We're back. Smashing Ben. This is a good story. I'm excited. I we've probably talked about it in the stacking slabs archive somewhere, but it'll be nice to feature it.

I think it's a really good story. I am joined by my good friend Drake at Drake's PC. Maybe playing a little hurt today, but I think maybe on the mend is we we we like to say.

Drake, should we call this your, your sick game or or how are you feeling going into this one? We'll just call this the recovery episode or something like that.

You know, it was a, it was a rough Friday morning for me last week. Got Got hit with the stomach virus coming home from a work trip, and we'll spare the listeners the details, but let's just say it wasn't pretty.

Should, there there's plenty of, content in this episode where I'm sure we'll dig in and talk wrestling, but I just wanted to say happy WrestleMania week to you because it is WrestleMania weekend.

For all you nerds out there who like wrestling, like Drake and I, I'm sure all you can do is look forward to this weekend.

But I wanted to make sure at the top of this episode, I wanted to extend a happy WrestleMania week to you. Absolutely. Well, happy WrestleMania week back. It's it's kinda funny.

You know, I woke up this morning, and I was thinking about that. And, you know, of course, speaking with you and, it's WrestleMania week and I'm I'm excited for you because you get to go there, you get to experience it.

And, you know, the the other thing that's been on my mind too around WrestleMania is, you know, you you you read on social media about a lot of noise and people are like, you know, they're bagging on Triple H saying that the build hasn't been great.

And it's going to be a terrible WrestleMania and things like that.

But in my mind, I kind of think the opposite because I can think of past WrestleMania is where there's been these huge builds and you're thinking, man, this is gonna be the greatest show I've ever seen.

And then you kinda leave at the end of it. You're just like, it's kinda just okay. You know? So, yeah.

I mean, we could be in for surprise. I I'm I don't know. I I probably lean towards the side of, like, being positive about the industry more times than not because, like, this is, like, time away from the busy hustle and bustle of life.

So if it's stuff I don't like, I just don't care to waste my breath on it. But I'll say this.

Like, we we've traded DMs. There's a lot that I'm looking forward to, but just the the the the Cody and the Cena of it all, like, you know, when you see Cody on his rise, it's been very much like white meets meet babyface.

He's doing the types of things Cena did when he was champion, and, obviously, Cena had his turn, and they've been trading jabs back and forth.

But, like, if if I didn't like anything else on the card, which there's plenty that I do like, to me, like, the the Cody, Versina, and that match, and what's gonna happen next is enough to keep me, interested now and then probably for the foreseeable future.

Oh, for sure.

The the, the the war of words between those two guys has been phenomenal. You know, I'd I'd like many say it's you know, I I was hoping we'd see a little more in person interaction leading up to it with John Cena and things like that.

So hopefully, we see a little bit more of that this week, but I'm excited to see where that goes because, you know, whichever one wins, they can go in a lot of different directions.

I think if Cena wins, you know, certainly, he's he he holds the record, and I think we see a good program coming out of that. But no, I think it's gonna be great.

I'm interested in the in the triple threat, you know, with Rollins and Punk and Roman. What's Paul Heyman gonna do? You know, the swerve would be for him to go with Rollins and kind of swerve them all and yeah, it's gonna be exciting.

So looking forward to it. Before we move off this and we'll get into bin smash, I just gotta find find out from your end.

You are a collector of the great one, The Rock, the final boss, and we have not necessarily seen him, since, you know, the the last scene with Travis Scott and Cena turning heel and Cody on the ground.

It's hard to imagine that the final boss doesn't play some sort of pivotal role in all of this. But do you think keeping him off the TV until this weekend is and I'm assuming he's got we've gotta see him at some level here.

But are you do you think keeping him off TV and then maybe getting him back, whether it's on SmackDown or just throwing him right into WrestleMania is is a good move?

Or how have you been thinking about just The Rock and the role he plays this weekend?

Yeah. I mean, it's been interesting build. I mean, it kinda like the same thing we're seeing that you thought you would have seen him more leading up to their Super Bowl of wrestling.

Right? But, but I think leaving him off, you know, you hear the saying absence makes the heart grow fonder. And I think sometimes you can get too much of a good thing on there.

And so I think, you know, leaving people wondering and waiting and seeing what's gonna happen. I fully expect we'll see we'll see the rock at some point this week and I'm excited for it.

But, you know, based on his latest Instagram story, you know, when he shows up with the new Japan pro wrestling shirt, it could be he's, he's been a little preoccupied on the business side of things as well.

Yeah. They he tends to be very, intentional with almost everything he does. And obviously, he likes to get the internet nice and riled up.

So it'll be interesting to see the fallout of that, but maybe to segue, I got a question for you, Drake. Would would you consider yourself a bin smasher? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

What what what if you think about when we talk about this a lot in the different buying formats, auction, you know, make an offer, bin smash, how would you obviously, all of them kinda create their own different experience, and they're different.

It's very situational.

But if you think about just, like, smashing bin over the course of your time as a collector, maybe for you, what is, like, something that really gets you to not even to, like, drown everything else out, the world slows down.

What gets you to, like, make that decision in that moment as opposed to maybe playing the waiting game and some of the other buying formats that, we partake in?

Yeah. It it it's interesting. And then one thing I wanted to bring up from your, last week's episode with John, you know, when you talked about there's just bidding a card and they're smashing bin and there's like two different things.

And I think it's important to note that that was probably one of my biggest takeaways listening last week because I'm like, yeah, you know, I've I've smashed bin a few times and there's some where I I see the bin and I'm like, do I wanna do it?

Let me get Brett's opinion. Let me get Joey's opinion, somebody else. Let's get all these opinions and just make sure I'm thinking, you know, and then you hit bid.

And that's that's two totally different things. But I think there's a few things and and I pulled out a couple different examples just to share and you know we're not going to talk about these too in-depth on this episode.

