Welcome back to Stacking Slabs. This is your Hobby Content alternative.

I'm your host, Brett. Collector conversation coming at you. Today's guest, Ben at Nonsense Name Cards came on the podcast about a year ago, and he talked about collecting the first cardboard of culturally and significant people.

I wanted to have him back nearly a year later to go through a list of cards in his collection and talk through history.

Talk about the cards. Talk about the people. Talk about why they matter. This isn't a conversation you have ever heard before. This was all new to me. Going through the history, going through cards, we're talking about pre war cards.

This is just an unbelievable collection, and Ben curates his collection here on this episode and gives a ton of detail. You're not gonna wanna miss this. This is for you, the card nerds out there.

I promise you're gonna love it. If you wanna show your support for Stacking Slabs, make sure you hit the follow button, leave a review, give me that five star if I'm doing a good job. Tell a damn friend.

Do all those things. Head on over to the Patreon group. Link is in the show notes. New and exclusive content each and every day. We've got Ben nonsense name cards coming at you. Alright. Excited to be back with another conversation.

We last time I spoke with today's guest, I don't know if he realizes this, but it was almost exactly a year ago. So it we are doing a return episode, and I'm joined by Ben at nonsense name cards on Instagram.

Last time we spoke, the topic was collecting the first cardboard of culturally insignificant people. Today, we're going to revisit that and maybe dive a little deeper on his collection.

I have been thinking a lot about, non sport, and there's gonna be some sport in here, but non sport cards and, just trying to evaluate, what's out there and, just the different types of cards that we can collect.

But without further ado, Ben, welcome back, man. How are you?

I'm great. Yeah. Thanks for having me. And, yeah, it's a fun topic. So I'm I'm excited that you're excited to delve into a little bit more. Yeah. So we have a ton of cards to dig into, but I wanna maybe set the stage for this.

And we could have talked about this last time, but maybe, like, revisiting it. This lane of collecting and specifically, like, you sent me, I don't know, 20 something cards, files, and I was digging through them last night.

And I'm just not sure that I've seen a collection of cards ever, like, curated this way, which, it gets me excited, and I'm really pumped to dive into it.

But maybe, like, share, like, what what inspired you to pursue this lane of collecting based on all of your other interest in things that you like to collect?

Yeah. Well, so I've always been, you know, a student of history and interested in that just from reading and college and and that standpoint and stuff. So it's I've been inherently interested in the subjects.

I think it really started from the collection standpoint is, you know, about ten years ago, I started to delve more into kinda pre war sports cards and in doing that, I realized that there was just as much if not more actually kinda non sports from the period.

You know, there were so many of these weird sets that tobacco companies or caramel companies or retailers made, and, sporting figures were just a small part of that.

They made it for actors and historical figures and journalists, politicians, just everybody from those times. So as I delved in there, it became a little bit of a a research project.

There's a really good files on Net 54, kind of the message board that really delved into a lot of non sports stuff as well as non big four sports, kind of Olympians or different things like that.

So just the the research side of it was interesting. And then, you know, the more that I looked at it, just realizing, like, how incredibly scarce a lot of them were.

And so then it became a bit of a chase of, like, hey. If there's only six of these that have ever been graded, like, will one pop up? But if it does, it'd be fun to get it, and most of them are very, very reasonable.

You know, even now, a lot of this stuff's very reasonable. So kind of all those things just made it an interesting lane to pursue that was, you know, it wasn't like I could just go out and buy them all.

That wouldn't have been as fun. And it was something where I can continue to learn about it and, research.

And and then there was a bit of the wait and and see and see if stuff popped up. And so all those things just kind of convalesced together. Yeah. So I know you're a big nineties collector.

And, like, I think about nineties cards and I think about Instagram and I just you know, there's a I think about weekly auctions. There's there's a community around those cards. There are people that are building sets.

You can it's very public, present, people posting their pickups, cards, nineties collectors interacting with each other. With this other side of your collecting, you mentioned a message board, which I'm unfamiliar with.

But I'm curious, like, are there other people out there doing something similar or adjacent? And what what is it like maybe connecting with those types of collectors as opposed to maybe some of the other lanes you collect in?

