Welcome back, loyal listeners of the Stacking Slabs podcast to the season finale, episode 12 of the WNBA card podcast.

I am your host, Katelyn. I go by at cold lunch cards on the Instagram Instagram machine and everywhere else, and I'm joined by my amazing cohost, Brett McGrath at stacking slabs.

And we're here to give you more collector driven and community focused WNBA content on our twelfth final episode of season one.

Brett, how are you doing today? Should we let the people know? I feel like the there's a cliffhanger there. Like, are we gonna be back?

Should we let the people know what our plan is? Let them know. We'll be back. So, hey, thanks, everyone. Mostly, it's because of all of you saying I I specifically got DMs from individuals saying you can't be done after 12 episodes.

And that was repeated, and that was enough for me. And, also, I enjoy talking to Caitlin about WNBA cards every week, so it's just kind of a no brainer.

So we're gonna be back. This is just, like, the initial term, our finale, and we're gonna do things maybe a little bit differently in this episode.

But, yes, thank you all for supporting what we're doing over here. Absolutely. It's been an awesome 11, now 12 episodes, and I'm so thankful to all of you for sticking around and and listening to this season finale.

And like Brett said, we're gonna do things a little bit differently today with the format, and I'm super excited about it. Why don't we get into our tip-off segment, which has me fired up.

We're gonna be talking about our expectations going into starting the WNBA card podcast, when we first got this thing rolling, to today and all the things that we did along the way.

So, Brett, I'll I'll toss it over to you, and maybe you can give the listeners thoughts on what you were first expecting and, where we're at now.

I wanna let everyone know that I really the process is everything to me and just creating these shows and the process which a lot of it you all don't see.

You just get the episode. Like, I love, like, throwing these, big questions out. And then, right before we record, I see Caitlin's, purple font just like Google Doc on top of Google Doc, sheets of it, which is always fun.

So, I know Caitlin's gonna have a lot of energy on this topic, but I'll say, you know, it it real I have never talked about this, but it really started for me this, like, need and concept and idea started when we I was doing, auction talk with Nick at the worst sports cards.

And, slowly, we started talking about WNBA cards in each of those episodes. Big sales, things that were interesting to us from a market perspective.

And I would reflect on each of those conversations, and I would listen to those conversations back. And I'd be like, man, like, talking about the w and the collecting around w is my favorite part of those episodes.

And part of that was, you know, I was newer to the category and looking at sales data and sharing cards. It was it was full circle for me because it was like a learning experience as I was delivering content.

And I would get feedback from, WNBA collectors out there, and people would be like, I love this show, and I really love it when you talk about WNBA cards because no one else is really doing.

And so I like these mental notes over and over and over, and I started thinking about the vision of stacking slabs and what I want this platform to be. And I just I'm doing this full time. This is what I do.

I get to wake up, and I get to create sports card content in a lot of different places, and I feel very, very fortunate. Thank you all for listening to make it possible. Thank all the sponsors and support for making it possible.

But one of the things I really saw missing in the hobby is the, focused content around specific categories. Now that's not with not saying that there's not basketball card podcasts or football card podcasts.

These things exist. But I think creating regular drumbeat of content around specific categories, pulling the community in, delivering high quality episodes each and every week, what is is really important to me.

And I've always found that when you shrink the hobby c, not only from a collecting perspective, but from a content perspective and bring people closer together who have similar tastes and interests, really cool things happen.

And the side effect of that can be you have new followers, you meet new friends, you find a trade partner, you get a card in your collection that you wouldn't normally have had, but because there's a a specific trust and connection thing.

So I I've seen this play out, in just other content that I've done, but I've never really focused on bringing something new to life.

And so the WNBA card podcast really was like, okay. Let's see if the community wants something like this, and let's see what happens.

And throughout these 12 episodes, I mentioned it up upfront, like, it's been validation. It's been validation for this assumption and theory that I had around content in this space, and, I just wanna do more.

I wanna do more with this show. And you'll if you follow stacking slabs from a broader perspective, you'll see a rollout, or you will have seen a rollout of a new show that, we dropped Friday.

So, we are dropping the football card podcast. That's gonna be with Pat Nicholson.

That's gonna come out every Friday. So this is part of my plan, wasn't part of the master plan to begin with, and I would would have never have dreamt two years ago that I would have started with the WNBA card podcast.

But it takes community. It takes a awesome cohost. It takes a lot of different things. And throughout these 12 episodes, it's really been great validation, and I'm excited to dig in further.

We're just scratching the surface. Mhmm. So much to talk about. But, yeah, Caitlin, that is what I've got. It's been a fun ride so far. What about you? Oh, it's been fun.

It's been awesome. And I've got a lot of thoughts on this. I I wrote this up. Like Brett said, I've got my purple font that I put in the Google Doc, and it always seems to overtake the black font because I just keep writing and writing.

And I and I really I'm just so passionate about this, and I almost got emotional, writing about it when I was preparing what I was gonna talk about.

And I have a lot of points I wanna hit on. I had a comment from a listener in my DM saying, your TED Talks at the beginning of the episodes are always fun to listen to.

So I suppose be prepared for another one of those. Okay. Let's let's start out with my expectations and go from there.

I had low expectations, coming into this. Not because I didn't trust the Stacking Slabs brand and the community that Brett has built, but because, I just didn't expect much from myself.

I've never done this before. I'm not a content creator. I'm not a podcaster. And I really thought, like, you know, maybe we'd get five to 10 people listening a week, and three of them would be, like, my family, like, my parents.

But, you know, the response has been absolutely insane. I I I really came into this just thankful for the opportunity to talk about something that I love, which is WNBA card collecting.

But the support that we got was just bigger and better than anything I had had imagined. And and there were really, like, two types of people that reached out to provide feedback.

The first one was, like, people that are already collecting WNBA cards, and they're like, thank you for filling the gap. This doesn't exist anywhere else, and you guys are doing a good job, representing us, in podcast form.

But there was also the second segment of collectors who said that this was their first time ever engaging with WNBA content full stop.

