Welcome back, loyal listeners of the Stacking Slabs podcast, to episode three of season two of the WMBA card podcast.

My name is Katelyn. I go by at cold lunch cards on the Instagram machine and everywhere else on the Internet, and I'm joined by my amazing cohost, Brett McGrath at stacking slabs.

Brett, how are you doing today? I'm well. And you know what? I can't wait to get into this episode and get hear all the stories from you about all star in Indianapolis.

And I don't know. I think it was Angel Reese who tweeted about, Indy being turned into Miami, and it sounds like you might have hit some of that, after effect in just terms of how much fun you had in my city.

So I'm doing well, but I just can't wait to hear about all the stories you have. I'm so excited to tell them. That's definitely the main point of today's pod is talking about all star game.

We'll obviously get into the cards of it all too for you guys. But before we jump into it because I've got a lot to talk about, let's start by just talking about our sponsor that we introduced already.

Our new sponsor is Great Lakes Trading Co, a local hobby shop to me in Saint Paul, Minnesota. And each week, I just kinda wanna highlight something special going on over at Great Lakes Trading Co.

So this week, I'm highlighting an offer or promotion that they have all day every day or every day every week, and that is their happy hour deal.

So if you go into the shop between two and four, all their value boxes are half price stickers, including the WNBA value box.

So just wanted to shout out that little promotion that they do. It's something fun. Get folks in there, during the day.

And, hopefully, you guys, if you're able to stop in, can take advantage of that great deal. So shout out to Great Lakes Trading Co for, sponsoring us for season two. Shout out Great Lakes Trading Co. Alright. Let's tip this thing off.

Let's start with all star weekend, Brett. I wanna start with you because I I could think I could just go on and on Yeah. For hours and hours with stories, but let's let's start with the local, the indie local Brett McGrath.

You know, I I talked a lot about just, the the city being decorated and outfitted for the w universe to enter, and I was just so excited about the presentation, how it looked.

And, you know, I've got kids. So for me, it was trying to figure out what I could get involved with, what I was gonna be able to do.

And luckily, on my wife and I were trying to decide, like, we wanna take the kids to, WNBA live. I wanted to see it. And Friday after work, my youngest woke up from the nap, and we while she was napping, we're like, alright.

Now's the time. So we bought tickets. They're, like, $28 a piece. Kids got in free. And this is what I'll I'll I'll start with this. The NBA all star game was in Indy two years ago, I think.

I went to their version of live. And I first thing I said, like, being there for fifteen minutes, I leaned over to my wife, and I go, this is so much better than the all star activation.

The way the brands were presented, just the way it was all lay laid out, it was so much more welcoming.

It was so much more inviting. Inviting, just it felt more clean, everything about it. So, like, that was the first, my first impression. Literally, right when we walked in, you know, my kids are going crazy. They wanna see everything.

They wanna get involved in all the kids' stuff. And, my wife taps me my shoulder. She goes, look. She goes, that's Paige. Right? And I literally, like, look over my my shoulder, and Paige Beckers is, like, right next to me.

Branded not next like, we're not brushing shoulders because she's got security detail around her. But, like, right when I walked in, Paige Becker's, and she's walking over to the Panini, activation to sign autographs.

And I'm just like, this is what we're starting with? And as I walk, take another step, like Gabby Williams is doing an interview.

And I'll tell you, like, I was really starstruck when we were leaving and walk like, standing on the edge of the Panini activation was just Stewie. And I was just like, holy shit.

So it was, like, so cool. I was, like, blown away. I wasn't expecting to have, like, that sort of experience where literally these players who I watch every night buy their cards are standing right next to me.

And so I thought that was was so cool. Also, just like, I bought some gear. Like, I was so caught up. I bought a Leah Boston all star shirt, which they were sick.

And then, there's another brand I bought a shirt from that was just so cool. But I could have spent if I didn't have my kids there, just at that event alone, I could have spent just, like, so much money and so much time.

It was just incredible. And so it was just fun. It was like everyone had their kids. There was you know, it was very diverse, lot of different people, lot of different backgrounds.

Everyone was having fun. And I didn't go to the games or any of the events, but, I just had a great time just in that, like, you know, two hour span I was there. That's that's awesome to hear.

I'll say this. Like, my I went back to work on Monday, and my boss was like, so how was it? I was like, to be honest, it was the most fun I've had in a long time. And I I had high expectations. You know, I love the WNBA.

We have a podcast about the WNBA for god's sake. Like, you better like it. And I really do, but this, like, got me so up close and personal with not only the players, but the brand and the people behind it that it was just so exciting.

And I've got so many stories I wanna touch on, Brett. Get into it. Just Maybe let's go, like, maybe let's go, like, chronologically, like, through the weekend because they're that'll at least keep me on track.

Let's start with Thursday. So we we flew out early Thursday morning, and we get to MSP, Minneapolis, Saint Paul Airport.

And we get through security. Everything's going well. And I sit at my gate, and out comes Courtney Williams' dad, and he's on our flight. I'm like, no way.

This is how the weekend starts. You know, Court's dad just sitting next to me in the gate. So that was like just a great start to the weekend because I was like, oh, we're already checking things off the list. You know what I mean?

I'm kind of, I'm like, it was interesting. I didn't say say hi or engage with him at all, but I think he saw me looking at him. I didn't wanna bug him, although I'm sure he would have been okay with the attention looking back now.

But that is just a good way to kick it off. So, yeah, we fly with Courtney Williams' dad. He's making TikToks on the plane. Like, looking back, I'm like, this guy I should have said hi to this guy.

Anyways, we land in Indy. We get out, and you get through. And in Indy, they've got this whole full size basketball court set up in the airport with WNBA all star gear or, like, set up everywhere.

And I see fee and Clark on the same, like, pool. I was like, I'm hyped up. Like, they know what they're doing, and everybody there is just so excited.

They're passing out, like, flyers about what to do this weekend since it's the start of the weekend. There's people standing by the court with posters saying, like, welcome to Indy. Welcome to Basketball Country.

