We are back with season two episode one. You're hearing a different voice on the intro.

This is a little bit of a role reversal today, and it's intentional. And the reason it's intentional because I thought it would be fun to interview slash just have a conversation with Caitlin about her overall collecting.

We were catching up ahead of hitting record and some of the feedback that Caitlin has received, from you all has been, maybe learning a little bit more about our collecting and what we collect.

We share those updates, when we go through PC pickups and just commentary throughout these episodes.

But we discussed last week of the bonus episode doing more conversations, and, yeah, that's what we're gonna do today. So I'm excited to jump in.

Caitlin, you are on the hot seat, today. Hopefully, you're okay with that. You're ready to talk about how you collect, why you collect all of those things. But how are you doing? You ready for this? I'm so ready.

There when you post this idea to me of you were going to be the first kind of collector conversation or interview, I was like, thank god. I love talking about cards, and I especially love talking about the cards that I own.

So this is gonna be super exciting. I'm stoked to share with you all, maybe a a peek behind the curtain into what my collecting looks like beyond just what you guys see in pickups of the week, from season one.

Awesome. So we're gonna I'm gonna I've I've broken this down into a few different categories. The first one is evolving collector collecting philosophy.

And Caitlin, I think I go back to maybe our first interactions and us first talking with each other about WNBA cards, trading DMs, having conversations, and that was in a hobby timeline.

It was a long time ago, and a lot of stuff has changed over the course of that time.

I think at the beginning of the first season, you noted just overall growing momentum in women's basketball cards. We've talked about building collections with intention.

There's trends, everything else that's going on. I guess, maybe to kick things off, how has your WNBA card collecting philosophy evolved? Change is a scary word. We talk about that, but evolved since we first started the podcast.

Yeah. That's a big question. I wouldn't say the core values of my personal collection have changed since we begun begun the podcast, but my collection is always shifting.

I think that's the main point here is that sometimes I grow into cards, meaning that, I discover a new set or a new parallel or even a new player that interests me, and I dive in headfirst.

Or I can outgrow something that's already in my been in my collection, say, for a year or two, And suddenly, I look at it, and it doesn't bring me that same joy.

And I suppose that's where the learning from season one has really come into play is this idea of being allowing yourself to grow into and out of certain cards and giving yourself that grace, and removing that pressure, I suppose, to hang on to every single card or to pick up every single card that I see.

And that's definitely a difficult tension, to balance in collecting because I wish I had an unlimited budget where I could just buy everything and keep it forever. But, unfortunately, that's just not the case.

So I'd say since we started the podcast, the main thing that I've kind of improved in my collection is that flow in and out of my PC. So I love this, concept. The way you think about how you collect is similar to the way I do.

And I think, fundamentally, you think about you've got money, a card pops up, you look at the card, the card feels right to you, and you decide to spend your money on the card, and you get the card, and the card goes in your collection.

Now I I view it from the perspective of, like, that instead of just having this cash that you're gonna go spend on something maybe silly, trivial, or just sitting in your account, you decide to use that money to buy something that makes you happy.

Now that happiness for that card might not always be there.

Right? You see something else you like. But I think having the mindset that things change or things evolve, you know, is I found a maybe more satisfying way to operate because you're not staying static.

Think you're letting things come to you, and you become more adaptable with the way releases happen, the market happens, your interest.

Have you always kinda had that mindset of, maybe what I'm buying right now, while I really like it, might not be a forever PC card, or is that something new?

I don't think that's always been with me. I think that's taken a long time to kind of develop. And I think I just wrote down as you were talking this idea of staying true or honest to myself.

And I think that that's so important in collecting because there's no reason why you should put up a facade as to why a certain card should stay in the collection versus leave the collection.

It's about your collection, not the media's, not the hobbies, not your friend's collection.

It's yours. So if you find yourself kind of convincing yourself or justifying why a certain card is still in your collection, maybe it's time to rethink that process.

And I think by giving myself that flexibility, I've been more honest about what I wanna collect, and then the cards that do come in are more powerful and meaningful to me.

I love it. There is, in order to have that mindset into kind of be adaptable and evolve, like, you have to, as a collector, be okay with selling cards.

And we've talked about this a lot where we wish everything we bought, we could just keep it really nice. But there's tension. Right? Well, there's only so much so many, dollars that can go towards cards.

And when a bigger card or a more desirable card pops up, sometimes it causes us to say goodbye to certain cards in the PC. I found, though, and this is an exclusive to WNBA collecting.

I think this is part of the being part of the community and, you know, I know you we've had some conversations about this, but it just it feels at times, you know, if we post a card two months ago because we liked it at that time, but then another card pops up, We have to sell the card that we posted two months ago to help fund this card.

Sometimes it feels like there is judgment from individuals or people don't feel like that's something you should be doing.

And maybe this is my anxiety coming in, but I don't know. How do you think about that? Like, how do you think about this the fact that sometimes maybe the car that you bought has a shorter lifespan in your collection.

