the staging area twenty one coming at you we have some fun topics to dig into today i know tory is a massive baseball guy so because it's topical and i feel like we can relate this back to cards in a way i gotta get his thoughts on world baseball classic and buzz and maybe impact on the hobby we'll talk through some cards that sold through dc sports eighty seven and then maybe spend the end of the conversation talking about what's happening with the whatnot of it all and so with three chunky topics tory yeah how are you you ready to get into it doing well yeah ready hey baseball scandal and selling cards so you you know two of those describe my day to day life here one of them not so much but still relevant and fun to talk about so yeah yeah let's get into it alright before we do the wbc let's talk as we're recording this i think we'll be about or when this drops a bit it'll be maybe less than a week until opening day on the baseball front which is a very exciting time you can turn on the tv watch any games stadiums are full people are motivated and excited are you excited about this upcoming baseball season i mean i'm always excited about baseball season so yes but especially this one because so yeah this will drop on tuesday opening day is thursday so my plan for thursday is to try to catch as much baseball as i can in the afternoon while working most of the games end by seven and then we from like six thirty to nine are actually gonna be live on ebay live from our office here selling all baseball singles it's opening day so of course need baseball andrew jones is my favorite player all time will be with us in the office streaming so super cool opportunity we'll be giving away some signed cards of his he'll be opening packs with us selling singles so yeah for anyone who is not already swing by our ebay store save the live link join for the show it'll be a lot of fun lot of cool stuff but yeah just thrilled that baseball is back for the next six months or so i'm so happy you brought this up because i saw the promotion on instagram that andrew jones was gonna be involved in this and i like went back to maybe the first few episodes and remember you talking about your jones collection how did did this this come to be did you just shoot him a text and say hey man let's let's get this going how did you get your favorite player involved that's not far off instagram dm you know they work sometimes so we've we've obviously and you know no selfishness at all here have posted andrew cards of mine before and when he got elected into the hall of fame this past round of voting so he's going in this summer which is super exciting i am ecstatic about that we were planning this live event already for opening day and we wanted to have a player do it with us it's just cool it makes it more fun for people to watch it's exciting for us and we'd reached out to a few active players we had some conversations with nick kurtz and a couple other guys the trick is like take the nick kurtz example they're playing in toronto opening weekend so we would have to go to toronto across international lines couple hundred thousand dollars in cards going through customs that that it is logistically not a not a fun thing so but okay well let's look at a retired player where there's less scheduling conflict and immediately i just thought about myself i was like okay well who would i pick and fortunately andrew is a super cool guy he's really engaging like great personality he's going in the hall of fame this summer and so there's a lot of like overlap that worked he you know and a lot of people my age remember him and you know the guy was phenomenal so reached out to him talked to him and his agent we put it together pretty quick and so he's he's coming out we're gonna hit a a local car shop together come back to the office do some content hang out a little bit stream for an hour or two yeah so good good way for us to kick off the baseball season for sure i know at this point with the ebay lives you it's become pretty customary for you to interact with you know athletes but i'm curious with jones knowing that you have this fandom of him and you collect his card do you do you have any nerves going into this experience no no i mean i'm i'm very excited you know when i when i told my wife we were doing this she she knew how i would be and that i would be a bit of a a monster when it comes to the excitement but you know we've hit so many like cool milestones as a business but when i went home and i showed him my phone and i was like i just texted andrew like he's in my contacts now i think she knew that was like alright i've made it now now i can just you know retire happy but yeah it's it's super fun like it's an awesome opportunity nerves no i i don't get super nervous or or stressed i'm pretty even keeled but i will be very excited to have him here it'll be super cool just talk to him about the hobby and and he really is in unique position because we're coming off the wbc where he was the coach for the netherlands team he's got a son who's a top prospect in baseball his son drew for the diamondbacks he's going to the hall of fame this summer you know played the world series when he was still a teenager it was just so he's it's cool because there's just so many little things you can talk about so really curious to get his insights from all the different things he's got that are very unique perspectives and then to be able to have him hop on camera with us and interact with fans and collectors when we're actually selling will will be awesome so yeah very very excited about it so be sure to be there you you won't wanna miss out if you're a collector or maybe an andrew fan because you'll get some really cool andrew stuff without really spending much money so yeah plug plug the time of that again yeah so we're starting we're starting at six thirty pm eastern time thursday march twenty sixth which is opening day and we'll probably stream for about three hours the first half of that or so