We're back. The final episode of the staging area for 2025 with Tory, my friends at DC Sports eighty seven. This is going to be a fun episode. I wanted to look at kinda 10 of my favorite cards that have sold through DC sports eighty seven this year. I spent some time just digging through and hand selecting some cards.

We're gonna get into that, some end of the year observations, kind of a pulse check. And I do wanna talk about tops chrome basketball a little bit. But before we do that, we're recording this before the holidays. Obviously, this is going out after. But, Tory, how are you?

Doing well. Doing well. And I will say I like your list. Obviously, we haven't really talked about these cards offline or anything, but I was skimming it. And I was like, you got everything from, like, eighties, low pop PSA tens to one zero ones, dual autos.

You think you've got literally every covered. There's WNBA and hockey and soccer. So, no. It'll be fun. But, yeah, just for us, like, we were just talking about before we started.

We're ready for the holiday even though for me, it's like, usually, we catch our breath. In the DC sports 87 consignment world, it's like we hit Thanksgiving, and then people decide, I'm not gonna mail so much out this week. I'm not you know, I'm gonna chill for the holidays, and we all kinda just and this year, there was no, there was no, no break. Yep. There, for anyone watching, you can see the picture that Brett just put up.

That was yesterday's mail. And we even because we've been so busy. So normally, what happens is we get mail on Fridays. We sort it, process everything, get everything into the queue. We're not here on the weekends.

And then on Monday, we get, like, you know, the Saturday, Sunday, Monday mail, whatever came in. We've been so busy. We had a crew pick up mail on Saturday so that we would, in theory, have less on Monday. Then we get here on Monday, and that is the post office only. That is not FedEx, UPS, anything.

So, like, it's just it was 500 submissions in one day, many of which were, you know, 20 pound boxes with a thousand cards in them. So, yeah, we we are grateful for it. We love it. Busy is wonderful. But, yeah, no no holiday lull this year.

I, for those that are listening, the image is astounding. And I just I'm, like, looking at this picture trying to, like, trying to think about the volume. And all I keep looking at is in the first cart, there's, like, one of those massive Uline boxes, and it looks like just a a a pebble. And it's like Yeah. Sea of boxes.

But, yeah, it's Pretty one not looking. Right. It's basically, like, eight to 10 of our, like, huge male transporting dollies all in a row, all filled to about four or five feet tall, with no room. And, yeah, it was it's crazy. It's it's awesome.

It's a it's a sign of health for our business. It's awesome to see the hobby continuing to grow. But, yeah, that is not what Christmas week usually looks like around here. Can can you maybe because I think this is a unique time and we'll be on the other side of Christmas, but there has always been this chatter and conversation around auctioning and selling cards during the holidays and stuff. Is there do you see obviously, this is would contradict any, competing theory that says no one should put their cards up for consignment during this time.

But he like, is this different historically than what you've seen in the past based on the DC Sports eighty seven customers and their behavior? Yeah. So, I mean, I I know we've talked about this before, and I'll I'll die on the hill of people think it matters more than it does. What what day you end stuff, you got your people. Because the same way we have people who will say, never end anything on a Saturday night.

I've got guys who will say, I never end anything on a Tuesday night, which usually means you had one car itself for less than you wanted, and you've decided to just blacklist that day of the week forever. But seasonality, like, it might matter a little bit. Honestly, what we see is not an issue of cards selling for less. What we do see is longer times for things to get paid. So, like, right now, we're carrying about 25% more awaiting payment items, like, day over day than we normally do.

So, you know, apologies to our customers. That's frustrating. We we send all the reminders and chase that as much as we can, but that's what I also to see is, you know, stuff kinda sits in a waiting payment for an extra day or two. I don't know if that's people, you know, waiting for a paycheck, that's people who are trying to juggle their budgets between gift buying and PC buying, or who knows? But, yeah, that that's what we see.

I really don't see it affecting what things sell for that much. I I think there's just too many people, you know, not just here, but globally, right, buying from us every single day that, it's kind of protected from that a bit. Good good perspective. And speaking of things that are selling, something that I'm seeing everywhere is obviously Topps Chrome basketball cards, especially on the heels of this release. And this release was definitely a big one, and you saw it everywhere.

The distribution, the breakers, card selling on eBay, the promotion, it just reminded me of or not reminded me, but gave me an indication of, like, maybe what we can expect for for for future flagship product launches. What have you seen? I'm sure there's been a lot of people that have gotten these cards and are sending them to DC Sports eighty seven. But what's your reaction on just the Tops Chrome basketball launch? Yeah.

It's, it's cool. I mean, like you said, we've, we grew up on tops in the nineties, and so I I miss having tops in basketball and all the other sports. So thrilled to see you back. I think the amount of marketing and push and, like, social and all the content everywhere all about it was really cool to see. It's just it's so expensive.