And other individuals, though, who follow you might see this and might think, well, why is she getting rid of this now?

Maybe talk a little bit about the selling component and just, comments and commentary that might come from the community when they see you sell something. Yeah. Let me just say I feel that push and pull internally as well.

So then when an external comment or, somebody says something about that, it's definitely, uncomfortable. I think it's something that we have to talk about, and this is a really good space to kinda speak on it and break it down.

And I think that the top line here is that nobody owes an explanation to anybody in the hobby as to why they're selling a card.

That doesn't mean I can't provide one to you. I would say most of my decisions to sell are either to purchase a card that I'm looking at or to quote, unquote back pay a card that I've already bought.

Now that does not mean that I only sell cards for that reason. Sometimes I'll buy a card. Let's just use some arbitrary number for a 100, and it comps at $200 the next day.

Well, maybe that card isn't worth $200 to me. But there is a card out there that is worth 300 to me, and it's available for 200. I can now move this $100 card into that. And that kind of transaction isn't necessarily me saying, okay.

This card meant nothing to me when I bought it. That it's actually the opposite. Sometimes cards are just vehicles into more PC cards, and I think that's something that I have to accept and that other people have to understand.

Unless you're willing to loan me a small loan of a million dollars, everything's going to have to come and go at some point. And I I I feel like I'm pretty transparent in what is moving in and out of my collection.

If you guys follow me on Instagram, I have highlights where I track every single card that I bought since the beginning of twenty twenty four, I think, is in a highlight saying sold, PC, or available.

And I keep those updated on a weekly basis so that people understand that I'm trying to be as transparent as possible.

I'm not trying to hide the fact that I'm selling something. I'm not ashamed to be selling something. And sometimes, like I said, I just grow out of or grow into cards, and the result of that is that sometimes things have to be moved on.

So yeah. Well, when somebody approaches me or makes a comment, even if it's not about my collection, it's about somebody else's says, oh, you picked up this card a week ago.

Why is it for sale? I just encourage people to think about it before leaving those kinds of comments or to, before messaging somebody like that.

I think a lot of people sell for a lot of different reasons, and you have no idea what kind of situation they're in. And the answer might just be they want to sell it.

There might not be anything more to it, and I think as a community, we just need to to accept that. I love this, and I've I've shared similar sentiment that we don't we don't owe an explanation to anyone.

Like, this is our collection, the way we collect. But if I sense through, maybe I'm a obsessive compulsive when it comes to analyzing the words people use when they're posting about stuff.

And I sense this, like, when individuals have cards for auction or these cards for sale, like, collectors feel, like, they need to let people know, like, even if it's, like, oh, I bought this big card.

I'm consolidating down. Here's all these. And I always, like, see those posts.

I'm like, do do you, like, do you feel obligated to, like, tell the community why you're doing what you're doing? And some people might, which is fine. That's their MO, but I've always felt like what it's nobody's business but my own.

The other thing is, like, I would love your, feedback on this. I this term, like, true collector, I I I hear that and see it, and I'm always just like, what does that even mean?

And I think individuals have positioned this term true collector to be a term that is used for individuals who just amass cards and never sell it sell them.

But when I I've had hundreds of conversations with hundreds of collectors over the years doing this episode.

I I can't tell you one collector I've ever met who has never sold a card. So I don't know. It just seems like it's, false advertising in a way or just positioning to make people feel bad about selling cards.

But, you know, before we move off this topic, I'd love to get your feedback on just, like, that phrasing of true collector and what you think it means or doesn't mean.

Yeah. I mean, just like in life, people love to create labels so that they can make sense of something that maybe doesn't make sense to them.

And I think true collector would be something that we would all aspire to be. I think I would define myself as a whatever a true collector means.

I collect true to myself. But this idea of hoarding is not the same as collecting, and I think I would even push back and say that true collectors understand that that things must move on and move through your collection.

But I I don't think there's a holy grail of collecting styles that is better than another.

And I think that that idea is, I suppose, pushed by people who either wanna put other people down or amplify themselves, and there's just no need.

I would say true collector is somebody that collects what they love, and they don't care what other people have to say about it. Alright. Let's get into kind of market trends, hype, and how that's impacted your collecting.

Maybe a good place to start would be, did you get any feedback last week on just the rookie royalty of it all? Like, what what did you like, did what we say was that was that, like, sound? Like, did you get a reaction from anyone?

And I use rookie royalty to kick it off because we're talking about hype and I'm there's no better subject. But what kind of feedback did you get last week? Lots of different kinds of feedback, and I appreciate all of it.

All the engagement is helpful, but I think the the wide majority of folks that, I seem to interact with and associate myself with tended to agree with me, which is is nice.

But there were also people that pushed back and said I really enjoy this product, and I and I hope they know that if they listen to the episode that we encourage that as well.

So it was it was interesting. I would say I also read the piece by Anne Marie at Women on Tops. She published a piece in The Athletic talking about the product, and I agreed with a lot of what she said.

