Another episode of the staging area with DC Sports eighty seven coming at you. This is the, tenth installment.

It's crazy. We've done 10 of these so far. Exciting. Fast. Yeah. It's it's crazy. I feel like we've we've hit each of these with, like, a lot of different variety of topics, and I'm excited to explore, some of that even further today.

But, Tory, we were just talking about this. You're you're doing more Instagram, and I'm seeing the volume of cards that are coming into DC Sports eighty seven. And I asked you, and I'll just we'll put it out here so everyone can listen.

Like, how are you keeping up with all of these cards that are coming through your shop? There are, conveyor belts of boxes, and I can't imagine within each of those boxes how many cards.

And I told you, and I'm not gonna share it here. I'll share it in another time, but I want a card from DC Sports eighty seven this week that I'm really fired up about.

But how are you, keeping sane during this crazy period? Yeah. It's good. I mean, you know, fortunately for us, we've been doing this for long enough that we've, we've got efficient enough processes in place.

You know, it's a lot of different cliches. Like, we've got a place for everything and everything in its place, at least most of the time.

We've got, you know, a a big team. I mean, we're pushing 40 people now, and so, you know, you give enough people good enough tools, you can you can keep up.

So it's just crazy as some of these days, especially this week. So by the time this comes out, it'll be a week removed, but the mail day you're talking about is coming out of the Columbus Day holiday, so we had no mail.

So, you know, we do mail Friday, and then our team's out over the weekend. Didn't get any mail on Monday, so you come in Tuesday, and you've got kinda like a triple up from, like, Friday all weekend and then and then Monday is mail.

So, yeah, it was crazy, but, but it it's fun. Like, it's it's exciting for us to see that much stuff come in. It really is. It's not like, oh, no. This many packages again. Like, it it is not at all that way.

It's it's super exciting. Let's talk about we've talked about this in previewing in other episodes, but the app is here. I downloaded it. I had to check it out, which is I'm I'm way more of an app guy.

Like, if you give me the opportunity to jump on an app, I'm going to use it. And from, me being inside the app, I was very excited about my future use of, the app in order to track cards and everything.

But, like, talk about the launch. Like, what can people expect, any feedback that you've gotten on the launch so far?

Yeah. So we launched it, actually, last Monday. I had it published to the App Store on Monday. I didn't tell anybody or put it on social media until, like, Wednesday, Thursday, so that was my equivalent of a little soft launch.

You know, get it out there, make it accessible, let let us download it, let a few people see it, make sure there's no gotchas early on.

But the the feedback overall has been overwhelmingly positive, so that's awesome. I feel like I should knock on wood. You know, I'm not gonna have something break after we get off, but, it's been really smooth.

You know, the the good thing for us is it's really just trying to flip the whole direction of the way we interact with customers and, not to, like, rock the boat radically change everything.

Just our legacy platform and we still have our website.

You know, not everybody's gonna use the app, but was really here's where you come to find everything you need to know about your consignments, about your account, about what's going on on our eBay.

The intention of the app is to flip that of here's the vehicle we use to tell you everything that's going on. It's 2025. Like, you you shouldn't have to go look up, hey. How much in sales did I have last night?

Hey. Did they get my package? Things like that. And so, you know, the beauty of the app, like you mentioned, most people are mobile first app people like you are, and they wanna be told everything.

So the fact that on your home screen when a package arrives, there's just a push notification that pops up.

You know, we received your package. Here's what type of days. Here's what day we have it scheduled to go live on eBay. That's great for people.

Like, they don't wanna have to look that up on their own. If you get a reply from us on a support ticket you opened or a question you sent in, the UI for that is way more gonna feel like you're texting with somebody.

It's just kind of a back and forth, get a notification when we send you a message. So, yeah, it's really just all about let's notify people as things happen, not make them come try to seek it out as it happens.

What I appreciate, and I think this is by design, is try to give everyone all of the information that they need, in advance so that there are no questions.

But inevitably, with consignment, there's always questions. And I think in my experience, and I've, you know, used a lot of different services, there's never been bad experiences.

But one of the biggest gaps for me has always been, like, the communication part. Like, I need a question answered, or I, you know, want some more visibility in a certain area.

And there's always a little bit of a delay, but, like, in watching, like, the promo video that you all put together with the app, it's, like, one of the things that you highlighted and you just mentioned there is, like, the ability to, like, talk to someone and it just feels like you're texting with someone, which I think is really important.

How how big of a role, like, was, like, the customer service component to and the communication component, to this new, way that people can interact with DC Sports eighty seven? Yeah.

I I mean, honestly, it was the single biggest, reason for it because it was the the two things that we got negative feedback about the website with were, one, support and messaging is there, but it's not easy enough to use, easy enough to access.

It's accessible enough.

And the second was not everything, and and this is absolutely true, is fully optimized for mobile screens. And so when when you're trying to look at a huge page of transactions, that's not always gonna display cleanly.

And so with the app, the goal was make all that cleaned up. And then to your point, make it way more accessible and way easier to talk to us, and not just in the way it looks.

So we did kinda, you know, steal from Apple. It feels very, you know, iMessage y when you go in there. You know, it depends on our our iOS and Android users listening to this. It is available on both. Don't worry.

We didn't leave the green textures out. But, but also little things like if you have the app and if you've sent us packages, you have cards listed with us, you can go to your listings page and view all your items we've listed.

And if you just tap on one of them, there's just a message about this item button. So if you wanna edit made to a title, you see something wrong, you can ask.

