this question.

This week, of course, we wanted to hear from you guys. I think we've got four or five questions that we're gonna try to get to as quickly as possible, Brett.

So let's start with number one, which is a two parter from at Derek Swinn on Instagram. One, what are the most common collecting lanes for WNBA collectors?

Goat rookies? Players? Question two, people collect players. People collect sets. But do people collect a parallel of a player of each year too? And I think it's important that we talk about this, just for folks.

I think we have all different types of people listening and to understand what's going on in the ecosystem. What's your take on how people typically collect in the WNBA card collecting community?

It's not exclusive to WNBA card collecting. I would just say, generally, my observations, and I spend way too much time studying the behaviors of collectors in this hobby.

The the if you had a pie chart, the majority of the pie chart would be, like, the the biggest portion would be player.

Like, that that is the a lot of people when they evolve and they're saying, we wanna build a collection, they focus on a single player first.

And I would say just generally in my observations at WNBA collecting, there's a lot of different ways people collect. But I would say, generally, player is typically, like, the entry point.

What do you think? Completely agree. And I think we'll see it evolve as time goes on as we talk about these new leagues and teams and expansion teams and stuff like that.

Things always change, but player was the first thing that came to my mind as well. Okay. Question two, from at kevin m cormier on Instagram. How badly will the jersey holding photos of the rookies hurt Don Russ long term?

That's a I think this is what I think, Jersey. So the Jersey holding I think of, like, Don Russ as, like, in the current state, like, the lower end product.

And it seems to me, like, if I'm thinking about basketball cards in general, first one out to highlight, typically, you're getting, like, the jersey holding photos over the in game action chats, which I'd much prefer the in game action chats.

But there's, like, a little bit of a lineage and legacy to it, where you've got I think about the, like, o three Topps paper LeBron.

Like, he's holding his jersey. And I just think, like, the jersey holding is pretty natural to collectors. So I don't know. I don't I don't think, for me, I understand what Donreus is.

And to me, like, the Jersey holding just kinda fits. So I don't really think it's gonna have any big long term negative impact. But what do you think, Caitlin? Me either. I think the market is different than, like, my personal opinions.

And so, like, I think the market's fine with it. It's accepted it, like you said, through different lanes and sports and years. But for me, I'm gonna stick to the on court shots, until proven otherwise.

That's where I'm at. Okay. Next question, Brett. You'll get a kick out of this one. At iowa dave sports card says, very soon, Panini will release its sixth year of WNBA Prism.

In that time, not a single WNBA MVP has had a rookie card in Prism. So my question is, who will be the first WNBA player to have debuted 2020 or later to win an MVP?

For what it's worth, my money is on Paige Becker's, and this is coming from an Iowa guy. It kills me to say this, but when I watch Caitlin Clark in the pros, I'm reminded of Trae Young.

It's like a it's like a stake in the heart there, Dave. And, you know, no disrespect to Trae Young, but this is so my answer is Caitlin Clark, obviously.

And I looked at I just did a look right before we got on. So, you'd be happy to know, going into 2026, the front runner for MVP right now at plus two thirty is is fee. She's late in charge.

And then you've got Caitlin Clark at second, and then you've got Asia at third. So I don't know why Vegas has Asia at third. Probably voter fatigue. But, anyways, I'm voting Caitlin Clark because I'm a huge fan of hers, obviously.

But she was first team WNBA in her first season, and she only played, you know, what, ten ten thirteen, whatever it was, games this year, quad growing everything.

So, like, I am of the mindset, like, last year and what we barely saw. Like, I don't really hold it against Clark, and I'm just I'm still hanging on the like, she was a rookie and made first team all the WNBA.

Like, her odds of getting the MVP. I I I would put my money in that basket. So that's just me. Although, I am a fan and, it's hard for me to go against the grain there. What do you think, Caitlin?

I I think that's totally understandable. I think the audience will understand that Caitlin Clark is your pick. For me, I cheated. So I put down three names because I can never decide. The first one was Paige Beckers.

I agree with Dave. But since Dave said that, I'm not going to say it's Paige Beckers. The second one that I said was Dominique Malonga, which is, like, I think if Dominique Malonga is dunking every night, you give her the MVP.

I'm if she buy all of her cards right now. Yeah? Okay. I'll do a small loan of $1,000,000, and I'll get out of that.

Okay. Dominique Malonga. And then I thought to myself, okay. But Dave's question was about 2020 to now, and we are stuck on, like, these super new rookies. Who is the player I think could win an MVP in those earlier years of Prism?

And I said, Ryan Howard. I think Ryan Howard is so inconsistent. It makes me so sad because she is one of my favorite players in the league. But if she plays consistently for one year, that's all she need.

Just one year. Yeah. He is an MVP caliber player. And so that would be my pick. Good pick. Yeah. Consistency is really important with her. When she's when she's on, she's one of the best in the league.

So Exactly. Alright. Let's round it out, Brett, with our last question from an amazing question asker, MJS Sports Cards. Mark, we often see people talking about how smart it is to buy in the off season because prices are better.

But for my PC, I have often found that cards are stickier, meaning they do not move out in my collection if I buy a card during a particular moment, run, or event.

What are some factors that make a PC card particularly sticky in your collection? Just one like, it needs to connect back to another card, and I have to have a desire to to own it in that moment.

I I the seasonality of collecting, I understand, like, the narrative. Like, I always view, like, that's mostly to do with, like, dealers or flippers and talking about money and what they margins.

I I I I like to buy cards when I'm excited about stuff even if it means more. And so a price is, like, secondary in that scenario where it's just like, I just want the card because it connects back to something else I'm doing.

What about you? I didn't even I wrote down three things, and that should have been my fourth is, like, the completion of a project or or setting out of a project. I think that's very important.

The three things that I wrote down were how long I've been chasing it. Like, is this something I've been chasing since I was a kid? Is this something that I've been chasing for a month? You know, that that's a factor.

It's the scarcity. Has it has it that? Is it a one of one? Is it out of 10? Is it impossible to find? And the third thing was, an interesting factor, which is how much I respect I have for the player or the person.

And I think that, you know, for me, that's, like, a perfect example of Nafissa Collier. It's like, damn. She could stop playing basketball today, and I would still collect her because of how much respect I have for her as a person.

And that it would stay in my collection. So if if all those three factors plus Brett's factor that he brought up, align, the card's not going anywhere.

It's very sticky. Great show. That was a ton of fun. Appreciate everyone for listening to the pod. We'll be back next week, and talk to you soon. Thanks, everyone.