Alright. Excited to be back with another episode of Passion to Profession brought to you by our good friends at eBay.

I'm really excited about today's conversation. I am joined by Eric at Cruck Cards. I have done my research and digging into their operation.

I think there is going to be a lot of fun ways that we can dig into the business that they're running and just talking about inventory, buying, selling, and just overall, contributing to the hobby.

So without further ado, Eric, welcome. How are you? I'm well. Thank you for having me. Let's, you we were had a chance to chat a little bit before we hit record.

I think that so many businesses in this space are relatively newer, and Crook's been a business that's, I think been running since 1987, which is, several decades.

I know you haven't been there quite from the beginning, but maybe talk about just, the the start, anything you wanna share or and then when you maybe you entered and, how and why you, joined the team.

Well, if I go way back way back to my first, entrance into any of this sort of space was I started writing letters for autographs when I was five, six years old and, started sending letters for the teams and getting autographs back.

And then as time went on, you know, I index cards were kinda boring, so I got more into cards and trying to get signed cards.

And then that led into you know, I did that through my teen years kinda off and on. You know, some some things would come up and I would stop for a couple years, but I kinda always did it.

And then I I started doing shows right around the same time that George did. George start I think the business started in '87. I started doing shows a couple years after that.

So I can remember I knew I knew him from card shows and and Scott who also works with us. So I knew them from card shows, and I was just doing in the nineties in Detroit, you could do a card show every day.

Like, you did not need a store. There was a Monday night show. There was a Tuesday night show. There was two Wednesday night shows. There was two Thursday night shows.

There was a Friday night show, and there was shows all over. So you could just kinda do that, and that that sustained me through the nineties, and and that's what I was just doing full time for those years.

Then the the card shows got a little bit quieter in the late nineties, and the Internet was out there. And I wasn't really kind of in that mindset.

So, I took a job and got health insurance in '99, and I've been there ever since. What, what has it been like for you maybe being a part of a team that, like, Crutt cards that's, you know, been running for so long.

I'm sure there's been so many changes in terms of the way the business operates, how the business has evolved. What's it been like to ride kind of that wave since the the late nineties?

Well, it's it's much better being in a business as part of a group than just doing it by yourself. Doing it by yourself, it's it's kind of all in your head, and and there's nothing to bounce anything off of.

And there's so there there's just it's different now. In card shows, you kinda had that because you would have people that you knew who also did card shows.

So there was a community, but it's not quite the same as work. And and how we when when I started in '99, that's when, George moved back. He was in Atlanta in the nineties, and he moved back.

And, you know, the building we were in, we had our we had our stuff that was basically in inventory that was all on the shelves, and we had room for maybe 10 pallets squeezed in. Now it's there's two buildings.

There's an off-site where we have, basically, old semi trucks full of stuff. It's it's it's it's kind of overwhelming, and it's more like, you know, it's gotten to where it's over a thousand pallets probably.

So it's a little different. What what is what is your primary role in the operation? What are you responsible, and what are you doing on a day to day basis?

Well, partly purchasing and partly kind of managing the eBay store or at least the segment of the card part of the eBay store. So doing things to sell stuff, preparing auctions, writing titles.

A lot of it is just going through, deals that come in. It's it's and, I mean, we have a we have a deal that there are actually two deals of programs, mostly football programs, and it's, like, 70 pallets of programs. 350,000 programs.

So a lot of it is just going through and sorting that out and then, you know, which I really enjoy because, you know, you'll be going through, you know, all sorts of NFL programs in the eighties, and it gets kinda boring.

And then all of a sudden, there's a box of Super Bowl seven programs that are perfect right out of a printer.

You know? And and so there's always been deals like that that really kind of make it interesting for anybody who's love sports and grew up with that sort of stuff and and and all that stuff.

And then and then a lot of it is, you know, preparing and, getting eighties baseball sets together or or whatever it happens to come in.

And then a lot of it is, you know, buying stuff and, you know, evaluating deals, trying to to come up with a number that works for the person and works for you that, you know, you can both do well with.

So I I think it's certainly unique to be talking about, inventory and buying coming in from a pallet perspective and just thinking about all of the items that you all have and just managing kind of the the method to the madness.

