We're back. Episode two, Smashing Bin. I'm joined by John at Pack Nicholson.

John, would you describe yourself as a bin smasher? Yes. Yes. I would. What what what is it about well, I guess, would you do are you a bin smasher over an auction watcher or auction watcher over a bin smasher, or is it situational?

I think it's situational. And then I was actually thinking I think there's a difference between smashing bin and binning something.

Let's hear it. I'm a throw this at you. I think a true bin smash is instant. There's no checking of comps. It is truly, like, shoot first, ask questions later, bin first, check comps later.

You are in the moment doing it. Then I think you can bin something, which is maybe you put a little more thought into it and, you know, the, you have some reasoning.

You you do some research behind. And you're still hitting by it now, but, I do think there might be a little bit of a difference between those two.

So I wanted to float that by you. I I actually love this, and I'm glad we're getting super nerdy on this already in episode two. So I think and I I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Is the the the difference, I I've absorbed it, and I'm thinking about it. Do you think in order to this is this might be, like, a pivotal moment in this series even though it's, like, the second episode.

Episode. But do you think that in order to to smash Ben, it has to be on an item that you are seeing for the first time? Yeah. Well, you mean, like, seeing that card for the first time in general or that specific listing?

That's that's that specific listing populates in your saved searches, and you see it and you have those feelings of you know, the fun it's the additional feelings we have where it's like the alignment with team player set, parallel, all those things, and then, like, the price point.

Like, all of those forces are, like, all there in the one listing, and you're seeing it packaged in that way for the first time, and that causes you to take action.

Do you think that the smashing of the bin button is only reserved for that package that aligns with all those elements that make you feel something inside, or is it different to you? Yeah.

I think the ability to smash bin comes with having the experience and knowledge of knowing, like, this thing doesn't show up and is rare, and it's available, and the price makes sense based on my knowledge of the, you know, landscape.

I'm gonna smash it. And, like, even smash, the word smash indicates, like, a a hurriedness. You know? Like, I I have to do this. Like, I'm I'm not thinking. I am smashing bin. It is a step beyond just buying it.

So you said that, you know, you'd you'd you don't even check comps, which I think, like, I think for me, there is a lot of instinct and intuition when I'm smashing bin, and the biggest driver of the bin smash along with everything lining up to be something that feels appetizing to me is the fact that I am concerned.

And the concern is mostly self imposed and self induced, but I'm concerned that there are others that see what I see and have similar or adjacent interest.

And because I feel that way about it, somebody else certainly has to feel that way. And to me, that's where I think what you're you're getting at is the fact that, like, you don't even have time to go check out comps.

It's almost just like that price that's presented, fits within your budget, and so then you just you go take action.

Yeah. I think even even if there's already three watchers on it. You know you know the eyeballs are there. You know the other, you know, safe search degenerates are one by one clicking on that dot and looking at the listing.

And I think, like, you smash bin when, like, the market value doesn't matter to you or is irrelevant. It's you are buying it because you want the card. You need the card. Like, the like, yes.

It is great to check comps and do your research for certain purchases, but I think certain time like, in my experience, the I was for and to prep for this, I was scrolling through my eBay history and remembering, like, what I bid on, what I bought now, what I offered on.

All pretty much all my binsmashes are my, like, binder type cards. They're cards where it or it's like a bears thing or one of my main guys where I just need the card and, like, oh, $40.

Yep. Easy. Like, oh, was it a $10 card? Probably. But it did like, it didn't matter. I needed it. Yeah. So I think that the the passion drives the bin smashing, the kinda, like, those more, I don't know, personal type cards for me.

I love this, and we're gonna get into your example. But one more, and maybe we got before we talk about a success story, maybe just, like, let's reflect on some pain maybe we've had over time. And I have a question.

When I think about pain in the in not smashing Ben, I think about those instances where perhaps I waited too long and I check on my watch list and the card is, in the other category, someone gobbled it up, or I'm checking card ladder and I see that a card that was not even on my watch list that, certainly, I would have smashed been on just was listed and somebody else got to it before I could even check my phone.

What in your mind is worse? Is it worse where you're kind of wrestling around with a card that's already on your watch list and perhaps it's, like, $2,300 higher than you wanna pay so you just let it sit there?

Or is it the just the overwhelm of, oh my god. I can't believe I didn't even get a crack at this. This card was already listed and sold. Mhmm. That's a good question.

I think it's I think the one that hurts more is the one that you watched for a while, where, say, it's a $500 card and it's at 700, like, no offer, and you're just you're waiting, you're waiting, you're, you know, you hope they go down, and eventually someone just smashes it for 700, and you're like, I would have done that.

Like, I would have paid 700 for the like, it's never it depends on the card, of course. But if it's one of these ones that rarely shows up, I think those hurt because you had so much time to convince yourself or justify it.

I there's one that, like, sticks out to me that I missed, and it wasn't even, like, a card I would necessarily collect, but I remember when the 2,006 finest Randy Moss Superfractor popped up.

And it was raw, and I I saw I must have checked it the second it got listed. And it was a good price too. I can't remember, but it was very fair. And I sent it to Mikey, Mikey in the hobby.

He's a Moss guy because I'm like, check this out. And he's like, man, I he doesn't love, like, Raiders stuff and, you know, we have this back and forth. And during this back and forth, it it gets bought.

So within, you know, hundred and twenty seconds. And then we were both just like, oh, man. Like, I was like, I should've bought it. Like, why didn't I, like, should've bought it and then found, you know, in under four.