Not even WNBA card content, just WNBA content, and that this podcast opened up that lane of an opportunity either for fandom or for collecting.

And, like, that's just absolutely insane to reflect on, and I'm really proud that you and I were able to to do that.

And speaking of just making a difference and, you know, you know, hearing the things that people are talking about, it's crazy to say out loud, but, like, some folks shared that we helped guide their collecting or their purchases or help them understand the hobby in general and how it functions.

And so knowing that something that we said stuck with people, it just it just really meant a lot to me, and I think that that's a good reflection and really good, feedback as to why we're gonna continue into season two.

And so speaking of season two in the future, I think I'm more optimistic now than when we started.

While my expectations were low, I did have high hopes, and I think we've met them. And I think that there's more room for this kind of content. Like Brett said, we're just scratching the surface.

I feel like in each episode, we're packing in as much as we can, and I still have more I want to say when we finish recording. I'm like, damn. I wish we could just keep going and going, but we can't.

But we're gonna keep going with episodes, and that's really exciting. And I think that, you know, the hobby and WNBA collectors in particular deserve that. You know, they're underserved in the community.

There is not as much marketing. There's not as much attention. It's definitely marketed as a niche segment of the hobby, and we're here to kind of just, like, bring that validation to collectors themselves.

So that's been super exciting. And I just wanna, like, finish off with what I've learned personally, and I'm sure Brett shares some of the same sentiments.

But I thought that, you know, I'd be the one sharing takes or trying to educate the listeners. But the reality of it is that I learned more from you guys listening via DMs or mailbag questions or feedback or anything than I expected.

And it's really pushed me to look at, you know, my own collecting, from, like, what I want to collect and how I define my legacy as a collector.

But it also forced me to look at the hobby from a bigger scale or from the industry perspective, which is something that I kind of ignored before the podcast. So, it's just been a lot of lessons learned.

I'm very thankful, and and I'll I'll I'll end with my TED talk with this that we I think we really lived the mission that we set out at the beginning of this, which is, you know, from the jump of every episode, I say collector driven and community focused.

It's in our Instagram bio, and that's really been, like, the guiding North Star of the WNBA card podcast.

So I think we're doing a good job at that. I think we're gonna continue doing that, and I just I just wanna be very grateful and open, to Brett about letting me join the podcast.

This is like I remember when the auction talk was happening and you guys were talking about WNBA cards like Brett touched on, and it's like, it'd be so awesome if he did that.

And then suddenly, he's like, would you be interested in this? And it's an immediate yes. Like, I didn't even have to think about it for one second.

So just really, really thankful to Brett and to the listeners for allowing this to happen. And, you know, in in a lot of my Instagram captions, when I post a card, I just keep writing and writing.

And and one of the things that always stands out is that I collect for my younger self, like little Caitlin who bought cards off the shelf at Shopko in Green Bay, the team sets of Packer cards, or whatever it may be.

And I think about if I would tell, like, 10 year old me that I'm on the mic talking about WNBA carb cards, on a podcast every week.

I think she would just be really proud. So it's been awesome. I said a lot, but just very grateful is the underscore there. Great TED Talk. I love it.

We need to repeat that and start selling tickets. That was good stuff, Caitlin. We'll say a couple things. We're gonna we're gonna take your not input. You are you are a content creator. You are a podcast. 12 episodes says that.

But I think one thing you said is, I love hearing you say it because I have felt this throughout the entire stacking slabs journey, where anybody who is in it like this and you don't have the moment where, Caitlin, you said what you said is, like, you've learned from the community and the audience.

Like, that's the most powerful thing, and that's the most rewarding thing I've picked up from just doing all of the episodes inside of this, show and outside of it. I think just the the education both ways is is so important.

Final thing for me is you I have observed this as a trend recently, collector sliding in the DMs who never collected WNBA, never, listened to WNBA content or watched WNBA content, and I have new collectors who are showing pickups and cards that they have.

And I don't know. Like, it's so hard to be like, wow. Like, these individuals are tuning into the show, are getting educated and inspired enough to go make purchases. Like, it's crazy to, like, wrap your wrap my head around that.

But I think it goes to show me and hopefully everyone else as we enter this new era of the hobby with new manufacturers, everything that's going on. We're coming off the heels of Fanatics Fest, and you didn't have to be there.

You followed it from your, phone. I think it's just what's not lost on me is just the power of stuff like this and education and talking about cards and why they matter.

And so if we can be a small piece of that education in this big sea of, you know, monster events and people ripping boxes and influencers and cameras and all this stuff, if we can be a place where you can go and feel, alright.

I like these people. I like how they're talking, and I'm learning something.

Like, that's all that matters to me. 100%. That that was probably my favorite tip-off we've had, Brett. We've had some good ones, but reflecting on these 12 episodes, is really special.

So while I could keep talking for hours on on end about it, why don't we move into our next segment? We like we said, we're kind of changing up the format a little bit.

So the second segment, we're gonna be talking about what's still missing, whether that's in the card space, the hobby space, or the content space. So, I'm really excited to be talking about this, Brett.

I suppose why don't we start with the big headline, which is gaps that we see in the WMEA card market itself, and what we think, you know, should be done about those gaps, how we can fill them.

Yeah. I said there's a there's a lot of different, things that we can tackle. And so I feel like let's maybe hit some of these broader topics and see what we each have to say.

And, hopefully, by the end of it, we can come up with some a script of recommendations that we'd like. But maybe let's start here with, products.

And I think good update that we got from the beginning of the year from Panini regarding products with the the the headline of there'll be three products that didn't exist last year that are gonna be here, this year, which is great.

I think more products are good. I also think there's, like, probably a caveat to that.

It's like, we don't wanna just, like, create new products to create new products so we can feed Raker so that there's this oversupply of WNBA cards. I don't think that's what I'm suggesting.

I think what I'm suggesting is, like, some like, new products that, help, not only show the strength and the growth of the category, but then also might appeal to newer collectors or collectors of cards that might not be what currently exists and might get them over to, WNBA.

