Welcome back, loyal listeners of the Stacking Slabs podcast, to season two, episode 12, the season finale of the WMEA card podcast.

My name is Caitlin. I go by at cold lunch cards on the Instagram machine and everywhere else on the Internet, and I'm joined by my incredible cohost, Brett at stacking slabs.

And we're excited to continue to deliver collector driven and community focused content to your headphones, your stereo, your radio, wherever you're listening to us today.

Shout out to you being along for the ride. Brett, how are you doing today? I'm doing well. It's hard to believe that we're closing out on the second season of the WNBA card podcast.

I hope the loyal listeners out there have been enjoying this content as much as we have, been enjoying, putting these shows together and having, the these chats.

I think it's I I I feel very, I feel a lot of energy and momentum around what we're doing, which is cool. And I'll also I'm just glad we could provide, like, regular content to this space. I think WNBA obviously has a ton of momentum.

There's a lot of excitement. There's a lot of excitement with collecting, and we don't know everything. And we talk about the fact that, like, we are relatively newer to this game as opposed to a lot of you out there.

But I I hope you've enjoyed what we've been delivering so far, because each and every week when before I get ready to hit record and talk with Caitlin, it's always, it's always very exciting, and it's a highlight of the week.

So I feel very grateful, and I know we're in the midst of the NBA playoffs, and we're gonna get into that.

That's on my mind a lot. But how are you, Caitlin? Oh, I'm doing so well. I feel like the reception from listeners this season has far exceeded my expectations even from season one.

I feel like the community that we're building, both just by projecting here into the ether into your headphones, but also on Instagram at WNBA card pod has been incredible.

I appreciate everybody interacting with our content, engaging with WNBA Wednesdays, which has been something that's been really rewarding to kind of lead and facilitate, just really show off all the cool cards and and even beyond the cards, the collectors in this space and all of you that are participating.

So it just means a lot. I can't believe we're on the end of season two now. 20 this is our twenty fifth, I think, episode, which is just crazy to think about, and each one of them has been better than the last.

So it it just means a lot that everybody's still here listening and, finds this content valuable to them. Maybe programming note. We'll be back with a bonus episode next week, and then we'll be on to season three.

And we have a cool, sponsor that's gonna help support the series. And I know you wanna talk about our current sponsor and, show some flowers, so let's get into it.

Yeah. Absolutely. So our season two sponsor, if you guys have been listening, has been Great Lakes Trading Cards Co located in Saint Paul where I reside off Randolph Ave. It's a great shop.

We've got lots of WNBA card selections, both singles and wax, along with other sports and non sports selection. If you guys visit the the store, you'll see our poster up on the wall, which is still kind of kind of crazy.

And as we round out this season, I want to shout on an event that Great Lakes is putting on On October 26 at Dual Citizen Brewery, which is a women owned brewery in Saint Paul, there'll be a sports card show put on, and all the cases are required to have at least half of their inventory showcasing women's sports.

This is the first of its kind that I've seen. I know Great Lakes is planning to make this something that's recurring and exciting.

I'm gonna be trying to get out there. I don't know how much inventory I'll have, but I'll definitely be, taking advantage of the brewery setting and meeting a lot of women's sports collectors.

Just something really cool that they're putting together that I'm proud to, that they're sponsoring us and putting this event on, and hopefully, it's one of one of many.

Awesome. We appreciate the support as always from the Great Lakes Trading Cards team.

All right. You ready to get into this? I'm so ready, Brett. Hit me. All right. Let's start with this. This is just like a question that I was asking myself before I was kinda digging into topics for this episode, but it is the playoffs.

There are four teams left. Two of them are teams that we support, and this is a podcast about WNBA and cards. So we're gonna have a champion here soon. I guess I I have I'm sidetracking myself out of the gates, but I didn't ask you yet.

Are you doing okay that feed and win the MVP? Have you gotten over it at this point? I figured we do have to address this since I was a big game. And you know what? Congrats to Asia Wilson.

Well deserved, incredible performance. I'm thankful to get to witness her. I think that, you know, appreciating greatness while it's on the court is very important, and four MVPs is just transcendent to the game.

That being said, I'm extremely disappointed that the voters did not recognize an incredible season from my favorite player who I undoubtedly have bias towards, but had a fifty forty ninety season, led the number one offense, number one defense, and number one team throughout the entire season, and was just incredible both on and off the court.

So just wanna give both those players those flower their flowers.

But, yeah, I to say I'm disappointed would be an understatement. I I won't argue with it. That's the results. But I guess that means this this, this championship run means even more now.

And I know that that's what fee is focused on and what the links are focused on. So I guess we'll just use it as more fire, or fuel to the fire. You know, it's like, for me as a fan, it's like it was splitting hairs.

You tell me it was fee, I'd say, well deserved. You tell me if it was Asia Wilson, I'd say, well deserved. And it's it's on the NBA side, we had, you know, SGA and Jokic going through the similar thing, and it's it's head to head.

There's a lot of good players. But, yeah, we're we're waiting for the champion. The MVP is like the opening act. It's like, let's see who the champion is. So that's what we're gonna be talking about today.

And so the question I'm wanna propose just in general, and then that'll set up for the rest of our conversation is, when a player wins a championship, what does that really mean for its collectability?

Does it cement their place in the hobby, or is it just another line on the resume? So we're not gonna answer that here, but that's gonna set the stage for where we're going.

But let's start here. Let's just talk playoffs. Like, we're at the time of recording, this is before game three, both series that we're emotionally invested in are one one.

We're at the point where it feels like anything could happen. So how are you holding up? I know you went to a game one, which congratulations on picking the right game to go to. Yeah. No kidding. That game was so much fun.

