Okay. We've got another episode of the staging area with DC Sports eighty seven and Tory coming at you.

A lot of fun topics to dig into. I think this, episode will be ton, full of tons of energy and, good banter. Tory, it's been a minute since we last spoke, although I've been following your content on Instagram. How are you?

How's it going? Good. Doing really well. I'm still getting used to people saying that. Like, I keep seeing you on Instagram. You know, we've we've never deemed ourselves content people, but we're, we're certainly making a push for it.

So no. I would say my, my national hangover is fully worn off, rested again, back to normal business, but things are busy. So doing very well. There are so many cards coming at you and coming your way.

And I know it'll be the auction will have ended by the time this goes live, but I I noticed you did a video on a high gloss Young Guns, McDavid, which is not a card you see every day.

And it it caused me to go in this rabbit hole of, like, exploring how cool that card is and just, like, the values of that card.

You're seeing this stuff regularly, whether it's the McDavid or something else. Is there been anything kind of post national that's come through that's caused you to stop in your tracks? Yeah. I I'd say two.

So McDavid is one for sure. I think if there's a there's a one a, one b to, like, what card is the most relevant, iconic to, like, a player in their sport, it's like first chrome prospect in baseball, young guns in hockey.

And so for a guy at his level who's playing that way, he's clearly considered the best in the game right now, and he's not that old. I mean, he's been around for, what, nine, ten years now, so it's been a while.

But, number to 10, like, yeah, just awesome awesome piece. I told you my guess is in the high 60 thousands. We'll we'll see where it ends up, but that's a special one just because we'll probably never see another one.

And the second would be we sold a Tim Duncan, a BGS 9. 5 of his 02/1213, so first year Prism Gold, for $28,000. This was just like a week ago.

And it's just it I think those cards are cool to me because, you know, we we both went through the COVID bubble. So we've we've played this roller coaster game, and I remember the days of base Prism cards doing stupid money.

But it's cool that, like, the icons of sports in the really hard to find stuff from those really iconic sets, like, that value hasn't gone anywhere. May maybe it's not quite as crazy as it once was, but, it's cool.

You know, you don't think of, like, a that gold prism card doing that, but there was that Brady recently that sold for, like, a couple 100,000 from 2013 or '14 and now this one.

So those were the two that kinda jumped out, among the many tens of hundreds of thousands that have been flowing through here.

I wanna maybe touch on both of those a little bit more. So I love this about content. It's I didn't realize that card was sold through DC Sports, but then I saw in case sports cards who was is the new owner of that card post about it.

And it got me really excited, and it was one of those things where I was like, I didn't realize Duncan had a card in that set when I should have.

It was just like one of those players in the massive set. Then I got to thinking, I'm like, man, greatest power forward ever, Debut, gold prism.

There's no one of one, so that's his best card in that set. And looking at the price tag, I don't know. It it got me to think about, yeah, the player matters, but certainly, the brand matters, and first year matters a lot.

So you kinda led with, like, it's a non rookie card. It's a vet card. How do you think about that in terms of value when you've got just such a premium, set like a prism, which has been the flagship of this era, and, like, a debut year.

How do you think about just overall collectability? Do you think, like, rookie cards matter less, and just, like, the set will always carry a premium, or maybe something different.

Yeah. I think that's true. I think, I don't think rookie cards matter less, but I think they each have, things that make them unique and things that drive up demand.

And, look, look, we know how many products come out these days. We know how many cards there are, you know, changing hands all the time, but supply and demand rules everything. And so, you know, some people might say, wow.

What is a, you know, a Prism Gold doing selling for that much? It's like, well, supply and demand says it should. This guy's a a top 10 player all time, best power forward all time. That set is gonna be famous forever.

You know? And then we start talking, you know, how are we gonna look at things like Prism differently when Panini loses the license? And is there something else that kinda rolls in there with the the demand for the original Prizm set?

So, yeah, it's definitely unique, but, you know, it's not the first time we've seen this either. You know, if you think back, I mean, her classic example is Mickey Mantle's rookie cards in 1951, not '52.

What's the card we all know? It's the 52 tops. So there's something for that. The first year of a popular set, things that just carry so much, demand every time they come out.

So, not a surprise that this car absolutely killed it. Glad it's in good hands now. But it was just one of those that comes in. You're like, wow.

I know this car is gonna do amazing. And then I just take that cursory look at the auction each day from the office. Oh, $5, $10, 15. Alright. We're getting serious. We're at 25. And so it was cool to see it do that well.

And then maybe with the McDavid, I think even non hockey card collectors are familiar with young guns and familiar with that kind of card being the card upper deck produces to kinda catapult these, young stars.

But I never really hear much conversation outside of, like, the young gun PSA 10 digging into the parallels and, obviously, high glosses out of 10, which is a with a player like McDavid, it's like, man, that that this card is, like, super in demand.

You don't see it regularly. Do you, like I don't know. Like, why do you think that is just in terms of the familiarity around, like, the parallel with the young guns?

It just doesn't seem like it's talked about or in our face as much as, like, the Bowman stuff. Yeah. For one, I think there's just fewer of them. I mean, we've got the, you know, exclusives to a 100. You've got high gloss to 10.

