Alright. We're back. Another episode of Smashing Ben unlocking a new character in this episode.

Today, I'm joined by Alex. He goes by at Leather Helmet Cards on Instagram, and we're going to be talking about his bin smash of the 2,002 finest Kurt Warner gold refractor out of 25 PSA, ten, one of my favorite, football sets.

But before we get into that, Alex, welcome, man. How are you? I'm good, man. Nice to see you, and thanks for joining us after, that game seven on Sunday. I appreciate it. Yes. We'll we'll keep our comments at a minimum.

But like I mentioned to you, talking cards has certainly been therapeutic in a way. Maybe just to, like, kick it off, let's I I wanna talk about just, like, bin smashing and definitely get into that on your side.

But I also think it's interesting to talk about Kurt Warner, and I would love to maybe a little bit about your maybe share a little bit about yourself and your collecting.

And then just, like, I know you've gotten certainly into Kurt Warner collecting. Like, what is it about Warner that intrigues you enough to collect his cards? Yeah. So I started collecting like a lot of people when I was a kid.

It was a lot of, nineties pack ripping with my dad and my brother and, you know, chasing Jordan and chasing a lot of raptors at the time too with, the team being introduced in 1995 with Damon Stoudemire.

So there's a lot of nostalgia there. So, just love the collecting aspect, love the aesthetics, love going to the old card shops and just ripping packs and and seeing all the different cards that were available.

And I think in the context of Kurt Warner, it was just I was really getting into football, so I was a basketball household.

My my dad was a basketball coach. My brother played basketball, but I had this passion for football that I couldn't explain.

So I was about seven or eight years old, and I was really getting into into football, playing playing the games. Back then, it was like game day, nine eight nine sports, and that and where the big, big games at the time.

But getting into that and I just wanted a favorite player, a favorite team. I wanted something to root for and something to be passionate about. And, Kurt Warner's name came up.

And it was about, 2000 time frame, 1999 time frame where he was just blowing up, and it was, you know, a former grocery store employee, you know, a journeyman before he landed with the Rams in Dick Vermeil.

And it was just an awesome story of an underdog who chased his passion and became successful and ended up being a MVP, Super Bowl MVP type caliber player. And it was just, what more can you want out of sports?

Right? Like, everyone cheers to the underdog. I saw I actually haven't even seen the movie that that's come out. I think it's on Netflix. I I think it might hurt my collecting passion for Foot Horner, just seeing that level of acting.

But it's such an awesome story to be told, and he's just a good dude. We share a similar faith as well. So it's just a a match made in heaven to some extent in terms of collecting in that passion for that player.

I have I've chosen not to watch the movie as well. It's been an option a couple times. I'm like, maybe next time. We're gonna talk mostly about Warner in this card, but you mentioned something there that I'm super curious about.

You know, when we were growing up, you know, followers of the NBA, I I'll just never forget, like, the addition of the Grizzlies and the Raptors into just dropping them down, Canadian teams, and then all of a sudden, new logos.

It was just so different, and it was so appealing. And it was also, like, you mentioned Damon Stoudemire.

It was like, rookies and rookies in this new uniform that we're just learning about, and it's like, we wanna collect these cards. I just remember it being such a, like, burned into my brain when those two teams, came into the league.

What was it like for you as, you know, a Canadian, someone who has maybe followed the NBA to finally realize, okay, NBA is coming kind of to your city, and it's time to not just cheer from afar, but really support a team that is local to you.

I think the coolest thing is that, especially now with the just the Toronto Raptors being in existence and Vancouver moving away, like, it's Canada's team.

There's something so cool about an entire country rooting for one team. I know at the time, it was super exciting.

We were a we were a Boston Celtics household for a long time with Larry Bird, and my dad really loved those eighties eighties Celtics and Robert Parish and, always saw the old, you know, Red Auerbach coaching videos when I was growing up and how to shoot with Larry Bird and and things of that, nature.

But, yeah, coming to your city, my dad was in marketing at the time. It was actually at the Jersey reveal for the Toronto Raptors, so he took a lot of pictures.

Obviously, they had to be developed and and picked up at, like, a Costco back then, but it was just a big energy in the city of, you know, we have this new sport coming to town.

We're gonna have our own team, new branding, New Jerseys, rookies to your to your point, and just this level of excitement. And it only escalated more.

