Alright. Welcome back to another episode of Smashing Ben. Excited for today's conversation. For all you soccer card collectors out there that listen to stacking slabs, this one is for you.

We are going to be talking about some primarily soccer cards throughout the entire episode, so I'm excited to dig in. And today, I am joined by James, James at Mad City Collector.

He's been on the pod before. Always have a good time chopping it up. James, welcome back, man. How are you? I'm good. Thanks for welcoming you back. Excited to get into some bin smashing, and, yeah, let's go.

So maybe before we talk about your card, we've and we've had a few of these conversations over the years, and I know we've talked about your mentality and philosophy around auctions and how you approach them, but I know we haven't talked about bin smashing.

So maybe let's start there. Like, how do you think about the bin smash? When do you you use it? Like, what needs to be true in order for you to take that, leap?

Let's just hear a little bit about how you think about smashing bin. Well, I I guess, for me, it's important to have a knowledge of the markets for a card that you're thinking about bin smashing.

You have to have just seen a bunch of auctions and essentially had the reps to know kind of what's, you know, an expected, you know, value ranges for the cards, you know, that pop up.

So I I guess for me, a lot of times, I you know, I'm constantly going to card ladder, you know, just looking up, like, what are these cards going for now? You know, what have they been going for?

What's the trajectory been like? You know, what are similar cards? And that's that's kind of an underrated thing, I think, because people like direct comps, but, a lot of the cards I look for just, you know, don't sell.

You know, they they may have no comps, like, for card we'll talk about today had had no comps, essentially. And so how do you how do you find a range for what a card should be like if you have no comps for it?

And so that's, but, like, being in the market, seeing you know, sometimes, you know, there are cards that you like way less than a card, and they sell for five times more than a card sitting, for best offer on eBay for.

And you're just like, why is no one why is no one smashed this? Like and so, there's just lots of kind of variables to factor into, just with knowledge of the market.

And sometimes, yeah, sometimes you have to realize, you know, like, I you know, people just don't recognize that this is, you know, this is actually a deal, those sorts of things.

So I I think just time in the market is really I I you can you can press, you know, you can be could be reckless and just start hitting Ben left and right if you see cards you like without, like, thinking about price.

But, I always, you know, like, at least know that I'm not being too reckless with what I'm, doing when I hit Ben, and have at least a good rationale based off experience, to back that up.

You you touched on something there that we haven't talked about in this series yet, which I think would be a fun can of worms to open.

But you see a card, it fits within your criteria, set your building, a player you like, and you maybe don't have data to, like, figure out exactly what the comp should be on it.

But you it it's, yeah, it's it makes you feel something when you see it right away, but then maybe you get busy with kids, family, work, or whatever.

And hours later, you look at it, and the card's still sitting there. And you're like, gosh. That card's cool, but I I'm just not sure the price. And then maybe you go to bed, and then it's still there.

And then maybe a day later, it's still there. What what what happens in your mind as a collector when there's a card you really want, but it has a buy it now price that is kind of a mystery to anyone?

But if you continue to see that it sits there, like, how does that make you respond or react when a card sits on the shelf for, you know, a few days before anything happens? Yeah. I I I I think it would definitely happens.

The the longer it sits there, I think I I have, like, this imaginary kind of, like, picture of a room of of, like, you know, collectors looking at each other and being like you know, like, they're kinda like, is this, you know, is this a good price?

Like, I I don't you know, it's like it's just sitting there a long time, so it must be worth less than that.

And so there's like I feel like, you know, you because you see how many watchers there are. Like, people are watching this. Like, they're like they're they're kinda like, I don't you know?

And so it's interesting. So the longer it sits there, people kind of, you know, kind of valuation goes down and the likelihood of someone just, you know, hitting bin goes down.

And so, you know, that's when you start being like, you know, let it sit there for a while. You're like, oh, it's kind of a distressed asset at some point.

And so then that's when you can kinda swoop in with offers and kinda, you know, test the waters and, you know, the depending on the urgency of the seller, like, that's, like, it's it's kinda get you know, it's a game of chicken.

Like, a lot of times with other collectors with these certain bin things, you're like, is some other collector crazy enough to hit this bin?

And, you know, I I've gotten pretty good, yeah, at if if certain cards from certain sets, from certain players, if they're there, I have a I have a pretty good feeling.

A lot of times, if they're gonna be gone within, like, a day or two, whether it's smashing bin or, you know, you know, throwing out the best offer. And I so I I kinda there's a lot of card.

I mean, there's been a few cards recently where I'm like, you know, someone's gonna get this card in the next couple days, whether it's a bin, you know, whether it's a bin or best offer, because there's gonna be lots of people aggressively pursuing it.

So, but, yeah, it's it's yeah.

As it sits there, you know, for me, it's like if I really like the card, I essentially spend the whole next day or two trying to talk myself into paying, like, coming up with a bid that will probably win the card.

It may not be the bin price, but what is the best offer I could really, like, throw out there that I'm pretty sure someone would accept? I mean, there's a few times where I throw out best offers even if they rejected my best best offer.

