Alright. Excited for this episode of Passion to Profession.

I was just telling today's guests that, I've been following their brand for, several years, and it's the fun part about doing this show is to, attach a a face or a voice for all you listeners with a brand.

And today, I'm joined by Stan and and Roger from four Sharp Corners. We're gonna dig into kind of their business story and everything in between.

But without further ado, Stan, Roger, welcome. How are you? Excellent. Doing well. Us. Thank you. So I was, I was doing a little bit of research on you all before, we hit record and realized that the business opened up in 02/2003.

So maybe just as, like, a a launching off point, I'm curious from your perspective. In o three, maybe before the business was was launched, what what was the hobby like?

What was going on in the space? What were some of those early memories and observations that you have of hobby life in o three? Well so I guess take a step back even a little bit further.

That's kind of the official formation of four Sharp Corners, but, Stan and I were kinda working together but independently, working other jobs prior to that at the real dawn of, you know, professional grading.

So it was it was more about Mickey Mantles and Ken Griffey Junior rookies and almost nothing else.

And so one of the things that that Stan and I did, this business kinda started as a means to further our own collections because there were a lot of niche players or maybe not even niche, but kinda secondary players to the Mantles and the Griffys of the worlds that nobody else was sending in for grading.

So what Stan and I would do is we'd partner on something, you know, break a couple boxes of 83 Topps football or something, send in all the Steelers for him, all the Raiders for me.

We'd get all the secondary hall of famers in nine or whatever for our own collections. We'd sell everything we didn't want, and at the end, you'd be left with more money and some leftover cards.

And so we said, okay. This is kinda cool. You know, it's a it's a fun and, you know, lucrative is probably too strong of a word back then, but it was a fun and somewhat profitable way to grow our own collections.

So, like, the hobby in terms of professional grading was just it it was completely different.

It was really still the traditional hobby of, you know, kind of our youths where, you know, people were walking around with a list and a notebook saying, I need these 12 cards to finish off my 75 baseball set.

And, you know, the a lot of guys were really just looking to finish the set. The condition didn't matter.

It was it was what you would think of. I don't know how how old you are, Brad, but we're almost 50. We just both turned 49. So it was it was still really similar to the card shows that we remember when we were kids.

What what were I guess, before you jumped in and did four sharp corners full time and you, you know, you saw the opportunity, I'm curious based on both your backgrounds. What what what were you doing professionally, both of you?

You got it. I was working on Wall Street. I was an investment banker for five years in New York City, and it was great. I was working, like, literally eighty to a hundred hours a week.

So I learned a lot. I made a fair amount of money where, you know, I was able to kinda take a step back and eventually take a take a chance on this without really risking, you know, my livelihood or my marriage.

You know, so that was that was the only job, real job that I've held other than this.

So I I've just gotten back. I'd played professional football over in Europe, and then I'd started working for DuPont, and I was like a, you know, a regional sales manager.

And so I did that for a couple years. And like Raj said, on the side, you know, we were fulfilling our own collections.

And one thing he didn't mention is that, you know, we grew up together. So we've known each other since sixth grade, and we collected cards when we were in sixth grade together, and we would trade back then, trade raw cards.

And, you know, to bring it up to speed in, like, o three, it's like the the industry finally got standards, right, when it came into grading and people know, you could apply those standards and understand what, you know, a card's value was really worth if it was authentic and it had, you know, sharp corners and a nice surface and great centering.

And so once we started to understand the grading game and understand, you know, the standards that were the grading companies were applying, you know, we were like, yeah.

We're pretty good at that that, you know, seeing those standards and applying them to to our card.

So that's kinda when, like Raj said, you know, it wasn't really lucrative at the beginning. We were filling our own collection, but we were like, oh, we might be on to something here.

Do, I I love how the bet was placed early on on professional grading. Turns out that that was a pretty good bet based on where the industry, is is go is go or has been and is going now.

Maybe for anyone who's listening and doesn't know, maybe talk about the importance, and I'll I'll pass it to you, Roger, but just talk about the importance of, professional grading and and your viewpoint and how that has helped kind of, grown for Sharp Corners?

Well, I think Stan alluded to it just a minute ago.

There weren't really standards. So, you know, when you were a kid or even even just an adult dealing with a dealer, if you went up to a dealer and they had a bunch of cards in in their showcase, all their cards were near mint.

Right? That was kind of the for a long time, that was kind of like the top end of cards, near mint. Cards right out of packs regardless of centering were near mint.

But if you are going to try to sell your cards, they'd be, oh, no, no, no. These cards are not that nice. These cards are x or v g. There were really kinda like three grades back in the day.

Right? V g, x, and near mid. So well, it can't always be that your cards are awesome and my cards are not. Right? So, you know, and then and then bring in the Internet where you don't even you can't see the card in hand.

You don't know the person you're dealing with. You know, you really needed something that would give you some comfort if you were spending any amount of money, that you were gonna get what you were paying for.

So, you know, I think, you know, professional grading predates the Internet by a little bit or at least the, you know, mass use of the Internet, but they're almost coincidental and it couldn't have happened at a better time because people started to transact in cards in ways they never had before.