There's, like, the canvas cards out there, but it's not the parallel craze of Bowman where we went from having, you know, red, orange, gold, blue, purple, and refractor back in the day to now having, like, seven colors of xfractors and six different angles of lava lamp ray like, there's just so much out there now.

So I think you just, for one, supply is shorter. And two, I think a lot just hit PCs and go away.

It's like there's just not that many out there. So, especially with a card like this, you know, there might be somebody telling themselves they're gonna hold it for another decade or two and see, does he win a few cups or what?

So we'll see. But, yeah, I mean, definitely, an iconic card.

Crazy to think that it came out ten years ago. Crazy to think that the Ovi and Crosby set was now twenty years ago. So who knows? Maybe maybe 2025, '26 this year, I'll have something we look back on here in a while.

But, yeah, definitely a a special card. So you mentioned the, National Hangover has subsided, which is good. That would be an awfully long hangover. Has it what post show I know we're, you know, several weeks removed from it.

Has there been anything happening just from a hobby perspective, storyline, new news, anything that's kinda grabbed your attention, stuff you're thinking about? Yeah. So, a couple.

I'd say one is, you know, this whole PSA SGC grading transition and some of the news around, you know, them kinda scaling SGC back and, you know, the public comments that say, well, it's gonna be a boutique brand and, you know, they just don't wanna overextend with that one.

And all I hear is it's eventually going away. I you know, I I don't know anything to say that that's true, but it's just you know, we always said PSA was king, and it's like they're they're way more king now.

I mean, look what happened with Beckett. Look what's happened with SGC now slowing down.

It's like, you know, they just they've got such a grip on it that it's hard to imagine them not just putting all the resources of that machine from PSA and SGC and everywhere towards that brand.

So, interesting there just because I've heard a lot of people talking about it and, you know, as SGC, you know, they fear maybe is getting phased out.

Does that mean sell your stuff? Do you hold your stuff? If you've been a, you know, a classic SGC person, what do you do?

And so, yeah, I'm you know, my PC stuff is all PSA. I I just think they're the gold standard of it, so I'm I'm not changing there. But, I know a lot of people love the aesthetic of the SGC slab, and I do agree it looks great.

And so, yeah, just between that and then the licensing stuff and just, you know, some of the announcements around what is or is not gonna come out as far as, like, Topps football products for the last unlicensed year and how's that transition look.

So, yeah, those are the two just kinda interesting noise here because there's so many different takes. What are the the corporate kinda spokespeople say versus what is the hobby thing and stuff like that.

So, yeah. Those are two for me. With the licensing stuff is I I get shared information, and I still can't, like, wrap my head around with, like, when stuff is moving around.

And then I look at Panini, and it's like, is there going to be another prism set in football? And then I see them pushing out, prism black, which is a new product that's coming out.

Do you do you feel like you have a grip on, this is when we stop, this is when we start, and maybe release cycle what's happening in between. Do you do you have any idea, like, how it's all shaking out?

It seems like it's changing. Oh, I feel like what I keep hearing from football is 2025 will be very limited releases for tops, while Panini has their last license year, and then '26, they'll go all in.

But I will admit, I don't follow this so in the weeds to know all that.

And then every time I hear one take on it, you'll hear something about how there's some legal fight over, you know, can we get cards signed and use those as redemptions or whatever.

So I I don't know. I feel like that's such a mess right now. I'm interested. I am no expert, though. So admittedly, I'm, I'm probably about where you are on that one.

Alright. Before we jump into the kind of the the main seg and the main conversation, wanted to give you some space if there's anything, DC sports updates, news, anything you're working on that you wanna share with the audience.

Yeah. Just a a few things for us. I know we've talked a lot about content and things, but, a few things we're kinda leaning into that'll be coming later this year.

For one, we're gonna start eBay live selling pretty soon. So we're gonna be working with the guys at, Sports Cars Nonsense.

Mike Gio is gonna come, kinda do that in partnership with us out of our office here. So we're gonna start some more, like, carefully curated inventories. So we're gonna start, late September with a high end football live selling event.

So looking forward to that. You know, we are always about volume and just growing and growing, and this is less about that. This is more about just a cool channel.

EBay's put a ton of resources into this and is really pushing it right now and to interact a little bit more with some of the buyers to have a more, you know, kind of face to face, the live selling environment's kind of a new one for us, so lean into that a bit.

And then we're also looking for later this year, we're gonna start doing some on-site same day consignments on release day with some of our break partners. As products come out, list them that night immediately after the break.

So, yeah, just a a couple new angles for us, kinda related to stuff we already do, but excited to to get there and definitely will share more as those both take shape.

I wanna get your perspective on live selling. Walking into the national, it was certainly everywhere. EBay was pushing eBay live big time. Obviously, there's so many other platforms that are pushing live selling.

How are you thinking about live selling right now? Obviously, you're you're running a program with, at at your space with, Mike and the Sports Card Nonsense team to to kinda jump into it.

But, like, how do you think about live selling in relation to everything kind of you're you're already doing with consignments?

Yeah. So I think it's it's very different. You know, our the big appeal to me and what I like about it is it's way more event based.

And so with a live event, it's easy to say, hey. We're going live the Sunday night of week three of the season, right as football's kinda hitting its stride.

