It's always fun doing these episodes. Sometimes we have some tech issues, but we're on the other side of that. I'm I'm excited to talk with today's guest. It's been a while since I've talked with Joe.

You might know him as Low Pop Poppy on Instagram. I'm excited to talk with him in a smashing bin format. There's a lot of fun topics and certainly an awesome card to dig into that Joe smashed bin on.

But without further ado, Joe, welcome. How are you? Oh, I'm great, Brett. Thank you so much for the invite back. Gotta give you your flowers a bit to start the show.

I think just continue to be, just incredibly wowed by everything you're doing with stacking slabs and the way you're taking the brand into all these, like, sub franchises and giving collectors literally content you can look forward to every day.

So I just, on behalf of the whole community, thank you. Haven't had a chance to listen to the staging area yet.

I think that's your latest foray. I think that comes out maybe while we're recording, but, just honestly, just thank you for everything you're doing to to sort of make this hobby great and bring such great content to all of us.

It's a it's easy to do it when I get to talk with collectors like you about incredible cards, and you certainly have one that I'm excited to get into the story.

But maybe before we get into the story of your bin smash, I always like to talk with guests about their philosophy on smashing Ben.

I think it's a emotional decision. We oftentimes don't have a ton of time, but maybe that we've done some prep work or do some research in the moment to make sure what we're about to do is sound.

But how do you I know you you you have a great collection and you probably buy in a lot of different formats. What is your overall mindset and mentality when you smash bin on a card?

I mean, I think those times when you actually check your saved searches, when you go through the normal maybe it's your morning when you first wake up, but we have these times during the day where we are on eBay and other platforms doing this.

And when you actually see something that's on your list, and you've had so many people come onto the show and talk about just that kind of almost like giddiness and euphoria.

Like, I can't believe that card was actually there, and here it is matching up with something that I've been looking for.

You've also had, I think, other people talk about things you wouldn't have expected to see that sometimes hit your safe searches. For me, when it does happen, it's fantastic. It has to be within a certain realistic range.

I will tell you there's plenty of times you see things pop up that are cards you may want, but they are not at a smashable number. They are at a very unsmashable number. So that I think happens to a lot of us on a regular regular basis.

But when those stars align and you see something that is on a list or is core to one of your player or team collections or whatever lens you might look at, and it aligns with roughly a range that you would be even if it's, like, even if it's unreasonable.

Right? That's beautiful, but it doesn't happen that often. And, you know, the one we're gonna talk about today is actually, it wasn't I don't know if I would call it a smash. I know we're doing smashing bin.

It was more of a, a shaky hand button push than a smash, but I guess we'll get into that in a second. I I don't think I've asked any other guests about this, but it was going through my mind as you were describing that.

You you know, the stars, everything has to line up, but I've always found, like, there's this, like, feeling that I have where it's it's almost, like, similar to, like, your stomach dropping or, like, a little bit of nervous excitement combination that you go through that to me is, like, going through the reps and sets of buying cards for so long.

It's, like, the validation to me. It's, like, that feeling you get, and then it's, like, okay. This feeling that I've I've gotten, it's not normal, but I can feel it, gives me the confidence to smash Ben.

Do you have, like, a feeling that hits you when it it gives you some sort of confidence that you're making kind of the right decision in the moment?

There is absolutely for me that holy crap feeling that's happened on a number of occasions where I can't believe this card is listed.

Oftentimes, it's raw or it's with a bad picture or it has a whole bunch of other things where you immediately go into, is this real?

But there is a a stomach drop that feeling that you get when something appears on eBay You know, I think we've all kind of experienced some version of that, whether it's at low price points, mid price points, or high price points.

It's a it's an amazing feeling, but you also, for me, it's coupled with, like, an immediate nervousness.

Because I feel like that clock the ticking clock, even if that card is relisted or maybe it's been there before, for me, the fact that I've seen it and it's incredible, and it's for a certain price, I now feel like I'm on the clock to make a call.

100%. And I think this is one of the most, fun cards that I we've talked about on this show.

And it's got the player, one of the most important players of a specific era. It is the card profile that once we start talking about it, everyone's going to know and recognize.

And, also, I think it's a a pretty cool year inside kind of the, the product, in this card. So without further ado, let's let's show your card.