So, you know, I mean, that was just there there were cards. You know, we grew up in a relatively small town. We had one shop here. We had another shop in the town next next to us.

But the the the cards available to you were were nothing compared to what was actually out there. You know? So I think that was that was the idea of, you know, I remember trading with Stan.

I I I think I still have a creased up Ken Stabler with me. He gave me back in the day, you know, that we probably called x because it only had one crease. You you know what I mean?

And and and we agreed on it, and the deal was fair and whatever, but I don't hold it against him. But, you know, it's it's just it was it was something that was definitely necessary with the way the the hobby was heading.

So you've got, coming off of Wall Street, you've got an ex athlete, friends childhood friends, who get back together and decide, okay.

We've there's an opportunity here. Like, talk to us about the moment of when you both sat down and were like, alright. We see an opportunity.

We're making money off of this, what we're doing ourselves. Like, talk to us about just, like, the starting of the business and and those early days, taking an idea and turning it into kind of what you're working on today?

So initially, it from my perspective was I was still working, and Raj had moved up to the Boston area, after, quitting his job at Wall Street.

And I was still kinda doing it a little bit on the side. And, you know, at the time, I think my sister and couple people from church were helping out, like, sorting cards for us.

And I look at them when I got home, and Roger do some buying, you know, during the day, and he would do some grading. But it for me, initially, when it was, like, I went to my, you know, my boss and I said, you know what?

Kinda I'm gonna give this baseball card thing a shot. And, that was kinda we agreed at that point. You know what? Let's let's do this together. And I think a lot of that just comes from, you know, him and I being together for so long.

We look at a card, and we both think the same thing, like, immediately. Seriously, we can see a card. It'd be, like, 10 feet away. We'd be like, oh, do you see a sun ring on that card?

I'd be like, you know, that's just how we talk and that is we share an office, you know, twenty something years later because we talk about cards and, you know, have common interest when it comes to those things.

So, you know, I think for me, it was he had already quit his job. It was trying to figure some things out here in the card industry. And then once I had decided to take the leap, I think we're kinda both all in at that point.

The, I saw on the side that there has been which I'm sure the number has increased by this point, but 3,500,000 cards, submitted to ESA, which is, that's in that's insanity.

Like, help us understand the volume and how, like, that that volume has not only been stable over the last twenty years, but but continues to to go up, and maybe I'll I'll toss it over to you, Roger.

Yeah. That number is probably closer to, like, 5,000,000 now.

So that one's that one's a little bit dated, But, you know, it's it's so funny. The kind of the fake till you make it thing. I remember we sat down with PSA at the White Plains show in New York.

This is this is probably pre 02/2003. Right? Probably '98, '90 '9. And, you know, we're like, listen, we wanna be a big customer of yours. I think Sandy would say we're gonna be we're going to be your biggest customer.

Right? And the deal was we would submit to them 200 or more cards per month at $6 a card. Right? And that was a contract. We signed the contract right there.

You know, everybody's happy. We shake hands. We walk away from the table. First thing I say to Stan, where are we gonna come up with 200 cards a month? You know? And when I was I I meant that. We were we were scared.

And and, you know, it's just one of those things that that grew, organically, and it was it was something where he and I, you know, I and thinking about, you know, some of the some of the questions you sent over before this, and I'm, like, trying to think about it.

He and I never set a goal. It's it was never, like, we wanna do this or we wanna submit this many cards.

It was really, like, how many can we get done? And then can we exceed that? And and can we exceed that and exceed that? I for years, he had a a thing on his whiteboard about the number of cards submitted the previous month.

You know? And and really, like, when we were just doing that, every time we submitted more cards, the market was able to absorb them. And so it was like, that's when you're like, we're on to something.

People want what we're doing, so let's do more of it. So instead of buying two boxes of 83 football, you buy a case of 83 football. Instead of buying one box 89 FLIR, you buy 30 cases of 89 FLIR.

And that's, you know, and and then to do that, you gotta have you gotta let some of it go, and and and let other people sort the cards, or let other people grade the cards, or list the cards, or ship the cards.

Because at the beginning, Stan and I wore every hat. So, you know, he and I used to do the lion's share of the grading. And I know personally, I'm I'd be lucky to do 1% of our grading now.

You know? I I still I still pick and choose either better items or just stuff that I have some GI Joe cards over there on my desk that I'm a GI Joe fan, so I just wanted to do it just for fun.

Not not for monetary things. I just wanted to handle them and look at them and and and those are something I wanted to grade.

But now we have a bunch of we have a team of people that are pulling, listing, shipping, grading, and he and I are doing all the other Business stuff.

Yeah, business stuff. Not as much fun. All the responsible stuff maybe not as fun as some of those other things at times. Exactly. So so when did talk to us about just, like, the the customer growth.

Like, when did it move from, like, we're grading, I'm grading kind of our cards. We're starting a business to this to then getting exposure to take on consignments or take on customers to grade.

Like, talk about, like, kinda the view and the history of how you've grown your customers at Four Sharp Corners? So you so we to Brett, we still only grade our cards. Okay. So all the cards that we submit the PSA, those are our cards.