So, like, for one, I know it's probably not happening this year, but one thing that I would like to see, even though I don't really collect this lane at all, I think it would be really good if Panini released a WNBA flawless product.

And I know it's really expensive. It's really high end. But there are so many collectors who collect autographs and memorabilia, game worn, game use, whatever you wanna call it.

And so whether it's immaculate, whether it's flawless, NT, whatever it is, I think having something there on the high end scale, that has Game worn, relics or patches and on card autographs would be a massive addition, and I think would pull a new audience of people in who just collect that stuff.

So product stuff that I'd like to see, that's it, and maybe that's kinda the first bullet.

Caitlin, I'd love to hear kinda what your perspective is from a on the product side. Yeah. I have to agree with you on all fronts. I think the on card auto, the game use memorabilia are top of mind for me.

I definitely think it's not an easy fix, so to say, but I do think it's something that, would really pay dividends to the manufacturing companies if they were to invest in that.

And in terms of products, I don't necessarily feel a need to expand rapidly and continue to create products, whether it's just one off products or a ton of different variations. Like, I don't need 10 different Prism products every year.

I just don't need that. I need one. And so keeping the catalog semi limited, I think, is an advantage, and there's no need to go nuclear with the number of products that we're putting out.

But I do want to see more availability and accessibility for collectors of all price ranges, all audiences, all ages.

So, there is room for more to be added, but I don't think we need to go crazy. We didn't talk too much about specific brands here, but, like, I did wanna plug one, which is optic.

We talked about it before how Donner's is coming back, but there's been no mention of whether or not optic will be included like it was as an insert.

It it's just not clear to me what they're doing with that, and I would just really appreciate if they stuck with that. Just, like, one optic per box or one optic per pack, whatever the configuration was.

No need to make another optic product, another box. And I think that's just, like, the products that I'm really hoping to see and the type of initiatives that I hope either the existing or new manufacturers will make.

I know. When I read the the specs and the product sheet, I saw the immediately. And, again, I know nothing, but it was like, they've replaced the optic with the downtown is the chase.

And Yeah. If that's the case, hopefully I don't know. We'll see what happens. But, yeah, the optic, it's already there. It's in the first one. Like, keep it going.

So we'll see. Yeah. We'll see. Well, we could talk on and on about our opinions for products because I have a lot of them, but why don't we move on to kind of three other pillars, that I'm really excited to talk about.

I'll just introduce each of them, and then we can go through and say, what our thoughts are. So the three pillars that we want to talk about are collector tools, innovation and education.

Now those are some fun things to talk about. But I'll let you take the wheel and kind of steer us here on which one you want to hit first or if one really means more to you than the others.

Yeah. I'll probably just like jumble them all together in a way. I think collector tools, I think, just generally is really, really important, especially for individuals who are diving into a new category.

And this most most of the time when I think about tools, I think about things like places where that can bring individuals together to share information.

And I I just especially with an emerging category, I think what and I don't have, like, this is what we gotta do.

This is the idea. I just think concepts are really important that can bring collectors together. And I think that's really important because the most important thing in my mind right now is is the education component.

I think, like, when I think about education and the hobby, like, I like to say that part of having a a platform and bringing people in and sharing their perspective is part of the education process, but there's also so much that can be done outside of what's happening online, and that's where I lean towards, like, hobby shops.

And I think right now and this is getting, like, super in the weeds, but, like, I part of my brain and being in any professional setting and, yes, this is a professional setting to me.

So I take the same concepts that I did when I was building startups in the software space and apply it. Here in the hobby is I analyze and over analyze what I'm seeing from all the different stakeholders.

And, generally, the hobby shop is a primary location for education, and that's why hobby shops are so damn important in this space. Going to hobby shops, you see something online, you go in, and you have conversations with the owner.

And great owners, which we've had plenty of great owners on stacking slabs, come from a place of abundance. They know the importance of education, how they communicate with their, customers that come in.

And so I'm I'm very big on hobby shops. I think my one issue when it comes to WNBA and what I fear right now is that the hobby shop owner right now is, in a deal here.

They're in a deal, and most of their focus and attention is in the relationship. And I'm not trying to speak for hobby shop owners. I'm just this is what I see and what I hear. Mhmm.

A lot of hobby shop owners are focused on the license with tops and fanatics and allocations and making sure that they're doing what they can, whether it's setting up in fanatics fest, making sure they're buying all the product that's coming their way because that's who's in charge right now or mostly in charge.

Well, that doesn't take into account or consideration what the WNBA.

So it's like, what's the motivation and incentive outside of getting a few boxes from Panini here and there to, like, make that part of the conversation at the hobby shop level.

And so I hope I'm, like, wrong there completely, but just that's a perceived issue that I have, and I think there are opportunities to get probably get better on. Yeah. So that's kinda just overall, my my thoughts.

I I I would love for there to be another, channel to open up to talk about WNBA cards. Like, I have never once once since I've been doing stacking slabs, been fearful of more content or educational content. I I've always said more.

Like, the more we have, the better we're going to be and just think, hopefully, with this show, we're giving other potential creators or existing creators, an idea over a framework of what what might be possible with spending, you know, an half hour, an hour a week talking about WBA cards.

That was a really good diagnosis of a potential issue, like, in a hobby shop.

I think that's, like, an inflection point and a starting point for a lot of collectors, and it's something that we as, quote, unquote seasoned or veteran collectors that have been doing this for a while tend to overlook.

But it's it's very important.

It's very exciting to see new hobby shops open that are focusing on women's sports. I know one just opened here in Saint Paul, basically, in my backyard, full showcase of WNBA cards, and they've gotten a lot of attention for that.

And I just hope that other owners and and collectors will appreciate that, and that'll continue to spread across the country for everybody. What do I know you've got some thoughts on these topics. Where where do you wanna go?

I'd love to hear from you. Yeah. I mean, I have lots of thoughts on every topic, it seems. But I suppose I'll I'll I'll shift away from the hobby shop owner and more to the content creator or the online collector.

So Brett talked about the in person aspect, which is very important, cannot be understated. But a lot of what we do, especially, cold lunch cards and stacking slabs is on Instagram or on the Internet or other avenues.