When we got when the plane landed, the flight attendant was like, we're in Basketball Country now. And I was like, damn right we are. Yeah. Right. So, like, just Thursday was such a great vibe for getting there.

We didn't do too much, like, WNBA focused stuff on Thursday, but we went shopping as one does. It felt like every store was kind of, like, preparing for this influx of tourism and people.

It seemed like there was basketballs everywhere or basketball deals, at different stores even if it wasn't like a sporting goods store. So Thursday was chill, an intro to indie.

I like your city bread. That's what I thought when I first got there, and it was fun. Okay. We get to we get to Friday. So Friday night is the con the skills contest and the three points contest.

But before we get there, I did some indie things. I went to a museum, which is super fun, and my favorite indie based author, Kurt Vonnegut. They had a deal going where you got percentage off the merch.

If you made a basketball shot, you guys know I hit that shit immediately. I was like, give that to me. I also left a note on the typewriter declaring Nafisa Collier is the best best basketball player in the world.

The fever fan at the desk did not appreciate that. They said it was not going on their social media, but they thanked me for coming.

Outside of the museum, we started to walk around, saw some murals, the catchings, the Tamika Catchings mural, the, obviously, the huge Caitlin Clark, JW Marriott got to go see that.

I I knew it was big, but, Brett, you didn't tell me how big it was.

That's It's the biggest one they've ever done. It's crazy. It's crazy. I was like, wow. Okay. She runs this town. We saw that. We saw the Asia Wilson and Sabrina Unesqui ones outside of Gamebridge, which was super fun.

And speaking of outside of Gamebridge, before the contests, we went out there and they've got such a nice experience where if you have a ticket to the event or the game, you can get down there.

They've got, you know, free water and snacks and a whole basketball hoop that kids were shooting on, photo opportunities, that kind of stuff.

So super good time before the game. Okay. Now let's talk about the skills contest and the three point challenge. Brett, I texted you immediately when I got there because I was like, wait.

My tickets say 67 club on them. And I was like, what's sixty seven club? And we get up to the the concourse, and we're going to sit down on our seats and suddenly, like, there's two people, like security guards.

They're like, you need your wristbands. I'm like, wristbands? What are we doing here? You get let me down there.

And it turns out we're in an all inclusive club, with all the players, partners, wives, and husbands, and families, where you get unlimited food and drinks. So, you know, I had to take advantage of that, but it was so interesting.

You know, you go down there and it's Sabrina's husband, it's Stewie's wife, it's Britney Sykes' partner. Like, all these people are just standing there next to you, and I'm fan girling, like, about their literal partners.

So to be that close to it was was just awesome. Couple questions. Number one, like, you gotta give me your opinion of of Cambridge, like, inside, like, what like, watching it, like, talk about, I I the field house.

What what are your thoughts? Yeah. So I've never been to India. I've never been to Cambridge, and I loved it. I thought the entire stadium was super neat. I think the club experience really enhanced it for me.

For some perspective for folks, I was 15 rows up for night one. It felt like I was literally next to the players. And when you're sitting next to the players' family members, you gotta, like, really keep it reined in too.

So it was super fun to be there, and the way that it was set up and Cambridge was set up was just beautiful for watching basketball even if it wasn't a full game for that night.

I really appreciated the way basketball even if it wasn't a full game for that night.

I really appreciated the way that everything was lit. I know that's, like, kind of a, I don't know, nerdy thing to recognize, but it was just like the whole shebang.

It felt like they were going all out. And it didn't seem like there was a bad seat in the house is what I noticed about about Cambridge because, obviously, it was built for the game of basketball.

Yeah. That's awesome. And then, you you mentioned Britney Sykes, and I can't, like, let you mention her without. I just can't ever I'll just forever think about her dancing with the dancers now.

That was iconic. Yeah. For people that didn't see it, there was, like, a halftime show, and she somehow knew the choreography. Yeah. I was like, what? They shoulda had her in there.

I was my prediction was for the halftime show that they were gonna have the stud buds up there. But it didn't happen, but I was like, oh, that would have been such a good place for them. But Britney Sykes, she got it pretty good.

Okay. So three point contest and the skills contest. We're not gonna talk about who won those. The Liberty players swept. Good for them. Natasha Cloud had a great moment with Izzy Harrison, her girlfriend.

I thought that was pretty cool to see in person. It was just neat. It was fun to watch, but it was quite short. I'll say that. Like, in person, you're like, can we just keep these things going and going and going?

And so to take advantage of that, we stayed a little bit after the game. And since we're in the 67 club, you can get really close to the court. And we're standing right at the edge, so you you just lean over and ask the court.

And, we're just, you know, watching all the players are getting together, taking their pictures. Shout out Rakia Jackson for putting me in the back of her photo on Instagram. I made it Crazy, by the way.

That's nuts. I was like, oh, that's me when I saw that. But we're standing there. I didn't bring anything to get signed or anything like that, but I just wanted to see, like, you know, are any players gonna come over and say hi?

And Erica Wheeler, shout out Erica Wheeler, came over, now plays for the storm, but used to play for the fever.

Obviously, a fan favorite from what was going on. She came over, take a took a photo with all of us, was super nice, and gained a new fan in me.

So that was a cool experience. And then we had, Madison Booker, who's not in the WNBA yet projected, I think right now top five pick in upcoming class of some kind.

I don't know how many years of eligibility she she has left. But, we spotted her, and we're like, book.

Book. And she's like, wait. Me? You want you guys want me to come over there? And I'm like, yeah. You? Like, what do you mean me? And she came over. She was super humble. She was like, I didn't think anybody was gonna know who I was.

I was like, girl, I'm collecting your cards. Like, I know who you are. And she took a photo and that really, like, just was another moment. And then the final, player interaction we had was with Ryan Howard who denied the photo request.

No no hard feelings, Ryan. I get it. But she talked to us, which was super cool. And just to be that close to the players, was super neat, and that was the highlight, I suppose, of, night one.