Like, you see all these Canadian players in, the NBA, and you ask them, you know, what struck your passion for basketball? What was the energy when you were growing up? And everyone says Vince Carter coming into town.

And and really that rookie class, then McGrady coming shortly after and really being competitive as an organization and going deep into playoff runs, and it just brought the energy in the city and and in the country more broadly, and it was just exciting to follow.

What what has it been like, following just, like, the Vince card like, from a, like, broader hobby perspective, just, like, looking at what what happens?

It seems to me that there are these players throughout the history of, like, the NBA that no matter, like, championships, MVPs, whatever, they transcend all of those things.

And because they're players that, like, capture the hearts and minds and imagination of so many collectors that years later, people wanna collect these players.

And if I, like, put that category together, like, Vince Carter is certainly in that batch. What what has that been like for you?

And obviously, like, Carter didn't he had a historically, long career. He didn't spend his whole career with the Raptors. But I think if we all close our eyes and think about Vince Carter, we all remember him in that Raptors purple.

What has that been like for you as, like, just a Raptors fan and just seeing a player like Carter and just the long term interest he has had in the hobby?

I think it's really cool about Vince Carter that he he played across four decades. So he's one of those players that it's just unbelievable talent, unbelievable durability to be at such a high level.

I I enjoy the fact that he went from this high flyer and this, huge dunker to then became a sharpshooter later in his career once, the knees were starting to give out a bit, but it's been so exciting to follow him.

He did have a bit of a bad exit, I would say, from Toronto and some of the, I would say, disagreement with management and some conflict, and we didn't get a big return from him at all when he went to the New Jersey Nets.

But, he's a player that I've followed my my whole life.

Like, I watched the dunk off, live at All Star Weekend when he was putting his arm in the rim and putting it through the legs, and, you know, Shaq was freaking out on the sideline with his Polaroid camera.

But it was, it's just such an awesome thing to watch him grow and develop.

And, yeah, I I know he spanned across a ton of teams. Phoenix, Orlando was kind of iconic wherever he went, Dallas as well, but always saw him in, in that Toronto purple jersey.

And I was actually hoping he would come back for a retirement tour in 2019 when we won the championship, but it didn't end up, working out. At least you got your title.

That's all that really matters. Yeah. The title. Right? Like, we all get the and then it was the Kevin Durant Achilles injury final too. So some say there's an asterisk, but, hey, an NBA title is an NBA title, so I'll take it.

Yes. With how how do what's your viewpoint on, like and maybe you could speak for yourself or just Raptors fans in general with about Kawhi Leonard.

Obviously, like, it wasn't a long run, but it was probably the best one and done run ever. Is he the type of player when he comes back to Toronto is revered? Like, what's your viewpoint on Leonard?

I view him as the catalyst for winning a championship. So I know there was a lot of mixed feelings when we made that trade. DeRozan was a long term raptor, very committed to the city, very involved in the city and the community.

But when we traded for him, I was like, okay. This is our real shot. And I think, Masai knew that he was the the plug and the, you know, centerpiece for a future championship team.

I know people felt mixed about it. He had some load management, discussions at the time, and I know we really took care of his body and there were injury concerns.

But when you look back at that season, it's just phenomenal, all the different shots he made, especially in that series with Philly, the last, shot of the game in the corner, and he truly became a legend within the city even though he was one and done.

Like, I know even after the fact when he was going through his free agency, period, we fully understood he wanted to go back home to LA.

Totally respected that, but the whole city was united in making sure that we made a pitch for him to stay.

And I know restaurants were giving him free discounts to eat there, and there were signs everywhere. It was just a really cool overall feeling having him in the city and winning that championship.

And, yeah, we'll never forget it for sure. Alright. Let's get into the card talk. So this this show is smashing Ben. Right? We're talking about the decision we make to, you know, hit by it now.

I would love to understand maybe, like, when you what is your process? I know you've got different lanes of different players that you collect. What what is your process when you're trying to acquire specific cards of those players?

Like, are you, more mostly interested in following auctions? Do you like the buy it now format? Like, what is an I guess, my question is, what is the ideal, way to buy cards for you? I think it's a mixed bag for me.

Like, sometimes I I like following an auction, understanding, hey. Where is this gonna go? Where is this market gonna go? It gives me that gut check of where is the Warner market today versus where it was when I started.