We when we take in consignment, we only take in graded cards that, you know, they've either submitted to one of the grading companies, and then, you know, we run that through our consignment process.

That was one of the things that we found when selling our own cards.

We're like, oh, you know, we got a pretty good system in how we can get our cards to market. So, you know, we can offer that to some of the customers that have been buying for us from years.

So we actually get many calls from old customers that, you know, have bought graded cards from us. Now they wanna consign with us or sell sell us their collections.

So that kinda came full circle. But, you know, there are a lot of companies out there that take submissions and take other people's cards. And, you know, when Raj says we've graded 5,000,000 cards, that's what we've graded.

Like, literally, like like like, we're we don't you know, we do our own thing, which is good because, you know, here at Four Sharp Corners, we've got, you know, we've got plenty of backlog of cards to look through and to to submit the PSA.

So, to take on other people's cards. I mean, we've been asked, hey. Can you know do you mind submitting our cards or, you know, can can we do an order with you guys?

And it's just like, it's more of a, you know, kind of a, you know, a little bit of an accounting nightmare trying to, you know, maintain other people's cards unless you have that type of system.

So, you know, our our system is conducive to submitting and selling our cards, and then we're also, you know, taking on other people's cards to sell as well.

How how many times have the course of the business as you've grown, brought in people, scaled, take on more, scaled some more?

How how often do you have to change kinda your your process on what you're doing, or do you have a process that you've defined that is in place that helps you scale?

Either one of you can grab that one. Well, I think it's it's probably more the latter where we've we built this based on repeatable transactions.

That was the first thing we agreed on. So it was like, what can we do over and over and over again rather than chase the new thing or go try to grade comics or, you know, grade wax packs or whatever.

It was always process driven. So, you know, it's it's how do you know, which cards do we pull from which product? What do what, grade do we grade them for? And, you know, how do we just do that and repeat it?

And and like Stan said, the process we came up with for selling cards was initially just an internal, you know, technology, proprietary listing tool that allowed us to list our own stuff super quickly and accurately.

And then as that as we improve that technology, we had additional capacity for other people's cards. And, you know, we've always tried to stay a little bit ahead of the market, and we are probably slightly late to the consignment game.

But we said, this is way this is the way it's going, and we need to jump in right now. And we did that about four years ago. Right? Yep. So How, maybe talk about the relationship with e eBay and just, like, the partnership.

How long have has Four Sharp Corners been selling on eBay and just anything you wanna add about just over the years how that relationship has changed or evolved?

Well, I think that was a part of, you you know, like, you know, we we've been with eBay for over twenty years.

You know, we've been partners with them for a long time. But, you know, once we decided to get into the consignment, I would say four years ago full time, it's kind of like we wanted to see what eBay had to offer.

And we knew, you know, I think eBay has was it a 33,000,000 customers? You know? So so we knew it was the proper platform for us to sell our cards.

And and so at that point, it's, you know, how much can the market absorb? You know? We we add other people's cards. Are we gonna have duplications? You know? Are we gonna be selling five Ken Griffey Juniors a day?

How are we gonna organize that? Because we don't wanna flood the market, but we want you know, we still want our value of our cards to go high, but we also want our customers to go high so that they'll submit cards to us as well.

So once we kind of like Raj said, we've got the proprietary software technology. You know, we decided eBay was, like, a really good fit for us.

And so, you know, we've been happy. We've been able to sit down with Selene and and and the team there at eBay and and really, you know, like, you know, they ask us things, problem you know, what problems are we dealing with?

What are the good things? What are the things, you you know, that can hopefully make the partnership better so that, you know, long term, you know, we can put a better product out there for for our customers.

And and and so we're one of the things that we've always said too is, like, we're in business to do business.

Like, if you do business the right way, you treat people the right way, you you know, like, people will send you their cards because, you know, we do we do it like they were our cards. You know, we we we take pride in it.

You know, we're not gonna let your cards sit around for six months before they go to market. We're gonna, you know, we're gonna make sure we allocate enough, you know, manpower to make sure that your cards get up quickly.

These are all little things, like, when we talk about the growth of the business, it was just trying to do things every day.

Like Raj said, we don't we don't set, you know, goals in which you know, what are our sales goals or what are how many cards are we gonna submit?

We just kinda, you know to me personally, it's like we come to work every day just to kick butt, you know?

Like, one day leads to the next day leads to the next day. And if we do that every day and you just keep stacking good days, like and you do it the right way, yeah, people respect that and people wanna be a part of that.

Roger, growth is very challenging, I'm sure. And Stan, you both know that. I'm I'm curious just through the course of you the your years in business and the changes in the hobby and in the environment.

Maybe talk about some of the biggest hurdles that you all have overcome when trying to grow four sharp corners.

You know, I think finding the right people to help us along the way has been a challenge. I I I alluded to it earlier, but giving up some of that control when when he and I were literally we were the ground floor.

We were the everything. You know, we were sweeping the floors and taking out the trash and doing all those things.

And I think letting some of that go, letting some of the grading go, you know, buying product and handing it over to somebody else. And, you know, I mean, I'll just say it. I think Stan Stan's the best grader in the business.

