hello and welcome to the football card podcast this is it you made it it is friday and you're listening to the fastest growing podcast in the entire world that is centered on football cards and most importantly football cards i'm your host john aka pac nicholson and with me as always is brett mister stacking slabs himself brett how are you doing i'm well and i'm learning that you cannot only collect but you can spend a lot more money when football is not being played on the field than when it actually is and i'm feeling that right now i'm in a little bit of a negotiation battle on the ebay machine going back and forth and maybe we start here and i i'd love to get how you get how you process this when a card you want and desire is listed at a price that is well outside your range and you think it's just outside the range of the market based on your own studying and you decide though you know what i be because i i have to do this i'm gonna send an offer that is even though it's distant from the list is what i value the card at and so i'm in that phase right now that is like gave the offer it was countered just the he just moved a little bit off and then i said fine i'll counter again then just a little bit off then finally i gave my i gave my this this is this is where i'm in right now as we're recording this it is he has my final offer he has the for the first time a note yep letting him know this is why this is my final offer and we're sitting here at nine eighteen in the morning on a wednesday recording this and i'm waiting to see how he's going to play this game and what the response is because i feel like it's a very fair offer so i guess you know what would be fun because people are like what's the card well you wanna talk about what the card is yeah let's go because by the time this goes live it'll i feel like this this this this show will be over but so it's the tyler warren gold vinyl i knew it yep on on ebay and i'm going to pull up my this is a great this is how i'm doing though john this is this is what doing this let's get into this so the card was listed for i believe it was originally listed for four k and then it maybe got moved down to thirty five hundred mhmm so i sent a offer of sixteen hundred it was just like so here's your sixteen hundred got countered he moved off a couple hundred bucks then i went to eighteen hundred and then the last offer i sent him which is this is the final offer is two thousand and one dollar and i told him look at the colson loveland sale which is two thousand dollars essentially i go i will give you one more dollar than that and i i'm telling myself right now that this this is way above what i wanna spend although i love tyler warren and these these gold vinyl out of twenty twenty five man these these is this might be the card out of the product i mean these these things are beautiful like the way they're presented and i'm just like when am i else what else am i gonna see this card again like who knows they're flip big flip inc is grabbing them they're stashing them for the season they're gonna be in showcases probably for five k at the national so yeah i'm in the holding pattern we'll see i i don't feel good about it which is maybe i should feel good because i don't get the card and i'm just not paying more than i want but that's where i'm currently at right now final note on this the black finite sold for seventy five hundred dollars dude i didn't even see it like i think it got listed and got smashed i didn't even see it but i would have been probably a player in that card if i would have seen it and had the thought and so now i'm like wrestling with well that's sold for seventy five hundred dollars like this two thousand dollars just seems like a lot for the gold vinyl but mhmm then again like i'm building this collection and i don't really care what the market says or what prices are i just i just i just want the card couple things the finite seven k not seventy five okay good direction even closer to to home i love that i'm looking at the tyler warren gold vinyl listing and i can see one active offer and i love know i love knowing what that what is going on beneath the surface there i wish i could like click into that and see everything i'm glad you brought up adding a note or a message i love that as a negotiation tactic like sometimes i lead with it but sometimes you have to bring that out when it's gone back and forth two or three times like okay buddy here's my final here's my max and here's why i don't it's tough right now and i know you think like when will i ever see this again but i feel like this happened to me with roman dunze i got his gold vinyl shortly after release paid up for it because i had the same thoughts and again that card is there's two of them available on ebay right now i'm not saying the exact same thing will happen to tyler warren but i don't know five copies out of a brand new product i do think the odds are another will hit you know eventually so i think i think but where i'm at right now it's like i and this is an interesting place to be when you're trying to acquire a card like i as a collector based on what i'm collecting and building i am one hundred percent okay with him accepting that offer two thousand and one dollars and that being the highest sale of that card ever like i i don't care i i i but but it reaches a point where it's like it gets too outside that like my mentality is telling me dude this isn't like a one of one like don't like you're stretching yourself so like all of us like we all have limits but also like god man i've looked at the card so many times since it's been available and even the interesting part about this is is like i don't know if it's still active but is nebula's out there too and it i just i know the nebula is the one of one and this and that but like i've only got a couple nebulas in my collection and it's just it's not as cohesive as that gold vinyl and so like i'm i'm i'm i'm willing to put a premium on the gold vinyl especially because how these cards look i mean they look we've talked about it but they they they look great in terms of like years of gold vinyl so i don't know we'll we'll see but i i want the card i just don't know how the story ends right now well if it makes you feel better i'm looking up the highest tyler warren sales to date and the finite is the highest of all time and then you have three straight horizontal gold downtowns coming in i looked at this yeah coming in at fifty four hundred dollars forty three hundred dollars and four thousand dollars three sales over the past four months so that's insane something out of ten a horizontal insert being double you know what you're offering on a true base parallel yeah i hope i hope you get it i mean he should take the offer at two come on man like right just just take the offer have you exhausted all routes have you searched to see if they're on instagram are they fully just a ebay that blows my mind too by the way that people on ebay don't also have a card instagram and yes like what are you doing the we can move on but the notes thing you mentioned i've had this conversation about notes strategy and there are people that like pour their heart out in the first offer on the note and to me like my mindset on this and this is no there's no right or there's no wrong but i'm not trying to lose my leverage off the first offer i'm not trying to expose myself that i'm a colts collector and i spent tens of thousands of dollars building my colts prism collection like i'm not trying to let this person know like there's no no no there there's a transactional side of the hobby which is most of the hobby and i talk a lot about like i hate the transactional side but then there's moments in this transactional hobby that you have to like take advantage of like the transactional nature and a great marketplace like ebay provides that and it's like i i don't wanna let you know who i am until i have to tell you you know no the note is only to share information that helps within the negotiation of the price you do not reveal that you're a sicko until the deal's complete and then you're like thank you this card is gonna be an amazing piece