But I also love the buy it now feature. When you understand the market, you understand your prices, understand pop reports and things of that nature, and truly what's rare and scarce in the Warner space or in any of my PC space.

And then, you know, just to be fully instinctual and fully, passionate and click that buy it now button.

Actually, current, currently following an eBay card that's at auction, and I'm just wishing, like, I wish this was by it now. Like, whatever the price was, I I just can't wait six days for this to end.

Like, I just wish it was by it now, and I would pay whatever and face the consequences later. But it's just that balance between understanding your cards, understanding who UPC, and then understanding what the market is saying.

Alright. So Kurt Warner is hall of famer, Super Bowl champion. Like, he's got all these accolades. I know he didn't. He wasn't a hot prospect name when he started, but he plopped in and defied all the odds. They made a movie after him.

The rest is history. My observation for as good of a player is Kurt Warner is historically it does not feel like he has the collector base to follow it as many other hall of fame quarterbacks. I've tried to dig into this.

I don't know if it's the fact that the Rams moved, if that plays a role in it, if, you know, he spent time forgettable time in New York, but then time in Arizona where, again, he got a lot of new fans and maybe some people remember him as a cardinal.

Is that assumption true, or do you have a ton of competition on these Kurt Warner cards that you're going after?

I don't find that I have a lot of competition when it comes to Kurt Warner. It's really around the parallels and the the sets that people are really focused on.

And I I find my biggest competition is early two thousands football collectors, where there is an iconic set, there is a an iconic parallel. One that comes to mind that I can't find is the the 2,006 gold extractor of Kurt Warner.

Those are locked away in collections because it's such an iconic card, and it's a hall of famer. Right? So it it's tough to find, and there's so many gaps and variations in his sets too that it it is a difficult player to collect.

I was listening to your episode actually this morning with with Chris and and Josh talking about rookies and and players' difficulty to collect at times, and it's just he is just a confusing player to collect.

Given given his gaps in his career, he's not included in some sets. You know, when he was with the Giants, he's in very few sets.

He disappears for a bit, then he appears on a bunch of cards with, the Cardinals. You know, he wasn't a collectible rookie, so he's in very, you know, unpopular sets to some extent or not in sets at all as a rookie.

And then he really blows up in 2,000 where he's included in all those different, sets that we're very accustomed to and very known. So it's you really have to understand your your Kurt Warner if you wanna go and pursue his best cards.

What has that done for you, knowing that he wasn't, like, a first round draft pick prospect in, like, on the side of hobby boxes and this and that?

Does it do anything for you that, when I close my eyes and think about Kurt Warner cards, like, the the first cards that I don't I I think about aren't necessarily his rookie stuff, but it is his, like, 2,000 stuff.

How does that impacted kind of your overall collected picking him as a player you wanna collect and collecting him, the rookie of it all?

Yeah. So for the rookie cards, I think it's extremely difficult, and I still find myself learning things even to this day after collecting them very, very intensively for the last four or five years.

I really focused on his kind of mid two thousands Rams, Cardinals stuff, Bowman Chrome, Topps Finest, those types of sets that I was really familiar with.

But I found myself as the the closer to his rookie year I I found myself, the more I had to educate and research and understand which sets he was in and why.

And there's a couple interesting sets wherein in 1999, I believe it was 1999 Collector's Edge, he wasn't included on the set at all, and then ended up getting in the the set retroactively more through, like, a shopping channel type, you know, exclusive product that was hand serial numbered to 500 because he was such a popular player, and the cards were just not available to to those collectors.

So I feel like it's really understanding that that rookie year, what parallels are are available, what are his best parallels.

Luckily, he is in the 1999 contenders set. Again, wasn't wasn't expected to be a big prospect, but he was kind of a deep track within that set.

And then his other really popular, rookie card is his Bowman's best, atomic refractor of 1999 as well. So there are some really cool rookie cards, but you really have to understand, like, what is his true recognized rookie year.

You know, there is some back and forth where he played professional football. Right? So he was in NFL Europe for a period of time.

He was in the Arena League, so he was a professional football player prior to the '99 season. So but it is widely accepted now that his '99 rookie card with the Rams is is considered his rookie card.

Alright. Let's get into the card, and this is the 2,002 finest Kurt Warner gold refractor PSA 10, which is a a fun grade to have on a card like this.