I think I'm the number two. Right? I know. I I mean that sincerely. I think we're as good as anybody. So do I really think I'm gonna give it to somebody that's gonna do as good a job as he or I?

Not really. If I'm being honest, and I know there's a, you know, there's an element of competitiveness there, you know, but it's it's the truth.

And so I think, you know, those things and one one of the things when we got into the consignment business, we just added an operations manager that we trusted, that was, you know, a little bit younger than us. He was hungry.

He was green to this business, but he was ready to work and ready to help us manage other people. And that's when, you know, the real growth of this business kinda took off. A year or two later, we tried to add another guy.

He didn't work out, but we didn't wait them. Then we immediately came back and hired a third guy who has worked out. And, you know, with their help, we've added a lot of, like, depth to our bench.

So now it's not just Santa Garage, you know, the next two guys, and then a bunch of people running around not really, you know, with any direction other than what these guys give them.

We have we have a real team. And, you know, one of the things that we've been good at is maintaining people.

And again, I I I I think it's because we treat people properly and we compensate them properly, and we have a number of people that have been here over twenty years.

You know, the the we've got three people four four people that are basically, like, the original out of the original six.

They're still here. From our houses. They're they're still here. You know? And we've got a number of people ten years plus, and it's something we're proud of.

You know what I mean? So, that's, I think, that's been the key to the growth is, I'm speaking, especially from my perspective, being able to let some of that stuff go and trust other people, to do a good job.

And you know what? They've done it, and and we've been rewarded.

So So it's it's pretty remarkable, I think, in any industry, especially this one to have people stay with you for that long, and I think that, to me, I read that as a testament to the culture that you've built and developed at four Sharp Corners.

How how would you describe, the the culture and and what you wanna be and how you wanna represent four four Sharp Corners, not only in the market, but most importantly, internally to your people?

Yeah. I would say internally to our people, it's it it's good to have those other two guys, Mike and John, that that that Roger spoke about because they're kind of the eyes and ears.

Right? They can see what's going on and and and what people at different levels, what what makes them happy.

And and so some of the things that, you know, we've really kind of focused on is, like, you you you know, employee, you know, appreciation and and doing little the little things.

You know, having the taco truck, like, spending time doing you know, spending time to get to know them a little bit more besides, you know, what we do here between these four walls.

And so, you know, when we're here, like, to stack those days every day and to have a good day, like like, we're pretty focused, like, really focused when we're here.

And so sometimes you gotta take time out of the days to, you know, get an ice cream truck and do something a little bit, out of the ordinary so that you can, you know, make sure the, you know, the the the right thing is still the right thing and make sure that your people are happy.

And that's good to have guys like that because the with their background, John John and Mike, they've come from that that corporate world where, you know, we're twenty five years removed from that situation.

And and and and like like Raj said, when we started, we were the ones taking out the trash and sleeping the floor.

So, you know, when you have that kind of growth over all those years, it's you gotta remember, you know, the important things, I guess. And some of that is that, you know, employee appreciation.

So I just I heard, one founder show appreciation for the other by, Roger saying, you to stand. You're the best grader I know, and then putting himself in second place, which is, which is which is pretty cool.

But I I'm curious just on the stand on the grading front. I've always thought getting going through those reps and sets when you get a card and you wanna send it to PSA, the more you do it, the the better you're going to get at it.

How have you maybe stayed ahead of the curve with just changes in manufacturers, technology, just being able to, like, pick up a card and being able to use your best judgment just as, like, the innovation around cards has evolved?

Well, I wanna start by saying, he's probably the smartest guy I know.

And I I told him that since we were kids. And and so, like like, there's things that I don't even remember that I just know he will remember, and I asked him and he tells me.

So so, you know, I think that's why we make a good partnership because there's a lot of respect for one another.

As far as, you know, the grading, I I I think it's, you know, I look at cards before they go out and I look at cards when they come back.

Right? So so if the standard is, you know, PSA tries to stay between the lanes for the most part, that's who we use, that's who we submit our cards to. But, you know, every once in a while, there is a human aspect to this.

And and so, like, you know, as they deviate or change a little bit, you know, I gotta make sure that, you know, our graders, our card screeners internally, like, make those same changes.

So we're constantly, like you know, we go out there, we get a batch of cards in, and, you know, they're missing certain things. You know, 78 baseball surface wrinkles are notorious.

You know? Like and we're getting fives and sixes and fours. And and and I and and, you know, I gotta go out there and explain that to them because, you know, 78 baseball are they're older than all the screeners that we have out there.

Right? So I gotta go out there and explain to them, you know, what PSA is looking at.

And so we've gotta change a little bit, and and that's that that's a that's a common thing. You know, like, but for the most part, I would say our biggest changes would be on the pull side.

Like, what cards do we wanna grade on a daily basis? Because grading fees go up. Right? We gotta make sure our margins are are are right or where where we want them to be.

So, you know, what we have internally, like, when we talk about software technology is, like, for the most part, 90% of what we're pulling has a specific pull for a specific grade, you know, goes to a specific, you you know, screener.

And so, like, organization has kinda been one of those things that we've kind of, you know, that we put so much time and effort to.

Like, we wanna be able to find cards. We wanna be able to produce cards. We wanna be able to do all those things in mass quantity.