And I I believe I don't know where it ended up. I don't know if flippity got it, but I think it's it's where it should be, I believe. But, I don't know. That that one stuck out to me as, like, why why didn't I just do it?

But Oh, yes. Dude, I remember when that card hit too. And what's weird and we're gonna get into your card that you smashed, been on, and you're that you're very happy about.

But maybe a weird aside on Moss, the it's it's so odd you brought that up because I was, I was recording cool cards, and Austin posted his o six Moss Finest Gold Extractor this weekend.

And I was like, man, that card's awesome. Like, those cards are always awesome.

And I, like, went on to say that, like, out of if you had, like, a Excel spreadsheet of all of the cards that I've covered on cool cards and you, like, put a pivot table into it, like, Goldex Fractures might, like, have the most per volume, like, highest total because it's, like, every time I see one of those.

Then that, like, got me thinking about Randy Moss cards, and it's just like, o six.

Yeah. Moss is on the Raiders. Like, maybe one of the most forgettable eras of his hall of fame historic career. And I was but it's so weird because it's like, that's such a pivotal set for for collectors, and he's on the Raiders.

And then I went furthermore, and it's just like, well, 2012, prism, like, maybe the the the set of all sets in this era, and Moss is on the forty niners.

So, like, I don't know. Like, does that does you're a Bears guy, and we're gonna talk about the Bears a lot probably throughout this.

But, like, does does how do you play that out in your head? Is it, like, because the guy is not in the Patriots or the Vikings jersey, it discounts it in a way.

But then the parallel that they're in is, like, a favorite parallel. So how do you, like, stack rank those types of attributes on cards, especially when you're considering a a bin smash perhaps?

For me personally, the image is paramount. Like, if, like, I see Moss in o five, o six finest, and I see a Raiders jersey, and I'm just like, oh, Moss on the Raiders, like, bad times or just underwhelming times.

Like, it that's just right away, like, my feeling when I see those images.

And I'm not a Moss guy, but if I were to buy a Randy Moss card, I would want him in a Vikings or Patriots. But Vikings to me is what really, you know, hits the nostalgia that I'm after.

So, yeah, I think, I mean, I wouldn't say no to Superfractors or gold at like, rare cards from players maybe in not their iconic jerseys, but, you know, something about them being in the uniform that I am, you know, trying to capture in my collection is pretty big.

When I when I put myself in the shoes of other collectors, team collectors sometimes. And so if I put myself and this is really hard to do, which I'm sure it would be hard to do if you put yourself in my shoes is what I collect.

But I I'm thinking about the bears, and it's like, if I were, like, you know, singing bear down Chicago bears, collecting my sport football cards all the time, I'm not sure there there's a lot of bears from the era of us being alive that I think are really fun and cool collectible pair players, but I'm not sure there's a player that I would wanna collect more than Devin Hester because he was the best at what he did.

I mean, I saw it firsthand in the Super Bowl Mhmm. As a Colts fan. What what about, like, Hester? Right? You go to Hess Hester and, obviously, all these historic moments is embarrassed.

But, again, it's like, you go you go in some of Hester's prism stuff is in Falcon's gear. So it's like, would you not if if a Falcon's Hester gold prism popped up on eBay and with a bin smashing moment, how would you absorb that?

I think one did pop recently. It's 20 it's twenty fifteen, I think, is up on eBay, and he's in a Falcons, jersey. I think it's, like, $500. It's it would have to be, extremely good deal for me to, like, want to do that.

I just don't I can't see that fitting in the collection. Like, I have my, like, bears prism graded stuff in a very calculated order. I like the story it tells.

I like going through them. And a Falcon's jersey would just stick out, like a sore thumb. And to that point, like, the Bears like, those late ninety sets, I haven't really gotten into those because the players aren't memorable.

Because, again, like, there was a Curtis Ennis twenty four karat gold that just popped up, which actually I kinda wish I would have bought it.

It sold really quick. But I just didn't want to because I'm like, I have no nostalgia for this player.

Like, I would strictly be paying this much money for the set and its importance, which I get and I care about. But for me, it's just all about, like, did I watch the player? Did I enjoy the player?

Do I have memories of them? Like and then I can get myself to convince collect players who weren't good for the Bears, but I still have some like, I have a Kevin White gold prism that I like looking at because I was like, god.

I thought Kevin White was gonna be so awesome.

And I think most of us did. Yeah. And so I don't know. That's more fun even if the memory is not great, but that it that it's rooted in, like, this real passion I had at one point, makes it more collectible.

Man, you said Curtis Ennis, and that, like, that that got my memory going towards, man, it would be fun to, like, do a show where it was, like, all about players who were better college players than pro players and the cards that followed.

That's for that that conversation's for another day. But why don't why don't we get into the example? Let's talk about what your card is that you smashed Ben on, and, yeah, let's just talk about it.

Yeah. So the one I picked was twenty twenty four prism black finite Jalen Johnson, one of one. Yep. There she is. I mean, I it was I was looking it up January 1, so New Year's Day.

I was chilling slowly, I guess. When did you start out the New Year with a bang? Yeah. I because you might remember, prism came out in, like, December. Right? Yeah. Dude, I was just thinking about this.

I think it was, like, the end of, December, which led to a flurry of, you know, that period in between the holidays where people aren't really doing much. I just remember checking safe searches, like, every ten seconds.

Yeah. And I remember going into that release, like, I'm gonna buy any rare bear stuff that pops because at release, those first few weeks after release is when these cards are hitting the market, and that's the time to buy them.