And and I was really worried that because, you know, you saw the wax prices, what it came out at was already kinda high. Maybe you talked to breakers without having a rebuy at, but the new things are going forward. It's, like, even higher. But the singles are doing well. Like, that's it's really good to see that happening because the the worry for me was we're gonna have this all this buzz around this product is gonna come out.

People are gonna buy in. It's gonna look great, which I think it does. It's a good product, and then the single is kinda underwhelmed. And it's like, oh gosh. This this delta between what we're paying to acquire the product and what we can sell our hits for isn't there.

But, you know, we had, like, just the other day, management yesterday, we had a concomitant gold refractor non auto sell for a thousand bucks. Wow. And, you know, and you see some of the low numbered Giannis and Wemby autos and LeBron's in there and Cooper Flag and, like, sees 5 figure sales. So it's it's great. I think I'm just very interested to watch this, and it's like, if these are the price points we're seeing on Tops Chrome, obviously, a lot of buzz, what are we gonna see when we roll into things like Dynasty, right, and and the other higher end products that come out?

So definitely a little bit of wait and see, but I have been really glad to see that the singles are doing really well and performing on the secondary market there, because that'll support the product, you know, longer than just a a one week buzz and then it fizzles out. Did you happen to see the I I can't recall where it was pulled, but did you happen to see the Curry Superfractor? I I saw that it had been pulled, and I also saw the video of the LeBron Super Redemption get pulled. But I I didn't really see, like, where they went from there and, you know, where they're gonna end up or what the plan is for whoever owns them. But I saw, you know, there was a flurry of, like, all these huge cards going off every time somebody hit something big.

I couldn't open, you know, anything social without seeing it right away. But, yeah, I saw a couple of those. It reminded me when I saw the courier, it just my the thought that was running through my head was, can you imagine for the courier rookie that was in or Superfractor that hasn't been seen that was in just, like, the tops product, can you imagine if the hobby was the hobby now, but then in the volume of breakers, it'd probably be like that card that everyone's been looking for for forever. That card would have probably been pulled in, like, the first three days. For sure.

Right. Right. It's always crazy because we think they make so much product so much product, and there's, like, you know, 10 cards everybody's after, and it's like, see eight of them in the first forty eight hours because you've got a thousand breakers doing 5,000 breaks. But, it's cool. It's exciting.

It it feeds into the buzz and the rush of these kind of releases. So I I don't I don't hate it. It's the same as, like, the top chrome update baseball comes out in this debut patch after debut patch hitting social so many people are ripping it. So it's cool. Okay.

So we're gonna get into I just hand selected 10 cards. Some of these cards, we might have talked about. I know the first one we have in previous episodes, but I wanted to pick I picked this list based on cards that I thought were cool and just the diversity around cards that come through DC Sports eighty seven. We're just gonna spend a minute on kind of the 10 cards that I thought were super cool that sold through DC Sports this year. The first one is this 2012, twenty thirteen Prism, Tim Duncan Gold Prism, BGS 9.5, sold for 28 k in August.

I'm a big Prism simp and a fan of the debut. And I see this card, and what I wanted to talk about was just Duncan and all he accomplished. And there are Duncan collectors, but it you know, you you take this. And if this is a Curry or if this is, you know, a LeBron, it's multiples of the sale of this card. So it makes me think that, like, man, debut set, one of the greatest the greatest power forward of all times.

Yep. I know 28 k is nothing to sneeze at, but still seems like there could be some value in this set. But, yeah, Tim Duncan, what what'd you what'd you think of when you saw the sale? So I I'd tell you what, I have more thoughts on this set now than I did then. Agree with the we all hate big men, and I don't know why, you know, in basketball.

I I almost wonder if over time, the Wendy's and Giannis's and some of these guys maybe can find a way. You know, Wendy's maybe the first one who really came along where it was like a big man with that much excitement when he first hit the league. Obviously, Yanis has become, you know, one of the best. But, the same way, like, in baseball, we all hated on pitchers forever. Was like a pitcher's market could never really be what the, you know, the big home run hitters market could be until Skeens came along.

And then we fell in love with Skeens and Yamamoto and Jacob Mizrauski and all these other guys. What's interesting about this card to me is really just the set more than anything else. So, you know, agree with your takes on maybe he's not appreciated enough compared to guards and shooters we see. But, how are we gonna look back on this? Because it's the first year of Prism, and now going forward, we won't have licensed Prism.

Kind of like, how are we gonna look back on the return year of tops Chrome and things like that? So just how do some of those, you know, beyond just the player on the card? And, obviously, yeah, first year Prism, gold, you know, top ten, fifteen player all time, best power forward all time. It's it's got all that going for it. But just curious how the value may appreciate over time if we come to you know, there's a lot of people with Prism nostalgia or we, you know, more of a finite supply because it's not gonna keep coming out licensed.