I would just probably hit Ben right after right after they rejected it. So it's it's kind of a you know, it's it's it's a it's a fun you know, it's like a a game you play in your head if it's like a card on, like, a a platform.

You're like, you know, is someone else gonna you know, you know, where are they gonna go with this?

So it's it's part of the game. It's part of the fun, I think, actually. Okay. You mentioned watchers, which I wanna maybe hit on before we talk about the card.

When you look at watchers to you, maybe within 24, based on what you collect, what is, like, a volume of watchers that indicates to you that you need to maybe take action and especially if it's a card you really want?

That's a good question. Because I because I do pay attention to the number.

Like, certainly on auctions, for a lot of the cards I collect, the watchers get you know, you know, if they start getting close to a hundred, you're just like, that's you know, there's people some people are there for the spectacle, then you're you're but you're like, you know you know some of those hundred bidders are gonna people who are interested, and there's definitely gonna be a floor.

For buy it now, yeah, it it's for the really for the really top top cards, if it's a if it's a somewhat reasonable price, yeah, you really see those watchers get up into the, you know, like, you know, close to a hundred.

I mean, even, like, in the, you know, like, 50 to 75 range, I mean, it's you can tell that people are kinda thinking hard about, like, at least putting a best offer in if it's not a bin.

So, and then, I mean, eBay has I I don't I don't know whether they've always had this. I just haven't really noticed it, but they they start alerting me now if there are other offers having been made for some of these cards.

And when I start getting those messages, if it's a card I really want, then that really starts like, I start thinking like, and and, you know, for some lower priced stuff, I've definitely hit Ben when I've when I've seen, like, other people, like, throw out offers.

I'm just like, you know, I'm not gonna chance this and type of thing. But, yeah, it that's kinda what you know, it's like once it starts getting over 50, I guess, it's probably you know, just to throw kind of a a round number on it.

I'm just like, you know, this is this is getting a little more attention than than I'm comfortable with if I really want the card.

Better act quickly type of thing. So So one more maybe before we segue in, Vikari. You mentioned, you know, no comps, maybe not knowing if you should bin or not. You collect a specific set. You collect a specific parallel.

How and I I've I based on your approach and the way you collect, I would imagine you probably have a really good pulse generally on adjacent players in the parallel and what they've gone through by looking at card ladder just like your regular checks.

Like, do you have a process or methodology on what you should be paying for a card in the set that you collect even if it doesn't have any data or comps to help support whatever the seller on the other side wants for the card?

Yeah. I mean, that's so, I mean, for my side specifically, there's, like, kind of tiers of players.

And so I I I know essentially what those tiers of players for the and so that's generally kind of the range I'm think I, you know, have to be willing to pay to get a lot of them.

The only monkey wrench is there's certain players and, teams, I think we've talked in the past about, like, Liverpool, for instance.

Like, I recently bought a Liverpool player, and I just I refused to buy it at first because I was like, this is just to the tier of this player, this is, like, this is wild.

And so I I finally was just like, you know, I think I'm gonna have to do it. But, but, yeah, that that's generally what I do.

It's like I'm you know, I have to be willing to pay this if I you know, if it's at auction, you know, sometimes, you know, I there there's a number of cards that I've just felt like I've gotten absolute steals for, that are below kind of even, like, the the best offer, been prices that have been hit.

And and I sometimes there's not a rhyme or reason to it.

It's just maybe it's just the day amount of money in someone's bank account or they some people don't see the auctions because, you know, there's a there's a number of cards I have that people like, oh, are you willing to sell this?

I'm like I'm like, no. Like, was that auction?

You could have easily just bid on it, and I I never never really gotten, you know, into the weeds. They're like, why people didn't bid against me on it or or whether they're they're just being, like, you know, speculative.

Like, oh, keep me in mind if you are thinking about selling type of thing. But but, yeah, that that that's what I do, a lot of times.

And sometimes, you know, like, you know, if if I see comps and I think it's gone low in the past, then compared to some other comps, like, you know, I I just I kinda see the I kinda see the upside on it.

I'm like and I and I think, you know, if I let this go by, maybe the next one doesn't come back in five years.

Like, what is the price gonna be in five years? Like, are people gonna catch up with kind of my, like, you know, affection for the set and things like that?

And so all those things kind of factor in. So sometimes I pay more, you know, more than comps knowing that if I don't see this card again in five years, like, it may be, you know, four times the comps now and double what I'm paying now.

So it's, you know, it it I kinda it's all kind of in that theoretical range that, you know, you kinda live in when you're a collector, when you kinda really know this you you know, the bona fides of a set or card really have a, you know, upward trajectory.

And it's not from a for me, it's not from, like, a, oh, I can sell this for four x in five years. This is, like, I don't wanna pay four x in five years. I better buy it now, like, type of thing.

So, but, yeah, that that's that's kinda what, you know, how how I go about these no comps cards. And the the card we're gonna talk about, you know, in in this grade, you know, they've never sold before type of thing.

And so and there had been, you know, relatively few sales of cards any cards from this parallel. So, you know, I I'll get into a couple of the cards that I use to comp it, you know, when we get into it type of thing.

So We're we're gonna get into it, but you keep saying things that are are interesting to me, and I feel like our I don't get to talk about soccer cards often. Yeah.

