Welcome back, loyal listeners, to the stacking slabs podcast to season four episode one of the WNBA card podcast. My name is Katelyn. I'm your host for season four. I go by cold lunch cards on the Instagram machine and on other corners of the Internet as well. And I cannot lie.

I am so, so excited about this new journey we're about to go on together for season four. I'm joined today by my incredible cohost, Brett McGrath at Stacking Slabs, and we're excited to continue to deliver collector driven and community focused content to your headphones, to your radio, to wherever you're listening or viewing us today. We appreciate you being here, and we're excited to get started. Brett, how are you doing today? Season four.

Let's go. Letting the listeners in. Been looking at what Caitlin is building behind the scenes, and this is going to be awesome. It is going to be helpful. There's going to be some very knowledgeable people that are going to join the WNBA card podcast and share their insight.

This is something that I want to happen in other categories. So how about that? WNBA card podcast kinda setting the tone for where other content might be going in the future. So, Caitlin, I'm great. I'm excited to be here.

Maybe the the opening act. Thank you. In professional wrestling, they call it the curtain jerker. I'm just like the first act to warm up the crowd, but the main events are are plentiful, and they're coming soon. Absolutely.

We're excited to have Brett here today. Brett won't be here on every episode as the programming note like he just previewed. We'll have guests coming through each and every episode following this. But, Brett Brett, you won't be disappearing. I know you'll be joining us for maybe a mid season time out check-in as well as a final episode.

So Brett will not be leaving. He'll still be here. He's checking up on me in the meantime, but just super excited to be driving this, forward. And today's episode is focused all about how we got here, a WNBA card history. What we're gonna be talking about today is the intent of season four.

We're gonna reintroduce ourselves as collectors because we we might have new people joining us in season four because of the fact that this is more of a chronology. So I'm excited to to kick off or so I suppose more fittingly, to tip-off, season four episode one. But why don't we kind of welcome in the season by saying that, you know, this this season is going to be different. You listen to our final episode of season three, we previewed this idea that we're gonna have different guests on that are gonna narrate, the history of the WNBA and its cards from before the league started and formed all the way up to today. So that, hopefully, if you're new to collecting or if you're looking to explore more, dive deeper beyond the surface of WNBA cards, we can explore new perspectives from different people in the hobby.

And so I'm just really excited about fact that this isn't gonna be a report of what's hot this week. It's not gonna be, you know, a a record of sales data. It's about how we got here and where we're going. And to kind of establish that before we get into it, I think, Brett, we should do, introductions of ourselves and our own personal collecting journey, how we got here, and why we're doing this podcast about WNBA cards, and why season four is fitting for that. So, why don't you tell me about, like, what kind of WNBA cards you're collecting right now, if that's changed from in the past?

And then maybe we have a couple more follow-up questions from there because once we start talking about the PC, I know we can really get going. So a lot of my excitement comes for the WNBA card spacing category comes from the content that I've produced over the course of my run at stacking slabs. I get into these modes where I start talking about specific cards in a category, and my curiosity takes off, and it makes me wanna explore, even further. And I can vividly remember doing auction talk and RIP auction talk. I know so many of you crossover fans love auction talk, and that was a show we did.

And in that show, we dug into WNBA cards for the first time on stacking slabs, and it was from a sales perspective. And a lot of that was driven from new attention, Caitlin Clark cards. And the more I started to dig into the world of WNBA cards, the more I got excited about it. And that curiosity really was the catalyst for my own collecting. And I I'm probably, like, in chapter two of my collecting WNBA cards right now.

And chapter one is always this, let's go out and cast a wide net and try to collect a lot of different things and try to collect a lot of different players and sets and try to get those cards in hand and figure out what I like, what I don't like, where I wanna go deeper. And I have I would say I've I've concluded that effort, and it's been a lot of fun. And this is not just my approach exclusive WNBA cards. It's it's typically any category. And the either it's the dust settles and I'm not excited anymore or I narrow in my focus.

And so I have been in the narrowing of focus phase for a while, and I would say that, generally, the, type of card or the profile of card has been where I've, leaned into on the WNBA card side for probably the last year or so. And, yeah, it undeniably, like, the mostly because it's comfort. It's like, you know, comfort food. For me, it's what I gravitated to. And maybe because it was my first really exposure was, WNBA Prism.