You can go to any one of your submissions and do the same thing. And so we wanted to make it where you could see everything, and then from there, initiate a conversation in one touch. And and that's the way they're actually built.

We've added another person to our customer service team who's helping field all that because as we make it easier to message us, as you can imagine, our count of customer service tickets has skyrocketed.

But it's great because they're way more direct. It's a message right off an item saying I have this question. When is this gonna relist, or, can you make this change for me? Can you have the pop count?

Things like that. And people can do that way easier now. So, yeah, it's it's both the, immediacy and the urgency and kinda like the rapid nature of it, but also just ease of use and not if anybody ever has to ask, hey.

How do I do this? We didn't make it intuitive enough. And, you know, that's what we're trying to avoid by having the app out there. Awesome. Everyone, go download it and check it out.

Tory, I didn't put this on the list of things to talk about, but I figured, like, we let's let's just get your take on the situation, and that's baseball playoff related. As we recorded this, like, I sat down.

I watched Mariners Jays last night. I'm a home run guy. So I was like, I like see I like seeing some bombs drop, but I don't know. Both sides, like, what what is your read on where we're at right now in the playoffs?

Yeah. So I know on our last episode, we talked about this briefly, and I remember saying that I thought the Yankees and the Dodgers were going to the World Series.

So clearly, I missed on the Yankees there. Now I will say I did say watch guys like Cam Schlittler because a couple big starts in the playoffs, you could see some markets go crazy, and boy did his go nuts.

And same for, like, Trey Savage on the Jays and some of these young players. So, you know, I'll I'll give myself, like, half points for the end right now then, but, I'm I'm sticking with the Dodgers to win.

I I just don't see somebody beating them. You know, you got Blake Snell firing on all cylinders right now, and he's one of those crazy streaky guys for a lot of seasons.

He's, like, just a guy until, like, June, and then he just takes off and he dominates. Yamamoto's on fire, and this is without Otani hasn't been that good.

So it's like, imagine if that gets brought back in. So, I'm sticking with Dodgers as my pick, but my favorite thing right now is just watching the ALCS. I think the Dodgers have just they've been there so many times the last few years.

We all kind of expect it, but Mariners and Blue Jays are a little different. It's like either those teams in the World Series could be fun. Watching Julio and Vlad kinda both go off right now has been really cool.

So, yeah, it's it's a great handful of teams because the Brewers are super young and fun to watch, so are the Jays. You've got young stars all over the place, and then it's kind of like the the big bad guy we gotta beat in the Dodgers.

But, I I have not watched as much as I would have liked, been a little too busy, but, what I've caught, I really enjoyed, fun teams and and fun crowds too.

Like, the Mariners have an awesome turnout. When you when you watch their games and, you know, it's just fun to watch, like, the highlights of home run and home runs and just people going crazy in Seattle.

You know, some of these, like, Richter scale readings about, you know, audience reactions of hover over and stuff. So, so, no, it it's a cool it's a cool group of teams.

I'm gonna stand by my pick of the Dodgers to win everything, but, excited to watch it play out the rest of the way. Shout out Seattle. It's like the twelfth man with the Seahawks. They always have, like, patched it and allowed fans.

Is there before we move off of baseball and maybe tying it to cards, is there anyone or anything you've seen from a player currently in the playoffs, card market that might have, like, longer term implications based on just a performance that they are, displaying kinda this post season?

Or do you expect things to kinda level back off once the playoffs are over? I didn't know if there's an individual that's kinda standing up to you.

Right. No. For for me, it would be the two guys I just mentioned in the AL. It would be Julio or Vlad. And and I only answer that way because of the way you phrase the question of what are longer term implications.

And I think with those guys, it's a little different. I think we all know, like, Ohtani is, like, the blue chip everybody's gotta have him guy in the baseball market these days.

But if Vlad or Julio can perform this way in a world series and if they could win a world series, I mean, imagine either of those guys with a a world series MVP with a great stat line and then they take home a championship.

I think those are those guys where if you look at, you know, rookie years, these are, you know, 2022 for Julio, 2019 for Vlad, but they're both they came up through the minors so fast.

They're still pretty young guys that I think this is that next step for them. You know, we ask all the time with star players, like, they've got established markets.

Their cards do great. What does it take to take the next step? And I think with these guys, it's what's happening right now. It's performing in the playoffs, going deep in the playoffs so that they can win it all.

I think even though there's gonna be that immediate spike that's obviously not gonna last forever, that's gonna carry weight into next season because it's gonna be just those other items on the hobby resume that we all want.

And if they keep playing the way they are, I think they'll they'll trend up.

So, those are the guys I'm watching. Not that either are, you know, cheap bargain bin names right now exactly, but, who could certainly take the next step hobby market wise.

The main topic in today's conversation is gonna be talking about market efficiency, and wanted to get Tory's perspective just based on access to data, new technology.

We talked about the app and get into that. Before we do that, I wanna just maybe talk about some card sales. And I picked three subjects from different cards that were sold over the past week by DC Sports eighty seven.

They're all we've got a variety of cards, but I think they're interesting topics. So the first card that I have up is the 2425 Donnerus Optic, LeBron James, downtown PSA 10.

This sold on October 11 for $8 via auction. When I saw this sale without even looking anything, my I asked my question was, like, man, how many downtowns does LeBron have?

And then second was, like, I can't believe, like and maybe I should believe this based on, like, the downtown market that this card is selling for $8.

And then I looked at the sales history and realized that this was only the second PSA 10 copy of this card that sold, which is always good when there's not a ton of sales in advance.

