welcome back loyal listeners to the stacking slabs podcast to season five episode five of the wnba card podcast this season we've been doing something different around here we've been bringing on different types of collectors but they all have one thing in common they love their team and i am so excited us today for today's episode which is all focused on the newest team or what was the newest team at one point the golden state valkyries i've got mark on here from at ramjam sports cards i think he's got another account called valkyries card vault and he focuses on the golden state valkyries and a team that i love to watch just a competitive team out the gate and we're gonna be talking all about his collecting strategy what it means to collect an expansion or a new young franchise kinda what got you into it so mark if you don't mind introducing yourself to folks if they don't know who you are kinda shout out your instagrams or where they can find you and then we can get into it well hello and first i just wanna say thank you caitlin love the podcast i've been a first time long time listener so you're doing an awesome job with this and i'm really happy to be on my name is mark haymauer i am from the east bay of california that's where i live currently i've been there living there for about twenty years and obviously a huge velcks fan but i go by ramdam sportscards which is named after my daughter ramona on instagram and then as you'd said i also have the valkyries card vault which i started a few months back just to highlight all my my valkyries collection so those are my my two instagram handles and i'm also ramdam sportscards on whatnot as well i do selling of some singles on whatnot awesome well i'm excited to kinda get into your fandom and your identity as a collector so why don't we start from the beginning i suppose were you always a wnba fan or did the valkyries kind of bring you in i kinda wanna hear your origins of how we how we found ourselves here yeah that's a it's a great question you know i was always a basketball fan of the mnba so i was a you know growing up a big charles barkley fan and i i actually like the bulls too and then moving out to the bay area the warriors but i was not honestly i did not watch the wnba as a kid it had started when i was probably in in high school i guess or a little bit before that maybe middle school not revealing my age but yeah it's i would i'm new to watching the wnba but like with anything when i do it i i kind of go in head first and a little bit nuts with it so while i am new to it i am all about it so you know that's that's that's my origins sounds good so i hear that you kinda said that you're from the east bay or at least that's where you live is that what drew you to the valkyrie specifically as a franchise because you know you've you can pick any team in the wmba it doesn't matter where you live where you're from you can really just have whoever you want but you went with the valkyries what kind of stood out for you that that kind of drew you into them you know being having moved from the great state of wisconsin where you're also from know you know i'm a a packers fan and somehow i became a chicago cubs fan and moving out i i did take on the warriors but it never felt like it was you know my team because i didn't you know i didn't grow up in the bay area and i didn't just i didn't really have that connection so when this new team was coming out and and i had the ability to kind of start right at the ground floor where the you know this brand new franchise i just it just was very appealing and exciting to me nice so let's kinda get into how you would rank your fandom it sounds like you have some different teams that you root for we'll ignore the cubs part we'll say yes to the factors part but let's focus on the valkyries if you were to say one was kind of a casual observer but you know you support them because they're your local team that's one and ten is like you're a super fan you're wearing those those masks that they have in the stands like that's ten like that's crazy where would you rank yourself oh well if masks are ten then i definitely can't go i'm not a mask guy but you know i would definitely say an eight or a nine you know i don't miss i i can't unfortunately afford to go to every valkyrie's game i do get to go to a lot of games but you know i haven't missed a game on tv since they've started so i and as far as my collection that's that's what it is now so i would say an eight or a nine k that's a really good transition to my next question is kind of a collection of yours you kinda kinda hinted at it with the two instagram accounts but you've got a wnba collection and you have a valkyries collection at what point did it kinda shift for you to say okay i like the wnba and i'm gonna collect wnba cards but my focus is gonna be the valkyries you know that that that shift was when donaris finally came out know there was an announcement and i felt like probably this time of year last year that i was coming out and you know being new to i collected mainly baseball cards the last few years so it was more on the fanatics top side and their release schedule's a little tighter than panini's versus like we'll throw it at the wall whatever you know so once donner's finally came out and i wanna say like october that's when it was like okay there are cards and i i i had shared on my instagram it was a little disappointing because i didn't know that they would be like cards with them and their other uniforms and like the little traded on the the side to golden state but nonetheless it was like when that that donaris collection came out that was like i i'm all in i finally have my team transitioning into their own uniforms they're not wearing other uniforms and and that that was the exciting part is is where that transition happened the concept of cards not being available for your team is like heartbreaking to me and that's not even me trying to be dramatic like i think as card collectors we can all understand that this is serious business and like if you were to tell me yeah you can collect the links but they're all gonna be in chicago sky uniforms or you know new york liberty uniforms or something like that i would be pissed so like the patients we'll get into kind of like your approach and how you handle that but the patients exercised and kind of that whole entire problem we'll we'll get into that but i can't imagine it sounds it sounds tough it definitely was yeah i bet so i wanna ask you because when you're talking about a new franchise there's not necessarily this you know large history to go back on there's not a long list of players that you can go back and collect before because there was no before it's just today and so when you think about the valkyrie's franchise at least to date do you feel more connected to the team identity of we are the golden state valkyries or is it the individual players as well that you feel connected to you know that's it's kind of a a cheap answer but i would say a little bit of both you know it was pretty special watching you know those players break training camp last year and you knew that like that was your first team those were your players and there was you know every team you know you get emotionally connected to the players but when it's like there are no others they weren't traded here they were this is where they started yeah and you guys watch them grow it it was pretty it was like watching a kinda like watching a family you know as a cohesive unit it was pretty cool but then you know as as it moves on it does become more about like the franchise because you get excited about winning and it's like oh those are great players but we wanna you know we wanna take it up the next level so maybe someday we can beat the lynx once yeah it's a little i won't rub it in i won't rub it in we'll just let that one sit there no i i can do it to myself in my own team that's funny so this kinda brings me to another question that i have for you which is being an expansion team the fan base is obvious not only is the team still taking shape despite the fact that they're seeing lots of early success and