Let me just say, Target Center energy is incredible. Every time I go there, I feel a sense of community. That being said, I taught the kid sitting next to me a few, new words for his vocabulary throughout the game.

There were some tense moments, but we ended up pulling through with a win. It was very exciting. Feet put on a phenomenal performance per usual. And, see let me just say this. Seeing the Mercury in person is awesome.

Last year, we went to, a Mercury game and saw DT, which was on my list of have to do this at some point before she retires. And, when we did that, it was incredible. I love I I do like the Mercury a lot.

I feel like I've I've reiterated that throughout this season, especially, but seeing them with their new brand, like, their new personality that they brought on on with their big three of AT, Satu, and Ka is so intimidating.

I loved watching AT in person.

The way that she works is incredible. I've never seen a basketball player that kinda moves like that, especially women's basketball. It's just one of a kind play style, and seeing her in person really made me appreciate it more.

Let this be a PSA that we've given since the beginning of season two, and and I think even season one is if you guys haven't made it out to a WNBA game and if you're in the area or if you're on a trip where there is a market, I couldn't recommend it enough.

It's so much fun. But, yeah, I like you said, I'm glad I picked game one because game two had me pulling out my hair at home in front of the TV as we fumbled a 20 lead.

It was just unbelievable. I have probably enough ranting done in people's DMs this this week that I don't need to reiterate it. But let me just say Courtney Williams, once again, I I just have so much to say about her.

It's one day she's so good, the next day she's not. The inconsistency needs to be fixed for a championship level run. And the for the first time ever, I'm gonna critique my coach, which feels like a a difficult spot to be in.

But with with twenty seconds left on the clock, last possession of regular, play down by three, the Mercury, the the links have one foul to give, and not one staff member on the links bench is telling the team to foul.

I was jumping up and down in front of my TV.

I was my windows were open in my house. And looking back, I'm sure my neighbors were not, very happy about that. All that to be said is lot of things to be excited about, lot of things to work on, and excited for game three.

And, hopefully, there's only a need for game four. I don't know if my heart rate can take these these long series, Brett. There you you mentioned the Courtney Williams of it all, and I was thinking about you as I was watching the game.

And I can't remember the exact scenario, but it was clutch. It was winning time. It was like, we need a bucket. And the I was watching it. The ball didn't even, like there was no even thought to give the ball to Nafissa Collier.

It was like, Courtney Williams just put up a shot, and it just and right when it left her hands, I was like, she didn't even look at the I was like, this is bricking, and it was just clunk.

I was like, oh, terrible possession. Yep. Like I said, the inconsistency from her is just so easy to see. I've game one played incredible. Like, was instrumental in us winning that game. Game two, unbelievable crumbling performance.

Hopefully, the the links can just put in behind them and move on, and that's what I'll be doing. This is the last time we were to speak about that game because it was terrible. We got a lot of time left. I'll shed some perspective.

Definitely, game one, pleasantly surprised by the Indiana Fever's performance that you hear everyone's seen the clips of Steph White at every press conference for the last, like, two months, and she'll just say, grit this team.

Like, get all excited about, we play for each other, and, like, she's got these same talking points she says over and over.

And that was, like, the definition of that coming, into reality. And it was just an excellent win, excellent performance.

It was a great day, for me as a Colts and Fever fan. I was like, can every day be like this? And then Tuesday night happened. And, you know, for me, I'm in Eastern time zone. It's like a 09:30 tip, and I'm like, alright.

I gotta, like, slap myself in the face to make sure I can stay up for all of this. And I did stay up for all of it. And I don't I after it was over, I was like, why did I stay up for all of this?

It was just the reverse. I was telling Caitlin, I just like they fever can't get themselves if they can't get themselves out of first gear, out of the gates against a team that has the MVP, it's nearly impossible to recover.

So one one, if you would have told me that before this series, I would have taken it it all day every day, and we've got game three here in Indiana. It'll already happen by the time this goes long.

But I'm I'm I'm trying to figure out if I'm gonna be there or not. So that's it's gonna be a game time decision on my end based on, you know, having little kids and one of them not feeling well this week.

So we'll see, but it's awesome. No expectations for me. I know high expectations on your end, so that's it'll be fun to see how things play out. Yeah. Those 09:30, eastern time tips are brutal.

I can't imagine that. And let me just say, even even with how that game looked, there was a moment where the fever pulled, I think, within eight, in, like, the second or third court like, late in the second or early third.

And I thought to myself, if Kelsey Mitchell hits two threes right here, we're in it. We're in it. They're they're right there.

And I think that that's one of the things that the fever has going for them is their pace of play is just so hard to not get caught up in as an opposing team. But, ultimately, like you said, the aces are a powerhouse.

And being at their house at their home team, would be difficult to overcome that that lead that they built up. But it's gonna be fun to watch game three and the game we're guaranteed a game four for all series, which is exciting.

And, yeah, like I said, I'm really hoping there's no game fives because it's gonna be it's gonna be a test of my patience and, my my heart rate and everything else.

One more note for me, and it's nearly impossible to stop Asia Wilson because she's Asia Wilson and just incredible. But I I have really enjoyed seeing the growth and maturity defensively by Aliyah Boston.

It's like you can tell she's taking her role in this series extremely seriously and trying to defend Wilson in a way that is knowing her patterns of moves and giving her the space to do certain things, and it's it's it's very thoughtful.

I'm like, this is why I really enjoy you as a player because you're not going out there and just, like, acting like you're playing anybody, but you're strategically trying to play the best player, in the league right now.

And you also have the, the college connection between those two players.

And but they when they play each other, they don't act like they're friendly. No. Not at all. Which which is which is fun. Like, give me some give me some post moves.

