welcome back loyal listeners of the stacking slabs podcast network to season five episode thirteen of the wnba card podcast my name is caitlin i go by at cold lunch cards mostly on the instagram machine but you can find me in a few other corners of the internet as well and today i'm super excited to continue to deliver collector driven and community focused content to wherever you guys are listening to us today today's a really fun episode the guest that is joining me today is sean lepper he is better known in the hobby as at motor city marks and sean is a longtime collector with a pc that spans notre dame wmba wrestling and a whole bunch more but there's really one player that here we're here to talk about today and that's kind of the centerpiece of his collecting world and that would be marina mabry he's gone far beyond simply picking up a few of her favorite cards diving deep into mabry's print runs and building a collection around her career and now as today stands marina mabry is helping lead the brand new toronto tempo franchise forward so today's episode is the toronto tempo slash marina mabry episode with sean sean thank you for being here i've been a longtime follower of the collection that you're building specifically on instagram and i've been a fan for a long time so this is just gonna be an incredible conversation for anyone who may not know you yet and this is maybe their first introduction to sean lepper maybe tell me a little bit about yourself and introduce yourself to the audience yeah first of all thank you for having me my name is sean lepper i go by motor city marks on an on instagram mainly i do have a twitter account but barely barely use it i grew up in a small town in michigan moved up to grand rapids michigan where i currently reside about a handful of years ago bounced around many places as far as like jobs go but now i work for a a local card shop up here so that's my everyday gig now yeah i've been collecting for as long as i can remember so super excited to get into the conversation today yeah this is gonna be a good one you're living the dream collecting eat live sleep dream cards so i'm jealous of that why don't we kinda like talk about your your origin story why don't you bring us kinda back to the beginning of what you can remember do you kinda have like a earliest memory of cards that comes to mind yeah so i i can always remember some type of cards in my collection or or when i was a kid and didn't really know that they were collectibles right like you know always playing with whether it be pokemon or or yu gi oh back in the day and then definitely into like the baseball basketball football side of things even as a little kid like most fell out of it kind of in that like middle school high school age and then i picked it up probably about my senior year you know had a couple friends that you know kinda were getting into it and i have never really like left but it wasn't on the forefront during those those years so it's always been you know something that's been a part of me you know so then really when like mike trout bryce harper were coming onto the scene is really when i remember picking it back up the most right around that like twenty twelve twenty thirteen time frame so i've been off and on since but i would say for the last like decade i've i've been you know pretty strong i love that i think a lot of our journeys are you know start in childhood and somehow we boomerang back whether it's through the same lane that we once collected or to something new and we'll get into the something new here soon but before we do i kinda wanna talk about one thing you mentioned which is you said collecting has kind of always been a part of me i i resonate with that a lot when you think of kind of your identity as a collector where in today's ecosystem would you say you sit you know we have people that call themselves peer collectors we have people that call themselves investors dealers you obviously have the card shop angle of things sure how would you describe your place yeah so i think with like my wnba collecting it's really player driven and you know while i i share a lot of like her out of tens her one of ones on my instagram you know sometimes not the most like pretty or or sexy post if you will as her you know number to two ninety nines like those just go in a binder for me so for like marina i i definitely consider myself a super collector it's definitely hard anymore with how many parallels there are but you know otherwise like you know you mentioned at the beginning in my bio it's notre dame it's wrestling there's other collectibles mixed in so like outside of the super collector angle of the the collection with marina i think my collection is is all over the place if you will i definitely buy and and resell you know to to kind of fund more into the the collecting side of it you know and i do that as as my job too you know it it's i try to keep those two things separate though easier said than done sometimes absolutely as a very amateur seller myself i find those two categories bleeding over a lot especially one way more than the other and i'm sure you feel the same way i kinda wanna hear your you you you listed off kind of those different elements that i saw in your bio as like high level categories of what we would find in your pc but if somebody kinda opened up your collection for the first time maybe what would be the elements across cards you mentioned kind of the categories which is notre dame wnba wrestling etcetera but what's kind of the i don't know unifying factor across all of that i would definitely lean towards rarity okay rarity and then just the fun factor you know whether it be notre dame stuff to me or wrestling stuff to me that's worth five bucks or seven hundred dollars it's it's all unique in its own way to me you know i try to find stuff that's different than than most not the everyday cards you're gonna see at you know a local card store or a local show on everybody's table you know i kinda want the even if it's not a one of one it's i just want it to be unique in in its own right so i think that's if somebody opened up a zion of mine or a box of mine i think that's what they would notice is how unique and different maybe each route that i i have is i i get that one hundred percent i think like in terms of myself when i when i try to open my collection whether it be my case or a box of cards or even a binder i think to myself could anybody else recreate this collection and when i look at yours i feel like the answer is no like this is sean at motor city mark's collection only he could put this together and kind of having that i don't know ownership or sense of just yeah self over the collection is really powerful and i think when you talk about you know two factors that pull you in you said the fun factor but also the rarity aspect combining those two things is easier said than done it comes usually with higher price points but it's really rewarding and i'm excited to get into kinda how that translates into your wnba collecting and your marina mabry collecting but before we kinda get to that because that's the core of today's episode i wanna zoom out for just like a second if you'll indulge me and set the tone kinda for today's episode which is one of the reasons why this podcast exists is to kinda create a space where women's sports cards and women's sports in general can be celebrated and talked about on their own terms there hasn't been a space for people to come on and talk about just wnba cards or just marina mamer you know and i haven't heard anybody do that before so i've asked the get a guest every episode on this season this question which is what is being a fan of women's sports and