they're a very competitive team even though they're first year but anyways the team is taking shape kinda the culture is taking shape but the fan base as well right because this is like people who the bay kind of loves basketball i mean they show up for the warriors you see kind of the basketball culture in the bay area but if you had to describe the valkyries fan base specifically how would you kinda describe them what is it like being a valkyries fan you know i just there's some for some reason the unity is just insane you know even though it's a new team you you go walking into the chase center from those side streets and just seeing everyone pour in it it's it's it's really special and it really started the first game you know it's it's the the energy that that is behind the team but then has not really ceased even though there have been some pretty low points already i mean they're jam packing the chase center every home game i mean i think it's like twenty eight or twenty nine straight sellouts but that energy that that that the you know the fans have is is really special i would say yeah the the thing that i like remember seeing is you know i i feel like i collect these infographic of stats around the wnba and it's whenever it's fan attendance the valkyries are always dominating those graphics it's it's quite not surprising i'm not surprised by the bay area's commitment to women's basketball but just take away the location and just put new franchise winning like that is crazy to me to see the amount of people that are showing up so yeah the energy the crowd pops in golden state seem to feel different than elsewhere maybe that's just like the taste center acoustics but something about the crowd pops there is is something special so i hear that and a question that i've been asking each guest that we have on and i plan to ask all of them is if you had to describe the franchise in three words or less one could you do it and two if you could what would you choose wow three words i would say the first word would be like trailblazing you know they they started they're not the first obviously expansion team but the way they're doing it is is really impressive the the ownership group you know gruber and joe lakup the warriors ownership group they have really lined things up and are doing i'm sure other teams are following the model like you know you you don't wanna get into the nerdy business side but like the valuation of the team itself it's it's crazy and i'm sure you know it wasn't like people as i just mentioned it's not like people trickling in they they they were there day one it's because of how they you know that this franchise kind of started i would say united would be another word the the the fans it's welcoming maybe not to opposing players or teams but you know as a fandom you know you feel really welcome there it's it's not like a uncomfortable place sometimes you go to you know sporting events and there can be little hostility even from you know your own you know fans so that would be a a piece they're welcoming in in in united and then ambitious you know they they they're going they've made the playoffs in the first year you know they didn't care about like tanking and getting a draft pick they they they they're taking off and you know they're not there yet but it is cool to see that they're not just you know we'll just sit around and wait for a draft pick and then you know kind of market off that or or try to center around a draft pick so that's been cool yeah one hundred percent i'd agree with those three and i have two comments the first is to cultivate a positive sentiment around ownership in professional sports is no small feat i feel like everybody complains about their owners or always has like the first words out of their mouth are almost never positive which you know i love keeping our owners as you know holding them accountable as much as we can but it really does feel like the valkyrie's fandom has appreciated the amount of investment time resources that the owners have put into building franchise and you can see it in like you said the win column making a first playoff appearance is very impressive in your first year it just kinda stinks of who you had to go up against otherwise i think you guys woulda had like a shot i mean those games were not not all of them were blowouts and it it was a competitive game and i think that also speaks to my second point which is i remember when the expansion draft happened and i i don't recall who said it maybe it was tammy or somebody else but they're basically saying you know we're kind of a a team of six man or six womens and i think that that mentality of just being scrappy but also understanding that you know when we come together and bring all these talented players that maybe weren't given a shot elsewhere you can build a a really respectful like really competitive team so i think those three words kind of drive home those points and i just wanted to add my thoughts there to close out the personal fandom and identity first segment i've been asking everybody these like you know broad questions about personal fandom about describing their franchise from their perspective but i i wanna close it out by asking you more broadly if we could zoom out to just women's sports in general a lot of the season has been focused around community building that's kinda how we kicked off the season was talking about how important it is to give you know niche spaces and their voices amplification so i wanna ask you when you remove the valkyries from the equation and you're just looking at women's sports in general what does it kinda mean for you to be a women's sports fan and a wnba fan more broadly yeah you know there's two pieces to that for me you know being a a girl that i think it's important for me and a the whatever just a a father to to my my son you know my son and daughter need to see that there there is there's a lot of value in women's sports but like beyond that it's just good basketball like it's having watched basketball having played basketball you know through high school and then just watching basketball forever like i not even just conceding the fact oh you know that women's sports is important to follow and support it's it's good product and i think that's what i'm trying to do when i am supporting the valkyries is trying to show and convert people to to watch it with me and realize that this is amazing basketball so there's you know those two pieces for me yeah it sounds a lot like we had a guest on steve who collects the sun and he talked a lot about kind of the connection between him and his kids and the importance of passing down that kind of understanding around you know women's sports being worth watching and that you don't need to justify watching it that the product is worth it and communicating that to your kids and it sounds like we've got a lot of good parents in the hobby that are kind of pushing that agenda as well which makes me very happy so like i said to steve on his episode i wish you know we like all i kinda had that as a kid because my dad was into sports but i wish all my friends had that experience too and i think we'd see a lot more accelerated i don't know fandom and stuff from kids so glad to know that you're doing the work on the groundwork mark thank you let's kinda pivot away from personal fandom and into what we're here to talk about today which is the cards i wanna talk to you about your collecting philosophy a lot of us kinda have approaches to how we collect different parts of our collection so if we zoom into just the valkyries do you kinda have a solidified approach or are you just picking up what you can find well you know that is already funny enough in the whatever year or so it's already shifted and that was kind of out of what was out there right we had kind of talked about that earlier but i am not and i i know you've spoken about panini instant like panini instant is not something i get very excited about but that's what i had last year like so if panini instant was out you know i was going on that drop and i was getting my panini instant with my players in a valkyrie uniform