Give me some banging down low. And, like, if you're into that, like, the fever aces series is where it's at because that matchup between those two is I can watch it all day. Yeah. It's interesting you say that.

I'll just my final final on this playoff talk, this segment is that, the physicality of the WNBA playoff product is just it's just amazing. Like, I love how physical it is. I I think it was Lobo talking on a broadcast.

I I could be, confusing over somebody else. But somebody in the league said, like, you know, if you compare this to the NBA playoffs, it's very different type of product being put out on the court in terms of physicality.

And you look at all four teams that are left, and there's four players that you have to game plan around no matter what.

It's Nafisa Collier. It's Alyssa Thomas, Asia Wilson, and Kelsey Mitchell. And you have to figure out a way to stop them. And just the powerhouse of teams that we're watching and the caliber of superstar players all still in.

These are the top four in MVP voting are still there. I just think the product has been incredible, and it's just so exciting as a fan.

No matter the outcome, I I'm just excited about the league and the direction it's heading. I hope we're both really excited the next time we record one week.

Literally. But let's get into it. So we're talking playoffs. Wanna fly through I I wanted to align our conversation around the Panini era and 2019 to move moving forward and just run through the list.

Obviously, we do not know the champion for this year, but we've got the twenty nineteen champions, the the mystics with Elena Della Don.

You've got 2020 Storm with Stewie and Sue Bird. 21 Skye, Candace Parker coming home, winning a championship in Chicago.

'22, 23, aces. We're hoping that's not, '25. And '24, sore subject, but we've got the liberty. So you've got I I I we go through the list, and I think about the championships and the players that were a part of each of those wins.

And I'm, like, wrestling with this thought of, like, early market WNBA hadn't really matured and formed from a collector perspective.

So, like, can we even evaluate, like, Dela Don championship that amounting to, her collectability in '25 when she's not even playing?

So, like, I'm just, like, trying to, like, push and pull on these different instances and come to this determination of, like I think this is a good question because in other sports, like, everyone talks about Mahomes, Super Bowls, Brady's, Jordan, Kobe.

Like, everyone talks about them, and they're, like, the most collected player.

So as I'm trying to, like, wrestle with this in my head and you've been thinking about this, like I don't know. Do you have any initial thoughts as we kinda get into this about championship performance, winning?

Like, does this matter for a player's overall collectability? I think the answer is yes. Absolutely. I think championships, really elevate the insanity of our fandoms in that if one certain player I'm thinking Deladon right now.

One certain player. It was Deladon who led that championship run on her fifty forty ninety season, may I just say.

But if she delivers a ring to your team and you've been there and you're waiting, I think that makes her much more collectible and desirable from from a hobby standpoint, and I think it it cements them as legends in the franchise.

Now I do think there is a a bit of disconnect here in terms of the fact that 2019 was not as big of an audience in terms of WNBA collecting.

We've seen a boom since the Caitlin Clark era, and, it was rising throughout before Caitlin Clark as well.

But we've just seen it really take really moonshot. And I think that, you know, because of that, Delle Dawn might not be as highly respected in the hobby as if she say one in 2022 or 2023.

How much of a role do you think the like, if let's say, if Deladon were playing this year, much like DT was playing last year, and DT was like it was kinda like a passing of the baton from, like, a legend goat perspective and, like, the card.

It was like card market was going up more interest than ever as d not because DT was leaving, but Yeah. Indirectly, DT was leaving. So she caught a little bit of that.

Delle Don wasn't playing during any of this rise in momentum. How how much do you think that plays a role in what we're seeing right now in some of those players and their prices? So much. I think it's massive.

I just I I have an entire kind of write up essay version of diving into this that I think we can get into a little bit later in the episode, but let me just preview it by saying that the players that are playing now are benefiting from that hype cycle.

And there is no doubt that Elena Delle Don does not have the respect she deserves, both in the women's basketball community as a whole, but also in the hobby.

And I think that, when we think about the ultramodern era of WNBA collecting, my mind goes to 2019 onward. But there's almost even a split between 2019 and 2020 with the introduction of prism.

And I think that that's kind of, like, the true really start of ultra modern WNBA cards, which is an interesting, kind of paradigm compared to other sports.

I wanna throw one more name out there as we get into more, like, the modern and what could happen.

And I mentioned her before, but, like, Candace Parker, for instance. I mean, you ask me, like, Brett name your five best players that you've seen in your lifetime, and Candace Parker is probably gonna be on my list every time.

I mean, MVP rookie of the year, same year. And just historic career, accolades out the wazoo. But oddly enough, like, I don't see many people posting cards, or I don't see Candace Parker cards going to the moon.

And I ask myself this question is I'm like, is this because she's not playing right now, or is it something else? So I don't know. Do do you ever think about Candace Parker?

Obviously, she's done a lot for the sport and continues to be relevant in media, but it just doesn't seem like she's got a ton of interest unless I'm missing something. Well, let me just say this.

Something interesting about Candace Parker that kind of reminds me of this new ultra modern market that we operate in is that a lot of the Candace Parker collectors that I see, just my personal, view, is there a lot of Tennessee Vols collectors out there collecting Candace Parker and not a lot of Skye fans say.

And that doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm just seeing more Tennessee Vols appreciation in terms of their hobby consumption.

And I think that that's so interesting because when we look at, the women's basketball card market today, there is a strict tie between NCAA women's basketball cards and WNBA cards, and we've kind of seen them kind of mesh more than what they used to.

But with Candace Parker, I feel like her college market has really stayed steady, which is interesting. And it's just something I wanted to call out is that when I see Candace Parker card collections, there's a lot of orange.

There's a lot of orange, and there's not a lot of, sky colors in there, which is just different. I I don't see that with as many of the older, quote, unquote, players.