We're gonna do mid and high end football. We'll be live from these hours, and so it's more of a community promoted, easy to market event where it's alright.

We're all gonna get in a room. We can give some previews about what's coming available for sale and just kinda do it at the time. So I like that. I like that you can be a little more, reactive, but in a good way.

You know, what is the what are the people in the room wanting to buy? What do they wanna see? We can make some changes on the fly with what we're offering in a live selling environment.

Whereas our core business, which it's always gonna be, is just those core eBay auctions running every single day. And, we do great with those. It's what our business is built around.

It's a great service for our customers, but there are definitely some nuances and engagement things and ways to interact with people that just aren't available with just an option kinda running on its own on autopilot.

And so that's what we're excited about getting into is being able to do more and just have more options and more flexibility with kind of that live environment.

I love it. I'm looking for looking forward to seeing that rollout. I, wanna get into a video that you posted that made me laugh, and it made me think. And that's I was consuming it. I was like, well, I'm talking with Tory this week.

Let's talk about it a little further. So the topic here is maybe worst sets ever, and you had a post about the 24, 25 finest, top's finest unlicensed basketball product that just released.

And I'm gonna put it up on the screen for the Patreon, users. But you you compete you compared it to Saved by the Bell.

When I first saw it, I thought Taco Bell. So there's some bell involved with the nineties nostalgia and the old look and feel. But, Tory, this this just it I've done a lot of look, unfortunately. And it's just it looks very, very bad.

So I think it's cool because you sell cards on behalf of other people. People break new product. They send you cards, but you still felt like, you know what? I'm going to talk about why this product maybe is not so great.

So let's get into it. Maybe talk about, like, the inspiration for the video, the Saved by the Bell of it all, and just what we're seeing here. Yeah. So I think, you know, you and I have talked about this before.

I've talked to the guys on the SCN pod and some other groups we work closely with. Just kind of the, like, the art of designing a set. And don't get me wrong. I am not qualified to do it. I am not a create creative design person.

But you have to look at it and say, does this look like we did our best work? Right? And this is just one of those sets where it's like, you just look at the background, there's no basketball court, there's no crowd, there's no nothing.

There's just a player, a photoshopped player, because not licensed. And look, not licensed products can come out looking fine. They've got their place, they can be done right. We talked about this with cosmic football.

But there's other sets like this where it's just I just photoshopped the logo off a jersey, put it on, and then went with, like, this saved by the bell, Taco Bell, like, nineties neon windbreaker look in the background.

And it just, you know, it just makes you wonder because what really blows my mind, and this is why I, like, actually posted about it. So I first threw our story, and I got a ton of comments back on the DC Sports 87 page about, wow.

You're right. This is terrible. Yeah. A few very angry people like, you guys sell these. How can you say that? I was like, well, you know what?

I can be honest with people about what they should buy. We can be honest about how products look, and at the end of the day, the demand in the market's gonna say what it sells for, not some comment I make.

But you just look at it and you say, okay. Look at all the things tops and fanatics have done.

The debut patch, the leaning into tops now with some amazing relic pieces, some of the great designs we're seeing in other sets on some of their license lines, and then you see this. And it just makes you ask, like, how did we get here?

They're not, you know, they're not strapped for resources. They have nailed products in the past. And so it's just funny to me that I could pull up '96, '97, '98, top's finest basketball, and they're just some gorgeous sets.

And then we fast forward twenty years, and, you know, I pulled up paint on my desktop and flooded the bright colors and slapped a player picture on top.

So I don't, you know, I'm I'm rambling about it, but it's just one of those. It really just makes you wonder. And so it was it was worth having some fun and saying something on our social just to see what people thought.

Is this a confirmation for you that no matter what gets released, if it has, like, you know, a major manufacturer on it, people are going to whether it's breaks or just hobby boxes, people are going to to buy it and give it a chance?

Yeah. And I think that's it's for a few things.

You know, one, a new set comes out. If you're a hardcore PC guy or you just really have something you wanna chase, you're gonna chase at at least once. And two, we revolve so much around breakers these days.

And when new product gets out to breakers, they're gonna sell those breaks. People are gonna hop in. I would you know, I'm not expecting this to rise in price like some sets do after they come out because they do so well.

But, there are just so many channels that even if a set doesn't look, at least in my humble opinion, great or good or adequate, you know, like, people are still gonna buy in on to some level.

So, yeah, I I do think they're still gonna sell. I don't think it's worth the sticker price, but, you know, I guess to be seen what the market says.

Did, this had me going down a rabbit hole of, is this the most putrid set I've ever seen? And it it it's definitely up there. It's early, but it's up there.

Do you have any other examples of sets just aesthetically that had made you cringe a little bit in the past? Well, I I feel like it's kind of a, like, let's compare what you did do to what you can do, and it's probably the widest gap.

You know, I could go back and, like, I did not like, like, I'm a baseball guy at heart, grew up collecting baseball cards.

So, like '91 Fleer baseball with a solid yellow background and a name up top and some kind of photography on it, I was not a fan.

But I look at that and I go that was also almost thirty five years ago. And a lot of the sets back then, we just had, you know, basic matte paper look on tops, fleer, Don Russ cards, and, you expected a lot less.