But you know, I think back recently I saw the, the SYKOSID twenty twenty four Prism WW Black Finite popped up and it was for like $4. 99 or best offer. And I'm going, gosh, it is a PSA nine.

I'm going, this is his only black finite. I've got a family connection because my aunt and uncle live next to him. You know, that sort of thing. And I'm like, it's like $500 for a black finite of like psycho SID.

You know, this is the only Psycho SID card I'm gonna have. It's debatable as if it's best card or not. You know, is it post playing days? Right? That that's something. But it's just a cool looking card.

And I and I and I went and I I I kinda I told you about it and I asked about it. Well, then I clicked on the make an offer thing just to just to see because I always like to see if there's offers available.

You know, people making an offer and I clicked on make an offer and it said two competing offers. Right? And so I'm going, well, gosh, if I go offer like $4.

25 or whatever it was, maybe the guy accepts, maybe not, but then if not, somebody else may come in and like smash bid and then I would be really upset if I missed out on the card for $75.

And so that's kind of what one one thing that I weigh in my mind and so that that is a card I ended up smashing Ben is I will go look and see at the time if it offers an option.

I'll look and see if there's other offers on the card. And so, so there was that piece of it.

I also sent a message to the seller and I know you and I kind of differ in this but I'm one of those people where I always like folks to understand like the why I want a card and so this was actually I explained in my Instagram post when I posted the the the Drew Brees twenty eleven finest super this past week is I you know I as a collector I just want folks to understand the why because I think the hobby is so transactional and I I personally don't like the transactional aspect of the hobby I love the relational aspect of the hobby.

And so, you know, you're yeah, this is some random person on eBay or whatever, but I just want them to know why I want the card and why I'm interested in the card. And so I think that helped, helped along in the process.

So that's one thing I will do is if there's no offers on the card and I feel like that I may have a little bit of time on my side, I'll reach out to the seller and just say, Hey, you know, appreciate you making this available.

I'm interested in it. Here's why. Here's why I want it. You know, would you accept this? And so I know this kind of gets away from smashing bin and things like that.

But that's just it's just one of the things I weigh when I'm deciding do I make an offer or do I smash bin. So that's that's the first example. And then I give just one more quick example.

The other one was the, Peyton Manning two thousand three Topps Chrome Gold X Factor PSA 10. So I had that card in a PSA nine, and I think it's a PSA nine, like, pop 11 or 13 or something like that.

But I knew there was a psa 10 pop one well one of the things I like to do is like shop around on all the different marketplaces there's a ton of marketplaces and one of them I don't get on very frequently is the golden fixed price marketplace it's just one that doesn't pop up in my head you know quite a bit for really no reason why I looked on there one day and there the card was and it was listed for $2 and I'm going like oh my gosh this is a pop one this is like this card is so tough to to gem and you know this is one of those ones that I I knew that I wanted.

If I ever found it in the PSA ten, I'm gonna go get it.

So I think that's another thing I'll share with listeners is like when it's a card you want and then maybe it's in a grade you want and you see it and the price feels like somewhat reasonable like don't waste your time just hit the bin smash you know and you won't regret it and and it also helped out too because I did own a PSA nine copy and I knew people who wanted that that card and so I was able to reach out to someone very quickly make the sale for that card, and then that used some of that money to go towards paying myself back for the PSA 10.

Lot of good situations there. I wanna maybe talk about the offer component. I like, I had a card last week that I don't have in my possession yet, but there was three competing offers.

And the the price for me to smash Ben was it was too high. I was like, I want this card, but, like, I don't wanna smash Ben because it I think it's too high. And so I was like, I wanna make a strong offer instead.

So I, like, threw my hat into the fire, which I never do, and ended up getting the card after one kind of back and forth, which I think, to be honest with you, Drake, based on my personality type, but I think it's similar to yours since the situation.

Like, I think it might have been the first time ever that I, like, played the game of, like, competing with other offers and winning a bigger card.

But like mostly like I'm like you in that Sid scenario where it's like I'll pay the extra $75 or whatever to in order to like get this card and not lose out. And then wonder why didn't I just do that in the past?

Maybe, like, talk a little bit more about that approach, and I think it's just I feel like the hobby generally will just try to compete with other offers, and you see that number tick up when it's a card, and you know it too.

It's like you you click open the card because it just it had maybe it just got listed, and you'll you'll you'll see, like, two or three offers. And it's like validating that, okay.

This card is as cool as I think this card is. But I think so much of us play on margins and stuff. Maybe talk about, like, what that card needs to have for you in order for you just to say, you know what?

These other offers, like, I'm not even gonna mess with because this the profile of this card and the price kinda hit this zone for me, so I'm just gonna go with it. Maybe talk about just, like, your mindset.

And I would imagine, like, the SIG card isn't, like, the first time you've done that. I'm sure you've done that, more in the past, but maybe just talk a little bit more about that experience. Yeah. It it's interesting.

When I was going back and looking at cards where I smashed bin and things like that, that's it's been a while since I've done and, you know, the two that I gave, the Psycho SID, that was one that was probably the most recent.

A lot of them has been more like a private deal bin smash, if that makes sense. So that's probably where I can provide more more insight, you know, on that than anything else.

And I think, you know, the first thing is, is that if it's a if it's a one on one or if it's a card that's on your want list or something like that.

I think that's whenever you go and you look at it and you're like gosh is that price reasonable? You know is this a card that I'm gonna ever have the opportunity again?

And there's countless examples where I think that's happened. And if if not you know, then I just say, hey, you know, yeah, it's gonna cost me, you know, 10%, twenty % more than I was hoping to have to pay.