I talked about this on the podcast, and I've talked about the, vividly being at the Dallas Card Show, right after w m the the debut of WNBA, Prism dropped. And I remember seeing Sabrina's rookies in showcases for the first time, and I thought that was cool. And and everything else I collect, I collect Prism. So for me, having that understanding, that knowledge, and seeing how the product configuration works over a long period of time is is, like I mentioned, comforting to me. So I've been zeroed really in on that over the last year or so, and it's been fun.

I've learned a lot. I've collected some really cool cards. I've sold some cards that I didn't want anymore. And I would say I am enjoying that, but I feel myself kind of graduating into the next chapter, and this next chapter is more like focus. And that focus typically is around player.

And that is interesting for me because I am I live in Indianapolis. I go to a lot of FIFA games. I live I live a mile and a half from Cambridge. Every day, I drop my daughters off, and it's so fun because they ask questions. We get at the stoplight at the intersection of Maryland and Delaware, and there's this massive construction going on that used to be City County Jail, and they bulldozed it.

And now they're building up the fever's new state of the art practice facility. And it like, my oldest daughter, like, comments on, like, wow, daddy. Like, they're it's getting bigger and they're growing. And, like, to me, that's so fun to watch this team grow in the city and then have my kids, like, be interested. And so I think about that, and I think about all the things that I collect.

And, like, my core the core of my collection really is, like, that team in in Indiana fever. And what's good and what's not so good is, like you know, we we've got great players, Aliyah Boss and Kelsey Mitchell. But, like, Caitlin Clark is the the straw that stirs the drink, and she is the superstar that is here. And she's so captivating for all of the reasons in being here and living in this city and being interested in WNBA cards. I feel like I'm almost doing myself a disservice by not focusing in on figuring out how do I create a collection of Caitlin card Clark cards that I want, that I'm fired up about, and that also isn't going to, you know, cause me to have to sell my house.

That's that's the the I I like challenges with collecting, and I like carving out my wedge with collecting. And I find myself there right now. I find myself as someone who has Gaitlyn Clark cards, and I'm figuring out, like, what's the next move because I do know that the those cards in my collection are, like, very meaningful to me, and they they they mean a lot. And I'm just trying to figure out, like, what do I do to get my next one? And so I'm not saying I'm not collecting other stuff, but right now in this moment, which I view collecting as an evolution, it constantly changes.

I'm I'm I'm searching for my next Caitlyn Clark card in in WNBA cards. That is what excites me and interests me the most right now. I love it, Brett. To hear, like, the passion about, you know, being in the city that she's made her home is just incredible. I I wish you good luck on turning the page of that next chapter.

It it's it's both, like, exciting and fun, but also very nerve racking to feel like you're on the edge of changing a shift or or a shift in approach to your collecting. So, that's a fun thing to to kinda, like, pull back the curtain on and hear your thoughts on. I I'm sure we have all been there where we're just trying to navigate the waters of all the different players and teams and profiles of cards that we can collect. Hearing So your thoughts and your kind of, like, psychology behind that is is super interesting. I think we have a similar philosophy in terms of the fact that both of our personal collecting really revolves around a specific team, which happens to be the team in our city.

So I'm based out of Saint Paul. So, obviously, I'm a Minnesota Lynx fan, which makes most of my cards in my personal collection Lynx cards. But I also expand beyond that. I think we had a a previous episode where I, like, did a complete deep dive. I made, like, a framework, a graph of my, like, player PCs in the WNBA, and the ones at the top are Nafisa Collier and Maya Moore, which is interesting that they also happen to be both Yukon players from the same city.

That's just more of a coincidence. Most of my collecting revolves around the links, around players who are not just basketball players. I think Maya Moore and Nafisa Collier both have the trait of being off the court trailblazers and change makers. I value that a lot in my card collecting. I like to know that the people on the card are good people.

That's kind of where I've been focusing. And I think we also have a similarity. You brought up Prism that we don't both of us don't really collect autographs or memorabilia cards, like relic cards. As we go through the season, it's gonna be interesting to kinda, like, dissect maybe why that is because those aren't as prominent in WNBA cards as maybe in other lanes. Just something that I, like, I have observed in the past.

But both of us kinda stick to the shiny card, gold, black, vinyl, that kind of profiling card. And I've been exploring, going through a similar transition in my my card collecting where I'm trying to not get ahead of myself and to jump jump the gun on new releases or just accumulate. I'm really trying to curate my collection to be something that's reflective of me me as a fan. So right now, like, currently, what I'm thinking about in my personal collecting is Nafisa Collier. But it's it's so interesting that we kind of are in the same boat, but with two completely different superstars.

