We are back with the very first episode of The Staging Area here in 2026. And the topic that we're going to dig into is a good topic, and I think we all need to be reminded of it as we enter a new year, and that is hype. And there is more hype probably than ever before in the hobby. And I have this conversation with a lot of different people, but I wanted to have it with Tory because Tory's seen a lot of hype cycles and different things running DC sports eighty seven. So we're gonna get into that, talk some cards, and more.

But without further ado, Tory, how's it going? Going well. It's funny until you said the 2026. I hadn't even realized that, yeah, we are kicking off a new year, but, no good. I feel like, we talked about this before, but, it feeds into the hype topic.

Like, the hobby usually slows down a little for us in the fourth quarter, and we kinda take a big breather in November and December, and we did not get that this year. And then the New Year happened. And two days after the New Year, hopped on a plane to California to go visit some brake partners. Rico, who provides all our scanners, went to the 49er Seahawks game with them. Some great meetings at eBay.

So, yeah, hit the ground running. They're very productive, but very tiring way. But, yeah, ready to get into the topic today for sure. I saw your Instagram, and I meant to ask you about that. But you had just I was watching the game, and then I saw your post that you were at the game.

And I thought, well, this must be a business trip because I know you have no allegiance to either team. But what was that experience like, seeing those two divisional rivals who are in the playoffs, go at it? Yeah. I mean, like you said, I had no dog in the fight. So for me, this was way more like the, neutral sports fan.

So I'm, like, more looking at the stadium and how cool is it, checking out the tailgating area, and just, obviously, everybody well, 98% were pro niners. There was definitely some seahawks blue and number 12 flags waving who came down from Seattle. But, no, super cool experience. Game was, you know, not the most thrilling. It was 13 to three.

So, you know, bit of a bit of a dub there, but had a great time. Appreciate Rico hosting us for that. We got to go to their suite, good food, good crowd there to watch it with. And yeah. I mean, hey.

Catching a game in person is never a bad thing. So nice way to start the week. Let's jump in as we kinda dive into this conversation. I wanted to ask you, starting a new year, there's always so much that is different and a lot maybe stays the same. Is there anything specifically, different for you as you kinda enter 2026, compared to maybe where we were last time?

You know, for for us, not really. I know we're gonna get into some of the hype stuff, and I think, you know, from a market standpoint, there's definitely changes we've seen. We're seeing a lot of positive trends or appreciation in the singles market, both overall numbers of transactions as well as values. We can dive into some of why that is. Obviously, the the landscape of the hobby year over year has changed some, but, through the DC sports lens, not a whole lot.

For us, it's still, you know, the same. Just more tech, looking for more partners and a lot of growth. So, that's going very well. So we are happy, but, that's not what we're here to talk about. It's not about us.

It's about the hobby as a whole. And, on that standpoint, I know we're gonna get into it, so I don't wanna jump way ahead in our in our itinerary here. But, yeah, I definitely think we're in a different spot than we were a year ago and, gonna be very interesting to see how that carries with a lot of that being the obvious stuff. Right? Like, the license movement and the state of repacks right now and the prices of wax and hype of players.

So, yeah, I'm excited to kinda unpack all that and and see what we're both thinking along the way. Maybe we can, as we before we get into some of these cards that sold, talk maybe a little bit about Topps Chrome basketball because there is a card on that list. And just listening to some ancillary content, I learned that the cost of the Tops Chrome basketball hobby box has increased. Oh, yeah. Since the launch, which I'm not typically looking into that world, but I that's why I listen to other content so I can at least absorb that.

And we're there's we're seeing some monster sales. From your perspective, it it feels like some a lot of the time when the hype fades, the the box prices kinda go go down. But in this instance, it's the complete opposite. And this release is unlike any other releases, and it'll probably be a signal for how things are gonna come with tops and a flagship product like tops chrome basketball. But your early analysis or maybe not so early.

It's been out for a little bit. But, like, what's your read on just this release and launch? Yeah. I mean, it's exciting. And and being like you, you know, we've been in the hobby long enough to remember the the craze of nineties and early two thousands tops chrome and what a staple that was in basketball.

Ditto football, and I know that's coming too. So I think the hype is what's giving the tail of the buzz on this product more than we usually see. And to the point you kinda just made, we usually see it's out of the gate. It's on fire. And then people kinda, like, go, wait a second.

And you realize you're paying, like, $2,000 for a Breakers to Lightbox, and you go, hold on. This might not make sense. And so it's interesting that the tail on this one that that hasn't really gone away. And so it's like the brakes just keep filling and filling, and the the demand for the product and boxes and cases on the market just is there and there and there. And so I am surprised that the value has not to see it go up, but to see it go up and stay there and hold this long after release.

