alright we are back with another episode of passionate profession brought to you by my good friends at ebay and we have a returning guest here i'm excited to bring back mike from mc sports cards we are going to be talking about relationships relationships specifically in building business in this space and i'm sure we'll cover a lot more ground but without further ado mike welcome back man how are you doing great man pleasure to be on again what's what's it been now four or five times maybe four four only re only re only reason i know that is because i was telling you ahead of this there's so much content i've had to organize everything in a drive and folders and you've got your own folder and this this or the own drive and this is the fourth folder so that's how i know we've attacked some fun topics but this will be a good one maybe before we get into everything i'd love to maybe get some perspective for you on from you on just like this space the industry what's happening like what what stands out to you like what is on your mind as we're heading kind of towards national season here yeah i mean hobbies in a place where it's hasn't been in five years now or so and you know it's it's just that same feeling of everything's hot a lot of new people in the in the hobby things are going really well you got footballs kicking back off soon you got the world cup which you know who knows the next time that'll be in the us and that's definitely bringing a lot of attention to soccer but now the industry is great and i think everybody who's involved is is feeling good right now and i'm hoping to keep the momentum think for sure through the national the momentum will will stay and we'll see what happens after that yeah i i'm with you i'm curious like have you seen an influx of like soccer card consignments now that the world cup is front and center like has that kind of hit your world at all since the the momentum has been there yeah i mean i don't think we've gotten like tons and tons of like quantity but on the higher end side we've definitely gotten a lot more cards that are soccer you know a lot a lot of messi's ronaldo's and bapes yamal's you know most of the high end soccer we get is in that group of five or so players but yeah each each like mc monday and showcase auction and everything recently there there's definitely been more soccer than usual i i saw just as we hit record i got a notification that messi broke the record for all time world cup goals saw that i think argentina is playing now as we record so yeah would imagine there's probably some more messi cards coming your way hopefully i mean they're they're looking good portugal's not looking too hot and you know argentina's looking like they could do it again yes they certainly can alright let's let's dive into it so i i think maybe the first time we spoke i i made mention of like before i met you and before we talked i had heard so much about you from people that i know and trust and that gave me a signal that you know you the way you probably go about your business in building it probably relies pretty heavily on just relationship building and so i don't know like i wanna start there like when you think about mhmm mc sports cards today like how much of the business has been built through those relationships versus like traditional customer acquisition tactics that you know business businesses typically take in order to you know gain new customers yeah i mean the core of our business was almost entirely built on previous relationships before we got heavy into the consignment space you know now with like our site and you know technology we're implementing it becomes easier to use our service and therefore people can come do it effortlessly and it's easier to pick up customers but you know in the early days it was just all people we knew or i've previously worked with or done trades with and you know we we've never been big on like advertising or paying for a lot of like search engine stuff and it's it's always just been like a word-of-mouth tighter knit community and and when you're operating a business with that kind of mindset you know it's all relationships did you when you were in those early days of you know making deals kind of building your network did you like when was the moment when you and then you started the consignment side like when was the moment that you realized kind of like all of those seeds you planted weren't maybe just transactional like deals made card in card out but that those would then lead to customers that would use your services not just once but for the foreseeable future like what what would when did you start to realize that i actually kinda realized it pretty quickly because you know we were a fairly young consignment company and you know not a lot of previous history and we were getting a lot of these people who were sending us like pretty nice stuff and yeah again the bulk of it was people that i knew well and i knew that by them sending us these items is probably because of our past history of doing deals or friendship or or just trust and you know you can't just blindly send your cards off to a newer company when you don't know anybody there or anything about it so i i kind of figured that out pretty early that you know trust is really what's gonna get get this thing going and you know we've always kept that mindset do do you think the catalyst for maybe those early customers in trust building was the deal making and individuals like doing business with you on buy sell trade and you know respecting the way you went about your business and your process and you know maybe not trying to get over on people because you probably looked at not just one deal but a series of deals over time do you think like that played a key component in just like people then jumping over to using mc for consignment yeah a hundred percent you know my mindset with like the wheeling and dealing has always been you know just fair deals and the card sells for x you know try to get around that maybe get a little more but you know don't be one of those people who are trying to absolutely crush everybody and make up values and devalue their stuff so i think always taking that approach and combining that with the magnitude of cards i was dealing with and this and some of these really big ticket items i think like that made the perfect storm of of trust and