And, Joe, why don't you get into what we're showing for people who can't see it and talk us through the story of you smashing Ben on it. So the card here is the 2018 Panini kaboom, gold Steph Curry number to 10.

This was a Panini rewards redemption product. It was a multi sport set. So you'll see, you know, the Brady, the Messi, the, you know, the Mahomes of of the kind of kamboom golds from 2018, different collectors sort of showing those off.

So it's one of those cards that, I'll be honest with you. I I was not historically a big kaboom guy, but as I started to, you know, I did own some.

I then traded some. There was a lot of hype around kaboom, but this was this so this was back this is not a recent smash, Brett. This was back in, mid twenty twenty three.

So it's the summer of twenty twenty three. And just to give you a little bit of context, I we were coming off of, know, the mark you saw the market starting to decline, right, early twenty twenty three.

You saw, Crown Royal, so Panini through Crown Royal putting out Kaboom Gold's impact pulled options for the first time. That product had just dropped in the spring of twenty twenty three.

So there was this kind of new wave of, well, what oh, kaboom gold. What's this gonna be? This is maybe Panini is gonna run this for the next three to four years that they have a license.

Basketball, including twenty eighteen. So there was a lot of discussion I was having with other collectors and talking about what this could mean.

And, I, you know, I will prefer the numbered stuff to the unnumbered in general, especially when some of the unnumbered stuff gets really high pop.

So I but I was paying attention to this because of the time period and that pack pulled release. And I was in a stage in my collecting journey where I did wanna put more equity into Curry.

I had a really nice Curry collection at the time. I was focused on inserts and parallels. We'll get you we'll get you to come around on Panini inserts at some point, Brett. Slowly, one conversation at a time.

But I had a a nice collection of that those types of cards, but I wanted to add something that was a big card, something that could be kind of a a cornerstone of kind of a panini insert and parallel collection.

And I actually started to look for twenty eighteen kabooms, and I and I searched eBay, and this card was just sitting there.

It was sitting there with a really high price. It was, I was, I was sitting on some card equity from some stuff I moved. So I had put some, I had some money aside that I wanted to reinvest in cards, but the price was it was it was high.

I couldn't believe it was sitting there, but I didn't it wasn't an immediate button push by any means. I said, I need to now go into full research mode, and that's what I did over the next couple days.

But go ahead, Brett. Yeah. So I love this thread, and I wanna get into research mode because I find that that may be the most important part of it.

But maybe can you walk us through in this time frame 2023, what was going on with Kabooms from, like, a perception and market perspective?

I think you mentioned Kaboom now, and it's maybe it's one of the most popular, if not most popular card right now in the Panini era. You could debate, right, gold prisms and this and that.

But, like, the kaboom in general has taken over in terms of collectors want it, card flippers want it, repackers want it, every breaker wants to pull it. So maybe talk us through that in 2023 when you're buying this.

Like, what was the the conversation like around the Kaboom, card? So the I think the Kaboom conversation at that point was on an upward tick. It certainly was not where it is today.

You know, now I feel like if we put kaboom up here, people are like, oh my goodness. Another episode about kaboom. But this was not that was not the the the feeling at the time. There was interest.

I had just come off of, being at National that year and trade night. There was some movements and around some kabooms people had there. There was conversation. There was an uptick, but it wasn't nearly at the level that it was today.

But the introduction of the golds into that Crown Royale set, I think was sort of giving it new life. And, specifically, the golds, you know, there was a lot of conversation around, well, where does this rank among Curry's best cards?

Where do gold kabooms rank among anybody who is a Panini era player? Where do you stack them relative to prism goals, to select goals, to opticals?

Where in that total, you know, pantheon of cards do they rank? And I think it was just sort of on the uptick is what I would say. And and a wave was coming, but the wave wasn't fully there.

And then so these cards were, the wave hasn't hit yet. And then, obviously, we like rarity and scarcity in anything that related to cards. And so you have a card that's certainly popular.

People are talking about it. It has an upward trajectory. But there hadn't been an introduction of the gold, which which maybe limits, limits, you know, the production and makes those cards even more desirable.

What in in had there already been this, the golds are impossible to get, the golds are way more valuable.

The golds are way more desirable than the regular kabooms. Was this kind of forming was this already a part of kind of the dialogue that was going on in the hobby?