Maybe, oh, like, how what is the process like to maybe manage all of that volume of, stuff coming in?

And, also, as you're on the purchasing side, making sure that you're making the right type of purchases based on what you already have or what is needed. Like, maybe let us inside a little bit about how you manage all of that inventory.

When you're when you kind of approach a good deal, say the deal's already been bought, and say it's a deal that came in during the winter, and I think it was about three and a half pallets, And most of it was baseball sets, seventies and eighties primarily, and then a lot of loose singles.

And so when when you're going through it, you wanna look, okay. Is this something that we wanna be grading or maybe something that we wanna sell to someone that does grading?

Or is it something that we wanna just sell on eBay as a set, or do we do wanna do a combination of all of them? And that's kinda how you approach something like that. And you you you just kinda look at it. You start going through it.

Usually, I have a list of what's on there. You know, say this is something that I didn't buy, but I'm processing it. And then you go through and you get a feel for it. You get a feel, okay. I we can do this with this.

We can do this with this. Oh, these are kinda left over. We'll just set those aside. And, oh, this, we can make starter sets out of. So we'll send it we'll have someone prepare, and maybe they'll make 10 starter sets out of something.

So that's just sort of the way you do it, and it's kind of on a deal by deal basis. And, you know, we kind of like, the the the business model, the business plan is we buy everything, and that's pretty literal.

Sometimes we don't buy it because it's more for them to ship it to us. But we kind of buy everything, and and that includes comments. And that means there's a lot of time when, say, we have a a deal like that.

Maybe we'll have half a pallet of nineties comments. Well, then that's gotta be prepared, and they need to be cleaned up. So then sometimes you might have to have someone if there's stuff in plastic. Well, we can't use that for that.

So there's just that sort of focus, and you just it's just evaluating every deal as it comes in and then trying to just okay. This is this is what's the best way to sell this with efficiency and for for better dollars?

So you kinda have to do both. So the we buy everything mantra, is, a fun one to think about. It's and it seems like that CrockCards is just kind of marketed yourselves as a business that is in the business of buying collections.

Has has the fact that you have always been in the business of buying collections, does that just kinda have a ripple effect where someone sells a collection or a piece of a collection to you, and then someone hears about it, and then all of a sudden you become kind of the central point for anyone who's trying to offload a bunch of cards or other items that might be taking up, space in their house or something else?

Well, I find that, like, when when you put you you get a certain amount of people wanting to sell stuff.

They like, we have, like, close to 5,000 skews of programs on our eBay store now, and we'll get more people wanting to sell us programs because they see that, and they think, well, these people really do buy everything.

If they're if they're delving into, you know, lots of 35, St. Louis Cardinals baseball programs from the seventies, then they're then they really are, you know, interested in buying the stuff.

So you get a lot you get a lot from that, and that's that's sort of it kind of creates a ripple effect like you said where, okay. Now now we're in this business. Now we're doing this.

So Help help us understand the, is the strategy on the we're gonna buy everything the fact that if you take in as many if you continue to take in items throughout that process and the volume of, you know, items coming in, there's going to be diamonds in the rough through that.

Help us understand just, like, the reason why it's like we're we're in the business of buying anything.

Well, I gotta give George the credit for coming up with the buying everything, man. That predates me, but it really is true. Like, yeah. I mean, we've we've found diamonds in the rough.

I mean, there was a time when we had bought a bunch of modern deals and kinda the process is that sometimes when there's extra stuff, it kinda gets all moved into, like, a well, kinda put all together.

You know? We'll we'll put it all together. So there was a time when I was just going through these binders that had star cards, and we didn't really know where it came from. And it had oh, wow.

Look. It's got some autographs. Oh, it's got some game news. Oh, and then in there was the there's a card from Upper Deck Superstars that it's an on card autograph of Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan, and it's just in this binder.

And don't know where it came from. Assume we didn't pay anything for it because it was just in this binder, and we sold it.

Unfortunately, we sold it because it's probably worth a fortune now because it was, like, numbered out of 25 and on card and the first card they were on together.

And but it's just one of those things where, you know, you you never know where that is.