andrew will be with us and then it'll be myself and mike gio from sports cards nonsense kinda closing out the show just running through the rest of the singles we've got to move so awesome inventory mostly like mid end stuff not a lot of massive massive cards or stuff that appeals to everybody but it's a mix of it's all singles all starting at a dollar you know hall of famers prospects one zero one some some cool unique pieces so it'll be a really good time you mentioned it world baseball classic it just concluded my perspective is and i would love yours as you know the base a baseball guy my perspective is there was a ton of energy a ton of excitement and i'm talking not only in the stadium but across the hobby i saw non baseball collectors talking and posting about it and there's excitement around it and i think any anytime sports you can align with your country and support your country and in an event like that like morale and energy is high but i wanna get your obviously for the united states it didn't quite end how we wanted it actually it was i had it on and it was so exciting and then it was it's just completely deflating at the same time let i'm gonna let my memory terminate on the bryce harper homer and that's gonna be the part of that tournament as i choose to remember so let me get your perspective on it like just as an event and you were you entertained throughout it was it was it something that excited you and then maybe turn to the hobby like observations you made and just like an impact that the wbc can have on the baseball card category and even maybe reaching non baseball card collectors yeah i mean i think so definitely was a lot of fun i i like watching it i think it's it's interesting when you see which players end up on which teams because sometimes you don't always know like the backgrounds and the lineage these guys have but it's super cool i like that it's worldwide i like that you're seeing you know so many major leaguers but you know like the story from a couple years ago where it's like you know turned out to maybe be a slightly misleading like an electrician striking out shohei otani and stuff like those things are cool from a hobby standpoint i think it's a lot like playoffs for for any sport i definitely think yes when you have such a like cultural social media and just so much buzz around something it's great that it brings eyes to the sport and to the hobby at the same time but i think it tends to be kinda short lived it's it's a lot to me like you get that player who hits a home run-in a critical world series game who really never got that much attention before and it's like oh my gosh now i i gotta go grab a card if i'm a fan of this team this was such a cool moment we get these like p and instance and tops now is coming out to kinda celebrate the moment so it's definitely relevant because it's a spotlight shown on guys who maybe otherwise don't have as much of one but i think it does tend to be short lived it's it's that kind of thing where it's during the tournament and maybe a couple weeks after there's like this real kind of demand for certain players but i don't think it lasts as long as you know obviously somebody having a historic season or winning mvp or something like that you know in the majors so absolutely something to tune into though especially if you're somebody who's got cards with some of those guys who maybe aren't gonna spike as much in a normal you know season and you see an opportunity to move some stuff while the market's hot like take advantage of it and i think these days there's so much rapid you know speed to market and people wanting things to be liquid and people wanting to flip cards like gotta know your spots and and jump on them you know don't one of those cases not to be too patient or set something too long i always think about dc sports eighty seven and how you you based right there you always think about dc sports eighty seven you don't have to just i agree that's great brett let's just stop there it's the only thing i think about i'm i'm i'm like having a pulse on what's happening in in across the hobby because there's so much volume coming in your doors do do you see that during this moment like do you see more baseball cards when an event like wbc is happening like what when the dust is settled is that something like were there more listings that sort of thing yeah for sure you know i know i've i've admitted to you and to others plenty of times when people say what's the coolest card in the last week or have you seen a lot of this player that i always say i have no freaking clue because you know right now we're listed about a hundred thousand auctions a week and honestly there's more than that coming in the door we talked about this last time like our big goal is to up that and up that to bring our wait time down but to get back to your question yes we do because you'll just see these pockets like when bam adebayo you know switching sports here went off for eighty three points the other night you could just look at our basketball submissions for like the week after that and then our express and premium submissions so express goes up in three days within three days after we get it premium is next day you would get twenty forty sixty cards of all bam all rookie stuff all autographs because people have learned that the market reacts so quickly to big moments they jump on it very similar with wbc stuff you know even like more harper cards getting shipped right after they lost and coming in overnighted the next day or when you had juvenel suarez who played great for the team end of winning like you see a lot of his stuff coming in you just see a lot of that rolling in so we definitely like index heavier on the players who are got a lot of eyes on them in the moment it can get lost a little bit the shuffle amount of cards we get but we get a lot of people doing that because using the service levels we have where you know you don't have to wait that long it's like hey if i can