into this collection maybe even send them a pic but like that doesn't know if you lead with that they've got you by the balls they're gonna do whatever they want like you can't you can't give it up right away you gotta bring the note in later do you think it's helpful because i don't i actually think this is annoying when someone's trying to get a card from me when somebody just like maps out their justification for their price offer based on comps and stuff i'm just like dude i'd for me i'm like i'm not gonna read this i don't care like right because obviously my mentality is like it's all positioning it's like you're using this to position like if i'm selling a card or you're coming at me for an to get a card out of my collection like i i have my own standard and i don't care if you like it i don't need your like justification that when i when there's like paragraphs about like why i should price it i don't give a shit it's my card and this is why this is what a pricing it is that's hilarious i'm in the middle of a negotiation right now via instagram where the guy is interested in a card partial trade cash offer like i proposed that i was like would you be open to partial trade i have this card person's interested in the card asked what the proposal would be and i started you know typing and i realized i'd gotten to two paragraphs plus on like why why and i'm like no no no no and so i'd clean it wiped it clean and just said this is the offer like this card plus this this dollar amount but then he responded with i noticed there's a sale of x y z and has a question so i'm like okay now he's bringing some evidence to the trial you know he's bringing in some metrics here and so yeah it the the dance began i respond with a paragraph he responds with two paragraphs i respond with two paragraphs and and we're still still ongoing we're close i think but yeah it's it's just funny the the amount like yeah just make the offer and then i guess if let it unfold there but yeah if someone you can't right off the bat come out with like here's all the reasons that this card is worth this much because each party is gonna see it their own way and they're gonna have we all have our own ways to twist our value the cards we own our values to be higher and the cards we're trying to get their values to be lower and we can we can do that dan all day but final note on this obviously we've talked about kyle king king of the cards and obviously his content is prolific in this space and it's all deal negotiation and he's the you know he's the goat at it like he he's just that's what his brand is and he i mean i think he's he's he's excellent at it there's then there's all of these other people that are trying to do what he's done which is i encourage everyone to create content in this space but i will say my preference because the algorithms love this content and feed it to me all the time the the part about this content and i i i don't and i'm saying like kyle like doesn't lean too heavily into this it's a little bit of it but i'll like i'll like stumble across someone like doing this content at a card show and the whole content is just literally them holding their phones and like reading and push pointing the last comps for other people and it just no no well i see i see this sale no no no i see that and i'm just like this content sucks like this is too much like so i don't know i my when we get into this mode like especially on the content side i really appreciate the individual wanting the card and you can see it and there maybe is a little data as a part of it but like at the end of the day it's about like the stories and this and that so that as we're talking through this is triggered and maybe it's because like i have an endless loop of these card show deal negotiations going on repeat in my brain but yeah it's led us to this kickoff i guess of this show and we've already we're already thirteen minutes in man i'm feeling warmed up yeah we're rocking episode thirty five off to a great start thirty five who would have thought we'd make it to episode thirty five of the football card podcast and we're out of football too so we are we're back into the doldrums where we started this thirty five weeks ago thirty five straight weeks too shout out us thirty five weeks in a row perfect attendance delivering for the loyal listeners of the football card pod but none of it is possible without our wonderful sponsors cardladder the only ones the only one shout out cardladder the official data provider of the football card podcast and the broader stacking slabs network we i saw cardladder in the wild via well i didn't see him in the wild but they were in the wild via the my instagram being at the west coast card show and you know it's when the cardlider people are out and about they are like magnets everyone wants to hang out and i saw some booth pics which is great it brought me back to the national and by the way the national is just around the corner i know it's february but i'm already thinking about it i i'm trying to think what should stacking slabs do this year at the national so i'm excited about that premise but shout out card ladder for for kicking ass yeah football card pod live at the national now we're talking a rip ripping something at the national got something barry sanders we've talked about barry sanders enough on here and we're talking about him again today you think we can get a barry sanders exclusive let's let's do it let's how sick would that be if if we landed a barry sanders or just like we got patrick mahomes as an interview on the football card pod he says no to all other press but says yes to the football card pod i would here's how the interview goes it's us with card ladder up yeah barry sanders just looking at the screen and not saying hey barry did you did you did you see the sale of your gym masters yeah and that's like the question barry did you know your av on pro football reference is actually only one fifty two like what what happened to this year why were you why were you lacking did you know fred taylor's numbers are comparable to yours they're not but yeah that would we'll figure something out for the national we will need to we will offline and figure out something fun maybe with our friends at cardladder who knows and i know like shout out cardladder the national last year there like you said people gravitate towards their setup because they just make a very comfortable setup at a cart show i mean that setup last year with the with the bar stools and the chargers like i coulda hung out there all weekend which i kinda did so i hope if they're in the design phase of this year's plans christina shout out christina do that run that back make it make car ladder the living room of the national where we could go talk cards trade cards do all the good stuff do some content eat some candy yeah yeah more candy more snacks alright episode thirty five we're about to get into some numbers that are it's about again not the doldrums i'm actually very excited to get into the these numbers that i can't think of people off the top of my head and we're gonna find some probably a lot of vintage football card talk and just old old dudes like hall of famers for thirty five bill dudley oh man i so alright so little peek behind the curtain into the process i go to the hall of fame website and they sort it by number and i just copy paste the row and for thirty five they do just a lot of last names or first initials like they didn't do full names so this is my bad on my part for not fully vetting this but bill dudley h johnson aneas williams campbell and keesling so got some got some names to play with here but one that i wanted to shout out first is bill dudley i saw the name bill dudley and i thought yeah that guy served an war like he definitely is a vintage guy that did some things so i'm looking at his wikipedia bill dudley along with deion sanders are the only players in nfl history to score touchdowns in six different ways rushing receiving punt return kick return interception return and fumble return wow so bill dudley gadget guy and sure enough his rookie season is nineteen forty two was drafted with the first