So it seems to be making buzz whether or not it's coming from us or others. And I think the wide majority of folks, understand, the balance between hype, whether it's authentic or manufactured.

Awesome. I wanna talk about so what I like about, the way you've communicated your about your collecting, and I I think I've tried to do the same thing, but just, like, let the audience know.

It's like, we have not been doing this for as long as probably you have.

As a matter of fact, like, we came from, like, football card collecting in other pockets and ended up in WNBA collecting because we watched WNBA really enjoying it.

It was just a natural marriage. So since you we since you have come back into collecting cards, there's obviously been a lot of shift you collected pre Caitlin Clark.

Boom. Caitlin Clark. Boom is here. Rookie royalty. We're we saw kind of Asia Wilson's, you know, platinum written out at a 25 sell for a, you know, record price.

There's been crazy like, there's been thousand dollar sales, like, just regularly, which wasn't it wasn't happening kind of a couple years ago.

Mhmm. The interest is up. But I'm curious, how has in your time collecting WNBA, like, what what's it been like kind of riding the highs, maybe paying attention to lows, and finding opportunities to land cards for your collection?

Yeah. It's been a roller coaster. That's for sure. But it feels like we're only going up on the roller coaster right now, since I joined.

Yeah. As you mentioned, I kinda get in a bit before the Caitlin Clark boom of it all, at least the mainstream boom. I would say she's had, like, a million ups, since I joined.

She was already, I would say, like, inexpensive card when I joined the market. That being said, I was buying autos of hers for under a $100. So we're not talking about how it is today, but I was ahead of that curve a little bit.

And and you talked about riding the highs and identifying opportunities, and I think that's kinda what I wanna tease out of this conversation is this idea of that finding value in WNBA card collecting because I think that, as we saw the market go up and up and up and up for Caitlin Clark, other players also were climbing, but at a slower pace.

And I don't think it takes, like, a genius or, like, some super crazy algorithm advanced stat analysis to understand maybe that certain players are going to have hype entering into the WNBA.

I don't think that takes, like, a huge prediction model.

I think it just takes paying attention to the game and watching the games. And so as a collector, I really got into women's basketball through NCAA before the WNBA, and that's kind of guided my thinking into the pros.

So, yeah, like you said, I I got in a little bit for Clark, which means I was also aware of Paige. I'm also aware of Sarah Strong and Juju Watkins in this next class coming up.

And like like I said, I I don't think it takes this incredibly difficult equation to understand that there is a lot of female players, female hoopers coming through that are gonna have a similar, maybe not as dramatic of a of a increase in value, but similar to Caitlin Clark.

And I think that that's what I've been trying to capitalize off of when we talk about, buying and selling.

And so while I have plenty of I we talked about this before the episode. The in my WNBA collection or women's basketball collection, the player that makes up the most space is Caitlin Clark, and I never would have predicted that.

It's just because I got in early and I held on to them. And a similar thing is happening now with Paige and Sarah Strong as those are making up more and more of my collection.

So when the hype hits, like Caitlin Clark or Paige, I'll sell those and then redirect that funding into a more core piece of my PC, like in a piece of Collier.

I kinda jumped around a bit in your question there, but I hope that answers it.

Yeah. No. And I I wanna get into, like, this idea of inflation, hype, buying smart, I think. And just, like, let's look at a really an example staring at us in the face.

It's like, we we last week did our WNBA, our all star drafts. There was only one rookie that was mentioned in it's because you drafted Paige, which naturally, as a starter, was going to be a part of the conversation.

Now neither of us mentioned, Sonia or Kiki, and they're all stars. So to me, knowing how the hobby hobbies, right, they'll they'll be a viewpoint on, wow, like, Kiki and Sonia, along with Paige in year one, became all stars.

Like, what does that mean for the rest of their career, which I would say their path to stardom is certainly accelerated.

The year prior is just Clark and Reese. This year, there's three rookies. So there's, I guess, rookie royalty if if you wanna use that phrasing, but the hobby loves rookies.

So we think about all the collectors who are seeing what we're seeing and excited about these players, and obviously, will run a run to to their rookie cards and buy their rookie cards.

Like, how do you manage, like, the excitement and the hype of these this rookie class?

But then you see also, like, a player like Alicia Gray who is having an insane year, but nobody's I mean, there there's one or two people I see posting and collecting their cards, but from the broader scale, it's like no none of the attention are on, like, those veterans who have been grinding for years and are having their moments.

Like, how do you think about, like, all of those dynamics in the ecosystem and deciding, like, how do I make sure I'm not buying at the peak of these players, but I'm being smart and intentional about how I collect cards that I really want?

Well, this isn't unique to WNBA collecting. I'll say that first and foremost is this happens across the hobby, across hobby segments as rookies obviously demand a premium because you're betting on their success in the future.

And I think that, you know, one point that you you said is make sure you're not buying at the peak.

And I think a good question for one to ask yourself is if you bought this card at the peak and then it went down, assuming, you know, the peak means the top, would you be mad?