get thirty percent more than i could last week and i don't trust this wave to keep going for too long people absolutely jump on it final one on this topic is i'm curious and we don't need to even like dig into the data or look at it i'm just like a pulse check from you based on what you saw in the wbc who would you say just from a player perspective would be maybe like the biggest winner of of it all and this might end up leading to more collectability and maybe who would be the biggest loser of it all yeah it's see it's it's hard to say losers just because i think i don't think it's the kind of event to me at least personal opinion what i see in a hobby that's gonna suppress a player in the hobby like think it's a time where you're either kinda staying where you were or you're going up so i do think a guy like suarez with venezuela winning with him getting the mvp with him performing well like i think that's a huge win for him because he's one of those guys who i feel like his whole career has always been good but never been like the guy on his team right and not kinda had that much attention so i think definitely a winner there yeah it's hard for me to pick a a loser i jokingly say kyle rollie didn't come out looking too great a couple snubbed handshakes and not and not performing that well and you know a platinum glove winner or whatever he was with with past balls and you know i know judge had some really big moments and some not great moments but you know i think there's such established players in that tournament that somebody you know they could go in there go over twenty and their team gets swept out of the tournament and i honestly just don't think their hobby value is affected i i really think it's only a chance to see spikes for certain players so what you're saying is the fact that someone just spent five million dollars five million plus on a a super fracture of judge bowman bowman chrome super fractor the fact that someone decided to do that they're probably not losing sleep because he went o four on the championship game i think that was a great buy and i don't think they're losing sleep i i don't think there's anything wrong with that price i mean i think if we if we looked right now and said okay since you know since supers rolled out like what are the super autos i mean after ohtani obviously and maybe after troutz like judge has to be i mean he's in the top three so with the appreciation we're seeing in those grail pieces and those iconic cards like it's crazy because we weren't here a few years ago but five million doesn't sound crazy to me so good good for that guy you know i think sit on that one for a while yeah not a bad come up that's for sure alright let's get into a few cards that sold through dc sports a seven all of them have kind of an interesting angle i wanna take with them the first one here is the nineteen ninety i love the old psa label on this too it's the ninety six bowman best rookie kobe bryant atomic refractor in a gem mint psa ten it's a pop thirty this card sold for twenty five thousand one hundred and sixty eight dollars why this card first of all like the card itself is oh i've always thought that this is a super cool card i love that atomic refractor aesthetic but the the reason why this card stood out to me is that this was the highest sale that we've seen from this card since twenty twenty one so i don't know that was interesting to me like we this card i think the card at its heights reached you know fifty sixty k somewhere in there but i find that interesting now that like we are reaching levels on stuff like this that's not like a one of one is more available wanna get your opinion like just based on where we've been to where we're at now with a super popular player in a card like this what what are your thoughts on this sale yeah i mean somewhat somewhat you hit on obviously there are certain things that spiked in the bubble we might not see again but kobe's in a very small class of you know the most collectible guys ever to be in the nba and atomics are just kinda that classic mix of like everybody loved them and if we go back to the nineties you know refractor started in ninety three that was kinda new atomics didn't start till i guess it was ninety six because i don't think we had them in ninety five so it's kind of the first year atomic and it was like alright this refractor technology came out it was huge and then this just takes it to the next level and it's the next most demand thing so you're combining a you know a chase parallel from some chase years of a go player and i just got checks all the boxes so yeah really really happy with this sale but definitely one of those cards you know you look at jordan and and other guys from the nineties too there's just some wild sales on on atomics and not to mention you know a card that's now thirty years old and the pop count's not crazy on these see look they're out there but you know you're not gonna find a ton of these around so i'm trying to cheat and read behind your screen i think it says thirty seven which you know is a is a is you know again that means if you think about these kind of pieces often being those things that collectors will grab and kinda sit on they do dry up and you know those thirty seven are not constantly being listed and circulated in the market so you have very limited opportunities to own them for sure yeah it is a total population across psa and bgs of five hundred and sixty five which is a lot relative to how some people look at the hobby now but it isn't too terribly it's not a ton especially coming out thirty years ago compared to what people are spending their money on which are comparable print runs now right an all time great cool card the next one this is where i i need your expertise because i saw this sale and i was like holy cow the twenty twenty four tops dynasty yamamoto patch auto silver out of five in a psa ten which is crazy on a card like this sold for fourteen thousand one hundred dollars you know i i