I'm also I had a fear early on that we would see those crazy prices on the product sealed, and then we wouldn't see really strong secondary market sales. And so, obviously, living in the world of dealing singles on eBay, I have been happy to see that even though I'm not sure it fully justify some of these box prices, the singles are performing really well. You know, you look at the the rock stars, you know, throwback the nineties with that one and the radiating rookie SPs and the, you know, good color of some of the established vets and rookies. Like, it really is selling well. So that gives me some some good feeling that at least it's not, fully out of control, but you gotta be careful just because, you know, when you're looking at the prices, these things are commanding.

It's kinda nuts. The it seems that any stream I see, whatever configuration, people are breaking this product like crazy and undeniably, like, I've read some research about just how much there had been in production, and it's at a scale that's, you know, almost hasn't been seen before. Do you think this is this about, the price going up? Is it about, like, a just the massive breakers can't stop and wanting to continue to get their hands on it? Is it because this is a good rookie class, and people are chasing Cooper Flag?

Is it because there's this marketing and positioning about Tops Chrome being back? Is it all of the above? Like, what's your read on it? Yeah. I I think it's all of that.

I think it's I think for the product to stay here, you've gotta have a huge chase, and so that's what Cooper Flag is. I do think Tops did a really good job layering the vets in on top of that. You know, we've got LeBron autos in Tops Chrome, Curry, Giannis. Like, all the stars of today are in there along with obviously flag being the biggest chase. I think you've got the collectors who haven't seen Tops Chrome in forever, who loved it twenty five years ago, twenty years ago, who now have it back, and there's that nostalgia that drive me back in it.

You've got the newer collectors who maybe were really anchored to Prism. That's kinda all they knew, but the amount of buzz and marketing coming out of Fanatics and Topps to drive this product is great, and that brings them in. And then you just have the fact that anytime there's something new, the content and community of the hobby is consumed with it and everybody's chasing things. You get in a break chase. You you got, you know, guys you want a PC and you're after them.

And so there's just there's so many angles people were hit by with the pitch for this, and there's so many ways that you could be interested in it that it's maybe a little unique in that sense, and that's kinda helping it it carry through, I think. The greatest way for me to maybe contextualize what's happening with this product is just to go into CardLadder and start looking at sales. So, of course, I wanted to see, like, what was happening through DC Sports '80 seven. And I also recognize that I'm I'm pretty sure this wasn't the highest selling Cooper Flag card, but this card just I couldn't believe it when I saw it. And what we have here is the 2526 Tops Chrome Cooper Flag orange refractor auto out of '25 raw copy sold December 29 for $26,301.

Mama Mia. What that's Yeah. That's just that's it's be I mean, it's beyond crazy. Like, it's not a out of five, it's obviously not a super fracker, but it's an orange. And I know orange is like a staple parallel.

But yeah. What what's your reaction to seeing stuff like this come through DC Sports '87? Yeah. I mean, it it's crazy in a way. And then at the same time, I look at it and I go, okay.

If we're spending, you know, $7,800 or whatever it is now on a Hobby Box and we're spending, you know, just I know Jumbo's Rubber and Breakers Delight, like I said, is pushing $2,000. It's it's almost good. You know, it it's tough because to your point, the mama Mia of it all is, hey. This guy's halfway into year one. Right?

And and we don't know what it'll become. So it's a big gamble if we went back and if there was such a thing as a orange refractor rookie auto in 02/2004. We'd probably be applauding the guy who bought LeBron for $26,000. So there's always two sides to it. You know, the the price and the demand and the buzzer on the product probably warrants it because I know I can tell you this one got paid immediately.

So whoever bought it was happy with their purchase. Right around the same time, we sold one of the orange geometric autos, so the breakers are like exclusives for, I think, like, 16 to 18,000, somewhere in that ballpark, that also got paid. We had one of the insert autos that was a red geometric sell for 33,000 that got paid. So, you know, the the premiums are there, and and the payments are coming in. So, you know, these aren't auctions being messed with or anything, and these are these are legit sales.

It's good to see because to the point we're just making it, the product's gonna be this hot off the press, and it is produced like mad. I mean, I thought Prism had a lot produced. I think Chrome is blowing that out of the water between all the formats and everything they have distributed out there. But, if that's gonna happen and the chase is gonna be him, this is what you wanna see on those cards. So you said something there that's interesting, and you're calling out, like, the parallel plus autograph back, you know, when LeBron was a rookie, and obviously, that they didn't have these types of cards.

But it it it causes me to think and reflect, and I want you to maybe put your collector hat on and how you and how you see these cards shake out. But if we're thinking about lineage and legacy and parallel structure and what what's gonna matter more over a long period of time, do you think that a orange refractor auto is like, how do you stack rank the auto versus just the the non auto, which is, like, the the base parallel true base parallel version? Like, how do you think about that, especially with the introduction of, like, an autograph in this? Like, what do you what is your perspective, and which one over time, you know, maybe collectors will gravitate to more? Yeah.