And that's when when you buy all this, there's always just, like, if people walk through our warehouses and they just there was a guy who who who was who came in just yesterday and selling me stuff, and I hadn't seen him since before COVID.

And he was a regular guy who comes in and he sells the stuff. And it's, you know, usually $2,300 worth of stuff and, you know, and he's just looking around.

And because I'm around it every day, I don't realize how much it grows and how, I don't use the word obnoxious, but it but when these you just have a just a building with just double stack pallets everywhere and just cases and cards and comments.

And he was just dumbfounded. He's like, you guys weren't this big six years ago. And I'm like, yeah. I guess we weren't. You know? You don't when you're doing it every day, you kinda lose track of how sort of overwhelming it is.

So So so the just in this pandemic, like, you have this an individual coming in and they notice, like, the growth on the inventory side. And I'm sure since '99 or whatever you began, it looks a lot different.

Maybe take us into the, the the people side of the operation. Like, how with you've you got a warehouse of a bunch of stuff. That stuff gets, you know, sold. It gets sold maybe, in in in in real life or it gets sold online.

Maybe talk about just the people behind the business. Like, what are the employees of Crutt cards doing? Like, what are the different areas and departments people are are working on help shed some light on that?

Well, one good thing is pretty much all the people have been there for a long time. Our our our four we have four or five kind of main listers, and they've all been there listing for, I think, over ten years.

So it's it's it's sort of the same group. Our customer service people over ten years, our IT person over ten year. It's kind of all the same group, which is good because everyone kinda knows the stuff.

You know? And in the summer, George has he has three children who are now in their twenties, believe it or not. And so their, like, college friends have always been sort of, like, interns sort of in the summers.

So so in the summer, we have, like, a lot more help, and we have a lot of these strong and can throw 87 tops cases around where I'm I'm looking for a cart and one to drag them. So that that part's good.

And then so and then they've been there a while too. So that's just sort of the way you just try to like I said, we just try to break the deals down, and we have the listeners who have experience, and they're really good.

They work hard, and they they I think our pictures have gotten better over the years.

I think our titles have gotten better over the years. They they tend to not need a lot of direction either. They're they're pretty pretty good with this with the listing.

So What what would you say I mean, it is unique in any industry, in any business to have that many people stick around in one place for, you know, ten plus years, that's just not really normal anymore.

What do you attribute it to? The fact that you've been there since '99, you've had listeners there for a decade.

What is the reason why, you think people, are staying? Well, I think it's a good job, first off. I think it's a it's an interesting job. Like, they're like, I think any job after amount of time, it it there's a certain monotony to it.

Whereas this, it does things it does vary. It does things change. And and I think a lot of people I think that they like that, that aspect of it. I mean, I can't speak for everybody, but I I really think that that's a big part of it.

And I think, you know, George does a pretty good job, a really good job, a good job of of taking care of people and and kinda looking out for them. And so that part has helped.

And, you know, it's a family business. His kids have worked there, and I think that that all of that just has made it a a a pretty good place to work over the years. Like, any any job is gonna have times when it's it's challenging.

But I got I I have to maybe understand the transition maybe of all of these items in how they moved into kind of the digital world in thinking about the process that you've all gone gone through to maybe, you know, sell in person.

You were going to shows. You were doing that a lot. But then at the time you joined is right around the time we moved in kind of this Internet age and it you know, eBay became a thing.

Maybe take us into those early days of, like, transitioning, the business into an online business and, any trials or tribulations you went through, during that time frame.

Yeah. When I started in in '99, we were still putting out a flyer.

And, we we kinda finally finally reminisce about putting out the flyer because we would basically on notepads, we would go out and we would write up, you know, everything that we were adding in the inventory, and we would price it.

And then it would be sent to a and it would be typeset into making this flyer, and then we would mail out the flyers.

And then once the flyers got to the people, they would have phone we would have phone the day the flyers were live, George and Scott and myself would be in the main office, and we would we had, like, one clipboard that all the inventory was kept on.

And as we like, it would say 2687 topset, and someone would buy two of them, and we would we would put a slash with 24.

And then the other person will be another line taking orders. You have to pass the clipboard to them, and maybe they sold one, and they moved 24 to 23.

And it was as literally that that's what it was. But that was also right around the time when we were on eBay, and all of a sudden, we started shifting.

