what's going on everybody excited to be back in the saddle with my good friend kevin the captain thirty seven we're going to be talking about show season i have a lot on my mind i was just planning my travel last week in a lot of different places kevin was asking me what i was doing at different things which my answer is i don't really know yet i'm figuring it out in real time but it's a good time to talk with kevin i always like to get his perspective he goes to a lot of shows and we are chatting ahead of this there's a lot on his plate coming up so we're gonna do that there's gonna be a lot of people out there going to show so hopefully this will be helpful but without further ado kevin welcome back man how are you doing well brett thanks for having me on man it's always awesome to come on and chat cards let's let's preview with the audience your upcoming schedule just based on everything that you're hitting to just really illustrate the show season that just one individual in this space has ahead yeah so you know i average probably forty to fifty shows a year but between end of may through august it's it's my super bowl season like it's it's just it's crazy so memorial day show small local show next week once june hits things really get insane i basically tell my wife you know nice knowing you i'll see you end of august right but there's a family vacation built in so but first week in june is midwest monster so coming out your way can't wait for that one of my favorite trips of the year always great going out to see d and d card exchange guys andy and company and all my friends out there for that there's the causeway show in boston that carver all puts on then we have the weegan sun show ec three con the next weekend then there's a huge show in marlborough mass on the northeast card expo for three days the next weekend after that so that's literally every weekend in june booked and then obviously we know we have fanatics fest and we have the national alright in july which basically feel like they're within a week of each other so that's gonna be absolutely insane so the summer is crazy all this while you know coaching barbell hoops workouts my son's summer league i'm now head coaching that and travel baseball so it's it's crazy times man but this is what i signed up for i'm here for all the smokes so it's it's it's it's fun times it's stressful but once you're there at the show man it's it's awesome you can just feel the excitement obviously as we lead up to the big shows and fanatics festival national that is quite the schedule and i wanna dig into in this conversation kinda how you're preparing and your mindset going into that but figured we'd first start with just an overall kinda industry's theme like current state of the market this feels obviously year has been insane it's not slowing up there's a lot of things happening that are the reason why this hobby is expanding obviously you've got fanatics you've got the tcg of it all you've got companies expanding maybe as someone who's ever since i've known you you've been setting up at shows preparing for shows especially during this season maybe what feels different about this show season compared to other years yeah i mean the market is insanely high so that's a huge difference right and then we're like approaching covid times if not some cards have surpassed covid numbers and it was different right because during covid there wasn't shows right because life was shut down you know this is just absolutely insane it's like you know i'm from the start of the year like you know i i i i every card i bring to a show for every show nobody does that but i do it just to you know i wanna make sure a i'm being fair to people i don't have something too high but b like if something went up i wanna know about it so i can make more money right let's you know i'll be very honest there right and you know like the the jordan and the brady cards that i had priced on january first compared to now they literally go up every shot it's crazy right i look at i i went back and looked at my spreadsheet from the national last year and the cards i sold every jordan and brady card has doubled or tripled it it's absolutely insane i thought i was doing well in sales then it's crazy so the the market has definitely changed it's insanely high in a sense in a scary way a little bit but i will say this like the the difference because people are trying to say this is covid blah blah blah blah blah right the difference is people have sparked up with their buying since covid like you you're not seeing you know the giannis prism's psa ten base cards go for six k right you know people want goat stuff right and stuff that they're very confident in long term there's a high demand for that you know this is around the time of year i start getting a lot of dms of people asking about brady stuff in my pc and things like that and you know i've had people offer me like double on a card last comp like just because they want it in their collection right so people know what they want and and they're not afraid to go after it which is also kind of a word to the wise leading up to the bigger shows like you see something you like to start a show go get it like there's no waiting till sunday anymore for a better deal that doesn't exist anymore right like there is high competition to get rare awesome cards of goats right so i mean i think people have smartened up there the one thing i'll say that worries me right is and i talked about this on one of my lives post chicago show once when i got home from the chicago sports spectacular after two days of being stuck there which was insane but story for another day but the the comments of you know when when i'm looking up and listen there's certain stuff like i went to chicago looking for vintage in jordan i was perfectly fine paying full comp for it i didn't care certain stuff i wanted to have in my showcase like you know at some point for me as a dealer margins mean less i wanna have good stuff in my showcase if that means i don't make x amount i'm okay with it right and sometimes you can pay full comp for a card and and do well trading which i i do i trade a lot so you can do well there so i don't get caught up on percentages as much it's more quality of cards in my showcase that's what really i'm kinda my business model but you know this i'm looking up card jordan cards and these these people price twenty thirty forty percent of our comps and i'm just like hey could you match the last comp like this this four pretty consistent comps no you know it's gonna be worth more by the national so i'll just keep it so so when i start hearing things like that that's a mindset of people thinking that their car is just gonna keep going up every month and that is not going to happen so eventually things are going to come down they're going to level off and those same people who wanna keep holding out because they think they can get more are the ones who are gonna panic sell like crazy when stuff starts to come down and that was the perfect storm in covid that when things started to come down a little bit people freaked out massive panic sale the market completely crashed right so it it feels it feels like a recipe for i would i won't say complete disaster like it was post covid with how much things came down but when you when you're set up at a show and you're starting to price things way over the market because you anticipate them going up to that point i don't see how that's a successful business model you probably just shouldn't shouldn't be setting up show anyway but that's the one part that kinda worries me but i mean obviously you know the the the the difference now is the market's insane right so i'm just i'm i'm so excited for the bigger shows this summer to see how they go you know but it it's very clear that people want high quality cards of high quality players it's not this you know young prospect game that's kinda running the show like it has been in the past or like it did during covid people have