But you mentioned the Liverpool example. And for anyone who hasn't doesn't collect soccer cards or hasn't listened to a, previous conversation between James and myself is I learned that, you know, Liverpool's, collector base is insane.

Like, people are paying top tier prices for mere mid tier guys just because there's so much demand for, that club and collecting that club.

Now, I think we we, generally, in the hobby, we feel like player performance, should project price of cards, but there's so many other factors that, play a role.

How do you with, soccer where you've got the club the player's ability matters and potential, obviously, but then you've got the club and you've got the international component.

Like, do you does does do you have to, like, reorder those tiers based on those other external factors when you're going and approaching a card that you need for the set knowing that this player is loved in their country or this player is club who they play for has a huge collector base.

Like, how do you navigate that as you're trying to kinda collect and build out sets? Yeah. The variability of team collectors is is, I guess it's all I I I mean, I think it's there in all sports.

But even for, you know, really small, you know, what you think of as almost obscure clubs, a lot of these clubs are still the biggest clubs in their country.

So if you're, you know, from Portugal, you know, a team like Benfica, if that's your team.

So I I've, like, run into, like, Benfica collectors or, I'm trying to think. Yeah. That's one of the ones, like, sport or sport like, Sporting Club Portugal out of Lisbon is another one.

Like, for some reason and there and there's a couple players or even there's a basil. So basil in Switzerland is a is the biggest club in Switzerland.

Most casual, probably soccer fans. Never heard of it, but they, you know, they play in you know, they actually won I think they won their league this year, so they'll be in the champions league next year.

But, I there was a couple cards from this team where I, you know, I I know how much kind of, you know, players who aren't, you know, top tier household name type players.

Like, I I had an idea for what they were, and there's this one like, I I presumably, it was the same guy, kept outbidding me on, like, three or four cards in a row for this team.

And I was just like, I I I was like, wait for the you know? I gotta I guess I gotta wait for the next one or just, like, put in such a crazy bid for these cards.

I he he was he was beating me with probably three x bids for what for what I thought the card should go for. And so, like, yeah, that that's, like, the big hardest thing for me is, like, how much do I wanna, like, up it?

Like, luckily, these card you know, the cards I'm talking about are out of 10. So, like, conceivably, there'll be other copies that become available, but, like, I mean, you never know.

But how, I mean, how how much am I willing to blow, like, things out of the water? And I think, like, Austin was talking about the same thing with his, 2013 Select set.

Just, like, you know, how high do you wanna go? Like, when you have these team collectors come in and, because I think you who was I think who was he talking about? Was it, Fred Taylor or somebody Yes. He was talking about?

That was the I was like, this is like deja vu just with a different name of a player. I was like, you get just these people who are just, like, crazies for, like, their team. This is the best card for this player potentially.

And and, like, so they're willing to go really strong to get the best card for this player. And so, like, when you get in those situations, you kinda just have to calibrate, like, you know, what you're willing to do.

And it's, yeah, it's a bit of a game. It's, you know, like, I've let I've, you know, I've I've gone crazy on some, let some go, and, you know, I I haven't you know, I just play it by ear, I guess.

But but it's, it's it's a fun, yeah. And like I said, it took me so the player I was talking about was Trent Alexander Arnold for he was a Liverpool Player who is now gonna sign with Real Madrid.

Liverpool fans are pretty pretty aggravated with him, but, but he's but he's, you know, he's been, you know, up on their team for eight years, and they've won two Premier League titles and a Champions League.

So he's he's had a great career with them, and he's kind of going on to a new challenge. But be interested to see if, whether Liverpool fans look back on his time fondly.

But, yeah, I there's some auctions of his cards that were going for three or four times what, like, you know, pretty legendary players, like, went for, you know, of the same card.

And so I just, you know, I I I realized if I wanted the card, I was gonna have to do it because once they're buried in the, you know, the collector's, you know you know, whatever collection, they're not coming out for the most part.

So, especially if it's like it's just like it's the color match of his rookie card. So it's probably you know, other than the super factor from the set, it's it's, you know, it's, like, essentially the second best card.

Like so, you just have to put figure that all in, and, if you can you know, if your bank account can swing it, you that's what you gotta do to get the card.

So Why I like doing this show is because so much of what you said I know resonates with me, and we don't collect the same stuff, and I'm sure resonates with other collectors in adjacent categories.

Alright. Let's get into the card. I'm gonna pull it up on the screen.

Share what the card is, and maybe for anyone who hasn't heard you talk about this collection that you're building, maybe brief everyone on why this card is important for the collection that you're building and what the collection is.

Yeah. So it's the, 02/1718 Topps Chrome UEFA Champions League, Red Refractor, with Luka Modric, is the card. So I the context, for this so I think, this was I think I bought this card back in it was in July of twenty twenty three.

At that time, I had, I probably about nine months before that, I'd had kind of a, you know, turning point in my kind of collecting journey, and I had, I was like, I I kinda need to have some more aim, more direction with what I was doing and, like, what what cards do I truly like in the space?