So I had already kind of spent a like, I bought a lot of 24 Prism stuff and including I got a, like, Roma Doonese gold vinyl rookie that I was like, I didn't need to spend that much money on it, but I did anyways, and it's okay.

Like, now I'm probably gonna chill for a second, and then, of course, this thing pops up. And, I don't know. It didn't it didn't take a lot to justify it in my head because I think it was it was, like, $750.

And I remember thinking, like, random dudes, like, are selling for $500 for their fine nights. Like, that feels like it's kind of become the entry point.

I mean, I'm sure there's cheaper examples that you can find. But for any notable player at Jalen Johnson's, you know, pro bowler, yeah, he's been a one bright moment or bright spot on the bears last couple years.

I'd always wanted a big card of his, and his rookie prism stuff, he's in, like, combine gear, which just, again, with the image being important to me, like, combine gear picks just never really do it for me.

So when this popped up, all of that kinda went through my head pretty quick, and just decided to get it.

I want to there's so much I wanna talk about here. First, I wanna talk about so you got the Romadunze gold vinyl, which is, you know, obviously, one of his best cards out of Prism. Beautiful card. We most of us like gold vinyl a lot.

That, you know, the the just thinking about, like, star potential player in Rome in that parallel in rookie, like, just thinking about how the market works, obviously, like, I just know, like, you probably paid a a good chunk for that.

Now then this Jalen Johnson pops up, black finite, his best card out of 2024 Prism.

You know, some people would say, oh, first year, Nebula. I'm just like, no. Let's let's stick to the finites. I'm still ranking the finites over Nebula in 2024. That's just me.

But the these moments and this happens to all of us, where we just spend a lot of money on a card that we're really excited about, and then, inevitably, another card that's as important or maybe even more important pop up.

So our financial situation starts to get challenged a little bit because it's like, oh, we don't wanna spend if we feel bad spending that much money at a certain period of time, Talk about, like, that moment because a lot of people listening go through that, me included, in the opportunity or the willingness to smash Ben or not in the follow-up purchase.

Like, talk about that. Yeah. I think I just knew, like, I can figure it out. Like, I have some stuff I was maybe thinking of selling, and this is going to make me have to act on that.

So, yeah, I think it's you yeah. You always gotta smash bin responsibly. But I don't know. It just was a matter of I I knew I'd be able to figure it out. For, like, a finite, you just can figure it out.

Like, some something else can go. Like, something, you know, I I could chill after that until, of course, I was just waiting for, like, a DJ more finite to pop up or anyone else, but I haven't seen one yet.

Yeah. I think it was just, I kinda knew that things would work out, so I was able to do it.

How do you feel how are you feeling about now that we have some time to let this set marinate, how do you feel about 2024 Prism just in terms of the entire package?

The photography, the design, parallels, like, how does this year measure up with some of the other years for you?

It's one of my favorites. I mean, I think the design is great. I love 2013, and I like that it kinda reminds me of 2013. Something I noticed, 2012 and 2024 are the only years that have the actual team logo on them.

Like, every other year, it's just the team name written out, and I really like seeing the Bears logo on there. Like, that that little detail to me, like, kinda sets it up another level. And the finites look great.

The golds look great. I don't know. It's just I think it's a very strong year. The checklist is crazy too. There's lots of, I don't I think there's, like, five retired players for, like, each team, something like that.

I feel like it's like a 400 card set. I don't know. It's just, I think it's really well done. I haven't I don't have any nebulas, but the fact that those are in there, I think, is kinda cool.

Yeah. I think it's a great year. Final question before we move off of this first topic, and that would be thinking about this card from a team collector perspective.

You collect bears. You're very intentional about how you collect your bears cards. Where where does this Jalen Johnson twenty twenty four black finite fit within that bears collection?

Like, do you slide it in next to, another black finite you have? Is this maybe the first bears black finite in the start of a new bears collecting wing?

Talk about just because I know you're intentional with your purchases because you don't just collect every bears card, but maybe talk about where this card specifically fits into the broader picture.

Yeah. Right now, I have it ordered in, chronological order. So it's part of like, I and I have a decent amount of twenty twenty four stuff just like golds, gold vinyls.

This is the first finite. I have a 2023 DJ Moore black finite, but they're they're not right next to each other when you're flipping through.

I'd I'd like to, you know, space it out, and then you throw in, you know, the unexpected finite kinda pops up and hits you.

But, yeah, it's just any more, especially collecting bears prism stuff. I mean, gold's gold's vi vinyl and black finites.

It's like I'm going to try and get those of my guys anytime I can because, you know, then I have 2022 all the way back to 2020 and '12. Like, you know, you're a prism master. Like, there is something about them all coming together.

So, yeah, I have them ordered by year right now. Maybe one more bears question, and I'm I'm I'm going to ask this because I know there's a lot of Bears fans and collectors that listen.

I know there's a lot of Lions fans and collectors that listen. I know there's a lot of Packers fans and collectors that listen, and I know there's a lot of Vikings fans and collectors that listen.

The NFC, North is full of passionate collectors. John, where are the Chicago Bears gonna finish in that division this year?

Oh, man. That's that's tough. I had thought I had learned, my lesson of not getting into the full swing optimism of an off season of another off season Super Bowl.

That's three in a row. But I'm fully back on, and I love Ben Johnson. I think he's I like hearing him talk. He just seems like a great dude, great coach, seems smart.

I do think he's changing, like, the culture there already. It feels different. I know I said it's probably exact same thing last year, and the year before, but Matt Eberfluss was a joke.