I mean, it's it's tough because I feel like I feel like this is a little bit sport dependent. You know? So, like, right now, in the context of a basketball conversation, I think you can kinda go either way because I think Prism has historically been built. Like, a Prism silver is kind of like the foundation of a player's rookie year. Right?

We kinda build from there, and so that's now the Topps Chrome refractor. The fact that autos are in there are good. I I want there to be more chases. But, obviously, it's a little different because if you go to, you know, baseball, we're really all about first prospect autos, and those way trump, you know, non autos. And that's why I think it's closer, and I think they're more neck and neck.

I do think it's interesting that even though tops Chrome is now just coming back, we look at, like, the difference of the two sales I just said where we had within a day of each other, an orange geometric do 16,000 and a true orange do 26,000. And so I know we had some people, you know, asking me leading into this release. Top scrum has been gone a while. You know, we've had collectors who maybe haven't had it. And are the true you know, air quote, even though they're not, it's a true thing.

Like, are the true colors still gonna carry that premium? And, obviously, we see that they are considering we saw, what, a 60% increase with a true orange over the original. So definitely still matters quite a bit. But, yeah, we'll have to see kinda how the product evolves from here. What's your thoughts on just the the card itself, like, the photo and just terms of, obviously, like, we think about these iconic rookies and we remember the photo.

And I will be the first to admit non Cooper flag. I'll take my opinion about this card off the table. Just generally, I think there's a lot left to still be desired in terms of photography across the set. Although, I'll give, you know, top slash fanatics the benefit of the doubt since it is year one. But what what is your mindset Yeah.

Around the look of this card? No. Photo matters a ton. I agree. I mean, I you know, like, I I don't love the, you know, o nine ten Steph Curry where it's just him smiling.

Like, it's kinda fine, but it's, like, it's kinda I don't love the base paper LeBron where it's just him standing there in a suit. Now I think him taking a shot on the chrome cards, good luck. Cooper dunking here, good luck. I I do sometimes wonder though because and and you've been around long and you've seen these sets. Like, there's the stadium clubs and Panini came out with photogenic, and you see some of these cards where the photography is just incredible.

And it's almost like, why are we saving photography for certain sets to do a good job and just not worry on the rest? But, overall, I do feel like Chrome did a good job. I think the design works. It's you know, it I think it takes a lot of years for you to look back and go, how do people look on, like, card design and and all that and all the optics of it? But, yeah, it's it's not like when we saw unlicensed finest come out a couple years ago.

I just wanted to like, we talked about this. Right? Like, it was just comically bad looking. So, no, I do feel like they did a good job with the product. So in that in that standpoint, it it's working for sure.

Yeah. I like the dunking pose. They couldn't really mess the Cooper flag one up. So Yeah. Alright.

We move over from a $26,000 Cooper flag sale to a 11,000. It was $11,123. A Michael Jordan o three zero four SP authentic auto, autograph 10, and a PSA authentic holder. Obviously, Jordan Otto's matter. This card is sick.

You can never go wrong us getting a Jordan Otto and seeing them sell. I wanted to bring this up essentially, and I understand, like, the time nonplaying days versus playing days and all of this stuff. There's so many factors, but I just I just found it so interesting the timing of these two cards selling through DC sports where you've got Yeah. A Cooper flag selling for 26 k, and then you got this MJ Auto selling for 11 k. Maybe talk about this Jordan and then just in comparison with the flag sale.

Yeah. I mean, it's a little weird when you take in the the GOAT. We don't need to get into that conversation, but, you know, comparing it to a rookie. But yeah. I mean, look.

Jordan Auto is like that market's about as stable and as sure a thing as it's ever gonna be. I know, you know, we look back at COVID time, and, obviously, we saw, like, that crazy sudden spike. And we cooled off for a while, but I think we're starting to see that again. If you look at, you know, the Jordans and Griffys and Brady's of the world, and we're still seeing appreciation in the rookie cards and other things. I do always wonder, and and I've not done my homework here to put the data behind this, but how much more movement we might see on, like, more iconic sets or years?

So, you know, are we gonna see more demand appreciation and higher price points on o three SP authentic Jordans where he was in a set with LeBron rookie autos, kind of like, you know, our '96, 97 tops chrome refractor is gonna be more expensive because they're in with the Kobe rookie refractor set and just the demand and the chase and all that behind those products. But, yeah, again, you know, Jordan, ten auto, big year. SP Authentic was a great product. I mean, so was all the early two thousands upper decks sets that had Jordan in them. But, yeah, awesome card.