really got people to you know take a leap of faith to use our service i think like one of the things i've been thinking a lot about and just conversations i've been having with individuals has just been you know how do we move away from like working with certain people in this space and it feeling very transactional i feel like you know a lot of times we need a card and we go buy a card and then that's that's it and the relationship is over but i don't know i i i sense that you prioritize just the relationship especially when it's individuals who are you know sending you big cards or you're making deals in person or online like what when you're thinking about like a conversation with someone that could brew into a long term relationship like how do you go about that like what are things you consider in order to make sure that it's not just like a one time thing and it's not transactional but it's something that could you know blossom into future deals or future cards being consigned yeah i mean just something as simple like when we see a new customer sign up on the site or make a new submission that has some some above average items you know myself or one of our team members will reach out to that person and say hey you know saw you made a submission saw you signed up let me know if you have any questions like here's this all all that and i think just adding like that personal touch really gets it you know to the next step to make it not feel as transactional and you know again like lot of our biggest customers are people that i knew well in the past or friends of them so like they're it wasn't a lot of like really having to develop a relationship after the fact a lot of it was like taking a previous relationship but you know we do get a lot of clients that we didn't know and you know using that those same methods and you know everything to help grow that relationship has has worked well how pivotal has it been on the tech side i you've referenced it a couple times here like maybe describe old world mc sports cards like low tech or no tech versus new world mc sports cards with tech and maybe the bridge that's created to new people and people using you and telling your friends their friends yeah yeah so the you know v one of mc sportscards pre website was literally you know you either got communicated all through text or all through instagram and you know that's extremely personal touch you know the the personal touch level of that kind of service is unmatched but it is kinda hard to scale you know if you have thousands of clients you you just can't be doing all that you need some automation so you know we we got into the site we we developed the site it's been about three years now and you know it just at first it was just a tool to help us like make reports for people automate reports and pay out data so that they can see that quicker and we didn't have to calculate on our end or deliver those numbers and then you know just kinda developed it along the years and we still try to keep it a personal touch feeling in a way but you know it some things just need to be automated at this point and you know we we try our best but i guess it is possible to use our site without ever communicating directly with us and some people like it that way and but you know i think as long as we continue to keep that mindset and and reach out to clients who we think we might be able to develop a good relationship with or you know clients who might want us to kinda hold their hand in a way like you know we're we're willing to do things like that and i i think that makes us stand out that that we are willing to do things and that we're kinda conscious to reach out and try to do things like that this spark something that i've been thinking about a lot and maybe it's a personal example but it's also something i hear from so many people who are in a similar position as you where everyone wants to grow everyone wants to scale but very few people like wanna do it to and compromise those touch points or those relationships that they've been they've developed in the past has i mean and there there's some numbers i i noticed in cardladder when we're talking about high end collectors that i'll will share and i wanna get your feedback on but it's undeniable like your business is growing like technology process like hiring cards like how do you think about like that scaling up but also making sure you don't you aren't giving up kind of that brand and those touch points and those relationships that got you to that point like what's the balance there yeah so you know obviously like any business we have like a a goal that we wanna reach at some point you know in the next year two years it's combination sales clients and other things and i i think we've always just taken the like baby steps approach to achieving that and when you take very small steps you tend not to lose some of the traits that you that you possess like you know if if we're just taking little steps it's not like we're gonna completely cut everyone out and not talk to them but you know some businesses the way that they're ran you know they wanna go from a to b in a matter of months and it creates this extreme change and you know some clients might hate it and sure they might achieve a a level a little bit sooner but you know maintaining it or long term it it might not not be as strong as if somebody's like building up to it keeping their same ways so you know we we just take that approach and keep it small small steps and this way nobody really knows that a lot of changes are happening and then you look back a year you know a year from now and you kinda see it all at once no doubt the i think about like a a question that i have been thinking a lot about just in terms of build building a business and hiring and just like this you have got this kind of professional skill set and then you've got like card knowledge and domain expertise and i think as the hobby is moving forward infrastructure is being built it's like companies are trying to figure out like what's the perfect blend of having people who have the skills but then also have the card knowledge i'm curious like for you like i my observations of you are you have a good blend of both obviously like you know cards you know cards very well based on just your hit track record and history but then also like you know how to build a business