What what do you think matters more? Historic collegiate run? And I'm thinking of Stewie. I'm thinking of Parker, Trossi. Do you think of, like, historic collegiate run matters more for collectibility or WNBA championship?

I think with the disinvestment historically in women's sports, in pro sports, the collegiate was more valued both from a media perspective and from a hobby perspective.

I think as we see women's sports, pro sports in particular, start to gain more momentum, either via corporate sponsorship, better investments, better facilities, better pay, that's going to shift.

But I do think in the past, the collegiate narrative held held more weight just because of the investment from the schools and the programs themselves.

I like it. Lot I mean, there's just a million topics we could get into, but let's discuss we're we're talking about there's four teams left.

You alluded to the the four MVP candidates. There's probably more within those teams. But do do we see anybody in any of these teams reach kind of the next level of collectability?

And and I'll preface this by saying, I'm a fever fan, and I had I never bought a Kelsey Mitchell card up until this point, where maybe that I don't know if that tells me, like, it's it's hard to win me over type of a thing or what.

But I think about I'm thinking about my own personal collecting as I'm asking this question, but wanna get your perspective. Like, do you do you, like, talk through the players, talk through kinda levels.

Like, what do you think? Yeah. The levels is what I kinda wanna call out here is that it's relative to each player. Because I think, obviously, without a doubt, Asia Wilson has surpassed Kelsey Mitchell.

I don't think Kelsey Mitchell winning a championship and even beating Asia Wilson would get her to the level of Asia Wilson's hobby respect. So there are relative levels that I'm talking about here.

But I think and, you know, maybe this is my bias, but I think Nafusa Collier bringing a chip home to Minnesota would give her the biggest kind of delta between where she's at and her total potential.

I don't think that that means she surpasses Asia Wilson in terms of hobby greatness, but I think she has a little bit more delta there to earn.

Now that being said, I think Asia there is a case for Asia Wilson as well. We saw that with the MVP voting. Going to four MVPs is just insane and magical. It's something I couldn't imagine happening. That's half of her playing career.

She has played at an MVP level, and her supporters would say it's more than half. So I just think Asia Wilson getting another championship would put her kind of at the creme de la creme of all women's basketball.

I think we start transcending the idea of best player in this generation to best player, period. And I think, you know, with the AT or Kelsey Mitchell, we're not in that conversation.

We're not in that same conversation. That doesn't mean that they don't have a lot to benefit. I I will say, I didn't comment on AT, and I think it's important to comment on AT.

I gave her her flowers at the beginning of this episode, but I think that taking an organization that had let me do little hope at the beginning of the year with such a change in identity, getting away from the legends of DT, BG, etcetera, etcetera.

Nate Tibbetts has really turned that program or that that, franchise into a championship caliber team in just one year with a lot of new, faces and bodies, and I just I couldn't be more impressed.

I think it's a real testament to AT's leadership and just unique play style. And I think that if she wins, we're gonna see a lot more people start to appreciate appreciate her.

I wanna stick on Asia Wilson for a minute. And although I picked the aces to win the championship at the, beginning of the year, I definitely don't want that to happen based on my current position as a fever fan.

But with that being said, I think about AJ Wilson from a collectibility perspective, from a category perspective, and you touched on a lot, like four MVPs, rarefied air, another championship, three championships.

Like, we're starting to talk goat. Like, wow.

We know that each of these sports, each of these categories really rely on the tent pole athlete who's done everything and played into our imaginations, and collectors go run and collect those players because they want a piece of them.

And then outside collectors recognize greatness and come in to the new category to collect those players. AJ Wilson's really on the cusp of that.

I think her winning a championship this year will set her interest outside of the community that's listening to the show, but the broader basketball community will there'll be clutches to be like, damn, like, I should get an agent Wilson card.

How do you think about that? Obviously, like, you want your team to win. Yeah.

I want my team to win, but those implications of the closing credits of the season being the confetti falling and Asia Wilson holding up another trophy, like, how do you contextualize that with what that possibly could do for WNBA cards?

I think Asia Wilson's ability to force outsiders to pay attention is unmatched.

I think that even just on paper looking at Asia Wilson's stats, accolades, even just like who she is as a player is impossible to ignore, especially if you're an NBA collector or an NBA fan.

I think it's undeniable that she's permeating and really, like, penetrating that space because, whether we like it or not, and I'm not a big NBA fan, but, like, we're losing LeBron James.

Right? We're gonna lose what is undeniably the best player in this generation from the stats and accolades.

And there's not really anybody stepping up into that. And I think that NBA fans or NFL fans or other sports leagues fans can see Asia Wilson and see that she's filling what they've been missing out on in the WNBA.

If they weren't paying attention before when there was a DT, when there was a Della Don, when there was a Parker, it is undeniable with the rise of social media and the, like I said, the penetration into other markets, not only sports markets, but nonsports markets, thinking of Asia Wilson's shoe deal, her cultural significance.

You cannot ignore her any longer. And if she wins another championship during an MVP season, it's going to she's going to be everywhere. It's going to be shoved down your throat, and it better be.

It better be because that's an insane resume with through only eight years of career. Because if it happened in another league, we would have been hearing about it two, three, four years ago already. I I don't disagree with you.

Are are do you think we're watching the beginning of a new chapter in hobby history where, like, based on the interest in the WNBA, a deep playoff run could plant the seeds for future collectors down the road.

Does this does this result need to be exclusive to Wilson holding up the trophy at the end or okay. No. I don't think so.

Like I said, I think those four main players that I talked about have a lot to benefit, but there's secondary players there where if if, say, somebody wins a game tying or game winning shot, or something like that, they really can win over the hearts and minds of that fandom.