I know we've talked about this a lot and just the volume of cards that comes through, you don't get a chance to necessarily stop and smell the roses. Yep. If a but if, like, a if a, like, a Jordan autograph like this comes through, is the are there, like, to that where then you're just like, wow. Like, that's a Jordan autograph because it's Michael Jordan, or is it just still, like, business as usual? Yeah.

I mean, the honest answer is I didn't even know we sold this card until you called me for this episode. That's awesome. But, you know, keep keep in mind that right now, we're running at between eighty and ninety thousand auctions a week. That was 60 or 70 not long ago. We had to up it some amount of mail coming in.

So, you know, if it's if it's somebody I know in the hobby and they've got a 5 or 6 figure card and they reach out and they say something to me, okay, it's like it's kinda on my radar. Other than that, honestly, we're so focused on things we're doing with different customers, partnerships we're trying to build out right now, you know, tech we're building to do new things in 2026. Like, I I just don't have time to stop. So I will take that, like, maybe once a weekend, like, cursory look of, like, active auctions, highest price, DC sports, and just go, oh, cool. Look at the cards we have.

But, that's about as in the weeds as I'm able to get right now. That makes a lot of sense. Alright. Let's move over to our last card. And here is the twenty fifteen upper deck Connor McDavid p s a 10 young guns.

This is a pop 3,228. This card on December 28 sold for $2,750. And I know Young Guns has such a lineage and legacy, and I know we've talked about Conor McDavid on here a few different times. But, like, to me, it just was so mind blowing that you've got a population of a card, the 3,200 selling for 2,700. So what is what does that say to you about maybe Young Guns or McDavid and just the demand of a player like this?

Yeah. I I think it's just him. I I mean, like you said, Young Guns are the rookie card in hockey, and I think this is the same. Like, look at anybody in the most of the pops, at least in the last decade since, you know, grading's exploded and everything. Like, a lot of them were out of control.

But it's the card to own. And when you've got a guy like him, everybody wants one, and you take a a sport that's popular internationally. You take a guy who's continued to be the best in a sport year after year after year. No. They haven't gotten it done yet.

You know, there's no championship yet. So we're kinda talking to, like, you know, Josh Allen of the NHL. I think we might have talked about this before with him where it's that's the next thing that needs to happen. But, yeah, I mean, it's an otherworldly talent dominating the sport for a full decade now. So the the price is justified to me even though it does sound crazy when you're talking about a pop north of 3,000 and the price around 3,000.

So, yeah, it's it's an outlier there because I think we're just not used to seeing that other places. But when you really break it down, I I think it is it does make sense. I love that. So I wanna hit you with something, and you reminded me, and this is kind of off the cuff, but I feel like I'll put you on the spot in terms as we're recording this, NFL playoffs are about to take shape. Do you who what is your what is your Super Bowl prediction, Tory?

What do you got? You know, I I really wanna see the Bills get it done. I just don't know that it happens, but I'm gonna say it's like Bill's seahawks. And, you know, we'll see who wins that game. I feel like it might be healthy for the hobby to see Josh Allen finally get one.

I I would not have said seahawks a while ago, but I tell you, they now the forty niners were beat up when I was just at this game. So maybe this is recency bias of having watched them play in person. But, like, that game, you know, JSN didn't have a big game, but between, you know, Charbonnet and Kenneth Walker, they were running all over San Francisco. You know they can pass too. The defense looked good.

So, I I don't have nearly the, informed insights and expertise in football that I do in baseball. But, but, yeah, that'll that'll be my off the cuff answer with hoping that Josh Allen finally gets one this year, and and we can stop saying he's, you know, Dan Marino or or whatever comparison we try to make. Certainly, Josh Allen, I think winning a Super Bowl likely has the biggest hobby impact, but it feels like it's more open than ever before, which should make for an exciting playoff. And the great thing is you look at the other QBs who are out there, and, like, of them were talking okay. I just said Seahawk, so maybe we take Sam Darnold out of this.

But the majority are last five years, still young, still kinda proving so was on the rise. You know, we could see Stroud, Herbert, like Trevor Lawrence. Yeah. Exactly. Trevor Lawrence is a great one.

There's so many of those guys out there. So just to see what could happen, you know, it'd be interesting. Jags are a scary team, though. That's a that's a good one to bring up in the AFC. It's interesting that we're talking about Allen's path to the Super Bowl, and we're not talking about Mahomes or Lamar Jackson because it feels like we're always the three battling for it.

Those other guys are out of it, and it's these younger guys you, you know, you gotta make your way through. So see how it goes. Definitely. Alright. Let's get into the primary topic, and I wanted to dig into hype.

We've maybe never directly had a full chat about hype, but it is such a big part of how why the hobby moves the way it does. And, obviously, undeniably, by looking at just tops chrome basketball and that launch and release, there has been just so much hype. And I think a lot of people look at the word hype as negative, and it can be negative. But, also, I think hype hype can be a positive too. So sure we're gonna get into that, but I wanna start here.

