I I like to do these regular check ins with my good friend, Kevin, the captain thirty seven. Today, we're gonna be talking about, shows and what's happening.

I think, we're hearing a lot about what's happening online, and it's always good to get a perspective from the, show scene. But without further ado, Kevin, it's been since November.

I mean, there's been DMs and stuff, but it's been a while since we spoke. So how are you doing? I'm doing well, man. Always a pleasure to come on. Looking forward to the conversation.

So let's start here. It's it was like I think Chris McGill posted this, and it I feel like it should've gotten a little more, momentum or more conversation around data that they're tracking in Card Ladder.

$295,000,000 in online sales in March, which is insane. It's the most stuff that Card Ladder has ever tracked, since they started the platform.

What I wanna do just from the out of the gates, like, that's a lot of momentum with online sales. I'm curious in show, are you seeing it's hard to obviously, you don't track all the sales.

I mean, you probably do individually, but are you seeing similar momentum that would align with what's happening online? Yeah. I mean, first off, back to your first point, I was surprised I didn't get more attention too.

It was like he posted it, and then I'm I'm surprised. You know? Bunch of different accounts didn't repost it. But it seems like a lot of those bigger accounts only like to repost the negative.

So I guess I think I think there's something, there too, and I, you know, got some specific accounts in mind with that. But it's amazing how crazy positive, data, and it's not getting reposted of everybody.

But regardless, I am definitely seeing it at shows. You know, things slowed out for me, between November and, like, February because of high school basketball season.

I think everybody knows that at this point. So I was only doing local shows. I haven't done any really big shows so far this year until this upcoming weekend. But I couldn't believe the sales at small local shows to start the year.

It's it's it's it's like it every year. Things always kinda die down, around the holidays. People freak out and and panic, and, oh my god. My cards are dropping and cancel my cards.

Well, it's the holidays. I'm pretty sure we had the exact same conversation at this time last year too. It's the same pattern. Like, the it's it's, you know that's like once the first of the year hits.

So I literally have a show on the first of the year every year. My local Dedham show does a New Year's Day show. So I see it firsthand. I mean, people are buying.

And for me, it's been great. Obviously, sales, at the end of the day, I wanna sell cards. Right? I gotta, you know, pay my bills. Right? But, I also wanna buy cards, and there's been less stuff coming up, or less stuff coming in trade.

Just people just straight buying stuff. So I've what that data showed on Carmelita from the online, you know, perspective, I'm seeing it definitely.

And I'm only talking from a smaller local show standpoint. I haven't done any bigger shows yet. And from what I've seen from my friends who've gone and traveled to bigger shows, it's been very, very similar.

So, very, very strong start to the year both, you know, online with that data point that Chris put up and at, from the local small local show standpoint.

When I say small local show, I'm talking like I set up at some thirty, forty table ones. I set up at, consistent one that's, like, 80 to 90 tables.

So in that ballpark because I know, obviously, smaller local show means something different from people in my area versus around the country, because we're spoiled In in the Boston area, we have a ton of shows.

Too many, but we we can talk about that a little bit later too. But, yeah, I'm definitely seeing exactly what that data showed, for sure. What what sort of, interest in, like, what categories what are people after right now, in person?

You're you're saying, you know, it's getting challenging to keep up on the buying side, but when people are coming to your table or your showcases, what are you seeing a a lot of people after right now?

So, you know, I I I can't speak on the whole market. Right? But, like, I have, obviously, I'm a Brady guy.

Right? I'm gonna have a ton of football and quarterbacks. I'm gonna have a a nicest selection of basketball, Michael Jordan, and then I'm gonna have vintage, mainly vintage baseball, probably 90% vintage baseball.

But I'll tell you, I I haven't seen demand like this for Tom Brady cards since COVID. I've sold just as many cards for Tom Brady to start the years that I did in COVID, which is crazy.

It's it's insane. It was almost like the Super Bowl reminded people, who the goat was and who the goat will be forever. And, you know, that's no knock on Mahomes. I mean, I'm a big Mahomes guy.

As a matter of fact, like, I'm looking to buy as much Mahomes as I possibly can right now. That's no secret. But, I mean, I I just traded into a huge, one of his, his Prism orange BSA ten couple weeks ago. I'm getting as much as I can.

But the the game and how it went, the fact that Tom Brady was announcing it, I just the the demand has been insane for him to the point that for the first time in a long time, I almost feel uncomfortable with the amount of Brady I have in the sense I I don't have enough, and that's saying something.

Yes. And, of course, like, me not having enough is very different than somebody else not having enough Brady. I'm just one of the Brady guys. Right? So I wanna have an overabundance of Brady stuff.

But, like, I was I was going through the other day, and I got a big show coming up this weekend. So I'm I'm, like, kind of a little light on him for the first time in, I don't know, thirty seven years.

Right? It just it's it's crazy. So high high high demand for him. Vintage baseball, always high demand. It it's a consistent and if you and and what I love about vintage baseball, it's collectors buying that consistently.

Right? It isn't the young quarterback market where every, you know, 12 to 20 year old is trying to buy the young quarterbacks eighty percent and sell them within a week.

Right? There's a collective base there, a strong collective base for vintage.

So I've really enjoyed that space in getting into it over the past two, two and a half years. Obviously, any nineties inserts, you know, that's we we see that in all data points, posted online and and the strong sales there.

I don't have a ton of that stuff. Would love to get into it. I just I don't see the opportunity as much in my area.

Mhmm. And then in terms of the young quarterback market, people still want Burrow, and I and I'm one of them. I'm a huge, huge Joe Burrow guy. You know, you look at his stats last year, MVP stats if his, you know, defense didn't suck.

So, Jaden Daniels, very popular, and and and Grayson loves Jaden Daniels. Just pulled him just pulled a nice green wave prism out of a a hanger pack my mom bought him the other day. He was all fired up.

We reacted like it it was like the reaction when me and Joaquin pulled the the Mahomes RPA, NT at the national. We went nuts. It was great. So definitely, hi to me for Jaden. My area, Drake May, especially people love Drake May.

Obviously, I'm in Patriots country. And then Michael Jordan. I mean, when isn't there demand for Michael Jordan? And, I've I've funny. I I had a card that, somebody I knew wanted, and I forgot to bring it to a show a couple weeks ago.

And I brought it, and he kind of, you know, looking at it and saying he wants it wants it, but the the car went up, like, a hundred $50, since the time he wanted it and since the time that I put it out in the showcase.