moreover collecting women's sports cards mean to you personally yeah i would say it it means a lot you know definitely like i still have fun with the wrestling in notre dame and kind of the oddball collections that i have but the most fun i have is with women's basketball you know i'm i'm a season ticket holder for notre dame women's and and like i mentioned i live in grand rapids michigan so i'm a good hour and a half away from south bend indiana and and i'm down there eight times a year for for basketball weather weather permitting but you know going all the way back to like when i really first got into it skylar diggins was just arriving on campus and and then watching her go do what she's now done in the in the league for as many years as she's been been ballin' it just means the world because i i think i'd still be having fun in the hobby and going about it definitely different but the fact that like women's cards have become such a big thing i i definitely think that it's a it's a big part of of who i am as a collector anymore i love that i think anything that can give you a place to have fun in this hobby especially today is kind of sacred ground and when you add in the legitimacy that's coming to the category you add in your personal ties of you know taking that hour and a half trip eight times a year down to the irish campus it just feels like it means more and i'm just excited to learn more about how that trickles into your cards so why don't we get into the mabry of it all because we've talked about your high level portfolio or collection of cards from like all the different categories and what kind of women's sports means to you more generally but every serious collector at least in my opinion seems to have one player one team or a niche that just means a little bit more and and becomes a little bit obsessive we get we get obsessed with it and and i think for you it's fair to say that that's marina mabry so before we get into the cards themselves i wanna get into marina mabry as the player the person can you take me back to the moment that marina mabry kinda became your player and what was happening where you kinda looked at her and said yeah this is gonna be my pc and and it's not just gonna be a pc it's gonna be a super collection yeah so it it comes in a two factor if you will so i'm like i said i'm a season ticket holder now that hasn't always been the case and actually when i lived closer to campus i i only went to a handful of games i was at her and erika gumbawale's freshman debut it would have been their exhibition debut not their regular season but i was at when they first you know tipped off on on home court and i just saw the you know i don't know if i quite expected her career to play out as you know the all time leading three point you know holder at notre dame and and stuff like that but there was just a connection that i saw with like her her fieriness the shot making ability you know so i i definitely chose her on for that side but also we share a birthday so september fourteenth i think i'm a year or two older but we share the the birthday and and as soon as i found that out i'm like you know what if she makes it professionally and and ever gets cards i i wanna at least you know own some of her her better ones i don't didn't know i'd go as far as super collecting but that that's how it always goes right yeah one hundred percent somehow it just snowballs and suddenly you're the best marina mabry collector in the world which is super exciting i think those little things like a birthday or for me sometimes it's a jersey number that just because i used to wear that jersey number or something like this these little things that then you turn the card over and back when they used to actually write things on the back of the card it would say her birthday or it would say the jersey number and you think wow i feel seen or i feel heard or i feel a part of this card like me personally not i look at this card differently say than the person sitting next to me right i think that's a really powerful factor so i i completely understand what you're saying and i have a i have another question you talk about her kind of personality i think a lot of what the internet perceives as marina mabry maybe the headlines that marina mabry makes aside from putting up incredible numbers and like being a real spark in charge for a crowd is that maybe she's got a little chip on her shoulder she plays with a certain kind of mentality that especially in women's sports isn't always received the same way that say it would be received in men's sports what do you think people who know mabry as kind of the fiery you know exciting player what do you think they kind of like tend to miss about her whether that be her game or her personality or what does this kind of like headline stereotype of marina mabry look like to you in practice yeah so i think it's definitely they they see the fieriness on the court yeah they they see the the shove pushing and shoving and you know the the new fans i think don't understand it's been around long before her and and you know some of the other gals that that do the the pushing and shoving or the fighting and but i i think they miss the the fact that she is such a a talented player you know i think she's kind of honed in the emotional level a little bit if you will and that's definitely helped her this year scoring wise and and like i mentioned she she's able to get to the rack now pretty much at ease but you know with her growing up with an older sister and a younger sister kinda being that middle child i think that's where that competitiveness comes from but i also think that makes a really good player you know i agree you you don't necessarily have to go to to those extreme levels but i kinda want someone like that on my team you know i growing up in detroit you know i never got to watch them i'm i'm a little too young for it but hearing about the bad boys you know they they put the jordan rules together and you know i don't think we need to go that far again but it's nice to have on a team i get that one hundred percent i think mabry's one of those players that if i was like a gm or like somebody making roster decisions that's the kind of player i wouldn't want on the opposing team i'll tell you that like i'd want her on my team and i think that kind of like competitive spirit creates a cult fandom and it's especially apparent now with like a new franchise like the tempo where they just kind of cling on to that so it's really exciting to see how she's been embraced when she's typically kind of been a player that's not necessarily been at the centerpiece or built around on a franchise i kinda wanna back up a little bit and go back to the cards when you started first collecting marina mabry what did those early days look like were you deliberately hunting certain cards did you already have like a list and you were working through it or was it kind of an organic collection that you eventually evolved yeah i think when i when i first started you know she she was a player that didn't have cards her first couple of years in the league getting drafted by the sparks in the second round and then kind of bouncing over to dallas to be teammates again with enrique she didn't get cards until twenty twenty one i was all always hopeful that we'd get it in nineteen don russ or twenty twenty prism but i i always had the the goal in mind that if if she did get a a rookie card if you will that i i wanted to rainbow it but i also i i like to upgrade cards as i can now i i mentioned that you know most of my mabry cards are in a binder i like to flip through the the rainbow and and kinda you know just take my time with it i do have graded cards so i i