I'm kinda in the same the same boat where it's like, I need to figure out which cards represent me the best, which ones mean the most in terms of general general, like, market movement. I like to have cards that are both sentimental and hold their value, and exploring that is really interesting. So that's where I'm at with my personal collection. But I don't just collect links cards. I collect other players.

We'll plug Maureen Johannes here right now just as, like, one of the players that I, for some reason, feel enchanted by. I I don't know what it is. She plays for the liberty. It should be sacrilegious for me to even be admitting this, especially, like, on a recording. But players that when I watch them, I'm like, wow.

That that was fun. You're a fun player. You get me excited to turn on the TV. You don't play a lick of defense, and you just shoot up a bunch of threes. That's my profile of a player that I enjoy to watch.

And, so, yeah, I would say right now, my focus is Nafisa Collier, Maya Moore, Marine Johannes. What a trio. That's, it's awesome. I also think what's interesting in listening to you talk through that is as collectors, we're both pretty comfortable about defaulting to buying cards to get cards in our collection and see if they stick. Like, would there there's a lot of movement going on with with with both of us, I feel like, whether it's, you know, selling through consignment or selling at shows.

And I think what's interesting that is, to me, when I get in this process because I'm I'm never settled. I'm like, keep pushing. Keep pushing. What I find to be the most captivating part about collecting, and I've learned this a lot about WNBA cards, is, like, those cards that, like, stick around. It's like, those are those are signals, and it's like, that is a signal.

And that that's with, like, Clark. It was like, I'm I'm not getting I'm not even though I could get the most money for these cards right now, they continue to stay. So it's those cards that stay, I think, help kind of take us to where we're going next. It's like a compass in a way. Absolutely.

When you said that I wrote down two terms that, like, come up in a lot of hobby conversations, the first of which that I I I just it's interesting is, like, this idea of an entrance test. Like, that first when I get it in my hand, does it pass the the smell check? Do I do I like it? Does it shine the right way? You know, us as collectors, when we look at the design of a card, it either hits or it doesn't.

There's not really an in between. And so that entrance test is really valuable. And the second term that I wrote down was staying power, which is, are you going to continuously meet the mark of that entrance test when I pull it out of my box, when I, bring it out on my desk, when I'm taking photos of it under a ring light? Is it going to stay? Does it still, like, create that memory that's associated with it?

Those are two terms that, like, once you're aware of them, you can use them to your advantage to curate your collection. And so that as you're talking about that, that's just, like, two things that came up that I'm, like, in my personal collecting journey have helped me kind of curate where I'm at. I think the way you've organized what's ahead with this podcast for this season is I feel like staying power will be a huge theme, and you just maybe preview that major theme. But I've looked through the notes. I'm like, there's gonna probably be a lot of conversation around staying power.

Wow. What a transition from our host there, Brett. I love that. Let's get into why season four is happening, why it's happening now. I kinda wanted to, like, give some context to listeners as to what kind of, catalyzed this conversation.

Brett and I have been talking behind the scenes about what we see upcoming seasons looking like, what we think there's gaps in hobby content around, and this is what what stayed and what's gonna happen. And I think that one thing that I wrote down here is that the hobby, particularly the WNBA side of the hobby, has accelerated faster than its memory, meaning people aren't looking back. They're only looking forward. And I think that it can be very valuable to remove ourselves from that vacuum of comps and sales and hype cycles and really try to lean more into the understanding and the curiosity of how we got here. So, I'm just really excited about season four to be framed as this oral history that's narrated by collectors, for collectors.

It's it's not about which cards are gonna be the most valuable in twenty years. It's not about which cards were most valuable in 1952. It's about what cards mean the most to certain collectors depending on when they entered collecting, depending on, you know, their PC philosophy, depending on their teams, you know, and dissecting it through the eras. And it's it's it's not supposed to be definitive. It's not supposed to be a catalog of the best cards ever.

It's it's not supposed to be an academic study. It's just gonna be a showcase of different living ex lived experiences, collector perspectives, and putting more context on you know, more context on the education and the history of WNBA cards, which I've been dying to learn more about. So I'm just super excited. We're trying to document this, how it felt to collect through different eras of the WNBA. The WNBA existed before I was born, so, like, I don't have any context to share.