and you've got those skills and not just staying stagnant but like hiring growing streamlining consignment making those right decisions like maybe like talk about that just in your experience like and like from a market perspective in trying to get people to use your services like how important has it been for you to maybe have like the skill set but then also the card knowledge and and blending those two things together yeah it's a good question so the the card knowledge is huge and you know what how i value card knowledge whether it's myself or our staff members is probably way stronger than other companies may value card knowledge and you know at the end of the day it's a language if you know if i could speak your language in in a way it's a lot easier to communicate and understand your customers' needs and have your customers wanna do business with you you know like majority of our team we we go pretty far back in cards and you know you could have a fluent conversation use all the card terms and acronyms and they know exactly what you're talking about and you know translating that over to the customer side it it really adds that like level of comfort like okay this guy knows what an rpa is or you know this guy knows like hey you should probably sell your football cards in the summer instead of wait till the season and like things like that that you know we can provide guidance and expertise that you know a company that might be trying to scale ten times quicker and hire ten people a month you you just can't do that you know no doubt and i think that's probably a good signal that you and your team can talk cards and respond to questions and be a part of that conversation is just looking at kind of the high end sales that consistently happen through mc sports cards mc mhmm mondays i was i just pulled a quick report in in cardladder just looking at i did a filter like ten thousand dollars or more sales that have come through mc sports cards and so and i i thought this was a good like sign of growth and just i don't know good aspiration for anyone building a business but in twenty twenty four and granted this has been there's been different eras of the hobby during this time frame but in twenty twenty four tracked eighty nine sales of ten thousand dollars or more through mc sports cards twenty twenty five two hundred and forty three sales ten k or above already in twenty twenty six via card ladder i'm seeing two hundred and eighty three sales ten k or above so whether those numbers are completely accurate or not they signal that over the last three years there are bigger cards that are coming through mc sports cards and more people are trusting you with big cards i'm seeing an almost a hundred k mj psa seven star jordan that's sold through through you guys this year so the the growth is very evident when you just like break it out and look at kind of the the big sales that are coming through i i guess like what what is your reaction to kind of that that year over year growth on the big sales yeah i mean it's it's great and i i've never really pulled that data on cardladder i appreciate you doing that and and letting me know because we we have like internal datas by months weeks for the last few years and i i do compare that but but i don't really look at like the specifics too much anymore just because it's all kind of a big cluster oh no that that is good i think it's a combination of us and our service a combination of the market and also a combination of like ebay becoming a a legit player for these cards in the you know ten k plus range and a couple years ago it was like the ebay had a ceiling and you know it was really hard to try to convince somebody to use ebay over a certain amount and that number just keeps kinda going up and it's got a lot more lot more room to go but it's good to see that you know it's working again it's step by step slow and steady not trying to get five hundred ten thousand dollar cards next month as much as that would be great but yeah i think i to grow yeah i i see just on the ebay side like you've got the investment in authentication program you've got autopay you've got a bunch of features that they have implemented over the last you know twelve to eighteen months to to me this signals like a protection for buyers and maybe get opening it up for more the opportunity for more people to feel comfortable selling their big cards on ebay through places like mc sports cards do you feel like you still are trying to fight that hurdle because i even hear it today even though we see a ninety eight thousand dollar card selling through mc sports cards it feels like people still get wrapped up in this like if i if i have like big cards like they can't be sold through ebay they've gotta be sold through one of these auction houses do you think that conversation is like do you battle that regularly still i mean honestly we don't we don't like to convince people one way or another because you know if if your sixty thousand dollar card we convince you to sell on ebay and it might do forty then to you know who looks like the bad guy then now you know ebay what we do tell clients all the time is like it just depends on the card if it's like a gold kaboom or you know or a nice like vintage or or nineties card that's in the thirty k or less range like we'll almost i don't wanna say guarantee because we can't we're not guaranteeing anything when it comes to sales results but like we can almost guarantee that you know thirty k or less like the right stuff ebay is is just as good if not better now once you get above that value like yeah we'll we'll tell people straight up like hey appreciate you asking us but if i were you i would just send that elsewhere and you know take less risk of it underselling and i think having that mentality has has helped to build a lot of trust and client relationships as well yeah so that sounds like pretty atypical from the way a lot of conversations happen where it feels like everyone's trying to run and seduce the high end customer by any means necessary but like what i heard there is like you're someone who's like playing more of a consultative approach where you're like if they have a big big card and it might be better for another platform like you don't wanna pigeonhole them into selling it through you when the results might be greater elsewhere is is that like a a