i just say like this is like the ohtani effect spreading throughout the dodgers just in terms of like some of these prices but i don't know like i'm i don't follow this stuff regularly obviously i look at a card like this and rookie patch psa ten big bold auto yeah hot player does is is this justified like tell me what i should be understanding maybe about this types dynasty product in a player like yamamoto yeah so i mean do you know what it would cost you to buy a box of twenty twenty four tops dynasty no idea so so if if you haven't opened it i mean dynasty is a one card box right so you open it up and you've got a single card in a mag you know in a one touch and it's a signed patch of a player like that that's what the product is but you're spending i mean twenty twenty four you gotta remember sisken's year yamamoto's year guys like ohtani and trout and judge are all in there it's probably a three thousand dollar box so you're paying three thousand dollars for one card so to me this is a hundred percent justified because after ohtani schemes rookie stuff you know yamamoto is kind of in that next tier he's in there with the judge trout ellie rookies jackson rookies things like that so to take that this is the silver so number to five the base cards out of the set are number to ten so this is the parallel and it's a psa ten which like you mentioned is really tough on patch cards because because they're thicker cards even cards that are handled as much care as dynasty is so when you look at this and you say okay there's one card in a three thousand dollar box and after grading and everything you're you know four x what you're into the card for while it sounds like a crazy sale it's just not that crazy given just how ultra crazy premium high end the product is help collectors understand dynasty a little bit from the lens of football and basketball collectors who are coming over from panini and now collecting tops for the first time and they they might get an opportunity with nba with nfl to get exposed and to chase cards in dynasty like how should that group of collectors be thinking about a product like this yeah i mean as higher risk as it gets and as higher reward as it gets just the way dynasty is i mean i i cannot imagine you know when we see twenty five twenty six tops dynasty nba and there are cooper flagpatch autos in there because and we've talked about this but like each sport has its thing right and in baseball it's driven by bohman chrome like what everybody's after is the first prospect auto after that maybe you're after tops and bohman chrome rookie autos and you're chasing low number color true color parallels like that's kinda what baseball lives on and so with dynasty it's this ultra premium patch auto product and i think in baseball that just doesn't mean quite as much as it does in the other sports because if i asked you what the main card in other sports were you maybe we say the prism silver or prism color is like the foundation of a player's first year but generally like an ntrpa is the peak right that is the card and so now you bring tops into it with an ultra high end premium product built on patch autos incredibly low print run supplies super small so when we start seeing that pop up for the you know the first quarterback taken in a draft or the cooper flags and of the world like it's gonna be insane pricing i i don't even know i think just know that that's the case be careful if you're getting into breaks or buying boxes because of just how much it costs i know we're gonna get into the gambling on on flat and things so you know maybe we're headed that way but just you know it's something you have to know what you're getting into before you just dive into it it's not you know tops dynasty and tops series one are not in the same world i love the the clarification on that whenever i see one of these cards whether it's been in baseball or f one the i mean the cards and just the design and the layout is super attractive so i under you can look at these things and you can it it feels premium i guess i didn't realize they were one box one card in per box so talk about a gamble that's the ultimate gamble yeah for sure yeah they're they're gorgeous don't don't get me wrong but you know you're paying for that alright we're moving over to the last card which is a card i didn't realize at the time that was selling to dc sports eighty seven but i hit favorite on it because i was just curious i was like what does a card like this do right now and this is the final year of prism twenty twenty five cam scataboo nebula choice one of one in a psa nine selling for nine thousand two hundred and ninety three dollars which is a monster price but we have learned that rookie parallels like finite and nebula in football command a lot of money and i think cam scataboo crosses a lot of different kinda categories in terms of interest and popularity so while this seems extremely high i guess i wasn't necessarily surprised maybe like you and on the yamamoto side what do you make of this cam scataboo nebula one of one sale yeah i mean it's it's tough like you said a lot of money but you know we just i was just saying prism's kind of the foundational product for a lot of a lot of rookies and it's a one zero one so you you can't really ever say it's a it's a bad or too high or too low or anything it's just hard you know with with football especially with like running backs and just i i agree with the point with skatabu that there's kind of that like he's got such a big personality and you see him in so many places he's such like a marketable guy then i think that brings a lot of attention to him outside just the on the field stuff and so i think we'll just have to see where do the giants go in the next couple of years and you know it's you just see so much turnover in the nfl and especially outside the quarterback position if you're not you know elite elite and so we'll just have to see kind of the career development so i'm it's not one i'm gonna say