And I think that it's really about accountability. At the end of the day, it it accountability intertwines into innovation, education, collector tools. It's it's kind of the foundation for it.

And I think that I would urge collectors and content creators, whether you're just one person collecting personally for your PC or if you're running some sort of business or, sharing different hobby content, To take a look at your feed, just scroll through it and see if you see any, non male athletes presented in your cards.

And just take a look and see what how that makes you feel and reflect on it because I would urge anybody who doesn't have any female or female athletes on their on their page, to kind of prioritize that and think about what what kind of message you're sending.

Now if you don't collect WNBA, that's fine.

There's no need to, like, feel bad about that or whatever. But I would say from a from a content perspective, I would really push content creators to feel accountable to prioritize women's sports in the content that they're pushing out.

And that's something that I think could could pay dividends to collectors who are following you, and it would just be overall a good a good exercise to perform.

Go ahead. Yeah. So I think my question to you, Caitlin, would be and I wasn't quite sure we'd get into the the the gender thing, but I think it's an interesting topic. It's there is this perception overall.

Like, we have our viewpoint and stereotypes of this is what the hobby participant looks like in 2025. People share the memes of, like, the national, and it's, like, old fat white guys that, you know, are sweating, collecting cards.

And it's like, yes. Some like, there's a percentage. Yeah. Some of that stuff exists, and, like, all you need to do is, you know, go and do a show and see it.

But I don't know. It's like there's obviously, like, my eyes have been opened through having this conversation with you for twelve weeks consecutive alongside, like, the community that's followed from this.

Like, I don't know. Like, if if you are someone who's in the space collecting or in the space creating and you don't know that because we all hide behind these avatars.

And, like, I try to be mindful when I'm communicating with someone who's just an avatar to may never really say, like, thanks, man, because, like, that's an assumption. Like, thank you.

You're a dude because we're all dudes here. I don't know. Like, you're a female in this space, and I'm sure you've probably dealt with a series of interactions where someone's assumed you're a male or, you know, whatever.

But, like, how like, what it do you have any, like, recommendations of the casual listener of this, like and, like, this being is this, like, an issue? Like, if it is an issue, like, what are ways that we can maybe make it better?

This is maybe opening up a candle. No. No. It's important. And and I think it's a good way to cap off, like, season one is to talk about this because this is something that happens in the hobby.

I think, I was asked how many times do you get called man, sir, dude, bro, bruh, whatever, a day. And I was like, the over under, probably around eight, to be honest with you guys.

Like, it's gotta be a lot. And that's because it's funny. People always say, like, when I imagine you in my head when before we met, when we were just online, I just thought about a lunchbox with hands and and and legs and arms.

And I'm like, perfect. That's what I want you to imagine, not just like some sweaty old guy. But but, yes, it it happens every day. People always assume that because you collect cards, you have to be a man for some reason.

It's just not true. And I think in WNBA card collecting, obviously, it's a women's sport, so there's going to be more women that are, in the hobby.

And I think it's just important to recognize that not everybody in the hobby looks like you, talks like you, is the same gender as you, and I think it's just important to be cognizant of that.

And when you're creating content or collecting, just be aware of it. And and I think once you recognize that, it's very hard to ignore it. Because suddenly when you say man and you go, oh, shit. That's not a man.

My bad. It's like, well, that's a little embarrassing, and that's not the best text to send afterwards and be like, oh, my bad. My bad. It's like, I don't take any personal offense to it. I could care less. It's like the Internet.

But I do think it's something that especially in the WNBA card space, there's a lot of female collectors, and it's important that we that we are aware of them and, promote them and amplify them and make them feel welcomed.

And I think that's what this podcast is what I'm what I'm trying to do is to make it a welcoming space for all people, not just, like, the sweaty old guys who show up at shows and are the loudest of the of the bunch.

There's a lot of other types of collectors out there.

Yeah. Final note for me on this is, like, if there is definitely, even when I first started collecting WNBA cards and posting WNBA cards, I could I could feel the in in few words or less, I could feel feel the like, you're doing what?

Like, why would you like, what? And I I think, like like, posting football cards one day and then posting, you know, a WNBA card, like, from a spectator perspective, be like, what is this individual doing?

And it's like, whether it's WNBA or whether it's something else, like, my recommendation to everyone would be, like, don't be scared to go collect something new that you're interested in even if it feels and looks completely different than what you've collected before.

Because what you'll find, I think, is, enlightening. You'll meet brand new set of people.

Like, we get in these phases where we just talk to the same people all day. Yeah. To me, what's satisfying is, like, through this experience has been just the the new, fresh conversations that I've been having.

So I guess punchline for me is just be open minded. Yeah. Period. Let's leave it there. That's that's a good way to end it. Alright. Product polls time. I'm excited about this.

Let's get into some cards, bro. I so this section always is just, like, how I'm feeling, what I'm like, what's going on in my head? And I thought this would be an interesting topic to dig into, and it was more my curiosity.

When a shout out card ladder would not be able to do sections segments like this on the WNBA card podcast without a card ladder who's the official data provider of stacking slabs in the WNBA card podcast.

But I have this question, and my question was, alright. If I just look at WNBA Prism and run a filter of 500 sales and above, how many exist for each year WNBA Prism, was in existence?

And part of the re part of what I was trying to identify and figure out is what is, like what are the trends line trend lines tell us if we believe that Prism is the flagship brand? What can we learn by analyzing some of that data?

And so that was where I came from. Also, important call out, and this only applies to 2024. But I have removed all Caitlin Clark data from this dataset because it's gonna skew everything.

And last week, we talked about how there's two different markets, the WNBA and Caitlin Clark, and the participants intersect and intertwined.

But to get clean data for this, I've removed Caitlin Clark from the 2024 dataset. So this is what I found. $500 or more number of sales for each year.

So we're gonna start off with 2020, the debut prism. The data according to Card Ladder is there has been 328 sales that are $500 or more of that product. Obviously, this product has had the most time to marinate, to, breathe.