smartened up and you know it's very clear right now too that comps only matter on certain stuff right like you know there are some cards that they just they they pop up once a year or you know some cards that pop up once every two years right so comps are kinda out the door there if you want the car and you're confident in the long term gotta make a play on it above comps right and i'm kinda seeing that more and more that's that like you mentioned you've gotten double last comp on specific cards and i wanna maybe like ask a question about that specifically because i know there this season especially at the national there are times where you're just maybe displaying cards one time a year and it's the national and these are cards that you obviously are cool with keeping because they're great cards they don't have a rich sales history they don't transact a lot maybe they're one of ones maybe they're just stuff that no one's seen in a long time i think it is easy when you're going to the show as a as a walker and you're buying and you have this mentality of oh i can go and negotiate and try to beat this dealer down to get this card that's easier to maybe do when the there's you know a hundred sales that over the last three months it's not easy to do when it's a card that the person who owns it really loves but maybe is just testing the waters i don't know like how do you advise like individuals who are going to be entering show season who like for instance walk up to one of your cases and there's a brady there that's only there one time a year how do you how how did you even start that conversation that's productive because i feel like so often like those types of chats can be transactional where somebody tries to offer you something low and you're just like they don't necessarily get the context and the full story of why this card is important and how it's not just like every other card maybe in your case like what is the most productive way maybe to to to like have those conversations with people while it shows this season yeah i mean i'm very open and honest with how i price stuff i mean i go live before the national and and show all my cards with all prices right and i'm not a guy that's gonna have something not priced in my showcase to put the old good old not for sale tag trying to you know fish out insanely high offers right so it's gotta be an open dialogue both ways so this is where you know and i think we'll talk a little later about online dealing versus in person dealing people who struggle socially and are kind of maybe a little introverted at shows this is gonna be tough for them right because you gotta ask about the card you wanna inquire like you know i had no problem somebody asked me hey you know ken where'd get this number from is it i can't find anything on it you know i i have no problem explaining my process but like you said there are certain cards i take out one time for the national if i don't sell them i i put them away for the next year and i'll be very open great example i have a i had last year at the national i don't know why i put this card out i i i would've been so upset if it's sold like disgusting but and and multiple people asked about it right but i had a brady only has to my knowledge he has one gold refractor auto like like you don't see them right so you combine gold with auto so with bowman sterling it's a sticker auto see the two thousand eight two thousand nine and but the sticker's so well designed the card you can you don't can't even really tell it's sticker auto and it's bgs nine five ten nice gold shine number to ten and i forgot what number i cleared out at but people were asking about it well i can't find anything and i said i said find another brady gold refractor auto right like you can't right and the number i headed out seemed high at the time but if i would have sold it for that number i would have been like so devastated so you're not gonna see they won the national this year i'm just putting that one away but great great example of there was nothing there right but if somebody would have made a play on it and offered me you know ninety percent of my score would let it go right it's just people were more scared because all there isn't strong data right like if if you go in to try to find try to buy rare cards with fear you got no shot right like you have to have the conviction of hey listen i've i've seen this you know looking at this player's market maybe some other rare cards what they've done from this point to this point like this could be an awesome opportunity right so i i think that you know people are so caught up on i need to see a comp right versus a do i want the card right you know is it a card that you know you're probably gonna tuck in next to you with your pillow you know after the show for a couple weeks right like if you want it we'll get it man right to a certain extent i mean you wanna pay an exorbitant amount based on what the market projects the card could be right but i i think that you know going into the bigger shows this year like you have to have a game plan and know what you want and be prepared to pay very very strong because that's the it's it's a super competitive market right now in terms of the the the the quality cards people are going after right like you know i i always tell people at these bigger shows that come up they oh i like that i'm gonna come back later i say well you know it could be gone and it it happens i sound like a used car salesman saying that but i'm trying to be honest with people right and i i there's multiple examples of that happening at the national last year and i i i think it's gonna be a similar situation this year so it's it's you gotta be able to have an open dialogue with the dealer in terms of kinda how they got to that number that's where social skills and and you know comfortability come in with you know talking to people and you know going through the process right but you also be ready to make a move right in this market right now when something super cool and rare pops up or seen in a showcase fear or hesitation is gonna get you the card that's for sure that's a good one i wanna maybe get your observations on what feels maybe healthy and what feels maybe a little overheated i think when i think of overheated i think of like these biggest stars younger that transacting a lot of cards but then i think about like i think about wendy and what i saw last night and then i think about i'm watching caitlin clark every night she's playing out of her mind and so it's like that might seem overheated but these players are very very good they're like stepping up to the plate so i don't know like you see a lot a lot comes through like what do you based on your analysis heading into this season like what do you think feels like pretty healthy and what do you think feels kinda overheated yeah rare low pot stuff of goats feels healthy and i know numbers are high right but you know you're okay picking up a card and then it not transacting for a while like that's actually how i prefer when i pick up cards long term right like i don't wanna see them all the time right so things that seem unhealthy to me the case hit market seems so unhealthy like insanely unhealthy and you know people might look at it oh we preached this last year all this stuff is worth double or triple okay like let's i'm i'm more of a ten year guy like i wanna see where these things look you know it it just amazes me the jump and and then the high pop numbers on like these kaboons in downtowns and the numbers they're doing like you know i i just i don't think that stuff's gonna age well and then you know as someone who owns a tom brady bowman chrome rookie psa ten that market doesn't seem healthy right now right those things were literally like seven k like last year at this time now they're eighteen to you know nineteen k it seems insane right michael jordan flare rookies right seem absolutely outrageously priced right now right come to somebody who owns one you'll see them in