When hype shows up Yep. Which maybe it might be all the time, but is there anything specifically and you could laser it in with the Chrome release or it can be anything else. But is there anything inside the DC sports a seven operation that that changes? Yeah. I mean, to your point, I don't think it's when hype shows up.

It's which hype is showing up today. Because in today's world, you know, you just open social media, and you'll find out something is buzzing today. It just might not be the same as yesterday. As far as the way we do business, nothing really changes. But that was one of the big things that changed for us in the last year was just trying to be able to offer something when hype overlaps with your collection.

Because that's always the question. Right? You got a lot of people buying, and and we see that. You know, I can look at buying trends on our eBay, and it's it's crazy how things are so much shorter. You know, it used to be, hey.

We don't buy football in the off season, and we buy football during the season with who's playing well, and then we buy in the playoffs with who's there. And now it's whoever had a big game on Sunday or whoever the fantasy experts are predicting to go off for 45 points on Sunday afternoon, we're buying that Friday and things like that. But, no, for us, it's really just we work with so many breakers now that a lot of the new product we see comes from that. So we try to give that that avenue where if somebody's in with breakers, somebody we work with. So we see a ton of that product right right away.

You know, it's product hits on a Wednesday. There's a dozen boxes overnighted on Wednesday that are getting here Thursday of that product that we list. So we just see a lot more of it a lot faster than we used to. And since we offer more, like, customized premium than we used to, we get a lot of people who are shipping things here right away either right after release or they're sending, you know, their monster hits to PSA doing, like, a walk through grading service and trying to have it sell when it's a pop one sale. And so, you know, in our business, it's really just as everyone else has learned more urgency and timing is king in sales.

It's just people trying to leverage. They're working with us a little differently where the biggest two examples of that would be breaks coming in immediately post release and then people trying to have the first sale of a card raw and the first sale of a card graded just because there's such an opportunity to to capture a premium there. I find it so fascinating just being an observer of the hype cycles and trying to understand like, it is very apparent to me when individuals are trying to capitalize and take advantage of the hype, and that could look like, a monster card, like, that your Cooper flag orange 25 hits eBay and someone buys it, but their intention is I'm gonna buy be the first to buy this so I can resell it for 5%. And there's other collectors that are just like, I'm letting the dust settle and let the hype fade and then eventually coming come back in. How do you like, with with the these hype cycles as an observant or even in your own personal case as a collector, like, try to ride it out, resist it, neutralize it.

What does that look like, for you? Ride it out. I I think, you know, when the wave's big, you just ride it. I I think it's the safe play, and I think it makes sense far more often than it doesn't. Because I think we see now that in sports, it's not just you know, if hype drives somebody up, it's not like if hype takes you from a we got a one to 10 hype scale.

Right? And if you started at two and something happens and moves you to an eight, that doesn't mean you're locked at an eight until something else goes right or wrong. You know, being a baseball guy, we see this with prospects all the time. It's like somebody gets hot. You have a huge month or something in the minors, and their cards will just skyrocket.

And even if they play well or say they get called up to the majors and they're good, but it's nothing crazy, it's like it's just right back down to earth. And so to me, the play is always ride the hype, play timing strategically, and capitalize off that. I think if you're resisting hype, that just sounds like kind of a overly principled, I'm gonna stick it to the man. I'm not playing the hobbies game kinda stance, which, hey. If that's you, do your thing.

But I I don't think it's really the way to win. And I don't think neutralizing it is healthy. I think everybody's got a choice of what they wanna do with their collection. And if you think there's a reason to sit back because right now is not the time to sell and you see something coming down the road, by all means, do it. But I think when market situations put you in a place that something goes up and you can act on that, I just feel like it's always the best thing to do to capitalize on the liquidity and the demand and then have the options open to yourself of where you wanna reinvest that capital, add to your PC, buy something else you think is, you know, better long term prospects.

And that just always feels like the play to me, but that's maybe coming from a rather risk averse stance. So, obviously, to each their own there. I think each either way you cut it, there can be this the the regret can sink in, whether it's you bought the card at the peak and you don't care about it. You regret holding it as it's lost, you know, 50%. Or it's I'm not going to play this game, although I player collect player x in their super factors available now.

So I'm just gonna send it out and then someone else buys it, and then you see it relisted a year from now, you know, 30% higher or whatever. Do you find it the regret is more on people that are trying to be averse to the hype or those that are participating in the hype? I hear it way more from somebody who, you know, sold a card at $200, and then the player just goes nuts. And six months down the road, it's now at 500, and, you know, they feel like they missed out. I think you've gotta just be able to be okay with that.