Would you feel betrayed by the market that you bought that card? And if the answer is yes, maybe we shouldn't be buying that card.

But if the answer is no and you say, okay. I'm fine with buying at the peak. And this could be peak doesn't have to mean $20,000. Peak could mean a $100. Do you know what I mean?

I bought this at the peak, and I am satisfied with it because it's the card that I wanted, and I want to hang on to it as long as I can, as long as it brings me joy, then I think that it's okay to buy at the peak.

So I think that's a good tool that a collector can ask themselves as to, kind of the motivation behind buying something. I know you, are very intentional about how you spend your money and what you buy.

How do you when you're, like, going through the qualification process, let's just say the card either pops up on eBay, or the cards available in a group you're in.

Mhmm. How do you, like, talk to us about the process you go through in order to, like, make sure all those boxes are checked until you finally get to the point of, like, yep.

Price is good. That's a card I want. Like, what's all going on in your head when you're do when you're making a card?

I don't know if you wanna know what's all going in my head, but let's let's break it down, I guess. So let's say I see a card in, like you said, like, a group that I'm a part of.

The first thing that I'm gonna do is ask myself, did I think about this card before I saw it? It doesn't have to be the exact card, but, like, did I think about a version of this card before it popped in front of me?

And it like, do I have that object permanence of sorts of this is a card that I wanted, not just something that, like, makes my eyes light up and be like, oh, that's shiny and nice.

If the answer is yes, then we'll move on to the next step. And I I don't have, like, a guide here that I wrote down. That's just kind of what I go through is like, okay. It's a card that I I've imagined in some some kind.

Now I think about, does it fit in the collecting philosophy that I've built for myself? So we can use Nafisa Collier as an example because that's somebody that I'm working towards my collection, building it up.

I've set the framework for my fee PC to be a six pack, meaning I'm looking for six cards that make one big puzzle. And once I get to six, I wanna feel satisfied. I don't wanna feel like I'm continuing to chase.

Some people can't do that, and that's totally okay. That that you don't have to be like that. You don't have to say, I have a finite number of cards that I'm looking for, and I just need to fill in those pieces.

But for me, that's what I'm doing. So right now, I have three fees that I've identified as being part of that six pack. Now I've defined numbers four through six as being I want for example, I want a galactic fee.

I want a gold rookie fee. And then that sixth one, I'm kind of leaving as a wild card to give myself some flexibility. So we're just using theme as example.

I've imagined this card. So let's say it's a galactic. Well, now I'm automatically buying it. It doesn't even matter. It could be two times over comps. I think price has a lot less to do with it for for this kind of collection.

But let's say it's a card that doesn't fit in those two prescribed, gaps in my six pack. It's that sixth one that I haven't yet thought about. If it just I don't know how to explain it, Brett.

It's so complicated. I think collectors understand what I'll say is when I see it, I'll know. And it'll just click, and it'll fit into what I think of as the cold lunch cards collection, not the stacking slabs collection.

And I think that's so important is does it fit with your philosophy and your, goals as a collector? So when I think about okay. I see this card.

Does it have I thought about it before? Does it fit in my existing guidelines and framework that I've set for myself? Is it a decent price? I don't wanna play 10 x over comps. And I would say the final thing is, does it look nice?

I think there's this whole idea, and we touched on this in season one in a mailbag question of if the aesthetics of card don't hit for you, but the quote, unquote, hobby significance does, would you still bring it into your collection?

The answer for me is no. The card's gotta be pretty, and I I want something that looks nice in this six pack I'm putting together. So that's kind of the the framework that I use to look at a card. I wanna hit on one piece of that.

You mentioned the a card you've been thinking about it popping up. What like, is there an instance where you see a card that, you know, is for sale and you're, you know, trying to process you don't take action.

You get up from your desk, go on with your day, but, like, that card, like, pops up in your head. Like, the like, do do you find yourself going back, like, using it as, like, a measuring stick of I'm still thinking about that card Yeah.

Something there. Does that happen with you? That happened. I can provide a concrete example that I remember, which is the Nafissa Collier 2024 Prism Cherry Blossom.

That was the card that kept invading. It just it wouldn't leave me alone, and I had this thought in my mind of, well, it's not, it doesn't have a strong lineage in WMBA collecting.

It's out of 20. And for some reason, out of 10, it's just the hobby's gold standard. Right? It's not in a PSA 10. Why is this card calling to me? And it's because I liked it, and I liked the look of it, and I thought it was unique.

And, yeah, I I saw it listed in a group, and I was like, well, that's pretty neat. And then I left it be. And then I came back to it, like, twenty minutes later.

I'm like, oh, it's still up for sale. And come back to it an hour later. Oh, it's still up for sale. And I'm like, okay. I keep checking on this card, and if it's not for sale, I'm gonna be disappointed.

So I need to jump on it now. And so that that's kind of an example of of when that happened. Perfect example. Awesome card. Let's move over to representation and community in the hobby.