If you were to tell me that Ryan Howard said, yeah. Okay. Let's take a picture. Then my whole perception of her would be totally too cool for that. She can't be doing that. Exactly. So that's on brand, and I'm glad you shared that.

Yeah. It was fun, and they don't owe us anything. So even just acknowledge our presence was was pretty neat. Okay. Let's get into let's get into Saturday. Okay. So Brett went to WNBA live on Friday night.

I didn't make it to that, but I went on Saturday afternoon ish. And I had a similar experience, Brett, to when you first walk in and suddenly Paige Beckers is there, except it was AJ Wilson in Bam. I looked over.

I was like, that's AJ Wilson. That's AJ Wilson. And I was starstruck. I couldn't contain myself. I was like, oh my god. Like and those two are, like, a head taller than every single person in there, including other players.

And they had this, like, I don't know, amoeba of security following them, but nobody was really irritating them. But that was just a moment because I was like, oh, we're in the presence of AJ Wilson.

Like, I feel like we all need to be silent. Like, let me Isn't it weird? Like, you it's this feeling we have when you know, like, you're in the presence of greatness.

It it's how I felt when I saw Stewie. It's, like, it's a little different because you it sounds like you had so many interactions with so many different players, like but it what I don't know.

Why do you think that is? Like, that it just feels a little different with and the magnitude's a little different with a player like AJ Wilson.

Right. It's just the aura. It's just radiating. Like, I I don't even know how to explain it. She just looked like a professional in all aspects of the word. I was like, she's doing her job.

I will let her be, but she's doing a good job at it. You know what I mean? So it was so as a fan to be that close, you don't even get that close when you're at a game. So, like, to see that was super neat.

We had a similar right as we were done talk or not talking, but seeing AJ, talking about AJ. We went into the play of society booth, and we come to walk out, and suddenly all these people are looking at me.

No. They're not looking at me. I'm like, wait. Why are you guys all looking at me? Boom. Right next to me. Literally, next to the shoulder, Sabrina. I was like, woah.

I don't know if she wants to get that close to us right now. Get the hater alert? Well, I was like, everybody needs to relax right now. It was funny, though. It was cool to see them that close, and Sabrina is obviously an icon.

So, like, to see her up close and personal was was super neat. And then the the final two players that I kinda got to, quote, unquote, interact with were Juju Watkins, who had an appearance at the State Farm booth.

Just seeing her was crazy. I was like, that's the future of the league right there. And she knows it. She carries herself like it, which is cool.

And then finally, I went to the Dick's Sporting Good booth, which is a little bit smaller, more intimate setting than some of the bigger booths and listened to a panel with, Djanay Carrington and the CEO, Esther Wallace, of, Playa Society.

And the panel was about fashion basketball. Just like a quick fifteen, twenty minute discussion about fashion and expressing yourself in the league.

Just thought that was awesome. You know, like, five people away from Dijanae Carrington, another person, like, I don't deserve to breathe your air. Like, excuse me.

Like, thank you. But at WNBA Live in general, it was just such a good, well executed, fan activation that I felt like I was valued as a fan, that they wanted me there, and the players wanted to be there and recognize us.

So that was just super fun. You know, I love to hear that, and I was just looking over, and I'll put this up. This brand here, Meeley?

Meeley? Yeah. Sure. But they did a little cute thing. My kids loved it. They they got their picture taken, and we gotta be a part of it. So, you know, usually with this stuff, it's, like, all gimmicks, but I don't know.

It felt like the brands were, like, super well integrated with what was happening with the players and it just felt very welcoming and non sales y, which I appreciated.

I appreciated that too. And it wasn't too much, like, selling happening.

It didn't feel like there were things available for sale, but it was more about how can we get fans close to players, which was why I was there. So super fun. We spent a couple hours there.

And after we finished up with WNBA live, you know, I had to go over to my goats HQ to unrivaled. We caught the tail end of the stud buds appearance, there where few and Courtney Williams and Leticia Heidemann was speaking.

They had a whole fan club of people following them around all weekend, so to even get a glimpse was nice. Unrivaled HQ had a much different feel than WNBA live. It was in, like, a more of like a club setting.

Like, it looked like a bar. Like, usually, we'd go, like, into a nightclub. They had a whole DJ set up. There was a court. You could take photos with, jerseys, and they had really good merch and stickers that they gave away.

And it was just a different feeling, but super fun. Obviously, I wanted to go because it's in a piece of Collier's league, so I had to support her.

But to see stud buds was also like this whole situation all weekend. So that was a fun little excursion before the night. I've really concluded with the game.

Incredible. Stud buds, I'll just say this as a content individual who lives and breathes content every day. I mean, just incredible work there by Nitesh Heidemann and Courtney Williams. They've obviously gained a ton of popularity.

I'd love to see their social media, like, following increase post all star weekend. But just I love it when individuals, like, see an opportunity and commit to it and then execute it flawlessly. It was, humanizing.

It was funny. It was embarrassing. It it was all the things mixed up together, and it's like, I just wanna put it I just wanna stream and just put it in the corner of my office and just tune in and watch it all day because Literally.

It was a it was an incredible way to cover the the craziness of all star weekend in Indianapolis. And it sounds like they had some fans of their own with Caitlin Clark who claimed for, like, three plus hours before she showed up.

So it definitely caught the attention of fans and players alike as well as league leadership, which I think is super important.

They had Kathy, the commish, dancing at the club on camera. Like, what other league is giving you this kind of entertainment? The answer is done. No.

And and, on the Caitlin Clark front, that clip where she admitted to been watching it for three hours, like, I just, like, had this moment watching that interaction, and I don't know, their opinion of Clark and it like, you know, Herb being in the league and what it mean.

I I don't know. But, like, I to me, I watched that, and I was just like it was I I felt like they were like it was, like, in their minds, it was like, okay.

She is one of us. Like, you know what I mean? Where she's, like, not this, like, on an like, completely another level than everyone else. She loves the game, and she loves the interaction and the fun.