Like, if if you have a card and at the time you want that $200 to go buy a card for your PC, you only got into the card for a 100. There's a 100 in profit for you. You have something in your personal life that's like, hey. I need to move 200 out of my card capital into my real life budget. Like, I don't think you should ever regret that because in the moment, you looked at all the factors, made the smartest decision for you, and you need to kinda have a short memory there.

And I think that's what people should do. Although I think that's where we always hear the regret from people, I don't hear as much regret from the you know, I didn't sell it and I held it, and now it's worth half. And I you know, whether whether that's just we wanna be eternal optimists and hope it'll swing back up one day or it's just easier because you feel like you didn't lose a card and sell yourself short. I don't know. But just from the people we interact with, that's why I hear certainly a lot more.

Feels like there's a crowd of older long term collectors who kinda sit back and they see the hype cycles and they're overly critical and they're just maybe upset because they can't, you know, buy a box of cards anymore or collect a certain player. And so then hype has this negative connotation Right. Right. Specific pockets. But I think there are instances where, you know, hype can be a positive thing.

Is there any part about these hype cycles where you think hype legitimately helps the the ecosystem? Yeah. Constantly. You know, I mean, we we spend all day selling cards here, and and I you know, all the collectors we're talking to spend all the time buying and selling cards. Hype gives you options.

I mean, that that's the thing. Like, the ability to sell something based off hype is what kinda lets you have more control. I realize the hype's not always predictable. I I don't know what's gonna happen in the NFL playoffs like we're just talking about. So I don't know if the hype a week and two weeks and three weeks from now is gonna be on, you know, Trevor Lawrence for making a deep playoff run after playing so well this year, or it's gonna be, oh my gosh.

Josh Allen's almost back to the Super Bowl. You know, what could happen now? And so while the hype's not predictable, I think it helps because we wanna bring more people into the hobby. And and hype is where we start seeing articles about record setting card sales, and we start, you know, reading that overlap of sports news with hobby demand and how does that bring new people in. And so I think the buzz both inside the hobby and as sports external to the hobby in a way influence it is definitely healthy just because it drives more transacting, more trades, more sales, more cards trading hands, people getting into breaks, and, you know, we need that.

We we need activity for the market to stay healthy, and hype drives activity. Whether you wanna call it positive or negative is up to you, but it undeniably drives activity. And I do think that's that's a real key to help in the hobby for us. Whenever I'm having conversations about hype and there's someone who's maybe overly critical about hype, I tend to point back go all the way back in to when we were collecting as kids and have conversations about the manufacturers and how they promoted and what was in your binder and looking at hobby boxes. And undeniably, like, in all those years, the rookie was on the box, everyone was trying to face rookie.

And we didn't '98, it was like Manning was on the box, and it was like, look at what happened with his career. '99, Tim Couch was on the box, and look at what happened to his career. So, like, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but I think without, like, this promotion, like, Topps Chrome's going all in on Cooper Flag without this promotion, like, I don't know what would happen. So if if, I guess, if hype weren't a thing or didn't exist, what do you think would maybe break or disappear from the way the hobby is currently organized and operates? Yeah.

And and, I mean, look. With a lot of these topics, you can almost interchange hype and emotion. Like, hype hype is kind of the feeling of the hobby. I I think that's the way you can look at it. And so that swings both ways, positive and negative.

But hype is what gets kinda draws people in it first. It's it's the hype of Tops Chrome coming back. It's the hype of the ascension of a star player. It's a hype of a prospect making a big debut. And all those things are what really get us into it and get us engaging with the hobby and with the sports world that drives the hobby.

And so, I think if you stripped all that away and you said we're gonna go back to maybe the way, way, way OG days where it's like, okay. I don't really know what's happening in the market until I get my price guide once a month. It's just it it's more transactional without hype. And and we can make the argument that hype is what's driving all the price swings, and so it does drive transactions, and I agree. But I think hype is that emotion that really influences where demand is shifting and what people are invested in and what reasons people wanna own cards and what get you interested in that new set or product coming out.

So I I look at it as entirely positive, but, know, I'm open to hearing those who might look at it both ways. Think maybe going moving over to hype hurting the hobby, is there any specific behaviors that you see during these hype fest and these hype cycles that, you know, upset you, maybe concern you about what you're seeing. Yeah. I don't know about upset me. I'm I'm I'm pretty, nonemotional about about most things with the hobby.

I'm really just having fun with it, to be honest. But, I I only get concerned when, people don't understand what's behind hype. And I think there are times that we see that. We could probably say we see that with tops from basketball. As as much as we've said positive things and it's like, hey.

The product landed. It did so well. We're seeing it really last, and the buzz isn't going away. It was marketed perfectly. The product looks good, everything else.