And maybe it wasn't even all of a sudden. Maybe it took a couple years, but, pretty soon, we were done with the flyer, and it was all on eBay.

And then we started developing things within eBay that would kinda fit kind of our philosophy and the way we wanted to do things. So that that period of, like, '99 to 02/2003 is sort of the time period when we sort of shifted.

That's incredible. I just love thinking about all of the that whole process of sending out the flyer, waiting on phone calls. That's just amazing. Moving over to eBay, what I mean, there's a high volume business you all are running.

What what maybe challenges or opportunities throughout the years have you found through, running the type of business you're running at cards through, marketplace like eBay?

Well, we kinda came up with this idea early on that, you know, say you get you get a product and and the the putting in the flyer was a little more difficult because you'd say you would get a get a card and you'd put out a you got a type card, t t card, and you would price it out at, I don't know, $2,400.

And, you know, people would maybe make offers on it or you know, it was always harder because say, you're great again, and you're saying, well, it's, you know, it's VG or whatever.

And and so so moving to eBay, that was an advantage that that you could put a picture of something on there, and people could look at it.

People see it. They see the front. They see the back. They could see the centering. They could see everything about it. And if it's graded, even better.

Then it then it's great. So, but let's just say you're you're putting a car like that out there, and and the idea was when we get something, let's start it as an auction first. And let's not start it at a dollar 99.

Let's start it kind of around where you think it's gonna sell for. Maybe on certain things, you put it a little less than you think it's gonna sell for because I always think that people are competitive by nature.

So if you can get two bidders in it, maybe you can get a little better price because I know personally me when I'm bidding on eBay and, you know, someone outbids me sometimes, I'll go, well, I'll go this person. Yeah.

I'm not getting pushed around here. So so you try to play into that psychology a little bit. And then, you know, once an item doesn't sell, okay, now you've kinda established a price for it. And then you can just slowly work off of it.

We have ways that we discount stuff and put stuff on sale. So it kinda becomes a a reverse auction in a way after that. And then that was sort of the approach to putting, you know, stuff on the eBay.

And then you also have your your kind of stock items, the different baseball sets, and certain things that don't fluctuate that much. And that's just the question of just getting them in.

How much have you over the years leaned on, I guess, just looking at existing processes that you're going through and identifying opportunities where maybe it makes sense to incorporate technology?

Like, how how much do you all think about evolving what you're currently doing?

Or is it, like, if it's not broke or if if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. Maybe talk to us about just the role tech has played in humans versus tech in just scaling out, the business that you're running.

Well, the thing that tech and I'm not a tech person, but what our tech person can do for me is if I if I say, let's sell these at let's do 20% off these item this particular item in a particular group or whatever, and, you know, a few clicks and boom, he's got it done.

So that's, like, the biggest advantage because it used to be, like, it used to be harder to to to discount stuff and change prices, and he's just a wiz.

He can just like, if if I say all the programs are too cheap, let's just raise them up a hundred like, put them 1.

1, then he would just, you know, do it or vice versa. So that's one thing is it really has helped with pricing and and and selling strategies and and also tracking things.

Like like, the the the information you can get and we use ChannelAdvisor, as our software. The information you can get, if you just look deep, you know, they have all sorts of stuff in there.

And then you can also get it through eBay as you can see what categories are doing what and and so that part of technology really helps in in getting rid of your stale listings and trying to update stuff.

And they can identify that stuff, so that helps too.

The business, if you just think about the time frame and the periods in the hobby, you know, it's it's been around from, like, you know, junk wax to, you know, hardly anybody around to emerging category to boom that we saw during the pandemic era to now where there's, you know, a lot of sustainable interest.

What over the years in your time, working there, maybe what are some of the biggest shifts you have witnessed, in the industry and that those shifts that have impacted kinda your role in just the business?

Well, I think that that a lot of the biggest shifts in the industry have have just come really say there was always a gambling element in cards. It you would play pack wars.

You would play, you know, highest highest card number gets both both all the cards in both packs. So that started. And just the idea of, you know, say, when 86 clear basketball really took off for the first time.

And, you know, you would go to shows and they would be it would just be a little more expensive, a little more expensive, and and and that that always felt like a gambling element.