hey this is a good buy or or what i think of the price necessarily except i absolutely understand it to your point see why it's justified but it'll take time to look back on this one and and know how how nice of a pickup this was no doubt we're going to kinda round out you alluded to it but i wanted to touch on kind of the whatnot of it all and the whatnot scandal and you know there'll be some the dust it won't be quite settled but every all of the industry talking heads and people who report on kind of the the hobby headlines they will have that cycle will have settled and people will have their information and so this is kind of the next wave but i just wanted to touch on it with you a little bit and i wanna so if anyone didn't see there is some arbitration fifteen counts i believe that are being filed against whatnot and i guess i'll paul lesko who if you're on twitter in the hobby likely you've seen his tweets he's a lawyer he's a collector he kinda specialize specializes in these cases he is involved and so i'm gonna reference before we get into it i'm gonna reference maybe just some quotes from him to give context and then also i read an article by larry holder is the senior writer of collectibles at the athletic to give further context and then we'll get into it but here's a quote and it says whatnot represents that it operates as a marketplace where live shopping helps connect buyers and sellers this is a false front the cases claim functionally whatnot operates as an unregulated online casino where it exploits its customer base by encouraging compulsive spreading and in the process generates billions in revenue without providing the safeguards required of regulated gambling operations and co so that's a quote and then also from holder in the athletic article he layered further context by saying those demanding arbitration are asking for whatnots randomized box breaks and repacks to be deemed unlawful lotteries slash gambling and unfair business practice restitution of all monies wrongfully obtained compensatory and punitive damages in order to require what not to implement warnings about the addictive nature of its platform and to establish consumer protection measures such as self exclusion mechanisms spending limits and addictive support and injunctive relief to halt randomized breaks and repack products so there's a lot there there is a lot there and i can't i don't know the last time i've read that much on eighty episodes but i wanna just like dig into maybe like what happened and what it means and most notably for collector so you hear all that you see all that like what's what's kind of the first few thoughts that enter your brain when you you've you've you've seen we've all seen whatnot and whatnot's become such a big part of this hobby and where people sell where people go to buy into brakes or repacks but now we've got this legal action taking place like what are what are the first thoughts that kinda enter your brain when you see this yeah i mean one is like yeah of course it's gambling i i we all knew that you know i understand and admittedly i i don't know the all the legal ins and outs and nuance that's involved here but i think the you know the big questions come down to what is permissible and okay to do so yeah it's gambling if you have a random team break on a wheel and people are spending up to hope they hit one out of seventeen teams left because it's the mavericks and a twenty five twenty six basketball break okay yes obviously that's gambling so is it permissible should the platform be allowed to do that that's one question the second i the points you were just reading from those articles what is the obligation of the platform to put measures in place that warn people hey this can be addicting hey you are electing to do this you're not guaranteed anything you might spend a lot of money and walk away empty handed like do they have an obligation to do that i can look at that and say think any reasonable logical adult probably knows that's what they're doing so it's just a question of do they have to and then the preventative measures of should there be spending limits and self exclusion and things like that i think yes there should be because what harm is there in introducing those and if you refuse to introduce those knowing they're helpful to some i think that only feeds the argument that it's you know uncontrolled unregulated gambling so yeah i mean it's it's interesting to me just because i feel like this huge story broke and everybody broke like this massive news and this huge lawsuit and i get that it is a big story but we've all been calling breaking and the whatnot and fanatics live and random wheel spins and repacks and all this stuff we've been calling them gambling for years and years now and so it's just kind of interesting how it finally comes to a head with like this very formal you know like legal action being taken so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out but that's my that's my initial reaction to it is like yeah we knew this all along but by the letter of the law what is there really to hold these marketplaces to yeah that's great perspective and just to give further context in terms of revenue this was reported that whatnot received eight billion dollars in sales in twenty twenty five which was double from twenty twenty four twenty million users so like the impact of i guess where we're where we're headed is like the impact of whatnot would call themselves a marketplace but this legal action is saying this is like they're positioning themselves as a marketplace but this is where all this gambling activity is going on i guess i don't know like what what what is a what is a positive outcome in your from your perspective on something like this can there be a positive outcome like what do you think i mean i would hope so you know i feel like we've heard these things talked about before though right like we hear about the should there be auditing on repacks where there's audits to say