And this is this is kind of queuing in the little essay that I wrote around Cook. Cook. Which is about this idea of a new era.

And I think my theory revolves around the idea that with the Caitlin Clark entrance to the league and the big rookie classes that draw a lot of media and financial attention, the cards that those people that entered the hobby in that space, these are the cards that are kind of building the foundation for nostalgia that they will have in five to ten years.

And and it's interesting because it's it's interesting to compare it to other lanes.

Say, Brett and I collected football cards or baseball cards or bass or men's basketball cards, at a younger age, and then we left the hobby and then we came back in.

Well, the nostalgia factor that we have is for those first cards that we saw that we associated with our our budding fandom.

And for the WNBA, the sheer masses that came in in, you could say 2020 with Sabrina, you could say Clark's year, Paige's year.

Those are going to be the cards that people look back on, in my opinion, and see as the foundation for their card collecting journey and their their nostalgia drive.

And I think that because of the sheer number of people that are entering, this could be the spot where those players really earn their spot in your PC.

So say Kelsey Mitchell, you know, for the fever, brings a championship home for the first time in forever.

I think that people are going to want to collect her more than ever before, And I think that goes for all four of the players and the secondary players, like I said.

And I think if there is a second another side to this coin, which is maybe you've been here.

Maybe you are a veteran in the WNBA hobby, and you've been collecting cards since the start of, the league, or maybe you started collecting when DT or Sue joined league.

Either way, you were ahead of the curve, and you're seeing this kind of blip. We're seeing, like, a big spike in attention.

You're gonna remember these years in these championship runs as being the kind of the formation of really the biggest attention hike in the league, and you're gonna you're gonna wanna remember that.

You're gonna want you're going to remember that just by the sheer amount of attention.

And I think that that surge is really that driving force that you mentioned for planting seeds down the road for collectors. Oh, I love this. So what do we what do you do if you are a collector who's been here for a while?

And if you're I I have never thought about it that way, but I I studied the way people behave in this this space, but outside of it, just collectors in general.

And I think what you said has a lot of validity. If you've been here, like, you got a case of cards and your collection is sick.

I'm just thinking there's a lot I don't wanna name any specific collectors. There's a lot of collectors out there. How do you wrestle with the, I gotta just I love these cards.

I gotta sit on it, but we're in this bull market and prices are high right now. Like, maybe I should get rid of it. Like, how do you wrestle with that if your theory of what's about to play out is true?

Keep sitting, baby. I would not move on from those cards at all, especially if you're sitting on, say, Asia Wilson or Nafisa Collier cards. I think we're like yeah. That that's just my opinion, though.

And I can't say what I would do because I I'm not in that position, but I do think it's an interesting kind of tension that long time collectors have to toggle between as this idea of maybe I got into these cards, relatively cheap compared to what they're worth now.

Is is their potential worth if I sold them, really what I like, is that worth it to me right now?

And I I don't know, Brett. I don't know if I wanna put myself in that position either because I think some of the cards would have to leave my collection, And that's interesting.

And I think also that those funds that you could sell cards that you've had for quite a while may be redirected into more of the ultra modern market, which would be, just an interesting kind of, like, outcome that I would not predict, but that I think it's possible and it and it's probably happening.

People are probably doing that right now, and it'll be interesting to see.

And and to kinda make it more tangible instead of speaking in the abstract, if you've got a bunch of fewer cards of folks from 2007 and 02/2017, and suddenly, Kelsey Mitchell is, you know, making a playoff push without your, star rookie or second year rookie.

I I I think you wanna validate that and purchase Kelsey Mitchell cards.

Right? And so it's just an interesting kind of situation to put yourself into, and I I'd be curious to hear from, collectors that have been here for a while how they're grappling with that kind of situation.

I wanna maybe we have said this. This has been maybe, like, one of the primary themes of season two. I feel like we say it in every episode.

But I wanna in the midst of this conversation, I wanna illuminate the fact that I hope that first, I hope that there are people who don't collect WNBA cards that listen to this show and that are trying to learn and educate.

I do. I hope that.

But I I wanna if you are a part of that crowd, I wanna illuminate something to you, and it's the the fact of the matter is is I can't go out right now and go buy the best Kelsey Mitchell collection in the world because the cards aren't available.

And so I think that presents an a that's that should be a signal to for everyone, especially if you're not it doesn't doesn't have to be Kelsey Mitchell.

It could be anybody. But that should be a signal for everyone that if you're holding these cards these cards aren't available.

Like, there's been so many times, Caitlin, where I have had had a moment where it's like, okay. I got some extra funds, and I wanna go spend a thousand bucks on WNBA cards right now.

Because I believe so much in this category, and then I'll go into what's available now. And it I it there for what I want or what I'm looking for, player sets what I I I can't spend the money.

And so that's something I think just in the spirit of all of our conversation, but this one specifically that should be spotlighted is, like, these cards are buried.

And they're once someone buys them, especially new products, when somebody buy like, usually, they stay in people's collections forever and you don't see them.

Yeah. And just one thing for for people that may be listening that aren't collecting WNBA with either no plans or some plans or they've got this whole detailed plan of collecting.

Just because you don't see the cards doesn't mean they don't exist. I think that that's a very easy thing to kind of, like, stumble down is, oh, I haven't seen, the best so and so player's card, so therefore it doesn't exist.

And I think or the sale doesn't exist, so therefore, it's not worth, a ton of money.

I think, like you said, they're just buried so deep. And when you do find them, those people probably bought them at a fraction of what they're worth, and there's no need to move on from them.

And if they will if they if they do, I found that, you know, there is a bit of a trial by fire to prove your fandom, so that they know it's going to somebody that would really appreciate it.