you know just put a slot in the binder for those but i i do like to upgrade as i can to you know jersey numbers stuff like that so it it was always a goal to rainbow her rookie card you know moving forward into the the longer run of her her career parallels now i didn't know i'd quite make it this far but yeah i would say that i've i wanted to own her best rookie cards it's a good goal to have and a tough one i i i have a question for you as somebody who you're collecting somebody that doesn't have kind of like a true rookie card i suppose or like it doesn't correct me if i'm wrong but her her card that you're mentioning the prism doesn't have that rookie card badge right correct yep okay what is that like as a collector where it's like i i have this one player that i i love and if i could just have a card to buy i would but i i don't what is that kind of feeling like in the interim and then when you finally found one when they finally put her in prism what was that feeling like was it relief or were you kinda like was it bittersweet i would say a mixture of both okay primarily when when i was getting into wnba collecting i was more of you know the irish i just wanted cards of of all the the girls have moved on to the professional level mhmm coming out of notre dame and marina not having a card i was disappointed but i i knew as she kept you know making a name for herself that she would definitely get a card at some point now i didn't know if that was gonna be twenty one twenty two or so on you you know because a lot of the second rounders back in the day they they just didn't make any cards up you know so i i think as a as a true like collector that i am i would prefer it to have a rookie badge on it but i'd i'm just happy she has has a rookie card i get it you'll take what you can you can get i guess and i i i do think it's interesting when we think about just like how many players are drafted in the wnba especially historically in the second round or later that because of the limited number of roster spots they just aren't given that opportunity and therefore they don't have cards that exist compared to say you open up the topps football flagpip that came out and you can have guys that you've never heard of before and be like a real die hard fan and you're like who the hell is this and that can be your first introduction to the player so it's gotta be an interesting feeling kind of collecting across sports and seeing that i don't know misalignment it's gotta be an interesting feeling for sure it is one hundred percent when you think about your building and curating your marina mabry collection are there any kind of like rules that you have i think for collectors a big part of collecting is the budgetary aspect we can't own everything for wnba cards in the past maybe you could have like we've seen people that that you can own everything but today with prices skyrocketing sometimes collectors have to put up guardrails do you have any sort of like rules or this must be true in order for it to become a part of my pc or does that not exist for you i would definitely say there's some some budget rules in there especially nowadays you know do i need to buy every two ninety nine that hits the market first day probably not you know it's nice to have mail days it's nice to you know get home from work and open up a package of of cards but i would say like knowing how much product that we get now which sounds like a lot but it really isn't in terms of you know the major sports you know it it just knowing how many parallels that are out there and how many different inserts or subsets she's in you know i now with first off the line don russ for twenty twenty six hitting the streets you know there's always kind of that checklist aspect that i'm putting together of like okay if this hits ebay or this hits facebook or instagram am i gonna go after this right away probably not you know so i kinda have a rule that like if it's the first off the line parallel maybe you're not a twenty five or lower if i think it's a fair price especially given her market nowadays where you know she has a little bit more respect to her name i think i will go after it but if it's one of those where like i just know the price is ungodly i think i can justify waiting i definitely will try to do that yeah it's easier said than done which is kind of a a phrase i say a lot in this podcast but it's true that patience and that exercise of you know making logical rational decisions with something that pulls on the emotions of not being logical or not being rational which is being a fan is very difficult to do and it's something that i think only can be mastered or attempted to be mastered by practice and it sounds like you've had a lot of practice you've accumulated a lot of her cards are you kind of and correct me if i'm wrong i did some sleuthing on your instagram sean and i saw kind of some some wording some language around collecting an entire print run or trying to collect like everything that there is can you elaborate on kind of your your strategy and your approach to marina mabry cards from that perspective and what that hunt looks like for you yeah so it's definitely changed when i think it was twenty twenty three panini instant was just becoming a thing with wnba i didn't know it i don't think a lot of collectors had known it at the time but you know there's a couple big ebay resellers out there that just buy up all those instants and and then mark them up for whatever percentage they they they think they can get but i had seen that she was maybe it was twenty twenty three or twenty four i think it was twenty four actually because she had a a dual card with angel reese when she was a member of the sky and i had seen someone posted the one of one and i'm like do i go after the panini instance and and that's where like a rule came in it has to be pack pulled now will i go after some of the instance from you know her her big games or achievements absolutely do i need the best card of it no not not necessarily so it's it's definitely i i've gotten refined as to being a a pack pulled only guy you know and then kind of going from there if you will you know the again before that print run of the instance came out i had owned pretty much all but eight cards of her oh there there was a couple of one of ones that i was missing there's a white sparkle that has never been released i think a a few were backdoored from panini at the time but that year white sparkle marina has never showed up so i kinda i have a question mark next to that one but yeah so once the once all the products kinda shifted that's where like again i'm a super collector so i'd like to own them all but i know that's that's not a feasible thing to attempt so i i just like to to go after what i can now and if i can put a rainbow together i i'll definitely try what's kind of the like mindset i i'm not a rainbow collector so like i'd love to hear from you from your experience what kinda compels that and what's the the satisfaction feeling when you complete it why why rainbow why not something else like what's what's the reason so i think the reasoning is when you i i'm gonna keep bringing up the print runs and how much product we have anymore which i i'm not a i'm not a hater on i love it i i love that the space is growing but when she only had just you know she it was until twenty twenty four for her to get her first auto or her pack full auto so like all i was chasing were base and inserts so i think for me at the time it was it was an easy way to collect you know her her golds out of ten the black golds the mosaics the one of ones those were a little bit pricey not as much as they are now but i think it was just a fun way for me