But I found in all those instances, I get the car and I'm like super excited that I have it and then you know weeks months go down the road and I don't sit there and go like gosh I paid too much for that card you know because if if you're thinking that then it's probably a card that you didn't want in the first place right and I'm and and and I'll share something and I want to watch like too many details but I'm actually I'm dealing with this right now is there's this person that I I had bought many cards for and I've overpaid many cards for and there's a card of mine that he wants And I'm like, well, here's my price if you want the card.

And he's trying to, like, comp me to death and say, well, I don't think it's worth that. And in my mind, I'm thinking, well, he probably really doesn't want the card as bad as he's telling me he does.

And so I think I share that not to throw shade on anybody on a deal or anything like that. I just say that I think it's just a good learning example to think about.

You know, if you really want a card, you know, you're probably not going to sit there and say, gosh, I really want to get this for $75 cheaper or 10% cheaper or something like that.

You know, you're just gonna pay a little bit more for it and you're gonna move on.

You know, if that means you've gotta move, you know, an extra card from your collection to help you pay for it or you gotta save a little bit more money from that next paycheck or or something like that.

It's totally worth it. And so I think that's that's just kind of my mindset when I go into those situations. I love it. I'm gonna make you feel really good about your bin smashing story card.

So last night, I lost an auction for a Kobe Fleener, black finite, 2012 rookie prism, Andrew Luck teammate at Stanford and Colts, and I a saint too. So there's some connection there. I bid a $816 on that card and lost it.

So I say that to set the stage because I think when you smash been on your card, which is the 2012, Peyton Manning Gold Prism, things have changed quite a bit in the 2012, prism football card market, But I I know this is a fun story.

I've got the card showed up on the screen and shout out, Drake gave me a fresh, crispy, new picture of, this Manning card.

But, yeah, man, let's let's talk about, the story you have behind this card. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. The, the photo thing is actually a funny story.

You know, we we all talk about evolutions in the hobby, and I went through an evolution of trying to figure out how the heck to take a good picture When my kitchen table was in there with perfect natural lighting the whole time I was trying to do the light boxes and get things just right and that whole sort of thing.

And so I look, you know, I'm very jealous of people that you know, you scroll through Instagram and all their pictures look nice and uniform and unique.

And I look through mine and I mean, it looks like the circus with all different types of stuff.

And I just don't have enough time to go back and scan cards and take pictures. I just leave it as is. And I just say, this is my evolution in the hobby.

So yeah, but on this this this been smashing story, you know as I've shared before I returned to the hobby in late twenty nineteen and you know you get into it in 2020 and that's when COVID happened and everything just exploded and there's a bunch of talking heads and you know, you're, that's when I kind of found that there was a card, social media and Instagram and that whole sort of thing.

And so during, like, you know, 2020 or whatever, I was buying everything that Jeff Wilson and other people were telling you that you needed to buy and, you know, everything was gonna go up and you would buy it.

And when you got it, the price was typically everything was going to go up and you would buy it and when you got it the price was typically higher than what you paid for it so it seemed like it was a fantastic deal but as I've shared before I've I started looking at these cards and I'm like like yeah like I don't care about Jayson Tatum or Luca or Kyler Murray or Zion Williamson or like name your favorite prospect of the week, you know, like that's fine.

But they just didn't really, you know, from as a collector, it didn't appeal to me. And I was frustrated at myself because I was buying cars, just hoping they went up in value.

And that's just, I mean, like we all hope our collections don't decrease in value, but that's not why I want to buy cards. And so it was just a bad spot for me to be in.

And so as I've shared before you know growing up in the Memphis area I was a fan of the Tennessee Vols and then a fan of Peyton Manning and so followed him throughout his career and I was always a Peyton Manning fan and that whole sort of thing and I I still have my Peyton collection from when I was a kid and I started to kind of just I don't know really what you know flipped the switch but I was just like you know let's let's get back get back to Peyton like that's who I like that's who that's who like is one of my role models.

You know, he's a great performer on and off the field. I loved watching him in the pros.

Let's get back to that. And so at some point in like 2020 and I was trying to go back through Instagram through DMs but it was taking forever. I could only get back to like 2022, and that whole sort of thing.

And so, sometime in late twenty twenty, I got connected to Michael Demartino who's Mikey dot sports cards and we started talking cards and you know that whole sort of thing and everything and he was more in tune to like what was going on in the market than what I was.

I was just kind of out there just trying to figure everything out and still getting back into it and still learning and I was like, hey, if you see like a cool Peyton Manning card, let me know.

And so again, we talked a whole lot and that sort of thing.

So fast forward to like January 2021, he sends me an eBay listing, and it was when PWCC was still a part of eBay, and he says, Drake, he's like, these 2012 Prizm Golds are awesome. This is a Peyton Manning car. Check out this price.

And it was listed for like $15. 99 OBO. And I was like, Man, like, what's cool about this card? Can you tell me about this? And he's like, Well, 2012 was the first year of PRISM, and Prism goals are cool, and people are liking them.

And he's going to all the shows, and he's getting all the information. I'm just sitting in my house shopping eBay during COVID. Right? And, he's telling me how cool it is and better than that.

And I was like, okay. Well well, cool. Yeah. And at that point, I hadn't spent a lot of money on a card. I think $1,100 was the most I had spent on like a Luca Dante card or something and I said, well sweet.

Well, it's it's got. It's got an offer on. I think I should send an offer like what do you think? What do you think is a fair offer for the card and I remember him saying he's like Drake.

If you don't smash Ben, I'm gonna smash Ben on this card just because and so I thought, Oh man like that's a lot of money. I don't really know like okay, you know and so I hit Ben and paid for it and all this.

I remember him telling me like I really hope the owner ships it and but obviously it it was pwcc and you know that that they shipped me the card and everything was fine well then not long after that I think he sent me a forum from blowout where you know people someone had started a blowout for him talking about how you know someone stole this Peyton Manning card the seller left off zero you know this whole sort of thing and then I think you added me to like the Peyton Manning group chat and you're like hey here's this Drake guy and he just he's the one who just bought this Peyton twenty twelve prism gold for $1,500 and, and so I felt like I was like getting thrown to the wolves or whatever.