Right? So I kinda met him in the middle and gave him a deal because I felt bad because I knew that he wanted it for the PC. But Jordan stuff, steady, increase definitely since the start of the year for sure.

And I've also upped a ton of Tom Brady prices as well. So it's not just it's it's a high demand. It's high sales, but it's also, like, you know, prices are definitely increasing, across the board.

I can only speak on the categories I just spoke to. I can't speak on different markets there. But for what I'm seeing I mean, if you look at my price tags from January 1 till now, they're definitely different.

They're and and they've they've gone up. And it there's the data to back it up. It's like I'm just raising them just to raise them. Right? It's it's all based on comps.

So, you know, definitely, high demand, high interest there. The one thing I'll say, the one guy that I'm surprised that I'm not and and may this is just me in my area, and I don't think he's as liked in my area, but it's Luca.

I thought Luca, once he got traded to the Lakers, his stuff will be on fire. And I definitely saw an increase in the market in his in his pricing.

I I raised a ton of my price. I have probably, like, four or five Luca cards right now, but they haven't moved, since the trade, which I found a little weird. And once again, I'm in Boston.

You know, the Celtics just played them last year in the finals. I I think that he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in that series and is, you know, how he reacts and is is begging for calls and stuff like that.

But, I'd be curious to talk to some of my friends outside my area to see how he's moving.

Because I would have thought going to that market and obviously pairing up with LeBron and, you know, a legit chance to make the finals now, there there'd be a higher demand there.

But not in my area from what I've seen. But, that's kinda what I see into and then, oh, man, Pokemon, Brett. Like Everywhere we go, that's the chat right now.

Listen, man. I don't know a damn thing about it. Right? I don't know, you know, but I'll tell you. I've learned a lot in the past two weeks because it just you know, this kinda came out of nowhere for Gray.

He didn't you know, he he doesn't understand how Pokemon is. Right? But he's like, you know, one day he's in his room. He's like, daddy, I like to because he collected Pokemon a lot when he was younger.

You know? And then they would they put him in McDonald's, Happy Meals and stuff so we get into it through that. He's like, I'd like to turn my Pokemon cards into sports cards.

Can we try to sell some of them or trade them? I said, sure, buddy. You know? And I had very small local show popping up where, couple ex players who ran it, ex football guys that I coached, were into Pokemon. So I said, alright.

The phrase is a perfect show to get some stuff ready to roll. So, I mean, that kid, we spent ten hours together. That's that's a soft estimate probably. Literally, him sitting here, you wanna talk about a focus, I put it in my story.

Focus to terminate your old. Right? Like, he wanted to go to the show and get some sports cards to his Pokemon cards, and mission accomplished for him, man. He he cleaned up.

It was awesome. But, I mean, from five year olds to, you know, grown men, you know, just super high demand for Pokemon. It was funny. We were talking to a a gentleman probably my age, and he he was doing the exact opposite of Grayson.

He was trying to turn his sports cards into Pokemon cards. So I said it was a good conversation piece for Gray because I was like, buddy, this is, you know, this is the hobby.

Right? There's something for everybody and, you're trying to do this and he's trying to do that. So, yeah, Pokemon is super hot, and there's a there's a ton of TCG shows popping up my area.

The best flipping show that I set up at in Woburn, which is probably it's it's probably inching closer to half and half Pokemon and sports cards, but they do a whole separate TCG show, that's packed now.

It's just it's in the Mohegan Sun Show I set up at, twice a year, actually three times a year, and I'm doing it again in June.

But, that's kinda half and half Pokemon. It's it's it's crazy. I know nothing about it. I know more now. Like, I know some more names besides Pikachu and Charizard, right, in in pricing, 7,000 cards with Grayson.

But, super high demand. I just can't I I I know nothing about it. I have no interest in it, but, there's definitely a ton of interest there right now.

I hope it stays scorching hot. And, like, when I walk by your table at the National, you're you're selling somebody a squirtle and, like, talking about all the characteristics and why this card is a can't miss.

That's what I'm hoping for. But maybe we we go me in the background, like, said, there it is. Told you. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Maybe we go back to our comfort zone a little bit with Brady.

I'm curious. I think it just makes sense that anybody who's been collecting Brady probably, you know, is smart about timing and approaching kind of he's always gonna be the guy, so it just makes sense to buy his stuff.

When people are coming up and buying his stuff, is it I'm curious because it's I think we can look at football just through the lens of what's happening with Brady's cards.

Are are people like, what kind of segments within the Brady market are people after? Are you are you getting into some of those higher end conversations? Is it mostly lower end?

Maybe talk about what's moving. Yeah. I mean so I have I mean, my one of my big goals as a dealer is to have, variety of price points. Right? So I literally have brand new cars from $20 to you know, we're talking 5 figures.

Right? So and the crazy part is every segment has moved. There has not been one. That just shows me that just that's when you know it's just the demand for the player versus something specific in terms of a a different segment. Right?

So, mean, I've moved a ton of patches this year from the in Jersey cars from, like, the fifth the $60 range to, like, the, you know, $1,500 range. I don't have a heavy supply of autos right now. It's one area I'm a little light in.

But just moved one at the small local show I set up at the other day. I moved his it was a BGS eight five ten autographics rookie. So you're talking something in the three k ballpark there. Moved a huge rookie, a few weeks back.

I had his, his Bowman promotion rookie, PSA nine. And, you know, you're talking, you know, in eight to 10 k card right there, that moved with, like, a five minute deal at a show, with a friend of mine.

We kind of talked about it before, but that moved, you know, his shiny stuff. I'm super light on shiny stuff, which for me, that bothers me emotionally because, I mean, you and I are shiny guys.

Right? So, you know, it's it's gonna be some hard look at the you know, we're coming up upon usually, mid May is when I, reserve a Friday night, light a couple candles, have a bottle of caffeine and diet coke, and then do the PC purge.

Right? Getting ready for the nationals.

That's gonna be tough for this year because I I wanna have a good stockpile of Brady, but we're starting to, like, you know, do I dip this much in the PC? What do I do? So there's definitely some tough decisions there.

And then rookie cards have been a huge demand for him. I I think that's naturally where people go, when they wanna get into a player. I want a rookie. Right? So, I'm super light. I'm I've probably gone through since the January 1.

Now we're only talking me setting up at small local shows. I wanna keep that perspective. Right? Because you go to bigger shows and Brady, Bumrungs move like candy. Right? They're they're basically like cash.