but it's so funny because it's like i am not it's just not something i would normally do so the the shift has now finally become you know once impeccable came out where they're in you know donarus was there as we said there were a few players in valkyrie's uniforms or airbrushed or whatever but once impeccable came out that that that allowed me to really shift instead of just like fire hosing like oh there's a card with a valkyrie i'm getting it and then i had everything but now it's more much more refined and generally as a collector that's that's where i get i get i get a little unfocused and then i kinda look into my collection it's like oh my gosh there is way too much here and then i kind of you know shift on how i i what i consider part of the pc or part of the collection as i move on let's kinda dive into kind of that refinement strategy that you talk about i know for me i have certain rules that i set out and you know sometimes i bend them or even break them but i put them there as kind of a guardrail so that i'm not just taking in everything that's drinking from the fire hose as you alluded to do you have any kind of like personal guardrails or rules that when you do look at kind of you spread out all your cards on the ground and you're thinking yourself there's too many here how do you decide which ones are staying versus which ones are leaving well so it's it's i do have a problem like i need one card of every valkyrie's player so right now that's pretty easy yeah that's doable yeah it's not that big and like the checklist haven't been that that crazy yet as far as how many players but like my correct guardrails really are you know to me they have to feel pretty special or you know low numbered cards definitely and i i prefer an auto right but the low numbered cards to me just because they they just they're hard to get they're you know they're they're just a little more special than than the higher print runs or just yeah but but i would say that and and then i really like i i've too love prism like that's my that's my jam so if i can find a prism card that would also be it but really the the biggest thing is keeping it load numbered and just i really like your approach your your six pack approach where it's like you know you're you you have your more i guess it's more than six players but more the idea that you just have one or like one or two really nice cards of each player and that's really what i've been doing as far as my guard rails i think it's a good approach to take and and like i said there's always room to bend and break these rules that's kind of like you know brett's whole thing is like ceo of your pc and i think that you know being able to make those decisions and say okay well now we have an exception here is totally fine and i think to your point trying to understand how each collector's definition of quote unquote special differs is something i'm very interested in and just because of the limited amount of like history that like a valkyries fan has to lean on the limited number of releases all of these things that come together your definition of special might be completely different than say a mercury collector who has years and years and years to think about what's special and so i kinda wanna ask you when you look across your collection what are kind of the the through lines or what kind of ties it together is it certain players is it certain sets are there certain i know even some people collect like photos that are on the card of a game that they went to or they remind them of a moment in time kinda what kinda draws it together aside from the serial number aspect yeah so it really is the like it's more that i i am able to collect every player and i i would love to see how long i can keep that going financially but yeah i would say the thing that ties it all together is these are all valkyrie's players in valkyrie's uniforms and that is also kind of special that it's nearly impossible for a lot of other collectors to be able to do that unless you know they have a a you know a pretty healthy credit card line that that's been that's pretty cool i would say that makes sense and we kinda touched on the next question that i had lined out but i guess if you wanted to talk a little bit more about what changed in your collection i kinda wanna hear your mentality not necessarily like you know this card went and this card came or something like that but just how your mentality shifted for me when i think about how my collection evolved it's almost like one night i went to bed and the next morning i woke up and i said i don't need all these cards i want better quality cards like it just was a light bulb did you have kind of a mentality shift at all or what happened yeah i would say it's the same it it's it's it's for me it was just like you know what i don't really need every like high number you know i don't need twenty veronica burton donroz cards because i don't even really like donroz cards that much but yeah so it's basically like one day it doesn't seem like a great idea anymore you know and then it's like okay well i'm going to shift that to you know what i'm currently doing so yeah it it wasn't like a gradual thing and and just as a collector over time i it's kind of the same way i'm just it's like oh you know what i i it's just a a pretty sudden shift and that's that's how it was with this collection as well it's so interesting i completely agree like it it feels almost like i to use the word life changing is also dramatic here but once again i think we're speaking to people that understand the gravity of collecting and what it means to us so like i'm gonna use it but the day that i decided i don't need every card of whoever x player was life changing for my collection collection changing i suppose would be a better word and so that learning process i think is instrumental to every collector especially newer collectors who are getting into it but if you had to give advice to somebody who's new to team collecting or somebody that you know maybe they're a fan of the portland team or the toronto team like a newer franchise what advice would you give to somebody that's looking to team collect like that it's a great question you know i i would say be patient you know it's okay to have to to have some sort of connection to to the cards but like if you're just buying like i was like if you're just buying cards just through excitement it it general you generally will come up with a bunch of cards you don't really want or don't really have that much connection to you know maybe the first card but like if you just keep piling them up it i i find it hard to believe that it's like oh i need that big stack so i would say just practice patience wait for those checklists to come out and then wait six more months until the actual product comes out and then start collecting on that end but you know just pump the brakes i would say much easier said than done as we both can can say from experience so completely understand everybody anybody out there who's new to collecting in general i think patience is the number one thing i wish i could tell myself and it's like you literally have to hit yourself over the head with it every single time you go to a show every time you log on to ebay like patience will reward you in the long run but in the short term you're gonna feel a little constricted you're like i'm not having this mail day every day now i'm not having this excitement of opening a new card or hitting a new card in a break and that patience i truly believe will result in a stronger collection down the road so i think that's a perfect piece of advice i wanna shift kinda to an interesting aspect of what it means to collect an expansion franchise and we've hit on this in the beginning that you know there's not a script of history that the valkyries have to kind of lean on and when i talk about emotionally collecting a team a lot of people default or you know reference this concept of nostalgia i want to connect to when dt came into the league i want to connect to you know x y z year when i started following the wnba or when my team came but for a team like the valkyries