And that moment, I thought, was really cool. That was good. And the the other part where they couldn't get into the club at one point, and they're like, call Caitlin. Get her out here. They'll let us in.

They'll open it back up if she's here. I was like, this is solidarity between the players right now. I just loved every moment of that. What I wasn't expecting was just how turned up everyone, even, like, players involved.

Granted, like, Clark, you know, has you know, she was people were drinking. People were having fun. I was like, this is fun. Like, this is, like regardless of what happens on the floor, like, this is this is exciting.

Yeah. It was exciting. I thought it was funny the night before Aliyah Boston taking the drink out of Caitlin Clark's hand. So she wouldn't go too overboard.

I was like, that's a good teammate. Right? Yeah. But that whole stream, it just brought a new layer to WNBA, all star weekend. You felt even if you weren't there, you felt like you were seeing everything that was going on.

I will say if I wasn't there, I would have the biggest case of FOMO ever. So I was glad I got to experience it firsthand. But even seeing some of these after parties that the players were throwing, I was like, wow.

They really did make Indiana like a Miami that weekend, which was super fun. But, anyways, the game. So after all this WNBA live, whatever, unrivaled HQ, we're walking to Gamebridge.

We're walking to Grainbridge, and we're about one block away, and there's this nice steakhouse. I don't know what it's called. It's like a block away from Gamebridge. And I look over because there's, you know, tall windows.

And sitting right there, Steph White and Lisa Salter's having dinner. I was like, wait. What? It's like every corner you turn, there was somebody that I see on TV, and I'm like, they're a big deal.

And they're just sitting here eating, I'm assuming, dinner together. They're getting the waiters asking for their autograph on a ball. I'm, like, trying not to stare.

I'm like, oh my god. It's them. Like, the icons. That's amazing. Everyone always talks Saint Elmo. Saint Elmo is amazing. You're referring to Prime 47. Prime 47 is unreal. I love it. So right on the corner.

Great spot. Yeah. So that was our intro. I was like, step by good thing you're not coaching. You're gonna be late otherwise to the game, which I think she was a little bit. That's why. Anyways, we get to the game.

We're 13 rows up. The game was awesome. It would be dumb of me right now, not to mention what happened pregame where the players took off their warm up, jackets and were wearing the pay us what you owe us shirts.

I was a part of the chant cheering for peep the to pay them. It was an awesome display of action and solidarity, during CBA negotiations as we all know.

And it was just a cool moment to say that I was able to support them with my voice. So the game was not only fun, but I think it went to the greater good of the league as well.

Wow. I you know, I've lived here I've lived here my whole life, and I'm not sure I could've got in as much as you did in the weekend. I'm glad it sounds as successful as it was. My goodness, Caitlin. Yeah. Let's run it back next year.

Currently, it's in Vegas, so it should be Oh, gosh. Even more about fall. Yeah. It probably a little more expensive. And however you feel now, I'm guessing you'd probably that would linger probably for an extra two or three weeks.

Yeah. Definitely. I'll say this. One thing I really loved about Indy, underrated if you guys are visiting. The Ubers were so cheap.

I felt like I could go all across the city every day and not feel guilty about it. So, like, it was a great destination from both an affordability, but also the experience, standpoint. Love to hear that you had such a nice time.

Anything else you wanna mention about your wild and wacky all star weekend in Indianapolis? Let's just say this. If if at any point I thought I was a casual WNBA fan, that notion is out the window.

I am a superfan, and I'm proud. We need a super fan to steer this ship, Caitlin. I'm glad you came to that realization. Now let's talk about what we're really excited about, Brett. Let's talk about the cards.

Let's talk about the cards. So, in the spirit of trying to find fun and interesting threads to pull on, found did a little exercise in card ladder. Shout out card ladder, the official data provider of the WNBA card podcast.

What I wanted to do was look year over year and look at a dataset. And so I pulled, a segment of WNBA cards, and I I filtered it by a thousand dollar sales or more.

The first dataset is 05/01/2024 through 07/31/2024. The second dataset is 05/01/2025 to 07/17/2025, at the time of the recording. That's or when I did this exercise, that's what it was.

So not a full month. I removed Caitlin Clark from the mix, based on her outlier nature and would skew the data quite a bit. But wanted to present kinda some interesting, information that I found.

So let's dive into and a lot of these, like, I'm not gonna spend a lot of time talking about cards specifically, but because we we've talked about them, but, I will talk about some of these sales if I can find the button here.

StreamYard does a good job of just always moving around stuff on me, but we're here.

So You figured it out. You got it. I did. In 2024, a thousand dollars or more in that May 1 to July 31 set, there were 57 total sales of a thousand dollars or more. So you the you've got I'm just gonna hit three of these.

5,500, the Solea Boston Gold Vinyl rookie. You've got 4,300, which is the o two Sue Bird PSA 10. And then you've got this 2016 Rittenhouse Stewie, PSA 10 that's sold for $3,700 So $5,500 last year was the high watermark.

Now if we move over to 2025 data, and remember, it's not there's less time in this dataset, moved from 57 sales, a a thousand or more, to a 192 sales, a thousand or more.

And let me remind you, Caitlin Clark is not in this dataset. So we move over, and we've got this water Paige Beckers that we talked about last week, for 10 k.

So the high high mark was the the Boston last year at 55. This page is the high card at 10 k. You've got the, rookie royalty Angel Reese contender ticket one of one for 8,500.

And you've got another card we talked about last week, which is the Angel Reese select black finite concourse PSA nine for 7,300. So this is just the start of this discussion, Caitlin, the presentation of the data.

Any initial reactions just based on that? Initial reaction is this is good news. This is really good news to see this increase in volume and diversification of players, I'm assuming, within the sales as well.

Yes. That was my exactly my train of thought. So we have a 237 percent increase in one k sales year over year.

And to me, that suggests there are now there are people now willing to spend more on more players. Do you think this means more collectors are seeing WNBA cards as long term assets or grails?