It is the first year, So you've got that from a collector perspective, but that is just a good starting point 03/1928. Now in 2021, the number shrinks dramatically to a 116 sales.

Then in 2022, it shrinks even or it it increases slightly to a 124 sales. 2023, it goes down to 82 sales. And then 2024, which is the last installment of the Prism product, non Caitlin Clark, there is 572 sales.

So 572 sales of the 2024 Prism product, more than surpasses and almost doubles 2020, which was the previous high. That's a lot of data. But, Caitlin, what does this data suggest to you?

Is it positive, negative, neutral? Like, what what comes to your mind as I'm going over this dataset? I think it's positive without a doubt. I don't think there's a way you could paint the picture to be negative or neutral.

I'm open to to feedback and an argument on that. But I think this really shows that without we're talking without Clark, we're still seeing a huge spike in 2024.

And that means that there's new buyers, new energy, new confidence in the market itself outside of Caitlin Clark, meaning that collectors are digging deeper beyond the surface.

And I think that, you know, we're obviously at the highest peak so far, and I'm excited to see what 2025 has in store.

But I I do wanna address the elephant in the room, which is that 2021 through 2023 was crickets comparatively to 2020 and 2024. And I think that is due to a myriad of reasons that we could go over.

But 2020, like you said, is kind of that flagship first product for 2020. It also had, Sabrina in it, and it's also COVID. So every it kinda was like a perfect storm for high dollar value sales and high quantity of those sales.

2024, obviously, the new rookie class. Beyond Caitlin Clark, I would say the rookies that came out of that class were very strong even without her.

If you take Caitlin Clark out of that class, they're still incredibly good players that would be generational, without her there.

And I fully believe that. And I think that that helps the rookie card of it all, and that's probably why we're seeing, a high volume of sales, obviously, with the attention that Caitlin Clark brought to them as well.

But I think the bottom line for me is that this is growth, and it's positive growth. It's not just hype.

But we have to keep going with the positive growth, and that we that means we need better whether that means quantity, I'm not sure, of better products, better storytelling, more story lines to follow in the WNBA, and consistent coverage, whether that's mainstream media, whether that's people like us in our podcast, or content creators in general in the hobby to continue to tell those stories and continue to promote, the WNBA card market.

I think we're gonna continue to see this number go up. I love the thoughts there. One more before we get into some card stuff. I'd I'd love to get your perspective on Caitlin.

Obviously, the $5. 72, $500 or more sales out of 2024 is the highest. And I'm assuming there's some Caitlin Clark effect surrounding that, just bringing new people in and then people digging in and it being the one product.

And it takes another step or two to be like, maybe I will go look back at the history of Prism. Mhmm. And so, this tells me with all these sales, as a collector, I'm like, okay.

Well, if this many high dollar sales are happening, why don't I just go back to 2020 and just dig in there and find the golds and all these cards that maybe haven't gotten the attention of some of this newer stuff yet?

And I think that's the logical move from a collector perspective, but I think one of the challenges and this is interesting.

And, maybe what's a little bit different from WNBA collecting to others is, like, this it's it's hard to find the stuff.

One, because the production was limited. But second, like, what I have learned from this community is, like, stuff gets buried in collections. And once it's in the collection, it doesn't necessarily come out.

So it it's not something you can just do. You can't just say, oh, I'm gonna go get, you know, the the I'm gonna bring up just because she's the first player that comes to my mind, and it's Caitlin's favorite player.

I'm gonna bring up, I can't go and get the, twenty twenty Kelsey Mitchell one of one black. It's just I can't just go do that.

So but I think that that tells me it's like the when the product comes out and you see something you like, like, go attack it because it might end up in a collection, and you might not have access to it again.

Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that's kind of the result of relative to other lanes, the opportunity cost of getting rid of it is not worth it for a lot of collectors because they see these cards as undervalued already.

So that Kelsey Mitchell Black from 2020, maybe they got it for $500, and now somebody's offering them $2,000. They're like, well, I think it's worth more than that already.

And I thought it was worth more than that when I bought it, so why would I sell it? And I think that that's kind of a mindset that exists in WNBA collecting more than other, lanes for sure.

This is one of the most compelling factors of the entire category. And this is, I'm not trying to put up the mister Gary v hype man right here, but in a way, I gotta tell you how I feel.

And when I buy a WNBA card, I have that feeling a lot. I I have this feeling of, oh, this just if this feels like it should be more than this.

And I think that along with the passion, that along with the interest, all those things combined makes for a a very, fun and, healthy collecting experience.

100%. And and to add on to that, I'll say this, WNBA collectors have been rewarded with that mindset over the past five to ten years. You could even go two years. I like, I bring this up all the time.

I remember buying Caitlin Clark autos for a $100 and saying to people, why aren't you buying these? Buy them. And then I would sell them for $200 and feel rich. Like, I was like, oh my god. Look at this flip, guys.

I made a $100. And it's like, well, damn, Caitlin. You should have been a little bit more patient there. But they've we've been rewarded, WMBA collectors, for holding and believing, and I think that's gonna continue.

There's no reason why they shouldn't be going up, just as if the as well as the league and and the attention on league, the cards will continue to go up in my opinion.

So, yeah, it's been interesting to watch. This data is very insightful. It makes me wanna go make a nice chart and think so, and apply some of my work, skills to it.

So maybe stay tuned for that. I I'm feeling inspired to to dig more into this data. Yeah. Yeah. Make sure you follow the WNBA card, pod on Instagram because I'm sure whatever Caitlin creates, it will be dropped there.

I wanted to close out this exercise by kinda moving into the market watch of it all, and it's these are cards that have sold, been there for a while.

But to give you all perspective to marry the data of how many $500 more sales with specific cards that are at the top of the leaderboard.

And I'm just I'm gonna go down the list, run through some cards, call them out, and then Caitlin maybe just get your perspective and reaction. We start here with twenty twenty.

We've got the Sabrina black gold rookie, and this is all from card ladder data, PSA 10. This sold, highest selling card from 2020 publicly public selling card sold in February nineteenth of twenty twenty three for $10,800.