But yeah, that that that's kind of the story behind the bin smash and it was more, it was just not, not really knowing things at the time, but then having somebody that I had become a friend in the hobby who I trusted who was like, you need to do this.

And so I think sometimes when you're you know, I've gotten to a point now where I'm more comfortable with doing my own bin smashes, but I think especially if you're newer in the hobby, it's good to have a trusted group of somebody that you can run something by that can help validate something for you.

Or also someone who's just like, hey, I'm looking for these types of cards. You know, will you keep an eye out?

Because had he had I not told him I was looking for Peyton and had he not been kind of understanding what was going on with Prism Golds, I probably would have never even seen this card come across my feet.

And so this was something that, started a chain reaction because after I got this car and I was like this is really cool and then he's like hey well, just so you know there's a 2013 and 2014 that's sitting out on ebay right now if you wanna go snag those two.

So I was like well cool. So then I got that and I'm like well that's, you know, three out of his four years of prison golds.

You know, he's only got four years total because 2015 was his last playing year. I said, let's, let's just complete this run. And so I completed that run-in, 2015.

I or sorry, I, I grabbed the 2015 at the 2021, national. So, yeah, that's, that's a lot of talking, but it was just crazy how I just went from having none to one in January to then getting the 2013, '20 '14.

And then just a few short months later, I completed his playing playing your prison gold run.

I think in hearing the story, it just emphasizes how quickly things change in the hobby. It is unheard of to have access to one Manning gold prism available in the way that the 2012 was available, let alone three.

And it just doesn't happen. That's never will happen again the way that it happened for you, which I think is cool. You had some help. You had some support from Mikey. You smashed Ben.

You're very happy with the way you did it. What's it been like to get access to a card like this and bring it into your collection for the price that you have, and then seen the trajectory of the 2012 prism market continue to soar?

I mean, that what's that this story is kind of what we all aspire to have happen where the stars align, where it's like we are able to get a card at a price that is awesome.

And then after we get the card, we hold it, and then the market just soars and goes gangbusters.

Maybe share a little bit about that experience because I'm sure there's been opportunities where people have approached you, wanted the card, and you coulda sold it for, you know, $5. 06, 7 x what you bought it for.

But talk about just, like, you're you maybe holding on to the card and then just watching everything around, this manning continue to go up in kind of the 2012 prism football market. Yeah. It was certainly a fun ride. Right?

I think, just like I said, it was interesting to just buy that card and then, you know, you people are sending you blowout forums talking about the card and saying that, you know, as the buyer, I need to, you know, like not, not, not, not get it.

And I should reach back out to the owner and say, I'm sorry. And, you know, you listed your price wrong and things like that.

And that's actually one thing I'll segue on that just real quick. If if you don't mind is Yeah. You know, I I as I mentioned, I'm very much like a relational person in the hobby, and I like relationships and things like that.

And I think there's, you know, there's, contradicting opinions on, you know, if somebody prices a card incorrectly, like, are you supposed to tell them about it? Or you're not is that on them?

Are you not supposed to tell them? Things like that. Certainly, if it was like a personal transaction and somebody had priced something wrong or whatever, I'm going to tell that person. But in this case, again, it's listed on PWCC.

I have no you know connection to the owner if I'm sitting there and I'm like on ebay and I'm typing a message like hey PWCC will you reach out to this owner and let them know they may have priced their card wrong right By the time all that happens, somebody else is gonna smash Ben and it doesn't really matter.

And so I think that's just that's one thing that's gonna run run through my mind and just something else to consider as well too on, you know, do you tell someone, do you not tell someone, you know, things like that.

At the end of the day, you know, we're friends in the hobby and all that sort of stuff. But, you know, when when values are involved in high value cards, there's a lot of selfishness that comes out. So, just one thing there.

But no, it it has been interesting. You you know, you get all that. I think that's when, you know, you know, like stacking slabs, I was on there originally and we talked about this card and, you know, the acquisition story.

And then there were others that talked through that. And then I was getting DMs, you know, instant DMs from flippers in the hobby saying like for sale for sale. And that was my first real experience.

I think of having a card that a lot of people wanted and it was real. It was an interesting position to be in because whenever I buy cards, like I don't buy them to sell. And so I'm like, man, this is crazy.

Like people just want to buy this and but I don't want to sell it and but what am I supposed to do and I remember I was actually asked when I saw the DMs going through my DM last night from Mikey I I sent him a DM and I said hey there's this guy that offered me like $15 for this card like what do you think I should do and you know and and his and then he just wrote back and he said never sell your $20.

12 prism gold right and I'm like okay you know and you know there's some people that may think differently of going like man like why didn't you 10x your money and why didn't you do that and that whole sort of thing and you know and maybe I should have done that right because you know this card I think sold a couple times last year in like the 8 to $9 range or something like that.

So then could I maybe had an opportunity to rebuy it or something like that?

But I think for me, it's the whole connection to the card and like, yeah, I could get a different copy of this card, but I like the fact that, you know, I've got this whole story and this was kind of like returning to the hobby.

This was like, it's got a whole story connected to it of like with Mikey, we got connected and he helped me find this card. And, you know, and I'm sitting at home in Arkansas, he's up in Connecticut.

We're talking every single day about cards. He's looking for Peyton cards. He's sending me cards. I'm looking, he was looking for like Dak Prescott at the time and I'm sending him back cards.

And he was a Russell Wilson collector and things like that. And then we got connected and then we finally met in person at the national. We were actually roommates there, which is kind of a crazy deal.

It was like going back to college and that whole sort of thing. So I think it's, for me, it's more than, you know, you asked about talking about the card and how that works.