Now it's just straight out gambling. Now it's like we're just we're going for it. And I'm not judging. I love to gamble, so I'm not I'm the last person in the world to say anything about that. But I do it does worry me a little bit.

Although, when bubbles break in in any industry, I think it's an opportunity as much as it is a a negative. But this one, like, with the breaking like, I love watching breaks. I do. I mean, it's it's fascinating to me.

Like, just like when I would sell packs at a card show, I used to like watching people open the packs and hoping they get something good. So it it is entertainment, and and there is there is a value to that.

And and while I'm always kind of thinking that I cater more to, like, when I'm processing stuff, I I I just imagine that, like, a hard core collectors getting into this.

And, you know, when you're when you're, when you get when you get cards back from PSA and you get a real tough, you know, some some common that's a nine that's a really tough card and you weren't gonna be eight or nine.

And then you think, wow.

Someone's gonna get that, and they're gonna put it in the registry, and it's gonna make their you know, that's always kind of a cool thing because, you know, it it it's it's something that that kinda spices things up, like, well, like, in a given day.

No. I I just think that that that's one thing. The the gambling aspect to it is part of it and through through breaks.

One thing that's that is really positive is I think we're getting more diversity in collectors and people involved in card shows. I think I watch I watch I learned stuff from these young young kids.

I see these young kids that do the videos on in on YouTube, and I watch how they how they're doing a deal and how they're selling something or how they're buying something.

And one thing that's like like, I didn't have is I had like, when I was doing that sort of in my twenties and when I was first starting, I was like, every deal was the end all.

Watch these kids and they're like, well, you know, I flipped that card.

I didn't really make anything on it. But, you know, just buy more cards. And I like, that's so refreshing. I wish I wish I had been like that instead of stressing out over the Frank Thomas rookies I bought.

And am I gonna be able to sell them? Because now he's due for his last 30. So that part is is really good. We got a lot of young people in. It's more diverse.

We've got women. I see these these, trade nights they're doing at the national. I mean, that didn't exist back when, you know, in in my heyday, my early days. So a lot of that is really positive. Do you do you so I love hearing that.

And it it seems like at times, the hobby is very fragmented where you've got different personas or different individuals that have different interests in the hobby, and they they it's almost like they they try to isolate.

Like, I'm a collector. I do these things. And then there's a group, I'm a flipper. I do these things. I'm an investor. I do these things.

And so, like, everyone places labels on everyone else, and there's different eras and different ages. And I I've always I I love how you call out the diversity because I think the more diversity we have, the more the hobby's gonna grow.

And I love hearing you maybe say, you know, I'm watching these kids on YouTube, and I'm learning something from it.

How how much do you think having an open mind and being open to different flavors of the hobby matters and helps specific individuals maybe think about things a little bit different?

Like, how important do you think that is in this era? Yeah. I mean, great question. I could, like, I can give you examples. Like, maybe about twenty years ago, 02/2004, '2 thousand '5, George bought this deal.

I remember he bought it was out in San Francisco when he bought this jersey deal. And we had we had game jerseys, one one z, two z's here and there and but never anything, like, big. This is, like, 200 jerseys or so.

They were all all from the seventies and and maybe early eighties. And I was like, I loved it because I all those old names, I mean, Dave LaRoche and all these people. And I'm just, wow, this is so great.

Does everyone think that you know? And so, you know, we did that and I remember, like, that was like our end. Like, we had never done much with jerseys. Now I just checked our our live listings on eBay. We have 37,000 game jerseys up.

So what what started with a buy from a collector, then then we started buying from the teams, then we started buying from colleges, then we started buying shoes, then then now we have one person who focuses, and he just works and works and works to just buy as much of that stuff and get it listed.

And it kind of over he it overwhelms me, and and he just focuses on that.

And and so having an open mind Georgia had an open mind on that, and it turned into this part of the business, which is, like, more than half of our listings probably right now.

And, you know, it's it's just amazing how, like, if you're if you're willing to to be open minded, and he's a lot George is a lot more open minded than I am.

I'm just, like, I'm like, where's the, you know, where's the 72 high numbers? Yeah. Let's go. And, so I love that. So you've all there's all this inventory. You're buying all this stuff, and, you know, these items are up on eBay.