overall pick led the league in rushing was named to an all pro team then he gets drafted goes off to war shout out bill dudley protecting and serving also getting drafted would suck like thank you to our troops who are out there doing everything but like that was a choice getting drafted especially after you're the first overall pick and you're balling out for the steelers and you're like now i gotta gotta go to war i don't wanna go to war goes to war serves for a couple years and during that he joins the army football team helps the team go twelve and o and wins mvp then he gets shipped off to the pacific to fly a couple supply missions and then he goes to hawaii and he's out there playing for the team a little more then he comes back to the nfl and when he returns to the nfl he has a season where he led the league in let me make sure i'm getting it right he led the t led the league in rushing interceptions and punt returns and there's something else because he he's the only player in nfl history to lead in four unique stats so leading rusher leading interceptions and punt returns he's the original slash so shout out bill dudley all time gadget player wow first of all you said something there that needs to be recognized shout out to all the troops out there especially the troops who are listening to the football card podcast i know it's a very polarizing time in in the world and especially our country but we got nothing but time and love for the troops shout out to you all and i as you're talking about bill dudley dude i just kept had this image in my head and how funny would this be how funny would it be if a young college darren sprolls was like in his dorm room and he's just got like the vcr remote and he's just watching bill dudley tape that's like his inspiration for being so versatile in the nfl i just find that awfully funny as i'm thinking about it yeah young darren sprolls with bill dudley posters on his wall i'm just like man this guy well his nickname was bullet though which is pretty sick he's got some i was like he's gotta be in forty eight leaf and then sure enough he's in forty eight leaf and fifty one bowman he's got some cool looking vintage cards out there but yeah definitely i love just reading if you if you can't tell by episode thirty five i love wikipedia pro football reference crossover so shout out bill dudley i gotta i gotta just i i'm doing this in real time i gotta see this bill dudley leaf card and we gotta show the patreon members here we go pull it it says bill dudley on the card wow this thing sold in twenty sixteen psa eight for thirty six hundred dollars it is a pop seventeen you've got one eight five and one nine of bullet bill man dude vintage vintage cards are so sick and spare this is why i love them i love it when i know like i have the context now i know bill i feel like i'm i know bullet bill dudley just way more than before and context is everything now when i see this card at the national and the showcase i'm just i might take a you know that video of ken golden like sitting down with that vintage baseball collector who has like all the the gems he's got marshall fogle yeah that guy yeah he that guy by the way he loves the diamondbacks and he he loves his vintage baseball cards but it like ken golden's he sees the psa eight hones wagner t two zero six and he's like i've never done this before but i i'm gonna stop this interview and take a selfie with it like that's me seeing the the psa nine bullet dudley at the national like show me that card i can take a selfie with it yeah any bullet bill dudley cards out there send them to the tag the football card pod we will reshare instantly and one other thirty five i have to shout out anthony thomas the a train bears running back offensive rookie of the year in two thousand one i thought he was the next coming of walter payton thirty five coming after walter payton thirty four had high hopes for a train they didn't pan out but still just a favorite player from that two thousand one bears team that made it to the playoffs and had that magical run during the regular season so shout out anthony thomas my thirty five and you're right we have moved on to the era where it just doesn't come right to your mind and when i looked at the sheet i i think if you were to ask me a train what is number i think i would have nailed that for whatever reason maybe it was just seeing his cards or whatever but i didn't have one in my brain and so i definitely the easiest decision for me was to pick aeneas williams and i gotta tell you i had a blast going down the aeneas williams not only card but you know career research going into this so first of all aeneas williams played for the cardinals from nineteen ninety one to two thousand now what's fun about this is he didn't start with the arizona cardinals he started with the phoenix cardinals and when i saw that i was like man i haven't thought about that in forever and i just remember being like at school and we had like a put in a quarter and get a pencil and they had the old teams and i remember the cardinal it was a phoenix cardinals pencil and i just that like triggered in my brain and then so i got down this like research it's like well why the hell did they move to the arizona cardinals and come to find out the they were you know they the cardinals came from saint louis so which that's another interesting nugget where you had at one point you had the saint louis cardinals on the the baseball diamond and then you had the saint louis cardinals the football team so they were looking for expansion they were looking to regionalize the fan base in the state of arizona so they decided to move their name to the arizona cardinals and so like the in which was very controversial at the time because it was a contradiction of the model of how teams names were presented and i so this led me to looking at the current state of our league and looking at okay well how many teams exist in the nfl structure today that are not named by the city but named by the the the state and i will say this when i think about new york jets or new york giants to me that's the city like i i think about it's not like those aren't the state of new york those are even though they're in new jersey which adds a whole another layer of complexity to this this they're the new york they're not included in this list but you have obviously the arizona cardinals you have the minnesota vikings you have the tennessee titans which tennessee titans it's the only state named team in the afc and then i included them although it's this one's maybe on the board but the carolina panthers right so it's i think they're they're they're in north carolina they're representing the carolinas so i include those but that that's an interesting nugget through the aeneas williams research but just a little bit about aeneas williams also gotta shout out he was in a super bowl with the rams which there again he goes from saint louis cardinals he would did was not a part of that but then this this the phoenix cardinals to arizona to back to saint louis where so he's kinda he's kinda done the whole rodeo here but he was on the super bowl team two thousand one to two thousand four aneas williams spectacular career hall of famer three time first team all pro two time second team in two thousand three only the second tie in two thousand three so at the end of this career hall of fame career it was only his second time playing in the playoffs so shout out to nias for gritting it out through all those shitty teams the second time he had two picks and recovered a fumble against the packers in the divisional round and then in the nfc championship he had a game clinching pick against the eagles and donovan mcnabb then to go on to the super bowl so no one ever talks about aeneas williams but aeneas williams ruled and upon research looking at his most expensive card nineteen ninety eight metal universe aeneas williams out of fifty psa eight this card in two thousand three sold for two k so this is the unbelievable part about doing a podcast like this you've got a hall of famer aneas williams who i get excited researching and then you go look in two thousand