I think so. I think it marks a shift, a parallel shift, where more collectors aren't necessarily just solely acting on passion, but they're also acting on belief in momentum.

And what I mean by that is as more people enter this segment, I think it's easier to believe in it. You're right. So you have more people buying. That means there's more liquidity. There's more comps that are showing up.

So you can be more confident in the purchases with the backlog of history of sales. And so I do think, you know, this is a good it's a good thing, and it doesn't mean that the passion is going away.

It just mean the means the passion is being validated by more and more people. So while Braille's I think rails inherently have to be personal to the collector.

They cannot just be a universal card. One rail for somebody is not the same as a grill for another. I think that's an important distinction between the idea of framing it as a long term asset versus a grail.

Those are two different things. But now the idea of the WNBA grail is becoming more universal among collectors. So I I do think that this means more people are seeing them as a bigger ticket item.

One quick one here, and we are talking about growth and we're talking about I love your distinction about grails. You know, we've pulled this thread about new money, new collectors coming in, existing collectors. If if data doesn't lie.

Like, 232130% increase in a one k sales, which means anybody listening who's been here for that long who has one k cards, like, there's the chances are, like, the values of the those cards are increasing because of the growth and popularity of the category.

I guess if if you're a long term collector who's been in the space and seeing the crazy changes, and, yeah, you might be paying more, like, what could what can we what what can we be doing as participants in the space to, like, maybe be open or maybe share some information and educate, as new collectors are coming in so that they don't just come in and leave, but they stay and enjoy this category as much as we're all enjoying it.

Yeah. I think it's just the essence of collecting is very personal.

So while existing long time collectors can say and educate new collectors as to what they think might be the most, say, long long standing or has a good legacy type of card, it's to embrace the fact that new people might also have different tastes than you.

And if you just allow people to collect what they like, they're gonna be much more open to staying in that segment for longer.

And to have a little grace with that, I think new collectors are obviously obviously gonna be drawn to what brought them to that segment, which right now is usually either the 2024 and or the 2025 rookie class. Let them marinate there.

Let them get used to it. That's a familiar place to start. You know, we all started somewhere with some sort of grasp on something that we drew from either our fandom or another lane of collecting that helped us get into this.

Then once they get comfortable there, they're gonna look for what set the foundation, and that's gonna be looking back at the history of the league and of the players and the cards.

So I would just say having that grace and kind of just embracing the idea of new collectors.

I know we removed, Caitlin Clark from the dataset, but it's undeniable her just media mainstream attention, the role it's played in bringing in new eyeballs.

How do you think, like, the mainstream media attention created a halo effect around other like, from Clark to other players?

Like, maybe talk a little bit about your observations and what you have seen and maybe just from some of your interactions and conversations with maybe newer collectors online.

Yeah. I think the the main message here is that Clark is the rising tide, but there's a lot of votes going up with her. She's not the only one. She's just the captain of of of all of them.

And so I think while, you know, there's been this halo effect, I think it's interesting because even if her cards aren't included in this data, which is making this strong case as to why the category is growing, I think it is a reflection of her presence and her impact in the hobby 100%.

And I think that's undeniable because I think that Caitlin Clark shifted how people perceive the timeline of WNBA.

I think, you know, whether or not people like to admit it, Caitlin Clark, it's it's before Caitlin Clark, Caitlin Clark, and then after Caitlin Clark.

And I think that, you know, we have to accept that for a lot of people that are are new to the to the hobby or to the league in general, that they're gonna use that as their kind of anchor point is Caitlin Clark.

And so when we talk about this halo effect or the idea of legends, like, you know, we talk about Sue Bird or we talk about living legends or current legends like AJ Wilson.

Obviously, at some point, Caitlin Clark is not gonna be the only person that they're watching.

Caitlin Clark can't play basketball by herself. You need five players on a team, and there needs to be two teams playing against each other. So we're gonna look back at who formed those teams and who's competing against her.

And I think the the main message is a rising rising tide raises all boats. And I think the same goes for the younger stars. So with the new momentum, not only are you looking back, but you're gonna see even more momentum moving forward.

And I think that's the case that we're seeing with these high Page Becker sales is that the Caitlin and Clark effect is also, I guess, lingering into the future, not just the past.

Great. Great take. Great, observations. I'll just say, like, I I don't know at this point with her back on the floor in the update today.

They say no no new injuries were found or no nothing severe, and her timeline of coming back on the court is a mystery or we're not pushing anything, which makes me believe that fever, you better be able to make the playoffs without Caitlin Clark because she might not be back into the playoffs.

That's just my easy yeah. I don't know.

That's very pessimistic, Brad. Have some I know. It's tough, though. It's it's tough. It's this is what happens. I'm watching the Liberty game and the fever are playing great, and it's like, my wife's like, they're playing great.

And I'm like, yeah. Wait until the fourth quarter. And then the fourth quarter happens, and the Liberty absolutely stop the fever.

But you're right. I need to be more optimistic. I yeah. I think I think just one thing on the Caitlin Clark thing is they just need to to stick to that minutes restriction, and you're gonna feel a lot better about things.

Just don't let her overextend herself and then let her go full pedal to the metal in the playoffs. Maybe hey, Caitlin.

Let's get you on the coaching staff. I shoulda interrupted that dinner, that nice family dinner they were having and told Steph White that. I suppose it was. Okay. I wanna talk about the that don't wanna glaze over the, 5,500 to 10 k.

That that's, like, a pretty staggering number, like, high sale in that time frame. What and you and I, I don't think you and I are spending 10 k on cards, like, in in WMEA cards.

Like, you know, we'd we'd buy some big cards, but that's pretty strong. Like, what kind of mindset shift do you think collectors, have to take, or mindset shift does it take for a collector to shell out 5 figures for a WNBA card?

Do you think it's, like, what we're seeing and it happening over and over, do you think it's, an emotional thing? Or do you think it's, like, I'm seeing other people do it, so I'm going to do it?