how much value is truly there and are the floor and the ceiling's real and are they fairly created and are we not divulging information behind closed doors somehow it's like yeah of course all that stuff would be good so i i would love it if there was more protection for your newer people who maybe don't know what they're getting into in the hobby to be able to engage in a marketplace like this well aware upfront of what they're getting into if they find themselves getting too deep into it an easy way out that helps them i i do think that's a big win but what i don't know is how do you implement some of those measures like you're not gonna stop breaking and to me breaking is not that much less gambling than anything else people get addicted to braking just like they might you know chasing teams in a repack or going random team wheel spins on whatnot or whatever so i don't know i i think it's a hard one just because i understand the the basis of what a lot of the complaints are but i tend to say should some of those measures be there yes but does the responsibility lie with whatnot to me it it lies on the individual and and knowing your limits and making smart choices and i can say this as somebody who you know in my earlier years was not smart about how my money got spent in the hobby and you just have to learn how you live within means you have a budget for it when does it get reckless when do find yourself doing it for the wrong reasons because you're chasing not collecting and you know to me there's a lot of self accountability that has to happen there but that certainly doesn't mean i think it would be a bad thing if we came away from this and there were more upfront warnings as you signed up and more things available on the back end to control your spending if you felt that was necessary no doubt and the theme here i think just is the the channel of live selling which we've talked about a lot here whether it's on whatnot or ebay it's obviously a a a major trend in this industry and it's not stopping anytime soon and i know like you obviously are participating in on ebay live on the live selling front i'm i'm just curious like not that what this what this lawsuit is gonna change anything in your mind from your perspective on how you're operating that's not what i'm trying to get at but it's like do like have you thought differently at all stepping into this brand new way to you know promote the sale of cards for your customers or promote dc sports eighty seven like is there a do you feel like there's any additional level of like responsibility you have as like the streamer who's getting on these in front of an audience selling cards like is that change at all because the the the way you're going about it for your customers is different like would love your perspective on that yeah i mean for for us no if you're if you're talking dc sports eighty seven no because we're not breaking we're not putting together repacks if at some point in the future our business evolved to where we were doing those things then you know even then we're not gonna be the ones who are you know running random team wheels and things that i feel like are the most kind of maybe there's a little more obligation to be looking out for your customer if we started breaking one day you know again it's gonna be we're gonna be sure we're fairly priced we're gonna be sure we're not hiding extra costs or fees or anything anywhere we're gonna try to not build any gambling or high risk element into it it's gonna be hey here's you know teams but what you want on ebay you know buy them on core come break with us on live or with singles we're just selling singles right there's no there's no game of chance there it's what do you wanna pay for this individual card it's right there on camera you know what you're getting so certainly we would lean away from some of those more slippery sides to the market and what people do but again i'm i'm still gonna go back to like if you're a breaker on fanatics live whatnot ebay live i think your obligation is just to deliver a great service an engaging show high you know integrity with being sure you deliver on what you promise and you're priced fairly for your customers what they choose to buy from you you know i literally know people who spend a quarter million dollars a month breaking and i know people who buy a twenty dollar team once a month because that's the budget they have to live within and neither of them are doing anything wrong they're both within their means to do that and and that's just you know that's just the way the world works and so again to what i said a minute ago would it be the worst thing if whatnot was to go put some more measures in to try to protect people absolutely not but i'm still gonna keep putting the onus of that back on the individual to make smart choices with those things in place so that they have a way to remove themselves should they deem that necessary awesome feedback i wanna close out this topic by revisiting something you mentioned about yourself and saying that you know when i was basically i took away when i was younger i wasn't necessarily being very smart about how i was spending money in the hobby maybe like in that self reflection i don't wanna date you too much tory but i i don't think whatnot was was was doing repacks when you in this era that you're referencing but we could probably say that about both of us i don't have to be the only old guy in the room here we could be two unks or ogs or whatever we're getting called it's totally fine got it you blink and you're an unk or an o g all of a sudden but that's where we're at maybe just like feedback based on like your previous experience in a previous era like if you are someone out there who's like questioning or maybe isn't having a great experience because you're on platforms like this and you're spending money like what can you share based on what you've learned about yourself and how you maybe mature your approach to spending money in the