But wanna get maybe your perspective on, like, this card and LeBron and down and maybe just like downtowns in general.

I know I'm sure you see a ton of downtowns coming through, but it seems like as we're kinda turning to the tops era and leaving the Panini era, this last lap or last couple laps have I think this especially on the basketball side, this era will really be identified by these case hits like the downtowns.

Yeah. Agreed. I think, you know, kabooms and downtowns are obviously the two big ones, and they're not going anywhere.

Like, I think those are gonna be staples of everybody who's been a player in this area era and have those cards produced for a long, long time.

I'll say that a part of me always looks at downtowns and says these are, like, the least rare rare cards ever because they just keep printing them and they keep coming out, and I know we wanna call them case hits and SPs, and they are relative to other, you know, base parallels and inserts and things like that.

But there's just such a craze and demand behind these that I think this is way more laws of economics than this is laws of the hobby. This is not radical rarity.

This is supply and demand, and the demand for these downtowns and just chases in case hits like these is just so high that when you layer onto it, the fact that even as they've been printed year over year, we then look at, okay, what players don't have as many of them as others, and then where are the low pops like you mentioned?

You know, this is a PSA 10. The pop count's not that high. And then people start to look at the licensing transition and the fact that we're not gonna have these licensed indefinitely, and that's coming to an end.

And so it's a very unique mix of there really are quite a few of them out there, but there's just insane demand for them.

And then you start looking at those angles of, okay. Do I have to buy now if I wanna own it because the market's gonna dry up over time with no more being produced? And then the little pop counts that it's just, yeah, it's interesting.

It's it's one of those where you maybe get a little sticker shock at, wow, $8 for this. But then to your point, you kinda start to dig into the where the market's at and the attributes of this card, and it goes, okay.

Yeah. Like, $8 checks out. It it should be worth that. Even as a longer term hold. I think it's worth that. So, absolutely understand it if fetching the price it did.

So, I couldn't agree with anymore with what you said in what I did my reaction to this was taking all of those assumptions that you just said that I had in my head when I looked at this and was like, oh, it's the second sale.

Like, that's probably why it's $8.

There's probably not a ton of these, and a ton is different to a lot of different people. But I was stunned by there already was 31 PSA tens, which that is likely going to increase as these continue to get graded Yeah. By PSA.

But what my my question back to you, Tory, is, like, the the repack of it all, like, how much of a role do you think repack culture is on the continued, support and stability of these cards that aren't one of ones and are more ready readily available than a lot of parallels in the Panini era?

Like, what how big of a role do you think, like, repack culture and and that plays in just, like, the stabilization of cards like this LeBron downtown?

Yeah. It it definitely matters because you know that if you've got one, a lot of them are cycling through those.

And, I think with downtowns and kabooms, they're held up by that to some level, but, you know, there is so much demand because I I would say it's all repacks, you know, because we know repack culture is to your point, it's huge right now.

And if you look at those repacks that are more transparent and offer a checklist on what's out there, a lot of times, those chases and grails and and case hits and product hits are these kind of cards.

But at the same time, if I'm at a show, I see everybody wanting to know them. You know? If somebody's a LeBron PC guy, they want a downtown.

If somebody's, you know, chasing any player, it's a downtown and a kaboom is are, like, staples they want in their collection. So, do I think maybe the price support is propped up a little bit?

I I think it would be wrong to say it's not a factor on some level, but I think the hobby has just been so accepting of these as a card to own for a player that it's a lot bigger than that.

And it while it plays an influence, if repack, you know, restrictions and kind of auditing and all the stuff that's kind of been out there in the news too really takes off, I I still don't see that, like, bringing these down.

If repacks were to die off on any level, I think these still hold their value. I don't think that's something that really goes away.

Alright. The next card, and what a timing. Shout out to the seller of this card, and talk about timing is sometimes everything in this hobby. And the card we have is the 24 select Jackson dart x r c gold prism rookie.

First time this card has publicly sold, and what a time to do it fresh off the heels of Jackson darts, greatest performance as a pro so far, taking down the Philadelphia Eagles on the grandest stage.

We all watched it, and so many people probably saw this card, and we're like, oh, man. It's my opportunity to get a great Jackson Dart card. So this thing sold on October 11 for $7,600. What do you have to say about it, Tory?

Yeah. So the the customer sent this in and actually sent this one and then just the the base XRC, like the silver prism card. You know, little little plug for us here. This is why we offer a premium service to our customers.

Premium meaning we get the card in from you, and it's listed that day or the next business day. And so this was one of those cases where guy got the two cards, got them straight to us.

I want them to start on this day so they end on this day. Maybe a little bit of a gamble on how the performance was gonna go against the I guess this was the Eagles game that the Giants won.

So, you know, there's something there, but, yeah, it's, you know, it's what the hobby is now. Right? It's it's guys get hot, names get buzzed, they get attention, and you have to ride that wave.

And so brilliant time to sell, that's the way to do it because worst case, even if they get blown out, this is still selling right as he's got his first week as a starter.

And, you know, selects XRCs have always been super popular, so I I think there was we knew this was gonna do well.

I didn't really know. You know, to me, you could have told me this was gonna end at 4,000 or 14,000, and the the hobby pricing side of me was like, okay. Like, I I guess I can see it.

So, I I feel good about the sale. I think the number is good. But, yeah, definitely the time to sell Dart, when this one ended. I think, you know, the Giants haven't had a lot to be excited about, obviously, over the last few years.