You know, Brett shared that he kind of entered with the 2020 and beyond era. We're trying to bring in people that have those different perspectives and points of view so that, hopefully, it sheds more light on on areas that haven't been given the time of day and that have a lot of star players, really cool cards, and really cool stories. So that's kind of why season four is happening, why it's happening now, and I'm just so excited, Brad. I I have an anticipation question for you. Okay.

So you said something there, which is a good reminder, and I think the reminder is so WNBA is a huge category and but so much of the focus is on what's new and what's coming out. Sucks for us be because we like to collect fee and Caitlin Clark, and that's kind of where the attention is. But there's this long history and this long catalog, and a lot of these categories or areas of WNBA collecting haven't been covered at the level that they're about to be covered by subject matter experts and people sharing details on the history. And I I built I'm building stacking slabs on the the premise of there's not enough education in this hobby or product specific, era specific information in this hobby. And if this platform can help satisfy that at some level, information is power, and collectors' access to information will help guide and make them inform them to make better buying decisions for their collection.

So, inevitably, I see the way this is constructed, and I see, essentially, like, every era of women's basketball, WNBA cards is going to be covered on this, which is going to shine a light on specific cards, reasons why manufacturers, and you're gonna have, like, a passionate guest, like, schooling the audience. So Yeah. I see a reaction to this. And I'm not this isn't the intent, but the the reaction inevitably, I've been doing Stacking Slabs content long enough, curating guests, bringing information to know that when after an episode, when someone covers a topic like Rittenhouse and they go ham on it and dig into all the details, inevitably, like, that'll interest collectors to then go say, oh, that was exciting. A lot of what they said resonated with me.

Why haven't I gone out to pursue this? So then people will beginning to explore and hunt and likely buy cards that they never bought before. Do you anticipate that? That is what I'm anticipating. Do you anticipate that this the way you've organized this and I know it's not the intention, but do you anticipate it opening the eyes to collectors who maybe have been stuck in an era like we have with the new stuff, getting educated and then maybe making a buy or two or maybe revamping their whole collection because they're interested in something because they just didn't have the access to the information prior to this show happening.

I mean, I can hope that the guests that we're gonna have on, which some of them we have planned, others are still kind of penciled in. You I I know the audience is gonna feel the passion behind them, and passion is what kind of drives those decisions or those pivots and collections. And so I know personally, if I hear somebody talking about cards from 2001 or 2002, which is, like, when I was born, like, I might feel compelled to go start explore that, and that's not an error that I've explored before. And so, like, I I do I do think it should be more about, like, inspiration instead of, like, dictation. I'm not trying to, like, have guests on that are telling you what to buy that are saying, these are so undervalued.

Make a play now. Like, you're gonna get rich quick. It's more about just, like, the exposure part, like you said. Because these cards haven't been put in the spotlight as much as they should, which they should be in the spotlight, I do think this should open, hopefully, some people's eyes to the different varieties or the different flavors of WBA cards that are out there. Because, like you said, so much of the emphasis both from you and I and from the greater hobby is on 2020 and onward to take that look back is going to be good no matter what.

And if they decide, you know, suddenly I feel inspired to go buy some Ultra cards, hell to the yes. Go buy some Ultra cards. Like, they like, I just think that the whole point of the season is to open your eyes, and then you can decide where you wanna walk. But we're just trying to guide you on what's out there so that you have a full kind of, like, baseline understanding of your options. Because right now, it really feels like the timeline has been shrunk to the last five years.

And we're talking like, the podcast is gonna start, like, in the '19 hon nineteen thirties, nineteen forties. Like, we're going back, and then we're gonna make our way to today. And to be able to to do that to do that walk through should hopefully kind of bring some inspiration even if you're not into it, even if you're like, I don't give a shit what was happening in the fifties. Like, to know about that is gonna help inform your decisions about what's happening maybe in the twenty fifties. You know?

Like, these are things that that I'm hoping will be brought to the surface. Phenomenal. Yeah. That as you were talking, that's where my head just started spinning thinking about that, but, just wanted to get some clarification on your end. Yeah.

Absolutely. Why don't we, we we cannot forget about our sponsor as well. The official sponsor of the WME Card Podcast and the greater Stacking Slabs Podcast Network is Card Ladder. Brett, what do you what do you see Card Ladder playing a role? Why do why do we think Card Ladder is a good fit for season four to be our sponsor?