to to chase my favorite player and at the same time when you when i do complete a rainbow it's such a an awesome thing to even before i put them in my binder lay them out across the table or you know get a picture of them there's no good way to picture a rainbow by the way it's you get glare all over the place and you know you have to crop the photo but it's so much fun to to put them all together and and just kinda flip through it and and see the the work that you put into the collection i understand completely i think despite not being like a true rainbow collector myself i can understand the appeal of being able to say this is done this chapter is closed i think in cards and especially in this moment of the hobby and this moment of the world in general it feels like that we're constantly just striving for the next one what's the next one what's the next one what's the next one how can we just keep getting more i'm never satisfied with what's happening right now a rainbow gives you a hard stop of i did it it's done and there's no revisiting there's not there's no questions asked i did it it is done and i can see it and i think that that's a really powerful thing for a collector especially one that puts in like a lot of blood sweat and tears in defining them and the research that goes into it the amount of like fandom and passion to even consider that chase and then it all accumulates into that one final feeling is really powerful so i i think i'm understanding the rainbow fascination more and more and i'm really excited about that so so thanks for sharing that perspective sean absolutely it's it's it's you know a harder goal to hit anymore but it's it's such a rewarding feeling when when i do finish a rainbow i get it i get it i'm curious if you looked across your collection today and you were looking at just your marina mabry cards i'm talking about which cards would make you stop and think you know this is the feeling this is why i collect her i i love if you could pick a few cards that kinda represent that standout characteristic and tell me how you accumulated them or or what they mean to you so a couple come off come to the top of mind right away i would say it's her twenty four prism gold vinyl i have it in psa nine i acquired that at the national two years ago in chicago it was i was there on wednesday for sneak peek i was down there with my buddy josh called her card collector and a a few others he actually kinda got a few aisles away from me and in our group chat he had said hey sean get over here the marina one of one is is in a showcase so to have friends who are always looking out for for me and you know i i try to pay back the favors when i can but to to have that we got the deal done he got a card in the deal as well we kinda you know bundled the deal to negotiate a better price nice but to to have the people look out for you to get the card in person at at the biggest show in the country one that we look forward to every year and it was not a wnba vendor at all there was maybe five or six in the showcase so for that card to be there was mind blowing and to get it on day one of the show was was incredible my show was basically complete after that right and then this year john bragi one of the vendors that sets up there every year directly across the panini booth i had talked to him wednesday kind of earlier in the show went about our my business did you know had a had a good day one not as good as two years ago but i was doing a deal with another wnba collector who was gonna be at john's table helping out on thursday and he happened to mention that he had john had something for me and i was like okay you know i don't know what it could be i go there first thing thursday morning and i'm sure you've seen the video i think ann marie has has posted it but john had the twenty five gold vinyl one of one walk up to his table wednesday during the show he bought it sold it to me at his cost and so now for back to back years i've been able to acquire her one of one from prism at the show so again just incredible to to think that one it's there two it happens to walk up to the the one of the best guys in the hobby i mean john is such a great person and good walks walks up to his table and you know knows right where to go with it so those two i think are on the on the forefront i think another one would be i was able to land her panini instant from the unrivaled game from philly i got that directly from panini off the app i beat the bots or i beat the the flippers okay so i i remember watching the game live you know obviously wish i could have been in philly for that but what a what a performance what a showing what an event so i'm happy that i have the one of one of that that's awesome i i can't even think about the feeling that i would have of the needle in a haystack moment to happen two years in a row like that to to find any card at the national is like that's a win like i feel like it's just a sea of cards and if you can find one that you like that's awesome to find like two of the best mabry cards in existence that's it's a really beautiful moment so those are really cool stories and i love the the instant unrivaled cards one day hopefully they'll make us some pack pulled cards of those and then i will be all over them but for now that's probably one of the coolest unrivaled cards in my opinion in existence it's i i love that card it's i don't display a lot of my cards i'm i'm very picky about that like i said i get the binders out all the time but that that one with with the pose that she's got on the card that one's on display on my desk so that's nice i love that one that's that's so cool i've got a couple more questions kind of about the marina pc before we get into the temple of it all and and my first one for you is over the course of the years that you've been collecting marina mabry and been a fan of her how has kind of building this pc the super collection changed what you value in a card and what i mean by that is are there things that you appreciate about cards now that maybe you probably wouldn't have even noticed when you first started collecting mabry yeah i think i've i've definitely i've i've learned to appreciate just the the the smaller ones if you will you know the there there's some great higher number parallels you know the even going back to her rookies like you know you don't see that stuff every day anymore i mean to think it was only five years ago i mean that that's a long time but it was so close it just you don't see a lot of her rookie stuff you know so again to flip through the binder and kind of appreciate the the parallels that you know they've they've made now we don't like the prism that mhmm that's one of my favorites i always love a good cracked ice so when they brought those into into the product those are one of my favorite parallels you know panini does a a pretty good job with you know even though they have to add in higher print run serial numbered cards they do a nice job mixing up the parallels so there's definitely a lot of appreciation that goes into those higher numbered cards versus just hey it's a gold out of ten i i love it or it's a mojo out of twenty five so there's definitely appreciation for for all of it instead of just that that rare stuff that's so real i i relate to that so much i when you're saying that all i can picture is the the blue prism for some reason from that year it's just a different kind of blue like it just looks different might not be the most rare like you said it might not be the most expensive but you can't find them like you if you find them it's just by chance you know it's not like these are just readily available despite the higher print runs so i think kind of