But now there's some sense even if they don't have a winning season, there's some sense of excitement. You think about the New York market, and we've talked about the Yankees a lot.

But, like, do you find that when players are stars or emerging stars in the New York market, their cards like, the the collector base for those cards is, a lot bigger than other segments, so there's always demand.

Is that something, like, you see when there's Yankees players or Knicks players that are, kind of emerging or become stars? Do you find there to be a, like, an increased demand that's maybe a little bit different than other markets?

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, the market matters a ton. If you're in New York, LA, you know, probably make a case for, like, Miami, May maybe Philly in some in some cases.

The the big markets matter a ton. And I think a lot of that is just because the media exposure helps drive some of the hobby demand too.

So, you know, you look at, like, New York is perfect example here with Dart, you know, with him and Scataboo and, like, these young guys on this team and you get a lot of eyes on them and a lot of attention, you see all these clips, it it's gonna help.

And, also, if there is a change, you know, if you go from Russell Wilson to Jackson Dart in New York, like, that's a bigger headline than it is in a lot of cases where it's like, okay, Joe Flacco's on the Browns now.

I mean, there's just you know, these are some of the things that I think depending on the market, that's what matters.

And so that extra buzz, while performance is necessary, the hype of a guy coming out of college or coming out of the minors or, you know, a rookie in the NBA, whatever it might be, like those things do matter.

When you've got all that buzz and social media frenzy that goes around with a guy making his his debut and being a starter and things like that, that's always gonna get a little bit of a multiplier when you're in those big, big markets because there are just more people who collect those teams.

And on top of that, there are exponentially more beat writers and social media accounts and things that are just always amplifying the attention these guys get, and that just helps drive hobby love for them too.

Alright. The last card I wanna highlight is a card that I was excited to talk about, and that's the 53 tops mantle. This is a PSA five sold on October 12 for $7,877.

You know, we're we're we talk a lot about the 52. We don't talk enough. And from a context perspective comparing everything to the 52, I feel like we don't talk about enough about the '51 Bowman.

And I've we certainly don't talk a lot about the 53 tops in comparison to the 52, but a lot of collectors that I talk to remark on the 53 and how they really like it and maybe even compare its iconic nature.

Not necessarily saying it's more iconic than the fifties too, but maybe say it's not too far behind.

But when you see this card, like, what are the thoughts that kinda enter your brain? I know this is one, and we've been talking vintage baseball a little bit and what's coming through DC Sports.

Obviously, this is a bigger vintage baseball card coming through DC Sports eighty seven, but what do you what do you have to say about this card and sale?

Yeah. Yeah. Great sale. You know, I think we are just seeing such a slow but steady climb on vintage.

I know when I look at, you know, some of the cards, anything Mantle from the fifties, Mays, Williams, Aaron, all those guys, if you look at, like, the sales history for a lot of these cards and you can find one that sold in the last, say, six months or so, it's really surprising how well they've done if you go back a year, two years, five years.

But it is just there's only so many of them.

Right? I mean, you you look at Mantel, his first cards in '51, that's his rookie. Please nobody ever call the 52 tops as rookie. That's just wrong, and we need to not do it. You know? And then his last card in '69.

So you've got a, you know, an eighteen, nineteen year window of his cards, and there's, on average, a card per year. Yeah. You know, we've got a couple years where Bowman and Topps overlapped in the fifties.

But, so I think when people look at these, they're kind of that blue chip chip stock investment of the baseball card market where there's they're never gonna go down.

They might level off and stay flat for periods of time, but there's only so many of them out there.

There's not a lot of people gonna be ripping open packs of 53 tops and grading new copies, and so, it's definitely interesting to watch in that aspect.

And then on top of that, I know we've talked about this before, this one looks really nice.

Like, this is not one of those fives where it's, oh, man. It barely eked out a five, but it's way off center or there's clearly some paper loss here it got by with.

Like, it's a great looking copy. And so, you know, if anybody out there starts to get into vintage, you really have to do your homework there and learn, you know, how that matters.

You know, color and centering and how it presents and eye appeal are huge things, and and this one really, really is strong. So, yeah, great great card. Yeah. I mean, I I agree with what you said.

It's it's not the '51 Bowman rookie. It's not the '52 tops, but it's probably the next one up for Mantle. And then he didn't have a 54 Topps card, so you also have to kinda skip a few years to get to his next one.

But, yeah, love this card. Always excited when I get to see some of the higher end vintage come through here because I'm a, you know, baseball nut at heart. So, yeah, really fun to see these sales happen. When a card like this trust me.

We've seen the videos. We've seen the amount of, inventory that come through. But, like, is there a moment at DC Sports when there's a card like this that's coming through that maybe gets everyone to stop and everyone spends a moment?

Or is it just, like, everyone's just crushing constantly and have to move things forward? Like, help us understand when a card like this comes out of mail, like, what what that moment's like.

Yeah. So it's it's tricky, and any of the guys who work here who are like the, you know, quote, unquote card guys will tell you. I remind them often to not stop and look at the cards.

When you're listing, you know, 70,000 cards a week and you have a team of guys who are hobby card guys themselves, they get a little too excited, and and they will often want to stop and smell the roses for a little too long.

So we have to remind people that, like, look, it's it's just got to the machine's got to keep running.

Right? So, every now and then, yes, the 52 mantle shows up or a super high grade 51 or a super fractor of a hot player, yeah, I I wanna know about it.

We're gonna talk about it. But, selfishly, I try to reserve the looking at the cool stuff we have to my every morning firing up the laptop and going, okay. Auctions, highest price, active. What's going off right now?