This one's not as pretty for Patreon members because the, image is broken, but the highest sale out of '21 is a Sabrina.

But it's Sabrina's signature black one of one PSA 10 selling for 11,500, which is, it's a crazy sale. This sold in 2022. We've got, 2022, Taurasi signature gold vinyl one of one, PSA 10, selling for $4,500.

That's the $4,500. It's the highest sell sales selling card from 2022 Prism. Moving over to 2023, we've got Aliyah Boston, someone who I cheer for on a nightly basis.

Her twenty twenty three, gold vinyl, one of one, PSA 10, selling for $5,500. So you've got the twenty twenty, which is the rookie highest selling Sabrina.

Then you've got the 23, which is Boston, which is a rookie, which is the highest selling, and sandwiched in between there, are two sticker autos, which is one of ones, which is interesting.

Finally, 24 Cambrink Black Finite PSA nine. This thing sold for $16,287, and I believe is the highest selling non Caitlin Clark WNBA card of all time currently.

We talked about finites last episode, and Cameron Brink, although she's not playing, her popularity certainly continues to soar.

So wanted to run through those cards, highest seller from each of those years of Prism. Caitlin, what's your reaction to that? Oh my gosh. I have so many reactions. I'll start with the one that's on the screen for our Patreon watchers.

The Cameron Brink 2024, Black Finite Prism one of one and a PSA nine. This is not the variation. This is or quote, unquote variation. This is the action shot. And I wrote in my notes, quote, honey, get in.

We're going mainstream. And that's how I feel about this card. This is insane. Like, Cameron Brink has played, like, 10 games in the WNBA, and I love Cameron Brink. I think she's gonna be really good, guys.

Like, not to, like, hype up this card, but, like, she's gonna be really good. But still, like, she's only played 10 games, and she's not on a very, like, competitive team, respectively, like, or respectfully.

Like, it's not the Liberty or the Lynx or one of these teams that's expected to make a deep, playoff push.

She's just kinda chilling on the bench, raking in the sponsorship money, which is great, but almost over $15,000 for, Cameron Brink is just insane when we see Sabrina who's a it pain me I just, like, kinda like ah, that was painful.

We did we just pulled something back there. Sorry, guys.

She won a ring. She's proven that she can win. We also have DT in the middle here who is the GOAT and has a lot of respect from collectors. And then the final two, twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four, are the rookies of it all.

And I just think it's interesting to see that shift, in sales, and especially because the the prices are so much higher for these despite not being winners. Yeah.

But, jumping in, how like, what's crazy here is the PSA 10, Aliyah Boston, who I said this while we were watching, the fever on Sunday was a very dark day for me. I mean, I got the fever, and I'm not even gonna get into the finals.

I've been reserved, but it was a very bad day. Fever loss to the aces. But I I said to my family, we went over to my family's house. We're watching the fever game. I I we were talking about Boston.

I was just like, you know, you just, like, every day, just, like, game just, like, look at her box scores, and you'll just be like, man, like, look at that game she had. And she's just, like, consistently solid.

I think at the time of the recording, she's leading the WNBA and field goal percentage. Just a really nice player, all star caliber player. But every time I watch her, I'm like, she she still has room to get even better, which is crazy.

But I think this is, like, so the hobby. It's like her best card ever. And this again, it pains me because this was chilling for 10 k on eBay for a while.

This card so it sells for 5,500, and she's way more accomplished than Cam Brink. And this Cam Brink, although Blackfinite, which might have its premium and this and that, selling for 16 k.

It just is like, that's so hobby to me. You know? Yeah. It's very hobby. I think that's a good way to to cap off this discussion.

This was a fun exercise as as well. I just shot up card letter for this data to be able to visualize it and really see it in real time is is exciting, especially for an emerging market that doesn't have as much, coverage.

Yes. And I for all you, WNBA fans, we didn't quite leave out league talk. Maybe we'll just spend a brief moment. I knew we were gonna have big topics, so I didn't want it to dominate the conversation.

Yeah. Get into a little bit. Yeah. Let's get into a little bit of it. How about we each pick out one thing that kinda stuck out to us this past week that we wanna highlight, and we can we can make it semi quick.

Do you wanna start, or do you want me to go? Yeah. I'll just say, Satu Sabali just I think is continuing to be one of my favorite players to watch and a player that I didn't have a lot of high expectations for.

I honestly didn't have high expectations for the Mercury with all the turnover, although I should have known better because it seems like Alyssa Thompson is the straw that, Thomas is the straw that, stirs the drink.

And I didn't think that they could coexist, but, we're seeing, Saboli's best year. She's have she is averaging 19 points a game. It just seems like every time I turn on the Mercury, she is a problem for any team she's trying to play.

And, yeah, I just think she's worthy of someone who I wasn't expecting to enjoy watching this year, but I'm really enjoying watching.

And, honestly, to if you were to say, like, who are, like, the five best players you've watched consistently this year, she would likely be a part of that conversation.

Oh, I like it. Satu is known as the unicorn, I believe, and that's a good description of her play style. If you guys haven't watched any tape, she's from Germany, has a lot of European influence in her game.

She plays bully basketball with AT down in Phoenix. And, yeah, they've been fun to watch. They've been also winning a lot of games. So, very impressive, and that's a good shout.

I I won't shout, I suppose, a specific player, but I'm gonna shout out the 2025 rookie class. I think that this class is very special, especially given the tough act to follow with the 2024 class.

Obviously, headlined by Caitlin Clark, followed by Cameron Brink, Cardoso, Jackson, Sheldon, Reese, Edwards. Like, the the names continue to go on and on, and those are household names in WNBA WMEA fan households.

So I think that, you know, the 2025 class had a lot of, big big shoes to follow to, to follow. And I think that three are really impressing me, which is Paige Beckers, Kiki Iriyafin, and Sonia Citron.

Just playing at a very high level, even take out the rookie of it all, they're playing at a higher level. They're just really surpassing my expectations.