So, like, emotional versus, like, investment thesis, like, what's your, perspective there? Yes. This is an outsider take. I think I've spent $5,000 or more on maybe one card, maybe, and that had mostly trade involved, to be clear.

I don't operate in this, bracket of cards just because it's something that I'm not comfortable with. I'm sure in the future, I'm gonna feel persuaded to move up there, but I'm still growing as a collector.

So this is a more of an outside perspective. So I'm not I'm not in this. But I think the idea of a mindset shift, you mentioned emotional.

I think I think the the higher the numbers go for as an outsider, it feels like the emotional aspect goes down. It feels like more of a, I think this card is going to retain value, therefore, I'm going to purchase it.

That doesn't mean there isn't an emotional connection. I'm not claiming that. And there are obviously outliers to that. This is just my perception.

But I think there's more it's more so of a market confidence. As we see more buyers come in, as we see more comps being set, people feel more encouraged and and enabled to make those purchases because they're not the first ones.

And I think it's interesting because that idea of first ones is what I wanted to talk about here, which is that a few years ago, you spend $5,000 on a WNBA card.

You're the only one doing that. That is the rare outlier case. Right now, it makes you early. And I think that's a different mindset shift that these people that are operating in this market have.

It is that they think it's a good deal. Whereas, you know, you couldn't fathom spending $5,000 on it five years ago, but now I'm gonna hop on it immediately at $5,000. So I think that's kind of the shift that's happening.

But for me to be able to make that mindset shift, I'm gonna need a paycheck shift. We need to get that. Hey, Caitlin. Hopefully, you're out grabbing while you're having fun, you're grabbing business cards.

You know, getting getting some of that, WNBA money on the WNBA card podcast so we can, start buying some 10 k cards like nothing. Experiment with the 10 k cards if we start getting that money coming in.

That's right. So for so let's, like, as we're kinda rounding this out, moving from, like, this I guess, what does it take to move from, like, this niche category where it's like, we know everyone.

We when a card sells, we probably know who bought it type of thing to move into this, like, broader real collecting category.

Like, I don't know. Like, when I when you say basketball cards, like, people think of, you know, Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, and people don't think that WNBA collecting, it's kind of like WNBA is its own small category.

Like, what do you think goes into that shift? Obviously, sales volume, more people, those are some indicators. But is there any other things you see that might help WNBA take the nest next step?

Yeah. I mean, I think cards are just one part of the ecosystem of the league. And so with the league really improving right now, you know, they just signed a new media deal.

That's gonna get ton of new eyes. And with the Caitlin Clark effect in full in full bloom, I think that this is just the cards are just gonna follow with that.

And so while I don't think that categories necessarily just announce themselves as being legitimate or non niche, I do think that, you know, they just start taking over more, and I think that's happening.

May maybe I'm just wearing rose colored glasses as being somebody who loves the WNBA and loves the WNBA segment and the hobby, but it feels like we're reaching all corners now.

I I've talked to people who collect all sorts of things, and they're talking about Caitlin Clark or they're talking about Angel Reese.

So they're at least talking about it. If they're not buying it or selling it, they they're aware of it. And that didn't used to be the case. Like you said, people it didn't really cross the forefront of the mind.

And so while I don't think it's necessarily cemented itself as, like, you know, obviously, like the NBA, I think we're getting there. And and it's not gonna be a black and white shift where somebody goes, oh, congrats, WNBA collectors.

You're now not a niche market. That's not gonna happen. It's just gonna continue to get bigger and bigger, and I think we're well on our way.

And and we'll just keep seeing the returns on that soon. Alright. Final final in this sag. Do you think we're gonna I mean, we've we're seeing more and more cards hit eBay, hit marketplaces.

Do you think that for the rest of the year, this this trend will continue where we have those cards that pop up in our saved searches that kinda stop us in our tracks that we're, like, all talking about on DMs trying to figure out what's gonna happen with it?

I think so. It it feels like they just keep popping up. I'm excited. We're going into the national this upcoming week.

I'm excited to see what pops up there. Because even last year, it felt like, it was 10 times more than the previous year. So, like, I just expect it to keep growing exponentially both in person and online.

And I think part of it is, you know, people that have been hanging on to these, quote, unquote, grail or investment pieces are seeing the dividends that's paying in comps, and they're more willing to to get rid of them at that point.

So I think we'll just keep seeing them be unearthed. And as more packs are ripped, you know, we keep seeing, like, 2020 prices continue to rise and rise.

We talk about 2019 Don Russ. As these continue to get opened, I think there's still a lot more that are out there that haven't been, you know, ripped open yet.

We'll continue to see them hit the market. I think it's really important as we close this out is to always pay attention to the data.

Like, follow the data. There's platforms like Cardlytor to do do it. It'll help inform, make allow you to make the best buying decisions possible, but also identify trends.

Like, the data is the truth, and we're going to do whatever we can to bring this type of information and data to you on a regular basis.

Yeah. I love it. This is this is stuff that gets me excited. Alright. Collector spotlight time? Yes. Let's do it. Okay. This week's collector spotlight is at john a brogi.

I hope I said your name right, John. John recently joined Instagram, has 45 followers at the time of recording with Brett giving him a follow. And you may recognize this handle or name from Facebook where John is very active.

With the national rapidly approaching like we just mentioned, I thought this would be the perfect collector spotlight because he'll be setting up at Booth Number 865 at the national with a ton of crazy stuff.

Not only does he have Caitlin Clark cards, obviously, but he has pre, pre Panini cards as well, as well as, like, modern braille.

Brett's showing a picture where there's just a ton of one of ones in it. There's color blast, there's prism, there's origins, all sorts sorts of stuff.

So just wanted to give a a shout out to John. He's been doing good things and to check him out if you're able to make it to the national. Okay. So shout out, John. Caitlin, I'm trying to figure out I've been like oh, man.

I've been trying to figure out, like, my collector national strategy, and I'm like, trying to figure out I haven't tonight is the night, because I I I leave tomorrow for a family trip, and then I won't have time to do it otherwise.

But I'm trying to figure out, like, the cards to bring element.