I'm glad he's gone. It's a new year, new day, new dawn. Yeah. I'm hyped. I think I mean, first off, I'm taking over eight and a half wins.

I think that's what they're at, right now. And I don't know. That division's a beast. I think Detroit is good, but I also do think Ben Johnson was a big part of that success.

And I wonder if they kind of I feel like last year was supposed to be their year, and now it's, you know, it's like they had the a good season, then they had, like, the dream season, and then they were supposed to go to the Super Bowl last year, but they didn't.

And if they don't get off to a good start, I could see not the wheels falling off, but maybe they're not a 14 win team again.

I don't know about JJ McCarthy and the Vikings. I think they're projected to get last. And, I mean, Caleb Williams is undefeated at Lamo, so I know the Bears have the Packers number. So I think Bears might take the division.

That's that's what I'm hoping might happen. That's that's what I was looking for. Everyone get their, information. And three NFC North Champs. That's that's we'll say it right there. I I wouldn't expect anything less.

The city of Chicago is going to go nuts. Let's get into some of the cards that I think would be fun to talk about players and, that got been smashed, this past week. The first card I have up here is just like a massive scam.

Like, I clicked this thing on card letter, like, literally took took up the whole screen. But it's the ninety seven Flair Showcase Tim Duncan row zero attitude Attitude 50 rookie PSA ten pop 21.

It sold for $3,699 on April 4. The last sales of this card, we had in or in September or let's go to April 1. We had an April 2022, it sold for 2,500. Then in September, of 2024, it sold for 3,600.

All time high, 5,200 in March of twenty two, which was total, bubble territory. But let's start with the car like, these cards, the showcase, I know there's different levels, different rows.

What what do you make of these cards? And it can be from a basketball, football, whatever perspective you wanna talk about. How do you how do you like Flair Showcase legacy or not?

Like, what do you think about the set? I do. I love how these cards look. Very nostalgic. Remember a lot of these images as a kid. I do think the because I'm not well super well versed in, like, late nineties basketball.

So there's, like, four versions. Right? It's, like, row zero, one, two, and three, and then all of them have their own, like, parallels. Yes. Yes. Crazy that, like, people will, like, rip Select a part for doing that for normal parts.

Like, this is still very collectible in the late nineties. Because, yeah, there's four one o ones and then also four or a thousand of the numbered versions.

I'm curious what, like, a nine does because, like, if this is three in the threes because that seems high for actually, I don't I don't know anything when it comes to this.

Like, Dunkin' rookies. Okay. 1,100 for a nine. Yeah. 1,100. That's not as big of a jump, I guess, as I would have thought with it being a 10.

Would do you do you how do you think about I know, like, this isn't necessarily your bag here, but, like, in terms of importance of rows, or even thinking about select importance of rows, like, do you would you prioritize a specific row or specific level over the other one, or is it just kinda based on would it be based on appearance for you?

I think it'd be maybe a combo. I think I would be drawn to is there a vertical version that's, like, equally desired or collected even if it's not like, is row three the best?

Is that or row zero is the best? I I think again, not necessarily my tier, but row zero, I feel like most collectors gravitate towards.

And I'm always like, is it the imagery? Is it the aesthetic? Is it the fact that it's the first, if you're going in order, the first level?

Those are the questions that I ask. Got it. I think the image is cool. I personally love vertical cards, though. So I think the horizontal part of it is a drawback to me. But the Mojo pattern of it all looks awesome.

I think and I guess, like, I'm searching right now. I think this is the only one that's numbered, though. Is that right? Like, row 0 is numbered to two fifty, and row one doesn't look to be numbered. Yeah. Sorry.

Oh, I thought I no. I thought I could've I thought they were all, Because I just searched, showcase Duncan row one PSA nine, and there's one that sold for, like, $90, which to me is not like, a number Duncan rookie, I don't think would.

Do do you do you think that for is accomplished as Duncan is, he always seems to be, like, one of those players that, like, accomplishments and collectability are off kilter where it, you know, it just seems like there's should be more people who are collecting Duncan when there's not.

Have you ever thought about just, like, Tim Duncan and just, like, all he did and how he maybe lacks the volume of collectors as some of the other best players of all time?

Yeah. I mean, it's crazy when you look at his accolades, and why he isn't as collectible. And I think, I mean, that's something you know, that's the age old question.

I feel like it's been asked before, but I don't know. I think there's something about, like, highlights drive collectibility, and Duncan doesn't maybe have those signature, like, close my eyes and picture Tim Duncan.

You see him on the elbow, like, posting a you know, and having impeccable footwork and, like, getting a bank shot, but I don't know.

I don't see like, I can't think of his signature moments, I guess, in a way that I can think of even less accomplished players.

Like, Allen Iverson never wanna chip, but the crossovers, the step over, you know, the just everything about him, I think, drives some more collectability.

And I'm not saying that's fair, but I've also noticed that in football where and I've done this myself where I've been like, this guy's underrated or, like, his stats like, Curtis Martin.

Why aren't more people collecting Curtis Martin? Like, look at all the yards. Like, I'm gonna get Curtis Martin stuff because eventually people will come around.

And it's like, no. They're not gonna come around. If people haven't come around for thirty years, why are they going to just, like, all of a sudden be, you know, enamored by these, stats that they didn't care.

I think it's just like, again, like, the flashy players tend to, like, drive collecting. And not I don't think it's fair, but Duncan just I don't think has that quick the pizzazz as, like, some other guys.

Yeah. I I'm not sure today that the kind of the the bank shot, would be making the IG reels as opposed to maybe a killer crossover.