And that's where I catch a lot of these, because, yeah, if we were to stop and get excited about every cool card we see, we would have a lot fewer cards going up on eBay, and that's, that's not what we're going for.

The I I at some point, there there needs to be a, like, a top 10 DC Sports 87. We will stop for these cards. And, like, if those come, like, then you can spend you can smell the roses for a minute, but that all makes sense.

Right. Alright. So I wanna get into the primary topic, and this is something I've just been thinking about in in lieu of just so much going on. But, like, the question I I'm asking myself is, like, is the market too efficient right now?

And I know that might seems seem crazy, but, you know, we're living in this era where we've got access to more data and information than ever before.

You've got algorithmic pricing and apps like card ladder, and, like, the hobby is more informed than ever before.

And an example I cite this week is I was working, and I open I had, like, a break in the action, and I pulled up Instagram and just saw the story sales or stories of people commenting on the 2012 Marshawn Lynch Prism Black Finite one of one sale, and the skepticism around it, and then how that card was pulled down.

And then moments later, I was putting my kids to bed, and once they were in bed, I looked back, and then that card had been funded and was being promoted.

And it was just like this whole dynamic where we spent this entire day where the hobby was commenting on a card that wasn't theirs and wasn't sure it was for sale, and it was for sale.

And I think about that, and that's just, like, one example. It's like that times, you know, thousands. And so I don't know.

Because we have access to information at our fingertips, like, my question, I guess, to you, as we kick this off, and I wanna explore this from, like, a selling perspective, and I wanna explore this from a buying perspective.

But, like, do you think because of the proliferation of data, like, we are maybe losing some spontaneity and emotion in the process? Like, do you think that's happening? And I know it's a very broad and open ended question.

Yeah. I wanted to start there. Yeah. I mean, for one, I'm never gonna call anything too efficient. Granted that's just as somebody running a business that thrives on efficiency, it would feel, like I was sabotaging myself to say that.

But, so to be honest, I don't. And I think it's because human beings, and that applies to every collector out there, are incapable of fully suppressing their emotion and their desire to be spontaneous.

And here's the best example I'll give you of this. We have for forever in the hobby talked right and as consignors, this is really relevant to us. The reason we work with breakers is we say, hey.

We wanna get your cards as singles from new products on eBay right away because the the prices that you realize are always the best right at release. We have said that for years on every platform. If you ask anybody in the hobby, hey.

If a new product comes out and you hit a big single, when's the best time to sell it? Unless somebody is really holding a player, like, long term, and I get that's the exception, they're gonna tell you right at release.

So we all know that if you buy at release, the price is gonna go down after as the market gets saturated and as there's more supply out there.

We broke Bowman Chrome, and for all our brake partners, we sold it week of release, three day auctions, got it sold right away.

People bought them, paid for them, and we're excited to have them. Here we are, three weeks now after release, and your average base prospect auto is doing 60 to 65% less than it was at release. The data's out there.

We all know it's true, and yet people get so excited. Hey. I real I love this prospect for the I love this prospect for the Oreos. I'm an Oreos guy. Maybe I love Nate George, and I've just gotta have it. I see one in eBay.

I'm so excited. That spontaneous nature in me comes out, bid, bid, bid, bid, bid, and then I pay for it. And I'm happy to own it. And I know I probably overpaid if I do that. But people just keep doing it, and it doesn't stop.

And so just given what we do in our business here, that's always the one example that comes to mind of there's a psychological, emotional aspect of this that's just always gonna drive that even though the data says you should probably do this other thing.

With, like let's zero in on Bowman Chrome in the example, and it's like you've got a maybe, refractor auto where there's there's more availability.

And then let's say you've got, you know, one of the rainbow core rainbow parallels where there's less availability.

Do you find there any difference in upon release, like, more if it's like an orange refractor, people are gobbling those up and they don't care the prices?

Or is it everything just because it's like the first opportunity at one of these cards that people get so excited that it doesn't matter if they they know that there's more coming down the road.

They just wanna get their copy now. Yeah. I I would say the the volatility and the movement in the price is lesser as you go on lesser print runs, so where there's lower supply.

So, yeah, if you if a red pops up, it's very fair to have the thought I might not see another red for six months, or I might not have another chance to buy a red.

So on those sales, I think it's a little different because there's a very finite number out there, and it's a small number, and so it's different.

But when we see, like, day one, you pull up a rookie insert card and you get $8 for it, and that very well may be 99¢ in a few weeks.

And those are the ones where you know there's gonna be mass supply out there of them, and you just see a drop.

And so, I I think there's a there's maybe in this kind of as a different slice of the topic you brought up here, which is we have to look at it in different ways.

And Mhmm. If we're talking about market shifts based on timing, you know, a product that just came out or seasonality of a sport and, you know, when the league opens and things like that.

First, some of this more like staple stuff, like the LeBron we talked about earlier where it's a kaboom, we know how many are out there, we got idea on the price, and that data is kind of there with less to cause it to move.

Those are maybe two different conversations to some extent because one is, I think, super saturated with psychology and emotion and all these things that drive that buying behavior, where another can be a little more of that cold calculated, take your time, I know the comps, I'm using card ladder, and I'm referencing eBay.

And and, you know, the the sources you're talking about where I can be so data rich in my decision making that I can be a little more even and kinda plan things out.

And, those are the cases I think where that happens. And to the point you made a minute ago with, like, the the core rainbow colors and the low print one, it's the same as, like, if a super fracture pops up.