So very curious what these and all the early year prisms of the GOATs and Stars do, you know, in the coming decade or so. We move over to baseball. It can't be a top 10 list without a Shohei Ohtani 25 tops diamond icons, one of one. Sick patch. Got his auto on there.

Nice foil. This sold for $24,949 in November. I mean, it's almost we've talked about Ohtani so much here that it's I don't know, man. It's it's almost every conversation I have is about Ohtani, but I I'm curious, like, now that maybe the dust has settled a little bit on this season. Like, this card, Ohtani's cards in general, like, what what do you are you are we still seeing the same momentum?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, everything Ohtani just sells crazy. Like, even you know, recently, we had tops cosmic baseball come out. Great set.

Really fun product. And it's like you get all these SPs in these inserts, and they do well for your judges and trouts and Acuna's and all the other stars right now. But then, Ohtani's just on another level, and I just feel like we don't see it slow down. I feel like there's gotta be a ceiling somewhere, but it's kinda hard to have that conversation when we're on, you know, three MVPs in four years and four total or whatever he's at now and they win back to back world series and the stats he puts up. It's like, I don't know.

It it's kinda tough. I feel like he's just a unicorn right and none of us really know because if he comes back next year and the Dodgers win another one and he wins another MVP, like, you know, we're just gonna say the same things over again. So I'm gonna hold any any being bearish on the Ohtani market because that's, made people look like fools in the past. Yes. It has.

Really cool card. We move over to a card of a couple legends. This is the 2006, 2007 exquisite Jordan Bird Enshrinement Auto out of 10 and a BGS nine five on card auto selling for $21,101 in October 25. I saw this card, and, Tory, I was like, this card is incredible. I'm for as attached as Bird and Jordan are in this era, I just am not used to seeing a lot of cards of them together in autos, maybe more bird and magic stuff.

So this one certainly stood out to me as the autos look absolutely incredible on this card too. Both of their autos are blue, bold, and I this is what this this one might be and I'm not a huge auto guy, but just the the this brought me back. Yeah. No. It's cool.

And and it's one of those, to your point, when you get the multi way autos, I think a lot of times for me, I'm I'm sometimes not anti them, but, like, I'm really cautious with multiplayer autos nowadays. Because if you open them and it's a three or four players who aren't really established yet, it's like, one of these guys could just make this card look like a joke down the road. Right? It's like, we laugh at the you know, what's the 2,000 Skybox Brady rookie where it's like the Carmazi guy or whoever's on it with it. Like, I don't know who that is.

So when you have two legends, you know, two goats from the sport, they're on CardAutos. And you're right. We I feel like we see almost more exquisite that's like bird magic, or it's like Jordan Kobe or Jordan LeBron or some of those. So really cool pairing. And, yeah, anytime you can get multiple grades of the game on card, I you know, not not much more, and you can say about it, and then Jordan stuff's already, you know, through the roof all the time.

And it's one of those, like, yeah, it's north of 20 K. It's, it's not a cheap acquisition, but I don't really see a world where a card like this tanks. Right? You know, you're gonna sit flat or see some slow appreciation over time because the supply is just so limited. We're moving over to, another sport.

We're diverse here, Tory. We're we're talking You are. We're talking soccer for all you soccer collectors out there. 2018 eminence high end product. We have a Lionel Messi, one of one, OnCard Auto, Transcendent Talents selling for 15,000 on October 5.

Messi, OnCard, You've got one of one. You've got high end product. I mean, you've got him in the Argentina kit. It's kinda it checks a lot of boxes. No.

For sure. Yeah. I mean, you kinda just explained why it's sold for so much. That's the one of one Argentina eminence. Like, yeah, we we kinda got it covered there.

But, yeah, it's cool. These are you know, you just don't see these cards coming around a lot, and it's cool because with a set like you know, some of the other sets, if you look at a prism or a or a chrome, you know, you're not seeing the super fracture or the prism black finite every day, but you're seeing those cards. And eminence, you just don't see that much, you know, much less the one on ones, but you don't see any of them that often. So, super cool to see this one come through. Agree with you.

With all the soccer players, not a huge soccer guy, but I feel like the the national kits is always gonna beat the club stuff. It just feels that way. Maybe that's not true all the time, but, yeah, awesome card, cool sale, and, yeah, glad you you snuck soccer in here. I did. This card, baseball here, 2017 Bowman, Ronald Acuna, Chrome Prospect Auto, gold refractor out of 50, BGS nine five, auto 10, selling for $10,859.

This just sold on December 7. I picked this card because when I first started getting serious about the hobby again, this seemed like such a staple card in Yeah. That moment in time. And, honestly, like, I haven't been following this card in Acuna, and I know you're more of a baseball guy. But I just wanted to get your thoughts and opinions on just, like, this card, where it where it was, and maybe where it where it is now in Acuna and just, like, your overall thoughts.

Yeah. I I think this card and the last card that we're gonna cover on this list are the two that have the most, the highest likelihood to move in value. You know, we the ones we just went through, Ohtani's kinda locked in. Bird and MJ are GOATs. Messi's not moving.