there is not really any opportunity for nostalgia for yearning for a past time because there is no past time so when you think about collecting such a new franchise what kinda creates that emotional attachment to the cards if it's not nostalgia you know i think it's more it's almost like you're i would imagine i'm not a scrapbooker but it's almost like creating a scrapbook in real time you know like you're creating like a little history book of what's going on as you collect and i think that to me is really special so it's you know there there haven't been a lot of huge moments in valkyrie's basketball you know i i don't even think i'm pretty sure we yeah there has not even been a game winner yet like you know a a buzzer beater for me it's like just being able to collect those you know in the connection with those players and being able to it's like a baby book almost like oh this is like our little franchise when we started in year one and so that's that's really how i look at it is i'm able to you know really connect to how it started and keep looking at that scrapbook as i i go on through the years it's a really interesting dynamic because because when i think about like my personal wnba fandom with the links i feel like i'm almost forced to not forced but like i feel like i have to look back in my collection and pay respect to those that came before and so then i'm have limited choices i can only have so many cards so many things and i want those kind of moments or you know legacy players in represented in my collection but for you for somebody who's collecting a newer franchise you almost have more to work with because you don't have to go back in time and you can live in the moment and like collect completely looking forward and that is like very unique to me i think to be in that position i have not experienced it before so it's very interesting to think about it it's almost like a completely foreign concept do you kind of relate to the way that i'm describing that or is that not how it feels no absolutely that it it is it's it's it's it's a totally different approach and it's really just because there isn't that history you you you can't go back and collect the you know pay respect to the legends and yeah totally and that's why caitlin i think you know you can definitely shift to becoming a valkyrie's fan you're you're excited it cut the mics cut his mic right now no i'm just kidding but when you think about that approach to collecting for the valkyries as opposed to maybe some of the other teams or players that you collect or different segments of cards that you collect have you found it to be more enjoyable that way or is i i'm just curious about you know the enjoyment factor of collecting like that yeah no it it it is enjoyable that's kind of how i collected my other sports though too i didn't i often would collect those players that i was just really you know like every like that's not surprising but like i would definitely be drawn to you know this player had a really exciting season and i'm really i that's that was my connection to it so it wasn't that far of a leap and and it is i do enjoy doing that so it yeah it's been it's been cool yeah i know it we we talked on like the last season about era collecting and this season we're doing team collecting and i just always find it interesting when you talk to folks that kinda live in these different brett brett and his in stacking slabs has talked about it kind of as neighborhoods it's like you gotta find your neighborhood in collecting and then you gotta find your street and then you gotta find your home and i think that the neighborhood of folks who are collecting presently meaning they're watching something and then they're creating their fandom and they're collecting philosophy after that as opposed to say like vintage card collectors who are quite literally living in the past like they're looking back a hundred sometimes even two hundred years at cards those neighborhoods feel completely different it's like a a totally different world and so when we get into the mind of emotionally collecting i'm just this is just so interesting to me so i just i'll close it out there but i just find it to be a completely foreign concept and to hear somebody talking about it is very interesting to me but i'll shift us away from this and kinda move on i wanna ask you you talked about how there's not been a huge moment in valkyrie's franchise history yet but are there any cards that bring you back to maybe a moment that's personal to you or a moment that might not be big for the rest of the franchise but was big in your mind you know some of those panini instant cards because i i i was at the game i was fortunate to go to the the the first game against the sparks you know that was a big one you know the the moments when chachi missed that shot against the links that was another big moment you know and there are the the instant cards related to those i would say is is is those those real connections but you know a lot of i i guess it's more for me just to not around moments as much as the around the players and my feeling around the the players and probably a culmination of many different moments throughout the season yeah that makes sense this question is i threw this question and i haven't asked any of the other collectors or guests this yet but i'm very excited to hear your thoughts on it if market value meaning the monetary value of your cards disappeared tomorrow and we just woke up and they're not worth any money which card would you look at and say this one you means the most to me you know mark remove market value as a factor in the equation which one kinda calls to yeah that i that's the one i had shared with you i have a a veronica burton one of one black hollow from donris and that card to me is special because i veronica burton was the player and still is she's she's my favorite player on the team love her and janelle salon gabby williams for later she's great too but anyways but starting the the year and you know the the stories behind vb are much more amplified now which is great but watching this player who had basically been cut she's on her third team you know and you had mentioned it's like these these people who are generally coming off the bench or a little later in their careers and veronica burton took over and became a prominent point guard and she was the player that you know myself and my family we all we all love veronica burton so this card being a the one of one from the first set you know it is a little wonky because she has the sun uni on which is weird but because donris was the first real wnba set with valkyrie's cards and it is my favorite player that would be the card for me i'm just looking at it and it's it's so interesting to see her in that connecticut sun uniform but luckily you still get kind of a color match going on here so that's kind of a plus from the design elements i guess do you kinda have a story of how this card was acquired did it just pop up did it how did it land in your collection you know it's it's it it just it was an ebay battle it it was one that i just i just when it came up i had to have it it was really the first one of one from that set even that i saw and because it was burton i i i just had to go after it but yeah just your your typical ebay i'm gonna make this mine and i'll have to fill a few more cards on on whatnot to to cover it around on ebay but yeah nothing too crazy now it's been cool you know you see these on cards i think you can see on there he he's a friend of mine who's a a valkyries collector and then card collector my pal will you know and others will send one of ones or other low numbered stuff to me but this was pretty early on i i don't remember when i first got it probably november so that you know as far as valkyrie's collecting i wasn't getting a lot of tms like hey check this out don't don't this so this was more just on my you know my nightly ebay scrolling love it i'm so glad this one ended up in your collection i've been looking at donrus cards a lot and the thing that i like about this release of donrus is those little i don't even know what you would