But I've probably gone through, I'm gonna I'm gonna say 12 Bumrungs and Brady rookies since the first of the year. And when you think about only setting up a smaller local shows, that's a that's a huge number.

So the Bowman Chrome and the Bowman papers, usually people that's like the the the get my toes in the sand type card for Brady. I'm ready points to that one. So it's it's really been every piece of, you know, what would you could have?

Game use, rookies, autos, shiny stuff, inserts. It's all been moving, which has shown there's an overwhelming demand for the player versus a specific segment of his market.

You mentioned Luka not moving right now, which you thought maybe based on change of environment that might cause maybe an uptick. What what on the NBA side, people coming up to your table, what are people after?

What do they want? Well, Jordan, definitely. But we're talking current NBA players. I mean, Tatum is obviously a big demand in my area. And there's more of a demand because they want like, he you know, they won the championship.

Right? And, you know, he didn't get Eastern Conference finals MVP or finals MVP, which I think Eastern Conference finals should've went to Jaylen Brown.

No question. I think the finals MVP was a fifty fifty call, and I actually would've given it to Tatum based on his final game closing performance, but, that's a different conversation. But his market went down.

Definitely won the finals. Right? It's almost like it just blows my mind. It shows how crazy things can be in the market. Right? Like, guy finally gets it done and because he doesn't win MVP, he's not getting the respect he deserves.

But I'll tell you, that might have been the best freaking thing that could've happened to the Celtics, because he has played with a fire this year, and he has been unbelievable.

And I if if Porzingis stays healthy, I firmly believe they're taking care of business again and and doing it again, and he will be the MVP because he is the Celtics' best player.

Anybody who was trying to argue Jaylen Brown was better than him, if you've watched this, you just out of your mind.

You don't know basketball. Right? I'm not trying to, you know, not like a jerk, but you just don't know basketball if you think Jaylen Brown is better than Jayson Tatum.

So definitely a demand for him. Shay, huge demand for Shay. And I don't come across a ton of his cards, but I probably had four different people this weekend ask me for him.

There was talk about a devastating blow of the hobby. There was a huge demand for Wembley All Year until, obviously, that happened, with the whole, blood clot issue he has.

So, you know, fingers crossed and prayers up to him. Hopefully, he gets right. Not just for the hobby, say, for the NBA sake, the guy is just he's he's so fun to watch and just he does look like an alien out there.

The nickname's appropriate. Right? It's just he's the guys that big aren't supposed to do the things he does.

So there was a massive demand for him to start the year to the point that I was like I literally got into a PSA ten, prism silver rookie of him the day before that news came out.

Right? I'm like, you know, come on, man. Like, the random it away there. Exactly. Put it away as well. Listen. I and I had a conversation this weekend with somebody about, your boy Anthony Richardson.

Right? And, you know, what to do with his cards. Right? I'm sitting on a PSA 10, so you can't win them all, man. Right? Anybody who anybody who says I've never taken a loss in a car.

Right? I don't lose on cards. You're you're so full of shit, man. Like, it it's you know, if if you if you do it enough and you you're doing high volumes of deals, you're gonna lose on some stuff.

It is what it is. But, yeah, Shea, Tatum in my area for sure. And and that's you know? And like I said, I'm I'm just you know, Luka kinda started out slow with the Lakers. Right? And, you know, people forgot he was coming off an injury.

I mean, I you know, it seems like he's injured a lot, which, you know, he's you know, that's a a lot of talk about the the whole out of shape, in shape deal with him, after the the championship last year.

But, I mean, I I think the Lakers are gonna make a run. I do. I think it's gonna I I can't see how his demand wouldn't pick up. And once again, I'm only speaking from my area, and I don't think he's well liked in my area.

So that there's a major impact, if I'm just showing selling people for for what I've seen. But I'm like, you know, I had a couple. I had, like, a select silver PSA ten rookie.

I'm like, oh, man. This will be gone, you know, in in one or two shows still sitting in the showcase. Moved a couple lower end ones, but, you know, stuff in, like, the the 3 to thousand dollar range just I haven't moved now.

I'm just I'm just kinda curious why, but it could be a luckability factor. I he he left a lot of sour taste in in in Bostonians miles after that, last, the championship and kinda how that went down, his attitude, and things like that.

So, yeah, definitely NBA demand for sure, and, obviously, the playoffs are gonna dictate that a lot. The other guy I'll mention too is Kate Cunningham. You know, I've always liked Kate Cunningham.

And, I mean, the you know, think back in the day, like, with the the the, you know, the Bad Boy Pistons and then, like, the, you know, the the Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups and Rasheed Wallace era pistons.

Right? Like, the NBA is better when the pistons are good. It's fun to see this young team, gonna be in the playoffs, looking like the five or six seed right now, but that kid is a stud.

And, that's a random guy I've asked. I I I only have one, like, a lower end one, like a hundred, hundred and $25 1, but I definitely have people asking for him as well.

So cool to see a guy who, has been great, kinda start to get some, you know, respect and and some notice, the fact that the Pistons are actually relevant.

It'll be in the playoffs, so that's cool. Maybe a a comment, then I'll kick it back to you about some, people here locally in Indianapolis, but you mentioned Richardson.

And and the farthest thing I wanna do is turn this into a a Richardson podcast. But just for anybody holding and I'll say, the jury is still out.

It's very very apparent. Jury is still out. But I did if you are holding AR right now, you consider the age factor and compare it with Kim Ward and guys being drafted this year.

And, also, I can't remember the draft analyst. Somebody, like, I follow, and I just it it escapes me. But someone said, if Anthony Richardson was coming out this year, he would be the number one overall pick.

And I was like, you know what? I hadn't thought about that. That's interesting perspective. So we're hoping here in Indy, and if you're holding his cards, that there's some positive development, but it's cards, man.

And prospecting these guys, it it can be a gamble for sure. No doubt. I'm I'm I'm curious. My you know, my father's a diehard Colts fan.

Right? So we've had many conversations about this. My dad doesn't like him at all, and more so because of the the leadership questions and things like that that have come out. Right? My dad's very old school. Alright?

But I'm just it it's a tough situation for the Colts. Right? Because when you have a young player who is not showing the work ethic and leadership that you want him to show, you do wanna bring in competition form, which the Colts did.

Right? But at the same time, like, him not getting if they're splitting first team reps, him not getting those reps, it's it's detrimental to him too.