How do you, like, how do you feel, like, I don't know. I'm, like, debating. It's like, do I like, from a WNBA perspective, do I bring, like, everything because there might be something that I can trade into or make a deal?

Do I just bring maybe a couple cards that are I know in my collection that aren't forever cards?

I see, like, a collector like this, and I'm just like, is there an opportunity to, like, level up and do a bigger and better card? I know it's the biggest show and probably the best opportunity, but I'm not the only one.

Like, what sort of advice do you have for me or anyone else out there that's debating, like, do you bring your cards or not? Oh, well, I think you should bring your cards for sure. You should bring some cards.

That being said, I think I have a different kind of, outlook than other folks. So for my example, I'll say this. I've got a batch of cards, say, 20 or so. Half of them are WNBA that I don't think they belong in my forever PC.

I'm very confident in that. But at the same time, I don't buy cards I wouldn't be happy keeping. So they're not just, like, cards that I'm tossing away. They're just cards that I think I can move into something else.

So I'm bringing those, but I'm also bringing cards that are either in that middle purgatory spot where it's like, you could stay with me forever, or you could help me get something that I could stay forever.

And so, like, my example right now, I don't think I've told anybody this, but I'm packing up my 2022 Bowman Uchrome, which is Caitlin's first rookie or first college cards.

I have her 2009 throwback. I have the orange out of 25, and I was looking at how much I paid for the card compared to what it's worth now. And it was that moment I said to myself, I I don't think it's worth that much to me.

And so while it is one of, like, my favorite cards in my collection, it just doesn't make sense if I can find something that I like more than it and can move it into that.

So I'll be bringing, like, those kinds of cards. That's my kind of specific example where I'm I love them.

Like, I don't wanna get rid of that card, but if I run into a 2011 Rittenhouse Maya Moore, now we're putting them on the table. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So that's the second category of cards that I'm bringing.

And then the third category of cards is kind of controversial, I would say, which is I'm bringing my $20. 20 fee gold, and it's not in any way to sell or trade. It's to say, look, I collect fee.

You should sell me your fee because I actually collect her as kind of, like, proof and signal to a collector. Like, I deserve it more than this person. So that's the third category of cards that I'm bringing.

I love the breakdown. You got me thinking about what I'm gonna do maybe a little bit differently. Yeah. Maybe maybe bring a few I could name a couple cards you can bring, Brett. I'm I'm sure I'm sure you could.

Alright. Should we move into, Mailbag to finish this off? Let's do it. Okay. Let's start with some all star weekend focused questions. The first one comes from loyal listener at m j s underscore sports cards.

What's the coolest famous person interaction you had this past weekend, Brett? You know, I didn't get, like, a, what's up or any conversation, but I, you know, I'd mentioned the page and the Stewie of it all.

That was great. That was just one. Just one. I'll just say I'll say the Paige Beckers of it all just because it it was literally right when we passed the w, right when we walked in and passed the w.

And it my wife spotted her, and it just caught me so off guard that, you know, I felt kinda, like, frozen for a minute and, like, it's an uncomfortable feeling, but it was also very cool.

So I'll I'll say that one. What about you? It's so hard. I had so many good experiences. I think I went into as many as I could possibly remember. And if I had to pick one that just was super cool, I would say Madison Booker.

She's not even in the w yet, but just like the being so humble and, like, being willing to talk to somebody that you have no idea who they are and be open to that, I was like, you just earned a a lifelong fan for coming over and and just, like, being so respectful and cool.

So that moment and that picture, means a lot to me, and now I'm on the lookout for some some book cards for sure.

That room. Question two. From at for the shoe twenty eight, post all star weekend, which team do you think will take a step back?

And which team do you think will surprise us and move forward a little bit? I will say you're I don't think I don't think you're gonna like both answers, and I promise I'm not mentioning the links. Okay. Yeah. Say what you want then.

So, take a step back. I think it's gonna be the Valkyries. I just think it's Oh. I just I just don't know if it's sustainable. It's a good story, but if I'm betting and and I don't need the Bay Area to get in my dams.

It's been a great year for you. I just I'm just not sure it's sustainable, and I I just there's they're they're a very fun team, and they play their ass off.

They play great defense, but, you know, there's not a ton of star power. And I think in this final stretch, you're gonna need a lot of star power. So that's the take a step back.

Which team will surprise us? I think it's gonna be the Liberty. I think they're out for blood. I think Oh. I I think seeing John Quall Jones back is the it's everything. She's so important to everything they do.

They're healthy. They're just it never ends. It never ends when you're playing that team. They just keep throwing players at you, and they're all good. Yeah. And they just picked up Emma Eastman off Yeah.

Like, whatever the waivers have Never stopped. The actual waivers. I'm like and I I looked into it. It turns out, like, some of the Liberty players are taking lower salary cuts so that they stay below the the cap.

I'm like, woah. Collusion. Collusion. You can't have that many star players on a team at once. Yeah. I as much as it hurts to admit, I I I agree with that. Okay. What about you?

Well, for me, I think the team that's gonna take a step back, you're not gonna like my answer, which is the Washington Mystics. Now let me preface by saying I really do like the Washington Mystics, especially post all star break.

I love the players on the team. Just the whole vibe is very cool. It's obviously young. I think the young part Yes. It's just tough to overcome. I'm not rooting against them in any way.

I hope they do well, but I just think that the consistency of that is gonna be so difficult that I think that would be my betting favorite. Because right now, they're eleven and twelve, and that feels good. Like, that feels Oh, yeah.

Active. You know what I mean? I just don't think it can continue at the that pace. Yeah. I think that I think that's that's that's fair. The youth it's like, lack of star power, and then with the mystics, it's you've got the youth side.

Although they have three all stars, it's very very two of them are are rooks. So Yeah. We'll see. And then my surprise for who is gonna take a step forward was actually the Valkyries, who you said was gonna take a step back.

And my reason is right now, they're in ninth place in the league out of 13, and they're ten and twelve. And to me, it feels like they're playing a hell of a lot better than that.