my showcase right but like i i have ones that i had i i i have like six or seven oh man my kid just would've went crazy when i said that but six or seven jordan rookies to start the year right and i've won now and the one i have that hasn't sold it's like gone up fifty percent from january first it makes no sense right so once again we're approaching covid numbers on on some of that really high now listen i i love the jordan rookie i love the time brady bowman chrome rookie right but i can't advise people to buy a brady bowman chrome with the the numbers are at right now right like i was selling psa nine to the national for like two grand now they're like five to six k like it seems absolutely insane so healthy parts of the market low pop goat rare stuff i feel like even though numbers are big i like having stuff that transacts less right because you know there's always a i i feel like a good buyer pool right like there's gonna be a buyer pool always on flair jordans and on brady borman and cronos right it just seems with how quickly they went up and and how readily available they are like i'm just so curious to see what happens when you know they start to tick down a little bit what's gonna happen right but i think repacker market is driving those a lot like you know nobody is gonna be upset pulling a jordan flair rookie or or brady boman chrome in a in a in a repacker break right so but what's that repack of game gonna look like in you know five six years down the road i don't know right so i can't advise getting into cards like that at this point just because you know i've seen this game before right like you know they were they were big numbers during covid and came crashing down i i don't think we're ever gonna see a a huge crash down like we did during covid just because i think times have changed you mentioned fanatics to start i mean they're you know say what you want about fanatics right but you know their goal to ten times the hobby they're they're definitely getting there right like they they are expanding it's it's insane you know athletes involved and just it's it's it's crazy right so you know it's it's the hobby is much more mainstream cards are much more mainstream i mean i i during dinner the other night we had the tv on the background and kevin degandhi was he has a card segment he does on espn now right and he's ripping packs with with i forgot what athlete it was right so like you know the it's it's it's big it's not going away right and you know it's only gonna keep expanding and obviously as that happens and more people are brought in that's gonna keep the market strong i know maybe for anyone who hasn't listened to you on this show or on your instagram before maybe just making it very clear like this is your this is what you do professionally like this is your job you are you you you all you coach as well but like you are dealing in sports cards you know for your livelihood like you're going to shows you're setting up so like you're very and you're very experienced you've been doing this for a while based on based on just like your situation when you're heading into this stretch of like busy show season do does anything change for you just in terms of like your approach mindset mentality for like these three or four months not not much once it's here it's more before it happens where our mentality changes right like i have spent an insane amount of money to stock up right on quality stuff right like you know even where like my wife was used to this even she's kinda looking at me funny a little bit like oh my god like you're buying a lot right so it's more like i i look at it it's more my approach changes the few months before this starts right so you know at this point i my inventory i have i'm loaded with stuff right because i just well you know especially this year with how strong the market is the the the craze around cards right now i just think the summer shows are gonna be absolutely insane you know you have smaller local shows like shout out to the flipping card show jeff who runs it in woburn mass his last show he had to stop letting people in because they're overcapacity right so he had people were waiting outside to get into the show because there were twenty people inside right and i heard similar things happening to shows in my area and we have we have show overload in my area that there's there's i'm not you know we're spoiled with how many cards there's only a card every weekend right which is good and bad right but for for to have that show overload and have some of these quote unquote smaller local shows doing that well i mean i just can't imagine what the summer's gonna look like at these bigger shows so it's more my approach changes you know after basketball season for me so i'm a high school basketball coach for those who don't know fifteen years in so that season usually ends february hopefully ends in march because it means we made a good run which we did this year but at once that season ends kinda give myself a week to die down and i just go to the inventory and and mark where i'm light would i would i need more so that's why i i didn't plan on going to the chicago sports spectacular but it was kinda like a last minute thing like the week before where i'm like alright i'm light in vintage in jordan i need to go there and get this stuff and i was ready to pay super strong which i did and i came over to bunch it's basically all gone so i you know so i got it's gonna be tough to reload again but it is what it is right so it's more of a look at my inventory see where i'm light try to buy as heavily as possible from march to may and then you know let the cards fall where they may come come summer show season so you know my approach hasn't changed during show season it's really kinda the couple months leading up before in terms of making sure i'm i have the inventory i need to you know give people the the showcases they're used to seeing when they come by you know the cap of three seven stable you mentioned you are in an aggressive buying mode right now even so much that your wife noticed how aggressive you've been buying sports cards is it is that more opportunistic like you're seeing certain opportunities and you you're looking at like this is this is stuff based on my experience like i know i can sell for more when i'm at shows is it like one off individual cards you've never seen before that you're you're getting a crack at it and you say let's do this like maybe talk about just your buying and and why right now you're you're buying more than you've you've probably have before yeah so i mean you know it's it's more i don't wanna phrase this like it's more the stuff i know is going to move right so you know need slash opportunistic slash when something walks up don't see every day you wanna make sure you get it so great example shriners show in wilmington mass last month three day show i was there with my friend chris the stress cards j j b thirteen rips my buddy paul four zero one cards and then gray it was gray's first multi day show he freaking killed it man like this kid oh man like it's it's it's it's so fun to watch right now the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree right it's it's so cool to watch like you know to the point that like it was kinda humbling because you know you're starting to get comments from parents that shows like hey like kid like this is really impressive to see you know like had one guy come up to me last show and say i just wanna let you know i follow you on instagram and it's so cool to see what you're doing with your son to the point that like people wanna deal with you because they see what you're doing with your kid like i'm like well i'm not trying to use him for my advantage but yeah i guess it's a nice consolation prize right but it's just so cool to see him learning about social skills and money and cards and just see how passionate he is and the fact that he still is just as pumped about getting a two dollar card versus a two hundred dollar card right