Right? You've created this mouse trap. How do you do it over and over and over again? Like Roger mentioned, it's well, you gotta stay organized. You gotta make sure that that we're staying between the lines as well.

Like like like like, what is it that, you know, like, now all of a sudden, you know, like like, let's say, you know, a new hall of fame arises or somebody gets into the hall of fame.

How do we adapt that name and how do we, you know, make sure that we're be that that that player is being pulled out of all those new sets or all those old sets?

So it's it's just constantly keeping your finger on the pulse. Grading wise, you know, PSA, they're they're very consistent, very good company.

They do a good job for us. But, you know, there are some cards, sometimes we pull a hundred cards and say, you know, you guys mind taking a look at these because we don't see it.

At least tell us what, you know, what we're missing. And so to have that kind of relationship over the last twenty something years has been good because they they can tell us.

You know? Like like, yeah. This is this is what we see on these cards. So it helps us to kinda stay ahead of the curve a little bit.

I I wanna add something there. It's because this is something we talked about so long ago, and just listening to them talk made me think about it is, you know, we've we learned the standards, PSA standards, a long time ago.

And we we learned the way they apply their written standards.

Mhmm. Right? And so one of the first things we did, and I would recommend to anybody who's listening that, you know, is trying to do it for profit and not just for fun, is do not buy or submit based on hope.

Hope is hope is not a strategy. And, you know, I know everybody's talking about how tough PSA is being right now, And, you know, they they're definitely they're definitely tough.

They always have been. But if you submit based on hope now, you better hope to be disappointed because that's what's gonna happen. It's that that makes a ton of sense.

Roger, maybe I I'd love this has been sprinkled throughout this conversation, but maybe hitting this dead dead on just thinking about different there's so many businesses that are doing similar adjacent, things as for Sharp Corners.

New businesses popping up every day. Right? When the money comes in, there's gonna be more opportunity, more businesses.

How do you how do you think about, differentiation and making sure that what you're doing, set yourself apart for that customer who takes a chance with four sharp corners, that they come back to four sharp corners and then they don't or they they don't don't go try and use somebody else?

Like, how do you think about standing out differentiating yourself?

I think I think just the way we always run the business, which is, you know, Sam said earlier, do the do things the right way. So so always when we've been selling, we try to do things the right way. Now we take consignments.

We try to do things the right way. And I think, you know, one of the one of the things that differentiates you is is how do you react when something goes wrong? It's easy to do the right thing when everything's going right.

But if we screw up or something doesn't happen the right way, we own it, and we and we try to make it right and make you have the best experience possible under the circumstances. So, you know, I think we're really good.

I I don't think we have a lot of errors. But when we do, we own up to it, and we try to make the customer right, whether that's the person buying from us or a consignor, and, you know, try to make them happy.

And and that doesn't mean we we're not here saying the customer is always right because sometimes the ask is too big or the, you know, the expectations are too great.

But, you know, within the within the framework and being reasonable, I mean, I I think Stan and I have always tried to just, you know, do the right thing.

And it and it makes it really easy to run the business if you come in every day with that attitude. And and because it makes it makes the tough decisions relatively more easy. Right?

They got sometimes it stings financially or, you know, it doesn't feel great, but you're like, no. That's the right thing. And then when you go home at night, your conscience is clear. You come in the next day and you attack it again.

You try to get better. And and I think that's you know, I think he and I are really upfront with customers, whether we're buying from them, selling to them, or, you you know, taking in their consignments.

There's no there's no used car salesman here. You know what I mean? It's you you he does this you know, when he's offering somebody to buy something we had a we had a gentleman come in the other day. Unfortunately, his brother passed.

He brought in his entire collection. The guy was a long his brother was a long term customer of ours. And Stan didn't start at a dollar, and he didn't start at a million. They had a pretty good idea what this collection was worth.

And literally Stan said, I think this number is fair. And the and the gentleman said, I can live with that. I think that's fair too. And it's you know, he wasn't, you know, he wasn't a a rube that didn't know the value.

It was look. We're we're we've sold to your brother. We appreciate that. We're trying to buy this at a level we can make money, but not where, you know, we're just burying somebody.

And it's in business to do business. We have great relationships with eBay, PSA, all kinds of dealers across the country because, you know, hopefully, we're doing things the right way.

So the the way you talked about the the way you run your business, to me, it sounds like it's coming from a place of abundance.

So much of what happens in the hobby feels very transactional. It feels like people just quick exchanges that never lead to anything but that exchange in that moment in time.

How I guess, how maybe I'll I'll toss this one to to you, Stan. How difficult is it to make the decision to not take the money in that moment? And I'm not talking about the deal that just came in.

I'm just talking about a hypothetical. Taking the money in the moment when you can take a step back and know that by maybe breathing, taking a little patience, like, whatever's going to happen will lead to something more down the road.

Like, how long has it taken, you know, you, you know, running four sharp corners to to kinda come up with that that that moment of realization that that's the best way to operate as opposed to, like, getting the dollars right then in that moment.

Well, I think that's one of those things where you kind of when there's two two owners, you know, you you you hold each other accountable.