But, yeah, I think that's an interesting way to look at it, and it just accolades, accolades, accolades, and championships, championships, championships is what seems like in the moment, what people are always talking about in terms of, like, prices being baked in and what matters most.

But I think it's just interesting, and it's a whole another topic for another day zooming out and looking at some of these players and comparing their prices.

And it's it it appears that that the the moments or the perceived memory of certain players and their impact, outweighs, any hardware, that they have in terms of overall collectability.

Yeah. And I think I was thinking about, like because I thought before I would I do love Tim Duncan and think it'd be cool to get a card of his, but for my type of collecting, like, I'm very, like, era focused.

Like, if I were getting a Tim Duncan card, it's because I'd also want to get, like, the same card of, like, a Dirk or Kobe.

Like, these guys that when I close my eyes, I think of played with one team for twenty year like, they were the west. It is kinda crazy that, like, Duncan, I think he did twenty years with the Spurs, or he got close.

I mean, he was up there. I know Dirk did and Kobe. But those three guys, same team for nearly two decades. Like, they just were winning fifty, sixty games every single year.

Like, there's something one day when I get more into basketball, I could see myself, you know, getting a card like this, but then I'd also then, of course, want, you know, a Dirk and a Kobe to pair with it.

Why is when you're opening up new lanes, it's really hard to just have one card of a player.

Why do you think pairing is so critical, for you and your collection? Because to me, I'm trying to get back to, like, that time, and getting back to, like, that time is looking at more than just the one player.

Like, I wanna, like, even looking at this Duncan, I wanna already see other players, like, version of this card.

And just it's like, oh, yeah. Remember when Duncan looked like this on the Spurs? Well, what about Michael Finley on the Mavericks? Like, who, you know, who was he going head to head with?

Like, what was the NBA like in 1997, I guess, is what I would then want to accomplish with my collection so that I I guess I'm always building a collection hoping for the day that, like, someone's like, let me see your collection and Why do we do why do we do that?

What like, I'm I think about that a lot, man.

It's like, well, if one day somebody I know from the Internet comes to my house and, like, I get to, like, show them my cards in person, I could, like, tell this wonderful, beautiful story, and it's because I collected it that way.

When it's like, no, man. No. But I'm trying to, like, make sure my kids don't get ahold of my cards. My wife could care less about my cards, and it's just kinda just me and my cards. But I can relate with that in a big way. Yeah.

It's like I could, you know, probably, like, once a week, I feel like I'm able to, like okay. I have two hours. I can get my cards out and kinda, like, lay them on my desk in my office and maybe tinker with the ordering here and there.

And it's like my wife will walk through the room, and I'm like, you you curious about 2,002 finest? And, like, the spread that I've got here is pretty impressive. Come let me talk to you about these cards.

They're not here in the list. Okay. Let's move over to the reigning MVP, Josh Allen. Twenty eighteen is rookie optic, hollow rookie autographs, add a 99, PSA nine, sold on April Fool's Day of this year for $2.

Someone just decided to, smash bin on that. We've got a pop $20. 32, 20 with 26 higher. The previous, sale was in September of this for 1,400. So $14. 55 pre season or the season had just kicked off.

Allen wins MVP. Now this card, which there's in the modern or ultra modern era, there's be considered a a lot of these copies. Someone just decided, you know, a week ago just to smash Ben on this.

Maybe talk about Josh any Josh Allen and, obviously, he got some hardware this year, not necessarily the hardware he wanted or maybe the hobby wanted him to have, but maybe talk about just, like, Josh Allen, his market collecting, and just the idea that someone smashed.

Been on a somewhat liquid card of his and, paid up more than, you know, anyone has over the last, you know, ten months or so. Yeah. I'm big Josh Allen fan. I'm rooting for him.

I feel like the him to Mahomes, Peyton to Brady arc is gets more and more solidified kinda every year. With Alan is exciting and putting up crazy numbers and always, like, right there, but just can't get over the hump.

So I'm definitely rooting for him. I think it'd be a great story to see the Bills even get to the Super Bowl. Then I love this I love twenty eighteen optic. I was thinking about this.

And I actually owned this, but the red version numbered out of 50, this exact same card, like, three years ago, four years ago. It was this was back before, again, I had, like, my focus, but I wanted a big Josh Allen card.

And I had that one for a while, and I loved it. I love the image on the images on 2018 optic. Like, 2017 and 2018, those, like, rookie like, the posed portraits.

I don't know. It they remind me of, like, early fifties tops baseball, clean borders. They just I don't know. This looks like a sports car to me, like, the way a rookie card should, and a great auto.

Optic is sick. I mean, I don't know. Like, they 2018, especially, I love how this looks. Like, Lamar's, Saquon's in this class, and 2017 is pretty close to, like, the look of it with Mahomes and kind of the, like, striped border more.

But, yeah, I mean, Josh Allen, I think I can see why someone would bin this, especially if they're sitting there convincing themselves they need it.

I can see how anyone can bin any type of card. But, yeah, I mean, great card. The the auto and I'm not a massive auto guy, but I I observe, collector behavior, and I observe, collector sentiment.

And it seemingly over the past three or four years, like, there's been a caveat of almost every Panini autograph, because it's been, you know, someone being complaining because it's sticker based.

Optic has always had been a Chromium product, but they've had on card autos.

But it does just doesn't seem like the the market is, like like, has chosen Optic to be, like, the Chromium based autograph, rookie autograph, like, maybe, like, in baseball, like, you know, Bowman Bowman Chrome autos are just, like, everything.