But Acuna is coming off a not great year. You know, he was coming back from injuries, so he wasn't at peak health. But the last time he got hurt, you know, he's had a couple of these knee injuries now, came back a little slow, then took off, right, and and was playing MVP level. So, I think this card is down from where it'll end up. But, you know, it's that how much risk do people wanna take, and do you take the sure thing?

And, he's proven what he can do, which is why even after a not great year, it can command this kind of money. But I do think next year is a huge year for him. You know, the the braves were a little bit off. Albie's wasn't healthy the whole year. Acuna wasn't right the whole year.

They had pitching injuries. Like, that team was not what we're used to it being. So I think he's somebody to be really high on going into next year. It'd be interesting to see if we talk, you know, eight, ten months from now where this card's sitting. We move over to another baseball card.

You alluded to a high grade. We've got an 85 leaf Kirby Puckett PSA 10. This sold for $8,988, September 3. It is a pop 25. I mean, when I think about childhood nostalgia, one of the players I certainly think of is Kirby Puckett.

Just was such an excellent hitter, and it's cool to see cards like this kinda live on, especially in high grade. What do you think about, like, this this this market where, you know, people are chasing PSA tens of these base rookie cards in this era where stuff is mass produced in a card like this Kirby Pocket Leaf? Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy because, you know, we get so, kinda conditioned to, like, today's world of the hobby, and the we talk about multipliers and values from if a nine is this, then what's a 10?

And it's like, you look at these sets and just throw all that away. You know, Leaf you know, a little less Leaf was produced than Don Russ, so that gives it a little rarity right there. But, you know, any set from the eighties to say something's a pop '25, like, it just it sounds crazy because you and I know how much of that stuff was flying around back then. So, you know, I think Kirby is a a cool case. Like, I know fans absolutely love the guy.

He had such a personality. He did not really look that much like an athlete when you looked at him, and yet he was flying around the bases and playing a great center field. And so, you know, gone way too soon, obviously. But yeah. Cool card.

You know, to me, this kinda sits in that group of, like, Puckett and Clemens and Maguire and all those guys with those 85 rookies where it's, like, up to a nine, you're kinda at one value, and then it's like, okay. Here's the crazy multiplier to get to a 10. So, worth every bit of this, I think. And I think over time as more people get into the hobby and we look at the eighties maybe as more vintage than we have in the past decade, the command for it'll keep going up. But, yeah, awesome card to see in this grade.

We move over to a card where we're used to talking about it from a basketball perspective, but this one was so cool that I had to include in the list. And it is a '98 FLIR tradition, Barry Sanders, Playmaker Theater out of a 100, PSA nine. Sanders has certainly become one of the highest or most collectible players in football cards. This card sold for $7,720 or $29 in February. I know Sanders' market certainly has gone up a lot since then.

And what I wanted to bring up is just the fact of, like, what are your thoughts on these insert sets that have been so renowned in basketball? Do you think it translates eventually to people looking at them in football like this one, or do you think maybe they they just operate in their own worlds and football collectors will pick and choose the sets and parallels and inference that they like? Like, how do you look at this card in under that lens? Yeah. I I think to some extent, but I think it's really player dependent.

So I think in basketball, you know, we look at, like, the PMGs and the thunder and lightnings and, know, cards like this. And it it's really cool, and they take off. And it's like, there'll be players I barely heard of or know almost said nothing about selling for 4 figures. I feel like in football and in baseball, there's a translation of that. But if you're Barry Sanders, Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, you know, some of the Youngs and Marinos and the huge collectible players from that era, then they kinda see this premium because I think they are recognized, and there's such a command for those.

I just don't think it really gives that boost as much to the lower end of the market. But, yeah, to your point, you know, I think Sanders is one of, if not the most collectible guys from the nineties, which is crazy because he only played ten years. And we say only. I know ten years isn't a short time, but, like, he was, like, seemingly at his peak when he stopped. So, you know, it's like, this was not a Andrew Luck.

Let me walk away way, way early. This was a you know, I'm I'm just killing it, and I've been doing it for a decade. And, you know, I hate it because I'd love to see him hold all the records that now belong to Emmett Smith and others. But but yeah. So I agree with you.

There's some translation. I just think it it really goes to the high end players more so than it does the full spectrum of them, where in basketball, there's just, like, this grail chase of anything that's, you know, one of those cards, and so it's a little more widespread. We move over to hockey. We've got a 2015, twenty sixteen exquisite endorsement rookie relics of Connor McDavid and a BGS nine five auto 10 out of 50. This card sold for $7,600 in February.

It feels very much as someone who does not talk about hockey cards every day. It seems like whenever you're starting the conversation, you're talking about past, it always starts with Gretzky. If you're talking about now, it always starts with McDavid. So I know even nonhockey card collectors feel like they they buying a hockey card of a player, it's usually McDavid. So cool to see a card like this sell through DC Sports eighty seven.