And and one of the things that I think we've said since day one is when you're right, you're right, you're wrong, you're wrong. And so like Raj said, like, that doesn't mean the customer is always right.

But when you've done something like, I think we had a 2017 Panini basketball case, Panini Prison basketball case come in, and one of our shipping guys, like, sliced it open. It was a seal of face.

And we're wrong. Right? So we we've gotta call the consignor and say, listen. We just sliced open your case, and it's not now you know, you know, it's not deal that's clearly worth less money, you know, what would you like us to do?

You know? And it's just being that way and trying to be a % transparent with people, and it's not so that it leads to more down the road. I think it's just because that's kind of our standard.

Like like like, when you're right, you're right, and and you're wrong, you're wrong. And and so, like, I don't know. It's kind of how we do business. It's it's it's kind of the people we are, I would say.

So I don't think that's something we've had to acquire over the years. I think that's just No. We kinda came in with that. And I and I mean, like, especially the relationships with the vendors.

I mean, you kinda have to respect that other people need to make money too. And if you're always trying to bleed the last dollar out of them, you know, you it won't lead to more.

So there is there is that element, but it's like if if you're easy to deal with, like, I there there are dealers we really enjoy dealing with. There are a handful of guys we go out to the out to dinner with every year at the National.

And there are a handful of guys that we grin and bear it, and we and we and because it's financially the right thing to do, but it's just a lot tougher.

And, you know, I I mean, I look forward to the days that I'm dealing with the guys that are easy to deal with, and and I wanna be one of those guys.

You know, it's just it just it just feels so much better, you know, than, you know, we we chose to do this line of work, you know.

And and my old boss used to say on Wall Street, he's like, we're not curing cancer here. And we're neither that's not what he and I are doing.

You know, hopefully, we're providing jobs and and building something to be proud of and, you know, we have a lot of people here with families, but, you know, at some point, you you gotta be happy doing what you're doing.

And and, thankfully, I am every day. Mhmm. What what it what in 2025 right now, what excites, both of you about what's happening right now in the hobby in the industry?

Well, I I would say it's funny. I I went to a little mall show on Sunday, and I told Hodge, I'm like, man, we used to go to shows, and everyone would know who we are. Right? We'd walk in and trade cars. Hey. You know?

What's up, Bob? What's up, Timmy? You mean, you go there. Now it's like, you got what's exciting to me is, you know, I can go I can go with my, you know, 15 year old son, my older son who's now in college, collect a little bit.

And, you know, to to see them do it in the way they do it, they do it differently. Trade night at the national.

I mean, we're we're us old guys are taking pictures and, like, filming these kids, and you see kids with $50,000 cards in his briefcase, and he's, you know, he's 15 years old. And and so, like, to me, that's exciting.

And and to see, you know, the diversity, I'd come home and I'd say to my wife, I'd say, like, there's a lot of women at the national and, you know, and and, you know, being African American, there's African American people.

It's like, these are good things for the hobby so that, you know, so many people are are getting into it, because it's cool.

You know? You're like, you you see, you know, WWE wrestlers cracking boxes and looking for The Rock, Otter, and all these things, like like they they they brought the, you know, the card industry to the mainstream.

So that's what excites me about it. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, I like looking and handling cars myself like Raj said.

But but but for the industry, I think it's it's a good thing that people have access to all these different cars and these different, you know, vintage, new, you know, you know, special effect prism and all all these different things.

I think it's interesting for the for the hobby. Yeah. And and I think it's it's actually a lot more collegial than it used to be.

You know, there's because they brought entertainment into it, you know, it it's and because, you know, they have these conventions and you meet a lot more people on the Internet than you ever could in your hometown or whatever.

You're not just building your your one top set in your basement anymore. You know, it's you go out, you talk, you trade. I mean, the trade nights are insane.

It's the a couple years ago, we came back from dinner, and we we were both taking videos, sending them to our wives, being like, this is, you you know, there were there was a time not that long ago, he and I were talking about it this week, where on Friday at the national, you're like, looking at your watch going, can't wait for my flight on Sunday, you know, and there's nobody in the aisles.

Meanwhile, now, Wednesday afternoon, you can't move. Let alone you know, it it is just mobs.

So you're like it's it's exciting to watch people interact. I think I think they're getting exposed to it, but the collecting community is a little bit different than it was, and I think that makes it more fun, for people to transact.

And, obviously, there's a financial aspect to it. People are people are making money and having fun making money, but it is there is, like, a real true collector base.

Like, Stan said, the women I mean, like, WNBA cards, even before Caitlin Clark. I mean, that stuff, there are people out there seeking it. And it's awesome.

And wrestling and, you know, I we've always loved non sports stuff, but it's, you know, it's it's everywhere. It's, you know, stranger things cards. It's walking dead. You know, it's there's something almost for everybody, and it's fun.

They they've they've done a good job of making the hobby fun. I love it. Yeah. It's fun to see. I I I collect in WWE and I collect in WNBA, primarily a football card collector, but I collect in both those categories.

And it's just so fun to see them grow and be a part of the growth and the community and the excitement, and it's just to hear you call those out specifically, was, is exciting for me.