I'll just get out of the way, and why don't you talk to us about your acquisition of this card, this card itself, what it means to you, and then I'm sure I'll jump in with, some questions along the way.

Yeah. So this is a really exciting card, and I think this was a a big pivotal moment in my collecting journey.

It was kind of my first big purchase. I wanted this card. I had heard, you know, podcasts. I'd seen 2,002 finest on, Instagram and just thought it was a beautiful set, beautiful parallel.

Love the gold, love the X Factor, and I kinda made that decision of, hey. If I see a copy of this, I'm not gonna dilute my collection by just picking up a player that maybe I had some nostalgia for.

Like, I want a Warner to be my first pickup of of this set. So, had been looking around maybe two to three years for this card.

It wasn't popping up. I knew there was a pop one PSA 10, of the gold, so I I kept hunting. And this was really pre Instagram relationships or people DMing me about things available.

So it was really me in my own lane, learning how to search eBay, how to navigate this lane, and and how to find this card. And what ended up happening was I was actually on a work trip.

So funny funny enough, like, all of my big pickups typically happen when I'm I'm traveling where I'm the most uncomfortable, and I'm not in my own space. I don't have my monitors.

I can't do my research. But, I had a story where Brian or Prism Mike PC reached out to me with his Warner collection at the time, and I wasn't, like, coming out of an airport bathroom and and just saw my phone light up.

And then he was like, it's your lucky day. So it was that type of situation, but I was waiting for an Uber and just kind of looking through my my eBay, and I saw this card pop up.

And the the funny part of the story is that it wasn't just this card, it was also the the extractor version of this card in the PSA 10.

So both were listed at the same price, and it was kind of that, like, feeling where that meme where the guy's sweating, pressing two buttons, and you can't pick one which one to to smash on.

That's really where I was. And, like, I had thought about this card a long time.

I knew I wanted it, but I just didn't know which which one I wanted. And I was at that journey of my collecting where, you know, I I didn't really take I wasn't mature enough or confident enough to smash bin on both.

Like, retroactively, it's an easy bin on both these cards, and I would just figure out how to fund them later.

But I had the capital. I just I wasn't in that frame of mind. I wasn't mature enough. So I ended up going with, with the gold after a a lot of debate in my head, just going back and forth.

I think I got carsick on the Uber Uber ride there just staring at these two cards and thinking about which one I would want in my collection, and ended up going with the gold because because I figured if I'm ever gonna do the gold finest run, like, I'm gonna have to start with this, and this is a a tough card to come by.

That's incredible. I love all the, commentary and painting that picture for all the listeners.

So may was it as simple as I'm gonna do this gold finest run, and there's not this linear path for me to go, or I'm not as interested in doing the path on the x factor front, and that was how the decision was made.

Or was it more, like, maybe when you were evaluating going picking ones out of 20, obviously, the x fracture is slightly more rare, but it's kinda like splitting pairs.

It's it kinda comes down to which one do you prefer, like, better. Maybe, like, when those two were in front of you and you had to make the decision, like, what what was all factoring into that decision?

It it was a lot of different things. Luckily, price wasn't a factor because they were literally both listed for the exact same price.

So it was all things equal from a financial perspective, which card would I rather have? And I I had a lot of difficulty choosing, and it really was kind of the the pressure of the moment.

I also know on these types of cards, like, they don't last long when they show up on eBay. So there was that external pressure coming in and, you know, that good anxiety to make a a final decision.

Luckily, I had done a lot of research on these cards in the past too, leading up to that moment where I knew although the the gold's at a 25, I knew it was only a pop one at the time.

That pop report has changed since then, but I knew the extractor was a pop three. So I was thinking, you know, gold finest run, getting a card that that doesn't show up often.

It's it's a pop one. It was kind of a no brainer to some extent. And, yeah, I just hit that that bin smash really hard and, felt those post bin smash feelings really quickly as well and that post anxiety and just what did I just do?

This is the biggest card I've ever purchased. Is this is this where I'm going with collecting cardboard and and pictures of men on it? Like, it it was it was a tough thing to digest. And then, slowly, I just looked at the card.

I was like, I'm so happy. Like, I have no regrets for pressing pin on this, and, I'll find a way to fund it through things that are in my collection today and and selling off some of those things.

So for anyone who doesn't know, the parallel structure on o two finest football is stupid simple. You've got the refractors out of two fifty.