But maybe I know he's still awaiting that Stanley Cup, but what, what are you seeing with McDavid's cards this year? Yeah. What you just said, it's like, you know, his his there's the bottom's not gonna fall out of his market because he is the best player in hockey. Don't think anybody disputes that. And when you look at, you know, modern, ultra modern hockey cards, like you said, he's the guy.

To me, I think of him a little bit like I think of a I don't think Josh Allen in football, and I'm only trying to draw comparisons because Same comparison in my brain. Because I'm a football baseball guy, so I have to, like, anchor my takes to that. But it's like, Josh Allen is not head and shoulders above other players in his league. Maybe McDavid has more of a gap there, but it's like there is one thing left to happen for his market to take the next step. His cards are not ever gonna be cheap.

And look at Josh Allen prices. Look at McDavid prices. Like, they are up there. But everybody knows this is back to back years the Oilers went and lost. So if they can get there and get it done, that's when we see that next step.

And the thing is even if they don't, he's gonna go down as, you know, a Marino type. You know, all time great, just number one one. And so, you know, I'm not worried about his market. I think more people look at it and say, hey. He's kind of a safe blue chip investment in hockey.

And if he gets that cup, then we see what happens. But, yeah, definitely, that's the that's the connection I'm making other sports with him. So I wanted to call out this is a card that I was watching for a while, and I was like, if it doesn't get too crazy, I'm gonna make maybe make a bid on it. But it, she won a national championship in her, freshman season. This is the 2425 Bowman U, Sarah Strong Superfractor, one of one.

It sold for $6,625 in April. So this literally on the heels of, the national championship, someone listed this card, and I was like, good timing. But I I wanted to bring this card up because it it really feels like there's a lot of momentum around Bowman U Chrome stuff and this idea that you can buy in and prospect in this NIL era, there's a product to support it. And, I I mean, a couple years ago, you wouldn't even fathom seeing a sale like this for anybody in any collegiate sports, and now we're starting to see them regularly. And I think a big reason for it is because this product hosts cards like super fractures that collectors, desire.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's interesting because I do like the narrative around the Bowman U NIL world to the point you just made has really shifted over time where, you know, I remember when they kinda first started being a thing, and all I would ever hear was, you gotta sell it. Get rid of it. Get rid of it.

As soon as a pro uni thing comes out or soon as next set comes out, it's gonna tank and be worthless. And there was some truth to that, and now it's just different. And and I think some of that is just social media and sports culture being in the hobby more where you identify a player with where they went to school longer. You've got your PC people who are gonna always want the Sarah Strong Yukon cards no matter where she ends up in the WNBA. And so there's kind of those angles to it, but also just it's just gotten popular.

And I think as you got younger people starting to follow sports at younger ages and you latch on to these people in their NIL phase before they're pro, there's just a bigger market to sell to. So, it'll be interesting to see how, you know, Bowman U and NIL products progress over time, but, we definitely see a lot right now where it is more holding than people used to. Well, to your point, when you brought up when this was sold, there's a lot of that timing where you got a huge ball game. You got a national title game. You got a Heisman announcement.

We will get flooded with those collegiate cards of those players to sell while they're forefront of everybody's minds. Yeah. And I can assure you that as someone who looks at this stuff, the Caitlin Clark Iowa stuff has has not gone down. I mean, she she's so iconic from that time period that people still want her cards as an Iowa Hawkeye. And I think, especially with someone like Strong who has so much time left still in college, like, she's already won a national championship, there's enough fans and collectors that will just remember her by being a UConn Husky and being a winner.

And I think that matters in terms of, like, the long term hold versus the, like, get rid of it quick game. Yep. Agreed. 100%. Alright.

We just talked about this card, but I watched this guy play this weekend. And it was the first moment of I knew he was good, but then I was like, man, this guy could be the best player in the NFL. And it's the '24 Prism Drake May variation called Prism that sold on November 23 for $9,900. Just does not play like he's this is his second year. He Right.

How did the Patriots end up with another one like this? It's the question I keep asking. But, I mean, this guy dropped one in on Sunday night football against the Ravens, and I was like, that is one of the best throws I've seen this year. So I would imagine I'm not the only one who saw that, and people are gonna be grabbing his cards like crazy right now. Yeah.

For sure. And and I think people feel like the Patriots is kind of ascending, which is crazy to say. I'm I'm sure you've got some jealousy because you went, you know, Manning to luck who then left you too early to then Yeah. You're you're trotting Philip Rivers out now. There So you gotta feel some kind of way about the Patriots having Drake May.

But, yeah, it's like, I agree. You know, carries himself very maturely, makes plays you don't expect, seems to be learning the game crazy fast. You know? Last year, I think everybody liked him, but it was kind of we were so enamored with the Jaden Daniels stuff going on. That 24 class has really blossomed, but the Patriots are phenomenal.