Well, there was certainly with the new release of Crown Royale, like, you know, people were looking at the LeBron, which had the image of him, post sort of achieving the scoring title.

And there was, you know, certain cards and and certain players and certain images were clearly more sought after.

The Curry from that year had the night night posts, which, of course, we know, you know, that there's a premium there and a lot of collectability with that.

But as you started to look into the history and this is where I started to, like, immediately go into full research mode, Brett.

I looked at the sales on the Curry, and you're talking about a card, okay, out of 10, but, like, nine graded copies. Do you know how many sales there were in calendar year 2022 of this card?

No. Graded copies. How many sales? Seven sales. Oh, wow. Seven sales. And what you saw as I look back at those sales so, you know, shout out to card ladder for being next to all of us through all these kind of journeys.

But each sale from February to November, seven sales, each one, the price went lower, and the price went lower, and the price went lower.

And that feels like, you know, something you and Nick used to talk about on auction talk all the time, which is, you know, you know that if you just keep putting a card like this in the market, that you're gonna see probably an ad or lower price each time.

And the the pricing on eBay of this card, which was a huge number and a and a not to be, you know, taken lightly number at all. The most I had ever spent, Brett, on a card at this point in my collecting journey.

I've done trades. I've done other things, you know, where you sort of have a bunch of card equity. You move it into other card equity. I had never ever come close to spending cash on a card like this ever.

So I had to go through this this research process and use I saw these seven sales in a row all declining, and this card was priced right in line with the November sale, the last of those seven sales.

So then I go into, okay, well, wait a second.

This is really weird. Did this fall into the flippers vortex? What happened to the Curry Kaboom 2018? And I started to look at other players. You look at Kobe, and I think there was only three sales total.

You looked at LeBron, there was only one public sale. And that Kobe was three X, the price of this Curry and the LeBron was 80% more the price of the Curry. Now those cards have incredible images.

If you've ever seen them bred, it's like Kobe screaming, like, coming across the card, and LeBron has an action shot. So, visually, the the art artistry of the card, you could argue, is much nicer on those on the Kobe and the LeBron.

But is it really worthy of three x or double? It just didn't make sense to me. I started to go into Messi. I went into Brady. I went across the set, and you saw the same thing. The Brady was two x the Curry.

The Messi was 50% more than the Curry. All of that was just like this slowly building this house of confidence or or, like, reassuring, like, maybe I should push this button. And this was only over the course of a couple days.

And, you know, of course, I'm keep going back, the eBay to check to make sure that it's still there, that I'm not off doing too much research over here while somebody is figuring out what I'm what I think I'm figuring out or what the conclusion I'm slowly coming to.

Is that something that somebody else would just come on and kinda sweep it out from under me?

So I love this, the comparative analysis, research, digging in. Do you have any idea why the Curry was selling so often in a calendar year time?

And I think what's interesting about hearing it from you is that I I look at the repeated sales if I'm selling cards, and I it gives me an indication. Okay. Now is not a good time to sell this card.

I should just wait. But I I guess I never really think about if you are a buyer of one of these cards, observing that data and saying, okay. Well, it's like, you know, trying to catch a falling sword at this point.

And it's like, maybe if I just sit back here and wait a little bit, I can get the card at a price that's right in line with what I think it's valued and what it's worth.

Maybe, talk a little bit about what what you found. Yeah. I mean, I do look at that as as sales. I did that for a while in the in the Jordan insert market. Not now. It's too expensive.

But but back a couple years ago, you could really see when something was selling too often and the price going down, and you might have a target price that you really believe in a card or a ceiling you really believe a card has.

I think it's important to look at sales as a buyer, not just as a seller. But this was strange in that it felt like the Curry was an anomaly in the set overall.

You were not seeing as many sales. You know, the Brady had two or three sales. The Mahomes had two sales. The Messi had one. The LeBron had one. I was like, wait a second.

What happened? I don't know what happened, Brett. But the seller of this card clearly was looking at the last, basically, like, two comps, not maybe thinking of it in that broader market context and had it listed at a certain price.

I mean, not still a crazy price. I don't wanna make it sound like, oh, here I am getting a deal on this thing. It is a, you know, not to be taken lightly number, but it gave me confidence that maybe this is a direction I should go.

And maybe this is, maybe this is at least priced properly as opposed to too often you see cards like this at, like, four x comps on eBay.