And I I was like, what what can I do that's like a set collecting? You know, the people who kind of have longevity in the hobby seem to, a lot of times, you know, veer toward, like, set collecting.

Like, you know, I think I've I've mentioned in the past that, like, you know, watching what Nat Turner did and Spinitron, like, you know, they're two of, like, kind of people that I was like, oh, they've they really got into sets.

Like, they spent time with these sets, and they appreciate every card of every player in the set and kind of the art of the card.

And so at that point, I was like, what set do I like the most from an aesthetic standpoint and that's important for our hobby?

It's a you know? This was the first Topps Chrome that was made for, you know, any you know, for for, like, the major soccer teams, that had parallels.

So, you know, I it was this was this was, like, after, you know, doing research on my own, this was, like, the set that I I was like and I was like, what parallel originally?

Like, what parallel do I is feasible for me to collect the set on?

Originally, I was gold. By this point, nine months after I had started, like, a chase for the gold set, I was like I was like, oh, I'm gonna finish this after about a year or, you know, year and a half probably.

Like, what you know, like, should I think about doing the red? Like, at the at the time, there was a a collector in the space who had a had a pretty big bankroll, and he was pretty aggressively buying as many of the reds.

And so I was like, I don't wanna get in a bidding war with this guy who is just gonna be outbidding me.

So I was kinda at this time, I was like, I dip my toes in the red water, and at this time, I I I just started to dip my toe in, and I had I think at the time, I only had two reds, at the at the point, a point in time when this became available.

And, you know, so I was like, you know, I why not? Like, I you know, like, let me, you know, let me dip my toe in and and think about you know what you know?

And so when this came up, I was like, this this would be, like, a very good statement piece to kinda start off this run. He's, the only, you know, blown door, which is the, you know, player player of the year in, you know, in soccer.

He's the only person to win it during, like, the run of, like, Messi and Ronaldo Blondors from, like, February I can remember it was 02/2008 or '9 all the way up until, a couple years ago.

Like, they had won everyone except for Luka Modric won it in 02/2018.

So, like, so this that's he's a notable player for that reason. He plays for Real Madrid, which he's now won, like, six champions league titles with Real Madrid. And so he he's he's a legendary resume.

He finished you know, he made the finals of the World Cup, semifinals of the World Cup with Croatia, which is a relatively small, like, country, compared to a lot of the, you know, the the the enormous country, isn't it?

So yeah. He's he's a legendary player.

And so, you know, when this came up, I was like, oh, I was like, you know, wow. So I I guess so so then the context so, I think you kinda have to talk about numbers to a certain extent, when you talk about bin prices.

Hey. Hey, James. Do you wanna share just to make sure, listeners know may how many maybe talk about the the parallel structure for this set just so listeners know.

Okay. Yeah. So so this parallel structure for the set, yeah, tops has had, you know, variation.

I think they're finally trying to standardize it, but, for this set, it was a fairly limited number of parallels compared to, like, you know, modern standards.

So it was the classic super factor. In this set, the red refractor is actually numbered out of 10.

And then it was orange out of 25, gold out of 50, green out of 99, blue out of 150, and then purple out of 250, and then you had the, just the non numbered refractor and then, the base.

So, you know, kind of a a fairly you know, in some ways, that's like a perfect parallel run.

Enough to have, like, some variations so that, you know, people don't wanna chase the absolute top top, have plenty of, but it's also they're scarce enough so that you're not, like, overwhelmed by waves and diamonds and, you know, lavas.

And I can't even keep track.

I can't even keep track of, like, the type of, like, patterns they're putting on cards now, to be honest. But, so it's and and, like, as you can see, you know, these were all, like, full bleed, so it wasn't just the borders.

And so it was just kind of as aesthetic. Like, all the colors were just, like, really, like, kind of a beautiful rainbow. So, so that's so that's what it was.

I started out, yeah, with the fifth gold out of 50, and then, yeah, the red is out of 10. So it's you know, going from 50 to 10 is in terms of, you know, rarity is pretty substantial when you talk about, like, availability.

So, and that was the other thing too. It's like, you at the time when I started the gold, like, I I feel like I barely saw golds come up for auction.

Then gradually over time, it's I think there's been a build as well, and so I've seen more and more kind of you know, I think people realize that these kinda move and can sell. And if you find them, you can grade them and flip them.

And so, those have gradually become but, yeah, but reds, like, they're almost almost none sold up until this point. And that was a big part of, like, why, I was ultimately aggressive on this card. But but, anyway alright.

So to the story of this card, so, I was you know, I I've kind of been looking at the sales, you know, kind of the players in his tier that I had seen sell within this kind of time frame where like, Robert Lewandowski, which is a he was a, you know, started his career, you know, European career out with, well, I guess he started in Poland, but then he went to Dortmund in Germany, and then he went to their rivals, Bayern Munich.

And, now he plays with Barcelona just to give context. So but he's but he's a fantastic player. He he should have won a Ballon d'Or, but he had a PSA eight that sold, you know, not long before this that sold for, I think, $4,000.

It was a PSA eight. And then another sale recent to this one that I was, like, looking at when this, you know, came up was a, Neymar Junior, who's a, you know, pretty famous Brazilian player.