call them they're like stripes that almost penetrate the photo from the bar from the border of the card when you hit the hit those in the right light there's something special that happens with the technology that they implemented on those despite being a paper card they really do have a nice shine to them when you have this in person do you kinda do you look at it and like nerd out with it or does it kinda sit somewhere special where where does it live yeah i i keep it with they're warm and cozy in in my peloton case i do pull it out often you know my wife will make fun of me that i'm oh here he goes nerding out again i gotta throw all my cards but yeah no it is there but i would agree you know the the paper just the base paper are not very fun but when you see the parallels they're nice cards and as you mentioned the fact that she is that she's wearing a black uniform helps quite a bit i i don't know if if it would have had the same appeal to me had she been wearing an orange uniform but that is the color match and it it there are valkyries jerseys that are black that helps as well so yeah my final note on this card and what why i think it might appeal to a valkyries collector more so despite the fact that it's not in a valkyries uniform is because it doesn't say on the front of the jersey huge connecticut sun either right like it's not like inherently advertising for another team because of the way that the sun uniforms are designed so that's kinda like another added of why it might feel more palpable compared to say if veronica burton was in like a bright orange sun jersey right agreed alright let's move on away from that and get back into our questions i kinda wanna ask you about how your collecting experience differs when you're collecting a team that maybe i don't know i wanna hear about kind of the reward factor you're collecting a team that doesn't have a lot of history like we were saying they're kinda writing it in their own time what's been like the most rewarding part of that approach and that experience compared to say collecting a team that already has a ton of history i know you talked about kind of the scrapbooking aspect etcetera but specifically around procuring cards finding cards discovering what you wanna keep in your collection what's been the most rewarding part of that you know probably being like a valkyries hipster like i'm in the valkyries before it was cool because it is pretty we're it's still pretty niche like there aren't a lot but like i it is fun like you know when i can go into basically any whatnot stream and ask for the valkyries and you know obviously people always go after rookies like they'll they'll still collect some caitlyn chen and there's still a huge kate martin following even though she's not on the valkyries but her cards are but it is nice to be able to go in there and and not really have a lot of competition generally and yeah you know then you get the attention and usually are able to connect to some pretty cool stuff so that's been fun speaking of cool stuff let's get into the personal grail segments it's probably my favorite segment of this season so far which is where we pull up one card that you know the a collector thinks kind of best represents your team fandom so you sent me one over while i'm pulling it up why don't you describe what it is and why you chose this one well this is yeah this is funny because i had just railed on panini instant you know i surprise am a nerd and there's this card is a cheyenne sellers draft night twenty twenty five draft night one of one i think it's a mag magma or something like that i don't know what they call that parallel but it's the one of one of cheyenne sellers and i like i've always been drawn to kind of kind of weirder collecting sometimes so for a while i collected baseball cards that where they got gatorade baths so i had like a hundred and fifty gatorade bath baseball cards which is like weird i like the weirdness of this card because cheyenne sellers never actually played for the valks she didn't make it through training camp but she was know our second draft pick she was the seventeenth pick and the reason i'm really tied to this card is i'm pretty sure it's the first card in production of a valkyrie's card like i don't think there were any made before this right so the draft night were the cards and this is the one of one of the the first valkyries card so that's why it would be my grell card so you know and it there is something funny that it's a panini instance to me and it's it's it's that's why it's my grell card i love that story i was i was not expecting to see cheyenne sellers for the personal grill segment but i am pleasantly surprised with the story behind it did you win this at the panini instant site or did you pick this up aftermarket no i want it on ebay okay it and it's it it kinda goes back to that the the the fun of not really having a lot of competition out there you know it was up there and i threw an offer and they accepted it it was pretty easy peasy i love that that's such a cool card i really like the concept of kind of like first produced card for a franchise that's something that not a lot of people can claim like you think about how many professional teams exist and cards being produced at their inception it's gotta be a low number of cards that you can definitively say that about so i think that's really powerful and i really like that i've never heard of somebody collecting like that before so that's really cool mark okay let's move on to community culture and kind of environment surrounding the valkyries so you said you're local to the team in the bay area how much of your fandom kind of is tied to the valkyries themselves versus the idea of just like finally having a team in the bay area you know there there is a little bit of both but i i think it's just the valkyries like i am i love this team yeah so you know i i would say that's the bigger part of it having a team in the area was big as i had shared earlier and and having finally having a connection to to a team like a a a real connection to a team so that i you know it's a little bit of both yeah do you think the bay area kinda culture and vibe it's very distinct i feel like you can see bay area collectors or bay area fans and you can pick them out at card shows or you can pick them out elsewhere do you think that that culture is kinda influencing the identity of the valkyries and if you wanna take it further to collecting to collectors of the valkyries yeah you know the the bay area culture is is rich and people are very proud of where they come from and you know you know now where i live you know before the fourth quarter of every game they give a shout out to every area of the bay area people go nuts you know so it is there's a lot of pride people take pride in in that and i think you know the excitement of having a new team and then also just the pride of the region i think that's amplified it at card shows you know as i've i've kind of touched on earlier there isn't a lot of there aren't a lot of valkyries collectors i've only put up i've only had one or two table no two i think tables i don't generally do cartoons but i go to a lot of them and really there there still unfortunately is not you'll see people wearing valkyries gear there but as far as you know you don't see like a a table with a whole bunch of valkyrie's cards it's still mainly your caitlin clarkson your your page becker's at the the shows that makes sense just that from like a pure availability standpoint the concept of procuring an entire showcase of valkyrie's card is no small feat so i understand probably why it's a little more scarce but hopefully soon once we see production ramp up in terms of just like years of valkyrie's cards existing that will become more i don't know prevalent at your local card shows i wanna ask you about i'm gonna come back to the rivals question but i wanna ask you first about social media with the rise of social media not only have we seen it contribute to the rise of popularity of the league itself but i think it's helped a lot of collectors find each other particularly on instagram do you feel like