So you you made the decision. You didn't maybe smash Ben, but you you you you touched Ben, and the card is yours.

So the card comes, and once you received the card, what kind of thought were you validated? What kind of thoughts were going on in your head when you finally landed this thing?

Well, this I here you can see I posted it here even before I got this is the eBay image. This is, like, what Chris and Josh from Car Ladder tell you to never do. Right? This is an acquisition day post.

But so it was obvious I obviously had excitement around it, but I did get it. Once I got it in hand, you do kinda love them. Look. As much, as polarizing, right, as kabooms can be in our community, the golds are really beautiful, hand.

I mean, they're undeniably good looking. And you can say, well, I don't like cartoons or I don't like this, but they're gorgeous cards. And what it did for me is it sort of sent me down this path of, okay.

Now I'm really gonna go all in on Curry more so than before. It kind of, like, strengthened my fortitude around and believing in in the, hey. I can be a Curry collector with a decent collection.

And and and you kinda, I think, want that as a collector. You wanna collect something where you feel like you can your passion around a player can really be represented in a great collection in whatever lane you choose.

And I'm not an auto guy. I'm not really a patch guy, but can I go build a really good shiny curry collection? And this was kind of the impetus to, like, really send me down a different path.

Brett, after this, I I I sold and moved on from a whole bunch of other players in current including your guy, Halliburton. I had a great one of one rookie Halliburton collection.

I had, Luca stuff I moved out of. This was it kind of was a transformative moment. I think you and I have talked a little bit about this before. Like, collecting is a little bit like a evolutionary game.

Right? Like like, us as people, we're programmed to continue to improve and get better and learn. And I think that is representative often in our collecting, the way we kind of evolve.

And this would to me was a little bit of that moment of it sent my collecting in a different direction for sure. Incredible story. Incredible card. I love the fact that we got a gold kaboom on here.

And so maybe let's move on and let's dig into some other, bin smashing sales. I try to, curate these based on kind of what our guests collect, and I figured you'd have some perspective on this.

But, we've got a color blast here from 2019 Spectra. This was a bin smash on March 6 for 7,500 of Steph Curry and a BGS 9.

5. Where do you how do you view I guess, maybe talk about the card, talk about the sale, but how do you view we just talked about KaBOOM, and it feels like if we're talking about KaBOOM, we gotta mention Color Blast.

So how do you feel about Color Blast? I'm a fan. I'm a fan especially of this particular year of the first year. I think, each of the players has a different color effect around them.

The Curry has this wonderful smoky effect that's different than the other players. So I think it's one of the most visually striking cards, in the set, the way that they represented Curry here.

I do own this card. I what did you say the price was, Brett, on this? 7,500. I think that's a pretty good price, Brad. I mean, there have been sales of this in a 09/05, that have eclipsed this.

I think in a sale even after this, that might have eclipsed it. So to me, the buyer has done pretty well, here by my view. I think this is a card that you know, there's only 50 to 60 copies, we think.

You They're not numbered. But when you look at a bunch of the pop reports and you look at graded copies and, you talk to different people who sort of calculate these things, we think that there's around 50 to 60 that were printed.

So I think it's strong. I mean, you know, the PSA 10, if I was giving advice to somebody on this card, I would say try to wait wait out a PSA 10.

There are, I think, there are 14 PSA tens and maybe twelve nine five. So it grades pretty well. But I think it is a long term great representation of the Panini era first year color blast.

Like, it is a whole for Curry and a great Curry card to sort of represent, represents him, but also represents, I think, a a standout within the Panini era.

If you're thinking about rarity and scarcity and this, like, case hit era of Panini cards, taking the golds out of off the table because, obviously, those are limited to 10 copies.

How would you would you would you and I have not spent the time digging in and looking at the data, but it seems to me just based on, the the small amount of research that I've done that the color blast are a lot more rare and scarce than the standard kaboom.

Is is that true? Is that, what you found based on your research or my it is certainly true for, the years that Color Blast existed relative to those years of kaboom.

There are the earlier kaboom years that have, some of them have some really nice rarity to them. The 2018, the more the the 2016, you know, few in that sort of range that don't get talked about as much, have some lower print runs.

But this to me is that really great sweet spot. Like, 50 copies of a card is pretty interesting. And then, like, you know, a high grade copy of it.