So I think, relative to what I expect of a product these days and what a box sells for, this probably falls the shortest to me.

Yeah. I think about and it's as I'm comparing and contrasting, like, the first thing that came to my mind is, like, 2015 Topps Chrome Football. Like, the last year they did it before they lost license to Panini.

And I just don't like the way those cards look. They just it feels like it it's mailed in. But then when I compare it side by side to this, I'm like, those cars actually look great.

So that's why I continue to come back to being like, man, this set certainly is it good. Do you I don't what do you obviously, the unlicensed doesn't help this.

But when you think of, like, overall aesthetically bad looking sets, what are all the things that you think factor into that? Obviously, at the end of the day, we look at something and it makes us feel a certain way.

But what do you think the things are that are off when we don't like the way things look? Yeah. I think it just anytime it's missing somewhere. Right? So we can talk about licensing.

Well, if you use photography that doesn't highlight the fact that it's not licensed, you can kinda overcome that one. Or maybe you talk about, the aesthetics and overall design of the card. It's okay. Well, does it pop?

And that what really caught my eye with these was some of them are a little better when you see some of, like, the insert sets and things, but, like, those base cards that are just, like, refractors or blues, and it's, like, 80% of the background is just one solid blue color with no background image or anything.

It's like it's definitely the sum of the parts. I can't look at one thing and say it's just licensing, just photography, just color, just design.

But when you feel like it falls short everywhere, it's crazy how how much it can jump out at you that it doesn't feel like enough. So it it all has to work in tandem. You know, it all goes together.

Alright. Let's quickly move away from this and never talk about it again. I wanna talk about we we alluded to it upfront, but just like some of the work you're doing, obviously, we're talking on a podcast.

You're in other spaces. You're spending more time on Instagram. You're doing videos. This is something that DC Sports hasn't really done in the past, but has an emphasis on it now.

Why do you think, like, right now in this spot and in this zone, like, humanizing your brand by showing your face and sharing kinda content and information?

Like, why do you think that's important, and why are you prioritizing that right now? Yeah. So kind of a two part answer, and I kinda have to go back to the beginning of DC Sports Eighty Seven.

So, in the beginning, it was just me and Zach Kamen, who's my brother-in-law, and we were kinda there at the beginning starting this together.

And it was all really built off him. He he had all these connections with our main customers and getting things growing. There was just that personal level of trust that made you comfortable buying into a break or consigning a card.

And as the business grew, we realized you can't lean on one person because you can't really scale and grow that. It becomes limiting at a certain point.

So we built our website, and we built a customer support platform that wasn't just Facebook messages or text messages so that we could have multiple people involved. And so over time, we kind of lost a face by design.

We wanted to be a bigger company, add people, offer better services, but not depend on one person getting a text message at night at night. We had to have a team that could support things. And so that went really well.

And then where we kinda got to was the point that especially with the way the market and culture and society and people interact these days, we needed to lean back into content, but humanizing it in the sense that content is out there as the vehicle that builds our connections with customers.

And that's the way we're looking at it is content is so it's not easy to produce well, but it's an easy channel to get access to.

And so for us, leaning into Instagram reels or posting featured cards from our customers, doing more podcasts, doing some of these appearances like the eBay live break I did at the National.

It's just a great way to be able to talk that's a lot more organic, and it lets us connect with people. And I feel like as we've leaned into that, we get more questions on Instagram.

We get stopped in the halls of the national and things like that because we've just I think you create the perception of availability, of knowledge, and of just being interesting, like just not being a robot.

And, in doing that, it's really let us connect better with the people that are already working with us as well as find new people to work with.

So, yeah, you know, living more in that space has just been a great value to the business. And it's also just goes to the fact you have to work for everything.

And if you work to put yourself out there, you can always find new and interesting people, whether those are customers, partners, with, you know, other people in the content space.

So, yeah, long winded answer there, but it's just it's really just born more fruit for us the more we've leaned into it over the last year or so.

And so it's just gonna be a a continued trend for us as a business. I think what you're doing is certainly maybe the exception right now.

You're not the only business who's, you know, getting out front and center, but I feel like there's far fewer than there are that are sitting back and just kind of, you know, leaning into the their logo and not the people behind the logo.

You obviously you you talked about the transition and why. Was there, like, a was there a specific moment in just the business where you realized maybe this is an advantage if we start getting more out in front and center.

I guess, I'm just, like, looking for some feedback for you for anybody out there who you know, whether you're just setting up at shows or maybe you're starting a business, like, why other, you know, people in who are invested in the hobby should consider more of a proactive humanized approach to, you know, engaging with their customers.

Yeah. I I wouldn't say a specific moment, but I can say if we go back probably about a year, I think in the last year, we've been a lot more intentional about you know, beginning it was literally just, hey.

We got a really cool card in. Let's share it on Instagram. And then we started sponsoring the SCN pod and me talking to those guys a few times.

And then, you know, you and I started doing this, and we've gotten a little more into social content. And so, as we've invested more there, we are more and more often getting the, hey. I've always wondered about consignment.

I heard you guys talking on this podcast. Here's my question. Or the Instagram DM that's, hey. That's a really cool card. I have one similar. I have not had any idea how to sell it. You tell me how you guys' process works.