And I know this might be challenging because there's just, so many items. But are there any items that maybe are currently listed or you just recently bought that might be listed soon?

It's just stuff that excites you, when when you see it come through and it and get it get put on eBay. Yeah. I I I kinda tend to like the stuff that a lot of the the jersey stuff.

I'm fascinated by what these minor league teams do in in terms of their jerseys now and how they'll make it. They'll have a Star Wars night, and they'll have all these special nights.

And we just had us a few I just saw he just had up some, Las Vegas Aviators minor league baseball jerseys, and they got this one that says whales on it. It's got dice on it.

And I'm just like, this is so great. Like like, that's something I would never even think of as like a like, as a collector. But I'm like, if I was starting all over again and collecting, that's probably what I would tend to go to.

It's just stuff that's kind of, like, kind of out there. And then also I like the I still like the the memorabilia of things that we get that have history to it.

And, like, I like I love going through these programs and because I can go through and I can go, oh, that you know, Stanford Cal band on the field game or or Franco Harris, maximum reception game.

And so, like, that part, like, whenever that stuff happens, that always, like, kinda perks me up. I love it. Kinda maybe as we're around the corner in this chat, I'd love to learn you've been in this business for a while.

You've probably seen a lot of businesses come and go. What in your mind separates kind of a business in a company like Crutt cards that survived through all these iterations, versus one that thrives and grows and continues to scale?

Well, kinda just what I was touching on with the with the being open to to developing a new product line, basically, if if you wanna call it that when when not not being closed minded as as to anything.

And in term if if you wanna be larger size, I think that's the thing is to don't limit yourself.

And and and now I know, like, a lot of dealers and, like, if I was just starting as a part time dealer, I would say, yeah, maybe limiting yourself is a good idea.

You know? Learn everything you can about WNBA cards or formula one cards or or modern baseball or vintage baseball and and focus on that.

But once you get to a certain point like this and you've got multiple people working for you and health insurance and all, so you need to figure out ways to what can we sell them. How do we sell more stuff?

That's that's the question Jordan always asks. What do we need to do to sell more stuff? And and that's just kind of what you have to try to do is to try to try to be open minded and be willing to to try something different.

And and, you know, if something doesn't work right away, it's it's maybe it wasn't for you or maybe it's not in the world or maybe you just haven't hit the right thing yet.

So, that that's what I would say. You're you're an individual who was hitting the card show scene and then jumped on as work for a business that has been kind of thriving in the hobby ever since.

There's a lot of people listening that, you know, are those weekend show warriors setting up at shows and get excited.

Right? But they're they're they're still working their other job, and they're trying to figure out ways to maybe make the, the the the hobby in what they're doing on the dealer side their full time job.

Do you have any words of wisdom or piece of advice as we kinda round this out on what those individuals might think or what they should do to maybe take that idea that they have to the next level?

Well, I would say, you know, shows are kinda coming back pretty solidly right now. I would say get a table at a show. Set up at a show. When I first set up a show, I was just raising a little bit of money, and Brett Hall was real hot.

And I sold Brett Hall rookies for the first part of the show, and then I was buying them back for half the price, second half of the show.

And all of a sudden, I was doing one or two shows a week, and I was making more money at that than I was. So I quickly became a full time card show dealer. And, you know, it it helps if you it helps if you like sports.

It helps if you like something in nonsports, but it isn't necessary. Some of the best people I've ever seen in terms of buying cards, selling cards, aren't sports fans, don't know much of anything about it.

So, you know, but I would recommend just doing shows, like like, just starting up, getting a feel for it.

You know, maybe start selling stuff on eBay too. It's all competitive, but, you know, you'd be surprised how much you can learn with just the experience of being at a card show.

You know? Or just go in go into a card show, buy some stuff, and get a scanner and start to sell stuff, if it interests you.

You know? The most of anything else, that's what I would say. Find find find your way through experience of it, and you'd be surprised what you can do.

This was Eric at Krupp Cards. This was a ton of fun. Appreciate you talking through the business and your experience. We'll have to do this sometime again down the road. Sounds great. Thanks for having me.