And it's beautifully aesthetically. When you hold this card, it is gorgeous. I don't love that they did different versions of color blast in in subsequent years that kind of are too close to the original.

I do prefer it, like, when they, you know, take some creative liberties and and use the brand name to maybe take the design in a different direction.

That's always preferable because then you can get a nice, direction, that's always preferable because then you can get a nice mosaic of things as opposed to feeling like you're getting the same card.

But first year, I mean, I I I just have to look at this as a a strong whoever got this is, you know, lucky lucky collector. They don't the high grades of this now don't pop up that often. I I do not see them every day.

So that's why that this one caught my attention. All right, we're moving. We're still talking kaboom here. This '1 twenty thirteen fourteen kaboom out of Innovation LeBron PSA 10. This thing May 19 been smashed for 20 k.

This is the I believe this is the first is this the debut year? This is the debut year of kaboom. Yes. How do how do we feel about this sale? Like, in I know that we're obsessed with firsts in this hobby.

Maybe I don't I hardly know anything about kaboom, so educate me. Is this is this value not good value? Brett, we're gonna alien half your audience by talking about kaboom's for half for the majority of the episode.

Look. I I think first, we all know. First year matters. First year of, an insert that regardless of how you feel about it will have importance historically in the Panini era.

Best card in this set is this, you know, first year LeBron. It is interesting because while the print runs might be somewhere between one fifty and two hundred for this, very low gem rate card.

So there's only 12 PSA tens. So that has a premium. So you get to this so, yes, there's maybe 150 to 200. Other people will say different number, but it's in that sort of range of total copies.

And then to have a 12, PSA 10 sort of gem rate is like really interesting. Makes you think about the Jordan market in PSA tens, maybe think about what we've seen with some of the Kobe's and PSA tens.

Will some of these harder to grade LeBrons that are, you know, that are of significance and importance and first subsets, they're gonna command a premium that is gonna break our brains, Brett, when it comes to PSA nines versus PSA tens or nine fives to tens.

We're seeing that PSA 10 premium in plenty of places outside of the nineties.

We are. And so to me, that 20 k is a representation of that because I think the nine, let's say, it does seven k. And then this card actually sold for over $40,000 in December. There was a I think it was Fanatics Premier.

Yeah. They they don't pop up that often. The the PSA tens, I think, historically, there's only been a couple sales. And when that sale in December happened, it hadn't the market hadn't seen one for over a year.

So the 20 been smashed to me feels smart. Do you, what's your I know it's crazy to say smart. I know. No. No. I feel really bad saying that, Brett. But when you just I get it. I was trying to put it in that context for a second.

What what do you what's your opinion on the look and feel and the more cartoon aspect of these debut year kabooms in comparison to how a player like Curry looks on the 2018 kaboom that you have?

Yeah. The twenty eighteens are almost a little bit in between. Like, if you see the Kobe and the LeBron, they feel a little bit more like a photorealistic image that's turned into, you know, an animated kind of image.

My personal favorites are actually the 2020 that first year of Crown Royal pack pulled to the 2022. Those feel like real photos. Mhmm.

So the Curry night night of that, which, we haven't seen sell in over a year and a half publicly, is is it's fantastic because you literally get the kind of leaping up night night thing, but I I prefer it to the to the full cartoon.

That's not true of everybody. I'll tell you, like, I have a son who's 20, and he's a collector also.

But he when these you know, years ago, when we were searching for these, like, actually buying packs when he was little, like, looking for these, he was the the younger generation is all over the cartoon.

They love it. Feel so, you know, it's hard to say, like, what is what's right, what's wrong.

I will tell you I prefer the photo real more photo realistic stuff. But this is an important card. No matter how you slice it, no matter how you feel about kabooms, this is an important card.

Alright. We're gonna round out this section with we we've mentioned his name already, but here's a Kobe, a 2013 innovation Kobe Bryant stained glass PSA 10 sold for 1,900 on June 8 via Binsmash.

I know, Joe, you're a fan of maybe some of these sets and inserts and parallels that don't get maybe the airtime that some of the other stuff like Kabooms do.

What do you think about this, innovation product? Obviously, like, it's kinda crazy that it didn't kinda doesn't have a, lineage and legacy, but a lot of important things seem to be happening, in this product.

And I know this card specifically is a card that over the years I've seen in many collectors' collections, and those who own them, always have really nice things to say about them.