And so, I I don't know what barrier exactly we're overcoming, but I can confidently say that as we've been out there more, whether that's me or others on our team showing face, talking more on social media, posting more, we are getting more questions about people curious about who we are and what we do, and that naturally just lets us grow.

We you know, it's it's new customers coming to us where all we just have to do is just be out there. And by being out there, they're willing to kinda meet us halfway.

It's like, alright. We went out there enough to be accessible. They'll take the other step to connect, and from there, we can go a long way. Love it. That's great feedback.

And when I'm talking with business owner and operators like you, I always inter in trying to I try to make the connection with the audience of saying, you know, these individuals run these businesses, but nine times out of 10, if not more, they're also collectors.

And I know you've certainly talked about you being a collector and being a collector for a while.

And even in this episode, you alluded to being mostly a baseball card collector, but we haven't necessarily talked about you as the collector yet.

So I wanna maybe dig into that and understand, like, how long like, what's your run been and, like, the cycles of it and primarily, like, what do you like, today, like, what are you focusing on?

What what do you what is part of your collection? Yeah. Sure. So, it started long ago. I'm I'm gonna be 40 next month, so I'm I'm feeling really old these days. Join the club, pal.

Yeah. So I I started collecting in the early nineties when I was, you know, probably six, seven, eight years old. The first set I ever thought was just the coolest thing ever was when finest came out in '93 for the first year.

Now, you know, at the time, it was interesting because I go to my LCS at the time and I would, you know, rip a few packs with whether it was allowance money or money I made cutting a lawn or whatever it was.

And it was just it's so different what it was now to what it is then.

You know, there was no whatnot, YouTube fanatics live. Right? We went to the local shop. You bought a few packs. You went home with the cards or you sold them back to the shop owner for probably 40%. He was probably crushing us as kids.

Who knows? And and that was just how I got into it. And it was, you know, collecting players I liked and things. There was no eBay. There was no flipping them. It was trading with my friends or throwing them in a binder.

I just had a blast doing it. These days, I have very specific things I collect because my rule for myself is if I can't display it in my office where I am sitting right now, I don't own it.

I don't want boxes and boxes of things that build up that I never look at because it's not worth having the money tied up there or just not getting to enjoy them.

So, I have a handful of things for me. My big ones are of a big Andrew Jones guy. So he was my favorite player growing up. So I've got PMGs.

Maybe one of my favorite cards I own is his 99 LeerBrilliance 24 karat gold, which is one of my favorite Parallel Sensor sets of all time. And then I absolutely love, baseball tops tier one limited lumber bat barrel cards.

So I have a a handful of those. And then my current project, connection back to what I just shared, is building a set of nineteen ninety three top's finest refractors, just the all stars.

There's, like, 33 of them, signed by each player and inscribed with the number of times they were an all star.

So it's been a a project to find the card raw, get them to signings, all that. But, you know, unfortunately, we've lost Ricky Henderson and Kirby Puckett from that set.

So those are the two I probably won't ever get. A few Henderson's exist out there, but all the rest, you know, been been working on it and try to put that together.

I wanna talk more about that project. But first, 93 finest. I'm this really, if anybody who's our age in this era who were collecting, that that was such a pivotal set and a pivotal moment for me as well.

And once you said that, it made it like, I felt it deep in my bones. Yeah. That set came out, dude. I remember the Beckett previewing it, and I was like, these cards look different.

I remember going to the hobby shop, and then they were they were more expensive to get a pack. But I'll never forget opening a pack of those and putting and having those in my hand, and how different.

And it just felt so important because it was so different than anything else, that I that I never collected or seen or put in my binder. So I don't know.

Like, is is your love of that set today kinda based on, the nostalgia and just maybe when you were a kid kind of did you have a similar feel as I did, you know, getting my hands on getting your hands on those for the first time?

Yeah. For sure. And and, you know, we saw things in baseball cards when I was growing up. There were the late eighties Tiffany sets that came out.

Right? You got the FLIR glossy and the TOPS Tiffany that was kinda like, okay. We're moving up a bit quality. And then we got Stadium Club, which was, like, a little better stock and the photography was great.

But when finest hit in '93, and the real reason I anchor to that set is that refractors were born. And here we are thirty two years later, and refractors are core to the baseball card market.

I mean, to to multiple markets, but I'm a baseball guy. So to me, it's just cool that something that was, like, the unattainable thing back then because those even back then, those were expensive.

Like, it was not easy to get 93 finest. And refractors burst onto the scene and just the way they popped and that, like, holographic rainbow in the background, like, it was just such a cool thing.

But to see that having continued and stayed like a cornerstone of baseball cards with Topps Chrome and Bowman Chrome and finest through to this day is what makes it cool to me.

Plus just the timing of it because of when that set came out, you know, it's Ripken and Maguire and Maddox and Glavin and Bonds and Griffey and, like, it's just the heroes of that day in baseball and in cards.

So, yeah, that will that will forever be my thing. This is, like, my rip in. I have it on the side of my desk. And so, like, it's just the way they look to me just it just my favorite set of all time.

And there is a mix of nostalgia and true quality in there, but, yeah, not not a lot like it. So very excited to get those all done on a case and up on the wall here. The I I gotta get a story.