So it's it's an interesting situation. Yeah. I've been on the hunt for, you know, a couple feet, rookie cards forever. And when I do find them, it's yeah.

I'll let you know. I'll let you know when it's on sale. And I'm like, alright. I see you in twenty five years, but, like, alright. Message received. The notes for people. There's a lot of golden nuggets you're sharing there.

Unlike any other space, when anybody has ever approached me about a card that's WNBA card that's they see on my page or is in my collection, it's this is what I love about this community.

It's never like, I need this card. Can you sell me this card?

It's, like, three paragraphs on why this card is meant for them. And then at the end of it, it's just the kindest, like, if you would be if you would be willing to consider an offer, I'd be happy to give you one. And I'm just like Yeah.

And it's like, Chelsea Mitchell rescued my dog from a burning house for his help or something like that. You know? Like, yeah. The the stories and the connections to the players, run deep in the WNBA card collecting community.

It's something that I've really grown to appreciate and and that I see really it's a huge factor, especially when you're comparing it to to other leagues and other segments.

Yeah. Yes. Before we move off of this, is there anything that was left off of your essay that you wanna touch on?

No. Maybe I'll publish it. We'll see. We'll get it delivered, and you all know about it. Alright. That was fun. The there I saw something crazy on card letter, and and we've been doing this the one card that sold this week.

This is, like, the second episode in a row. This is, like, four cards that sold this week, but I wanna share them with you, and I wanna get your feedback.

So are are you ready for it? Alright. Right. Let me bring them up on the screen here. Okay. So topic of conversation, this the soup of the day, Asia Wilson, nonstop coverage here on the WNBA card podcast, topical.

Well, I noticed something as I was doing my weekly WNBA card data dig and card ladder. I noticed that there were four diff I had to, like, double take, and I was like, is this the same copy?

There were four different bin smashes of the 2018 Rittenhouse, Asia Wilson rookie card, PSA 10, that happened on September 21, which was when the news came out that Wilson was winning another MVP.

And so we had a copy sell. The the all of these sold, four sold on September 21. The first one for 35 3,599, and you've got a second. I'm on the Patreon.

I'm bringing all these up. You've got the second one for 3,499. Different seller, by the way. The next one, 3,299. And then the next one was $32. 49 99. I mean, what's going on here, Kaye? I love this. I hope this is the same buyer.

It has to be. Right? It absolutely like, in my mind, it has to be. And to them, I say, I tip my cap to you. This is such a play. I think that these this card in particular is extremely undervalued, especially in a PSA 10.

Pop 69. Pop 69. Nice. Yeah. Just like a sweet card that I think even even before the fourth MVP announcement was undervalued. And then to just be like, you know what?

This is the push I needed to to make this purchase and kind of buy up, the ones that were available. If this isn't the same person, I wonder if all of them had the same if it if it was because of the MVP announcement or not.

I would love to know who these people are that are buying them, and I wanna hear, their rationale as to why. Because of BINSMASH, on the four of the same cards in the same day on the MVP investment is just incredible.

I love it. And and, like, third 32 to $3,500 is no chump change for WNBA cards. So For anything. Like, yeah, you're spending 12 k, more than 12 k on four copies of the same card. That takes a special kinda individual right there.

So I respect this so much. I think it's awesome. Hopefully, we'll see him on our feed soon. But, yeah, I I love this spread. I love it. Final nugget on this is that this these four sold moments after each other.

This is the first time a copy of this card has sold since 10/10/2024. So almost a year went by that none of these sold, and then four sold Where did it sell for on October? It sold for $3,150.

So all these were slightly above that, but not by a dramatic amount. Okay. So this this individual or individuals, they knew when to strike, when to Yes. Because that seems like a steal and a deal if I've ever seen one.

A steal and a deal. Yeah. I don't know if this is there's in this bull market, I've been watching different categories and indicators of things that are happening, and they set, like, those categories up for new new tiers and new paths.

And I'm wondering if this ridiculous activity of four bin smashes on this card might be doing that for Asia Wilson's cards.

Only time will tell, but that's a story I feel like we had to tell. Yeah. And we've been covering, copies of that card in the platinum medallion throughout the season.

And it as I look back, it makes the platinum medallion buyer look smart once again. Once again, outsmarting us all with their wallets. Yeah. I'm just impressed by the market activity here. This is what I've learned, Caitlin.

It's when you've got a player, rookie player like Wilson, a rookie, and you've got stuff sitting out there, usually those that are willing to take the risk on it are rewarded because people look at sales like that and like, shit, I should be doing this.

You know? Yeah. If I had the cap, I I would be deploying capital growth so fast. For anybody that knows, they know that's David and well well played. Alright. Let's let's move forward. Okay. Let's move forward.

Unfortunately, I don't think either of us have pickups to report unless Brett maybe have a surprise when no. We will not. I've I've got some I've got a return coming, I think, soon from PS. Can you imagine if I just it was like, yeah.

I bought all four of those, AJ Wilson. No. I don't have any. Maybe next week. We'll see. We'll see. Alright. Let's move on to collector spotlight of the week for the season finale of season two.

We are highlighting somebody that I an account that I think Brett will really appreciate at Almanac. Am I saying that correctly? Almanac sports cards on Instagram.

Almanac. Almanac. Oh, sorry. Oh, that was bad, guys. We need where's the pack? He needs to edit that out. Okay. His bio, is Indianapolis, Indiana based collector of Tamika Catchings, Katie Douglas, Graham Rahal.

Shaquille O'Neal. Rahal. It's an indie thing. Okay. Shaquille O'Neal, Colts, Pacers, Twins in Black. What is it? What's the last one? Blackhawks? Collector also of Shaquille O'Neal, Colts, Pacers, Twins, and Blackhawks.