We spent one of my favorite moments of this past, season was digging into your at the Minnesota card show and you mentioning, you know, your table got a lot of attention because you're one of the few that had showcases full of WNBA cards.

So I wanna maybe go back to that.

Like, what you learned from that experience, maybe, like, revisit that moment and what you learned from that experience and, like, how maybe you take that experience that you had at the Minnesota card show and kind of roll it into the national, which is, you know, a few weeks from now, whether it's you setting up to sell cards or you being on the floor looking for cards that you want?

Sure. So the Minnesota card show was an exciting event. It was four days. I had, to be clear, I set up with a couple other folks that were 99% women's basketball as well.

So we had kind of a a booth of sorts, spotlighting women's hoops, and we put up a beacon, Paige Becker's flag to signal, like a moth to a light for those WNBA collectors to come on in.

And I'll say that that show taught me a lot, and it taught me that, the WNBA is not for everybody.

Right? Just as the MLB is not for me or or the NBA may not be for you. It just isn't for everyone, and that's that's totally fine. But what's what's not fine is putting down those categories for other people.

And so yeah. Well, we had some some interesting side comments made to us, which was disheartening. The positives outweighed the negatives by a million times over.

There were, like, certain instances that I think I told on episode one that still thinking about them just get me so excited and, like, remind me why it's so important to have that representation of the card show table.

And I I guess I'll just, like, summarize two of them as we had a little girl come up, and she it was a 400, table show.

400 tables. You would think that if a little girl came in, she would be able to find her PC player at at least a couple tables.

No. She she only found it at ours. She was collecting none other than Natisha Heidemann, who happens to be somebody that I collect, and I was able to provide her with a lot of different cards of Natisha Heidemann.

She picked out almost all of them, if not all of them, and was so excited because we were in the back corner and she'd been looking almost all day for a Natisha Heidemann card and couldn't find any.

And we were able to be the ones that brought that to her and made that card show, quote, unquote, worth it for her collection.

That was really important to me. And not only is it about, like, the children and the youth and the kids and the hobby, but it's also about people who are not kids, who are who are adults.

And we had a lady from Fargo, North Dakota who drove five hours to Minneapolis, Saint Paul to come to this card show and find a Caitlin Clark card after learning about card collecting at GameStop GameStop one week earlier.

Like, brand new to the hobby, and we were able to advise her on what we thought was best for starting the collection.

And that's so powerful is that we as collectors who have been here maybe just a little bit longer relatively than than these new folks can kind of correct the mistakes that we may have made and helped other people, get into the hobby, especially in the WNBA space where it seems like, you know, we're we're kind of a niche.

We're a small contingent of the overall hobby. So so that show was amazing, and the people that I met were amazing. And I think that that is the thing that I'm carrying over to the national.

It's not about, oh, how much money did you make? Oh, how much did you flip these cards? Or, oh, what what what player was the hottest at the booth, which was the coldest?

It was the WNBA collecting segment of the hobby is powerful, and we make up a part of the hobby, and we deserve to be at card shows. And we deserve to go up to tables that have WNBA cards exclusively or women's hoops cards exclusively.

So I'll be carrying that over. I'll just be walking. And if I see WNBA cards in your case or in a dealer's case, I'm gonna strike up a conversation and see what that's all about.

That that GameStop example is stands out in my mind, and I think we as, old grizzled collectors, who are deep in the weeds, see things like Fanatics Fest, GameStop, Bing cards, and all these, like, big, like, neon signs of, like, cards come here.

And we see that experience, and we're like, well, that's not for us because we're already here.

But I think it's interesting, especially on the WNBA card side to be like, wow. Like, somebody actually went into a GameStop and learned about cards and was so passionate about learning more that they got in the car.

Yeah. Grow five hours to be around cards. And I as a marketer, it's like these are these top of the funnel moments, and I think we're as collectors, if you're listening to this podcast, I'm sure, like, you're way more down the funnel.

Like, you've been doing this for a long time, but I think it's it's cool to, like, even if something isn't for you being okay with the fact that, hey.

This could likely bring more people to the category that you're collecting in and likely will mean good things for your cards down the road. For sure. That that moment stuck with me, and I think it'll stick with me for for a long time.

So you've done a good job of, using the Instagram handle at WNBA card pod. If you're not already following and you're listening to this, like, go follow it right now. We'd appreciate that.

But you've used it as a vehicle to talk share kind of graphics of what what's going on, but with this show. But most importantly, it's, like, engaging in the community, whether it's mailbags, getting feedback, that sort of thing.

How has maybe in the the the season we've been doing this, this season you've been, you know, on running point on the handle, like, how has engaging the card community impacted you in the way you collect? Oh, it's been awesome.

We're small but mighty. I think we're at around 200 and some followers, and, the engagement that we get is outstanding. I appreciate everybody, whether it's a comment or a like or participating in WNBA Wednesday on the stories.