You're this project you have, you're trying to acquire all these autographs, and I imagine too with the chrome like, chromium refractor glossy finish, you're you're I mean, you're probably hoping that when you're getting the autograph, like, please don't smudge.

We don't need, like, this is very slippery surface here. Do you do you have what's maybe the most memorable story you have in, you know, building out this autograph project? So I will say, unfortunately, I'm very busy all the time.

And so, I have not acquired one of these in person myself. These have been I have a handful of guys I know who do private signings, who I trust completely, and it is me sending it off and just knowing that they are pros at this.

And the surface is prepped the right way, and it's the right Sharpie, and they're careful with the handling and things like that.

The the only one I will say it was kind of funny was at the National, so, you know, very recently here. One of the ones I needed was Doc Gooden. Mhmm. I had the Doc Gooden refractor.

I did not have it signed yet. So I send it with one of my guys who takes care of a lot of these for me to the National. He's getting it done in the TriStar area, so I'll have it back this week, which is great.

But, of course, then I go to eBay live to do a two case break up on the stage with them for one of those giveaway breaks they were doing, and it's me, Aaron Fitzner, who I work with at eBay, and Doc Gooden.

And, of course, I am just kicking myself. Like, if I just would have the card in my pocket, I could have this done in two minutes.

Doc is the nicest, easiest talk to guy ever. It says two nationals. I've had a few minutes to talk to him, and just so laid back. He was taking pictures with people, signing balls and cards for kids in the front row.

And, so it's just funny that it's like I shipped it somewhere. I paid the money for the signing. Gotta wait for it to ship back to me when I could have had that instant gratification.

So, maybe not a story as much as a regret story, but, yeah, that that that'll be cool to get back. I love it. And I will, cosign your doc as, like, the most easy to talk to guy ever.

Couldn't have been a more nicer, famous, individual that I interacted with at the national. Had a a chance to chat, with him as well and just, nice guy. His wife was super nice.

They were just, like, usually, like, athletes in that moment, they're making money, and maybe they're not, like, super pumped to be there. But, I mean, he it felt like he he was, like, having the time of his life.

So I I love that. No. Agree. I've the two times I've spoken with him where he was kinda backstage in, like, a green room type area, happened to be in a time before an interview or a panel or a break.

And both times, had his phone out, Mets game on, just fully immersed in it watching, and could chat with him.

And he knew all the players up on the prospects coming along. Like, the guy is still super sharp and very up on all things baseball, and so, definitely a a privilege to be able to chat with him for a few minutes.

Alright. Let's move over to this just insane scorching hot, market we're currently in. I it's, you know, it's a bull market.

It's in full force. All you have to do is check out this the sales that are going down each week. I've been talking about this with other individuals who are deeply invested in the hobby and trying to, like, gather perspectives.

What is what is your perspective on how we got there and what is kind of happening and fueling what we're seeing on the sales side right now?

Yeah. I I really just think the supply and demand thing holds true here, and I think it's a matter of what all the companies are doing.

I I think Fanatics is the leader in this, but I think they are all trying to market the hobby aggressively.

They're trying to get out there. Look what they're doing Fanatics Fest, all the live selling platforms, the way Whatnot and eBay Live and all Fanatics Live and all these are doing it.

I think it is just so many new people to the hobby that even with the number of cards out there, the number of new sets we're seeing introduced, products releasing, there are so many people coming in and they are all so excited to be in that that level of interest and that buzz just steadily drives things up.

And I think the more we can see new people continuing to enter the collectible space and they're doing it from all different angles.

Right? This is TCG. This is non sports. This is sports. This is memorabilia. This is everything. It's just kind of that, like, rising tide lifts all ships thing.

And as we bring more and more people in and we create more interest, in doing so, it naturally leads to a bull market, which is great for all of us because it means that the values hold and appreciate as that happens.

The I think it's easy on the collecting and buying side to see what's happening, prices going up, seeing what people are posting. And, you know, it's hard not to be like, well, maybe I should be doing the same thing.

I don't know. Do you have, like when a card gets listed for maybe, you know, two x what it sold for a year ago, And the market's ripping and emotions are running really high.

Like, what sort of, like, advice maybe you do you give yourself if, like, there's a card that you want or maybe just advice for other collectors who are experiencing, kind of those high highs, how to make sure, you know, you you make the right decision and kinda don't lose your your butt on something you buy.

Yeah. I mean, you've gotta know your risk tolerance. You know, I would say the same thing if it's, do you spend your money in breaks or do you spend them on singles?

Because one is inherently a lot riskier than the other. And maybe you're okay with that. You know, some people might look at a break.

Like, I know wax prices are way up, but I look at this like going to the casino. Maybe I take $200 in my pocket and I say that's my budget, and the entertainment's worth it. If I lose it, I lose it.

Breaks are that way. With singles, I think you just have to be smart who and when you're buying. It's so hard because I think this answer varies depending on what you're buying, but you've gotta be sure you understand seasonality.

How long has the product been out? What have the trends been over time? Is this a spike that just happened, or has it been a gradual increase?

Do you see, things to drive this player's value up in the future? Like, we can go on and on and on about all the factors. But it's also are you buying the flip or are you buying for yourself?

As a guy who loves nineties baseball cards, I know that market has gone up a lot in the last few years because there's only but so much supply and you've got people buying them for their PCs.