hobby over the years yeah i mean sure when i when i got into cards whatnot was not around that that's very fair but me getting into cards was buying you know ninety three through ninety five like that's when i first got into it when i got back into it as an adult and you've got a little more money to spend there was the hobby had grown by then you know we didn't have whatnot but like there was still gambling it was just different you know we it was all razzing then it was the you know you remember this i mean all the different sites and you know we had all the different you know boxbusters tv and breakers tv and facebook you know lining cards and razzing them there and you know that was gambling you you know it was a five hundred dollar card ten guys put up fifty bucks random dot org verified somebody wins the card you know that's not that different than okay i've got thirty teams to sell on a repack with a five hundred dollar floor and a five thousand dollar ceiling everybody buy in and then let's see who gets a card it's changed in its delivery but a lot of it is foundationally the same and it's just it's very easy in the moment to get so excited because there are so many levels to it there's these super exciting cards you see on screen there's this really fun community in the social aspect of hanging out a room with the streamer with other people and chatting you kinda wanna be part of that you wanna be engaged not just kinda sitting in the stands watching and so there's something here that makes you wanna go go go and in the moment you're thinking about that extra click that extra bid that extra whatever that's the fun that's the chase that's that little dopamine hit that rush and it just takes time you know for some people longer than others but just to understand this is my budget this is what i can afford and how do i wanna spread that is it worth it to me to gamble my five hundred dollar say a card you know a month card budget on things like this knowing i might walk away empty handed or am i somebody who is gonna do that and i wanna buy individual cards then i know i have something that means something to me it goes in my collection it's the same it's not that different to me than there are people who can walk into a casino with two hundred bucks in their pocket and say this is what i have to spend and if it's gone i'm done i had fun and i go home and there are people who hit the atm nineteen times after that two hundred dollars is gone because that's just kind of the way you're wired and you have to you have to know yourself enough to understand what environments and what types of marketplaces are healthy for you and work in the way you like the hobby and which ones are just dangerous and that's just so individual to me that that's why it's so hard to say here's the set things that whatnot should have to do is doing them good yes is it gonna solve the problem no if there's a you know if they put up warnings that said gambling is addictive be careful on draftkings they're not gonna lose half their customers' mark this is not the way it works so to me again just comes back to the person and and maybe that's you know preachy and some people think well no it should be able to be fixed some other way but i just i i don't know that that's always true so i'm all for asking what not to do more but they can't do it all love the feedback i was having a conversation not too long ago it was like last week and we're talking about breaking and how much it's evolved and the individual i was speaking with brought me back to a time that seems like decades ago but it wasn't too long ago where these sorts of live selling platforms didn't exist and the way breaks happened was via facebook groups and people would you know put your name in and alert everyone as it was filling up so it's like constant notification and it's just like wow like piecemealing together different technologies in order to get into a break was how it happened and it's obviously been a huge driver of the success of the hobby and businesses like whatnot and ebay live spin off all these things are popping up which tells me it's not going anywhere anytime soon but i think obviously whether it's a platform or the collector like we should all try to be more responsible about how we're doing but i that point you hit on it's in a case by case it's very individual i think is very sound so yeah i i i just wanted to make sure we we touched on it gave some perspective and i i feel like what you offered was was pretty fair yeah absolutely no again i think it's and and to what you just said it's individual because everybody's gonna see this differently if you're the person who's never been on there you're the person who's been on there and got yourself in trouble if you're the person who's been on there and it's all been great for you but yeah just gotta know yourself and know what you're getting into favorite andrew jones card in the pc before we let you go tory oh so that's hard i'll probably okay so it's like a toss-up between like the ninety eight pmg and the ninety nine flir brilliance twenty four karat gold are probably my favorites those two are probably my favorite i'm glancing at like my case on the wall trying to sure i don't miss something i have a handful of like fat knobs fat barrels things like that it's just growing up in the nineties and like those cards were so unattainable to me when i was a kid because even then and they weren't it didn't cost me what they do now but they were so hard to get and the barrels kinda came along way later so i guess a little different but yeah favorite items are probably mlb debut ticket signed and a game used bat that's not signed today but i tell you what it's be covered in ink so yeah yeah that'll be cool but no probably probably the pmg i i just love the old yeah title pmgs yeah those are incredible cards everyone make sure you check out the livestream with andrew jones on thursday tory another one in the can man appreciate it awesome thank you