It is the platform of choice for most collectors when they're trying to identify information or data based on sales history, organizing your own collection. I just I view I don't know. Like, I oftentimes like, there's so many people I know that use CardLider, and I spend so much time in CardLider. And I was I was just talking with the CardLider team yesterday, actually, and just talking about workflows that I create and do weekly just to check sales history and how it makes us informed. But I think we're gonna be talking about cards that maybe haven't gotten the spotlight or maybe haven't been sold in a long time.

But I think the ability to pair the data from a platform like CardLadder to some of the conversations in oral history and narratives that are gonna be sharing is gonna be super powerful. So I'm very excited to kinda marry those two worlds of, like, narrative and actual data. Like, I don't I'm not gonna steal the thunder, but excited about the first guest that you have. And I've got a chance to look at some of the deliverables that will be driving that episode. I'm, like, already thinking.

I'm like, has this ever sold publicly? Like, let's go look at the CardLadder. And I think stuff like that is super cool and why CardLadder is just a perfect fit to be supporting the WNBA Card podcast. For sure. We'll be using CardLadder throughout the season to hopefully check ourselves maybe even be surprised sometimes.

I I will I don't doubt that there'll be some cards we discussed that haven't sold, since, I don't know, decades probably, if we're being honest. So I'm I'm super excited about it. And I I suppose why don't we why don't we kinda, like last last week, we previewed what we're gonna be walking through in terms of just, like, general eras. But I kinda wanna break down for you guys, for the listeners, of what to expect in terms of errors that certain episodes are gonna cover. That way you have a better grip of, like, what to what to look forward to.

And so, I'm just gonna walk us through what what I hope this season is going to be versus what it's not. And then kind of the eras that are gonna be discussed over the course of the season. And Brett and I are gonna interject with our initial thoughts because I have a feeling, you know, this is very, very fundamental, like, very baseline understanding of these eras. Hopefully, the season will build up our understanding in our education, and we might have different opinions by the end of the season. But understanding ours our intent.

This season is supposed to be like a chronological arc of WNBA cards focused on licensed products, key players, and collector behavior. We're gonna have different guests on that walk through that, but it's not going to be a product by product checklist. We're not gonna be like, okay. What came out in 2000, and which products are those? Who's in it?

What what happened in 2012? Like, that's not the idea. It's not supposed to be a weekly market analysis. We're not trying to make investment, advice. We are going to walk through the errors, and hopefully, have a better understanding.

So we're gonna kick off. The first episode is gonna be super cool. I'm, like, kind of dying about it right now. It's all about before the WNBA. So it's gonna be pre 1997.

And we're gonna talk about how women's sports cards, including basketball cards, existed but sparsely despite the fact of the, matter that women's basketball is one of the most popular sports right now in women's sports. And we're gonna talk about why representation was inconsistent in the nineteen hundreds all the way up until the nineteen nineties. It was often an an afterthought. And we wanna discuss why this absence matters when we're evaluating the early landscape of the of women's basketball cards and what that kind of means looking to today. So that's gonna be our kickoff or our tip-off episode next week.

Brett, have you ever explored pre 1997 women's basketball cards? Is this a completely new idea to you? Very, very new. I will say it's interesting where you hear now as a WNBA fan. You always hear, like, this conversation about the history and, like, the the players and moments that set the stage back in the day and talking about, like, Cynthia Cooper's and all these players.

And I won't mention Cheryl Swoops, but, you you you hear this all the time, and it's like, recognize, but this is even, like, going before that. This is like this is the players. This is the eras that really gave way to the idea of the WNBA even being a league that people were going to invest into exist. So I have never thought about this, and I think this historical viewpoint about, like, why we're here, like Yeah. There's always something that is the catalyst for why we're doing what we're doing today from a collecting perspective.

And so, no, I've never thought about this, but I'm excited to learn about it. Me too. I think I think it's really important to build that understanding to kinda under like, to figure out where we are now. And so that'll be a good starting jumping off point. I'm excited for next week.

And after that episode, we'll get into the early WMA league or the early WMA years when the league was formed. So that was '97 to about you know, these years are kind of just, like, goalposts. We're not we're they're not, like, completely set in stone. But, like, 1997 to 2002, it's kinda like the league doesn't have a blueprint. They don't have a lot to go off of.