I'm not gonna judge anybody what they bid because there's only one of them. There is no market set, and who knows the ceiling based on a player's future.

So with that, it's like, okay. Data means nothing. But then you get to, you know, here we are and maybe we talk about, like, LeBron's tops chrome rookie, right, where it's been out for over twenty years.

We know the comps. We know the values. We know the you know, by grade. And so, it appreciates over time, but it's a little less, exposed to some of those other elements.

So I'm I'm kinda rambling on a lot of things here, but I think we're all we're talking around the same topic, and it and it's a good topic.

It's just you kinda have to account for all that stuff when we answer the question of what does data mean here. Yeah. Maybe digging into and we talked about an example, but, like, those three examples from earlier.

But, like, from a seller's perspective, I look at the LeBron downtown and that we talked about, and, yeah, there's 31 PSA tens. And I would imagine, or what I assume is that sellers are looking at the data.

They they don't wanna sell cards that have just sold. But I look at that, and even though there's 31 copies, there's only there's only one public sale before this individual sent their card in to be auctioned.

So do you do you find that sellers, because they have access to data, and this is I'm kind of putting a, a lot a separation point here.

I'm not necessarily talking about, like, the one of ones or one of a kind cards. It's more like I don't wanna say commodity cards to disparage them, but it's more like stuff you're seeing more regularly like this downtown LeBron.

Do you find that sellers are taking that into consideration, the data, before they send their cards to DC?

Or is is it just kinda like we're just gonna keep things moving and sell stuff so we can move on to the next stuff that we're going to end up sending in to sell.

Right. Right. A lot of it depends on where the seller's positioned, and I know that's kind of the the ugly, it depends answer that I'm not trying to use as a cop out here.

But, definitely on the cards that are in the low to mid end, if we're talking about the, you know, 5 to $500 cards, we we don't see a lot of that. I think a lot of it is this was and we've talked about this before.

This was in my pile of, like, I'm not hold on holding onto these long term, I'm not grading them, these are card assets I own, I wanna get liquid on those to put that towards something else that I believe in as a whole or a quick flip or whatever it might be.

But I definitely agree with what you said on the higher end because when we look at things and all those things we started talking about earlier, if you can layer in high demand card, graded, low pop, always in demand player, like I think there's a bit of a a thought process there with the sellers where they know what they can probably get for it right now.

But if you feel that number is so safe and locked in where it's a it's here, I wanna wait and see when it moves up, sometimes there's less, that happens there, and so we'll actually see.

It's kinda interesting. Sometimes a card sell at a new high comp, and then you'll see a few more come in because it's kind of a people holding that card see it who are waiting for a tick up.

There's a new comp to go against that hits the auction block, and then the data we are talking about here really becomes our best friend because then you've got this whole buying base on eBay and all the other marketplaces out there who know about that sale.

Maybe it's a card that was regularly doing a thousand to 1,200 and one sells for 1,500.

Now, you know, I, as somebody who owns one, can use that data to say, okay, I'm gonna look at the previous sales as my new floor. That's so safe now, but I can probably reach and get close to this other sale.

Who knows? Maybe I beat it. Maybe there's a reason that market's trending up. And so, yeah, sellers are using the data to make decisions, but I think it's really only influencing that mid high to high end kind of cards.

I don't see it playing a a real role in, like, the low to mid end stuff just because there there's there's less need to there.

Okay. So focusing on that mid to high segment from a buyer perspective, and you you're bringing up this example. And this is something new compass set, let's say. The LeBron card. We'll keep go back to it.

Eight k compass set on a PSA 10. My I'd imagine if somebody has another copy and they're at a card show, they're going to demand that they have they sell that. They'll probably list it at $8,500, maybe more, and then OBO.

But they're gonna they're gonna say, like, I'm not taking anything less than 8 k in all likelihood. But there's the scenario too where someone sends after this sale, someone sends a copy to DC Sports.

Well, one thing I do know in terms of data that when the same copy of a card is resold right after another one, the chance is there are exceptional situations.

Right? I don't wanna put this in a box, but in a lot of cases, especially when it's high population or higher population, those cards go for less, which gives the advantage maybe to the buyer.

So I don't know. Like, those dynamics of, like, in person and buying online, like, I think from a buying perspective, there's so many different scenarios. But, like, you buy cards too.

Like, how do you think about this, especially as you have access to all the same data and information as everyone else does? Yeah. No. And that kind of odd paradox you just described is always gonna be out there.

It's one just sold, so I wanna capitalize because I see the market's really good on it, but I don't wanna be the guy who flooded the market and then all of a sudden we see the price dip.

So I get that. I think it's just we've talked about this before. It's you have to know comps, and nobody should be buying singles if you don't know don't know something.

You know, use one thirty point, use card ladder, use just eBay, look at completed auctions. Like, just do your homework a little bit. You have to know that stuff because I think you have to have a range in mind.

And then once you have a range in mind, if you approach somebody who owns one or if you're sitting on one, you have to be comfortable buying or selling at that point. You know, if it's me, it's it's a matter of a lot of factors.

It's if it's a card I see all the time and one sold for a thousand bucks and that's the new high, so all of a sudden I see everybody throwing them on eBay, $1,100 straight best offer or straight buy it now, no offer because they just okay.

That one got a thousand. I can get a tiny bit more.

I won't take offers. I'll make people pay that. I see people do that, but if it's a card that's common enough or that pops out there, I'm not rushing to buy that. Just personally, if it's a card I wanna own, to me, I'm gonna wait.