But I think for me, it's more about the card and the connection to it and the stories behind it beyond just people DMing and asking about value and things like that.

But it's certainly been neat to see like prism golds come around and rise and things like that.

And, you know, I I I think back and and maybe I should have listened a little bit more during that time period of, like, hey, you know, turn left when the market's going right type thing, like, in this in this type of situation.

So before we get off this and move into some bin smashing cards that went on from this past week, would love I mean, anybody who knows you or follows you, understands your Peyton collection is hard to top.

I mean, you're you've you've just prioritized finding the best Peyton Manning cards out there and adding them to your collection.

This is a card that you got DM ed about that you decide to smash bin. I would love, based on your patent collection, where does this card sit in terms of importance amongst your collection?

Well, you know, at at one point, it was probably top three. But then I picked up some other really significant patent cards to me. You know, obviously, the essential credentials future is way up there at the very, very top.

I don't know if I can assign an exact number, but I'll definitely say it's still a top 10 card for me in my collection. You know, I think the story behind it, is great. It's, you know, it's a beautiful looking card.

Obviously, it's the first year prism, prism gold, that whole sort of thing. It's it's not one that I ever ever intend on actually moving on from. So it's, it's one that's gonna stick around in the PC for a long, long time.

Awesome card. Awesome story. Many listeners out there are jealous, I'm sure, of that maneuver that you pulled. What year was that, by the way? It was '20 January of twenty twenty one.

So Wow. Yeah. And and and well, and just one thing I'll I'll say, Brett, that I I wanted to mention too is, you know, when I when I think of of Mikey, you know, it's interesting how people come into your lives in certain times.

Some people come into your lives and they stay there. Some come for a period of time and you kind of wonder, man, that was interesting, like period.

And why was that person there? And, you know, like I still talk to Mikey very infrequently. Now we stay in touch. We always make a point to see each other at the national. We got to take a photo and that whole sort of thing.

But I think it's important just to understand that like, you know, some people come into your life and stay and they're great friends like you and I, right? And then some people are kind of there for a season.

And so like he and I were there and we were, you know, like best friends and chat buddies and all that kind of stuff for a season during COVID when there was all this other stuff going on in the world.

And I certainly just, you know, I, I want to publicly thank him for, you know, showing me that card, you know, and and and allowing me to get it and, you know, and just for that friendship and the connection that we had and things like that.

So he's a great guy. He still he tears it up in the hobby now. I mean, he's at, like, every show he's going around, he's buying cards.

I mean, that guy does a ton of volume. So it's been it's been cool for me to watch where, you know, we were both kind of educating educating each other, and then he's kinda grown into this.

Like, he's full blown, like, hobby participant, and he's all in. So it's been really cool to watch the evolution. So Shout out, Mikey. He, follows these eBay searches like a freaking hawk. I know that. Let's talk about some bin smashes.

It's WrestleMania week. This is fun because this is a card you and I, went back and forth about, and I was like, well, this this gotta be added to the list because I wanna talk about it further and maybe just mindset.

This is the 2022 prism stone cold Steve Austin gold prism out of 10 PSA nine. Got smashed for one or two k, basically, this past week.

Previous sales of this card, at the all time high, you had one for 3,200 and then a raw copy sold in December for 1,300. Stone Cold Steve Austin is, just the the greatest of all time, considered by many.

He is getting honored in this WrestleMania, with his match for with Bret Hart at WrestleMania thirteen, which for me as a fan of wrestling my entire life is my favorite match of all time.

I literally could watch that match, the I quit match over and over again. Perfect storytelling, Just everything about that match rules.

This card though. It's like his first gold Prism debut year, two ks is a lot of money, but I'm just like, man, like this card just feels like it's someone buying it at the right time.

Maybe share some perspective on Austin. Austin's collecting this card. Anything you want to talk about Drake. Oh, I know this is one of those cards that got listed a higher price and I looked at it and I think it was $5 initially.

And I'm like, I remember when those twenty twenty two prism golds were just coming out and I mean, selling for just crazy amounts of money.

And I was like, man, I remember, you know, back three years ago, if I had seen this card for $20.

20, you know, $20. 22 stone cold Steve Austin for 5 ks, like I probably would have smashed it in on it. And then it's like time passes. And then, you know, like I, I, I love I've got a great connection to stone cold Steve Austin.

I think it's a great looking card given the, you know, stone cold stunner to Mr. Kane there. And, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a great shot. And I, yeah, it's just, it's a phenomenal looking card from the debut set of prism.

It's like, what's not to like about it. It's It's a PSA nine. There's only 10 copies and then the owner of the card who who actually know and connected with and he's, he kept dropping the price of the card. Mhmm.

And I remember thinking the last time he dropped the price the card I almost sent him a DM and I was like I wanted to be like Phil if you drop this price again like I'm gonna buy this card like just because it's I mean those the the prison golds especially from the debut year just don't come around you know there's some you can look around now and there's, you know, a bazillion tops, chrome, super fractures and gold refractors and all that, but you try to look for, like, prism golds of the all time greats, you know, like Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold and, you know, The Rock and like name your favorite, you know, huge name from the nineties.

And they're just, they're not available. They're not out there. They're probably some in sealed wax when wax was going for like a grand and people are just hoarding boxes and things like that, but they just don't come up very often.

And so, you you know when I see this car and I see this price for like less than $2 it's it's one that let's go yes.

If I if I collected stone cold and even though I wouldn't call myself a stone cold collector I'm a wrestling card collector even though I've really tried to narrow down the focus of my collection because as you and I have talked about when we learned about you know, WWE cards and being modern and gold refractors and all that we use the shotgun approach and we're just buying anything gold we could find.

And then at some point, you have to narrow the scope down and, you know, Stone Cold is, I I think I sold my last Stone Cold card a couple months ago.