It's it's always fun, and I think the biggest thing that I've I've taken away from that engagement is WNBA Wednesdays where we invite the community to post, just any WNBA or women's basketball card in general onto their story and tag us.

And that's really opened my eyes to a lot of cards that I've literally never seen before.

Whether that's older cards from the Rittenhouse or Ultra Days or if it's just newer cards of players that aren't necessarily under the spotlight, it's really opened my eyes to what what exists out there.

And it also illustrates to me that not everybody is collecting the hype in the WNBA community.

Most people aren't, and that's really exciting to see. And so it's really just, like, giving me a new perspective of what collecting can look like.

And one thing that I've kind of taken away from those shares and those stories is that, I think I need to dive into some of this older stuff. I need to do it for myself personally.

And I think based on what I've seen, I've identified a player I think could be of potential interest to me, and that wouldn't have happened without the engagement on the Instagram with the community.

That's amazing. I enjoy it's one of my favorite things is on Wednesday after I, you know, put the kids to bed, I'll pop open Instagram, and I'll just oh, yeah.

The BMBA card Wednesday and just see all the incredible cards being shared, which has been fun for me as a spectator.

Wanna get into maybe collecting focus in your own personal taste. I believe you said something to the effect of, like, collect what you watch.

Mhmm. And I think so much of collecting for me is about, bridging that collecting with my fandom or passion for whatever the category is. Obviously, like, I couldn't imagine collecting WNBA cards and not watching the game.

And I think maybe some of the rub is I call it, like, soulless collecting where individuals are maybe leading with profit, and they don't care about the games or the categories.

They just kind of are seeing opportunity to make money, which I'm not here to tell you what to do, but it it definitely stands out.

I think the great part about the WNBA card community is that so many collectors are, like, in it, have an opinion, watch the games, have a team.

Maybe talk about with your own personal collecting, like, how important is being a fan of the game and being interested in what's happening, not only with your links, but just around the league?

Yeah. I mean, the links are the foundation to my PC.

I think watching some such a dominant force in the WNBA, you know, the links have been a dynasty for years, and they continue to produce players that go under the radar relative to the rest of the league.

And being able to not only watch them on league pass or via illegal streaming in some cases or whether that's in person at the Target Center, it's really helped me kind of grow my fandom.

And like you said, it's kind of a way to bridge the gap between the fandom and the cards. And so when I go to a game, my main focus is on winning, first of all, but also on this play style of certain players.

And so that starts with the links. But it also starts with or it also goes hand in hand with the opposing team and their players. And I think how I kind of think about collect what you watch is who stands out to you when you watch.

If you took off the numbers on the jerseys and the names on the jerseys and just watch the game, is there a certain player that stands out either because of their talent or ability or style?

And a lot of what I'm drawing to drawn to is style. I think, you know, as somebody who was not quite gifted in basketball, watching pro players that have a certain kind of pizzazz is really what what gets me interested.

And And that's what's kinda carried over to my PC is you look at Nafisa Collier, who's the leader of my team, MVP. Hopefully, finals MVP as well. We'll see.

But I look at a player like her, and she's so unique, so fundamental. And not only that, but I think that Nafissa Collier is a great person. And I collect a lot of what I think about them as human beings off the court as well.

So Nafissa Collier is one of those people that, okay, what she does on the court is very important, and watching her on the court has inspired me to collect her, but also off the court. And other players, not so much.

I I threw out an example in the notes of Maureen Johannes who's been, like, somebody I sprinkle into this podcast once in a while, who's been a a key part of my entertainment factor despite playing on my rival team.

I find her extremely exciting to watch, not because she puts up the best numbers, not because she's not even a starter.

You know what I mean? Like, she's not front page news. But when she shoots the ball, everybody's looking, and there's gonna be a gasp, and it's gonna be exciting.

So collecting what I watch is mostly about the style over the the, like, winning or the talent portion of it, if that makes sense.

I'd love your feedback. I know you just went to a Lynx game, Lynx Mystics. Obviously, the Mystics have two players on their team that are going to be very desired from the hobby. Sonia Sittron, KiKi Irifin.

I'm imagining and you being a spectator of that game, you're cheering for your team, but you're probably watching these two players who just were in college, who we all watched, and they have somehow seamlessly transitioned to the WNBA and are two of the league's better players.

They know the all star reserves.

What was it like, like, watching them? Was there anything you picked up from, like, being in not saying go collect them, but just things that you monitor to say, oh, they'd be fun to collect because I saw these things during that game.

Yeah. For sure. I mean, I think young talent is very enticing as a card collector because you feel like that implicit value is there. But aside from that, I think watching Sonia in particular is very interesting because she's so chill.

And, most players like, she's the opposite of KiKi. Like, if you look at all their their social media posts that the team puts out, Sonia at the end of the game is like, we got the w.

Like, great. Like, everybody good. And then KiKi's, like, screaming and excited and doing dances. And I think that blend is super cool to watch, and you can see it the chemistry on the team as well.

So I would say if they were on the links, I would feel much more inclined to collect them, because first and foremost, I'm a links collector.