recognizing and taking a step back that when you become kind of a super collector in in order to become a super collector all the pieces of the puzzle have to come together you can't just have the top three cards that's not super collecting that's not super collecting like that's just being a high end collector of one person being a super collector is appreciating all of those different tiers that exist for that particular player and i think when you find a super collector like yourself that understands that it's it makes more sense it makes me like feel good that those cards are entering ending up in the right home so that's that's a really good kinda like lesson to come out of probably years of super collecting and many lessons so last question on go ahead go ahead no it's it's definitely yeah it's it's grown the appreciation and you know i i'm not one that has a a ton of duplicates but you know there there was a long period of time where if if i got a duplicate from a break or someone threw it in a a a trade or an addition to an ebay package i wouldn't i wouldn't sell it i mean yeah it's it's still part of the the collection now you know some of some of it i had to sell when you know harada two ninety nines rookie year went from ten bucks to another like forty i think that just helps me get another another card that i need for the next rainbow so right they're nice to have but typically not a duplicate guy but i i do have a box stashed away i love that just kinda the backups why not why not i love it absolutely so my last question before we get into the team that marina plays for i kinda wanna look forward instead of backward and reflecting what are the mabry cards that still kinda have your name written all over them that if you could wake up tomorrow and these one to three cards would appear in your collection what would they be well so i've i've only missed one one of one publicly that i know about i typically i have a number that i throw in my ebay auction that if i if i win great if i lose then somebody's willing to outpay me this was before her philly game this was before her fifty three point game her select concourse black finite from twenty four had sold on ebay auction for seven hundred dollars at the at the time was her highest selling card ever my number was about that so they beat me out by maybe five ten fifteen dollars so i would love to to get that one or have a chance at it i would say the biggest one though her rookie twenty twenty one prism one of one has never never surfaced publicly i'm assuming it's still in a in a pack or box out there but if that one is pulled and and someone has it i i would love a chance to to complete the rainbow you know the the white sparkle that has alluded me i i think is another one because that's the final piece of that rainbow you know for now i'm marking it as complete like i said because they they never technically released them i think a handful just got backdoored but i i think those three are are arguably at the top of the list right now those are some massive cards and i i hope if if anybody's listening and they have these this is the guy that you need to sell them to like this is the home that they belong in and i find those those white sparkles my like two cents on that is sometimes they just like randomly appear on ebay from sellers that seem to not understand like where they came from or like have any idea and they just show up with that panini like sealed sticker on them and i'm like where the hell are you finding these like any day sometimes they just like pop up and you're like what like where did these come from so maybe one day somebody will stumble upon it or maybe it's sitting in like a weird backrooms of panini somewhere and they'll release it one day but that's a weird one i think for now it's kind of like a grayed out like check question mark absolutely yeah that's it's it's in my spreadsheet as a question mark and and that's probably the way it'll be well well we can we can manifest it through this episode absolutely alright let's move into the temple of it all because i think that this is an interesting aspect to your collection is you have a player who's i would say now well established she's finally getting kind of the respect she deserves it feels like she has to fight tooth and nail to get any like in the past to get respect she earned her first selection to the all star game and now she's kind of the face of the toronto tempo a team that's brand new they're representing an entire country which i think is an interesting aspect to layer on top of it and they're still trying to figure out what their identity is what the franchise looks like in the future and you know this entire season of the podcast is all about a tour across the league so let's kinda shift away from marina and keep her in our back pocket as like a backdrop to the conversation but move to the tempo of it all what kind of stands out as to you as the toronto tempos like your first impressions of the team what stood out besides mabry to you yeah i think brittany sykes stood out you know the tempo have been riddled with injuries all season i think brittany was was on her way to an all star bid herself they were just yes such a dominant duo in the league the first half of the season so i would put her up there i love the the hiring of sandy rondello i thought she was the perfect fit for for a new organization you know niara sabali i i thought that was you know having championship experience all the way down to like izzy harrison i i think she's a great contributor and then i love the pick of keke rice i mean coming off the national championship at ucla and what a run that was you know again the injuries have have kinda diminished the the playing time especially for like that core group of of girls so i i think that they've definitely got a good outlook and i think they've all in the little playing time that they've all had together gelled about as best as they could for a brand new organization absolutely i was really impressed especially when they were healthy on what they were doing it feel like they were kinda firing on all cylinders despite being brand new and and having like the pressure i don't think any nobody talks about that sometimes but like having that pressure of a brand new franchise people obviously have lower expectations than say some of the perennial contenders in the league but there's a kind of responsibility to say this is this was worth the investment this was worth the all the hoop fly and all that kind of stuff and i felt like marina mabry and britney sykes really headline that team and made it a a true like good good team so to see them kinda crumble with injuries has been disappointing but i i'm with you with that their outlook is positive i think despite sandy being personally i have problems with her just because she she's the great coach and when the liberty let go of her my my first thought was one of these extension teams better pick her up because she's a she's the real deal and it sounds like they kinda got a win win situation there they didn't have to start brand new on yet again another front so i love those callouts of what kinda stands out for the tempo i'm curious to you to connect this to the cards what's kinda different about being a fan of a brand new franchise versus collecting more of an established wnba team that says has maybe thirty years of collecting history behind it sure i i think the biggest difference this time is is it's representing an entire country you know you have a lot more fandom this way i think the you know not just the city the toronto crowd is is involved it's it's all of canada are getting behind these women and and they they love it i mean they're selling