that's you know i wanna make sure that's it's always a fine line there right but you know like shriners show i had end of the show like last half hour guy walked up with five brady gold bowman chrome refractors and i'm like okay i'm i'm leaving here with these right so you know it's like know those will move i also know like a big part of me buying too is if i don't sell this type of stuff i'm okay holding it right like i think that's so important when the market is crazy because like you're buying some big huge young quarterback gold prison card right and you don't move that thing like good luck come october when his team is one and three and he's thrown six interceptions right like i don't give a shit if i don't move a brady gold or a jordan rare in like i i don't that that's so i mean while i'm buying heavy and strong like i'm also comfortable in the sense that if i don't sell what i wanted to sell i'm okay sitting on this stuff and i think that's so important in a market that's absolutely crazy right because i just i know brady's and jordan's not gonna fall off a cliff in a month or two which this young stuff can like wemby stuff right now absolutely insane where his stuff is right and i've had i had three different texts i need a big wemby or dms i'm like you are crazy to go get a big wemby right now right yep he dropped forty something last night he hit a freaking logo free which was insane right one of the unbelievable basketball game that series is gonna be insane but like you're crazy to go get his stuff right now well what if he wins the championship i get it well what if he you know tears his acl in game two right it like it this this you know insanely high risk and decently okay reward i feel like right with with that stuff so i'm i'm big on buying stuff i'm comfortable with if i get stuck with it in in a market like this and you know back to those brady golds like i ended up buying them all i paid super strong on them but i knew i said i know i can make this i also know that i can do really well trading these type of cards right because you know part of my other process here picking up bigger cards like i know i'm light like right now i'll be very honest with my inventory i'm light on tom brady slabs from like two hundred to a thousand which is rare for me right but i moved eighty of them at the national last year like so i was depleted after that and it's just it's tough to come by so like when i buy some bigger brady gold i'm hoping that's i actually prefer to trade hopefully somebody walks up with a a case of they got twenty different brady's labs in that range i'm happy to trade down on stuff like that so that might be a way for me to get into some smaller brady cards i need by having the better stuff that people don't wanna be sheltered money for but they wanna trade into so i kinda have that mindset as well so it's it's opportunistic it's need it's you know knowing what looking at past nationals and knowing what i moved so that's kinda where i'm at with what i'm trying to pick up right now i i'm not sure i've like reflected and shared this publicly but i mean i maybe it should be very apparent and evident i want your feedback on your mindset on this but i think about my job and i also think about this collection i have and i love this collection but if there's an opportunity that i can sell a card because of the moment and get some money that i can then go put back in the business that i think will help generate more revenue for the business or need it to support my family like i'll do that because it's just a like a priority thing i think about like just cards i know you've owned or currently own when the this you're you're in the same spot like you're supporting your family like how do you decide whether if the market is really hot and you've got a card you know is gonna perform well like how do you how do you decide whether like i know i can get a lot for this and i know this can lead to a couple things but maybe right now it's just better for me to hold this versus putting it in your your showcase to see kind of what bites you get like how do you how do you think about that so funny you bring this up because you know we're getting a pool an above ground pool let's go literally just had this debate in my head like it it's emotional man like you know i i feel like there's so many dealers out there that just don't give a shit about cards right it's just money like i love cards man like i and i i always say i hope that comes true i think people who know me know that like you love cards man but like the other day like you gotta you know the pc purchase coming right my yearly pc purchase for the bigger shows is coming and i'm gonna have some tough calls this year because there are some cards that i have that i'm into for freaking pennies if compared to what i can get for them right now and like so there's one card i just locked in a deal with to move with the national this year not some crazy crazy monster i think a monster to a lot of people right but then then people are gonna be shocked when they see that i moved it right but i i got a number that like i i have to move it like it you know it it just helped pay for something real life right so i think you know going back to the conversations i had in chicago with dealers who were priced so outrageously and they're like oh it's gonna be worthwhile by the time of the national like it's okay to be smart with your pc right to the point that like i'm not saying sell it all because the market is the highest it'll ever be it's not what i'm saying but like it's okay to take some money off the table and that's a mistake i made during covid i didn't sell enough right because i was just like oh my god this is great i have all these cards they're worth so much more money they keep going up and i'm gonna you know own you know i'm gonna build a new barroville basketball stadium in the town of barroville for for my basketball team right and then shift off a cliff and i was you know devastated like wow you moron like you could have sold this for x and you didn't right so part of that is me learning from that right but the you know i'm i'm we we both worked hard to build our collections right like uniquely curated collections right like so it's tough to move those pieces right that you're attached to that you've had for literally you know five eight ten years which i think is like a foreign concept to some who are new to this like owning a car for that long like no you know the cars i made the biggest profits on are the ones i've held the longest it's it's it's it's simple right but that seems to be a foreign concept to some of the younger people getting in now like gotta get rid of it know like it's okay to make some long term plays right which i've tried to teach grayson right like buddy like you know you wanna buy some cars you wanna buy that car for three bucks you think you can get five cool but like you know let's think about what you want what do you wanna keep for the for the road down the road right so he just came to my office yesterday i'll show you real quick the this brady spectra passed seventy five data i saw this new showcase i wanna make a play if i wanna keep that one for a while let's get a deal done so i'm like tear drops down my eye yes son you can go after that big brady and keep it long term right you're you're learning the ways right but it's tough man but like it it's i might have some cards out in the showcase this year didn't expect to have out i think that's probably going to happen but i'm attached to my cards man i love car i love painting cards love brady cards that's my where my heart is but end of the day you know sometimes it just makes too much sense to move it and you just you can't be the type of person who and i say this but i still am this type of person a little bit but move a card make a huge profit and then it moves for or it goes up a lot like you can't you can't keep the ex girlfriend folder like with all these cards you used to own you get upset