dollars is his most expensive card so i don't know man if you wanna go find opportunities just go study the football card podcast dave we're sharing plenty of plenty of gold in these episodes but shout out aeneas williams number thirty five oh yeah i remember playing with him mad in two thousand one back i think i've talked about this when my first couple times after i owned the game i didn't know how to change teams so i only played with the rams and titans and he was on the rams and so i was like alright i know this guy playing ballhawk with him back there something that you mentioned that i just could not get off of was the wooden nba pencils from like my elementary school days the like quarter machines so i searched on ebay nineties wooden nba pencils and when i tell you like cards gives you a nostalgia hit seeing some of these listings like hit on a different level it truly felt like the food critic in ratatouille when i just saw some of these listings and i'm buying one of these i don't know which one yet but there's some that even are coming in the it's just like a they're like plastic pencil box full of nineties wooden nba pencils and i'm gonna buy one of these in somewhat i know somewhere someone never let their mom or significant other throw them out they're like no someone's gonna want these i'm gonna put them on ebay for nine ninety nine and eventually someone will be proven right when i purchase one of these because what a vivid memory that was that might have been one of the first things i ever collected was like just the vending machines with and mechanical pencils then there like our intermediate school had mechanical nba pencils so wow very glad played as we're talking about this more it reminded me of a game we used to play with these in school and to be young and to have these ideas and we'd play we'd have all the football you know you'd have like doubles and triples of teams and we'd play like you're a foot there was a football game one team would have the oilers and know somebody else would have you know the bears and they'd be going to head to head and how you played this football game it wasn't the the objective was the least amount of strikes is the winner or you try to you try to do it in the least amount of strikes but what you did was you you rip off the the eraser and you clamp down on the metal so you're you have like a sharp and what you're doing yeah wedge you're the other person's holding the pencil out and you're just trying to make the cuts and eventually there's the snapping of the pencil and there's a winner but the whole objective was to see like how and how many few and you couldn't like you know rip it back you had to like we had some sort of qualifying rules yeah yeah but yeah that man i wanna i wanna play that right now yeah we're talking about what to do at the national we're doing a pencil smacking tournament pre pogs yeah bring your best that's awesome shout out aneas williams shout out number thirty fives and shout out episode thirty five should we get into our our defenses front let's go formation yes here we go alright question one first down by now everyone is well aware of the sixteen and a half million dollar sale of the logan paul slash pikachu pokemon illustrator card but of course we're a football card podcast so it just got me thinking is there a football card that could ever sell for sixteen and a half million dollars and if so what is it when i saw this on the dock instantly i thought man this is a great thought exercise and as a football card advocate my my what i wanted to immediately say is of course there is and this is what it would be but that's not i felt like that was irresponsible by just like trying to do that so i like thought within and i tried to look at the current situation and come up with kind of my thoughts and mentality but so i thought it was first it was it's really important to understand the the the infrastructure at play with that sale i think it's also very important to understand the item and the subject and also understand that the hobby is very segmented and we talk about the hobby as one market as a whole but the it's it's so many different markets on top of so many different markets so when i was looking at this card and educating this card and a part of doing content like this you i i i have to force myself to like understand these different things even if i don't have interest but because illustrator is never commercially released it was awarded not pulled there's the global element to this card of you know the highest grossing franchise of all time and then maybe the most important thing which should be noted is that we had a celebrity who not only owned this card but was involved in the promotion of this card and logan not only is a promoter but he's a master marketer so you've gotta understand all of these elements so and then then selling it through golden is like pouring gasoline on all of this because what we're seeing here in this instance is a one of a kind scenario where we get to watch on our television this this the brokering of this take place all the way through the life cycle and the promotion all the way through the sale and then we know where it's at now like that that transparency in this sale is very unique but we'll create a case study for how cards like this get sold over the long haul so that's my me absorbing what i just saw for the last however many days two months three months whatever it is now back to football cards do football card will a football card sell for this much i don't know but i think it would require a continued globalization of the game of football which obviously is the intention of the commissioner and the nfl as a whole they want more international games i think that needs to intensify i think it will have to be a one of one i think it also would have i think it's not gonna happen anytime soon we need a card with mystique with mythology in a way and as i consider this and of course i'm going to lean this way but to me the card that i thought of out of the gates was the nonrookie card but the twenty twelve tom brady black finite from prism now i think this only happens if in ten years we find out that this card exists like we need some time still we need the we need the the stuff to keep cooking around us but i think if everything lines up where we keep talking about this card much like we talk about the curry superfractor rookie and then it presents itself and then you've got an owner or maybe the person that owned it the whole time and then they go through the same rigmarole of marketing channels auction houses the nfl is there's a team in london all this shit is happening then i can see a sixteen point five million dollar sale but that's that's kinda my interpretation of your question and there's a lot of elements at play oh yeah i think the hard thing with nfl or with football cards is like when you look at historically what have sold the highest you know the onus wagner and mantle like there is no shout out and shout out vintage football there isn't a football equivalent there there is not like the call it ultra vintage like early nineteen hundreds football card i mean i'm sure there are but nothing with the renown of like wagner or just how collectible baseball was then and to your point then has like a hundred years of mystique added onto it but and then you get to the fifties and you have mantle and again like there's no football in the fifties wasn't baseball in the fifties baseball in the fifties was everything and that's part of why the mantle is what the mantle is so yeah it would have to and then even in the nineties you don't there's no jordan equivalent in football in the nineties there's no the biggest green pmg would be like barry is it barry sanders or jerry rice you know it's like one of those guys and it got me thinking what is currently the highest selling football card of all time i believe it's the mahomes rpa that sold for four point three million mhmm i could be wrong was just i did i was searching just like notable players their highest card ever brady had a three point eight million dollar sale of his championship ticket auto but if that mahomes sold