out three different arenas in canada and they're traveling and i think that you know especially like i've seen some highlights from donruss so far but it looks like no tempo players other than kiki are in tempo uniform which is kind of expected i guess but with donruss being delayed i was hoping that they would at least get more than kiki but i think as as tempo cards come out that it's gonna it's gonna inspire a whole new collector base i mean you know we've seen that a little bit with marina's cards i don't monitor like britney's market as as closely but like even some of her stuff has gone up a little you know keke has a solid market i mean she's a rookie so rightfully so like that she's always gonna have the hype but you know a lot of these women are are getting a bigger collector base and and i've seen that on my side you know some of of her cards marina's that is is you know they're they're going up to where like they were three five eight dollar cards a a year or two ago and now they're consistently bringing ten to twelve to fifteen so you know even those little margins the little spreads like that i i think are good to see because that tells me a lot more people are buying yeah i hear that i i've always like dreamed as like a gis which is like geographic information systems nerd that in addition to sales history of date price seller we could get like delivery address just generally like i don't need like the geolocate i don't need like the lat long of your home that it's getting delivered to but like can i know the country or the state or something i'd be so curious to see kinda like where those hot spots of marina mabry cards shifted from before tempo to after tempo because i've met a lot of ebay sellers that are moving marina mabry cards especially that lower end more available higher print run things are being shipped up north and i just i think there's a real like that's a real thing and i think you're completely right that that's kinda what makes the tempo different is that you've got an entire country backing behind you and i think we see that especially in the wnba where there's a lot of women that are coming from overseas especially like say france spain and collectors wanna be involved if you if you give them the supply the the demand is already there so if the supply is there it helps a lot and i i would just love to see the i guess marina directions like the the the map of where those are being delivered to because i would bet it would be a heavy heavy canada contingent for sure i'm sure yes alright my next kinda like three questions are are three questions that i ask every guest this season because i i just think it's fun to hear across the league what people think so the first one is that around personality every team kinda develops their own personality and the tempo are in the middle of building that if you had to try to capture the personality of the toronto tempo and say three words or less would you be able to sean and if so could you tell us what you chose yeah i think i think i would just lean towards like bright future i i think the the coaching is phenomenal i mean again championship experience with kiki headlining the this past draft they're looking to be a a top three or four pick this coming draft which is gonna be another loaded draft loaded yeah you know having marina and and some of these other veterans that that can help lead the team i i definitely think they've got a bright future will they contend next year likely not hopefully the injuries can subside a bit as well but i i think i'd lean towards future i love that i i think a lot of these teams especially the brand new ones they feel a little unbalanced whether they have so many veterans or so many people that are kind of similar players or similar styles or they just have so many young young players that it's just like the inexperience is what's kind of cutting them short i think the tempo have done a good job of striking that veteran rookie presence and it feels like they're well positioned so i like the optimism as well i think that's a good place to be in especially for a new team my next question for you is a fun one i would like to hear from you if you could try to build a toronto tempo mount rushmore because this i usually ask this question and you know people go back twenty years and they pick like some legend but you can't you're you've got like one roster to work with yep so who's kinda earning the spots today recognizing and obviously adding the caveat that this is not the set in stone maybe this is like the blueprints the starter bart rushmore for the tempo yeah so i think i think i've kind of named them but i'm gonna start with marina you know first all star nod the fifty three point game tying the record having a career year by far i'm gonna put britney sykes up there again pre injury looking at her numbers she was on pace for a a career year and and her first half was i mean she was a a very talented first half should have been all star i think i'm gonna throw kiki up there just kind of as that that bright spot the future you know running the the show there and then i think i'm gonna put sandy brandello again with that leadership championship you know mentality experience i think i'd i think i'd be wrong to not put the coach up there right now i think that's totally valid do you think if you asked like you survey we surveyed a hundred tempo fans do you think that's kind of reflective are you are you are you trying to voice a more objective or do you think there would be pushback on certain players here from your understanding i i'd like to think that it would be the same i mean i think there can be an argument made for you know sebaaly or izzy harrison kinda stepping up from the second half with the injuries or even temi fekbenle with the with the injuries too she's seen a lot more hits and and again great veteran leadership with those three they've they've all been around i mean niara just with with the liberty but you know izzy and temi have been on on a few different teams and and i think that you know again like you mentioned they they have that good veteran balance to you know even the the women that have come from overseas and this is their first year in the w i i think that you know i'd like to think that the four that i i chose would be you know on most people's forefront but i i think you can make the argument for any of those others yeah i think i'm gonna cosign on your mount rushmore as much much as it pains me to sign anything endorsing sandy i i agree with the the picks i i like them my third kind of question that i've i've asked everybody is around this concept of the disrespect index which you know i've i've talked a lot about one day i will get around to quantifying it i promise just not today but it's this theory that i have or not theory but just like a idea that some players perform really well on the court and yet their prices in our hobby do not reflect this and therefore they are disrespected they're part of the disrespect index if you had to take one player on the tempo roster and kinda classify them as the tempo's highest scoring on the disrespect index who are you choosing and what's the the rationale behind it well if this if we would have done this before the fifty three point game i i likely would have sent marina okay i do think that there are certain cards of hers that if you compare them to like it like from her rookie year and compare them to like sophie cunningham's unbranded rookies i i they just outpaced marina's by astronomical numbers and i i don't think that's fair to marina but i'm i'm gonna have to go unbiased with britney sykes i think that you know she she's had a phenomenal career i'm gonna harp on the