But the idea of thinking about these rookies and people that are exciting to me is definitely intriguing.

Now that being said, I think a lot of attention, like we talked about before, is gonna be on these rookies, and it kinda makes me want to dig a little bit beyond that surface and go into other players.

So, like, one example is Shakira Austin, who also was on my Lunar Owls team in unrivaled. She is, like, improving quite a bit.

I think she won conference player of the week or the month at some point. And watching her, I was like, oh, okay. Sonia's here. Kiki's here. And everybody in the stadium knows about Sonia and Kiki at this point.

But Shakira Austin, that's kind of the strategy that I employ to find potential players to to collect would be somebody that's a little bit more under the radar, that tier two player.

I love it. Sonya is just so fascinating. I've I've been thinking about, like, being a Notre Dame fan and watching her and knowing she's good.

But, like, the way you described her, she's very inconspicuous. I think I think back to last season, I think, like, front and center, it's always, like, coach Ivy.

It's it it was Olivia. It was Hannah. So he's just, like, away from everyone. It just, like, kind of just, like, in the background as, like, a wallflower, and then she just, like, comes to the WNBA, and it's just, like, such a killer.

And I think those sorts of things are you don't need to be the loudest, the most boisterous individual. Like, you can ball out and be quiet, and I think that's what I've appreciated in watching her transition to the league.

Yeah. It's been super exciting to see. I don't remember what my prediction was for Sonia transitioning to the league, but I know it exceeded, my expectations.

You you and I both. Let's talk about maybe your, favorite card or cards. Like, do you have a card in your personal collection that you would say, this is my favorite, and maybe what's the story you have wrapped around it?

Yeah. I have a lot of favorites. This is like asking to choose between children for all of you parents out there. I have one clear.

I'll say that. There is a favorite. And I'm gonna I have all my WNBA cards laid out next to me right now, so I'm gonna grab it. And showing it for our Patreon viewers. This is by far my most favorite card in my WNBA PC.

I also have it, pinned on my Instagram. That's how important this is to me. It's what you see first when you click on my profile. And it's a twenty twenty prism WNBA and the piece of collier gold prism out of 10 PSA eight.

And the story behind this is super exciting as well because, I had bought a card leading up to the national last year from Iowa Dave, fellow podcaster.

It was a Candace Parker rookie card out of 04/1944 or something a little odd like that.

Very desirable card, especially in good condition. This one was in good condition, but it was raw. And I brought it to the national. It was not in my, like, for sale pile.

It was in the if we're desperate, we're gonna pull this one out pile. And I went to once again, we're mentioning Anne Marie women on tops. Went to her and John's booth at the national they set up every year.

Looking around, I'm like, okay. There's some great cards here, but nothing's nothing was like, I need to pull out the reserves of my case. And so I say, I'm like, okay. Do you guys, by any chance, have any fee laying around?

And suddenly, a case appears from behind the table. So this wasn't in the showcase or the display case. And Emery goes, here. You can look through this and see if you like anything.

And that's sitting in the case. And I'm like, can I have that? Like, is this even available? And she was like, I don't know. And that's not what you wanna hear when you see your grail card in a case is unmarked, no price.

I don't know if I wanna sell it. And that's when I knew it's time to bring out the big guns. I pulled out the the Candace Parker rookie, and I said, here we go. We gotta figure something out.

We struck a deal, and, I walked away with, like, the biggest smile on my face. I think there's a photo, actually. Well, we'll have to find it of me and Ann Marie posing with our cards because we were so excited.

And this card just represents that idea of going with the flow and letting certain cards exit to make room for something that's even bigger and better.

And, yeah, thanks to Iowa Dave, I was able to and Anne Marie, I was able to acquire, what I would consider by far my favorite fee in existence in in the world. I'm so glad you own a copy of that card.

Me knowing you and what you love and how you collect Card just feels right in your collection. What about, like, going into national or just your mindset right now regarding kind of collecting goals, projects?

Like, what's top of mind for you? Yeah. Top of mind is the fee six pack. I would love to be able to bring home at least one piece that makes that closer to being a full six pack.

I'm also very, like I mentioned, very interested in exploring some older cards. And the player that I kind of teased, in that section was Maya Moore.

I think that it's time for me to honor the GOAT, the true GOAT of women's basketball, a hero in Minneapolis. And when they had the Maya Moore jersey retirement at the Target Center, I I wasn't there, but I watched it on TV.

Cheryl Reeves says, Maya Moore allowed Nafissa Collier to dream of being like Maya Moore, and I think that that needs to be represented in my collection.

For you those of you that don't know, Maya Moore and Nafissa Collier, both hail from the same hometown, Jeff City, Missouri, and both ended up being the face of their team, which happens to be the Minnesota Lynx.

Both are heavily involved, off the court in their communities and making real change, and both happen to be generational players.

And And I think it's time for me to pay some respect, to Maya Moore and start representing her in my collection.