I mean, just look at their record this year. So it's really interesting. The reason I mentioned earlier, I think this card has a lot of room or we'll see is, like, what's gonna happen now because it's okay. He had his, you know, coming out party this year. Where is next year gonna go?

Before we get there, like, what are the playoffs gonna look like? Because what does this card's value look like if they go out and win a playoff game or two? You know, if he gets two wins and the nice thing is he's still only a second year player. We're not expecting a Super Bowl or demanding a Super Bowl for hobby movement like we do with Josh Allen. We're just asking for show us on the biggest stage you can perform in this, like, beyond your years what you have in the regular season.

So very curious to get to the NFL postseason and see who Drake May does. I think he'll be, like, the guy being watched in the hobby. The question I keep asking myself is, can you imagine what happens if he does, though? Right. Right.

Yeah. So now then what? This is a $25,000 card, and what happens to the rest of it? You know? I don't know.

We'll we'll have to see where it goes. Some amazing cards selling through DC Sports eighty seven. Definitely, if you're looking to sell your sports cards on eBay, I've had a great experience working with DC Sports eighty seven. You should go use them too. Tori, before we get out of here, I wanna hit some, like, just eight eight or so questions, just maybe a provide we did a look back last time, maybe a look forward on some of these topics that are on my mind.

And let's start here with maybe an attention topic. And when you look maybe at bidding behavior right now, where do you see a collector attention shiftly or suddenly moving to quietly moving to? Like, is there any trends or anything that's, you're observing? I mean, really, it's just I I mean, we've talked about this before, but I think more and more interest in goats. So not current, you know, the birds and Jordans, like we talked about with basketball, the you know, even, like, vintage in baseball, the Mantle and Aaron and Mays and those guys, and even if not, the Griffys and other players.

You know, in football, the Walter Paytons and and some of those guys. So we have seen a lot more interest in those, and it's kinda interesting because one of the things that we've really seen a boost in is look at a modern set, you know, be it Tops Chrome or Finest, and look at the parallels of, like, a Walter Payton football is a really good example. And it's really interesting where you'll see, like, a blue refractor to one fifty. So, okay, kinda cool card if it's kinda whatever. And on a lot of those all time players, maybe it's a 5 or $10 card.

But on a handful of these guys like him, just it really getting a lot more bids than it used to. So I think people just appreciating some of the players even if they came from prior to their entrance into the hobby and just seeing a lot of demand move towards those guys. What about on the overcrowded side? Is there any areas that you would maybe you're you'd be cautious about? I would think of this time last year, I was like, man, the kaboom stuff.

I'd I'd I'd be very cautious about that, but what do I know? Like, that stuff continued to soar based on repacks and based on just the demand for that. What is there anything you're observing that you think are maybe a little overcrowded? I'm almost hesitant to answer this one because I, like you, would have given terrible takes a year ago. I would have said something like the kaboons and downtowns and color blasts in the world of panini SPs and case hits are described as more rare than they truly are, and we're gonna see that get too saturated, the market drop.

And, of course, that hasn't happened. And my second answer would have been the world of the tops now and Panini instance and, like, demand for those cards. Like, it just feels like it's almost kinda gimmicky. There's a new one coming out every week, and there's no way that demand keeps up. And here we are with, you know, half million dollar bounties on TopNow cards.

So I'm gonna I don't know. Rather than give you an actual answer, I'm just gonna say I would have been doubly wrong with my past takes. And so maybe the answer is I don't really know, but really look at the market. And if there's a crazy amount of demand, be cautious before you ever say the supply is gonna outpace this and it's gonna fall out because that's not always. That's so so so good.

I appreciate the making yourself vulnerable and the self awareness there. Like, I I've I've I've I'm more wrong than right. Yeah. That's right. Let's talk about maybe just we I I referenced that Playmaker Theatre Sanders is like, is this an opportunity where, you know, you you there might be a premium for this stuff later and we talk through that.

Is there anything you're seeing just in the market where maybe some signals of cards that maybe haven't got a lot of interest, but you see things maybe trending up where this time next year people might be putting a premium on collecting that stuff? Yeah. I'm not gonna say ignored or didn't put a premium on it, but I think your your take with that Playmakers Theater and kind of those other sets we talked about, the Clear Brilliance and PMGs and Star Rubies and all that stuff. I I almost look at it like there's so many people, we've talked about this, rushing into the hobby right now. And trying to think of a way to describe it.

Okay. I almost think of their learning in the hobby is almost like you're going through, like, college or something. And it's like, right now, they're on, like, one zero one hobby basics. Right? And they're learning what's prism and what's chrome and refractors, and they kinda get into all this stuff from modern day players.