benchmark of like trust building for you like you're you're trying to just like be honest and upfront with those people that are coming your way yeah i i mean honesty is like pretty much everything and again i can tell you all the reasons to sell your you know eighty thousand dollar card with us on ebay even though i might not believe that it is the the true best reasons and yeah we'll get a big sale but i don't think you're gonna be coming back if we tell you your card's gonna do eighty k and it does sixty sixty five and you know sure we got that one sale but we lost a relationship and you know you never know who who knows each other in in the high end space everybody knows each other and if you do somebody wrong or you you know you try to pull a fast one like word does travel pretty quick and it's just not worth doing that you know yeah i wanna hear like because you interact with a lot of high end collectors maybe describe like that high end collector like what do they care about what are their traits like what makes them different maybe from other people aside from them having just a massive cards and a ridiculous collection but like is is it is it harder to build and develop trust with those individuals that buy sell trade in at the top end of the market i think by default yes just because you are also now adding the element of just the value of the cards like you know if somebody trusts you a million percent and they'll feel pretty comfortable sending you bunch of hundred dollar cards because you know worst case scenario there something bad happened and it's just couple hundred hundred dollar cards or something but when you're talking like these big ticket items you really need to develop that trust because you know we we do have people all the time they'll send us in the mail you know tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of dollars of cards and it's like you know we're we take pride in the fact that people are willing to do that and you know people who we've might have never spoken to before who wanna try our service or you know trust us enough to just say hey like let me shoot these over to you guys and you know that's kinda like motivation in a way of like you know how can we keep building that trust and and getting people to to wanna use us for their their high end do you find that high end collectors do they do they obviously they're using mc sports cards for a service but and you mentioned like this consultative approach earlier but do you find that high end collectors that have these big cards that are you know with stakes if they go to market are they do they view you as like a like consultant in a way like are they asking you questions i mean it's a tough position when maybe they're asking you to speculate what it might what it might go for and if they should sell it now but like in those conversations i'm sure are different by collector and what cards they have and timing of the market but like how do you play that role in a way that's not going to jeopardize that relationship like what's your approach yeah so all the time i i get contacted from friends and clients about you know what should i do should i sell this when should i sell it and i know our team members who work directly with clients do it way more than i do and i think again just be straight up with them and you won't jeopardize anything obviously you could advise them to sell something and it might not do do as well as you thought and they might not be happy and you know that's that's another conversation but i think if your intentions are clear and you know you're just trying to help them whether they're actually selling it with you or not like that goes a long way and and there's plenty of times where we tell people hey don't don't sell this yet and i think a lot of other people would just say hey yeah you should sell it now just so they can like guarantee the the business no doubt the we've talked about like the growth and the expansion and i would imagine like your customers' word-of-mouth are probably one of the top growth engines for you but like as this hobby expands and you've got new people that might not even might be spending a ton of money don't even know what consignment is like how important are is that existing customer base for you in order to get connected to those individuals who are maybe trying to sell a card for the first time and don't know what to do yeah so we we have a lot of clients who are you know big repack buyers and risk takers you could say with breaks and everything and you know a lot of times they're in the same room or livestream as these guys that you just mentioned who might not know much about cards or where to sell things how to sell things what they should sell and a lot of times you know in the comments or in direct messages from these live streams or repacks or breaks like people will recommend us or or these people will get our information from people who are familiar with us and it kinda goes back to like the word-of-mouth approach there and again like if you're somebody who doesn't know a lot about cards you just enjoy breaks or high end repacks and just gambling i guess but you're you're gonna trust what people who you could tell know what they're doing or know what they're saying tell you like there's guys in these live rooms that are there every single day and they spend a ton of money and these guys probably these newer guys are probably very familiar with them because they see their name a million times on the you know on on the screen so you know oh hey this guy said check these guys out like i'll probably actually check them out and not just think he's just some random you know no doubt i think one of the times we spoke you were talking about just like the importance of mc mondays and how that's been like a a pretty good like marketing tool for you all and you highlighting cards showing what's out there because you know ebay is so vast and some people you know six figure cards are selling on tuesday nights all the time and and thursday nights and people don't understand like all the cards that are available all the time because it's so crazy but i don't know like i mc monday i would imagine is is one of the ways but like when you're not engaged with your network of customers on a regular basis because it's impossible because you got a lot and you're growing and scaling like