again today i don't even know if it hits four point three million again like i don't think so so and his black finite rookie i don't think that comes close to four i just i don't know how i think the ownership would would would tell you otherwise oh yeah he'll say it's twenty mil but yeah i i just don't know like like to your point though it's gonna take twenty years of mythology around like maybe something like yeah twenty twelve brady finite or some other brady i think it the it brady's the best chance at it it'd have to be some sort of insane brady card and or like twenty years from now maybe you know prospect cards are selling for sixteen million and this pikachu is on a hundred million dollar card who knows but i i don't know i think football's gonna have a harder time ever reaching that level sixty million dollars is so much money yep so much damn money i i think what's important too with everything you said in brady and thinking about the subject brady is obviously the easiest one to to consider but brady is not michael jordan and i say i i say that because i'm not taking away from brady's accomplishments like and what he did like he's incredible like and his card should be the most expensive but michael jordan pulls this like global appeal and even in the united states of america like it is very rare to hear someone be like oh i wasn't amazed by michael jordan or like i i i wasn't i didn't get caught up in jordan where it that's not like that with brady because brady was more polarizing people are like you know the pats are cheating like i hate belichick like brady's just part of this like there's there's a lot of like and i don't think that like i have as i've evolved because in being a colts fan and then you it was you you just had to cheer against brady you had to hate him like i've matured to the level where i can appreciate tom brady for what he is and his accomplishments and his cards and all this but like that's me being getting to this point it's just like there are people out there collectors that are people are just gonna not like tom brady so i think that's another struggle where it's like you you got a player that like not not everyone's buying tom brady cards like some people just don't like tom brady and i just don't find that the same in other sports with other players like like jordan or you know babe ruth players like that it just feels like more have more mass appeal yeah and i think part of it is probably more time away from it like the further you get away from these players playing the more they become just like myths and just like you know like i think brady could maybe get there but yeah it doesn't feel the same as jordan and i don't know if he ever will just like i have an interesting one for you on this topic is tom brady hurting his card market by by being so everywhere all of the time based on what you just said i don't think he's hurting it would it be better if tom brady was not on is not a part of the raiders was not on tv calling games and did not own a card store and just kind of went off and like you never heard from him do you think that would be better for his cards or is the in your face like fanatics promotion tom brady stores like do do you think that's better for his cards i do kinda think it is think it's i think it's keeping him in the zeitgeist of these younger collectors and like the more he's talked about he's opening these stores and these kids are coming to a tom brady store it's i'm not saying it's the same but maybe it's similar to like jordan shoes where it's like well jordan retired but he still was gotcha present in the ecosystem which is maybe adding to the legend i do like thinking of if he had just like went full hermit and you didn't hear from brady i would have liked that better but then is it like these new kids aren't even thinking about him because he's not at all you know what i mean like is this current press run from brady or this current whatever public run from brady endearing him to a new generation of fans who didn't watch him play but they're like learning about the legend because he's everywhere all the time yeah i don't know we know more about brady post retirement than we ever did in his year oh football yeah absolutely and yeah that's there there's a lot of interesting yeah parallels there but yeah the overall it just got me thinking like i like thinking about it this way if every football card in existence like stuff we've never even seen before but just every card in existence went up for auction right now what would sell the highest everyone in existence every football card is up for auction right now like any card you could ever imagine that every twenty twelve black friday night hits the market every national treasures whatever every psa ten vintage card hits market like what wins what sells the highest i think it would be in my brain i think it would be like high the highest grade vintage card of like you know like a a jim thorpe or something like that or like the do i can't get off like i can't get off the twenty twelve tom brady like like same same i to me that is kind of the one like even i was looking up like a walter payton psa ten is don't even know if that's six figures jim thorpe a psa nine was a hundred and thirty eight thousand in twenty twenty car ladder value is at a million wow there just isn't that football like again there's not like the vintage football card that people like mantle there's three mantle fifty twos in a psa ten you know there's like that history behind it i feel like there's not a football equivalent in that era so it would have to be one of these like one of ones from yeah i don't i don't i don't know i think twenty twelve brady finite does have a chance to be the high like could win that race or maybe the mahomes rpa but yeah i don't know everyone put your list your cards let's do it let's see let's let's let's put it into motion are you saying list your cards like you document and share or are you saying like go list your cards sell them so we can actually like organize this experiment yeah it's like we all have to agree everyone in the collector's room sell all your cards is selling their cards at the same time then everyone's has cash i don't know dude we'd be we'd be eating ramen noodles at stacking slabs hq for the rest of twenty twenty six if if this actually happened alright good first down that was good okay let's let's hit these other ones second down what's the toughest what's the toughest thing you're going through right now as a football card collector i like this for me i put the lack of consolidation ammo just as i become more focused in collecting i don't have the amount of random cards that i used to have that when a card i really wanted popped up i could like i feel like i could always easily go to my case of cards and find ten cards to group together and sell so it got me thinking do i need to be experimenting more do i need to be out there buying more random shit like i used to when i was getting the hobby am i too focused now like i know you talk about shrinking the hobby c but maybe maybe it's time for some uncharted waters like maybe i need to go out like what's out there like what am i what am i doing because this card i was talking about negotiating for like there's also a dollar amount that i could buy the card for which is reasonable but i'm like i don't have stuff that i wanna sell for that because as i've again become more focused and again this is another problem as this current bears team continues to captivate me and as i continue to fall in love with this current bears team that's what i wanna buy but then it's also the battle of that could all go away next year next year could suck and all these cards i'm buying aren't worth it but like i i don't know like the tug the the battle of because when we're spending a lot of money on cards i like to think of it as something that is gonna hold its value or that isn't gonna just go to nothing mhmm but when you are buying current modern players that risk is higher than when i'm buying priest home stuff so the thought of like selling stuff that i perceive as like safe for then cards of players that are in year