you're part of a valkyrie's movement maybe not in person for collecting but online have you found other folks or do you kinda feel like you're carving your own space you know i don't wanna say i'm i'm not doing anything big here i don't think i'm carving a space necessarily but i yeah i don't think there's unfortunately a huge community yet and that could just be partially me needing to do a better job of that but yeah so it it's pretty pretty small at this point i do you know being on whatnot has been really cool i've i've run-in chrissy sports as a friend of mine on on whatnot she's a bay area friend of mine and i've i've run into some people that way but you know instagram there's a a few great collectors out there but it it's very still very small yeah i think part of that is that you know we don't have we don't have a superstar you know we didn't tank for a draft pick you know we don't have az or page you know selling i i think it would be much much different if that was the case especially on the the you know hot i mean you know that how how much these rookies really drive the excitement of like non w collectors mhmm so with not having that and having more vets or or you know these six six woman players it it it's not probably pulling people into that card community as quickly as if it would having those players we talked a lot about patience and maybe this is a good time to reiterate that that organic growth is probably and being patient about that organic growth of the community is probably gonna be good long term because you're gonna pull in collectors that want to be there and want to be there to stay so i'd hope that the community grows and you know once we publish this if there are any valkyries fans out maybe you guys can connect because great i know that they're out there i know you guys are out there it's just you know finding each other which is always a process another part of community i think personally this is my opinion is rivalries i think it's important to have teams that maybe you don't love that there's a little bad blood it creates a sense of competition and it's creates a sense of community i think it's across sports across leagues with the valkyries being so brand new do you think they have any rivals yet or do you personally have any rivals as a fan of the valkyries you know it's it's it's pretty hard to like flex when you're not that great like we're okay right like i i i love the valkyries but i'm also realistic as far as the order of basketball and the w and while you know i think it is a strong team it it's hard to it's hard to pretend that we can create these really strong rivalries this early like with the other side really caring about the valkyries like i care a lot but does the other side so but as far as you know what i've seen you know in recently as as you know it's it's probably gonna be if they ever get better it would be against the links but when you can't beat them you can't have a rivalry this is so i think every episode of people i've talked to have included the lynx in their rivalries after you that's like a i feel attacked on my podcast everybody wants to rival against the lynx and i'm just over here like i don't know maybe maybe there'll be rivalries i guess we'll see but i do think there is something to be said about like the underdog of it all that kind of mentality of the valkyries and kind of like trying to overcome a team that's always kind of since their inception has been a block for them no doubt the law of averages says at some point you guys will beat us i can admit that but i think that is a good starting point i'd be curious to see if there ever is a regional regional rivalry that the valkyries forage against maybe a peer in the west if you had to pick one which one would you think is gonna like permeate or last that's a great question naturally you'd you'd hope it'd be the sparks because we have that you know well i'm not a fan of either team it's the giants and the dodgers in baseball but like having a northern southern california deal would be pretty i mean that would make sense but then there you know i do see you know the storm you know being a like you're saying with a west coast deal i could see that happening and and they're kind of you know they'll be interesting to see but it it like like we had mentioned it's it's pretty difficult at this point but yeah i would say hopefully the sparks that would be a good one mhmm okay i like that i kinda moved to away from community and more towards the players on the valkyries i know we've reiterated now that it's early and i'm asking you these questions that maybe are harder to answer but if you had to pick out the foundational players so you have a smaller pool to work with here so it should be a easier question but the foundational figures of valkyrie's basketball could you try to carve out a way too early mount rushmore for me of four players okay a mount rushmore of four players well i would have to have veronica burton on there duh you know as we've already talked about and she really is having a great season she slowed down a little bit that could get into a lot of more nerdy basketball talk but she they're i think they're overusing her a little too much but either way she would be on there i think tip hayes you know she she was a legend coming in you know point scorer and and she's been i i just love her tenacity she's just a hardheaded player and i i really like her and a leader on the team even though she's coming off the bench now that would be probably my second my third kayla thornton she was our she was our all star pick she had a great year going last year unfortunately she blew her knee out but foundational she was the the first all star and you know she's coming back strong this year the fourth one that that's a little hard this one's kind of more on the collector side or maybe not like it's on also the reddit side of of the vox i'm going to say kate martin and i'm going to say that because there is some sort of like crazy connection people have with kate martin it's the iowa thing it's maybe the caitlin clark thing i don't know you know i she was a great she was fun to watch on social media and definitely seemed like a really great teammate but the reason i put her there is people's undying devotion to kate martin and being like a like a six minute off the bench player was crazy and like when she got traded it was when i said reddit like it was ugly so i think there's that connection i think kate martin will quickly probably i would shift to gabby williams but i'm not gonna add a fifth head to that mount rushmore that is so interesting the concept of kate martin being out of mount rushmore but i i do i think if you look at the prices and i have not checked but if you look at those three players i or those four players you mentioned i would bet kate martin outsells all of them despite not even being on the team so there is something to be said something credible in your hypothesis there and the kate martin effect seems to be some sort of psychosis that takes over wherever she goes whether it be iowa like you're saying or golden state or when even when she was in vegas there was this like buzz and i think we talked about the rise of social media i think that has something to do with it she's a prominent figure online she's you know very well liked she's easy to root for she's the prototypical marketable woman right like all these factors she has going for her then i think you could put her on the mount rushmore of the valkyries but i don't know i don't know about how other valkyries fans are gonna feel about hearing kate martin on their mount rushmore right now and i think i think it is important for me to note that she that that's my realistic interpretation that's not necessarily my fandom of yeah of what would be my mount rushmore but i think a lot it is people like kate they do they do when you think about what people are gonna like remember right we're we're one two years into the mount rushmore right now so obviously these players are gonna change over time what do you think people when people are looking back on this first chapter of franchise history