how do you find ways to stay top of mind for clients when there's so many options of places where people can send their cards to be sold like how do you think about kind of that those touch points even when people aren't sending you their cards directly yeah i i think like maintaining kind of a white glove service for an mc monday and our monthly showcase is like a good example of that you know you might submit a card through mc monday and never have to reach out direct never hear from us direct but you know like you know the way that we're handling your cards the way that the listing presents the good photos and the title and you know the way that website is communicating each step to you like you kinda know you're in good hands versus just kinda blindly sending it off and waiting for it to pop up on ebay so like through automation you know automated text messages when your submission's received schedule of live ended all that that kinda still gives you a personal touch in a way even though you're not directly communicating with somebody and you know we always make it clear that you're one step away if you do wanna directly communicate about something like it's very easy to contact us with questions and get a quick response i think one of the things that doesn't get talked about a ton especially in like from a business builder perspective are like the rough the tough conversations inevitably like not everything always goes the way maybe you want or maybe your customers want how do you think like having that trust and having those strong relationships help you handle those types of conversations when those moments inevitable inevitably pop up yeah i think just knowing that like you we trust our client or try and our client trusts us and like if something happened that may cause us some sort of disagreement which i'm not even just saying it almost never happens knock on wood i think just with the level of trust and respect like it'll get resolved very easily and you know i can't even really think of a scenario that would happen the way we do things that would result in like somebody just absolutely freaking out about something you know unless their card sold poorly but that's not really not really something we can control but you know we're we try to just handle everybody's cards like they're our own and you know that contributes to the trust factor and and everything i think business owners in this space are in the business of saying yes a lot like want access want the conversation want the meeting wanna see where it goes like have you had to just in your history in building the business like have you had to say no whether it's no to customers or opportunities and maybe like what what were the reasons you had to say no to to whatever it is yeah i mean we we've said no to customers so we might not agree with the ways the way that they do things or in the past you know we've had issues with them or heard of issues with them and you know we've turned down some what could be good business to avoid what also could be a big headache and you know it goes back to the the not just trying to accumulate everything and get everyone's business i think just keeping it very very tight and doing the right stuff is is gonna go a further way but yeah there there's always a lot of opportunities that come our way and we kinda just try to like stick to the end goal of what we're thinking and you know as a result we have to say no to a lot of things that might you know might end up working out or stuff like that do do you have you reached the point with consignments and what's coming in regularly and big cards that you might not have a you don't have the same pulse on every big card that is coming through your doors that you did in the past just by nature of there being the volume increasing and the priorities increasing like maybe talk through that just in your seat and how like you manage that yeah so i'm i'm not as involved in like the actual operations with the processing listing imaging and all that i do kinda more of like watching from from above type thing but again the way we handle things at white club service especially when it comes to higher end is like i have access to look at a quick list or images of all the m c monday cards or the showcase cards and if i wanna see what's in there it takes me two seconds i can see everything i'll see what's whose is whose and and all that so it's kind of like the access is easy and you know even though i'm not involved every second like i still know a lot what's going on and you'll have the ability if somebody reaches out to me about their cards and mcm or showcase like i could figure out enough to talk to them right away instead of having to ask five other people to give me the information the i think the specialization of time and getting to a place where you don't have to have your hands on everything and you can hire the right people build the right team to do the work and then you can specialize your time like that's what many builders business builders in this space aspire to do like like when was that moment for you that you realized like my time is better served doing x instead of the hundred steps it takes to maybe run a consignment from start to finish like how did you come to that moment where you realized you needed to invest in your business and that might be investing in tech process people like that sort of thing like when was that moment for you probably two or three years ago i think we just got to a level where we were getting a lot of cards in and our team was much smaller and nobody really had like clear defined roles it was always just all hands on deck and we we kinda turned it into like more of an assembly line type process different steps you know processing opening mail sorting imaging listing shipping and once we found those really nice like groups of you know of steps it it made it easier to find people to fill in those tasks and therefore like alleviate me of having to be as involved in everything and you know i think one a couple years ago when we realized that's what we need to do like then it just kinda happened over time like there wasn't like a light bulb that was like i need to get away right now and things like that but you know everything just takes takes time in in this business have you learned that there are cert like maybe there are certainly certain