two or three doesn't make sense logically or like you know a financial adviser would advise against that but the sicko passionate fan is like go get these caleb williams cards go get these guys like so that that's kinda i'd say what i'm struggling or not struggling with but that's just the the battle that's waging right now what about you i wanna just comment and this will be i can explain probably mine through commentary on what you just said i'll say a few things i think first you are in a moment you are in a you just had a moment where you experienced i don't wanna speak for you but maybe one of the more fun stretches of a bears fan that you've ever had in your life and when you go through these moments which you never know when another one is gonna come again i feel like that's the perfect time to capitalize on like the cards and the passion and doing that altogether and that's like without like thinking about the financial side of it so like i just encourage anyone like don't doubt yourself like going through that i i have to like tell myself that now you said no consolidation ammo which is i can relate with this big time dude i feel this right now especially feel like i'm scraping at the barrel when i'm trying to justify making purchases i think when i do have to buy something like the warren card for instance like if that i just checked i no accepted offer yet but if if that card lands in my collection obviously like that's not a card i'm looking to sell but i justify the purchase of it by saying like well if down the road the black finite became available maybe then i would take this money or take this plus the money that would cost to then help me justify that purchase so that's kinda how how i think about it but i also that's why i think it's also fun to like if you see a cool like the rod woodson card i talked about last week like the card is cool to me it doesn't align really with much of my collection but it was i saw value there that that and that's a process of maybe getting the consolidation ammo going yep but yeah i've i i i'm in your spot too where any cards that i have to get rid of right now in my collection it's it's going to be painful it's just it's just part of it so yeah i i related with a lot of what you say it's this balance of like i'm buying this card because it i wanted to go up in value and then i can sell it to help me move into stuff that i really want but i don't have any of that stuff right now and what i have is my core so it's like that navigating which is complicated but if it were easy i don't think it would be as interesting to collect what we do for sure counterpoint though if you get this worn gold vinyl and next season the finite becomes available you wanna pair those cards together you don't wanna sell the gold vinyl to get the finite of of course you're you're that that you're not doing that i won't i won't do it you're right not going to way to call me out what are you doing you're not selling that card but i just i just talked about this though but like he and i shared i think i shared this somewhere this week but to get the reggie wayne black finite i had to give up my two thousand two finest peyton manning extractor and some people would be like you gave up it's like i the the black fine at reggie wayne is a way sweeter card than right peyton to me and then peep but it's like this debate well it's peyton it's reggie it's like well i don't get like and so like i think that's when you get into like the mode where you're able to like take other pieces within your collection and i i never thought i would reach that point but to me it just made sense so yeah we have to make hard decisions to get cool cards sometimes money money doesn't grow on trees for football cards right and that's where like it's i've never i've always struggled to sell bears cards like it's always because i i have several different collections like like twenty thirteen's like basketball collect running backs like i have a cool a bunch of cool laveon bell cards that like if it comes down to it like those things probably go before like my bear stuff mhmm but like i don't want it i really like those labien bell cards i really like my bijan cards but and and so then it's hard for me to be like to start eliminating those ancillary collections to go all in on bears because that that's just scary to me because like anytime i go all in on the bears i get hurt so there's like that there's the past trauma that i'm also dealing with of like you know i i have the next eight months to get very very excited and in the like i think that leads to just devastation historically it does so there's there's still a bit of that but at the same time it's been so much fun that i'm like let's keep it going let's just ride this wave and whatever happens happens it's sports cards who cares let's have fun we can close out on this but i what i'm learning about myself as a fan i used to be the most miserable loser ever would think everything was a failure but i am learning to celebrate those moments whether even if it's one game during a season that i was through the roof and i rode that wave for a couple weeks like those mo like it's it's moments like only one team's gonna win the super bowl so it's like you to keep your sanity like i saw for a shitty of a way our the cold season ended ended up someone like there was a list and they did like runs of the year and that the taylor run i guess from falcons was the run of the year and i hadn't seen it in a while because i distanced myself from that and i was like goddamn that was a good run and god i just wanna buy jonathan taylor cards and so i think that's a part of it too as i tell myself as i'm in this slump of a stretch like you're out of it i'm in this i'm in the i'm in it right now it's like give me to the playoffs it's like within those shitty seasons there's these moments that help encourage me to on why why i'm spending all of this money on these cards oh yeah i i just posted about it when i posted that my dj moore mosaic black one zero one with the kit like the overtime game winner caleb to dj is the single greatest bears play i've ever seen like just the the magnitude of like walk off against the packers playoff implication like everything and i'm like that's all i care about like i'll this season was a w just from based on everything that happened this year i i just all i want are cards to commemorate this season everything else can can go so yeah no i plan on celebrating this season and enjoying it it's all i've got like like i said i have anthony thomas cards because of a fluke two thousand one season where the bears got hot and made the playoffs on some lucky games like only got a handful of these seasons hopefully this is the start of something else but yeah that's all i got i wanna say this that we have a first tier on three and out and it's the first time that we have intercepted the pass oh the offense has the ball this segment is over because third down was gonna be something kind of we already talked about and we went heavy on the other one so intercept hey you pick pick six pick six let's go forward let's go yeah alright sales i wanna what's real quick nfl offseason combines next week there's a lot of piece of content right now is landing spots and you or you got franchise tag i i saw like espn put together a list like landing spots and they they had alec pierce to the titans and it's like who is not like doing any work here like who is who is not reading what like the colts are putting out about like not letting him hit the open market and so that there's there's a lot of lazy reporting out there but more or less like some names obviously we've got some news and implications especially in the on the card side with with tyreek and tyreek hill getting released from the dolphins which i think everyone understood that from a financial situation in his age i'd love to get your feedback on what you think tyrek happens i did as we record this i saw a note this morning and this is where my spidey senses have always been on tyrek that you know the chiefs of course are restructuring mahomes' contract which they've got i don't know forty three they got