He had a PSA 10 that sold for 4,800. And so with those sales in mind, this one popped up at $4. 04 k, OBO. And so I was like, compared to those sales, pretty on par. And I was like I was like, that's that's interesting.

I was like, I I I don't think anybody will instantly bin this, but it's not in you know? At auction, I I could see it going for those prices, especially if, you know, the competitive juices.

And I think Nick and auction Todd always talked about this. Sometimes when, like, the juices of auctions kick in, like, what people are willing to pay at Ben, like, it's, you know, it it surpasses what a card was sitting at Ben for.

Like Yeah. And so it's just kind of an interesting dynamic. But I was pretty sure it wasn't gonna sell it immediately, but I was like, this is, like, in the realm of pretty comparable, like, players in this range.

And so I was like, it peaked my interest, and I was like, I really want to start my, you know, red collection. This is, like, in the range that, like, I think I have to start being willing to spend.

So the wrinkle, like, what and one of the reason I hesitated about this specific bin auction, it it came from a seller in China who had zero feedback.

And so I was like, I I I think unless you're, you know, a really, you know, someone who's tolerate a lot of risk, like, you have to at least pause and be like, you know, this is and I was like, okay.

I that's interesting. Like, it is on eBay. You know, so if it doesn't show up, you know, there are some recourse, you know, to getting my money back and things like that.

You know, one of my one of my, like, Instagram friends I who who does a lot of kind of, you know, sales and kinda he helps facilitate deals out of Asia.

I asked him. I was like, you know, is this would it be crazy if I, like, bin this, like, for the zero food back bidder in China?

He's like, well, UBEI is protecting you. So I was like, so I was thinking about it. You know, I think some of this was, like, playing out while I was at work, and I was a little bit busy.

And so I was kinda like, I just kinda have to, you know, I have to kinda finish work and, you know, clear my mind and, like, go home, maybe pour a glass of, I don't know, pour a glass of whiskey or something to kinda just kind of, like, clear my head just to, you know, because I mean, if 4 k is like you know, that's that's that's real that's real money to, like, kinda just, like, dive into, you know, a a card.

So, like, I I I don't like to be flippant with that that sort of price on a card.

But the funny thing about the story is it kinda played to my advantage because by the time I got home, it was one of these situations where the the seller sent out an offer to everybody.

So I was thinking about binning it at the price that was up, but he then he then he sent an offer, I think, of 3,400.

And I was just like, if I was thinking about being in this at 4,000, like, I could see someone accepting an offer at 3,400.

And so it's kind of like I I think I told you it's kind of, like, almost been adjacent. I like you know, it's like it was been as soon as, like I was like, I you know, what am I doing here?

This is a great statement piece for my collection. And, you know, as soon as I saw him send the offer, I, you know, I hit I I hit the bin on, like, his offer.

I didn't, like, counter anything. I was like, I just I don't wanna risk, like, losing this. This is, like, you know, within the realm of what I think is appropriate for this card.

And and and so, like, you know, that was kind of so it's it was kind of just kind of you know, my indecision from, like, the whole zero feedback bidder from China kind of worked into my favor.

And so, like, it was it was, I smashed Ben, but it was after, essentially, after he'd sent me the offer.

So it was like it was, ended up being a you know? And this kind of, like, started kind of my run-in in terms of, like, you know, kind of aggressively acquiring these.

So and I guess the interesting thing about this card going forward too, it's a pop two PSA 10. And the other card actually went up for auction maybe, I think, probably six months or so after this one went up.

I may have even talked to you about this before, but, the bidding behavior on it was a little bit, kind of suspicious, but it but it went up to 10.

And I and I had gotten it at 3,400, and it got paid for, and it hasn't been seen again. So someone bought it and was happy with it at 10 k, but, but I was like, oh my god.

You know, I I got it for a third of the price, and I I don't know whether this you know, the 10 k buyer got chilled or whether the suspicious kind of low feedback bidders were, like, Chinese bidders who potentially I mean, because that's what I that I have confirmed that that happens occasionally, that there are new bidders from overseas who just don't come on eBay very often who do go aggressively go after certain cards.

So that does happen, but it was, there was a lot there was some commentary on that card at the time, but then, like, you know, that's a crazy sale, but the people who dug into the bidding history were like so, you know, I guess based on that and the fact that, you know, if I had waited and tried to get that card, I would have had to pay over 10 k for it.

So felt good to get it considerably less than that.

So, you know, maybe my strategy was kind of vindicated, I guess, to a certain extent. That is, an incredible story. I love all the bin adjacent, ways we go and get cards, that I hadn't even considered when we started the show.

Was this the very first red that you picked up? It was the third red that I think I picked up. But it was it was the first one where I spent, like, pretty substantial money, getting it.

Because, like, in his kinda caliber player, it's like, you know, other than Messi and Ronaldo, like, not many had sold. And if they had, it was, like, kinda pre boom, and, like, you can't even really take those as comps.

And so you're kinda, like, similar cards with Messi like this, I know I, you know, I know, I go for you know, at the time, they were going for, like, in the $70.