You've got the golds out of 25 and the extractors out of 20. No one of ones. It's got a unique look and feel and design. I would say these cards have become really popular in 2,000 football circles.

The time of release of this product, I I don't think it was blowing the doors off of anyone. I honestly in looking at it back now, you know, so many years later, it feels like there was very little interest for this product.

But now this is when you're talking 02/2010 football, this is one of the first sets that always comes up in conversation.

What do you think it it is about o two finest that is kind of captured football collector's attention, you know, so many years later?

So it's a good question because I don't really know. Like, the aesthetic is it just feels early February to me. I can't explain explain that from a visual standpoint, but I shared this with Austin, Carlson Cards at one point.

And it's just it looks like an old VHS startup type thing. When when the movie begins and you get that kinda, like, coming to a theater and you type, preview, and it just feels feels two thousands to me.

Like, it feels that era. It feels that level of nostalgia. This the actual players in the set are so nostalgic as well. It's, you know, Ed Reed's rookie year, so that's something that's really iconic.

And I know a lot of us that grew up in two thousands football, Ed Reed's one of those players you never forget. And I think it's just the simplicity of the parallels to your point.

You know, there's there's a refractor at a two fifty, there's a gold, and then there's the extractor. It's not a very complicated set with a lot of things that you need to educate yourself on.

It's very simple, and it's very aesthetic based. So, that's kind of my assessment and my personal opinion of of why it's so popular, but it's just the the players in the set, how it looks, and the simplicity of how to collect it.

Good defensive class. Dwight Franey rookie too. So a couple a couple hall of fame defensive guys. Alright. Before we move off of the card, I I'd be remiss to not ask.

When you bought this card, which it sounds like when you got the card, it was a pivotal moment in your collecting and maybe a a bigger purchase than you were used to making, did what did the buying this card and owning this card, how did it change just the way you view your overall collecting or war Warner Lane specifically?

I think it made me realize that I really want the the hard, rare, scarce, fine Warner's.

It was, you know, one of those situations where maybe I would have put this card on a pedestal at one point and said, you know, it's not attainable.

It's not within my budget. But then going through the process in acquiring this card, it really made me understand, oh, I I have a capital pool here that I can play with.

It's not just about the money in in the bank account. It's about, hey. What do I need to sell? What do I need to move?

How can I trade things to acquire the cards that I want? And I mean, you know, I'm like any average 30 year old at this point where I have a mortgage, I have a family, I've I've bills of responsibilities, I don't have an endless budget.

But it made me think about collecting in a different way where it really is that capital pool, and how do I move things around, and how do I, acquire things that I still want within my price range and and within my budget and not, you know, failing to pay the mortgage or failing to get food on the table.

Right? So Yes. Amazing card. Glad you could share that with us.

Wanna run through some recent bin smashes stuff that I tried to customize these listings to what I know about you, and what a great way to kick this off with, one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, definitely on my Mount Rushmore.

When I go back, Alex, and I'm like, just like kids are in bed, no sports on TV, and I just wanna fire up Peacock, and I'm going back and just watching a classic match.

Nine times out of 10, I'm picking a Bret Hart match because he's the excellence of execution. And this is a 2022 impeccable Bret Hart 2006 hall of fame autograph out of six. This thing got been smashed for $9. 99 99 on 04/07/2025.

I think what's cool about these cards, I know that these have been a chase amongst wrestling card collectors, but in an era where it's really hard to secure a, really premium card with a nice bold on card autograph, you're getting that with this impeccable set.

I gotta ask, like, you're a Bret Hart guy.

You collect Bret Hart. Obviously, there's probably the Canadian factor that helps with that. But maybe talk about Bret Hart and what he means to you, and then, get into any thoughts you have on this card.

Yeah. I would tying it back to our earlier conversation, this is almost like the Toronto Raptors of wrestlers. Right? Like, this is the the the Canadian, born, someone who excelled, someone who is amazing.

And you'll tell with all the the players I PC, it's it's really around that hard work, determination, that technical skill, not being as as flashy as maybe the rest of, the athletes out there, but really being dominant and really doing, doing what they do at a high level.

And, really, with Bret Hart, there's so much history here being from Calgary, Alberta and what his dad meant to the country too in terms of, wrestling and looking at Stu Hart and Stampede Wrestling and who he developed and the dynamite kid and all these famous names that people are really aware of.