I would also say that I get worried if I see somebody go pop into a room and take the Mavs for $2,000 in a break and and not know in their mind that right now, Cooper Flag based auto is probably $161,700 dollars raw. And so it's fine if you wanna get in. And if you have the budget and the financial freedom that that's something you do for, like, entertainment, community, and hobby, that's great. I no knock to anybody. But there are those people where sometimes the hype gets so big and people don't really know.

They get caught up in it so fast that it's, oh my gosh. The now it's gotta happen. It's $2,000. Not stopping to think, well, if I don't hit Colorado, I'm out money. And that's just the reality of it.

And so that is a mistake that I think people repeat sometimes over and over and over is you have to understand you can't always measure hype, but you can understand what's behind it. And you have to understand whether you want to buy in or you think it's better for you to sit on the sidelines for a little while and then jump in. And I think, my worry is just with so, so many newer people of the hobby, making those decisions super quickly can just you know, you grab that shovel and you start digging and oh, we've both been in the hobby a long time and, you know, not to dwell on the the addictive nature of cardboard, but we all know it's out there, and and people just have to be careful there. Yeah. Hype can be blinding in that Cooper example, auto, That example you brought up kinda makes me think that there are a lot of things that collectors get caught up in and ignore when hype is present.

And that example specifically, I'm like, okay. If it's $2,000 to buy into the Mavs and his base autos are going for 1,600, but you're just continuing to push forward, it's either, number one, you you've got the discretionary income and you're looking to win big, or two, you just, like, haven't actually done the research to understand that this might not be a cost efficient even if you do hit his auto. What I don't know. What else do you think people ignore that they might not typically ignore when something is hyped up as much as kinda Chrome is right now. Yeah.

I I I mean, I think to it's kind of the point you just made. It's just the the measurables and understanding things. And, you know, it kind of teaches you to maybe lean so much into the emotion and the hype that what's buzzy is what's right, not what's right for you is what's right. And so if you wanna chase Cooper flag, fine. And, yeah, there's gonna be those guys out there gonna pick apart that statement and go, well, if I hit a Cooper flag and I PSA tenet, then I made a lot of money on the team.

That's like, yeah. You're you're not wrong. I I get it. But if we just take it very basically, you know, the hype train can just catch so many people up so fast, then it then it can cost them money. And I think, you know, if your starting point is what's got hype and what's hot and what's everybody else want and everybody else chasing right now, and that's all it takes for you to say, I'm gonna chase it too, that's the mistake that cost you money.

If the first point is, okay. I'm going into this, and I wanna get into top scoring basketball, and I've got $500 to spend between singles and breaks and everything. And then you look at what are people into and what appeals to me and what fits my collection and what fits my side hustle and the hobby, then you're fine. Because at least you've kinda set those parameters around what makes sense for you. But if the hype gets so crazy that it makes you bypass that step and just dive right in blindly, blindly is a good word like you used, that's when you're gonna cost yourself money.

You're gonna cost yourself time. You're cost yourself stress, and, that's not what the hobby is supposed to be. So that's what you have to be careful not to do. I think we've we we've had a lot of kinda back and forth around hype, and I think you and I can both agree. We're we're looking for sustainability in this hobby.

We're looking for Yeah. The things we're working on to be successful. And so as we're rounding the corner of this chat, I wanna maybe get into that, like, what has to be true for a sustainable hobby to exist with hype? And maybe starting here, what must collectors understand about hype before participating? Like, what is foundational that you think everyone should consider before, you know, jumping in?

Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, we've hit a few of these, but, you know, for one, understand why it's happening. Just because a card is $200 yesterday and a thousand dollars today doesn't mean it's gonna be a thousand dollars forever.

Understand why did it spike. You know, that that's pretty easy homework to do. Understand why the market moves in general. You know, I personally like, I would never buy a single from any new release product in the first two weeks after release because you see these cards come out and and believe me, we sell all of them. I I almost feel bad for the buyer half the time.

It's like it comes out, and they will spend $50 on an insert just because it's the first one on eBay. And fourteen days later, it's a $9 card. And, look, it's great for us, and this is why I don't think hype is a bad thing. We've got collectors and dealers and just everyday sellers who make a lot of money by selling through us because there's always those people who need it. And they're willing to pay for it.

Even they want it for their PC. They wanna grade it, have the first one graded. And so they understand what they're buying. They're willing to do it, but be willing to take part in that. So, yeah, just understanding why, whether it's a market or a player or a product specific thing.

And then once you know which of those three categories it falls into, just kinda project out where it's gonna go. You're not gonna be right every time. You have to be okay with that, but you guys might be willing to understand it without blindly joining it. We before we hit record, we were talking about just, like, breaks, and I know you partner with a lot of different breakers. And I'm I'm assuming that the people you're working with aren't the people we're talking about here.