And so I that's kinda what made me walk away from this one versus just smashing bin is I was like, gosh. Do I really wanna add stone cold back into my collection?

And but I mean, if I was only gonna add one card, this would probably be one of a handful of cards that I wanna add. But it's a it's a phenomenal card. So congrats to the new owner. Yes.

Congrats to the new owner. And and I was I think I shared this with you. I was following it, and I was following the price drop. And when it reached this point, I I I was so close, but then I was like, man, I'm going to WrestleMania.

I could really use that money there instead of all this card, but maybe before we move off of it. Like wrestling collecting is unlike anything else.

It is you you feel like you know what's going on, and then you don't know what's going on. But with, like, Austin, it just I don't know. It's like people love Austin, but then and again, it's like, I'm not sure.

There's a reason why that card continued to go down and no one, smashed it. Do you think the buying pool just at, like, 1 k and above for wrestling cards is really small, and some people just don't reach above that.

Because I just I can't understand, like, how a card like this maybe slips through the cracks and isn't a card like the Manning, which is the first year that you put that out there today, anyone's gonna smash Ben at, you know, name your price.

But it just the connection between, like, first year, Austin, this price, like, it just doesn't add up like it would add up maybe in other categories.

Yeah. I think there's a few things at play in here. I think it's people are enamored with the shiny new toy, and so now Topps is the player.

And so people are just blowing all their money on, you know, Topps Chrome and trying to get the super factors and trying to get the autographs of The Rock.

And so they're they're saving their money, I guess. And then there's, you know, at some point there's gonna be some other releases of tops product. And so everybody wants the shiny new toy.

And so I think they feel like, okay, well, the attention has shifted away from the prism in WWE. I I don't wanna put my money there because if I had to sell it everybody else's attention is focused on the tops type stuff.

And so I think that that could be a play a little bit here and and and I think I found that because like during the panini area panini Panini era, I had some tops stuff that I wanted to sell from like 2020 Chrome or '21 Chrome or finance or something like that.

And I found like when I sold that or when I, you know, offered to people, it was like super super cheap and which I couldn't understand.

And so I think people get to be like prisoner of the moment and they wanna like buy and sell like what's the shiny new toy. So I think that's the first thing.

And yeah. And then I think like what you mentioned, especially wrestling collectors, you know, they're rainbow chasers and they like to, you know, get, you know, complete certain sets and things like that.

And so I think, like, probably 90% or maybe even 95% of the wrestling card market operates in that, like, sub $1,000 price point.

And I found when I've been talking to people and and I'll say like hey, you know I see you're a a Roman Reigns collector. I've got this 2021 Chrome red refractor out of five PSA 10.

Would you be interested And they're like, and they're like, what's the price? And I tell them, and it's a fair price and that sort of thing. And they're like, well, it's, it's not signed, so I don't want it. Right.

And so I think there's still a big segment of the wrestling card community that, you know, hasn't, I'll say adapted or adopted the ways of the larger hobby, where they just want the shiny cards that aren't signed and that sort of thing.

There's still a huge segment in wrestling cards. Like if it's not signed, they don't want it.

And so people would rather spend, spend up, I guess we'll say to get a, an autograph card, even if it's on a sticker, which is debatable if that's, you know, if what you like or not, buy what you like.

But I think that's that's probably a play as well. Always understand the categories and the differences, and there's a lot of differences with how the behavior of wrestling collectors, approach cards than other categories.

That's a good call out. We're gonna do another wrestling card. Let's talk about the 2022 immaculate Rhea Ripley gold memorabilia patch, auto, out of 10.

This card sold for $395. I look at this card and I just see the on card autograph. I see the Relic, the the the holofoil, the shine, and just how over Rhea Ripley is.

I mean, she's in a triple threat. Weaseled her way into the triple threat against Bianca Belair and, EO Sky at WrestleMania. That match is gonna be a ton of fun. But I saw this, and I was like, three ninety five?

Like, if you put this profile of card in any other sport with a, player or performer is popular in their respective sport as Rhea Ripley is in WWE right now, like, people would be smashing that price in no time.

So I know, like, I've had some immaculate, throughout my collection over the years.

I think you've owned some. Maybe just talk about, like, this price point, Rhea Ripley and immaculate, and what you what you're you thought when you saw this bin smash.

Yeah. I think she's you know one of the standout performers of the last few years and I think she still has a lot of a lot of room to go.

You know she's one of those you know when when when she comes out and you're in the arena, you know you're not leaving your seat to go to the concession stand or restroom break Like, she's just she's got a she's got superstar built around her.

And so, yeah, when I see that price, the $395, I'm like, man, that's it.

If I collected, you know, Ria Ripley, that that would have been a good price to to buy that car. I mean, like you mentioned, there there's so much in the Panini area.

Panina, keep calling it area. But Panini era, I'll get it right at some point that, that, you know, is a sticker auto. And so I think you see the, you know, the on car auto from a premium product like immaculate.

The, the patch there, I think it's got the chain on it or whatever. So it's a great patch. It's not just like a single color, you know, pink patch or red patch or something like that.

And I think with with immaculate, that stuff was actually worn. And I know some stuff wasn't worn in some of the products. And so I think that's another thing, you know, that's, that kinda throws a feather in the cap.

Obviously, it's gold. It's out of 10, things like that. I think there's there's a whole lot to like about this card, and this this price is not surprising to me at all.

Alright. Let's move over, in a category I neither of us really collect in, but this card, I saw it, and I saw it was smashed. And I was like, there's a lot of nostalgia here with Grand Hill, so let's talk about it.

It's the $98. 99 Metal Universe Grand Hill PMG out of 50. PSA six, went for $5,277. The last sale was at auction in July of this last year for $4,320.