about like you know and there's a couple of my head popping up right now who i i'm still devastated i shouldn't have moved from that but it is what it is right that that that that's the that's the game right so i think this year going to these bigger shows you know as people fill up their ammo boxes i like to call them with cards going into the to for trading or whatever else like don't be afraid to take some money off the table and and take some of the big profits whether you're using it as a trade piece and getting much more trade value than you get into it for or just selling it like you know we've just seen this script before it doesn't benefit me talking like this in terms of my business model like in terms of you know i want you to buy my cards right but gotta be some caution level too because things are insane right now right in in certain certain areas are are freaking crazy right they go cards going up with literally every comp like i had couple of jordan inserts i picked up that i haven't put out in the showcase i was saving them for the national i looked at what they're doing the other day i'm like oh my god it's it's doubled i picked them up three months ago that's that's insane that seems weird right but you know when the pc purge comes there's gonna be some cards i looked at where i paid this amount and now they're you know three thousand percent higher like it's it's gonna be tough not to throw those out and at least feel the waters right despite how much i love the cards so it's it's a it's a tough call you know it's gonna it's gonna take multiple captain diets sitting there and kinda figuring out what's gonna come to the national and what's not gonna come but like you said man like we're we're doing this for a living so sometimes you gotta make tough calls like if you know you you if somebody comes and offers you you know five times what you paid in one of your andrew luck black finites what do you do right like you don't wanna freaking move you you no no plans to move those right but like you know all of a sudden oh man what what could i the things i could do with this money that would increase my value you know it's it's it can be tough calls man i hope that doesn't happen to you because you'd be put in a real tough spot yeah don't don't don't you know those are probably right on your desk right now as you're having doing this podcast so but don't do that to me exactly right so we we covered a little bit on about like mistakes collectors are making right regarding like everyone it's so easy to get caught up in the like young soaring athlete whose cards are you know to the moon and i think we could beat that until we're kind of blue in the face but i don't know i like one of the angles i wanna maybe get some perspective from you on is like on this thread and these cards like i'm i'm never going to have these cards for sale but if somebody really wants them then they can slide into my dms and and give me that stupid offer but so many people never start that way they they they ask if it's for sale what's your best price it's like well it's not for sale so yep these mechanics we have where like it's just like if you want the card like give me tell me what you want tell me start it like you're the one coming to me maybe like i feel like that's a huge mistake i've made this before i i know now and being in this that if i really want the card like i gotta be aggressive with my offer because that signals to the individual who owns it that i'm i'm serious and i wanna play ball but i don't know like get into that a little bit because i think that's an important topic especially during this time of the year when there's gonna be amazing cards that aren't out or maybe cards that don't have a sticker on it but like how how what like what's the right approach on this from your mindset i think you just summed it up pretty well actually right like if you so i'm very open with my collection my collection is all on my flickr page link in my bio of instagram right shameless plug there right but this fold is marked for sale for trade or pc like if you are gonna try to get a pc card and pry it out of my cold dead fingers right like i'm not giving you a number like i you out of your mind right and that that listen i'm not being hypocritical there like i'm a big person on having prices on cards and showcase that's the stuff i have out that's available i have prices on right this is my pc right this is stuff that you know is is near and dear to my heart you wanna get one of those cards you better come with an offer i've had it happen right and you know the the the funny ones i get like oh you take this and then oh we take this we take and then they come up like thousands like why don't you just offer that from from the start right like but if you wanna show somebody you're serious about trying to pry away a card that is in their pc that they haven't made available you gotta come in strong and and and show that and you the the word you use is is the perfect word serious you're gonna show you're serious right like i'm never gonna give it well what do you think this well i i don't i don't know what it's worth i don't know you tell me right like i i you know and i guess that's a it's kinda nice being in that position of power sometimes right like when you got stuff that people want that you don't wanna move but you know you have all the cards right there's there's no you know what i mean like it's you know so and and the cards that i've moved from pc folders are people who have come in and made offers that were strung out of the gate and i sit there and think about it like alright that's a really good offer but you know probably not gonna get it done then they come in higher and it's like okay now i gotta really think about seriously moving this right because listen man it it's it's it's morbid to think about but at the end of the day all of our cards become cash at some point whether by you whether by your family when you're gone like you know what i mean so you know me a dad two young kids doing this full time you know when i get an offer on a car that i think is pretty close to the ceiling for in the next ten years it it's probably time to consider moving in that's kinda how i look at it when it comes to moving some of these rare cards that i don't wanna move but at some point i gotta be sensible right and understand that you you have a family to take care of as much as you like sitting there with your shiny cards right it's you know you gotta you gotta kinda make some smart decisions from there but yeah and and and this is around the time it's it's a yearly thing man like it it starts now where i start getting cold dms on cards in the pc folder right so my brady shield i get dms about all the time my brady twenty fourteen flawless patch auto right some golds i have right tops chrome finest whatever so it it's it's it's you know random dm season has begun as as show season picks up it's kind of a direct correlation there and you know there's certain stuff i just i i i usually start those conversations with that's not available it's in a pc folder that's not available and then if somebody keeps harping it's like alright well what would you offer me right like i'm not i'm not the first one to throw out a number there so there i think there is a process to to trying to get a a pc card out out of somebody's pc and it's not what's your number on this what's your best price this card did this i think it's no it's it's just throw the number out man start the conversation and it's either gonna be no thanks or it's gonna be oh now that gets the person thinking about whether they actually wanna move it or not that's good perspective i wanna hit maybe like this monster sales element the and this is top of mind for me because we covered it last week just on my network when ryan bannister announced that he won the randy orton wrestlemania patch autograph for forty two thousand dollars story oh man oh it's such a cool story i loved it was such a awesome i felt very