things i'm sure in a consignment business that are better automated with technology notifications things that you don't have to send manually just like updates that can happen in the background but i think we all like it's always like where what's the line for over automation of things like what maybe what are the things that you've learned in just like establishing your kinda tech stack and the process for which you go through what what have you learned where like there still needs to be human component like there still needs to be that human touch point no matter how sophisticated kind of the the tech has gotten yeah so i i've always with like automation and notifications i've always liked the mindset of like if the question could be answered with a a couple words or less or b in a couple seconds or less you could probably automate it and nobody will be too upset with you that you're now automating them you know when when do my card start well now you're you can look on the site and see that and you get a text and you see that i don't think you're gonna say i'm now mad at them because they're not personal enough like things like that now if you say hey i'm thinking of selling this card do you think it's the right time if not when's the right time or what do you think it can get there's not really automation for that and there never will be automation for that to where people will value it and and see it as a personal touch so you know we still keep all that while doing the automation of like the simple yes or no or one step questions if if that makes sense it does what part of your business in the industry and what's happening right now excites you the most like what do you what are you thinking about like where is there the most opportunity or i guess when you're getting out of bed right now like what's top of mind for you yeah so our our fixed price consignment service is something we're we're all super excited about i mean it's been rolling for for months now and the tech is kinda there on the site and we've we've been making some improvements and i think that's just a really good angle that a lot of people need and nobody really offers a very very good fixed price service and i think the barriers to entry are are also quite tough because you really need to have a whole system for it and processes and the right people so that's that's by far the most exciting thing right now and there's a lot of really good changes coming to that that will hopefully be announced well before the national but yeah i think that's kinda like a whole new space within the consignment space and we'll see see if we could be the front runners of it so i love it because i and i think man this is going a few layers deep but i feel like when there's reporting on card sales like something that often gets not mentioned is the format you know whether it's auction or whether it's fixed price whether it was best offer or whether it's someone who just smashed ben like i think all of that stuff really matters and i just never really hear too many people talk about it so i think it's cool like mc sports cards is offering that service of somebody who's trying to just you know sell a card but maybe don't wanna bring it to auction but wanna do it through consignment i guess like and maybe the i don't know if this is like you're ready to share or not but i'm just i'm more or less curious just in terms of the service like how does it work like if i have a card and and do i tell you like this is what i want it listed at and this is like the the minimum offer price that i'll take or is it no offers like how how are you kind of rolling out this service to your customers yeah so right now how it exists is basically you go on the site you fill out a submission you know you put tom brady rookie i wanna ask a thousand minimum offer five hundred we get it in we list it for you and then once it's listed you actually have the ability to fully manage it you go raise the price lower the price change the offer amount you know an offer comes in you get a text you click the link you counter you accept you decline like so it it is pretty well set up right now to where it's kind of like you're just doing it yourself on ebay except you're using our platform and we're doing the work to get it on ebay you know just some of the future changes coming are something like the cards kinda will live on your account and then once you price them then they become ebay listings automatically because right now a hang up is we still do have to price like input your prices for you and we still have to create those listings for you even if you're providing us the price but now it's kinda once we just put them in the system you can go in price them then they create the ebay listings and that saves us time gets you your cards quicker and kinda gives you like that full experience as if you're using ebay yourself but you're just using our platform yeah we're we're like a platform within a platform in a way yes no that's helpful i i i didn't realize it was set up like that so pretty cool service offering for anyone who's interested in that mike maybe before i let you get out of here a lot of people listening are individuals in this industry or maybe people aspiring to be building a business in this space maybe like what what is the first thing that you would recommend for people just regarding business builders in the space regarding relationships like mindset mentality like what what have you what have you learned about the process to build relationships and just like the importance of it like what feedback would you share for anyone who's like maybe just getting started yeah i mean just being reasonable fair honest easy to do business with people wanna continue to work with people that they like and that they trust and they don't wanna feel like they're just working with someone who's trying to work them over or is only in it to get a deal from you know things like that so you know just do the right thing and it's you're not gonna achieve success overnight in this hobby and a lot of people wanna do that and you just kinda have to realize like takes months and years and and you never stop growing or working towards the you know the trust and relationship building lot of good insight information mike always appreciate our chats and looking forward to the next one down the road alright thank you