Yeah. So this is the second year of innovation stained glass. We saw the first year was 2012. And in that year, there was a base and then there was a purple variant that is impossible to find and beautiful cards.

But they're you know, the 2012 is more like true etched stained glass. The twenty third thirteens are sort of stained glass inspired.

They're see through. They're acetate. You get that same kind of what I would consider. Like, if you're gonna do a stained glass card, you kinda need to see through it on some level for me.

Right? Don't just, like, do a stained glass image and then call it stained glass. So, yeah, I'm a I'm a big fan of what of all that innovation did, specifically these.

This is the base and there's a gold variation, and there's a light blue variation. None of them are numbered, but the gold and the light blue are far more rare. Far more rare.

So this what I think of the total population printed, into, graded copies here is, I think, for the COBE, I think I wrote this down somewhere, 77 total rated copies, whereas the gold is in the low 20s and the light blue is under 10 in terms of total graded copies.

So if you ever go to a show and you see any of these stained glass cards and they are in any sort of color like that, non numbered, please buy them for your favorite player because they are they're gorgeous cards.

And I think people outside of the there's many collectors who absolutely love these and are incredibly passionate about them, but the broader market doesn't actually know how rare they are.

And that's a a a a pin that we don't talk about enough, Brett, which is they did so much with non numbered inserts and parallels.

And we talk about them in pockets. We talk about galactic. You know, we talk about kaboom. But then things like this don't get talked about. Things like what they did with, Panini Black, White Nights the first year, not the football.

Football's super high pop. Basketball, low pop. Basketball's only fit like, first year was only they only made 15 copies. Not numbered, though. How do you know unless you do the math and sort of really look into it?

I think as you as we continue to evolve and we continue to sort of look back on the best of the Panini era and continue to get educated through card letter and pop reports and everything else, like, I think things like this will will grow.

Yeah. Our reverence for things like this will grow over time.

I'm excited to, I don't know. I sometimes I'm just like, I wish I could hit fast forward for ten years and see where we're at in the future when all of this stuff, gets sorted out and people's opinions.

And people don't I don't think enough collectors are giving Panini enough credit based on what they've built and what's out there.

But the more I think about it and the more I analyze what's laid out, I think down the road, we're gonna have a lot of really fun conversations on which cards collectors want the most, what are the hidden gems of the era that only a pocket of collectors are talking about now, but then get some publicity down the road and everyone starts to see all the reasons why certain cards might be more desirable than they were before.

I think it's gonna be a lot of fun. I totally agree. And if there was somebody who was naturally curious, who had, like, a pension for research, but who also a real passion for beautiful cards.

And if they ask me for, hey. What should I go look at? I would say, go down the rabbit hole of non numbered Panini inserts and and and parallels, and you will be happy.

I promise you. You will have beautiful cards. You will meet amazing people who collect these, and you'll feel like you found a lane that can be unique.

But you can still have this incredibly, like, beautiful, like, aesthetic collection as well. Before we get out of here, there was a sale or some sales that happened. We've mentioned Curry.

We've mentioned Night Night. We're gonna bring those together. But, Joe, you sent me a couple cards. First card is the 2024 tops Olympic now. Steph Curry, auto gold, one of one doing the night night pose from, we all saw the game.

We all remember where we were when we saw Steph do Steph Curry things. This thing sold this weekend as we're recording this for a staggering $5,185,500 dollars. I'll pause there first before we talk about the other card.

But, you know, when you're not paying attention to in something and then you just see some people online talking about it. I woke up the next morning and there were so many different people who reposted this.

And this is a little bit outside my lane. Obviously, the number is very, very high, but I wanted to get your opinion on this sale and why you felt compelled to talk about it.

Well, I think this is outside of almost everybody's lane, to be honest. But but the I I wanna talk about it for different reasons than I saw, a number of different people posting about.

You know, a lot of the posts were about the number and the price, and is it real paid for, what's it really worth. I don't really wanna talk about price as much as I wanna talk about a question that I have.

And are we is this sale and tops now as a product. There's also a couple huge Ohtani sales, right, from last year when there was the $40. 40 signed card and the $50.

50 signed card. The fifty fifty signed card did six figures. Well, you know, strong six figures. Right? Solid sales in the twos, I think. And you combine that with the MLB debut patches, you know, sort of the schemes, Jace and all that.