80 k range. And so I was like, for you know, to get a player of this caliber for, like, one twentieth the cost of it, I was just like, you know, that's not a crazy price, to be honest.

But, but yeah. So this was kinda you know, you know, you kinda this this was kinda the point of, you know, my point of no return, I guess.

I was like, you know, I'm I'm I'm gonna go for it. I I I really think that these cards are you know, if I ever do have to let them go, I'm not gonna get crushed in the future if I have to, you know, have to let them go type of thing.

And so I, you know and I and I kinda when I I guess what it how it changed my collecting too is, like, if I'm gonna spend this money on this, there's no there's no dabbling with, like, opening boxes.

There's no dabbling with sets that I think are less, you know, desirable.

I'm like, I'm gonna kinda, like, put a lot of, you know, the do the diversity in, like, collecting to the side. And, like, if I'm gonna spend, like, serious money on a card, it's gonna be in this set type of thing.

So or if I'm gonna spend yeah. If I'm if I'm gonna dabble another thing, it's gonna be cards that are really kind of, you know, important and core to, like, how I collect. And so that was kind of a mindset shift.

I'm like, even if I see cards I like and they're going at a good price, I'm gonna, like I'm just waiting for reds. I'm gonna be patient. So it was kind of that turning point for me in that in that respect.

So Awesome card. Great story. So much detail there. I love it. Let's, move off the card, and let's just I cut pulled some sales bin sales that are soccer related, and let's get into it.

The first one I wanna talk about is back to this set, and this is a purple. This is at a $2. 50, and this is the Cristiano Ronaldo PSA 10.

This thing's sold, Fanatics buy it now, fixed price for $800 on April 22. Maybe talk about, like, we you you gave us a preview of, like, all the parallels, but, obviously, not everyone can afford to maybe play in the red waters.

But if this two fifty is kind of the the highest run they go, is $800 seem about right for one of the most popular players? Like, what's your perspective on this?

Yeah. I I kinda and when you you sent me this, like, to preview just like so I kinda was looking back because I I I don't I didn't off the top of my head know what the, the purples went for for him.

I mean, it's not so PSA, you know, collectors in general, PSA 10 just adds a little bit of so if you're going for a purple, getting the PSA 10 is kind of a x you know, the extra means more, I guess, in a sense.

Like, when you get into the red, I'm just like, I just want a copy of the red.

I PSA ten's great, but, like, I think you do get more of a pre like, premium over PSA nine, between nine and ten in the purple than you probably, as as, you know, as far as, like, a multiplier.

And so, yeah, from the set, the three biggest players for the most part, they're most collected are Ronaldo, Messi, and Mbappe.

Mhmm. Mbappe is go for probably three or four times this PSA ten. So yeah. So 800 for a guy who's far better in my opinion than Mbappe, like, you know, far you know, so many accolades already that Mbappe is never gonna be able to touch.

Like, eight hundreds 800 seems like a good pretty good price. I guess the interesting about this one is that, a couple interesting things.

I think the last one, PSA 10, that I saw had sold based on card ladder at least was probably about a, almost a year ago. I think it sold for in the 4 or 500 range. I can't remember off the top of my it was something like that.

And so this is kind of a bump up from that, but it had been a year. And, you know, you talk about this in all your auction talks, just the longer that time passes, even though it's at a $2.

50 and the $2. 50 aren't quite as scarce, you know, if it's been a year, I mean, the people like to own these. They like to you know? Yeah. 45 copies, it looks like.

45 PSA tens and the fact that only one sold in a year's while. Yeah. So it kinda, you know, kinda shows how sticky some of these cards are, you know, to people's collections, at at the prices they're going for now at least.

You know, you know, if if these you know, if you as the price increases, obviously, cards get less sticky a lot of times with cards of this, you know, pop type of thing.

But, and the one thing I I don't, there's a lot a lot of you know, soccer card community is pretty small, and a lot of times when people buy these cards, like, I don't off the top of my head know who bought this one.

One of the subsequent ones you're gonna show me, I do know who bought that one. And so, like, I I I like to pay attention to who buys cards, and I think Gunther is the one who said that on a lot of your podcasts before.

If you're gonna get into collecting things and you're paying serious money for things, knowing who's collecting cards is is pretty important to understand, like, how what the volatility for price or potential kind of, like, creep upward.

And so, like, I I'm I'm a big proponent of, like, knowing who's collecting a lot of these cards, so I pay attention to that a lot.

And I guess and for for in that respect, there are at least two or three people who collect, this set in this parallel. And I'm not a % sure whether they're collecting it in PSA tens. I think maybe some of them are, some of them aren't.

But so so I I can almost for this bin price for, like I I bet it was someone who's collecting the set in a PSA 10. And and it was just like they hadn't seen a sale in a while, and they they just needed it for for their run.

And, like you said, like, if you don't if you don't have the stomach to, like, you know, swim in kind of the, you know, the the red waters or even the gold waters, it's like, this is a it's I mean, it's a phenomenal looking card.

I mean, even the purple for I to be honest, like, I I think I think the purple's even look really amazing.

And then there are and then there's some and and there's been a slow creep of the number of people collecting, the set in the parallels and, you know, including, you know, a notable Michael Jordan collector who's started posting his PSA 10 gold set.