But, like, the this card, like, has all of those elements, and even the parallel structure, you can mirror it over to, like, maybe what Bowman Chrome baseball is doing, and there's different parallels.

But the, you know, the autograph is on card. It's got the rated rookie stamp on there too, which is, like, similar to, like, Bowman first.

But, again, like, no one I don't know. I just I never hear anyone, like, prospecting optic rookie quarterback autos, but I don't know. Like, why why is that?

And what do you make of just, like, maybe the on card autograph nature that Optic offers? Yeah. I think I mean, I love it. And these were these were reasons why I bought the one I had because I remember thinking, like, this is on card.

It's numbered. It's like a awesome looking card, good auto. Eventually, like, the market will catch up and realize, like, this is his best card or best auto card. It's the these are the random ideas in my head.

But over the years, I've also realized, like, buying something that I think I'm, like, early on and that, like, everyone the market will find out about is not a way to go about it. Bad way. Bad. No.

Just and, like, we've all been there. Yeah. Because guess what? The market might, but it's gonna take ten years. It's gonna take, you know, a long time for these shifts to happen in people choosing to start collecting something else.

And if you're trying to, like, buy to sell, it's not gonna be, like, this instant thing where all of a sudden, like, optic autos are the most coveted.

Because I feel like contenders is probably still more valuable. I don't know. I think, like, there's already an auto set that collectors who want the rookie auto go to.

Like, why bring in another one? If I I I don't know. I just think, but I agree with you in it being on card on a Chromium product is hard to pull off and look good, and these look great.

I think even just like the subtle thing where they kind of, like, put the white behind the auto, like, where they faded out the picture instead of, like, a sticker.

It it just Very nice. Yeah. It's just a If I was an auto guy, I'd be all over these because they look good to me. They look great. Yeah. Yeah. Before we move off of Alan, where where do you where do you think Optic sits?

Optic football sits, you know, as we Panini loses a license and it goes over to tops, like, do you think people are gonna remember Optic, or is it gonna be collectible?

Like, what do you think? I think so. I think you've got, as far as the Chromiums, the big three of like, they're in the big three.

I think that's counts for something. Right? Like, Prism and Select. Rank your how do you rank your big three? I think it's Prism Select, Optic Optics Bronze.

But, Why is that for you? Because I think it's the, like, like, legacy. Like, prism and select have gone on longer and just have the yeah. I've that that's that's it. I mean, prism, I think, is number one. I just like prism.

I like that it's the flagship set that came out in 2012 and has the legacy and then Select right behind it. I don't think that, like, Select has, like, hurt itself with the way that it has been these last couple years.

Like, I don't think the overproduction and, like, tons of levels and parallels, like, hurts previous select years. I think it, yeah, diminishes maybe the current product a little bit.

Like, if it's a card you want, but there's, you know, thousands of copies of it, yeah, maybe it makes you want it less. But that's not gonna not make me want a 2013 Select card or a 2014 Select card anymore any less.

But, yeah, I think Optics just yeah. It came out, what, 2016. So it's just it's still catching up, but and then I was looking through, like, other years, and they haven't done any like, the designs haven't been crazy.

Like, I think these rated rookies are very clean for, like, a rookie card, but a regular 2021 select, even like a gold optic gold or 2021 optic gold isn't I don't know.

They're just kinda they're fine, but, it's not been a set I've bought a ton of, but I'm sure sure one day I'll get there.

And once I run out of prism and select I I don't even really buy that much select football, honestly, but I focus it's Prism. I'm just buying Prism is all. We're we're Prism sims. It's sad.

It is. We're move moving over to a Jokic card. Twenty nineteen Panini one and one. Timeless moments, auto, of Jokic, PSA 10, auto 10. This thing sold for $1,850 on April Fool's Day as well. People are smashing Ben on April Fool's Day.

So this is the all time high sale for this card. It has sold for $1,400 in November of twenty twenty three. March '20 '20 '4, it sold for $1,500, and then, obviously, this sale. I mean, dude, this guy, like, thirty twenty twenty game.

He had a 60 the other night. I just the the, dude, the Pacers beat the Nuggets in Denver last night. I watched the whole game, and we haven't beat the Nuggets in Denver in forever.

And, you know, kids dude, I just like, before we got on this, I watched the whole game, but I was like, it the way he plays, it's like, you you you can watch him play, and then you can look at his stats afterwards, and you're like, I can't like, that's unbelievable because I can't believe he just did that.

It just didn't even seem that way. But I looked at the box right before we hit record. Hit 41, 15, and third 13 just, like, casually.

So this guy is, I mean, I know, like, SGA's had just probably will be the MVP, just an insane year. But to me, like, he is the best player in the NBA, and, you know, second is probably not even close.

So I say all that because it's fun to talk about, Jokic. And, again, he's another player where the the collector base is, like, catching up.

Like, it has taken him to have triple doubles, like, making people numb having triple doubles, winning a championship for people to, like, finally be like, alright. Yeah. He's pretty good. I should probably collect his cards.

But let's talk about maybe just, like, what do you think about, like, the appearance of this card and the bin smash, and then any thoughts you wanna talk about just of Jokic and just maybe his overall collectability?

Yeah. First off, I love these cards. The timeless, demons, autos, these are sick. Like, just very cool. I had great idea, and I like the marker they use for the autos.

Yeah. I'm surprised this is only $1,800. I would for a ten ten, I would have thought this would be a lot more. I don't know what the is it a It's it's the it's the first year of Panini one and one as well, which is another point.