So it's a really, you know, seems like it's in a tough situation in that organization. Like, what because this is I think this is the year for Rick. It made it's made a friend. Right? But you have to start him, man.

I mean, the the only the only thing with him, you know, he's a career, like, low 50% completion percentage player. Right? And that hasn't improved. And that that's what I'm looking at from a investment standpoint.

Like, man, I'm like, you know, first of all, if you think he's got any hope, go buy some now. It's as low as it possibly can be. Right? When you talk about cost based average.

Right? Like, if I got into a prism silver for $400 and I buy one for a hundred, a hundred and 50, like, you know, I'm not saying go invest, Anthony Richardson, please. Don't take that away from this podcast.

I'm just saying that if you do think there's hope and you like the kid, maybe time will throw a few bucks there because you can lower your cost base average on your on on a pro card basis for what you're into.

But, lot of natural ability, I think, back to that 70 yard touchdown pass to to Alex Pierce. Right? You know, just total awkward body throw and puts it on a dime. Like but then he can't complete a five yard hitch.

So it's like, you know, what what's gonna happen? But I think the Colts in a really, really tough spot with him in terms of, like, alright. We wanna light a fire under his ass and give him some competition.

At the same time, he's not getting those reps. So, like, what do you do? So I think we're gonna see I think I think he will be the verdict will be out in the first month of the season.

Because if he starts slow, I think it's over. I really do. But I'm hoping he doesn't. Yeah. It's the splitting of the reps is definitely a topic of conversation here locally.

I think the competition is positive, but it's crazy because from a talent perspective, the offense has you know, hopefully, they can draft Tyler Ward or actually get a tight end.

But outside of that, it's a pretty solid offense. They just need someone to, make the easy throw. So that's what we've been doing. I hate that the tight ends is what you guys are missing.

Right? You got a lot of young talent and receiver. You know, and sorry for taking Brock Bowers again last year. Oh, my god. Yeah. Right? But I mean, you get Warren. I I I it's a nice piece. I mean, then I mean, there's no excuses.

He's got the pieces. Right? So it's like at at some point, buddy, it's on you. So hopefully Yeah. Hopefully, you can step it up, get it done, and and kinda rejuvenate his his cards a little bit for the market.

Because between, you know, having both him and Stroud struggle last year was killer. Right? Because they were they were two of the hottest names at the national.

You know, there's always, I'm sure we'll we'll do a podcast for the national. Right? There's always there's always, like, two or three quarterbacks that are the guys at the national.

Right? And and those two guys were definitely on that list, last year. No doubt. And they both flopped. Right? And while Houston made the playoffs, I've struggled tremendously statistically, and, his market absolutely knows that.

But, it'll be curious to see who, those guys will be this year at the national, who will be the dudes that everybody's going after. But it's always kind of fun to watch and and see how that unfolds.

Oh, yeah. We'll we'll have to do a deep dive because I feel like just focusing quarterbacks and what's happening and what people are doing will be worth a chat down the road between us.

But, before we get off the basketball, I gotta ask just because I haven't talked to anyone about this. I've just been seeing online and, you know, the sales and everything what's happening.

Like, at the like, in in the show scene, is there as much buzz and momentum around Caitlin Clark as what's happening online or not? Talk to me a little bit about that.

So I've owned, like, I think, two Caitlin Clark arts, and they were just kinda low end, select rookies, like, in the $15. 20 dollar range, whatever. But, she's definitely asked about and talked about, and I have her stuff walk up to me.

I'm just, not a segment I'm I'm gonna get into, unless somebody was giving something away, basically. I just I don't have the the consistent buyers for that area.

But I've seen some cool freaking Caitlin Clark cars, man. You know? And I think, you know and then and then you got Paige from Yukon, you know, coming into, projected number one pick, I think.

Right? So, like Mhmm. You know, it it's you know, there's no denying that women's basketball is in a good spot right now, right, both at the collegiate and the WNBA level.

But I'm definitely I'm asked about her. You see a lot of little girls walking around wearing her jerseys, asking about her, which I love. I love that. You know, but I I don't come across her and I I I won't let me rephrase.

I do come across her because I'm just not a buyer on them, you know, at this point because it's just a it's a market I don't feel comfortable getting involved in because I don't know enough about it.

She's definitely in demand no doubt. I can't even imagine what the demand is in your area. I mean, that's It's crazy. It's yeah. I mean, people aren't even talking about Anthony Richardson because everyone's talking about Caitlin Clark.

That's the wild part about it. And then real quick, prism basketball. Right? So it's crazy that WNBA prism basketball is priced more than NBA basketball.

Like, that that right there shows you how far women's basketball has come by crazy. Because it because this draft class sucks for the NBA. Right? And she is just Yes.

Yeah. I went to, went to Foxwoods A Couple Weeks back, to watch. It was a sweet 16 with a group of buddies and one of them big WNBA fan and loves Caitlin Clark and he bought like a a blaster box of the new prism that came out.

And, we went nuts. He pulled a, like, I guess they make these like logo. They put around the board and there's them, and he pulled the Caitlin Clark.

We went freaking nuts. Right? Like, it was it was awesome. And I'm I had no dog in the fight. I'm I'm I'm, you know, my five member is it's just it's just cool to see a friend's pull cool shit, man.

It's awesome. You know? Yeah. We need I I feel like anyone listening to you talking about ripping stuff, people just need to buy something and be around you to rip it because everyone's pulling good stuff.

I don't yeah. And and I don't I don't pull good stuff, but, like, I'm the hype man. Like, people pull good stuff around me, like, seriously. Right between that, between Gray, between Joaquin last year.

Right? Like, it's it's, yeah, I'm I'm the guy you wanna be around to rip stuff. That's for sure. We we talked about this, like, the online sentiment and how it was crazy. No one talked about, like, the month of March in sales.

I feel like you do a nice job, and you've always got thoughts and opinions just around, like, this is what I see in is and what is what what is happening in real life when I'm talking to people and, you know, running my business.

And then you also spend time like we all do on Instagram seeing what people are sharing.

Is there anything I I guess, anything that's happening at the show scene that you think is notable that's not getting, kind of recognized at the online?

And then, like, is there some anything happening online that people are saying that you're just like, it's completely counter to maybe what you're seeing at shows? Yeah. So, I mean, it's it's it's a it's a repacker world right now.