I don't know if you've noticed this or not, but, Cajun cardboard, Brian has he's collecting the set in the p the gold PSA 10 now. So he's kind of he jumped into the same waters that, that Seth at soccer card corner and I I I did in.

So it's there there's there's it's lots of people are, you know, kind of with the the number of parallels kind of going, you know, through the roof in modern stuff.

People are kind of you know, I I kind of seemed obvious to me that this was gonna happen, that people would go back to a set like this to kind of, you know, ground themselves in, like, collecting rather than, you know, kind of the breaking and gambling aspect of the more modern releases type of thing.

So I love it. Let's move over to this one, which I can't wait because this is your wheelhouse. This is the red refractor from the same set, Paul Pogba, out of 10, sold for $6.

99, bin smash February 28. Is this the one you have information on? Yeah. I'm I'm I'm almost positive. I know it's a a person on Instagram, c art cardboard or c art cardboard.

I I I can't remember off the top of my head. But, anyway, he's a he's a Manchester United fan, and he he he likes the set. And, if you didn't buy this copy, it was definitely another copy, but he definitely posted, this card.

I I should have looked before just to confirm, but I'm pretty sure he bought it. And it's a color match. And, we talked about Liverpool Collectors being, like, a really strong, but Manchester United probably has the most collectors.

It's just that, unfortunately, during this era has been, like, an epic downturn in Manchester United's fortunes, and so the players from, like, this era are not quite as collectible as the Liverpool Players who have, you know, won these trophies and things like that.

So, but that being said, Paul Pogba has, you know, won a world copies one.

He he won it, before he came back to Manchester United, he won, like, the the Scudetto, which is this Italian Serie A title, and and he was kinda just he was on an upward trajectory that was really, you know, fantastic, and then injuries and various things derailed it.

So, but, yeah, it's $6. 99. If I didn't so it's it's funny. I I I think this was maybe the second card. So I I bought this one maybe a month before I bought the Luca Modric, a PSA 10 like, a PSA a different copy of this PSA 10.

I I got it at auction at, like, I think just under what this one went for. But, if I hadn't had this card and it came up with this bin price, I would have immediately smashed bin on it.

And and when you showed me this one, another one and so this was, like, this was another bin smash kind of this adjacent to this.

This is, Juan Juan Mata, which is, you know, the red from the set color match, Manchester United. That was another bin smash that was kinda like this.

It came up for, I think, $200, and he's not a particularly collectible guy necessarily, but I knew with 100% certainty if I didn't press bin within an hour, it would have been gone as soon as, like, five or six different collectors saw it on eBay.

So, and one one of my Manchester United collecting friends on Instagram, he's like, if you hadn't bought the I would have hit bin so fast on this, but I think it was I think it showed up in the middle that he was he's in The UK, and I think it showed up in the middle of the night in The UK, and he was just like I was he's like he's like and he he's like, I'll pay you three times what you paid for right now.

I feel upset. I was like, not too bad. But Yeah. But that that but that's but that's like a good there are, like, Manchester United has lots has pretty strong collectors out there.

And, and a lot of the United collectors are actually kind of live in the, what we refer to as the premodern era of soccer.

Their their heyday was in the nineties and and February, and it was kind of pre parallel era. There's some cool cards, but it's, like, pre parallel. So the grading scarcity is really really get into in in that era.

But, but yeah. So that but, yeah, that's you know, it's it's a fantastic looking card with the color match and everything. And, yeah, I would have been it absolutely immediately if I didn't already have a copy of it.

So Incredible. I'm gonna in the interest of time, this will be the last one we talk about before the, last final segment here, but I'm curious.

I saw this card sell, and this is the twenty sixteen, 17 noir club signatures, Lionel Messi at a forty b g s eight, selling for 5,500 on eBay via Binsmash.

I I just, maybe talk a little bit about Messi autos and then also, like, a set like Noir, which I I don't necessarily think about soccer when I think about Noir.

And I also think about, like, Noir and, you know, it's very niche in terms of the basketball collectors who like it, but anything you got on just, like, Messi, his autos, and Noir.

Yeah. So this is, I'm pretty sure they haven't rereleased it yet. I so I think this is was a one off, and it's people love it for, for Messi, specifically. I I think the goal people really like the gold pen.

It's it's a card that's well designed for an auto too. I don't think there are a lot of cards that aren't well designed for autos, and I think it's so this is a really popular card with a messy autograph collectors.

And, you know, it's it's interesting because, the way they're numbered so they're I don't I don't they they have relatively high numbered, versions of this, so I think this was numbered out of 40.

But but it's not a set where they have lots of, like, quote, low numbered autos. So a lot of the popular cards are, like, out of 25, out of 60, out of 40.

The one that sells for the most in this set is the spotlight signatures, which is a kind of a horizontal card. And I I'm not entirely sure why, because this this one sold for 5,500, which is about on par with where they go for.

So I think this was right in the wheelhouse of, like, where you would expect this to go, which, you know, for someone to be able to bin it, I I think it was very reasonable.