I wanna maybe before we highlight some cards that are being, you know, sold through four sharp corners, we're gonna hit those.

But before we hit those five cards, I wanna I always like to ask the guests, is there a card or cards maybe over the last six to twelve months that you have sold to four Sharp Corners that just has kinda, like, blown your mind in a way?

Like, not it can be the card itself. It can be the the price it went for, but, curious on any examples that come top of mind for you.

I mean, a couple that that that I think about over the last twelve months, you know, we're we're kind of vintage collectors. So our you know, cards I particularly like are Walter Payton rookie, Ricky Henderson.

Like, those are players that were my favorite players. You know? It's funny that Ricky Henderson tens. I think we've had three Three or four. Three or four over the years. It's been a while since we've gotten one.

Last one sold was for 17,000. That'll that'll tell you how long ago it was. I yeah. So so, like, those types of cards, but we've gotten some tie cobs. And when you see that pre war stuff, you know, it's like they're so it's so rare.

And and to see what it does and even in, you know, fives and, you know, fours, it it's just just it's cool to have that kind of stuff, and that's the part of the consignment that I really enjoy.

You know, we get to see cards that not only we would submit, but, like, you know, customers have bought over the last, you know, twenty, thirty, forty years.

And and, you know, we get to hold them, and we get to sell them, and, you know, and and and hopefully do a good job marketing those cards.

And and, you know, some of those cards, like, I I'm not sure, Brad, if you're aware, but, like, we do four sharp corners elite.

It's kind of the highest standard of, you know, the the the cards that come through our doors. And and so we get to elite some of those cards. And we have a Michael Jordan, PSA nine elite. It's the first one that we've elated.

I mean, it's perfect center. It's a beautiful card. Like, cards like that get me excited, you know, because it doesn't have the print data. You know, it's just it's just a nice it's a nice copy of the card.

I love it. Let's let's highlight some of these cards. Maybe share with the listeners, when these cards will go live so they can go check it out. Yeah. They're going live this Thursday, starting at 8PM.

Ten day, ten day run. So we've got, you know, this is our select showcase, which we've typically run every two to three months, and we're going to be going monthly starting in April. So, that's exciting.

But these are these are cards that are just, you know, premium value that, you know, a lot of times we're partnering with eBay to give our customers some extended marketing on them, in addition to just the ten day run.

So these have been live on our website for preview.

People are already watching them, you know, putting them on their watch list, keeping track of when they're gonna go live. But yeah. So you the one you've got up there right now, I mean, is a is a true unicorn.

I mean it's a '83 OPG Gwin 10. I mean it's that card is stunning. Did you lead that one? I think he did lead that one. And it's, I mean, I think it's the first one we've handled or or the first one in twenty years.

So, you know, it's just a super cool card, rare OPG variation. You know, there there's a lot of hardcore OPG collectors out there, and I think, you know, they're gonna chase after that one pretty hard.

So I I did a little bit of research on this one because I I don't think I'd ever seen a 10, and I was like you know, and Tony Gwynne, I rightfully so, it feels through my Instagram page, there are collectors that are gravitating towards Tony Gwynn's stuff right now just based on how great of a pro he is, which is fun to see.

But I was looking in card ladder, and a PSA 10 based on card ladder data hasn't sold since 12/11/2020, and it sold for 6,200 and and $19.

And the fact that it's been a five year gap from when the last one sold, I think, it's gonna be a big one, I I think, just based on collector demand.

And and this card is a pop 36 too, which there's not that's not a lot. So I'm I'm excited to see where this one ends up. Alright. Next one here. Pretty popular card.

Why don't you talk about this Jordan? I think that's your elite. Yeah. I know this one's not. That's not? No. Yes. So this Jordan, I I think was one of the I mean, it it it's a beautiful car, slightly off center, right to left.

But, you know, this is a car it's iconic. Right? Everybody wants this car. I don't know how many tens that we've had in this car, but but not many. Like like like, it's it's 10 or 12 probably. Yeah. Yeah. 10 or 12 tens of this card.

It's a fairly common card, but but it seems to be on the rise again. I think the last couple copies have sold between eighteen and nineteen thousand that have, you know, this kind of, you know, appeal to it. So, nice card. Alright.

We've got the, 87 Fleer Jordan in a PSA 10, which I can admit I had this one in a binder growing up. I can I can probably, definitely bet on the fact that it wasn't a PSA 10 in in in the binder, which which makes this copy special?

But maybe maybe talk about, this card specifically. You know, it's it's it's as iconic as the Jordan rookie is with that pose, this one is almost equally iconic because it's the first full on, you know, full portrait of Jordan.

It's a card that's notoriously hard to find centered, you know, and it's just those those white borders. You can every everyone can evaluate the centering of that card immediately, so you know when the copy is nice.

And and this one just just really is. It's just, you know, came in with a with a tremendous Jordan collection. You know, there's there's a couple others that you that we didn't highlight to you that are going live on Thursday as well.

There's a there's a Jordan and Kobe, dual, jersey card pop one that's going live on Thursday. So this this was part of a pretty high end, Jordan collection, and it's and it's really nice even for a 10 example. Awesome.