And that's you know, you see that online. You see all these, you know, big accounts that post their stacks of cash and say they're buying and just, first of all, that's the tackiest shit.

I say it all the time. Like, I have plenty of friends who have a lot of money who don't need to flaunt it on Instagram to show that they have a lot of money.

Right? But, you know, but I I think that's what gets lost sometimes is there's still a lot of collectors out there. Like, I would say that 80% of my deals this year have been with collectors, and I think that's great.

Right? Because end of the day, it's ebbs and flows. Right? Repackers are gonna go away at some point down the road, and wax will pick back up.

Everything goes, ebbs and flows in the hobby. Right? But the the the main thing that needs to be there for our cars to be worth something down the road is our collectors.

Right? And that's there. I've done a shit ton of deals with collectors this year. You know, so I think that's important.

I think that sometimes gets lost when you see all these stacks of cash and buying cards, $50 to 50 k and all this stuff. Right? And you see all the high end accounts, and all the high end repackers and whatnot and shit like that.

And listen, that's all fine and dandy. Right? And, you know, cards are more liquid right now than they probably ever been because of the repack game.

Right? Because these guys are buying at such strong percentages. Right? But, I think what gets lost in the shuffle sometimes is the collector, and there's still plenty out there.

I've done it, definitely 80%, if not more, of my business this year with collectors who are stashing stuff in their PCs or looking to do a long term hold.

Maybe you're not PC ingrated, but you wanna buy one a whole long term to kinda see where it goes, the whole blue chip stock mentality.

But I think that gets lost in a lot of the stuff you see on on Instagram, and that's still very prevalent. The the collectors are out there, and they're spending money and they're buying.

And then it's important people understand. So I I was not turned on granted. I go to, like, two shows maybe a year, and I wasn't turned on to the repacker front.

It was, like, just a blind spot for me. I did had no idea it was happening until I had a conversation with, Mike MC Sports Cards, and he was talking about, you know, its impact on his business.

The I don't know. Like, is how, like, how do you know if how do you know that the individuals are who are coming up to your table are buying for repacks?

Like, do these individuals stand out like a sore thumb at shows? Like, maybe share some perspective. And then also just, like, overall, like, long term, do you think it's it's good for cards or or not?

So I like your podcast because I can speak freely. Right? So usually the usually the doucheier someone is, that that's more likely that they're a repacker. Right? And that's just sorry, guys.

That's that's the that's the realm you fall on. That's just facts. Right? And they usually the first question is, you know, if I buy a bunch of stuff, what percentage can you let it go at? So that's that's the big, red flag.

And for me, like, I don't deal with them a lot because, like, you know, I don't feel pressure to sell and and flip super quickly because I have a good, clientele base, and I set up at these shows and people, you know, I'm alone.

I've I've worked to build that right. And, you know, at the end of the day, like, you know, there there's so many of them out there right now that, like, what it boils down to is relationships.

Like and that's what that's where a lot of these guys aren't gonna last. I I I just don't see it. Right?

So I I for me, I I'd much rather deal with somebody I know, feel comfortable with even if it means I'm losing a few bucks versus selling to somebody who is just gonna treat me like a their calculator in their phone, like dollar symbols.

Right? Like, I think that matters a lot. Right? And that's kind of how I built my business and my brand, and I I think it's paid off. I think that's gonna pay off in the long run.

Because now you have some of these bigger repackers having these young kids, like, buy for them. Right? And these young kids just don't know how to to do business, right, and and how to conduct themselves.

Right? And, you know, anytime I deal with one that does, I usually cut them a deal because I just it it's it's it's it's it's it's so great to see.

Like, I can think of a a deal I did, a couple shows back, where somebody came to my table. I knew it was a repacker, tried to buy a card.

I gave him the price. And then a kid similar age, probably the 16, 17 ballpark came up. We had a conversation about the car, the player, and they asked you a price, and I quoted him a lower price, and he bought it.

Just to for me, just on principle. Right? Like, look at this look at this young man. We wanna have a conversation with me, you know, like a like an adult. You could tell, you know, great parents.

Dad was kind of chilling in the background. Right? And I was just like, you know, let's let me hook this kid up a little bit. Let him go make a couple bucks if he wants to versus the kid who comes up.

Hey. If I buy this, this, and this, what percentage? Not even like, hey. How are you doing today? Like, you don't know, you know, just that stuff goes a long way with me, man.

We we talk all the time. I'm old school. You know? Like, that that stuff goes a long way with me. So, but, yeah, I just it's definitely a repacker's game right now with shows, and you you know?

And, you know, some of them pay a super strong percentage because they just go put it in a in a in a, you know, their repack, and they mark it up a little bit, and they make their money there.

But, I just with there's just so much repacker competition right now. I just can't see this. I think that the the show landscape and this landscape is gonna look very different in five years. That's all I'll say.

And I think that if you wanna be around in five years, setting up a show as moving cards, how you treat people, how you conduct yourself, how you conduct yourself, the relationships you have with people, that's what's gonna matter, down the road.

The message we've been hearing, you know, ever since kind of fanatics took over was, you know, grow, grow the hobby. You know? We make fun of, like, the the10exitcom comment and commentary.

But if you look at what Fanatics has been doing from a business perspective, right, you know, putting athletes on in rip nights, making cars more visible, getting mentions on sports broadcast.

I think that awareness is is a good thing. Do you do you see when you're at a show, do you see that having a direct impact on maybe, like, new collectors entering the hobby for the first time?

Are you seeing that at all, or is it mostly just kind of the same crowd? Do you know how many conversations I still have about the Brady thing? And meeting Dude, I was just thinking about it the other day.

For whatever reason, I was just I was it was like, it happened, and then it's like then it went out, out of sight, out of mind, and then I was like, that was really cool. Like, that's Crazy.

So, like, I mean, literally, I mean, you you know, I was set up at the show, this this weekend, and, you know, my my two ex players who've known it, they said they're like, coach, like, we've had four different people come in and say, oh my god.

The guy who met Brady is here. Right? Like, you know, And and that is all because of fanatics. Right? And listen. You can say people can talk all the shit they want about fanatics.

And, you know, I think a lot of it is just the the the stereotypical hate for big corporate, right, America. And but, I mean and listen. I don't you know, I'm a big tops chrome finest guy that you know, and you are too.

Right? I I can't stand the way those products look right now. I'm hoping things change once they get the license and the Zappo uniforms and stuff like that.