But the spotlight signatures, for whatever reason, have been going for in the, like, 30 to 40 k range.

Mhmm. And they're numb and they're numbered out of 25. And I and, I've had discussions with people. I don't really understand why, like, this card, horizontal card, you know, still numbered out of 40.

It's not that far off, I guess, like, out of 25. It goes for, you know, a fifth or, you know, of the price of that. But, but, yeah, I know these cards are really popular, and these will in this price range, like, they'll they'll fly.

If if they're posted, they'll someone will buy these almost immediately. These are really popular. And and I don't know how familiar you are.

So it's also a bit of scandal controversy with messy autos. I don't know if Yes. Yes. I've heard. Yes. You've heard. Yeah. So there there are some that just look completely different than this. This is a pretty good looking one.

This looks like, what his auto is expected to look like, but his his supposedly, the rumor is his brother signed a bunch of his autos, and there's, like, a characteristic loop with the, with the l there, that that collectors just who are in the know just will stay away from.

But, but this is a yeah. This looks like a this looks like a pretty authentic auto and, just very aesthetically pleasing. So this is this is a, I you know, very reasonable, you know, bin price at this price.

I think people would be bending this all day. Awesome. Alright. The last card is something that I pulled up on eBay, and it's in your wheelhouse. And you I was curious whether it's the one I was thinking of, but I'll see.

Curious if it is because I did some I tried to do some research, and I don't know everyone you have. But I didn't see this player. And but it's still sitting there. I think the price is high, and it's, maybe maybe has been mentioned.

So maybe talk to is this a car do you have this card? I do not. I do not. This is this is the one I was like, he's gonna this would be the one he would pick. Yeah. So, this is tell the listeners what the card is for me.

So the card is the $2,017. 18 Topps Chrome, Red Refractor, Robert Lewandowski, PSA 10. And I I'm pretty sure it's a Pop one. But, anyway, it's on, eBay now through the PSA Vault account for $17,500.

And so I mentioned I think I mentioned what the PSA eight had gone for a couple years ago. That exact copy has subsequently sold, I think, more recently, for 3,000, the PSA eight copy.

So that's kind of the, the price range I'm going for. So, like, $17. 17 5 is a bit heavy. And and so the interesting thing, like, I because I I did a bunch of research.

I'm like, I was like, can I I was like, can I can I do a offer through the PSA Vault? Like, originally, it was posted with no offers available, and I was like, I'm not I'm definitely not bidding this at 17,500.

That's just yeah. It's just you know? There are people on Robert Lewandowski, so there's a couple people I know, like, if it gets if it gets to a certain price, would would probably go pretty high to to Bennett.

Most notably, I think Kevin and Cormier is the one I'm who I'm who I'm who I'm, virtually in my head staring off.

But, but, but, yeah. And so the interesting thing about eBay too is if if you post a, best offer eBay or p I'm sorry, PSA vault listing, everything is automatically rejected, below 50%.

Mhmm. So the so the only one where you would actually potentially even get a response other than auto decline would be 50% of this.

And so even 50% of this, I think, it was 8,700 or, yeah, 8,750, something like that, which I which I still think is too high.

So, I I mean, kind of like I just you know, it's on my it's on my watch list. Waiting for it to go down. Well, wonder if it'll go down.

I can't even get a conversation with the seller because it's, like, through the vault. And so it's just like I I'm, like, kinda stuck. But, In this scenario, do you just hope that maybe, like, one of the eights pop up instead?

Yeah. I mean, that that's kinda how I am. I I'm like, I'm fine. Get a eight or a nine, in any of these cards. And so I I would love for, like you know, maybe an eight would pop up or even a nine or something.

And, you know, there's been a couple instances where I was like, a a nine and a 10 kinda came up around the same time. I was like, I just how about I just you know, I I'd rather just get the nine at, like, a slightly cheaper cost.

Like, especially when you're going through buying so many of these, you're like, I you know, saving a couple thousand dollars, sugar, a thousand dollars, go from a 9 to a 10.

I'm just like, if I'm collecting the set, like, you know, I'm not gonna be doing them all as tens anyway.

So it's just but, yeah, this is this is one I you know, like, if if someone's crazy enough to kind of bin it or pay over 8,500 or over 10,000, it'll be interesting it it'd be interesting data point for me to know going forward, but, I think at this point in the market, this is definitely a heavy price that I'm not gonna be binning anywhere near this price.

I'm glad I I was doing some research, and I was like, that's the card I wanna talk about. I I also thought, I wonder if that's the card James was referencing.

Yeah. Yeah. Because it I think I think about yeah. Like yeah. But maybe a week or two before you, or a couple weeks before you sent me the the the agenda, I was like, oh god.

This popped up. This is, like, the exact conundrum when we're bidding these cards. I was like, I need this card. It's way too high. It's like this PSA vault scenario where I can't even negotiate or anything.

So well, this made for a pretty good conversation just regarding your mentality and mindset from a set perspective, not one that's readily available either. So you can follow him at mad city collector on Instagram.

James, this is fun, man. I look forward to the opportunity to do this again down the road. Yep. Thanks for having me again, and, yeah, I look forward to chopping it up hopefully in the future.