So about a thousand dollar climb in less than a year. Nineties basketball, man, it's like a whole another planet. I it's all it's like I love to be a spectator around it, but there's just so much going on.

Maybe share some perspective just on nineties basketball. This card's certainly cool and this YC, the jersey, and it really brings me back to a specific time.

But maybe talk a little bit about just, like, your observations with nineties basketball. Grant Hill, anything you wanna talk about here?

Yeah. I'd say the first thing I think of with with Grant Hill, I remember one of the cards I wanted as a kid was his, 1994 finest rookie card. And I remember Me too, man. I asked for that for Christmas.

And I remember I actually pulled it out of a pack one time as a kid and it was in 1994 and that was when they still had the old like screw downs with the two screws on the top and on the bottom and I put that card in there and I thought I was going to like retire off that card and you know it was actually a card I've I still have it.

It's all of the screw down or whatever, but it's just one of those cards that I kept as a kid and I was like man, this is this this card is it, you know, Grant Hill is the next next Michael Jordan or whatever.

But yeah with 90s cards, I mean a totally different animal and I think as a football collector, you know it comes to mind and I see this and I'm like man a six on this card of a guy like Grant Hill, who's a great player, but you know I wouldn't consider him like one of the all time greats and it's selling for over $5 or whatever.

I'm like man when I look at Peyton and he's like a top three four QB of all time and that I paid for some of his similar type stuff like it feels cheap like it's one properly valued overvalued undervalued like that's all the stuff that excuse me that kind of plays in my head a little bit but I know that you're comparing apples to oranges and you know basketball is a worldwide market and you get the asian collectors in there and there's just a larger collector base that that wants this card.

But I think it also plays in the fact that like especially on the 90s cards like grade really doesn't matter that much. I mean, yeah, if you have like $8. 09 10, there's going to be a premium there and things like that.

But I definitely think when you get into nineties collectors, like, people really just want the card. And, you know, I think there's just a big difference in, you know, now ultra modern type stuff, like, grade matters so much.

Right? That's like almost like a PSA 10 or bust because in some cases, like raw cards will outsell a PSA nine. But I think just the designs of the nineties and I think they hit hit the nail on the head with basketball.

They did a lot of things right in football and with baseball, things like this, you know, certainly we've seen a big rise in the 90 stuff really over the last year.

I still think we continue to see that rise moving forward. So while this card, you know, sold for a thousand dollars over the last sale, I don't think I don't see whenever it sells again unless it sells real frequently.

I don't know how often it sells. I would think no more than a couple times a year.

I would say it it likely sells for for more than than the sale right here. The next card I intentionally picked because I feel like this is gonna be fun to talk with Drake about Justin Herbert.

We never talked about Justin Herbert. I'm sure we've talked about a lot, but Justin Herbert specifically, this will be fun.

So this is his 2022, prism gold PSA 10, sold via BINSMASH for $2,099. 99. This card sold via auction for 2,100 in March, March '6, and then sold via auction in August of twenty four for $1,424.

And if you're playing if you're following along in this episode, Drake picked up his twenty twelve gold prism Peyton Manning via Binsmash for $1,500.

And this is a, you know, third year Justin Herbert, PSA 10 selling or gold prism PSA 10 selling for 2,000 over $2,000.

Now Justin Herbert is a really good quarterback. I think he's got all the traits. Justin Herbert really hasn't accomplished much. And the last time we saw Justin Herbert wasn't his best performance in the playoffs.

But Justin Herbert is this player that during the bubble and during the rise and then the fall of the the market was a player so many, people invested a lot of money in.

So, Drake, there's a lot there. It's fully loaded, but I'm tossing that grenade over your way to talk about this sale, Justin Herbert, in just the ultra modern, quarterback slash prospecting of it all.

Yeah. Well, first, I'll say I wouldn't pay this for this card. I'll I'll I'll just I'll I'll just leave with that. I mean, there's someone that did and bless their heart that that's great.

But, you know, I've I've talked to some other ultra modern collectors and I think with so many ultra modern cards, I know Prism is king and Prism gold is king and things like that.

But I think if you're really wanting to collect, you know, the ultra modern stuff, I would say, you know, try to save up some money.

Maybe it costs you a little bit more and try to put put it more into the rookie rookie cards, you know, like a rookie gold prism or a, you know, optic gold or a select field level, you know, just stuff something like that.

Like stick to the rookies before you start expanding out a little bit more because I think, and and again, this is just my opinion, you know, if you're willing to collect a player and get their gold prism run, like certainly go for it.

But I still think Justin Herbert is one that, you know, investors and flippers are into.

So there's opportunity there to get burned. You know, I see this card, you know, more likely going towards zero, than I do see it going on an upwards trajectory.

And I think as, you know, as a patent collector, right, you've got Mahomes, who's like this generation's Tom Brady. And then I think there's other quarterbacks that in my opinion, you know, Josh Allen for one.

And there's others, you know, I won't name a ton of names, but you know, who I think are probably more accomplished than Justin Herbert and have a greater chance to, you know sneak one in there on the Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes and things like that.

And so I think just just I mean this is a great card obviously like Gold Prism is good. It's a PSA ten.

You know there's a lot to like about this card but just in my opinion if you're going after Justin Herbert you know and you want to pick him up or whatever I would say just just be careful at prices you're paying and I would say that you know over time rookie cards really do matter and I think in an era where there's a ton of cards produced I would try to stick stick to the rookie cards as much as you can unless you're trying to complete a run or something like that, like what I did with Peyton.

How do you, how do you think about these types of sales in their in the moment, them happening, and then looking at a player you collect like Peyton Manning, who obviously is one of the greatest football players of all time and has Gold Prism.

And you you like, I think we can get caught up in looking at other current players and comparing them with retired players.

I mean, I I can't believe it's selling for that, but it's, like, an in the moment thing where if we were able to zoom out and just look at the sales history of some of these cards over a long period of time or look in the future.