But, you can't deny the fact that them placing people closer to athletes is may having a huge impact on the hobby. Right? Huge impact. Look at Cardvall. Right? I mean and Brady's gonna be there for the opening this week.

And I man, if I didn't have that show this week and I already committed to it, I I would be down in New Jersey, you know, there for sure. Like How do they have enough room for the crown that's gonna I have no idea.

I actually wanted I wanted to text, Chris Costa. And it's but how how are you guys doing this? Right? Like, I mean, it's gonna be, you know, Afrinatics, no no one knew what's happening.

Right? I mean, if people knew what was happening, I mean, he would have been with us for thirty seconds because there would have been so many people in that area.

They would have had to get him out of there. Right? But, you know, you see the trade nights athletes showing up at at at hobby shops and car it's just it's so cool, man.

I mean, you can't deny that that is great for the hobby, because, you know, bottom line, it's it's freaking cool, man, to meet an athlete, to meet somebody you collect. You know, what a surreal freaking moment for me.

I still think about it and still have conversations about it, and it's still I I had a buddy to text me, like, about a month back. He's like, dude, it just popped up my feed again on Instagram.

Like, it's still popping up. Right? So, their ability to do stuff like that is if their goal is to 10 times it, they they're taking the right step and doing things like that.

Can you bring common people like me closer to athletes, right, it it's it's only going to, you know, amplify how big this can become.

Hopefully, Cardvault has palettes and palettes of tops product just somewhere because people are gonna be in there and probably spending a lot of money.

No doubt. Let's let's talk about I'm you've touched on this a little bit, and you've mentioned, like, you know, vintage baseball having, you know, collector base, and you always try to have it around.

But in this era of the hobby, and I'm not you know, you we've talked about repackers, and I'm you're not changing things necessarily because of repackers.

But just like in this environment right now where there's a lot of growth, have you been reshaping or rethinking kind of your inventory and what you have? So funny when you sent me, the list of topics, I did my usual, you know, notes.

Right? The teacher and me. Right? The teacher. Yeah. That was one that I had a pretty easy response to, and it's I'm changing nothing. My my philosophy has always been have a wide variety of stuff at a wide variety of price points.

Right? So you can hit as many people as possible. Right? Because the bottom line, if someone walks up to your showcase looking to get a high end card, you have all low on stuff, they're just gonna walk away.

Right? And on the flip side, if somebody walks up to your showcase with a hundred bucks and you have all cards priced a thousand dollars more, they're just gonna walk away.

Right? So I'm doing, so I guess the one slight change, a little bit more value type stuff.

Like, I have, I had a three row of football, like, stuff like $1, 10 dollar. That was more so, from, stuff that, you know, Joaquin and I have broken and we you know, just to kinda get it out and try to get it off for sale.

Somebody bought the whole box at this local show that was set up at. I try to have, like, a value slab like these, actually have literally right at my desk right now. These dome boxes, little free advertisement for the dome box.

And I'll have, like, you know, $50, a hundred $50 slabs of football or basketball. So I've tried to do a little bit more stuff like that. Once again, just trying to reach all people and have all price points available.

But, I mean, once I stuff gets pulled in the showcase, I just pull stuff out of those and put them in the showcase. Right? But, my philosophy with having a different variety is just it's still the same.

Right? And, that was when I didn't have five years back, and I I definitely wouldn't be where I am or or I'd still be, I'd be in the classroom right now if I didn't do that.

Right? 09:40. I'd be, like, probably advisory break time at Barbell High School right now.

Right? But, you have to have a variety of stuff because, you know, it it's it's all about the more people you can reach, and and that's that's the better you're gonna do.

Right? So getting a division for shoes for me, doing more with basketball and younger quarterbacks was a necessity for sure.

You know, all important stuff. Just have a wide variety of stuff. That's been my goal, and and I've really I'm always gonna be somebody, who's gonna have low end and high end price points.

I really take pride in that and having something for everybody because, you know, you got a little kid who wants Tom Brady.

You know, he can't afford, you know, a thousand dollar card, have some, you know, 20 to a hundred dollar stuff that he can buy or trade into or something like that.

I you know? And, obviously, me, that was great. Right? I, you know, I I wanna have stuff for my son. Right? And I and when we go to shows, I want people to have stuff that he that is attainable to him.

Right? Although I'll tell you, he's he's going after bigger cards nowadays, with some of the trades we did recently. You know, picked up, like, a $500 Jordan off me and trade the other day.

My wife's like, what are you doing? You're just, like, giving it I'm like, no. What like, listen. He has trade bait to do this deal. Like, it's not like I'm you know, listen.

He gets he gets the the Sun discount, no doubt, but it's like he's got good stuff. You know, he's pulled or whatever else. So, yeah, so just strategically a little bit more, value type stuff. I try to have them.

Nothing has really changed in in in my business model in terms of what I'm doing at shows. What about, are you do you when you're set up, are you doing a lot of dealer deals with other d dealers that are in that space?

Maybe talk talk about that. Few and far between these days. I mean, I think the the repackers almost dodged my table at this point in my area because they know. You know, first of all, I don't really like you.

And since and second, I, I can't sell stuff to you at 85% if I'm getting you to 85% myself. Right? So it's it's less if I joke about that. I like you thing. I've done I have good relationships with plenty of them in my area.

Some have actually really good friends. But it's just like I can't sell to you at this number. If I get into it, that number doesn't make any sense. I'm basically just you know? From a business model standpoint, it makes no sense.

Right? So I think that if you're a dealer right now, you gotta make a decision. Right? Do you want to buy stuff and flip it quick at super tight margins just to get rid of it? Right? Or are you okay being patient? Right?

Because back to what I talked about earlier, there are plenty of collectors buying cards right now. So I'm a more patient person. Like, I'll I'll wait a month or two in a car to get the number I need to get, and I'll and I'll get it.

Right? Because eventually, you'll find the collector who wants it. Right? So there's two different mentalities right now. It's alright. Can I buy it at 83% and sell it to 86 to a repacker just to get rid of it and keep it moving?

Or can I buy it at 85 and just be patient and and price it at a hundred and eventually get 95 to a hundred from a collector? Right? So that's where I'm at.

So that's it it's just it's two different ways of doing business, and they're both successful. And I I see I see people who go buy a car for under a bus, sell it for, you know, $1. 10, and they're happy with that.

Right? And and or buy a car for a thousand bucks, sell it for $10. 50. They're happy with that. I I couldn't be. Doesn't make sense to me. Right? And I I think part of it goes back to, I love cards. I'm still very much a collector.