Now if it's a you know, or maybe in your case, you probably relate to this. You know? Say you're trying to build a a rainbow of a Colts player and a gold pops up and it's one you need, I think it's different.

And so to me, the the dividing line here is are we talking PC and long term holds or completing a set or a project versus we're talking flipping.

If we're talking flipping, you really just have to look at why did it go up. You know, make sure it makes sense. If there was a big game, a team change, a playoff series, got drafted, I get all that stuff.

And then you can kind of say, okay. Here's why now I'm gonna believe the market sits. If one of those things didn't happen, you really just have to look it in.

We see this all the time with vintage. We'll see that slow appreciation over time. But if you're seeing that ultra modern, just just be smart about it. And sometimes my move is, okay.

It was going at a thousand all day long. I saw one go offer 1,500. I'm just gonna wait and watch the next one. And if the next one is a legit looking sale at 1,600, okay. Now now at least I can start to call this a trend.

If the next one's back at $10. 75, okay, now I know where the exception was. And big part of this data is understanding that not everything can be boiled down to what was the last comp or what is the average number.

You know? Sometimes it's you know, I care more about the median than the mean kind of thing if we're getting into the number stuff and, like, being able to do your homework there.

The this, like, outlook in commentary from our community regarding sales and prices, it always fascinates me.

And it's like, you mentioned the example of me needing a gold, and likely because I need it for a project, I'm willing to pay a lot more than anybody else.

And it's like that factor, I feel like the commenters or commentators don't consider when we're talking about, oh oh, I can't believe the last comp of this card was 1,200, and I can't believe someone just, you know, six months later paid 3 k.

But I feel like our community doesn't take into consideration those factors outside of just comp data. Like, that's something I feel like I don't know.

It's in in any market this happens, but it seems to me that in cards, it's especially when you have a market like we're in right now, it's it's only getting louder, and that conversation is only getting more, divisive.

Right. And it and it wasn't that long ago. I'm trying to remember what was it a Jay Cutler black prism that I saw posted everywhere? Because it went off. I'm gonna get the number wrong. It was like $12,000 or something.

Yes. Written in a color card. And and it's it is that kind of thing where and this is part of the reason why I'm never gonna say there's too much data because I think the data means different things to different people.

If you're a person who flips singles for a living, you own a car shop or you're dealing at shows and you're dealing in all the million omnichannel environments we have available today, I absolutely understand that.

But, like, if we really wanted the data to truly mean something, we'd almost have to, like, achieve the impossible where it was like, okay.

Here's a list of every comp. This one was a PC buy. This was PC. This was complete a set. This one was bought by a card shop owner. This was bought by a singles dealer at big shows. And then and then you could go and go, okay.

The guys who are buying the flip, what are they paying? Okay. The guys who are buying and maybe reaching because they have to own it, what are they paying? But none of us know that stuff. Right?

And so all we can really do is just look at all these numbers, and it kinda give you provide a range, and you have to assume in your mind when I see a range in this kind of data, I'm gonna assume at the top end was somebody super high on a player or on a card that has a reason they think it'll keep going up or it was a PC buy.

And on the bottom end was somebody who, you know, it it changed hands in a private sale or it was, you know, bought in an option by a dealer who thinks they can flip it for more.

And that's the way I kind of define, like, the the brackets on the on the comp range, and then I just have to decide when I go to buy, where am I in this?

And I look at the bottom end as, okay. Maybe there's some margin meat left on the bone there. In the top, there's probably not, or I want the card bad enough.

I'm okay with that. But, again, all these emotional and psychological and just immediate instant gratification kind of desires we have can cause that fluctuation, which makes the data always be colored a little bit. That's so good.

Do do you think that the if efficiency I I I might have an inclination on which way you go go with this. But do you think the efficiency we're seeing leads to better markets, or do you think it kinda hinders the growth of the market?

Better. Yeah. I I I'm again, I'm never gonna be against efficiency. I think there are so many, new people coming into the hobby. I mean, we know there's a lot of money in the hobby.

I and I I don't know how the 10 year olds walking around the national have the stacks of cash they do, but they do, all the way up to guys who have, you know, 7 and 8 figure collections who just keep who just love the hobby and stay in it.

But, there are people who've been in it forever, and we've both been in this hobby a long time, but there are new people.

The data helps both. If you're new, you need some guidance to put some guardrails around knowing what you should be spending on things and knowing what things are worth.

You need to be able to go your LCS when you're first kinda getting back into the hobby. Maybe you've been away from it for years, open a box, and take your hits and go find out what they're worth.

You know, for me, when I was a kid, a lot of that was I don't really want these. I sell them back to the shop owner at 50% and buy some other pack I want.

Like, that was just kind of the experience. So, I think it is healthy that we can know what our collection is worth at all times. We can be armed with that when we go to decide to sell.

I do and and I think you might have made a note of this at one point when we talked or as we were prepping for the show, but it does make the song and dance of negotiating single sales sometimes feel almost scripted because it's like, okay.

A card is worth $4,000. I'm gonna walk up to you and ask you for 5. You know you're gonna only offer me three, and we're just gonna work our way there until somebody's happy.

So, but but you still see that. I mean, look at content. Look at Instagram and TikTok and everywhere these videos are posted. There's still people all day long doing that.

And if it's the the psychological thing comes out again. You'll hear the the person selling to a dealer saying, you know, I just I I'm buying this huge PC card for myself, so I really wanna get out of these.