Yeah. This is no. This is a sick part. I think Jokic, it's not the same as Tim Duncan, but maybe kind of where his highlight like, I think Jokic has more highlights than a Tim Duncan.

Like, Jokic is he has one of those, like, computer brains that, like, a LeBron, a Luca, you know, the like, his passing.

I love his passing. I love great passers, and he, is one of them for sure. His scoring, though, yeah. I don't know. Like, he is the most quiet scorer where, like Dude.

40 points. I'm like, how'd you when did he get 40 points? Dude, he he it's crazy because I was, like, definitely, like, watching him, like like a hawk last night. And it's like he is a facilitator first.

Like, he's looking to get the ball in motion and get the guys going. But, you know, the Pacers, like, hit two threes in a row, and he's just like, you know, fuck it. Like, I I am going to go, and I'm gonna go score in this play.

And every time they're one of those moments where, like, the team goes on, like, a little bit run, he makes the decision. Okay. It's time for me to score, and he can do it every time.

And it's just like, that ability is man, it's so hard to move from, facilitator to primary score, and he just, like, toggles back between those two roles, like, seamlessly whenever the team needs it.

And I just think that's special. Yeah. And I heard it on a podcast, and now I can't unsee it. But, someone said he, like, used to play water polo, which I don't know if that's a founded rumor.

But watching him play basketball, he looks like he's in a pool playing water polo or just water basketball against other kids where he's kinda, like, standing above everyone.

Like, he holds the ball up and no one can touch it, and then, like, he can just see everything, and then he always does the right move.

And I don't know. Yeah. Like, I love watching him in a way that I didn't like. I never loved watching Tim Duncan. Like, I didn't get the same joy of watching Tim Duncan as I do from watching Jokic.

And I think that was, like, maybe the Spurs had the more, like, team thing going, which also maybe hurts Duncan a little bit where it Duncan wasn't undisputedly the number one reason they were winning all those games necessarily, whereas Jokic and Denver, I think Jokic is like he's clearly gonna win finals MVP every year if, like, if they win a championship.

Like, it's hands down Jokic, whereas Duncan only won maybe two, I think, out of his, like, five titles. So, yeah, Jokic is Jokic is sick.

This is an awesome card. Alright. Last one here, and I had to do this for you, as a Bears fan. We saw a 2015 Walter Payton Gold Prism first copy got just freaking been smashed April 3 for a thousand bones. Raw copy of this card.

You've got sweetness. I love the 20. I believe this is his first, gold prism card, but I wanna know because I understand the post playing days of it all, but I also understand, like, Walter Payton's only got so many playing day cards.

And I wanna know, like, when you see this card, like, how does it make you feel as a Bears fan? Are you pro post playing day cards in situational, scenarios like this?

Maybe unpack that. I'm pretty anti. Anti. Post post playing days. And and not in a I think this card looks awesome, but I don't see it and think, like, I need it, if that makes sense.

Like, it I'd I would like to have it. I would buy it if it was the right price. A thousand dollars to me is crazy for, like, a just gold prism.

But I guess if it's his first ever gold prism, then I get it's Walter Payton, but I don't know. I've found that those hobby rules that are kind of out there, like, when I stick to them, it's a much more enjoyable experience for me.

If I start to make exceptions, the whole thing could fall apart. So currently, yeah, I don't really I don't have any post playing day stuff.

It's not to say it will never happen. I don't even have a Walter Payton rookie. I had one at one point. I sold it just because they're such a comp like, easy card to acquire.

But that's actually my national plan. I've decided I wanted to get a really nice Peyton rookie and a really nice Gail Sayers rookie. Just, like, go in and try and find some of the better copies that I can.

Because, like, vintage at the national, like, I've never tried that before. And I'm like, this would be fun to just scour, and maybe I get a PSA four at this booth, and then I'm able to slowly work it into a PSA six at this next one.

But, yeah, post plan days, I, especially with Prism, once it starts getting into the sets, I really love.

Like, yeah, I probably like, even the more I look at this, like, I kinda want it, but, I, yeah, I don't know. For now, I'm sticking to just, like, current active days.

Like, you had to be playing during those years for me to collect the cards. Sometimes the unwritten rule of the hobby is good to follow, and I appreciate your position on that. And I think this was a good, batch of cards to talk about.

And before we get out of here, we've got the surprise segment where I'm gonna show a card, and you are going to have to decide whether this is a a card that you think is worthy of a BIN smash or not.

And so I tried I tried to personalize this. I tried to customize this for each guest, and I'll I'll lead with this.

I know you're a running back guy. You like to collect running backs. So maybe before I show the card, talk about why you collect running backs and how you collect running backs. I've just always loved a running back.

I think when I was coming up watching football, early two thousands, like, running backs were the team. And so a chase I started doing was rushing leaders. Like, I wanted a really cool card of anyone who ever led the league in rushing.

So I have a lot of those type of guys, and then that's kind of bled into just, like, fantasy studs. Like, I've kinda been picking up more like Le'Veon Bell, Ezekiel Elliott, Alvin Kamara, those types of guys.

They're just they're just awesome, man. I also you know, years ago, when I was back in the hot like, no one was buying running backs or skill players, and it didn't make sense to me.

I was like, why not collect running backs? And I remember seeing Jesse flippity, cards just being so focused on receivers. I was like, that's awesome.

Like, why, like, I'll do that for running backs. So I don't know. It was nice to see Saquon and Derrick Henry kinda bring back some, kinda like, because it felt like running backs were going extinct there for a second.