Right? So I'm okay sitting on stuff. I don't have a you know, I'm I'm fortunate where I am in my life right now where, like, I don't have a ton of pressure to, like, I have to I have to do this this weekend.

Otherwise, we're eating ramen noodles for the weekend. Right? So, like and listen.

I I get if you're in that situation, you gotta flip stuff quicker. I'm just not in that situation right now. So, like, I don't appeal to repackers like other people might. So, yeah, not a ton of deal deal interaction these days.

Usually, the deal with the dealer interaction, and that's actually my favorite part is trades. Right? So, like, you know, my buddy has had this card that he a lot of times it's Brady.

Right? Because people, if they get stuck with a Brady, they know I can move it. They might have something that I'm having a difficult time moving, and you kinda just do a swap there.

I love those types of deals because it's almost like you you're helping each other out. Right? Like, I'm stuck with this, Giannis car they haven't been able to move. Right? And, you got a Brady, and and you do better with basketball.

Let's figure something out, and I'll take those few off your hands. You take this. So that's really where the dealer dealer interaction comes with me nowadays is kinda trades for, alright. You got steel inventory.

I got this. Let's see how we can work something out to try to help each other out. Are are trades happening with, attendees too, or is it mostly cash deals? So I would say that this year, it's probably been, like, 70% mostly cash deals.

And not that people haven't tried to trade, but it's the same stuff. Like, I don't see good I'm I'm very I mean, you see, I post my wants and my, you know, list before I go into bigger shows.

Right? I'm specific with my wants. Like, I'm not gonna trade a Tom Brady card for a bunch of, CJ Stroud stuff or young quarterback stuff or, like, seeing a shit ton of modern baseball right now, which I just I don't do.

I don't have any interest in it. You know, I know some of the names, obviously, you know, Tanya, what he's doing for the sport.

Right? But I just I wouldn't take that on because I don't have, people aren't coming to me to buy modern baseballs, and I wouldn't do it. Right? So I think that, people have definitely tried to trade.

I just haven't seen as much stuff that I want to have in my showcases and I feel comfortable with, so far this year. I'm curious how that will look going into bigger shows now. Because for me, I haven't done any multi day shows yet.

This is the first one coming up this weekend. The lucky card shows in, Shriner's Auditorium, Wilmington Mass this weekend. I'll be there Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Little shameless plug there. But, yeah.

So, like, I I'm curious how to look now with bigger shows. Right? And then, obviously, we got, you know, in June, I'll be in your neck of the woods, right, at the Midwest Monster, then it's Fanatics Fest, then it's the National.

Right? So, you get to the bigger shows, you see some better stuff usually.

But, you know, it's been mostly, I would say, 70% sales for me this year. And for me, like, when people ask about a card and ask if you take trade, I take trade on higher end cards.

So, like, stuff that I got in my, Dom boxes value slabs, like, 200 and under. I'm not gonna take trade on that type of stuff. I just wanna sell that stuff. You know, card $500 plus.

I'll definitely take some trade and stuff like that, especially if I'm dealing with a younger kid who I don't know doesn't necessarily have that cash, but they wanna try to get the car they really wanted for their collection.

They got a couple things I think I can move. I'll do that. But, yeah. So definitely less trading this year, but probably not by, you know, customers have wanted to.

It's just it's it's in terms of, like, what do I wanna take in, based on the card that I'm well, unless if it's a card that I've had for a while that I that I hate and I wanna get rid of, I'll take I'll I'll expand the horizons a lot more.

Right? But, you know, if you're trying to trade for a Jordan or a Brady or a Mantle or something like that, like, it's gotta be good stuff.

Otherwise, I just rather keep my card. You know? So I know we we will do a dedicated, episode pre national talking about the national.

But Absolutely. I I want to maybe get some understanding of, one, like, are you thinking about the national right now, especially in this environment where things seem to be picking up?

And then two, if so, like, what does that mean? Like, is it just, like, how you're thinking, planning? Because it it feels far away right now, but I it's one of those things that'll be here before we know it.

Yeah. I've I've had a I'm thinking about it a lot. I've had a ton of conversations about the national people over the last month. Some friends who are going for the first time kinda asking for advice, and I told them, hey.

Listen. We can talk, but, like, you know, two weeks for the national, I'm gonna go live and do all the do's and don'ts, all the usual stuff I do.

I actually mentioned you. I said I'll I'll be on my buddy Brett's podcast. Like, we'll talk about so, like, you're gonna get a ton of information.

It's gonna be helpful. Right? But for me, I wanna buy as much. I wanna, like, overbuy right now. Like so I actually am able I'm setting up this year, which is awesome because everybody who knows me knows what happened last year. Right?

But I have my own did the national did, and credit to them. They took a lot of feedback from people about the show last year, and they wanted to get some new dealers involved with the show. So they're doing a separate room this year.

I don't know exactly where it is in relation to the main room, but I for me, I they could put me in a closet. I don't care. I'm just happy I can set up, and I can have my name on it, and I can promote it.

Kevin Randall, the captain thirty seven sports cards has an eight foot table. So there's not booths. This is a room of seventy five eight foot tables of all new dealers, which is cool.

So I'll be there in that room, promoting the hell out of myself and my stuff and, all the normal lives before the show of all the inventory and stuff will be coming.

I'm super excited for that. They don't gotta kinda lurk in the shadows now and try to, like, set up through somebody else. I can I'm doing my own thing, which is awesome. Right? So there's definitely preliminary plans for that.

I'm driving out there from the Boston area. Obviously, it's a hike fourteen, fifteen hours. My buddy, Jay, j b thirteen rips will be will be driving out there. So the the for me, I wanna buy right now as much as possible.

It's tougher, obviously, because the repack game has made it tougher. Right? But, even if I have to buy a card at 95%, that's a good card. I'm doing it because I wanna have it in my showcase for these bigger shows.

So I wanna buy some more high end cards. Like, prime example, I'd literally sit right next to my desk. I went live last night and showed it off, but I just picked up a PSA nine, Jordan with a six flare.

Is that your first time with a nine? First time with a nine, man. First time with a nine. I'm I'm spending I'm I'm I'm gonna spend some time with it before I let it go.

But, it's a nice copy too. Nice center. Because, I mean, those cards, you get that high end. You see the price variations with just the based on the centering of Yes. The the card. Right?