So first of all, just love putting, what you're collecting out there. First thing I saw on the page, which I love, just how dedicated this person is. And I I noticed a pattern of groupings on their Instagram page.

I see animal print prisms. I see Tamika Catchings draft selection signatures rainbow from prism. I see a hoarding of Tamika Catchings and, Katie Douglas cherry blossom prisms out of 20 in tie dye selects. This account is incredible.

Keep all I have to say is keep posting. I love seeing, patterns emerge, groupings of cards, and dedicated collectors posting what they've got. So keep it coming. And if you guys haven't checked this page out, definitely worth a follow.

The this is the page, and I've had many conversations, but this is a reason why I I don't go pursue, a big Tamika Catchings PC because they're all in one collection, which I could respect, especially from someone living in my city.

Tamika Catchings is an absolute legend, so I love to see that those cards are somewhere where they're being appreciated.

Absolutely. Well, let's round out today's conversation with collector mailbag. We've got three questions posed from three different listeners, Brett.

I'm excited to get into it. Are you ready to be hit by the first one? I'm ready to go. Okay. The first one is coming from at the rookie's corner. The w has always been known for its talented and diverse athletes.

But as the league grows, how do you think the way we define greatness in women's basketball may might shift? Are there qualities or characteristics in players today that could redefine what it means to be a WNBA legend in the future?

I feel like greatness is ever evolving and and open to interpretation, leaving room for discussion and accounting for both on court skills and off court influence.

Lot there to unpack, Brett. I think the question we're trying to answer is around defining greatness.

What are your thoughts? I think this is a great question. It's almost like they knew what we are going to be talking about in this episode. I I mean, I think when I think of greatness right now in the WNBA, I think of Asia Wilson.

Like, that's the first name that comes to my mind because of the accolades, because of the championships, because of the cultural impact. It is not freaking easy to to do what she's doing.

And, yeah. So I think that I think winning matters. I think it it will always matter. And then I think what's trending is the rise of social media, the players, being vocal on having their own podcast, that helps elevate status.

But, yeah, I think winning matters most, but there's these other dynamics that haven't been in place when, Sue Bird and Diana Taurasi or Candace Parker, when those, landed on when those players were coming up that now some of these players that are on the cusp of greatness can grab a hold of some of these things that weren't in place.

Like, the fever, talk about facilities, literally bulldozed this entire prison.

I drive by it every day after I drop off my kids. They're building a state of the art facility for the fever, which is going to be a magnet for, hopefully, good players who wanna come play here.

But in that space, they have they're building out dedicated podcast studios for the players for the players to do their podcast while they're at work.

And I that, to me, I I heard that, and as someone who's building a career on the back of podcasting, I'm like, that is that is where we're going.

And so I I think those things are are so cool, and I'm like, I look at a player that I feel like is on the cusp of being considered a great player, and that's Aliyah Boston.

And she has talked about, pursuing a career in media after the fact, and she's got her own podcast. And she's incredible in front of a camera and a microphone. I just think about that. I'm just like, keep cooking.

Keep keep keep be getting in the lab. Keep doing your thing. Like, post moves on the court, on the podcast, like, keep doing it because, like, a player like that, I think, is, like, a rising star and potentially could be great.

But, again, I think you need to win those championships in order to be classified in that category. I completely agree, and I don't want it to be too much of an echo chamber because I agree completely with you what you said.

But I'll just say this, those podcast studios that you know, how business schools sell the rights to the namings of the classrooms.

I feel like there needs to be a stacking slab podcast studio sponsored in there. That's right. That's the end game here. Uh-huh. I love it. Hey. You you can be my hype woman, and let's let's get it done.

And maybe we'll get some get some seats, and whenever the links are in town, we can sit on the floor. We'll we'll work on it. Guys, you gotta help us out here. Help us work with that.

Okay. Question two from our friend, m j s underscore sports cards. You're going on a trip to somewhere with no social media card websites or card shops, but you can bring one card along with you. What are you taking and why?

You go first. Okay. Let me just say I have a trip coming up. So the fact that Mark asked this question was kind of crazy, but I will be traveling to New Mexico in the near future, which I'm very excited about.

And this isn't a WMBA card, so I'm kind of cheating. But I'm gonna be bringing some breaking bad cards with me, particularly the storyboard relic that they used as a cue card for production in New Mexico.

But my point in bringing up this card, even though it's not a WMEA card, is that bringing connections to the places that you're visiting, whether that be players or actors or whatever segment you're in, can be really fun, and it can be a different way to kind of interact with your PC.

I think that sometimes we get a little caught up in keeping things super organized in a binder or a case in a dark closet somewhere, and we don't check on it.

We don't play with our cards. And by taking it with you on, say, this hypothetical of a trip, I think it really immerses you and reminds you of when you were maybe a kid and and laid out all the cards on on the floor or whatever.

I just think it can be a fun way to exercise that.

This is a very challenging question. I my mind goes towards something not very valuable because I tend to lose things very easily, but also nostalgic. And I'm just gonna throw this out there.

When I think about getting into cards as a kid, and, yes, I'm gonna date myself very much so, I think of ninety ninety one ninety two collector's choice, and Larry Johnson was the rookie of that set.

And he's got this photo in his card, and he's just like he's got, like, a headset over his head.

It's like draft night. And whenever I think whenever I, like, need the pick me up, I just, like, look at that card and just remember all the packs that I ripped, to get that card.

So, yeah, maybe a maybe a grandma ma card, like, in my backpack that I can just pull out and look at for some inspiration.

Wow. Well, for the listeners that had that name on your checklist as well as breaking bad on the WMA yes. You win, meaning nobody, because nobody thought those were gonna be the answers.