But it's there's a lot of breakers that are just overselling and overhyping, every card that's pulled. So I'm I'm constantly like, that makes that that causes me to be a little concerned about the future of our hobby when I'm I'm seeing, a a out of one fifty card of some common player be gassed up. So I do think at some level, there's some responsibility, although this park is un unregulated, so sellers are gonna do what they want. But, like Yeah. What what is that responsibility do you think sellers have that are, you know, selling into this hype?

Yeah. I mean, not on some level. On every level, they have that responsibility. Now some of them will ignore it, and that's, you know, that's just the the reality of the world. But, you know, so many things that are big in the hobby day.

Look how big repacks are. And then we talked about a little bit before and too, but repacks have exploded. With repacks, you should have the responsibility and obligation for transparency, you know, even if that's what we see, like, fanatics doing with instant reps. Now, you know, you might get screwed sometimes, but you can go and see every card that's in that product. You know your odds.

I think there's other guys who have done this. I know the guys at Blez are doing a repack online right now that gives you the same thing. You can see all the cards. You can see estimated values. You can see your odds.

Like, that's good. If if we're gonna have this kinda gambling aspect of it that a lot of people enjoy, we've gotta have the transparency and visibility for people to understand what they're getting into. And I think if we look at platforms, which is kind of the other side of that question, they have an obligation to try to enforce that. So the Fanatics Live and whatnot of the world should be trying to be sure that sellers are following some at least, you know, fairly high integrity practices. And, you know, like for us, you know, on eBay, more of a singles marketplace.

I was at eBay Live. There's breaking too, but they need to hold people to paying what they buy for. They we need to be really locked down on illegitimate bidding or unpaid items and things like that. I know that's a a huge push for eBay this year. It's something we've talked about forever, and I believe it's it's coming very soon.

But those things really do matter matter quite a bit, because that's the only way that we protect people from getting hurt along the process of hype by the system itself. Obviously, you can make poor decisions on your own, and you gotta live with those. But we don't need that compounded by the sellers and platforms out there. During this conversation, I wasn't, like, expecting to come to this thought process. But as we were talking in my mind the whole time, all I could think about was hype from the perspective of this 2021 COVID boom to where we're at now.

And where we're at now, I don't it feels there's a lot going on and a lot of different real reasons, I think, this way, but I it feels like a lot more sustainable, and there's a lot more structure behind it. But I could be wrong. It's just based on my feeling and emotion. And maybe just as we're closing out this chat, I I'd love to get your perspective as, you know, a business operator, like, in hype being the central part of this conversation. It's like, what what's different about the hype back in the 2021 COVID boom to the hype cycles that we're seeing right now in 2026?

Yeah. I mean, those were just wild. That that was like the wild west of the hobby. Like, you you say hype, and I just started hearing Zion without even wanting to. Yeah.

I it it is different. You know, it's it's kinda hard to compare the two because I think that was just it happened so suddenly, and there was so much going on in the world that it just kinda, like, all eyes hit sports cards all of a sudden, and everything just went through the roof because there wasn't yet that window for the marketing and the production and the supply and everything else that people didn't stop to understand why first. It was just huge wave, and we're just gonna ride it. Whereas now, I think there are big waves, but it's more of a, like, slowly building wave. Now there's some very acute spikes when things happen with different players or products or things, but that's what feels the most different to me is it's just, it's a different level of it, and you have more of an opportunity now to stop and decide how to stay disciplined than to just kinda feel so caught up in it that it was as overwhelming as it was at the time.

No doubt. I'll never forget those days. That's that's for sure. And and Zion is definitely the symbol for that. And I was actually watching, I saw highlights when, the Peles were playing the Lakers, and I saw Zion guarding LeBron, and I was like, oh, man.

Zion's actually playing? He's like, actually playing. Yeah. It's and at the time, it was like it was just hard to justify because if we were all so caught up in the craze, but if you really stepped back, like, anytime you're buying anything, you should be able to ask yourself, like, okay. What am I buying this for?

And and you can say, right. Like, this is for my PC or this is a short term flip or this is a long term hold, and you should be able to finish the sentence like, this buy makes sense for my PC because blank. This buy makes sense as a short term flip because blank. This buy makes sense for my long term hold because but and if and if you don't have a good thing to put in at the end of those sentences, then you are just acting because the hype of the market is telling you to. You're not acting because you decided it's like a smart hobby choice for you and, like, doing it in a disciplined way.

And so back then, I don't think anybody was answering those questions. We were just riding it. But I think now there's enough data out there with the card ladders and Ebays and all the market reports and all the marketplace that we can look at that everyone should be able to decide why are you buying it and it makes sense because what. And at least then you're informed of everything you're doing. Won't be the last time we talk about hype this year.

Tory, always good catching back up. We will have more of the staging area with EC Sports eighty seven coming to you very soon. Thanks for listening. Thanks.