It feels like they're outperforming their record, which to me is a good indication of the fact that it's gonna continue going well, and hopefully, the winds will just start to fall.

We'll see. We'll come back and update y'all if you're right or not. We will. Alright.

Let's get into our final couple questions. These are all hobby focused. The first one coming from at card underscore collect underscore her. Did Panini tell us when Donris is coming? And I'll just take this one right off the bat.

I'm asking myself the same thing because they said it was supposed to be out July 16. I'm looking at my watch. Not it's past July 16. So have you heard anything new on that front about Donner's? No. Par for the course.

I think, you know, rookie royalty got dropped in unexpectedly, and I'm guessing that shook up everything from a timeline perspective. The one thing I've learned about being in the hobby all these years is never trust a release date.

Alright. Well, expect that 07/16/2026, folks, I guess. Alright. Next question from at s holly two thousand three. Inspired by the recent athletic poll, which player will be the face of the hobby in five years?

You know, I just I gotta say Caitlin Clark. I mean, it's just it's hard to see her outside of her just not coming back from this injury or ever playing again, like, I don't.

It would take a lot. I mean, she's she's built up all of this equity and all this attention, and, you know, she's a great player.

And so it's hard for me to bet against her at this point. For the sake of having a different answer, I'm going to say the hobby needs a winner, and Caitlin Clark hasn't won. And I think that Hey.

It's been a year and a half. Come on now. Oh, I'm sorry. She she didn't win in the college level either. But my point being is it takes it's for the hobby. I feel like they really, really, really latch on to that trophy case.

And so my take is Juju Watkins. I think she's gonna be a winner. I think she walks like a winner, talks like a winner, looks like a winner, is a winner. And I think if she goes to a bigger market team, that's gonna happen.

She's just gonna take over. That's for the sake of not saying Caitlin Clark. No doubt. And by the way, since we're talking about Clark, did you see the, the return of the, Stranger Things fever unis coming out? Hey. To each their own.

I I I wanna see some cool jerseys for everybody else now. They've been doing that for a while. I'm like, where's the I I like Minnesota Linx Fargo jerseys or something like that. Like, we need to get this as a league wide promotion.

No. Hey. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it seems like at this point, I think they showed a clip of, somebody doing auto signings with Aliyah Boston and, Clark, and I can't remember who else on the squad was next to him.

And someone was wearing one of those jerseys, And Clark said, we need to bring those back, and then what do you see? You know, two weeks later, here are the jerseys.

Hey. She needs to start saying more then. That's what I gotta say about that. I I like it. I mean, it's fun. It's it's something neat for the fans, and, yeah, I'm all pro I'm all about that. I like that a lot.

Alright. Similar question here, but a little bit different framing from at tall card guy. In five years, same time frame that we just talked about, which rookies from this year's class will have the top three most valuable cards?

Tall card guy said Paige, Kiki, and Sonia. Do you agree? Yeah. I mean, it's the it's pretty it's it's it's if I'm guessing five years ago, the best place to start would be with the three all stars.

So, yeah, I can't really go against that one right now. I'm gonna throw in a wild card and say Georgia Amor.

I think when she comes back, I think she's gonna set the hobby on fire. Also coming from the same team that Sonia and Kiki are on. So it just feels natural that, of course, they would just hit the jackpot three times in the same draft.

So I'll I'll throw Georgia in there. Good good draft, Mystics. Yeah. For sure. We're gonna round out today's pot from a final question from at m j s underscore sports cards.

Do you have any advice for WNBA collectors who will be attending the national for the first time this year? I would say find your people, and, don't just, like, make it transactional.

Like, if you find someone who's selling, WNBA cards, like, go have a conversation, meet them, and try to extend that outside of just that interaction, whether it's get getting their IG, whatever, making a deal.

I think you're gonna see I was recording another conversation today, and Caitlin Clark came up. You're gonna see rookie royalty in the same showcases as Tom Brady, Jordan, all of these.

It's it's, like, it's gonna be it. That's gonna happen. And so those I'm not saying that those individuals don't care about WNBA and don't collect WNBA.

Like, that's not what I'm saying, but I'm saying, like, you can have a start a conversation and see, and they might be your people, but chances are they're not.

Like, go find the people who literally, like, half their showcases to the NBA with all the all the players. And if you find those people, let me know because I I don't wanna make some deals. What do you think, Caitlin?

I completely agree. I think, you know, when I started going to shows, I didn't know a single person. And the national is kind of similar where, like, you could know 20 people and walk around and never see them because of how big it is.

So being intentional about meeting up with if you have some of those online buddies and finding them on the show floor, I think that's really important. But to that end, it's also more about extending and having new connections.

So like Brett was saying, if there's a dealer that has WNBA cards or if there's somebody at a table that has WNBA cards and they're showing interest in them, just strike up a conversation.

And if you, you know, if you see me strike up a conversation about WNBA cards, I think anybody who collects WNBA cards wants to be talking about it, and we're a little bit smaller contingent of the hobby than other ones.

So if you find each other, just just try to be cordial about it and be nice and talk to each other about it.

And I think a big thing is just putting yourself out there. I mean, like, you wanna go walk around together and see if we can find some w cards.

I think that's a good way to start too. But just be open to the fact that you're not the the only person that it's their first time being there. It might even be their first time at the show too. So just, yeah, I don't know.

Being being cognizant of people's positions in the hobby and and being open to to having those conversations if you're if you're more of a long term collector to to be that person to help educate and guide them through their first show or their first national for sure.

Great great feedback. This was a fun episode. We need to send you out to the all star game every week if that was possible.

Yeah. We should have our own seventy two hour livestream. Good. Goodness. Alright. Hey. If you're if you're a hobby brand out there, we're still open for business, and we're both gonna be at the national.

So just slide to the devs. Maybe we can make that happen. There we go. And I look forward to seeing you all at the national as well. Hit us up if you see us there. We'll we'll both be there. Thanks, everybody. Bye.