And so there's a difference in what I would tell somebody.

Hey. If the card's worth $1. 80 and the guy will only go down to 200, you might not see it again. Be willing to go up 10% to land something that means something to you that you can hold on to. I might not say the same.

If there's a steadily established comp $180 card today out there that looks like it's just gonna stay flat, and the only way you can find is at 2 or $2. 20, you gotta really think about, do you wanna overpay just to own it?

And so, very dependent on your motivation for buying, your budget for buying, and the opportunity cost of, okay, if I throw an extra $50 at this or a $100 at that, where is that coming from?

Am I overextending myself? If so, the answer is don't buy it. If it's taking money from something else, we decide which you prioritize more, and I think that's what should inform that decision.

You mentioned the nineties baseball market and that going up, which it certainly has over the last year or so.

Thinking about, like, crusades or PMGs or even the 24 karat gold stuff. That that stuff, like, collectively based on the set, everything has gone up in the the different player tiers have gone up.

Is in this market when stuff is ripping, and maybe the guy that you are after pops up, do you feel just as a collector, I wanna maybe get inside to, like, your the way you think about buying.

If a card like that from a premium set that's continually gradually going up in value, do you think it's, like, one of those moments regardless of market, you take your opportunity to buy it because you want it and you believe that these cards aren't going to go up forever, but there's maybe a higher ceiling based on demand and scarcity there.

Like, how do you think about those rare sets and those rare cards that are very popular amongst collectors inside and outside of baseball popping up in a market like we have today?

Yeah. I think you have to be more aggressive. That's just always gonna be my answer there.

I think, the cards that you see from the last five or ten years, there's certainly different ones that are gonna be held more often, ones that change hands more often, but they are going to be available more often.

These cards like PMGs, star rubies, 24 carats, raves, the rare crusade parallels, like, I could go on and on from the nineties. That's that's my world, but those cards don't pop up often.

I mean, put in your favorite player in any one of the things I just said and go on eBay and tell me how many results you see because you're probably gonna see none or one or two fixed price with a really high ask.

And you just have to realize they don't come around that often. So if one means something to you, you have to jump on it. They're usually gonna sell for more than the last one. Go look up price trends over time.

It holds true for just about all of them. So you can't look at it and say, I saw the last one sold for $6. 50, but I'm really hoping to get one for 5. Like, it's just not realistic that that's gonna happen.

And then if you were to turn around and do the same thing and say, so for you, Pacers guy, Halliburton, and you look at even the Chase Halliburton stuff, the NTRPAs of Halliburton, those are gonna pop up somewhat regularly.

Okay. Not every day. But if you want one, you can find one.

These other sets are if you really want one, you might not be able to find one for a long time. And so I just think if you you know, I don't risk the regret if we're just getting in Tory's head here.

It's if it's available and it's not completely out of reason, you know, shoot your shot, get it while you can because you may never have the chance to go.

We share in the same philosophy there, Tory. I would imagine in a market that's performing this strong, like, maybe talk about the impact that has on consignment.

Like, is that mean the volume goes up on your side, something different? Like, is there any correlation between kind of, raging market and what's happening at DC Sports?

Yeah. It means volume goes up. That's that is the simplest thing it means. The big reasons for that, there's a few. For one, it's when the market's hot, people want money to spend in that market.

And if you want money, we don't all have bottom worth wallets, I'm sad to say, or you know in every cult's card in the world and I have my project on already.

But you know, that's just the way it is. So I think people always have things they wanna liquidate to get into the next thing. And the market's hot on singles, but also, I mean, look at what wax is selling for.

I mean, some of the baseball products lately the most shocking one of me lately was twenty twenty four Topps Inception Baseball, which I think was selling for, like, $3.

30 to $3. 50 a box. That's for a one hit. So one autograph in that box, a couple of base cards and a couple of parallels. It's like even if you hit a Skene's RPA, you're positive, but there's not a lot of other outs in that deck.

Like, you're you're just so heavy into it, and I think a lot of people love breaking. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to do. It's a fun community.

It's a fun hobby. So you've got people who have they wanna buy singles. They wanna get into a break. They wanna add to their PC. And along the way, they're opening packs or boxes or buying collections if you're a dealer.

And so there's always that we've talked about this before, but there's that pile on your desk that's your PC. There's that pile of hold for a while, and there's that pile of I don't really care about it.

And I think as more and more transactions are taking place and the hobby keeps growing, there are both more people with that third pile and people with larger quantities of cards in that third pile.

And anytime that's true, our volume just shoots up because we are just an easy, low effort, low time investment way to get cash out of those cards to put towards your next thing.

I that your talking point there definitely resonated with me. I sent you a message.

I sent a box to you all to get listed, and it was mostly because I had all of these cards that were just sitting in boxes that I, like, don't consider part of my collection, but through maybe some rainbow chases and stuff over the years.

They they were just sitting there, and I I felt well, these cards that I want are expensive right now.

And if I can just, like, put a bunch of cards in a box and send them over to you guys and get some cash, that certainly helps support.

It feels like in a way, like, the payout, it's like a discount on a big card that I won. At least that's how I think about it. So I don't know. I would encourage anyone in the audience.