But I really like that question. It's also getting me excited for my trip. So thanks, Mark. Okay. We're gonna round it out here with our final third and final question from at cornerstone underscore cards.

I was thinking about this a while listening to you a few weeks ago. First of all, shout out to you for listening to the episodes.

I'm not really a big Chronicle fan. Hobby isn't terrible. But with so few WNBA products available, what better way to allow collectors to have a chance to pull their favorite top vets and their favorite rookies?

So my favorite so my question for you, if you were putting together a WNBA chronicle set and you needed low end sets, mid end sets, and high end sets to round out the complete chronicles set, which brands would you choose and why?

And, Brett, I don't wanna just, like, choose for the sake of choosing.

So maybe, we'll each pick one in each of those category, one low, one mid, and one high. And I'll I'll knock it over to you because I wanna hear what you have to say.

Okay. I gotta first address the fact that Chronicles isn't necessarily this is hard for me because my my default would be I want these cards as these products as standalones.

I don't want them in Chronicles, but because I'm having to suspend my imagination a little bit and I get the intention behind the question, I'll play.

So the first card or low end is a product that Panini put out across several different sports, not in WNBA, but I absolutely love it, and that is totally certified.

I think totally certified is my low end. And the reason why I like it is because the the parallels, you've got platinum mirrors, and they have this glow about them that no other cards have.

And as a shiny card fan, it's like paper based, but you've got this glow effect, which is amazing.

And those cards also have, like, etching. And I feel I'm scared that when, hopefully, Panini doesn't lose the WNBA license, but when their Panini cards aren't being made at the clip that we're gonna lose etching.

And I love etching on cards. I think it it's it builds character. So I like, when I think about across all sports, basketball, football, hopefully someday in WNBA, like, what is one of my what is my one of my favorite products?

Obviously, Prism would be, like, my number one, but, like, totally certified just kicks ass. So it's not too far behind.

So I I say that to say totally certified, but I I would much rather have totally certified as a standalone set. But Yeah. Absolutely. We're doing a little bit of tweaking here to get fit into the prompt. What about you? Okay.

The fact that you said that is kind of irritating because I had it also on my list of things. I'll I'll go kind of I'll I'll I'll twist the rules a bit here and say, my pick in lieu of you picking totally certified would be Topps Mayo.

Now I know. I know. That's, like, one, incredibly obscure. Two, not a WNBA product. Three, not a Panini product, but I don't really care.

I'm gonna say it anyway. I think we need some paper based cards back in our lives. I love paper based cards, and Topps Mayo had a kind of, like, distinct look to it that I remember. There was very good framing.

It had a lot of high contrast, dark photos, and I really liked it. So my low end set would be Tops Mayo, despite the fact that that completely erodes, the Panini chronicles of it all, that's what I would choose.

That would be something if that made its way into chronicle. Yeah. Let us see what they would do. It's just throwing some random made up stuff. Maybe one.

You I'll let you go first on the mid so I don't pick yours. It's so tough to say, Brett. I I keep going off into paper based cards, and I would love to see and I know we're getting it as a standalone product, but it hasn't coming out.

In in past years, it didn't exist. I would say DonRUS would be my choice, and it would have to have the optic inserts as well in it. That's what I would choose.

I think it's a perfect mid end product despite its pricing that we're seeing it, market that right now. If we could go back, especially through the past couple years, I would go with Don Russ when it didn't exist.

That would be really good. I like it. My decision is which I love, this product, and I feel like this product doesn't get enough love, but I'm gonna say Spectra.

I love a Spectra card. I'm a big Spectra football guy. It's like a sneaky hidden product that I collect, but, you know, I'm a shiny card fan. These cards rule, so I'd love to see WNBA Spectra someday. That's something.

Not my favorite set personally, Brett, so it's it's interesting to see our differences. But some I love the, chunkiness of the cards. They're usually really thick, and very shiny, so I I completely understand the appeal.

Okay. Going to high end sets, I'll let you go first because I have a feeling I know what you're gonna pick. Why don't so I'll tell you that this is the I'm the least excited about the high end sets, to be honest with you.

Yeah. I I, yeah, I don't know why. Maybe unless I totally missed something, but I honestly didn't have a great answer for this. Okay. I thought you were gonna say flawless.

I I have two written down. It was flawless and immaculate. We're about to win. I yeah. I just I think I have more energy for the bid and low end. I don't know what that says about me. I love that. I I feel the same way as well.

I think that I would have said flawless. And if we're allowed to twist between manufacturers, I would love to see exclusive. I think that, like, that brand, which is currently, I think, Goodwin somehow intertwined with that.

Yes. I think that that would be super fun. Just very, like, just a strong legacy and strong following and not much adoption into the women's basketball community. That would be fun to see for me.

How about how about a totally unrelated, but I would love to get your perspective because I'm like, now we're having this conversation mashing up your worlds of collecting. Yeah. What do you think about a licensed WNBA Allen and Ginter?

Yes. I knew you were gonna say it. Okay. So that would be, like, the ultimate. I would be buying up so many boxes of that to rip. My dream is that one day, Ginter gets those licensed w cards in there.

Because there are some women's basketball cards in there, but they're usually, like, airbrushed or, just not the most flattering photos. That would be kind of my perfect storm mix of a car.

If I could design a card, it would be an Nafisa Collier, Allen and Ginter auto on card auto card framed. That would be beautiful. Shout out Cornerstone Cards for letting us, stretch our imagination for a little bit.

Absolutely. And shout out to all of you for participating throughout season two, sending in your mailbag questions. We really appreciate it. It's a fun way to interact with you all, and I I can't believe it, Brett.

We're we're done with season two. This is it. Bonus episode on the other side. Thank you everyone for listening and supporting WNBA card podcast. See you guys later. Go.