And his lineage and and his family, you know, we have Owen.

We have Natalia. We have, Jim Neidhart. Like, you have all these people in this family that were just so talented at what they did, and it really came from, that legacy that started in Canada.

And when I think of, again, Stu Hart, I think of the Hart House and the dungeon, wrestling where you really learned your technique and learned how to be a wrestler and and be proficient at wrestling.

And just his focus on, being technically the best and and working hard and telling a good story, it just all that wraps together and just a passion for Bret Hart.

And I'm I'm like you, like, when I came back to wrestling, probably during the COVID era, I turned on Bret Hart because I remember all those awesome matches.

I remember WrestleMania thirteen with Stone Cold, and now it's a hall of fame match as the inaugural hall of fame match.

So it's it's just a wrestler that when I think of wrestling, I think of Bret Hart, and they're just synonymous with one another.

Awesome. What what do you think about the this, set from Impeccable? So I I love Impeccable. And and if you look at my collecting, it's, it's very, you know, shiny base cards.

It's not many thick cards. I think my OCD gets a little wonky when it comes to the thick cards with things on the corner and the edges aren't aren't as crisp as the the chrome.

But Impeccable is always a set to me that looks so good with the the canvas and the art on the card is always, phenomenal.

And when you look at, you know, what the moment the different moments that it catches within the card, it's just fantastic.

And and WWE has done it even better with this set than I would say football has in terms of capturing those main moments on the canvas and hand card or, on card autos.

It just looks just beautiful. Alright. Moving away from Bret Hart, but I gotta ask you.

We gotta take WrestleMania thirteen with Austin off the table when I ask this question. That's that's my favorite match of all time, so I was, like, really happy they honored it, this year in the hall of fame adding the first match.

What what outside of that match, do you have a favorite Bret Hart match? Yeah. I think it has to be, Roddy Piper WrestleMania eight, match.

He was just it was just handing handing over the torch in that match from Piper and putting Bret over for the first time, and it was two Canadians that worked together and and partnered and just made something beautiful.

And it was cool because Piper went to, he actually went to my dad's high school.

Like, it was just like a cool story and someone I always followed, and, it was just an awesome Canadian moment. Oh, man. That a a a very, very young me was in the Hoosierdome seeing that match live.

And, you know, later, in retrospect, you know, when I was little, it was all about, like, being scared of the Undertaker and then the double main event and all the theatrics.

But, you know, as I've aged and you go back, it's undeniably undeniable that Hart and Piper is by far and away the best match on that card, and it's not even close.

Totally. Alright. Let's move over to another guy you collect, which I'm curious to figure out why you collect them. It's the 2,000 playoff contenders, Sean Alexander, rookie auto, PSA eight, selling for a $105, which is awesome.

It Crazy. To see a card of a player of this caliber in a rookie year not be thousands of dollars. So you're an Alexander collector. What is it about, Alexander that you want to collect him, and then any commentary on this card?

Yeah. So I think it's pretty similar to to Kurt Warner. Like, I was always looking for players that that shared my same faith and, someone I could really trust in in terms of their on field performance versus their off field antics.

And I I didn't want, you know, d u DUIs or anything tainting my my professional sports collecting or enjoyment.

So I always wanted to make sure that they were a good person on the field and off the field. But it's also Sean Alexander was was crazy dom dominant for his period of time.

Like, I think of the the 2005 MVP, year where he rushed for over 1,800 yards, 27 touchdowns, broke Prese Holmes' rushing record, for touchdown that had been set, I believe, the previous year.

And then following that, Ladanian Tomlinson had broken, Sean Alexander's record, but he just had such a dominant year with the the Super Bowl performance and the Super Bowl outing.

It was just an insane player, and it I just I don't know. Just looking at him screams football to me too, where he's just so so gritty in a time where people care about all the different, gloves they wear and the arm armbands.

You have a guy with taped fingers and elbow pads looking like it's the eighties just running for touchdowns and running over people. It's just, everything about the guy, I just really enjoy.

And I to my like, from my perspective, he was an MVP that's completely underrated in the hobby and and doesn't necessarily get the hobby love he he deserves. Yeah. It's funny, you know, being an MVP, being a running back who is an MVP.

I don't know, man. Like, you're the only guy I've seen really collecting him. And maybe there's been some Seahawks collectors from afar, but no one I it really rings a bell.