honored that ryan used this platform to share the news and one of the cooler stories you're gonna see now great great tease by you by the way on instagram i'm i'm like driving and and i'm like woah woah the poll with the big news what's going on like i i was perfect well well played by you set it up man that was awesome like that that by the way that was really fun a little behind the scenes it was really fun to see when you do something like that who is interested and who wants the news before everyone else and some of my favorite people in this space i'm not gonna mention any names dm me and they're like what's what's going on i'm just like hold tight tight name three of them right now but we won't do that fuck alright exactly so this this sale happened which was transformational for the modern wrestling card market it became the second highest wwe modern card sale that there is which is big news now when a sale like that happens you know what's the the next shoe that dropped on my instagram the next day were everyone sharing their randy orton cards because presumably the mindset was well these are worth a lot more now it did this so mine's now worth this right yeah yes and that that is that happens all the time and it especially like during show season people will say well did you see this set like how do you think about that like one monster sale in a specific of a specific card of a player and like how it impacts or has no impact over the rest of that player's market like how do you think about that it has no impact at all none like in i mean we'd say it did forty but did forty something k right yeah i mean how many people in the hobby can afford a forty thousand dollar card like a one percent probably right like there's so many these monster sales that happen that don't affect ninety nine percent of us that people care so much about like that that's a different realm for nine for for you know a a lot of the hobby right so it it just it blows my mind that like not all randy orton cards are worth more because of that sale right so there's a massive you know tom brady prism gold sale like all my gold cards aren't worth more because of that sale that means that two people or three people really wanted that damn card and they said i'm winning it and that's what but like it only it only takes two to tango right like as the old saying goes right it only takes two people to get that card to go from twenty k to double because they just really want the card right that's not gonna happen on your random you know more common randy orton cards right so it's the same thing in any market right with with nate put insert whatever player here there's some monster sale right it it doesn't mean all of your cards that play went up i think that's such a common misconception and people people who will never own cards like that try to use those sales to justify their lower end cards being worth more and it makes no sense that's not meant to be an insult right but i feel like this a huge chunk of the hobby is so concerned about these super insane high end sales and wants to comment on them when they never play in that that game right like worry about your cards right i these crazy monster sales that happen with the one percent of people going after these like it doesn't impact the rest of the market that just you know that might sound harsh but it i think that's the cold hard facts let's talk about we alluded to it earlier but in person versus online i would say especially in these bigger shows the majority of us are transacting online online and maybe aren't buying as much in person you're selling i think a majority of your inventory in person maybe talk about the dynamics of like what works better in person from your perspective what works better online and yeah just dig into that a little bit yeah so i mean my you know i have a unique business model where i've almost strictly gone to just selling at shows and and doing in person i'll be very honest i've had so many dms people trying to buy cards from me i've just said i'm not shipping high end cards there's so many issues with fraud and mail theft going on it seems like every week on instagram see another you know ten twenty k card gone like and i can't afford to take a hit like that like this is my livelihood right like so you know i also think in a way it almost makes it like oh man i gotta go see kevin at show right so it kinda it it's like a and and then anytime brett i do a story sale would that happen maybe twice a year move a ton of cars because it's like oh my god he's selling stuff right like you know this doesn't do this online a lot so my business model has almost gone to literally ninety eight percent in person at shows so for me i like in person especially for trading i think it's a lot easier to trade in person and i actually had somebody did a deal with recently who said this we're trying to do something online it's like hey you know what i'm just gonna come see you i want the card let's get it it's easier to do in person i'm like yeah thank you i i completely agree with you right because you know what i i think that the the advantage doing online is it lets people feel almost more comfortable in the sense that i can take time i can research i can put my thoughts maybe bounce ideas off somebody else we all have that those two or three go to guys that we talk to like hey thinking about making a move on this what do you think the value is what do you think about me giving up this we all have that you can't do that in person things are happening you know to especially at a show like the national right like you know if things are happening too quickly sometimes you might feel pressured to doing a deal you don't feel comfortable with afterwards which is the worst feeling wouldn't want that for anybody but that doesn't happen when you do online deal and i get that so i get the attractiveness to doing things online but in person like if we're doing you and i do an online deal you might be comping cards and using a certain app i'm using a different app like if we're in person we can talk through it together right so doing that trade and i can be open with you like hey brett you want this ten thousand dollar card you know if we it's gonna be straight trade i need eleven thousand of value i'm gonna be very upfront with you if i'm not no cash involved i want more value and i think that's fair i think most people would do that right although you're starting to get now these dealers who all i'll take your cards at eighty percent that that's i think that's total bullshit and then i guess that happens a lot in the pokemon world but it's starting to trickle over to the sports card world anybody who wants to take your cars at eighty percent and trade for their car to full comp is it's ridiculous right so i think this you you know understand your full training gonna give up more value i think everybody understands that right but especially the more cards and dealer takes but this whole eighty percent thing is just blowing my mind right now that would just never operate like that but yeah i think the trading part is easier in person i think buying and and selling is probably easier online because you have more time to research and and really do your due diligence right where you might feel rushed or pressured at a bigger show especially if you're dealing with a dealer who's got a line of people at his table which for those listening like you go into the national fanatics fest this stuff happens right you know my i i only have a table at the national i don't have a booth so just for showcases that it's it's you know it can be tough to get in and squeeze in at some point right so you know you might feel that pressure to to get a deal done that's why it's important that's why i always put my inventory out there before the show people can see it they can do their homework that way when they come to me in person hopefully things go a little quicker right but i guess long story short trading i think is easier in person because