You think about fanatics as a brand and the access that they have to athletes and to jerseys in real time. And my big question here, Brett, is, are all of these things together, are we gonna see fanatics time shift the hobby?

So we think about the Panini era to me was all about these, like, release dates. Right? Like, when is the new prism coming out? When is when is contenders coming out? When is, like, you can go through it?

Like, I used to just, like, set your clock by it. And then you would have the waterfall of stuff that would happen after that. You know if you want the important cards, you have a few weeks to get them right after these things come out.

You gotta go look at breakers. You gotta have the right connections at first for getting certain cards. But we were built around these schedules, and the schedules also were, like, a year later.

So they play this wonderful season. You have all this, you know, passion as a fan of a team or a player, and then you gotta wait a year for the set to come out.

But we got used to that, and we got used to that. And those times even got longer as Panini got closer as get gotten closer to the end of their of their era.

But, well, fanatics and what we're seeing with tops now, what we're seeing with the debut patches, and we're gonna see the same thing with NBA, and we're gonna see the same thing with NFL.

Are we heading into an era that will be time shifted where the hobby will be always on? Because this price, whether you agree with it or not, says this is one of the most important curry cards that exists.

Now you can say it's too much. It doesn't matter. Cut the price in half. It's still one of the most important curry cards. Collectors And two people at least said to them, this is one of the most important curry carts.

If that's the case, and we saw it with Ohtani too, are we gonna enter into an era where type products, the immediate releases, which fanatics will be able to do better than anybody because of their access to athletes?

Are we entering into a hobby that is now gonna be time shifted and more moment focused and more auto and memorabilia even focused than before?

Oh, this is a, Joe, this is a great topic and probably a whole another episode and conversation.

But I wanna get your opinion as someone who's obviously been thinking a lot about this sale and the Ohtani and maybe some of these other sales.

It is challenge change is hard. It is hard to shift collectors' opinions, especially if we're used to the way certain things are.

No matter if it's the best change in the world, everyone's gonna not like it out of the gates, especially when they realize they're priced out of the biggest and best cards, especially if they are manufacturer driven, in the moment.

Do you think a shift in this trend I mean, it's it's it's happening.

It's undeniable. Like, every big card that we're talking about that's brand new is coming from tops, the Skins card, this card. Do you like, what is your early perception on what that does for the hobby?

Maybe maybe it attracts more people, but but what do you think it's a good thing ultimately, a a bad thing? Jury's still out. Like, how do you feel about it? I'm a little torn on it.

I do think that it can have the potential of having more mass appeal. I think collectors who find their way to, you know, prism golds and, you know, beautiful one of ones and rare products, they find their way there.

Right? There are journeys evolve there. They develop taste and they discern and they sort of choose and go down a road of of evolving as a collector to find their niche.

Whereas this to me is like the equivalent of big crazy Eddie billboard, but with a one on one rarity to it.

Right? Because the power of a moment that we all watched. So this this product came out. There's a redemption, I believe. Right? Because it the product itself came out the day The US won.

So tops now said, okay. We're doing Olympic cards. Sign up and pay pay for the packs, and then you get a redemption, and you get the auto, and you get that sign, and you get the card.

I believe that that's the way it works. But because I'm not a buyer of this, but to me that is I can sell that to my neighbor.

I can't sell why this first year optic gold is really important to my neighbor. It requires so much explanation. Whereas when I can say, we all saw it. You saw the news, you know, fifty fifty.

Here it is. Right after that, they printed this card and he signed it and they put $50. 50 on it. It's a one of one and it's $200,000. They go, That's crazy price, but they understand it immediately.

So I do think it'll have the effect of bringing more people into the hobby, but I don't love the fact that it's gonna maybe take us away from some of the design nuance and branding nuance and, you know, hopefully, fanatics maintain some of that as they do new releases so that collectors who do wanna navigate their way through amazing aesthetically beautiful products can still find their way to things they care about as opposed to, you know, the number one hype machine six figure cart.

That is, definitely an interesting thread to pull on.

I love it how we book ended this conversation with, Steph Curry cards. Joe, it's always fun to talk with you about your collection and the way you think about what's happening in cards.

We will have to do it again down the road. Thank you, Brett. Thanks for having me and, have an awesome rest of your day. You're the best.