They're exploring what it means. There's a little bit more experimental designs. My mind immediately goes to that Lobo card we keep talking about some somehow. There's uncertain print runs, mixed commitment from manufacturers, and cards are starting to kinda reflect survival and necessity over stardom in terms of the fact that the league wasn't you know, it's not what it was today. But in 1997, there were lots of records set on viewership for the WNBA, and for good reason.

People were excited, but it was new. So then after 2002, we're gonna move into kind of the icon era of Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi, and the Yukon pipeline exploding and talking about how greatness changes collecting behavior and how DT and Sue Bird are two icons that emerged in the WNBA card collecting landscape. And that today, 2026, we're still talking about them kind of the same way that we did in the early two thousands. So the idea of career long collecting beginning to form, those are kind of the themes of those early two thousand years that we're gonna get into. After that, we're gonna move into the written house era, which is when a manufacturer finally kind of commits and gets exclusive rights.

And we're gonna split this up into two different eras. We're gonna go with, like, the early written house, which is, you know, building trust, building a new brand, and talk about the fact that these cards mostly came out in complete sets, which was a change from previous years. And then we're gonna go into the later years of Rittenhouse when we truly see, like, huge, huge stars begin to exist. So that could be, like, Stewie and Asia. That could be players like that where we look back on Rittenhouse and we think to ourselves, wow.

There were some there were some, like, real real cards that were coming out then that still don't get the same, respect and coverage as those today, which leads us to kind of the final phase of the podcast, which will be all about the modern acceleration. We're gonna talk about Sabrina's entrance coinciding with the release of Prism and Panini entering. We're gonna talk about Caitlin Clark, Paige Becker's, and how hype cycles look different than what they used to. And we're gonna cap it off with a discussion about the future. Talk about how NCAA women's basketball has exploded, has always been prominent, has has existed alongside the WNBA as a pipeline, and how new players like Sarah Strong, Juju Watkins, Hannah Hidalgo are setting huge comps, which are you know, it just looks crazy when you compare them to the likes of DT or Sue Bird or Asia Wilson, that these new players are really bringing in a new frag a a new segment of the WNBA card collecting community.

So that's kind of a walk through broadly of the areas that we're gonna go through, and we're trying to bring on guests who feel passionate about one of those areas in particular to talk all about different ideas, concepts, both personally and objectively to hopefully educate listeners on what each of those eras has to bring and why it's important today. I think as listening listening to you do that run through, Caitlin, the thing that one of the many topics that I think will inevitably be explored at some level that really excites me to try to understand further, it's like this idea of this modern age and these stars that are household names and the prices and the values and the interest behind those cards. And oftentimes, like, my mindset is when we're in this moment, how important is it the familiar is familiarity around, like, a specific parallel or specific set? How much of that drives the behavior versus I'm a WNBA collector, and I wanna spend my hard earned money on these cards. And I think so often and what I've observed just in this this, you know, last couple years is that you have outside interests that gravitate to Prism Blacks or Prism Gold Vinyl because they know Prism Blacks or Prism Gold Vinyls based on their collecting in or football or in basketball.

And so then and naturally, there's a bridge there with WNBA cards. And so I think about that, and I think about, like, going all the way back to, like, masterpieces in Flair. And it's like, nineties collectors know about these, but, like, do does anyone else and so, like, there's so many different competing dynamics there on, like, why collectors decide to or decide not to pursue something. Mhmm. I'm just interested in all these conversations to see how that's all how that all plays out.

Even if it's not intentionally addressed, I feel like it'll come out just in these conversations. Yeah. Absolutely. I actually I wrote down some of those dynamics if you if you guys are imagining kind of a scale of two words and and going, sliding between them. The idea that Brett's talking about right there is kind of this idea of, like, scarcity versus visibility.

Is it is it highly marketed and there's a lot of attention on it? That means it's highly visible, or is it not? Is it something that's below the surface? You have to dig a little bit deeper. You need to know what you're looking for, or you need to know what error it's coming from.

That education. We're trying to slide between those two dynamics. The other dynamics that I wanna explore through the season is, like, respect versus speculation. That's more so DT versus Paige Becker's. Okay?

DT has had a better career, point blank, but Paige Becker's cards typically outsell her. And that's an interesting thing to talk about. Why is that? How does that happen? How did we get to that point?

Another one is, like, longevity versus moments. I think about the Caitlin Clark effect. That is a moment, but it continues to, sustain itself, and maybe it becomes a longevity point. Talking about the idea of careers of moments versus longevity, how collectors respond to that, what's valued more. We're gonna talk about how women's basketball fandom shapes collecting differently from other other places.