fact that she should have been an all star if injuries didn't happen and i think the disrespect is on her market i love this pick and i do have to shout out my friend katie who's in the twin cities who is like the britney sykes version of you sean of what you are to marina mabry she is of britney sykes so i think she would endorse that and i i i agree i think those are the top two i think despite them being kind of the faces of the team the market hasn't caught up and maybe it will but like these are two players that are super dynamic super fun to watch electrifying like they they just have a certain kind of like swag in my opinion both of them do and i think that usually that translates into higher prices but it just doesn't seem like it so that's a good pick i like both of them especially sykes my last question to you or like series of questions on this segment is around kind of your your feelings i mean the the season is well underway at this point by the time this comes out it will be a little bit later but how would you kinda grade the tempo season today compared to say your expectations going into the year yeah i think i i definitely again injuries aside they they started off on a on a nice little roll team was was healthy they were gelling quick then the injuries kinda hit i definitely liked the tempos expansion draft and draft and signees more than i did like portland's so i i think i had some some higher expectations but i think i i wouldn't grade them lower too much lower than my expectations but i i think they've had a a a fine year everything considered yeah i think it's been a good first year like you can't be disappointed in a in a first year showing like this especially with what you've called out around injuries i'm curious from a collecting perspective and especially from your like marina centric perspective because the franchise is so new does it kinda still feel like you're on a an island or does it feel like people are starting there's like boats coming up to the island and then you can feel the tempo collectors kind of starting to build some some momentum what's the kinda like feeling right now around around collecting the tempo i i can definitely feel the the boats coming to the island like i said when when i think these women start getting the the tempo jerseys or in game photos i do think that this is gonna trigger a lot more collectors coming to to pick up those cards you know i i think i've seen it a little bit with marina kiki i'd even add anissa in there she was just acquired at the trade deadline and you know her market wasn't like strong strong considering she was a rookie a year ago but you know i think from just like certain items that i've sold out of my duplicates box to like help fund others i have seen more and more people get into the tempo side of things but even like when i make a post on a on getting a new one of one or getting a new you know gold or even posting my my needs on like facebook or something you know there are some people that are like well i'm gonna be after her one of ones when tempo uniform comes out so i definitely feel the competition heating up mhmm it's a blessing and a curse i guess yes community good competition not so good for the super collecting journey so that's interesting i'm curious if you were to take like a five year outlook down the road what do you think the tempo could become both as just like a franchise but also as a collecting market i think collecting market it's gonna be big i mean having the the other country you know involved i think that that adds so many more collectors and you know the the card shops and card shows up there are likely gonna start carrying more wnba product or you know trying to get some singles of of all these women to to have available for customers so i can definitely see the market getting getting very big for for the tempo for the team i i think you know heading into i know we're in fiba break right now finishing up the second half strong getting some of these players back i know sykes and anissa are out for the season but there's potential of marina coming back just finishing the season strong and then going into you know the collegiate women's season whoever they pick top five i think will likely help the team right away yeah i don't know if they'll they'll start or or have a bench role but i think the the top five for the women for the draft is gonna be very solid so i can i can see the the tempo having a a successful five years you know will again will it be playoffs will it be you know under five hundred but competing i think that's all that i i care about right now is just competing you know if if they lose by five seven ten points i i think that's a a great showing yeah i i have high hopes for the tempo i think everything you hit on i completely underscore i think it's a franchise that for some reason i don't have any ties to the tempo i don't have any ties to toronto i don't have any ties to really any of the the players on the team but there's just something about it it just it feels easy to root for them and i'm rooting for them i hope things go well so that was super fun to kind of dive into not only in the mabry part of it but the tempo part of it and i hope for our tempo fans listening you kind of feel heard and that there's more of you that are hopefully going to be served via temple cards here very soon but i kinda wanna transition us into our our final segment which is the personal grail segment and we do this each episode and i always think there's something very revealing about asking a collector to forget about all these notions of value rarity or what somebody else might call the best card or a grail a term that gets thrown out a lot and instead take on the challenge of inventorying your entire pc and trying to pick out one card that kind of represents your fandom your collection and so that brings us to here i asked you sean before the episode to to take that inventory to go through your pc and choose one card that best represents your wnba or tempo or marina fandom not necessarily the most expensive not the flashiest but the one that sticks out the most you've already talked about a lot of cool cards we've talked about one of ones we've talked about all sorts of things what did you choose today as your personal grail and why did you choose that one yeah so i i chose my twenty twenty one panini prizm gold rookie numbered of ten my copy is in fact the jersey number three of ten this was her on the dallas wings of course i chose this one because i i wanted the best cards of her rookies and with the one of one not coming out it easy answer again for the twenty twenty one set could have been the black gold it could have been the mosaic because they're lesser numbered but there's just something about the gold right like i think it's arguably the best parallel i think adding the jersey number factor to it it's one of my favorite cards you know there would have been a lot of other easy answers to acquiring my her first logo woman from impeccable but just having her her best rookie that i know of to date i think that it says a lot about the the collection and where it's at like i i love every card in the collection but you know you had me going through my binders last night and then you know all my cards that are in in graded are in a box and i'm flipping through those and like i said there's so many easy answers for like grail cards and if you wanna deem it value wise but you know when i when i went back and looked at the rookie binder just getting to that page with the gold i'm like i think that has to be it the the rookie the gold jersey number and this is one i've upgraded i i the first copy i bought was not the jersey number before