forty three mill opening up a lot of cap room did tyreek hill is going to the chiefs right oh that it sounds right that just makes sense it it it's going to they both need each other yeah but is tyreek does he still have it with mahomes i think he'll do just fine yeah i would it's how he thought about randy moss though you remember it's like before he went to the patriots it's like does moss still have it and he had his best seasons after that this is very true some that like i've noticed this or you're talking about just like yeah the alex pierce trade thing like what are these media pundits doing and like i already saw it where it was like like caleb williams' expectations for twenty twenty six are like what he needs to do and it's just all all of these different analysts on different networks they're it's always like the same talking points because like they don't have time to go into everything and so it's like you have the main media people have like two sound bites to say about people they'll be like needs to think completion percentage or like get the he's gotta hit the layups like it's like they will all say the same exact talking points but then like on the other end like i'm deep into bears twitter and it's like i can go way the other way into all the analytics about why he's the greatest ever and it's like the truth is somewhere somewhere in the middle of those but yeah the the big media outlets like they don't know what they're doing it's like someone has to write about the colts and they're like well just trade the best receiver to their division rival i don't know like people get mad they'll get clicks oh no doubt is there anyone you wanted to talk about just based on what you've seen well yeah because you put tyreek hill watch i put max crosby watch because there's just growing smoke of the bears trying to get max crosby i feel like probab and maybe that's because i'm so inundated with bears twitter i'm sure other teams think that they're getting him as well but williams every i think every team does right now caleb williams was just on crosby's podcast and people are just loving that they're the rapport there but all the smoke of him getting traded to the bears is for dj moore because dj moore isn't in a favorable contract situation or cap situation and the bears have rome adunze and luther burden so they do feel set at receiver i would hate to see dj go but i under i don't know i understand it's a business but either way gave me some of the greatest moments of the year i'd love to see him back but he got traded for max crosby that would be pretty sick i do think max crosby could help this bears team but but i don't know i'm also nervous about trading away too much for a defensive end that like i don't know look at the packers packers traded away everything for like micah parsons like we have to win now and he goes and he gets hurt like then yeah it's it's crazy you never know if you'll get back or not or if the team won't succeed so that's why you gotta just enjoy the moments when they happen so i i am very pro if you have an opportunity and i put him in this the top ten i put crosby in the top ten players my number the best in my opinion the best player in the nfl is miles garrett he's the bet like quarterback anything like miles garrett's my number one but then maybe and i'm also like very big on the defense but i think mac crosby makes my top ten list any way i cut it and so i think if you my mindset is just like if you have an opportunity to get a top ten guy like yeah you especially if you're in a situation like the the bears where you know you're you're pretty close last year i know obviously dj moore was a big contributor but yeah max crosby is the topic every max everybody wants some max he's so good man he's so good and then i i just googled max crosby just to like see what top news stories are and i've got no brainer max crosby seahawks trade what experts are saying about possible patriots trade for max crosby every month why 49ers nation is excited about this max crosby news it's like there's every team thinks that they're getting them so we'll see what happens alright yes let's talk about some sales alright let's hit these sales how about this we we've been talking pat tillman but why not talk about the twenty twenty donaris optic downtown pat tillman psa ten selling on ebay for sixteen thousand eight hundred dollars and the wild thing about this is it's a population one hundred and eight you got a pop one zero eight card selling for sixteen thousand eight hundred via best offer on ebay i mean if you it's a very patriotic card and you got the eagle and the american flag and we talked about supporting troops you got tillman and his fatigue and then obviously cardinals front and center it's a in terms of downtown cards this one's pretty catches your eye but there's a lot of copies of that for it to be selling for almost seventy thousand dollars yeah that that that i didn't see what you're like the one note i wrote down is there's a hundred and eight of those and that's just crazy to me the gold vinyl one of one of this sold for thirty thousand dollars back in march which that seems like a good buy if the one that there's a hundred and eight of is selling for sixteen thousand dollars so yeah i i don't know i guess there's when i was kinda talking about uncharted waters and buying other things or like starting new pcs again and when we were talking about bullet bill dudley it's like do i start a collection of these of veterans of vintage players who have gone off to war and it's like wait it's not only vintage guys we got pat tillman up in the mix so maybe there's maybe there's other clearly there's other people who are valuing that and collecting players like that so shout out pat tillman downtown sixteen thousand dollars we move over to jackson smith njigba twenty five prism choice nebula one of one with the offensive player of the year in the description which you just gotta love the positioning this sold via best offer for eighty five hundred dollars it's already at a card letter value of ten k so card ladder says goodbye the nebula is like well the nebula's well i know they're they're more basketball we got two years of them in this prism run like how do you think about the nebula's and is this a good buy not a good buy like how do you think about this i don't a i think it's an awesome card i've never owned a nebula i would like to i would buy one of these if it was of a player i collect or a reasonable price but reasonable price is subjective i guess like eighty five hundred for this seems very very high like i i don't know i just think of like cooper kupp was like offensive player of the year triple crown winner super bowl mvp his stuff is not like i mean he yeah he's still collectible there's value there but it's like i think it's just very easy for a skill guy to be the belle the ball and then suddenly like people don't care anymore like very fast there's very short attention spans in this like even saquon saquon's dude two thousand year a year ago it was like saquon was the shit and now i would i'm not looking at the research right now but i would wager that saquon stuff is down since his crack like winning super bowl m b or winning the offensive player of the year and then winning the super bowl yeah i just think it's harder for the skill guys unless you've really established that legacy but even then like i don't i don't know skill guys are tough eighty five hundred dollars is a lot of money yeah you you know you with a card like this in a fan base and collectors there's a ton of seahawks collectors you just hope that someone doesn't even get care there's like wow i get a a jsn one of one from prism the year we won the super bowl the year he was the offensive player of the year like and so like whatever happens after it doesn't matter and i i feel like most of those saquon cards that i saw last year they landed in like eagles collector collections which yeah is great it'll be stashed there and you let everything else play play itself out and then you know ten years from now like that'll be a card with a talking point so yeah it's it's certainly interesting for sure