you can kinda go through and you know look at like pull up card letter hey this is what i'm seeing right here right versus buying and selling especially a bigger lot is much easier to do online because it's time consuming to look up everything you know understanding where where both parties are on a card right or multiple cards right so there's there's gonna be room for both for sure as we move forward because things are just getting bigger but my business model i'm i'm almost strictly in person i'm i'm fortunate to be able to do that i'm sure there'll be a time down the road where a year is not going where i want it to go and i gotta start moving some more stuff online right but now knock on wood we're not at that point now where i can just get things done in person and not have to worry about you know losing sleep over cards being in the mail and things like that one of the things that i have started to notice in as you being someone who's selling mostly in person i would love your perspective on this is i see this i don't think it's meant necessarily a trend i think it's always been happening but happening but maybe it's just me being more observant of it where individuals are going to shows to buy and then they get the access to the cards and then they sell it online and because they're buying it at a show no one knows what they bought bought it for and there's no price history and and an app like cardladder and not that that's a a bad thing or a wrong thing like it's an opportunity like if someone's going out to a show that that they can buy whatever the hell they want they can sell whatever the hell they want but i think there's like it's pretty important for just like people to be aware that like this is part of what's happening and maybe just like share your perspective there because i just feel like the opportunities as we're entering show season a lot of the buying opportunities are in person at these shows so like how do you think about that and like what are what are your observations around that topic yeah this is also why like you know comps on card letter aren't the c all end all right because there are so many deals going on at shows that you have no idea what things are transacting at right especially with your cars like i mean i have multiple cars this year that i've got well above the last comp on like i don't and you know there's always that argument well you should submit that like you know maybe but like i would never do that i don't talk to ip the most annoying dms i get and i feel like i i i find some way to stake this in every time we're on when i do something in a cartoon i because i i post what sells and what i pick up and what'd you get for that like who who are you like i i don't know you and you wanna know like i it's just i'm never telling you for me it's a respect thing to the buyer people might not wanna know what they what people paid for cards right and stuff like that but it's just such an annoying dm so there's my yearly working out some way into the conversation you go but yeah i mean it's it's you know people always wanna have like you want your conviction in a purchase comes through data a lot of the times right and you want data to to see alright i this it it it's worth this or at least it was worth this back then so i think it's worth this now there's so many transactions that go on at shows that people aren't aware of and just can just tell you firsthand it's not all about comps especially in the rare stuff right like you're you're we're in a market now where people are picking up stuff at premier auctions where you see the comp and they'd move it for twenty percent higher at a show right that that's happening right now right so if you're going after rare stuff sought after stuff like the the comps are definitely not the and if you think if if you're all about comps it's not gonna get those cards it's just that the way the market is right now that but i it it it it is a little crazy to me that i see these bigger accounts picking up these bigger cards and then they get like prime example and it pains me to talk about this i love this set so much but twenty fourteen flawless i have a brady from that set first year but there is the emerald patriot logo patch number to five bgs nine five with a nine auto which i think is part of the reason why it's been passed around that car has been passed around so much a six figure car like it literally was somebody sent me screenshots somebody bought it in dallas and sold it like the same shop we're talking probably a i don't know two hundred k card like it it's insane like the so concerns me a little bit when when these bigger cards start kinda getting i call it potatoed right getting passed around because eventually these bigger cars need a need a final home to kinda age gracefully like a like a fine wine let it age over time and do well but but you're seeing stuff bought at these crazy golden premier auctions that do crazy numbers and they're they're they're in showcases it shows so you got dealers buying these and trying to make more like that's and and the the comp is the comp that's what i'm trying to say where you know it's not all about comps in a market like this especially for the rare sought after stuff of the the the high end key players you know and if if that if your mindset is strictly comps you're gonna miss out on some opportunities i feel like i wanna let you cook on this a little bit because i'm interested in this and i think about it seems like every time we talk we've gotta bring up twenty fourteen flawless in in in some way shape form but you brought the example of kind of this emerald going through the flipper vortex and you look at twenty fourteen flawless obviously a very important set in the panini era game used patches everyone's seen the brady stuff but i think about like those cards and you've got you know your your out of twenty five there's a fifty out of fifteen right too there's a twenty five a fifteen a ten a five and then the one zero one yes okay so you've got all you've got this ladder of in this hierarchy but but inside that you also have like quality of autograph because you know you've talked about on here just like it's not the easiest surface to sign you've got the the patch itself quality of patch so there's like all of these dynamics going on when a card where you've got an out of five and i don't know what the patch looks like or what the autograph looks like but when you have a card like that that's not it's it's very low numbered like going through the flipper vortex like how does something like that impact the rest of that subcategory of tom brady's cards yeah so first of all i i literally wrote down flipper vortex with a with a smiley face that is that is awesome i'm i'm totally stealing that that's awesome write cards in the flipper vortex right and that is definitely a card that's stuck in the flipper vortex i don't think it affects it a bunch to be honest with you that is not affecting the dms i get about that card that that i have number twenty five version right but i do so that card's i i i i don't like to let me i just popped up before i don't i don't wanna degrade a card right and affect the card's value but i'm an auto snob i'm very open about this right like my buddy joaquin who i you know we do all the breaks together and stuff and we you know i'm like great great hobby friends he's chasing a certain player right now i don't wanna talk about it because i wanna kinda blow his spot up but he's he sends me pictures of the auto he's like what do you think because he he's like i i wanna be i want a perfect auto on a car right and i i look for certain thing though and i i've i've owned probably five of brady's twenty fourteen flawless patch autos obviously some of them are much much much much much cheaper but i they've got bounced out of my pc because the auto wasn't perfect so the one i have right now is freaking perfect at least i think so anyway but on that emerald the auto grade's on the back of the slab so part