Next one, he obviously the hobby knows about the credentials banger that just sold for a lot of money. But when I think about Allen Iverson, I think about this card, which is the 1996 Topps Chrome, rookie refractor and a PSA 10.

Don't don't see any greening going on with this copy. It looks like a pretty strong copy, but maybe talk about Iverson in this card.

Yeah. I mean, just growing up, you know, Iverson at Georgetown was was one of my favorite guys to watch. He was so explosive and and exciting and and being, you know, what is he?

Six foot, six one max? He just he's iconic. I mean, he's also one of those guys that have brought, like, you know, the, you know, rap music and and tattoos and stuff to basketball, and and and that's just who he was.

You know? And and it was cool. I I know initially back in, I think, in '96 and '97, some of the companies were actually airbrushing out tattoos and stuff.

And he was one of the guys that said, you know, that's who I am. You know? Like like like like, he didn't like that. He didn't stand for that kind of stuff.

So, I mean, this is a great copy of this card. I mean, the centering on it just pops. It's in the red jersey, it it's just this is a nice copy of this card. I had that that exact jersey that growing up as a kid, I mean, who didn't?

So that that one definitely brings me back to, my younger self for sure. And then final card in the the five cards, and I I I'd encourage everyone, check out everything.

I mean, this is just a small taste of what's gonna be available, but this is the 2,000 playoff contenders, Tom Brady, rookie ticket, BGS eight five auto 10, pretty important card to the hobby.

Oh, what's it like, having one of these cards and, you know, getting ready to promote it for sale with knowing how, you know, the status of Brady and just the history of this card.

Just like the Jordan, this one is the easiest one to sell. It sells it sells itself. I mean, there's nothing I can tell you about this card that that everybody doesn't already know.

You know, I live in I live in Foxborough. Went to many many patriots. I'm not a Patriots fan, but I'm gonna sit here and tell you he was the best to ever do it, period.

It was it was but was a pleasure watching him for twenty years. And like, you just look at this card and it it never doesn't get you excited.

When you see a card like this, you always you always stop and take a look. And and I'm like you Brett, I'm a I'm still a huge football card fan. So that's it's just one of those things where, you know, you're gonna stop and take notice.

And, you know, there's no no such thing as a sure thing, but to me, Brady's money in the bank. You know, it's just it's it's gonna stand the test of time. Regardless what Mahomes does, he'll always be Tom Brady.

So it's just an iconic card. Amazing group of cards. This has been a a ton of fun. I I wanna close this out by maybe just offering your feedback to the listeners just based on building the business.

So many people who listen to the show, you know, are weekend card warriors, going to shows, buy, sell, trade, making money, having fun, have a full time job, have aspirations to maybe do do cards full time at some level, whether it's, being a dealer or consignment business or opening up a shop, you name it.

Maybe each of you, like, I'd love for you to offer just any words of wisdom or or piece of advice to anyone who's in that spot looking to make the leap.

Yeah. I would just say, you know, it's if it's truly your passion, you gotta kind of figure out what it is that you're you you know, what what kind of card you like?

What what what do you wanna do? Do you wanna do modern? Do you wanna do vintage?

And then kind of at some point, you've gotta make the decision to kind of jump all in. And and and and so there there are times where, yeah, you you you may lose money, but but it it's are you on the right course?

Right? Are are are the decisions you're making in the cards that you're selling, you you know, overall, are you profitable?

Is it something you can, you know, foresee yourself kind of, you know, growing and scaling? And and that's one of the things that, you know, you you you gotta be able to take a little bit of risk.

And, right now, I would say it's one of those things where, you know, the card industry is booming. It it it it's the right time. Right? I mean, there there are a lot of people, like you said, making money and and doing their thing.

So take the risk. I would say take the time to become an expert. What in whatever whatever area you choose to focus on, I mean, first and foremost, I think we started out being condition experts.

Because we were basically saying anything that's that's perfect, you know, within reason, we're sending it.

And we figured out what perfect was. So we put in the time and it was way more than forty hours and it's, you know, still still more than forty hours, but not quite like it was.

And and, you know, obviously, we're huge sports fans, so, you know, we know all the players from the seventies on, and and then learned about the guys from the sixties afterwards.

But it's, you know, take the time to become an expert, and you know, know when to walk away from a deal to.

Because you know, there are like Stan said, you're not always gonna make money, but a lot of times if you walk up to somebody and they're, you know, they got a whole bunch of Shohei Ohtani one zero ones in their case, there's a pretty good chance that they know a lot more about Shohei Ohtani than you do.

You know? You know? So unless it's like, you know, the first series of Pokemon and that, I'm pretty good at that. Although, you know, the first few ones where I opened them up with my kids and stuff.

The newer stuff, I'm I'm smart enough to know that the guy selling it probably knows more than me, and so I'll go buy some kangaroo juniors or something.

You know? But, you know, it's it's it's one of those things where, you know, we've worked hard to stay in our Lane, and I think it served us well.

You heard from Stan and Roger. We're the founders at Four Sharp Corners. We'll put a link in the show notes to that auction. This was a ton of fun, guys. Appreciate the time. Thank you very much, Brett. Nice nice meeting you.