Like, not saying this card will, but this card has a chance to just fall off and, you know, go more down to zero than it does, you know, five x over time.

How do you not get caught up in, concerning yourself with, like, players who've accomplished less, who might be selling for more than the player that you collect who has more accolades?

Mhmm. Yes. I I'd I'll say it's hard not to get caught up.

It doesn't doesn't really bother me as much. I just I scratch my head, and I'm just going like, man, why would somebody buy the house across the beach when they can buy the house directly on the beach?

But then I think in those people's minds it's, well, I want to buy a bunch of houses across from the beach in hopes that they'll gain value.

So then I can buy the house on the beach. But but my philosophy is I would rather just spend a little bit more right now and buy the house directly on the beach. And so that's kind of what I think.

I certainly think there's a again, there's a prisoner prisoner of the moment, type thing. You know, one thing that, Chris Hosh says a lot is, you know, he he lets recency bias kinda factor into, like, his all time rankings and things.

And and I know he and I go back and forth a little bit on, like, recency bias and should it matter and, you know, things like that. I think just things change over time.

You know, the game has changed over time. You know, I'll I'll say that, you know, the NFL quarterbacks have an extra game now and they still can't beat Manning's single season record. So, but that's a different conversation.

But but, yeah, it's, it it it's it it is a little bit I mean, it's impossible to tune out the noise, but I know people are going like you know everybody gets hyped up or what are they gonna do and is this gonna be the year and that whole sort of thing and I think it's just the end of the day like you have to remember like there can only be so many great quarterbacks or so many great running backs or receivers or you know point guards or whatever and things like that and so I think you just have to be careful of like not getting not buying into the hype getting overly into prospecting and things like that.

And then just look at, you know, a guy like a Peyton Manning and compare him to his prices to, to, to a Tom Brady. And I can sit there and say like, man, this gap between Peyton and Tom Brady is huge, but it, but it is what it is.

And so you just have to know that like over time, the gap to get on guys like Justin Herbert and Joe Burrow and even Josh Allen, when you compare them to like Emma Holmes, which like I said, is this generation's Tom Brady, like that gap is there for a reason and it's gonna stay there unless something crazy happens, which it likely won't be.

So I think it's it's just important to just recognize that and don't think like well, you know right now I can buy this card for $2 and you know, in a in a few months, I'm gonna sell it for $10.

Right? The odds of that happening are are not very good. So, just be wise. Alright. The last piece of this conversation is where I like to pull up in a listing on eBay and ask the guest if they would smash Ben on this.

Now I know Drake pretty well, and I know Drake that has has definitely seen the car that I'm about to share. And I know he's hasn't smashed Ben. So my question mostly for you, Drake will be this listing in this card.

What would need to be true in order for you to smash been? And so I I kind of teased it earlier that we'd be going back to talk about this guy, but we've got the final boss, The Rock in the 2024, select throwback, gold Prism.

PSA-ten Pop one is listed on eBay right now for $3,500. The look of this card is if you're a fan of 2013 football, it's the exact same design.

They're using it in the select product insert set. And looking at this card, man, and I know we've gone back and forth and the reasons what we like and we don't like, but looking at this one.

I don't know if I had seen this up until trying to pick out a card. This one looks pretty cool. Like, I think this card looks really cool.

So maybe talk about this card and what would need to be true in order for you to maybe smash been on it. Well, you know, since it has this $5 off coupon code, I may need to go smash Ben right now.

I was just I was waiting for that to pop up. So no. There's a there's certainly a lot to like about this card, and I know we've talked about it before. It's a it's a sweet looking card for The Rock.

Obviously, it's a throwback to 2013 Select, you know, which I I I love Select, and things like that. But I also, you know, I I don't know how I feel about whenever they bring back try to bring back something they've done before.

You know, you think of, like, you know, they had the PMGs, and then they brought that back in the early twenty tens. Right? And they had the retro PMGs.

And it's, like, I I just I think if this was the first time they had ever had this design and it wasn't like a throwback, which turns into an insert set, and that sort of thing, if this was actually like a, you know, here's the design, this is the gold parallel, like we're not throwing back to anything, that's it.

This would probably be almost an instant bin smash for me because I love the design. I like, you know, obviously it's a PSA 10, it's a Pop one, there's only 10 copies.

It's the rock. There's a whole lot to like about it. But I think just those two things that I shared, that's kinda what holds me back from smashing Ben on this card.

Drake, before I let you go, I gotta find out night two of WrestleMania, the main event of the entire show is going to be John Cena trying to surpass The Nature Boy Ric Flair in number of title reigns versus Cody Rhodes, The American Nightmare.

And I it's hard to be a great champion. You and I are wrestling nerds, and I feel like we we talk about, like, who's good champion wise, like, and it makes it mean something.

I I have loved Cody Rhodes title reign. I think he is a great champion reminds me of being a kid, the way he presents himself.

He's so over. It's crazy. John Cena is John Cena. The Babe Ruth of professional wrestling. This main event. I'm excited about it. What is going to happen as WrestleMania closes?

Tell me the ending. What's gonna happen? Well, I don't know exactly how it's gonna happen, obviously, but I see John Cena standing tall holding the belt. I think he breaks the record he gets the title reign.

He moves into the summer as a champion. Plays off the hill persona and I don't know when it happens down the road, but I think by the end of the year, which is John Cena's farewell farewell tour, he ends his run as a as a baby face.

So I think at some point that transition happens, I think he'll drop the title, at some point to someone, but I think that's the way I see you.

WrestleMania ending. I I think, you know, it is in Vegas and if I had money to place on it, it would probably lean towards your prediction.

Drake, this is a ton of fun. Glad we could talk about your Manning and all of the other bin smashes. As always, really appreciate your perspective and time. Thanks again for having me on, Brett.