Is is is Alexander like Warner where there's just not a ton of competition for his stuff, or is it different? Yeah. So with with Alexander, it's mostly going against Seahawks fans and and early two thousands collectors again.

Right? Like, it's not people specifically seeking out Alexander cards. It's more of the the sets and and trying to complete their sets from a Seahawks perspective.

But a lot of Seahawks fans do reach out to me, and we do share our our 2005 love of Alexander. And he was also I was thinking too. He was on the Madden 2007 Yeah.

Cover as well. So and that was one of the the more iconic games in the lineup, and I was a huge Madden fan growing up. So just all of those components, he just staples into that early two thousands football.

And I remember when I was in my collecting journey and kind of looking for more PC players, to look at, I was actually watching an episode of The Office where Daryl, famously trades Sean Alexander for a defense on the episode.

I think it's the Christmas episode. And it just brought up that name. Like, it just triggered that those memories. I was like, Sean Alexander was awesome. Like, let me look into his card market.

And I was just surprised and shocked. Like, you're getting a rookie auto for a $100, which is insane. That's amazing. We're gonna close out this segment by going back to Warner, and we're hitting a rookie sale.

And this is the 99 playoff contenders Kurt Warner speed red autograph. This is out of a 100 PSA 10. There are different levels to this different there's a blue and a gold.

Gold. Yep. Are the other the three tiers of this. This sale was pretty impressive. This is a, $3,150, March 25, bin smash. What do you think about, are you have you are you familiar with this set?

What do you think about this set? I've always thought, you know, I know they're super condition sensitive, which is impressive that this is a PSA 10, but what catches your eye about, this rookie card in Warner's catalog?

So I would say even though I don't own one, this is probably his most iconic rookie card.

It just has so much legacy with the contenders set, and there's, so few that are in good condition too given that likely when people were pull pulling them in early ninety nine, it it was into, you know, binders or in boxes because Warner wasn't Warner yet.

Right? So that comes to mind a lot. I would say even collecting four years ago, I thought these were out of my price range.

But now looking at how much they're jumping up in value year over year, I'm I'm kinda kicking myself for not picking one up in in kinda 2020, 2021 when everyone was pushing, Zion PSA tens.

But this is just such an iconic card, so much legacy. Like, when you think of Brady and and football cards, you think of the 2,000 contenders, championship auto ticket.

This is kind of the the Kurt Warner equivalent. Again, when you look at hall of fame players and and iconic cards, I still see this as undervalued in comparison to the rest of the market, but it's a card that I have my eye on.

I know I had a shot at the the Finesse Gold, earlier in in 2024.

Didn't quite work out, but it's something that I still have my eye almost daily to see how I could use that capital pool that I have in my collecting world and and go for this card.

What's fun of I'd love your comment comment on this, but what's fun about the Warner rookie stuff, even though, like, the card profile might not be, like, the best for for me as a collector, I really and I know he didn't win, like, when he was winning Super Bowl, it wasn't in this attire.

But it's fun to see him in this throwback Rams look, which was the actual look when he was the rookie. It's just weird to connect those eras through a jersey.

What like, do you ever think about that when collecting Warner? Because he's been in several different, uniforms if you're collecting kind of his entire career. I think of that all the time, and I really love this.

This was his first kind of awakening in the NFL attire where he he won MVP. He won the Super Bowl. He was iconic in this jersey, and then they transitioned to the gold and navy blues.

And I think that's really where, you know, Marshall Faulk started bursting on onto the scene and Tory Holt and Isaac Bruce, and they really truly became the greatest show on turf in those jerseys.

And then I think of, you know, he had a transition where he was with the Giants, which I actually owned a Giants jersey of Kurt Warner. I think I bought it for $10 at Foot Locker when I was, like, 12.

And then he transitioned into Cardinals, and it was the Cardinals rebranding year. So a lot of the the first few Kurt Warner Cardinals jerseys are photoshopped in the the old kind of, sun whatever logo from Arizona on his shoulder.

And, I even own the the one of one Warner where it's clearly photoshopped in 02/2005, Bowman Chrome.

But it's just that cool era where it's just so difficult to collect Kurt Warner, and you really have to know the context of where he was playing, when he was playing, what his jersey we actually wore because it's it's confusing if you, if you don't know the player.