Like, we all have tons of cards. Like Right. We really need them all, and I think, at least that makes me feel better that I'm not constantly taking cash out of the stacking slabs bank account to go buy a grail.

I can do it. I can fund fund it through kinda cards that are collecting dust in in in on my shelf. Yeah. That's right. I I try to tell a lot of people think of think of us as a consignor as just like a trade facilitator.

Like Yes. It's almost like you came to me and you said, hey, I've got these 100 cards I don't care about. There's this one over here I really want, but I can't afford it.

It's like, okay. Well, you trade me those, and what I'll trade you back is money, and you can use the money to go get that one. And it's indirect, but it's the way it works.

And it you know, it's built to work that way. So we try to keep it easy. I'm I'm glad you you came around and gave us a shot. I know it took us a long time to earn earn your trust enough to get that third desk pile in here.

Yes. Next thing you know, I'll I'll be sending you some grails because I bought a card that was way too expensive for me, and I need to Right.

Sure. Pay for it. So, maybe, Torrey, as we're kinda rounding the corner here, wrapping up, you've offered a lot of just kinda your own personal advice, whether it's on the business side or the collector side.

I I wanna, like, stick on this, bull market topic just because I think it's really easy to get excited.

It's really easy to, you know, sell cards and make money and buy cards at kind of an all time high, and we don't realize maybe that's the moment they're at their peak.

You've been through this running this business in several different cycles.

I'm sure you have stories for days, and maybe that's a topic for next episode of, like, the 2021 bubble and what was happening at DC Sports. I'm sure there's some good stories there.

But what what sort of advice do you have for anyone listening who's just, like, trying to figure out how to navigate and maybe make the right decisions with their collection in this time period where prices and the market's performing really strong.

Yeah. So set your budget first. Like, before you look at what you own or anything, tell yourself either I have x dollars and capital I'm gonna work with for the hobby, for my collection, for my flipping.

And then not just as a one time thing, as a and I can afford to invest $200 a week or $500 a month. Come up with your number that you're gonna put into that.

You have to have that first because that's the biggest protection from overextending yourself ever. Because once you do that, you know what your cash assets are. Good. Got that got that established.

Then make those piles we've talked about. This is my PC. It's not going anywhere. These are cards I plan to sell, but I'm invested in this guy for a couple years. So I'm gonna watch his market, but I'm not rushing to sell.

Then you've got your, I don't know why these cards are here. I mean, if you're not holding them and you're not selling them right that second, but yet they're in a pile, like, it just doesn't really make sense. Those are the cards.

Take them to a show and sell them. Trade them towards something you want. Send them to a consignor. Like, I put the selfish answer third so I didn't seem like a like a commercial there. But, you know, do something with them.

And then once you do that, what you'll find is you've got your financials very disciplined and well set, and you're sure that all the cards that come to you go to somewhere. They either go to selling or trading towards the next card.

They go to an investment because you're holding it, or they go to your PC. And in doing so, you don't end up with just quantity that fills your living room and you don't know what it's doing there.

We've as we've been working more and more with breakers, we've had a couple breakers who have had big customers of theirs who come to them and go, help.

And help means typically, like in my side living room, I've got thirty seven two rows full of top loaded cards.

I don't care about them, but they're on my break hits from the last eighteen months. And it's like, okay, if you have the piles thing, you don't deal with that.

So, you know, very simple and probably very elementary sounding. But if you can do those two things, you're gonna be moving cards. And if the market's a bull market like it is now, you're gonna do well on them.

And you're gonna be positioned in a way where you know where the dollars and cents are going to make your next investments or your next PC buys or whatever it is along the way.

Great advice. The next time we do this, Tory, I believe we'll be leading into week one of the NFL season. So or, it'll be a football heavy podcast, I'm sure.

And I I know you're a a big commanders guy, and I was I had a chance to watch the, a bit of the the Bengals commanders game and a couple reactions I had to the preseason game. Number one, like, you know, Jaden Daniels.

It feels like he's he's leaving off kind of right where he was at last year. You see him running through the defense and getting into the end zone, which I'm sure really excites anyone holding Jaden Daniels' cards right now.

And then on the other side, I'm yelling at the TV screen being like, take Joe Burrow out.

Don't get him killed running for his life. And I'm like, man, preseason, it just makes me so nervous. But I'm glad football is almost back, and I'm sure we'll be talking a lot about it next next time.

For sure. We get very excited when we see Daniels do that. We also have PTSD from a little over ten years ago when another guy who was really fast ran a lot, and we all know how that story ended.

So, I don't think that's gonna happen here, but it's super exciting. You know, I hear a lot of people talk about Daniels and it's, man, this looks great.

What's the ceiling for this guy? And then you get the, well, what if there's a sophomore slump? Because these sometimes see that with QBs. So, I feel like the team's built really well around him.

He's looked great. He carries himself phenomenally. You just love the maturity he seems to show. So, very excited for everything he offers us on and off the field, and, yeah, can't wait for football to start up.

I'll be a little sad. I always say goodbye to baseball around that time, but, you know, it's it's nice to have football to lean into as a as a stop gap till spring training for me.

Football will be talked about a lot more here on the staging area. Tory, always fun. Great conversation. Thanks so much. Thanks.