do you think they'll remember which roster the like expansion team roster the people who actually took the court the first season that roster or whoever comes next in this kind of early years what do you think is gonna stand out when people look look back boy that's you know that's interesting i think probably that first roster that that made that started playing you know watching them grow together and then experience early success was pretty special it will be hard to tell though as as fans come in you know obviously they're not going to be as emotionally connected to players that they never even saw playing on the freeze right but i would say that that first team because it was it was cool and and you know no one expected them you know the ownership group expected them to be successful off the rip but i think fans you know if you watch any sport you know an expansion team generally is not very good yeah the excitement that really started to to simmer and boil when those those players did well together was was really special for sure and i wanna kinda talk about this idea you touched on it with being unexpected success underrated players we talked about the six woman mentality that a lot of these players brought to the team and it reminds me of my favorite metric that i have yet to quantify which is the disrespect index i wanna hear from you i feel like you could pick anybody on the valkyries and say that their play on the court does not equate to their market prices but if you had to pick one player to represent probably the highest score on the disrespect index who would you pick for the valkyries i'm gonna go with because i haven't really brought her up a whole lot as gabby williams that's a good one she is you know i've i had watched her the last few years but i am so impressed with her play you know she she came in as like oh she'll be a great defender and she'll she'll go well with the rest of the you know defense minded team but her they have let her go and she has been an amazing player and yeah i think she's undervalued i think she will be an all star pick i i don't know how she couldn't be she's an amazing player and you know her cards are affordable i don't buy them yet because she's not in that uniform but i think the market there is is you know i know she was really well loved it's not like a very low market but i think she is she's an all star and a a really great player and easy to root for like just seems like a cool person yeah when you add up the different factors that contribute to market price of a player obviously the number one thing that comes to mind when we talk about the disrespect index is on the court play and gabby is a perennial player like elite defender elite player a leader very under like underrated but another factor that's interesting is her reach she is a french player so she has an international collector base she played on the storm which has a mass at least from my perspective i feel like the storm has a massive fan base because of lauren jackson sue bird and the like and so when you add up on the on the court play plus the reach of her fandom it still is not equaling kind of the respect that we should be seeing in the market price kind of discussion so i think that that's a really good pick despite the fact that maybe her cards might be a little bit more expensive than players on other players on the valkyrie that proportion or that that doesn't make sense it still doesn't equate so i think that's a really good pick yeah and i think you could probably apply that equation to nearly every player in the wnba you know i also like asia wilson and it's like what what what are we doing here people you know so outside of those two rookies i think the disrespect index is is rampant yeah we're gonna have to like put some sort of control on it otherwise it's just gonna be massive yeah for sure one day i'm gonna get around to quantifying it folks like one day i'm going to do it it's just i need to like figure out math and then do all the things around it but one day we'll be able to do it and we'll sift through this season to pick out everybody's team's picks of the disrespect index to see if perception equals analytics so stay tuned okay so my my final question around this segment is if you had to preserve kind of the story of early valkyrie's fandom through say one to three cards which cards would you choose and why and does it differ then from what you're picking up does it differ from what the sales are saying kinda how does it align to reality that's a great question you know if there were one to three cards i would say you know this is one i haven't picked up yet but another very well supported player with a she i guess she doesn't have a limited role but a fairly small she's a back point card caitlin chen yeah her is it the next day i believe it's the next day autos out of downers which are on card i think is a that's a pretty special card because that's like the first valkyries i'm big into first you know i kinda mentioned that earlier but the the first valkyries on card auto out of donris that would be one i would select and then probably a veronica burton card out of impeccable just because again she's in the uniform that was the first set that it was you know all all the valkyries in that checklist were in their uniforms on the traded and the third would obviously have to be my one of one cheyenne sellers obviously i like that pick a lot and i think it's interesting to kinda get the take of somebody who i i don't wanna say purist because i don't mean it like that it's like correct or wrong or right there's a right way to do it but from somebody who values the valkyrie's jersey on the card i think it'd be interesting to hear from a collector that maybe doesn't think that way they would probably put in say a prism gold rookie of one of those players and i think we could exchange them so it's so interesting to hear kind of the differences within a fan base you can get so many different flavors of collecting if you had to think about you know let's fast forward twenty years from now what do you think collectors are gonna determine to be like the must have first season valks card is it one of the three that you mentioned or is it something different oh you know i don't know if it would be i'm going to go it's actually it wouldn't be the it would be a player from the first season but it would be a janelle salon low numbered card i she's my along with veronica burton my other favorite player and i collect her heavily i do think she's going to be an amazing player in the wnba she keeps getting better but i think you know twenty years from now she started as a a rookie on the tee that first year and i think one of her you know nice low numbered prism cards would be would be connected with that first season yeah i think she screams opportunity to me as somebody who drafted her in her fan in my fantasy league i believe in salon a lot i think her frame her obviously she's young i think there's a lot of room for improvement from a very good starting point so i like that pick i i feel like we're getting a lot of names that maybe wouldn't be mentioned if you're not talking to a valkyries fan you know so they they usually just see like kate martin yeah and veronica burton let's get a little deeper here and i i really like these names that we've called out alright our last segment for the episode we're gonna round it out with kinda talking about hobby and market perspective when you think about yourself as a valkyries collector today the way i've been phrasing it in past episodes is kind of this food chain analogy you got your top dogs which i think everybody understands from a market perspective is probably the fever probably where those big rookies are going with like the wings and stuff and then the bottom is you know whatever team you wanna put there i'm not gonna give any examples don't hurt anything where would you put yourself in the wnba food chain today yeah we would be the minnow we we're very i'm i'm i'm humble i understand like we are we are not a a top dog on that that food chain for sure we're we're we're on the low end of it i'm surprised that