And I think as they become more and more educated, they gain a curiosity about what's big prior to when I entered the scene. And so they start to almost look back and understand those grail pieces from the nineties and the the sets that just boomed onto the scene that everybody was chasing in an era when the supply was outrageous, but these weren't even case hits. These were like, hey. I hope to hit one every few cases or whatever. And as they do that and a lot of these people may be older and are a little more financially stable and they wanna pursue some of these, they go after them.

And so I think we're gonna see increased premiums on those things. On the on the rare items from the nineties and early two thousands that we have lifelong collectors with nostalgia chasing. We have now new collectors learning about chasing. And as we look at more and more people looking at the hobby as an alternate asset class, I know it's cliche. We all say it now, but it's true.

They're gonna look at those and go, there's so much demand. That's a safe investment. I go after it. And so we've seen more attention shift to those. So not an ignore and now pay attention, but a already premium and now increased premium going forward.

I wanna dig into maybe the kinda delineation between cards that are maybe being bought and probably are being bought by the end user versus, like, cards that are being bought that people are curious about or might be buying to resell. I think about the 85 leaf pocket example. Like, when I see a card sell like that for 10 k or whatever it sold for, instantly, mind goes, oh, someone's trying to build a 85 leaf PSA 10 set. And so they're willing to pay whatever it takes for that pocket because he's one of the, you know, better players in that set. You contrast that with maybe something new that's coming out, Tops Chrome basketball parallel related that people are buying in the moment.

Is there, like, is it, like where where do you see, like, those two worlds? Like, if you have, like, examples, is there, like, something you're saying where you're like, when you see it sell, it's going to a collector or you feel like it's going to its home versus, like, something that people are just, like, still uncertain about, but they're buying anyways? Yeah. It's really hard to answer because I think there was a point in the past when that might have been true and there was a real clear break. Whereas now I feel like that's almost shifted because there's just so many people in the hobby now, be they PC guys who just buy for their collection, dealers who are flipping, casual fans who buy and grade.

I mean, that that pocket, I could probably go on eBay right now and buy that pocket for $8. Buy it now. Like, I know I know what that card is worth. So you see one for $8, you you start to understand that it's different because you're gonna have that guy who's just getting back into the hobby after years and just goes, you know what? I always wanted a pocket rookie.

I never owned one. I got it for $10. Awesome. I put it in a top loader, put it on a shelf in my office. It's a cool piece I own.

You've got the dealer who says, hey. Somebody's got a bunch of these. They look really clean. They haven't been touched in thirty, forty years. They grab them.

They're grading them to flip to put back into the market because it's a way they can make money to support their business. So the overlap from kinda like this Venn diagram of collector to flipper to speculate to PC, like, there's there's much more blurry lines than they used to be. So I really don't see that as much. Certainly, as people first get into the hobby, there's some curiosity, and there's just some I'm just gonna grab a few cards, guys, see what I like, see what I get into, what sets do I kinda latch onto. But, I think, overall, there is just so many people, so many options, so many marketplaces that, it's hard to draw that line like maybe we once could.

The I wanna talk about maybe the benefits from being patient and if there's any types of cards. When I think about this, I think about just, like, the variety of goat cards you can buy, and some of them might be very, very boring. But you can buy them and sit on them, and you could grade them. And if you hit a 10 of, like, a Jordan insert where there's a lot of them, then you're probably gonna be doing pretty well this year. Is there any other types of cards, maybe outside of, like, the goat stuff that might be collectors might be rewarded for their patience on them.

Yeah. On the patience one, I would say there's two answers. You just gave one, which is goats, and the other is the other far extreme of the market, which to me is the the graded base cards. It it's tricky because I almost think you have to buy them already graded, but, you know, you look at, like, some of these QBs. You can take, you know, rookies in baseball.

So take, like, Pete Alonso. Right? He just he just signed with my Orioles. You can probably go buy his 2,019 tops and a rookie paper and a PSA 10 for, like, $12. I don't know.

I mean, the the cheap cards with these absurdly high pops are so cheap to acquire. Same thing with, like, QBs in football, young stars in basketball. I think there's a lot of opportunity there. This is not COVID era when a Kobe White PSA 10 based Prism card cost me $500. Like, it probably cost me $20 now.

But I think there is something to be said there for if you're high on a player long term and you can buy up Topps Chrome, Bowman Chrome Firsts, Prism, rookies, and PSA 10 grades for 15 or $20, like, hold on to those because you're you're not gonna get them up to 200 like you could a couple of years ago when this huge bubble was in the hobby. But maybe you get that card to $50.60 dollars. And if you're somebody willing to do that, they're more accessible for your everyday collector. It's not crazy expensive. But when the light shines on that player, if they have a great year, they go to the playoffs, you can see 30% bumps pretty quickly even if that means we're going from, you know, 40 to 60, not 200 to 600.

There's those opportunities there. So I think there's something there, but, obviously, you gotta pick your spots right. You don't have to be right every time, but, that's the other end I would look at. What about I I know we don't have a crystal ball, Tory, and we're not going to forecast the future, and it's impossible to say, will the market continue to charge ahead like it's going to? We don't know.