And beyond that, I think the 2025 class is similarly deep to the 2024 class. We've got kind of like back to back generational classes, which I think is great for the hobby and great for cards.

And I'll just throw out a couple more under the radar names from this class that I think are important to call out as we watch the league, which is Pow Pow from the dream, Fagan on, the Sparks is playing really well, Molonga on the storm, Saniya Rivers, Sarah Ashley Barker, HBL, Isaiah James.

Aliyah Nye is showing out for the aces second round or third round pick, not with high expectations, just balling out and getting respect from Asia as well. The names continue on and on. Maddie Westfeld, JJ Quinerly.

Just names that, you know, I knew about because I follow the NCAA a lot, but I don't really have high expectations for rookies in the w because it's so competitive and the rosters are so tight, that opportunities are not handed out.

I I could not be more impressed with this class, especially, like I said, given the the pressure from the previous class to perform.

So I suppose that's kind of my league talk is if you don't have a rookie, that you're following, pick one out.

They're performing really well, and it's just exciting, especially with the the awards, towards the end of the season. I think they're gonna be more competitive than people think. Quick one back at you.

Paige, Kiki, Sonya have dominated our rookie conversation. Outside of those three, who is your, like, next like, who is your next, like, follow? Like, the this player is interesting me the most out of the rookie group.

Sanaya Rivers. Yeah. On the sun. Yeah. I think we've said I'm an honorary Wolfpack fan. She hails from NC State, who I was cheering for throughout the NCAA tournament.

They had a great trio of guards, who can just really play. Saniya Rivers really long, really quick. She can shoot. She can get to the hoop. I think she is so underrated, and I'm I'm glad she's on a team that hopefully can get better.

But, yeah, I would say if she if she was on a different team, we'd be talking about her a lot more. You can see the future all star potential in just not even a quarter of a season, which is fun.

Absolutely. Well, that's that's what I have for league talk. I could continue on and on about rookies and and keep doing that, but let's let's move on.

Britt and I didn't have pickups for this week. I'm sorry to disappoint you all, but I'm very excited to get into my favorite segment of each week, which is the collector spotlight.

This one means a lot to me. Like I said, we're on our season finale here, and we're shouting at shouting out at m j s underscore sports cards.

You may have heard this username once or twice in the mailbag, because, Mark contributes a lot to and listens to a lot of our our podcast episodes.

So I I do wanna go on a little bit of a rant here about at MJS Sports Cards and why I picked, him as our collector of the week.

So Mark's a great hobby friend. I actually met him at my first national in Chicago. And I went by myself, to the national for one full day, and I was kind of scared about going by myself.

And I ended up sitting next to, Mark at a hobby trade night just out of chance. And he was nothing but welcoming and kind and wanted to know everything that there was about my collecting style and who I was collecting.

I sat down with, you know, some very humble, card collections, a box of cards, and I talked to Zeer off as much as he would let me and and I hope he got to say his piece as well.

But he was one of the nicest guys that I met at my first national, and it really defined my experience. I followed him on Instagram, and we've stayed in touch.

He also turned out to be a big WNBA fan from Tennessee where they don't necessarily have a pro team. So it seems to me that he seems to be leaning towards, the Atlanta Dream and Alicia Gray, and his Instagrams really showcases that.

Brett is showing for our our Patreon viewers the 2024 Select Alicia Gray Black Finite one of one, just an amazing card.

We could go on and on and list with his cool cards. He also, I think, has the same card, but for to pair with it, I think that's an awesome pairing.

And he also completed the blanks blank slate run, which is just so awesome. So I would encourage everybody to smash follow at m j s underscore sports cards.

Just a great guy in the hobby, and I I this one means a lot to me to to cap off our our season one. Mark's been a just very engaged participant of stacking slabs for a long time, but and I just wanna read his quote.

Comparison is the thief of joy, but I do really want that grail you have, which I think is really good. So, Mark, thank you, man. We appreciate you tuning in, engaging, and it means a ton. Absolutely. That was a fun one.

Well, why don't we round season one out with some listener questions with the mailbag? We have a lot to choose from. I'll let you, Brett, guide us through these for our last I did not look at these in advance, so this is gonna be fun.

I am going to just go from the top. We've got one from NYC Hoops Collector. The question is, is the 18 Rittenhouse verse 19 Donerous for Asia, the new 84 star verse 86 MJ, true rookie debate?

Oh my goodness. We're bringing this over to w cards. What do what do you what do you what's your reaction to this question?

My reaction was I never thought about it like that before, and I appreciate the parallels that you're drawing across lanes. But as of now, I don't see this being a discussion point.

I think most people recognize the 2018 Rittenhouse as the true Ricky card. And until, some real panini or Don Ross propaganda continues to be spread. I think it's gonna stick with the 2018 Rittenhouse. I think, yeah, I agree.

And I think what's interesting though is this topic, which maybe we explore at a further date of if we're not into the rookie the the what's available from a rookie card perspective, what does, like, buying in on a first year of a known set look like?

And I think about this, like, transition from Rittenhouse to to Panini and just decisions collectors have to make.

And a Britney house might not appeal to someone, so then they might go chase the Gold Hollow out of, Donerous, and that might be their card. It it it really just to to me, it just matters, like, whatever you like the the best.

But in terms of, like, stating rookie card, I think it's really hard to say that the Rittenhouse isn't the the rookie card based on the time frame and year it came out.

Ditto. Okay. Next one. Mark with his question. MJS sports cards, Brett and Caitlin's biggest w card slash player disagreement. Okay. This this is funny. Go ahead, Caitlin. I'm looking at notes right now.

In my notes, it says, can we please talk about Kelsey Mitchell? So, folks, I am so sorry if you're a fever fan, if you're a Kelsey Mitchell fan. First of all, I was raised by a Michigan man and taught not to appreciate Ohio State.

So Kelsey Mitchell hails from Ohio State automatically gets minus one points. Then I go and I watch the fever games, and I say to myself, I cannot stand watching this.

It's just too much for me. I feel like we're running all over the place. We're just jacking up shots, and they go in. Do not get me wrong. They go in, and she was at the top of the store the scoring, you know, list in NCAA.