you say that like i wouldn't put the valkyries low i wouldn't like something about them i think like it's just diff it's almost like they they exceeded expectations so much that they earned a spot that isn't the minnow so i maybe put them up a little bit higher but the humbleness is i do like that i do like that thanks yeah no i think i think if you look at on a a basketball just perspective but from the collecting side yeah still pretty new so it's it's yeah you're you're you're still growing i guess the the middle will get bigger but right now it's pretty small right okay do you think collectors are embracing the franchise the way that you expected or has the hobby response whether that be how many people you find how many cards you find has it has it surprised you at all you know it has surprised me a little i thought there would be a little i thought the community would be a little bigger yeah and maybe that's just me not finding those spots yet but and i hopefully after this i will have more like you had said but you know i i as i had said earlier i think because there isn't the superstar and there isn't those big name rookies it it it was kind of destined to be a slow deal because you really have to be pulling in the fan you know the the fan of the team versus maybe a w fan and the other way around just because like it just because there aren't those cards that are from a collector standpoint that people will probably be like oh i'm really interested in the valkyries because of the these these players like you have to be a a fan of the team and be like i'm gonna start collecting these players because yeah i like the team so i think that was part of it when we talk about pulling in certain people and what attracts people to certain cards or certain players with the valkyries obviously it's not like a big name rookie but when i think about when i like i'm like thinking about it currently what comes to mind are like these advanced analytics stat nerds i feel like that is like the group that the valkyries need to target because veronica burton is like the advanced analytic god like if you look at her statistics she is producing at a highly efficient rate and i think that if we're looking at different segments i suppose of archetypes of collectors the one that screams out to me as opportunity of what could come in is those advanced analytic reddit stats nerds for sure bring on the nerds write another one with me which which makes it also contributes to kind of the bay area i don't know i don't know what you wanna call it like economic situation of the bay area of just like the booming tech people like that kind of vibe i think that if i were to think about where you could grow the collector base it would be those types of people i don't know maybe not maybe i'm just speaking out of my ass but i no i i don't think so i i i would agree okay that's that's what i am so okay okay i wanna talk to you there's two more questions that i have the second the first one is we've all experienced this hike in prices as a result of the entrance of caitlin clark the entrance of names like paige becker's angel reese etcetera but the valkyries kinda came in at the same time so you guys didn't really have a quote unquote price hike because it's just when you started how has kind of your market experience been collecting valkyrie's cards in terms of prices like what what does that felt like to you as opposed to say someone who was collecting i don't know let me throw out a team the dream pre caitlin clark really cheap to pick up some of those folks relatively now prices have exploded what's the experience of somebody who came in at that explosion point yeah i mean you know the the prices i think in general were higher right like that that the yeah like clark brought up price of everything but still very affordable in my you know just coming from another coming from baseball and because people aren't going after non you know your vet cards yeah even though they're nice cards you know they're low numbered cards or they're autos or whatever like they're not very desirable for many people so there wasn't there and there still hasn't been a a ton of competition so i would say it was still very approachable i and but you know i'm sure much higher than you know when prism came out or you know in twenty twenty or whatever else so yeah that makes sense my final question for you on this segment before we get to rounding it out is what's kinda next for your collection we talked about how you're collecting in the present you're not necessarily looking back so you're always looking forward what are you trying to accomplish in the future for your valkyries collection yeah just you know it it is always evolving but the the idea that i just have something when i do pull out that collection and my wife makes fun of me is just one card from i would love a card from each player because it is that emotional connection from how they played on the court and the game that you you know you spend countless hours watching these games or looking at instagram or all the other spots where you you know follow your your team it's it's for me it's like having that one nice car that really as part of that that scrapbook and and continuing to have that as i move on and as those checklists expand with more of those players it's gonna be an increasingly difficult passage for you through that time i think like as more releases come as maybe licenses change eventually down the road we're gonna see that task become more and more difficult but for now i think you're doing a great job and i i believe in you mark i think you can do it and like i think it could be a really historic type of collection that gets built because it's just something different it's so hard to think about to look back on and try to do today for a different franchise i think if you start now it could be something really like you said special so we'll we'll we'll we'll stay tuned to see what happens with your collection but i suppose i wanna leave you space to kinda shout out where people can follow along on your journey of completing that if you just wanna tell people where they can find you how to contact you etcetera yeah you know ramdam sports cards is my main instagram with you know call all of my wnba collection and then i do have the valkyries card vault which is just strictly valkyries cards and then i do usually i do it's been a little limited lately but usually do once a week on whatnot it's a very low key i'm i'm the opposite of trying to sell stuff like i'm just there to hang out with people and yeah but like if you wanna find me on whatnot it's ram jam sports cards usually it's like a a weeknight show but yeah those are my spots awesome and then the last buzzer beater question for you and we can leave it here if someone is listening to this episode and they're undecided on which wnba team that they would like to root for could you make your elevator pitch for them to join you with the valkyries yeah okay elevator what floor are we choosing how much time do i be i would say so the valkyries you pick the valkyries because it is you can come in at the ground level talking about elevator that was an accident but you can come on the ground level of a franchise and you can watch it grow and be really part of something special and really be connected to every part of that growth and understand every intricacy and of of how that that franchise continues to expand so i think that for me would be the the most special part yeah for sure i think if i was coming in today and i was not a lynx fan this would be the team i would would choose so if that has any merit for people's elevator pitch as well i i think it's just a great team with a lot of bright future ahead so mark thank you so much for kind of explaining your collection explaining your fandom and hopefully this will lead to more valkyrie's collectors getting to know each other because i know you guys are out there if you guys don't follow mark at ramjam sports cards at valkyrie's card vault on instagram be sure to give him a follow mark thank you so much for joining today and listeners we will see you next episode