I think we both like to think that. We hope that it's continues to remain strong. But is there anything you can see that sellers maybe are going to have to relearn or rethink next year if they want these continued or good outcomes? Anything that stands out to you? You know, I it it's hard because on one hand, I could say you have to learn timing, and I and I do think we have some sellers we've worked with who really need to understand timing.

And it's both seasonality of the sport. Do you do you wanna sell right as the season kicks off? Do wanna wait for playoffs? Do you wanna hold or buy in the off season? Like, that's something everybody should learn.

But at the same time, as the hobby grows and grows and grows, I feel like that seasonality matters a little less because there's people year round buying every card in every market on every platform all the time. So, that would have been my answer, but I feel like that is less of a factor than it used to be. But, yeah, I think timing still still is a big one, you know, not not getting caught holding too long and not rushing to sell all the time. Although, yes, to your point. No crystal ball means you're gonna screw up.

So take them on the chin sometimes and move on and enjoy the hobby, and you'll be alright. I wanna hit some maybe early signals a question around it and just, like, what early signals do you watch to tell you something is maybe building or gaining traction before the broader market catches on? And I know this is, like, the million dollar question where everyone's trying to seek advantages. But is there anything you you've seen historically in sets and cards and players that might indicate something bigger down the road? That's really hard because, yeah, you're basically saying, like, hey.

If I pull up all the stocks on the Nasdaq, like, what number do I look at to tell me that one's gonna double next year? Like, if I knew that, neither of us would be sitting here. I would tell you, and we would just go do whatever we want with our lives. You know, the the the the one thing that I sometimes look at is I'm always curious, and I always go this is gonna be my partially made switch to your next and last question too. Yeah.

I do look at wax prices a lot because wax has gotten a lot more expensive. Right? New new products coming out are not cheap. And so one of the things I look at is if something comes out at 300 a box and a couple weeks in, it's $1.50 or it's 200. Even if it's $2.40, if it trails off some, there's some lessening demand for that as a sealed product.

Now this is not a fully true in every situation. But if you see that increase, that's generally a sign that there's so much demand for that product that while it's happening in the early stages of release, that might not fully have translated over to the singles market yet. So, like, the fact that tops chrome, 2025, '26 basketball, the light boxes have gone from, I think, was something like, I don't know, $800 when they came out. People were selling it for close to 1,000. So now, like, fifteen, sixteen hundred plus a box tells me the demand for that product is sky high, tells me I can have a little more confidence what those singles are gonna be doing going forward for a longer run than kind of the quick tail off we sometimes see with new releases where it's new product.

We've never seen it. Hits eBay and all these marketplaces and sells for great, and then immediate just drop off. So that's one thing I'd look at, but, again, that's not gonna be applicable in every single situation. We're here to try to help and inform, and so that's why I have to ask this last question is, what mistake do you think a lot of collectors are about to make next year if they don't slow down and and use their heads and think? Yeah.

Yeah. And all these questions are also, like, I feel like I should answer everyone and then give, like, that legal disclaimer. Like, I am not a certified financial adviser. Please do not act on any of the statements I'm making so you and I don't get legal trouble. But Safe Harbor agreement or something.

There you go. Wax. Like, it's expensive. So expensive. And I just so many people I talk to, and this is not a knock on breakers or breaking or anything because I know plenty of guys who have a blast doing it.

I'll get into a break, and it's it's a social thing. Right? Like, that community is fun. The chase is fun too, but the prices are getting outrageous. So just slow down and think about what teams you're taking and what value is there.

Like, use that gets a you know? Well, you know, we could knock back it. We could talk about the PSA back it thing another day, but, like, their site's great. There's a bunch of great sites out there for, like, team checklist for breaks. Like, you're thinking of buying somebody, just go and click on it.

How many autos do they have? What rookies are there? What short prints are there? You know, are you expecting to get much? And understand if you're putting $300 into a team, what you're chasing.

Maybe watch a few breaks. I just feel like that's the one where I know so many people kind of get a social introduction to the hobby right now through Whatnot or Fanatics Live or eBay Live where they get into breaks, and they don't really know what they're doing yet. It's just grab a team. Grab a team. Grab a team.

And you get caught up in the thrill of the chase. Just do a little homework. I I really think that protects you. And same with singles. You know, if you're gonna go buy cards, you're buying it for yourself, that's a little different.

But if you're buying the flip, do a little homework on what those cards have done, where the market is, is it trending up or down, and just, you know, homework pays off in the hobby just like anywhere else. And the more educated you are, the better you're gonna do. Want to, wish everybody a happy New Year. It's been a fun year of the staging area. I'm looking forward to bringing more of these conversations with Tory and the DC sports eighty seven team on the other side of this year.

Thanks, everyone, for tuning in. Thanks.