I think we've talked in the past about how affinity in women's sports is super high. We're gonna dissect why that is, how we got here, how that happens. We're gonna explore why some cards feel like a bargain, meaning we're emotionally tied to them, but their their emotional weight is heavier than maybe the price or the comp that's been set. And so those are kind of some of the dynamics or the sliders that I'm gonna be trying to to kinda, like, straddle as we walk through these conversations. And by having different people on with different perspectives, sometimes we might be more on the visibility side or sometimes we might be more on the scarcity side.

And understanding where you fall when you're listening could be helpful to guide your decisions in those in those collecting for sure. This is gonna be fun. I love the visual of the scale there, the the push and pull. I have not really ever heard anyone in any category or show talk about these types of competing motions, and I'm excited for, this show to help crack those open and uncover some themes. For sure.

And just to give the listeners an idea of what tactically these shows are gonna look like, we've kind of defined different segments that might they might differ a little bit, but just ideas of where we're gonna go with each episode. You can expect each episode to have a context start where we're gonna talk about the context of the state of the league. We're gonna talk about which cards existed, the manufacturer landscape at the time, who was buying the rights to the WNBA, why were they there, what did the cards look like. We're gonna talk about the key players. Were there any key rookies?

Did they have rookie cards? What those cards look like today if they're still in demand. We're gonna talk about the era's significance in terms of who was winning, who was losing, who was at the attention of the media if there was a lot of attention, and its influence on today. Do we still see, marks either in the game or in cards, from that era? We're gonna talk about personal perspectives.

We're gonna talk about people's stories of going to the WNBA in its early years. We're gonna talk about people that maybe have seen Caitlin Clark in person. We're gonna talk about all these different things that make us want to connect. And then we're gonna talk about canon contribution, which is something I'm excited about. We had a couple episodes talking about the idea of a canon, which is the cards that are important to the hobby that sustain long term growth.

And so at the end of each episode, I'm going to ask the guest to pick out a couple cards that if they were contributing to the cannon, what it would look like. And, hopefully, by the end of the season, we can have a really holistic view of what WNBA or women's basketball cards have looked like since they began to today. And it'll be interesting to look back maybe in a couple years and see if that changes or if that's something that, sustains the test of time. This is great. Let's let's get this let's get the next episode out, Kaelin.

I I need to hear it. I'm ready. Yeah. Episode two is super exciting. Like I said before, it's gonna be all about before the WNBA, why early absence and context matters more than people think.

We're going to welcome on the upcoming guest at Giant Legend, Cindy Deck, who's an amazing guest. I think Brett has had her on the podcast before. Way back in the day. An early app. Early app.

So if you guys dig through the archive, you can see her, but she's gonna be on next week. I'm super excited to have a conversation with her. It's it's going to be, hopefully, very educating for both me and for you guys listening. But I'm just, like, I'm dying to have this conversation. It'll be excited.

I got a chance to meet Cindy probably in forty four, five years ago. It's been a while. And I can promise you this, nobody collects like Cindy, and no one has the historical mindset on not just, like, pre WNBA women's basketball cards, but just women's cards in general. So she's going to come to this conversation with a one of one historical mindset on women's cards and women's basketball cards, and it's going to be super educational. And I told Caitlin before we hit record, there's not a better guest to kick this off with than Cindy.

So, make sure, yeah, give her a follow at Giant Legends, and she'll be on the podcast next week. I'm fired up. Awesome. I'll leave our listeners with this last kind of teaser for season four, which is if you've ever wondered why certain cards mean more than their comps, why it's impossible to find a certain area of WBA cards at a show, or where are the collectors that have been doing this longer than you are hiding, this is the season for you. I promise we're gonna do our best to bring on those voices to amplify this to hopefully teach you guys something, teach myself something, and we couldn't be more excited to have you along for the ride.

Season four is gonna be different. It's gonna be fun. It's gonna be educational, and I'm just excited to do it. Brett, let's do it. That is like, as a marketer, that's like you're pulling at the heartstrings.

That is a that is a way to position what's about to come. So well done, Caitlin. Excited for what you're going to be bringing to this show and all the amazing guests. And thank you everyone out there who continues to support this podcast. And make sure you're following us on Instagram at w n b a card pod, and, yeah, let's let's do this.

Thanks, everyone. See you.