of me wonders like if people like get a oh oh wait it's a nine auto like i don't know like i i feel now it's known right but i feel like when it first was getting kinda passed on a little bit people didn't necessarily you know put two and two together with how important a ten auto is on a car like that so but it just so create in the the patch on it's unbelievable but i i i find it crazy these awesome cards will kinda get and there were some very high end tom brady prism gold purchases done privately and then all of a sudden they're in an auction the next couple weeks i'm just like it's great like it it's it's just it's so it's that's that's the market we're in right now man it's it's but it's crazy to think a card some cards like that which you'd think would not see the light of day often kinda get in the flipper vortex so to speak which is the most awesome phrase i'm i'm totally stealing that but yeah it's great but at the end of the day don't i don't think it affects different copies a ton because you just don't see them right like like it's to the point now where like you go to the national you expect to see that card which is crazy right but like you don't expect to see a gold version letterman you know number to ten you don't expect to see the a nice four color patch like i have in a show like so while that card wouldn't be surprising to seeing someone showcase at the national it might be a good prop bet to make in you know national vegas odds but i i don't think you're see a ton of tom brady twenty fourteen flawless patch odds at the national had to hit that one let's round the corner on this i wanna maybe get some perspective from you this year has been insane you can see all the reporting in card ladder we're feeling it we're seeing it everywhere cards are more mainstream than ever before more volume higher prices like as someone who's been doing this for a while does does this change anything about kinda your mindset does it alter the way you think about your job and how you operate like how do you think about this especially heading into the show season yeah i mean i would be okay with the market coming down a little bit it's it's easier on me i was at having this conversation with someone at the show last weekend it's easier when the market's lower to buy right because right now it's tough to buy because everybody thinks their cards are gonna keep going up and they don't wanna sell and you know like we talked about a couple times during this podcast so you know buying becomes more strategic and then end of the day like you know when i do this pc purge i might have to take out a couple pieces that i didn't think i'd move and just kinda feel the waters right so i'm still picking up enough from okay like i i i don't have any major concerns but you know it's definitely tougher to operate in my world with my specific business model when the market is insane and you have people who think their cards go up every time you know they they ship something out things will go up twenty percent when the the other person gets it and vice versa buying and selling right so i i guess you know you might see a couple other pieces out that i wouldn't expect to put out the national this year and bigger shows but end of the day i'm fortunate where you know i i built a network you know people know me locally you know they wanna move something whether it's a hundred dollar card or something higher i i get enough people come to me where i can keep operating you know but it's definitely more difficult right especially with you know repack competition and things like that and you know but end of the day i kinda have an acquired taste with what i buy like i put my want list up on instagram often before shows and there's just certain stuff i still refuse to buy because i just don't wanna get stuck with it and i i think just to kinda go back as wrapping this up i think it's so important in this market if you're a dealer to be buying things you're okay being stuck with right because if you're spending high money on a card like am i okay having this for five six months never know it might not move right it it it might not move and the stuff i'm trying to pick up i'm okay sitting on right whereas there's other stuff that's doing insane money right now that i just wouldn't feel comfortable withholding for more than a month right so when you when you operate basically strictly in person like i do i'll be much more conscious of that i don't send things to auction and and like these other people doing things like that so my business model is different and unique in that way so you just gotta kinda understand what your what your endgame is right and you know if you're a collector right like going to these bigger shows like you gotta have a focus on a game plan and you gotta have a budget right you you i i think especially at the fanatics special in national there's gonna be so much freaking money thrown around that room sometimes you can get caught up in it and you can end up buying things you didn't think you'd buy and you get home you feel kinda dirty that's the worst feeling right and you know happened to me a couple times you know early on way back when like when you feel bad when you get home about buying a car that's the worst freaking feeling so like this year more than ever man the summer having a game plan on a specific focus and things you want and a budget is so important and then you know taking some cards and put them in the ammo box that you might not think you'd move but you're doing very well on that's it's a it's a way to take money off the table without taking actual cash off it i guess like make your profit through trade and get something you want so hey you know you feel you feel good about right in that sense hey i just made x amount in this card through trade i got a card i wanted that's a way to kinda cash it on profits if you're not really concerned with cashing in to get cash if that makes sense but i think it would be wise for everyone to before these big shows in the summer to sit down look at your collection look at the value of it compared to what you paid and maybe see where it makes sense to take some stuff off the table and where it makes sense to kinda continue to sit on stuff long term and they can be emotional decisions but at the end of the day all of our cards turn to money at some point whether you like it or not right so it might make sense to capitalize on some of those gains now while they're in your possession versus when they're in somebody else's down the road a lot of wisdom in this one if you are heading out selling or buying this summer you you need to listen to this one back and get your notepad ready kevin maybe run through one more time where you're gonna be and where people can find you yeah so before i run through the show just real quick as the national approaches i'll be going live a ton like i do every year so i'll do my nationals dos and don'ts live which i think has been very helpful to people going into that show i've actually had multiple people reach out already asking hey when's this going down like well it's may so i gotta figure out my life i'll go live with all my inventory we i'm i'm happy to line up deals ahead of time before fanatics fest the nationals so keep an eye out for that but memorial day show in mansfield mass next week i'll be there with gray on monday and then once june hits it's crazy midwest monster one of my favorite trips if not my favorite trip of the year out to indy then it's causeway card show then it's mohican sun show ec three con then it's northeast expo in marlborough mass that's literally four consecutive weekends in june then july fanatics festival in nashville and the anticipation every show i'm at right now locally there's always talk of fanatics festival in nashville like the hype you know is just it it's gonna be gonna a crazy summer and i'm here for it go stop at his table you can follow him at the captain thirty seven kevin always good catching up man thanks man appreciate it