And this thing is gorgeous, like, really nice looking copy. But, like, I wanna buy some super high end cards. So that that part of my goal this weekend, the the show I'm gonna be going at is it's definitely got a heavy vintage base.

Unfortunately, it's a lot of 70 year old plus people who set up and price their stuff at a hundred and 50 percent comps, and they're tough to negotiate with.

But, like, I'm gonna go in this week, and I want, like, a Koufax rookie, Clemente rookie. I wanna get some Jackie Robinson, but I gotta overpay for it.

I will just to have it in the showcase. Right? Because I'm also a big believer, from a dealer standpoint that alright. If you want certain guys, you gotta have them in your showcase so people know you're going after them.

So, like, right now, like, I don't have any jacket. It's bothering me emotionally. I have one jacket, but I haven't put it out in, like, a year because I love the card so much.

Right? But it's like, you know, it's like, I put it in the bag to take and then I pull it out. Like, I don't know. You know? Like, I wanna pick up some jacket.

I want people to know I I I collect jacket. I want jacket in the showcase. Right? That'd be like, you know, if you if you're buying actually buying Patrick Mahomes, you got no Mahomes card in your showcase.

Like, you know, a lot of times you got we we talked about this a lot on this podcast, and I've talked about it in my lives.

You know, there's a lot of socially, you know, introverted people in in the hobby. Right? And then they they wanna see something in your showcase to start a conversation.

Right? So if somebody's walking around with a card, a a big Mahomes, for example, and they don't see anything like that in your showcase, they're gonna walk by.

Right? They see some, oh, hey. That's a nice card. I have this, and that can start a conversation.

That's why I always say price your damn cards. Right? Like, if you're somebody who's uncomfortable in big settings or, talking to people in general and, you know, you have to do more work to find out about a card.

You're probably gonna walk away. Right? So I think that's a big part of it too. So, like, I'm going to this weekend.

We'll have a big chunk of change with me. I wanna buy, I have specific targets. And, you know, when it comes down to if I gotta overpay a little bit to get one of those targets, I'm perfectly fine doing that.

And I think that's where, the young flipper game, they don't do that. You know what I mean? Like, they if I if I can't get into it for 84. 375%, then I can't buy the car. That's not how it should be, man.

Like, it's it's you know, that's where very different mindset from, you know, me, 40 year old dad, doing this versus the 20 year old flipper slash repacker, who's just doing it to get stuff on whatnot and do this and not worried about what they have in their showcase.

I'm much more, I I I care a lot more about what I have in my showcases versus the average, young game flipper, so to speak. The the the many flavors of the hobby, all playing out in real time.

Before we let you go, Kevin, maybe share some perspective, with anyone who's out there listening right now, who's going to shows in their neck of the woods, like, what would you say to those individuals based on current market conditions, what you're seeing, at the shows you're going to?

So first of all, know what you want going into a show. Right? Because what can happen is and and I've had it happen to friends who I've talked about it with them.

You can go into a show, and if you don't see what you want, you almost feel you you have this money burning a freaking hole in your pocket.

We've all been there. Right? It's like if I don't leave here with something, like, it's like the Denzel meme.

I'm I'm leaving here with something. Right? Right? Like, it's like, I have to leave here with someone. Otherwise, this is a waste of trip. Right? It's okay to leave a car show with nothing, first of all.

Right? Have some specific wants and have a budget for yourself. Right? And what I would say is as you start going to bigger shows, like, you know, a bigger three day show, and there's been a bunch of them around.

And as you go to, like, a fanatics festival in Nashville, right, whatever your budget is, chances are you're gonna find a card that you want that's over your budget. So have that trade ammo with you.

Right? Because then you can increase your budget and increase it through not cash, but through with cards. Right? So I always tell people, especially as we get to these bigger shows, like, you know, do a little PC purge yourself.

Like, you know, pick out your top 10 cards that are irreplaceable, that you're not gonna move, and then, like, even if that number fifteen, sixteen, you don't think you'll move, like, what if you see something that could be in your top 10, right, and you could use that with cash to get it.

Right? So I think knowing what you want going to a show is huge, so you don't get caught leaving a show spending your money when you're like, I don't even like this card anymore. Right? You just spent it to spend it. Right?

And then having a budget obviously is important, not just in card shows, but in life. Right? But also if you bring some trade ammo to, quote, unquote, increase your budget without spending more cash, I think that's really important.

So that'd be my advice to people at this point. So, and as we as I start to go to these bigger shows, I'm hoping to start seeing some better, more unique cards because really, you know, talk about this right now.

The shows right now, it's all, you know, young quarterbacks. It's all modern baseball, Pokemon everywhere.

It's like it's tough to I haven't I'll be honest with you. I I haven't walked a show in in in a while. No. It's I usually set up and take a walk, but, like, you hear about what's in the room from people.

It's like, alright. I'm just gonna stay behind my booth. What's the point? Right? So, hopefully, as we get into these bigger shows, throughout the year, we start seeing some different stuff and some better stuff.

That's what I'm looking forward to. Let everybody know where you're gonna be at this weekend one more time just in case people are in your area?

Yeah. So I will be at in Wilmington, Mass this weekend for three days, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, at the Lucky Card Show show. It's at Shriners Auditorium. I'll be set up, my friend Chris distress cards.

I think its table is 9798. We haven't got confirmation on that yet, but as soon as I have it, I'll put it on IG. And then after that, the weekend after, there's a new show at Holy Cross College, which is or University of Holy Cross.

I don't I'm definitely screwing that up, but my wife's downstairs probably disgusted because she's or was it's in Worcester, Mass, and she works in Worcester.

But, new show there, which is awesome. It's put on by the flipping card show, by Jeff, who runs the flipping card show in Wooten that I set up at. And then from there, it's a lot of local shows until June where it's Mohegan Sun.

It's, indie, the Midwest Monster. It's Fanatics Fest. Like, literally, back to back to back weekends. It's Midwest Monster, Fanatics Fest, or Mohegan Sun and then Fanatics Fest. And before you know it, man, we're in Chicago.

So, I've just you know, I'm so excited to have these shows start picking up and start getting some of these bigger shows, you know, towards all about the, the adrenaline rush of being at a show.

It's it's still very much there, which tells me I'm doing what I wanna do and doing what I love.

So You can follow him at the captain thirty seven. We'll definitely do this again before national time. Kevin, always appreciate it, man. Thank you. Alright, man. Thanks again.