like the budgeting came in i had purchased one very high on ebay i think i was the highest sale at the time of of the rookie gold prism and then i was able to score the jersey number for cheaper than than what i originally purchased for gold so it was a win win for me and and i just i love that card and until i get the one of one i think it's my favorite rookie but for and i'm saying when because i i will have it if it if it ever surfaces but no the the gold is definitely the the favorite rookie card of hers that i i own that's that's awesome i i when you sent me the picture of it i think my response was something along the lines of oh that gold it's just kinda it's a little different like that year of gold looks so nice especially with the wings uniform i'm curious if you could indulge me for a minute when i first rejoined the hobby i thought to myself what's up with this gold thing going on like there's a lot there's a lot of different parallels there are parallels that in the panini era are serial numbered less than ten and yet the gold typically outsells them could you kinda give me the like your view because you're you're calling this your personal grow this is the one for you out of all of them this is the one yep what is it about gold that means so much to collectors so it's tough right because like i being in the in the shop and then and then me as a collector like i see both sides to it and i've had this discussion with with other collectors with even other employees at the shop like i think there's just something about gold and gold referring to money typically like you know if you own gold bars or gold coins you know you watch the market on that and you know for the most part in in the last few months it's it's hitting some crazy numbers so i think when panini came out with the gold numbered of ten it was even though you like like you mentioned like i stated i have the mosaic and the black gold which are number to three and number to five there's just something about the gold that pops and i think the collectors like that and i think they like that oh it's it's closer to money than you know my mosaic number to three or my gold vinyl number to five and if you're in the basketball or football world so i don't get it sometimes you know when i'm trying to you know chase after her black golds or her her mosaics like i always wanna pay less than the gold but i know that like certain people see that there's five less copies and they want more money which i get that side of it too like and i don't think there there's truly a right or wrong answer but i i just think that the collecting and and i guess reselling side always just sees that gold and it's like oh money it's such an interesting topic i feel like we could talk for hours about like just gold the evolution of gold why it's so important why for some reason it seems to overrule all the other rules that we have in place around rarity scarcity availability all these words that we use to describe things that drive prices but yet the color and the the parallel name it's not yellow there's yellow and that's not as it's gold and there's something so special about it like you said the familiarity maybe or the closeness the proximity to this concept of the gold standard that this is the standard this is the one that has no caveats no ifs ands or buts it's just the gold and that's why we like it and i think there's just something about it and maybe it's something that we'll never be able to quantify or fully explain but when i when i heard and like when you you talk about like this is the one i went with over the say logo woman or something that would be perceived as you know checking the boxes of being more i don't know market special or market worth more something like this it feels like gold just typically overrules all of that and i just find that to be such a special and such an interesting conversation so thanks for kinda like bringing that discussion to the surface sean absolutely yeah it's i mean like you said i i don't think there's a i we can definitely go into deeper conversation on and that's a whole other thing but yeah it's i i think it was better too when there was just the the one gold you know i agree not the retail's exclusive gold ice or gold flash i i think just that that one true gold is what the collectors always chase and you know again even if there's five or seven last copies it's just we want the gold it's it's the most appealing one and yeah it's it's something about it yeah we'll leave it at that something about it yeah well before before i let you go sean i wanna give you the floor is there anything maybe about our your pc about the tempo about marina that we didn't get to talk about today that you wanna say your final parting words before i hit you with a couple other questions i i think it's it's finally nice to have a team that i know she's gonna be on and help build an organization you know she she's bounced around the league from the sparks to dallas to chicago to connecticut and i honestly thought she was gonna be a part of connecticut for a while you know for for her to get picked up by the tempo it was kinda shocking to me i i kinda thought connecticut was in that building stage where they could use her as a leader but it's it's nice to just you know i'm i'm never been a a team guy because kind of when i started the detroit shock were on their way out that would have been the closest team to me you know in a couple years we'll get a detroit team back so i'll have a little bit of team fandom i think but it's nice to just have her in in one spot and i know that she's gonna help lead a team now that stability is something that we often take for granted as collectors until you know the the script changes so that's a really good call out sean for anybody who wants to kind of follow along with your your journey whether it be your marina mabry pc or the tempo as it may be where can they find you on socials yeah instagram is the best way i always post on the feed or in my story so at motorcitymarks that's pretty much where i do most of my hobby posting i do have a twitter but i barely use that it's also motorcitymarks awesome yeah you guys need to check out his page there's some awesome cards that we didn't even get to talk about today spanning both marina mabry wnba but also beyond that so i'd i'd highly encourage everybody to go look it out well every episode kinda ends the same way sean if somebody is listening right now and they're trying to figure out not just what wnba team to watch and cheer for but maybe one to collect could you make a pitch on behalf of the toronto tempo as to why they should join this journey yeah i think that again it's gonna go back to the the future i think kiki is is a great woman to get into her card market of i i think as you know donriss hitting the streets in the next couple of weeks first off the line kind of being out there i think it's gonna be relatively affordable compared to some of the other rookies i think she's a a great investment saw what she could do and what she did at ucla later i think that you know marina mabry sykes sebaaly harrison whoever they draft in the in the upcoming draft there's gonna be a a strong market moving forward for for the tempo and and i think that you know they're gonna be a fun team to watch awesome well there's your pitch for the tempo thank you again sean at motor city marks for joining the podcast and thank you to everybody for continuing to listen week over week i hope you're enjoying this kinda tour across team collecting and the different flavors of collecting that we get by talking to different collectors so thank you so much sean like i said and we'll see everybody next week thanks for having me