Respect. Respect. She's just not my kind of player. And every time I, message Brett, I'm always like, who is voting for Kelsey Mitchell for MVP right now?

Why or whatever the odds are. It's like Kelsey Mitchell is above Alicia Gray in MVP odds right now, and I was like, if you're taking this bet, you need to get checked out by a doctor as soon as possible, folks.

So this has been a point that Brett and I talk about a lot jokingly. So I was very happy that Mark brought this up, and we could finally discuss the Kelsey Mitchell of it all.

My my my, my feelings about Kelsey Mitchell, they're it's like a roller coaster. Begin I've I've tried to, like, think about this, and it very much revolves around one factor, and that is Caitlin Clark.

My opinion is that the production and the value that Kelsey Mitchell brings the fever, it is a lot higher when Caitlin Clark is facilitating and getting her in her spots.

And Mitchell's one of the fastest players in the league, downhill runner.

She can hit the three. She's got a lot of nice qualities, but it's about the setup. And Clark is able to do that with Mitchell. And in my opinion, Mitchell is a higher level player when Clark is on the floor.

Now that goes off the rails a bit when Clark is not there because we've got Mitchell who's trying to get in creator mode and dribbling it around and running around.

And when she's trying to create for herself, it doesn't always end up the best.

So I have a great shot, Kelsey. Way to knock it down. We needed that. And I'll be like and then I'll have, like, choice words when she does something that I don't necessarily like.

Uneniable, like, she's an all star level player, but, yeah, she can she can be frustrating, to watch, but she could also be very exciting too.

So I think that's a good call out. This was a fun one. Thank you, Mark, for letting me talk about Kelsey Mitchell openly, and I appreciate feedback from anybody, to to convince me otherwise.

But right now, I'm I'm I'm stuck in my position on Kelsey Mitchell. Alright. Do do you wanna take the next one? Because this is, like, all you.

This is, like, I really exciting. I like this question. Yeah. So from at black hat underscore cards, AKA the villain collector, was Alyssa Peely a better pick for the Minnesota lynx than the mebound queen AKA Angel Reese.

And for anybody that wasn't aware, the Lynx traded out of, I believe, the seven o number seven overall pick to the sky, which is where Angel Reese ended up being drafted.

So in theory, the links could have drafted Angel Reese. That brings me great pain as a Minnesota links fan.

I think about how good Angel Reese is, and her ability to spread the defense is second to none. I think if you coupled Angel Reese with Nafissa Collier on the court, it would be impossible to stop.

And while Keeley has a lot of room to grow, I have not seen her meet the expectations of, the number eight overall pick. Or when I compare the two players, it's not even close.

So while I like Alyssa Peely, and I think she's cool, and I think, you know, she has some some real potential, I am disappointed that we did not take the Midtown queen from both a on the court, but also off the court presence.

I imagine the covers of Angel Reese and Anthony Edwards on Minnesota magazines would go so hard.

It would be just an awesome pairing. So definitely disappointed, but I guess we can't regret what we didn't do. I'm just gonna let I'm gonna let you take that one, and we'll move on to the next one.

Bliss trading cards. Do you think Sonya will win rookie of the year? I'll start. No. I think it's going to be Paige. Although because Paige is playing very, very well. She's if you're not following along, you should be.

She's a fun watch. But I I did I think I saw some propaganda from you, Caitlin, and I'm just gonna call it out. If anyone was watching the, Mystic's, speaking of which, it was the Sonya versus Paige matchup.

Yeah. Wings versus Mystics. Sonya, forty one minutes, 27 points, nine for 13 from the floor, four for seven from three, eleven rebounds. I mean And and the game winning shot.

Game winning shot. So, like, I again, I say this, obviously, fan Notre Dame connection. I was not expecting what we're seeing at this level, but that's what I love about players getting drafted and just getting thrown into the w.

It's pretty cool. Yeah. It's awesome. I have to agree with Brett. While I was spewing Sonya propaganda, I think that Paige Paige also made a game tying three to send it to overtime in that game.

So they both had their moments, in that game in particular. I think they're both very talented, but I think Paige's efficiency is beyond Sonya's.

I think Paige is setting more records. I think I saw she's the fastest WNBA player to hit 200 points, 50 assists, and 50 rebounds in a season or something like that.

And that's just like greatness happening. And just because people aren't paying attention to the wings doesn't mean that Paige isn't playing incredibly well.

Should we do a should we do a whole other podcast on the coach, DM dynamic and the players? I think we could do a whole Dallas Wings, a page year one subseries podcast.

Literally, we could we could really talk the listeners here off there. Alright. Last question. World cards. Curious on your opinions on where you draw the line for aesthetics versus significance.

Would you reject the card entering your collection because it doesn't look nice even if it has a player hobby significance, example, rookie badge, namely the premier levels for this past year select.

But can you expand beyond this? My answer is really easy.

It's gotta I gotta like the way it looks. I like have to like the aesthetics. If I don't like that, then even if it's significant, I'm not gonna spend the money because that probably means it's gonna cost a lot to to purchase it.

I've gone through that rodeo before of buying cards that I think were significant, but I don't think looked cool, and I end up just selling them.

So that's kind of a hard rule that I've created for myself. 100% echo the same thing, and I think the key part of this question is entering your collection.

It's your collection. Why would I bring something into my collection that I don't like to look at? That just doesn't make any sense for me personally.

And if you're letting the mainstream hobby or some other source tell you what is significant, and making your purchasing decisions, because of that, I would urge you to challenge that mindset and go with what you truly believe to be something that fits your collection and your style.

Pretty good, closeout of this run of the WNBA card podcast.

Wanna thank everyone for tuning in. Caitlin, well done. We'll we'll have more for listeners, next week, so make sure you tune in. But, any closing remarks before we get on out of here?

Nothing too much, but thank you guys so much. 12 episodes. It was a blessing to be able to do this and bring you guys this content. I hope you enjoyed, and we're excited to continue to bring you guys this kind of content.