yep alright a card will just breeze by because we already talked about a little bit but the tyler warren black finite man i wish i would have seen this card seven k yeah if you saw it for seven k been smashed yeah i would have been smashed it yeah and i love i love the card itself too it's just like his blocks are out the back he's got he just looks like he's ready to play football i just love it yeah okay we move on to a twenty twelve tops chrome superfractor of aj green which this performed extremely well via auction selling for five thousand one hundred and eighteen dollars this card is raw what is happening pack that's a lot of money for that card aj green though was awesome put some respect on aj green's name first seven years in the league seven pro bowls no first team all pros a couple of second team all pros but yeah this is create this is a higher sale than i thought it would go for for a raw copy i mean but look at the super factors from this from like tops chrome like o nine ten eleven twelve thirteen even like they they are awesome so that is a sick card sick picture a lot of money but i don't know if it's if you need it if you want it if you got the money why not why not a lot of a lot of gold swirls on that one ninety eight sp grand finale barry sanders psa six sold for fifty four hundred dollars i wanted to highlight this because this is such a a like basketball card a jordan card like grand finales you talk about in basketball but we never really talk about them in football too much and here's one like what do you think about the sale on this berry card i'll be honest i don't love these grand finales they're not my favorite looking cards because i i remember seeing like the the jordan of this card is always like revered as one of the best mj cards and to me it's i don't know i don't know if it's the die cutness or the like the pictures kinda being washed out on the one side yeah i don't know this is a lane that i'm not super familiar with it is a cool card i i don't it's just not my personal favorite what do you what do you think about these i just can't stop looking at the fact that and on this card barry sanders is wearing a cowboy collar and i've never remembered barry sanders wearing a cowboy collar you see that yeah that that picture's sick but then it's like the two on the right just throw me off like it's like a mugshot on the bottom right it's like a mugshot yeah the yeah the maybe in hand they're sick i i don't know it's just always been one that when i like look at like when cajun cardboard did the mj hierarchy i feel like this is really high and i was always like that really that one so i don't know but i understand that at the time this probably had its own you know moment and it has its own legacy that i'm not familiar with so i don't i'm not trying to knock it it's just yeah we move over to the final card which is the o two finest drew brees gold refractor psa ten selling for three thousand two hundred and forty dollars the there has been one other sale which was in twenty twenty three of a psa ten selling for thirteen hundred and eighty dollars so these cards are appreciating people like these cards quite a bit this is or this is the same copy this is all this is a pop one i didn't realize this mhmm yeah yeah pop one that's a sick card i love this set that seems like a very low price if you consider that there is a tom brady psa ten currently at auction at golden auctions already with twenty four days left it sits at seventy six thousand dollars oh my god for the brady which is which is wild and like there have been some big sales of in the set like some mosses and some of the mannings lately so for breeze to come in at thirty two seems reasonable i don't know like a man in gold wasn't didn't the man just sell for like ten or eleven yeah these cards have got i i love these cards they look great but what i struggle with so much is we get into this like ten k territory and it's like dude there's twenty five copies five copies you know and i just can't look past that i i love how people love them but like i'm willing to like i'm willing to sell it all day at that because yeah it's like there's so many of these there's twenty five relation to what i tip what i try to aspire to collect yes there's not only are there twenty five copies they grade very well in my experience and from what i've seen like lot of tens out there so you know this sale i'm i'm surprised like after this brady sale i wonder if that will open more eyes even if that brady if the brady goes for six figures you know like i feel like then i would maybe more of these will hit the market and maybe or more people will grade them i don't know i don't know i bet more will come out of the woodwork after a massive public sale like the brady because that brady gold has never sold publicly so that'll be a fun one to watch of course they'll they'll come out that's what that's what we do that's right but yeah shout out card ladder for market watch those were a great set of cards yeah alright quick collecting updates and we'll get out of here let's do it only purchase on my end was wait let me just pull it up i wanna make sure i get the details right i was pumped about this so two thousand leaf certified mirror red priest homes at auction a tom brady psa ten of this is tom brady rookie year recently sold for thirty five thousand dollars which kinda opened my eyes to this set and i saw the priest homes pop up and it was at auction and i bid a max of fifty dollars and it sold for ninety nine cents so i got it for one fiftieth of my mega bid so that felt was a good win and then i paid five dollar shipping on a ninety nine cent card so that that's my my one pickup of the of the week what about you yeah i've just been in this like cold gold gold vinyl twenty twenty five train i picked up the jonathan taylor my the inmates are running the asylum there right now that's that's labs hq i picked it i got the taylor golden gold vinyl awesome i got the alec pierce gold vinyl and some ones we don't need to talk about that i'm not even sure i care about but i need them for my collection so i know the audience doesn't care about it but i've been in this just deep and i of course i tried to tell myself i wasn't going to be but here i am that's awesome i haven't my oh i'll talk about it if i ends up happening but that lance briggs that got stolen someone dm'd me and they binned another lance briggs and said that they would sell it to me just for for cost so because they heard about my story on the football card pod so that is awesome what it's still just verbal once that happens i'll shout them out and we'll talk about that but yeah i haven't there are other bear stuff i just feel like it's expensive i feel like this is the double edged sword of the bears are having success and more people are like trying to buy cards now i don't i don't know what it is but yeah stuff's just higher than i wanna pay so maybe i'm just stuck in my old ways of like you know prism should be this much but yeah alright card call out last week we asked to see super bowl mvps that was a great call there were some awesome super bowl mvp cards there were some awesome just super bowl mvp collections in general of people with like sets and i've decided moving forward i need to do a better job of shouting out the people who submit to the card callout i think that will encourage participation and and it's like i'm looking at all these cards sharing all these cards i need to talk about them to the masses but this week episode thirty five card callout should we do offensive player of the years since we're talking about jsn i think that could be fun or like mvps or first team all pros something something along those lines or let's let's do offensive player of the year i thought i had one for this week but it's actually next week it's i was the timing i had my timing off so offensive players of the year would be sweet i'd love that okay so any player that's won the offensive player of the year take a picture of the card tag the football card pod on instagram we will reshare we'll talk about them next week thank you for listening to the football card podcast see you later