What can you do for me? And they might be willing to sell at 70 or 80% because they just wanna get the cash put towards something else.

Then you see somebody else who's gonna say, hey. Well, I'm into it for 800, so I can't go below that. And that's clearly someone who's very sensitive to their margins and profit and loss on each card.

And so while the data is clearly available to both of them and factoring into those negotiations, you can hear just if you listen to the the way cards are trading hands, how much all those other things and the reasons and motivations and psychology still matters, every time a deal is made.

I've it's I feel like the last few, conversations I've had have went back to those sorts of pieces of content that we see on Instagram. And they're they're good for a lot of different reasons.

They stop, and I watch them, and it's because the variety of factors that you just described. But, yeah, I thought that was that was a topic that I wanted to kinda dig into and explore.

And I felt like, efficient markets obviously are are good, and we want those. But, also, like, I also maybe as we close this out, get your comment on this.

I feel like you can't just spend all day, like, focusing in on comps or last sales because you're missing all of the opportunities of big sales and seeing things that people aren't seeing. And this is how I feel as a collector, Tory.

It's like, I'm if it's a card I really want that's rare and scarce that I think has a long term impact, I'm I'm happy to, spend more than the last sale of the card, because my plan is to maybe hold on to it longer than next week or next month.

Yeah. No. For sure.

If there's a card that I want because I have long term aspirations for depreciating in value or I want because I want it for my collection, there still needs to be some, I don't know, like, collecting purist nature in us that just says it's okay to spend what I'm comfortable spending and to go back to the old, like, something's worth what you're willing to pay for it, that line can still hold true in the hobby.

And at the same time, comps aren't everything because comps are today and before today. And as we've talked about a 100 times, the way the market works is what happens today forward drives the value of the items.

If I told you that you could go back to, I don't know, March, April, and you could buy a bunch of Daniel Jones, if you walked around and told everybody, well, I'm only gonna pay the comp of $8 for a base PSA 10 prism rookie, by the data, you'd be doing the smart thing.

You'd be saying the data tells me this, so I have to stand by it.

But if you had an insight on the way this his career was gonna go and the way he was gonna fit with the Colts and he was gonna start, if you knew all this, any of you don't know it, but it's just what your expectation for the player is, you have every right to go above that.

And if you would have paid 40% above comps all spring and summer, you'd have quite a lot of money right now. So, you know, while the data matters a ton, the data is today.

The data is not the future, and you you have to keep that in mind when you're buying. Shout out Daniel Jones. Shout out Sam Darnell. Shout out Baker Mayfield. All these guys, the hobby left.

Took them out the pasture. I think, like, a couple weeks from now, we're gonna look at, like, the MVP odds for this 20, you know, twenty five NFL season and be like, are we, like, in a twilight zone episode?

Like, what is going on here? Like, Daniel Jones and Baker Mayfield up there. And and, like, Mahomes is still up there.

I feel like because somebody's like, we have to anchor to a reality that we believe in still. So we have to say Mahomes is that valuable. And I'm not saying he's not, but, like, yeah, it's it's a weird year.

I saw a post, and I this might might I'm glad I'm mentioning this so I don't forget this, but New York Jets cards or something, an Instagram account, just took a casual photo and was holding the black finite of not only Daniel Jones' prism rookie, but also Sam Darnold.

And I'm like, that is what diamond hands are right there. Yep.

Yeah. A 100%. That's so cool. And, yeah, you see stuff like that all the time, and it's like, you know, we've had guys sending us forever who all of a sudden their packages started showing up, and it was like six Jones, like, and TRPAs.

And I'm, like, asked one of them, like, where are these bags? Like, cool. They got down so low.

I didn't care to sell them, so I just threw them in a what if box. And, you know, sometimes those what if boxes, they, they turn into lottery tickets for you. Shout out what if boxes. I need to create one of those for myself.

Before I let you get out of here, this has been a fun episode. Maybe, like, what's one thing that you're thinking about that's kinda on your mind, that maybe isn't front and center and maybe other people aren't?

Just it can be any business related, hobby related, any way you wanna take it. Yeah. Yeah. Man, that's a that's a broad one.

But, no. I I think just the the technology and the hobby is one thing we're thinking a lot about, and you kinda we're kinda scraping the surface of that with this conversation about data and comps and things like that.

But, just very curious to see what we're gonna see in the next, you know, six to twelve months.

And when I say technology and the hobby, I'm talking about a lot of things that we have seen the headlines. We've all seen them on social media and things like that, but just maybe haven't given enough thought to yet.

Like, how much is auditing and controlling repacks gonna become a thing, And how much are we gonna see the nature of what's sold in a live selling environment versus core auctions and, like, fixed price platforms go over time?

How are we gonna see the social media platforms of TikTok and Instagram and Facebook and all these things?

Are are they gonna adapt to facilitate even more live selling and more transactional type things? You know, what other apps are coming? Like, obviously, we did ours because we didn't get some necessary step.

Are we gonna see the same from other companies? We're seeing, you know, whatnot in eBay and all these companies, but just tons of funding and development resources and building out new tools and new features.

And so, more than anything else, I I can't tell you what it's all signaling or what it means is coming, but just very curious to see how does this progression of more tech and, more feature and all that stuff, how does that play out over the next year?

Because you know it's not gonna stop. It's just gonna be a matter of kind of where the goalposts move and what kind of new things we see introduced.

Enjoy this conversation. As always, make sure you check out DC Sports eighty seven and download that new app. Tory, looking forward to next time. Likewise. Thanks.