Everyone was getting rid of, like, the feature back, and everything was running back by committee.

But seeing couple workhorse running backs emerge, this last year, was nice. Okay. You said workhorse, and you took the words right out of, these my mouth here when I was making this selection.

But here we go. We've got the twenty thirteen finest Stephen Jackson, super fracture, one of one, BGS nine five. Now he's not in Rams gear. Yep.

That's He's in Falcons gear. This thing is on eBay for $8. 99 99. What when you see this card and you see the price, like, just share what's going on in your head. Yeah. You said it first thing was I wish he was in a Rams uniform. Yeah.

Steven Jackson's another underappreciated guy, but I think he's one of the I think he had one, like, really strong numbers year, but then it was just, like, a steady, like, eleven, twelve hundred yard seasons, like, kind of the Curtis Martin, path.

But even though Curtis Martin didn't win a rushing title once, Yeah. I'd want Rams gear. I do love these later finest super fractures. Twenty thirteen isn't my favorite.

900 doesn't seem terrible based on how I've seen. Just kind of one on ones get sold and resold and relisted for crazy prices. But, yeah, I wouldn't bin this for 900, but I feel like in the, like, fours, fives, maybe.

I don't know. What do you think? I I think Stephen Jack's like, first, the player. I think Stephen Jackson is, full it's weird, and I'd have to, like, you know, look at his numbers.

But it he did he feels a lot like, a Curtis Martin of his era in a way where especially when it came around, like, draft time fantasy draft time.

Like, you know, he's like a top five guy, but it was like, you didn't really wanna, like, draft Steven Jackson there because it was like he wasn't gonna be super flashy. He was just gonna, like, get the job done.

So I think, like, he maybe doesn't get the love because he just kinda showed up and, you know, got the the job done, but, like, there was not a lot of flash to it. So that's just a little bit on him.

I I do appreciate him and value the years he played. I think for me, the Falcons side of it is a little bit of a drawback because when I close my eyes and think about Stephen Jackson, I definitely think of him as a Ram.

And then just the later years' finest 2013 to 2015, I would say it just falls off a little bit for me. I used to own a 2013 Philip Rivers, super fracture FIDA super fracture, and I don't don't have it anymore.

I didn't hang on to it. So it's not it's not necessarily my favorite year. Although, like, it reaches this point where people are gobbling up finites and super fractures or whatever.

And with a player like Steven Jackson, he's people of our age will forever remember him, especially because of fantasy. And I just I find it interesting where it's under a thousand bucks, and it's just it's, like, sitting here.

And I'm almost, like, wanted to ask the sellers. Like, well, if if you just moved it to, like, $7. 50, would it sell? Like so I think it's one of those cards that, like, if you tweak the price a little bit, it might be gone, soon.

Yeah. Or open up for offers. I don't know why everyone doesn't or best offer. Like, you don't have to take it just to get the the combo going.

I will say if that were Matt Forte, I would bin it. Like, in, like, no doubt. And I'd say I bet Steven Jackson has better career numbers than Forte, if I'm just guessing. Or I bet they're actually pretty similar.

But Well well, can can you, maybe this is a fun part to closing out this episode because you mentioned the if this were Forte, and I'm guessing, obviously, because you're a Bears fan and a collector.

But, like, dude, I've met a lot of Bears fans and a lot of Bears collectors since starting this this this content and the stacking slabs. And, dude, everybody is obsessed with Matt Forte.

He's like to Bears fans, he's like it's like you're it's like you're Barry Sanders. Like, everybody loves him and everybody collects him. What is it about Matt Forte that every Bears fan just can't get enough of?

He was just that guy for so long through yet another stretch of disappointing Bear seasons. I mean, he came in o eight and then teamed up with Cutler. Cutler came the next year, in 02/2009, and I don't know.

I just think he was so consistent and reliable, and it was every year you're getting, like, 1,800 all purpose yards and nine touchdowns or, you know, what, 10 touch he wasn't a big touchdown score, which I think hurt hurt a little bit.

But, yeah, he was just steady. And, like, ten year he was probably there, I think, ten years, ten seasons, maybe eight, nine. But, he was so steady. He was very likable and just consistent, consistent production.

And then since him, there hasn't really been like, David Montgomery was a couple year like, no one has lasted, like, an eight year career as the number one running back for a team. I, you know, I think that's pretty memorable.

I think any team, you start to become fond of a player who's been there that long and is like that guy. So, yeah, he's he's definitely loved. I keep telling John as he's buying these cards of rushing leaders per the per years.

I'm waiting for that post where I see a Jonathan Taylor card because he did win rushing twenty twenty one rushing champ. I'm waiting for that moment to see, John post a Colts card and that of my favorite Colts players.

I've I've put out searches. Like, I'm watching, but I I've come to terms with I won't because I have a finite of Ezekiel Elliott and Josh Jacobs.

And I'd love if JT finite, but I don't think Hey. Don't don't push yourself to I don't think that's possible. So I'll settle for probably a gold at some point. But no. JT's sick.

I would collect like, if I were Colts fan, I'd collect him. Like, what a just stud running backs. Like and, again, like, he's already been there probably five, six years. I feel like he's becoming a Colts, you know, like, staple.

I I never never never wanna see him leave. And hey. I'll take well well, in this episode there, I'll take it. A a Bears fan complimenting a Colts fan on a player that's on, his team will take that as a w.

You can follow him at Pack Nicholson. John, appreciate you sharing your bin smashing stories and going through some cards. Looking forward to doing this again down the road. Yep. Thanks a lot.