No doubt. That was fun digging through those bin smashes. The last part of the conversation, I always like to bring up a card that I found on eBay that, would be interested to kinda get your view on the card.

And so the card I'm pulling up you know, it's not every day, Alex, I get a chance to talk wrestling, so I'm gonna pull up as many wrestling cards as I can.

But I I think what I wanna know is and I'm pulling up the listing now, and it's the 2025 Topps Chrome, Bret Hart, Superfractor, one of one, PSA card number seven.

Like, I have not been a collector of this new stuff, but I I see a card like this, and I see, like, old hard foundation, Brett Hart, like, imagine, Jim Neidhart right behind him, and I'm like, this is a pretty cool card.

Have you gotten into the new Topps Chrome stuff? Like, what is your position on that? What do you think about this card? So I think this card is amazing. I own this card in in the gold version, actually.

So typically with wrestling cards, I try to go after the the serial number in the gold of my jersey number from college for football. So I'm always looking for the 47 out of 50 in in my favorite wrestlers.

But this is such a iconic photo. Like, this is when I close my eyes, this is how I think of Bret Hart, like sunglasses and all. But, yeah, the new the new set, I don't know.

I'm I'm struggling with it a little bit, moving back over to tops and having golds go back from out of 10 to to back to out of 50, and I just thought Panini did such a good job with the photography of all the different sets.

Like, I thought Select was a really good product with introducing the ringside.

I actually just completed my Bret Hart ringside gold PSA 10 run. So I don't know. I'm still living in that Panini era a little bit, and I have a lot of nostalgia for that era too given that was when I jumped into wrestling cards.

I was started getting introduced to the 2022 Prism release, debut release, and just looking at some of those prices when they first came out. And I was like, woah, wrestling cards are are becoming the real deal.

And looking back at the 2014 Top Scrum stuff too in terms of that introduction series and, collecting some of those. But this is a card I might have to, you know, log off and and go look at it and stare at it a little bit.

So you said something there that I'm curious about, and I've had the same difficulty. And it's the going back on the the parallels and going from okay.

It was tops it was cool when it was golds with 50, but then Panini came in for three years, and we got accustomed to golds being 10. And then all of a sudden, golds are back to 50. How have you like, what did what are your observations?

Just you as a collector in, like, all of the that transition and all those changes. Like, obviously, like, you you still have bought a gold. You mentioned you own the gold version of this in your collection.

But what what sort of, like, thoughts have gone on in your head as you're trying to navigate if you should buy a certain card or wait? Like, how have you kind of processed all the that based on the change?

I think I've struggled with it. Like I said, like, I'm I'm just really in that goal that a 10 mindset, and I I love the golds, and I can't seem to get over it to some extent.

It's like a a breakup you're still thinking about, and you didn't really want it to happen, but it it happened organically.

And I think, like, the one thing I really noticed when when TOP started releasing the product was that the pricing in the market tried to copy the panini market as well.

And I was like, guys, this is out of 50. This isn't out of 10. Like, this is this is much more available to me and much less scarce or rare than what an out of 10 was.

And it felt like I don't know. When you owned one of those out of 10, it felt like you're you're part of this club, and you met other collectors online that own that card, and you felt like this tight knit group.

And now it feels much broader than that and almost like a shotgun approach.

So it's just adjusting to that that mindset and kind of, well, do I wanna pursue a different parallel? Is is this doing it for me anymore? Is there something outside of gold that I should be chasing?

And I think I'm just struggling with that. And I I tried a bit of a catch all approach at first and just picking up golds that I I thought look cool and a lot of inserts as well, but it just it just didn't do anything for me.

So I'm still navigating that journey and navigating those products as they they slowly get introduced again. You are not alone, my friend.

Just just know that, there are others like myself going to similar, challenges. But this episode was so much fun digging in, talking cars with you, getting opportunity to talk through your amazing o two Werner Gold Refractor.

You can follow him at leather helmet cards on Instagram. Alex, appreciate the conversation. This was a lot of fun. Appreciate it, Brett. And I think as my final words, I did end up acquiring that that Xfractor, that same copy.

It ended up on Austin's Instagram a few days later after I smashed bin, and I, I pestered him for about two years until, till it landed in my collection as well.

So I have both now. So it's full circle. A happy ending to the story. That's incredible. Thank you for sharing. We'll have to do this again down the road. Alright. Thanks for having me, Brett. Appreciate it.