So maybe finding a playing days card or a rookie, which would be expensive and difficult, but that that would be like a lofty goal to try to meet at the national.

What is in the water down there in Missouri? That is I didn't know that. That's something. It it's it's really cool to think about.

And not only, like like, they both went to Yukon. They both go to the lengths. They both, hopefully, are gonna win a championship. They're both, like, trailblazers in the Minneapolis, Saint Paul community.

I just there's no reason why I shouldn't have a Maya Moore in my in my collection. I'll tell you this. Why I appreciate Nafisa Collier outside of her being on the court.

I appreciate the business side of her, and there was a post. I can't remember who posted it, but it was, like, highlighting an unrivaled activation that's gonna be happening all star weekend.

And it was, like, top comment was her, like and I can't even remember the copy she said, but it was, like, I I read it, and I was just like, that is what somebody who's building a business should do.

They should be active. They should be, like, cheering on their people and their company.

And I'd to me, it was, like, just a subtle comment, but I just, like, it told me, like, everything I needed to know about, like, the way she thinks about growing and building anything, which obviously, like, that's part of the makeup of, like, running the show and being the best player of on your team.

And I don't know. I'm just I've obviously, like, gotten to know her and what she's about through you, and I just she's a fun player.

And I've become a fan of the way of her based on not only the on the court stuff, but most importantly, the off the court stuff. Yeah. And I think that's just, like, so unique.

Like, it's it's one thing to be good at basketball. It's another thing to be good at basketball and be good at life, and that's what really inspires my PPC. So, yeah, heading into the national, we'll see. Hopefully, a lot of links.

I'm hoping to see a lot of them. Alright. Let's maybe as we're rounding out this conversation, wanna maybe get your perspective on, like, what your how we talked about it last week, but just thinking about season two.

We've both talked about just, like, interjection of new voices, fresh voices.

How like, how are you thinking about post bonus episode into this? Like, how are you thinking about, like, what you would like to deliver in terms of, like, voices or anything else to the audience of this show?

Yeah. I I wanna definitely spotlight some voices we haven't heard from before, maybe in any hobby segment.

And I I wanna highlight people that I look up to either in person or or online because I'm excited to hear from collectors that collect differently than me.

I think it's so important. I'm not the only person. You know, Brett and I aren't the only people collecting WNBA, and we're certainly not doing it in one we're not even doing it the same way. And there's not a right way to do it.

So I I'm really hoping that we can, kinda pick the brains of these collectors whether they're I kinda wanna do a diverse a diverse, interview as well of just people who have been here for years and years and maybe some of the more newer perspectives.

I think it'd be fun to compare those two. And I'll say a a big personal priority of mine going into this season two is highlighting female voices in the hobby.

This is a female led sport. This is a sport that, you know, seeks to improve women's sports in general. And I think it's really important that we highlight the women in the hobby that maybe don't get the same attention.

So I I'd really love to bring on some some collectors that, are women that are collecting other women. I think that's very special.

And I I I don't think we see that enough in hobby content in general. And then for it to be a a female sport, there's no reason why we shouldn't be, talking to some women on the pod. That's a great north star.

Couldn't agree more. Also, I'll just say this. I wanna just thank all the OG collectors who not only listen every week, but, like, are excited and don't come a place come from a place of, like, I know more than you.

Like, are generally, like, entertained by what we're doing and, show appreciation.

Like, that alone, like, I know who you are. Like, I follow you. I obsessively analyze people and collecting, and I just appreciate that. I think, it means a lot. We don't act like we know everything.

We don't. We just wanna share in our passion. And maybe, Caitlin, as we close this out, good content. Like, we're always trying to get something from it. You know, bringing new voices, we're trying to get something from it.

What do you hope kinda listeners will gain from just, like, bringing in new voices and maybe specifically bringing in new female, collector focus or collector voices, on this platform? Yeah. I think it it's gonna be exciting.

I think, hopefully, it'll allow listeners to dig a bit deeper into the past and recognize and appreciate what's what came before, say, Caitlin Clark or the rookie class and what allowed that class to to be elevated, but also look forward to a more sustainable, future of collecting.

And I think that by combining both collect long time collectors and newer collectors, we're gonna be able to get that. And I also think highlighting female voices is gonna be very exciting.

I think that the WNBA is viewed by a lot of women, and it will be exciting. I'll say this. I don't I don't hear from a lot of women on podcasts or in collector interviews, and it's gonna be great to be able to hear from them.

And, hopefully, it'll build some sense of community and camaraderie, to know that, you know, if you're a woman collecting sports cards, you're you're not the only one even if you are at your local card show, that were out there.

And, hopefully, this will form that sense of community for you. Hopefully, you all enjoyed, learning more about the way Caitlin thinks about, her own collecting and collecting in the WNBA. Caitlin, you're off the hot seat.

Always appreciate these chats. A little different than we've we're normally doing, but, I gained a ton of value. Hopefully, you enjoyed it too. Very much so. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll see you next week.