Yeah. I mean, there are tons of people significantly more knowledgeable and experienced in all these things than I am.

You know, before Instagram kind of became as big, so the blowout card forums and then, Net 54, which is a more vintage based site, were the two big kinda message boards where there was cars.

And the thing that was really nice about those is it was searchable, right, and the stuff stayed there forever.

So somebody could have had a conversation in 2013 about a particular card, but if I went on there and searched for stuff about Muhammad Ali or or different people, I could find those conversations very easily, which, you know, I feel like is not the case for Instagram.

Might be a little bit of user error, but I I have a difficult time finding particular cards. And then there's also not the same discussion, right?

Like the comments are there, but a lot of times it's sick card bro and fire emojis, right, as opposed to, like, additional context or thoughts or or additional cards to be aware of and stuff.

So I have been a bit remiss in not using it as much recently. I just kinda got out of the habit, but, it's still there.

It's still stuff you can look at, and people people still use those. It's a fun resource for research. You've mentioned research several times, and we're gonna dive into the cards.

But as a someone who's sharing your cards and sharing the the why and and as a collector who's consuming cards of other people in the why, like, how important to you is the the feeling or the context or the the copy that people post alongside the cards that they're sharing with the rest of the community?

I mean, I I enjoy it. Like, I I enjoy when people can inform me when I'm reading their posts.

I think something that I've tried to do for the last couple of years, if you look at my feed as I go back and forth where I'll do one nineties card that people like and are impressed by, and then the next one, I'll do some historical card that will get 13 like on a conference on.

But I I enjoy doing that, right? I kinda do that more for myself, but I'm trying to kinda force feed that idea and, like, hey, have some vegetables with your p and g greens.

And so, yeah, I I I like that, and I I take a lot of time with the write ups and kinda the research and how do I wanna present it and, you know, I I I think that's a big part of it and I and I appreciate other people that do the same whether it's with nineties inserts or whether it's with older cards or whether it's with, like, why particular card resonated with them.

Like, I I'm a big fan of that. I I always read I always read the caption. I don't just scroll through and look at the pictures.

So I wasn't anticipating, Ben to do a bunch of homework, but I think Ben did a bunch of homework by preparing all of these cards in his collection to be discussed that we're going to talk about. So let's, let's just dive into it.

And for anyone who's in the Patreon group, I'll be sharing the cards on the screen. If you are not, if you're listening to this via audio, we'll try to do our best to describe, the cards, so you know what we're talking about.

But let's just get into it. We've got several cards to go. The first card is the N2 Allen and Ginter Geronimo American Indian Chiefs. This is a PSA one. Ben, talk to us about Geronimo, this card.

I know Allen and Ginter is a beloved brand, by collector. So let's just launch off into this Geronimo card. Yeah. So this card's from 1888, which, you know, is almost a hundred and 40 years ago, which is crazy.

You know, like I said, I was always a student of history growing up. I loved kind of the West, right? And cowboys and Indians and those sorts of stories and struggles and stuff.

And, you know, Geronimo was really the last Native American chief who kinda continued that, consistently time after time. And so just kind of that resoluteness and and kind of his story, had always stuck with me.

And then to find a card like this, it it's, yeah, I just found it interesting. What about just with it's you know, in The United States, there's just such a complicated history around, Native Americans in this country.

What like, when you owning a piece of card like this that's reflecting back to Geronimo and such a key figure, like, how how do you reflect on just, like, the history behind the history and then mapping it to, you know, a card like this?

Yeah. I think one of the things that I find interesting about this card is, like I said, it's from 1888. You know, Jeronimo's last rebellion was in 1886. Right? And then wounded me was in 1890.

So this card was made while there were still those battles going on and it's kind of interesting to me to think this is someone who like officially was fighting the US government and rebelling and trying to kill Americans but to make a part of him seemed to suggest that there was still a certain level of admiration kind of for what he was represented and kind of his struggles.

So I think I've always found that interesting that even, you know, in the midst of that, it was somebody that they put on a card next to baseball players and and other kind of, you know, famous people that you would think would be more admired at the time.

The next card that we're going to show is the 1987 Allen and Ginter, W. F. Cody, just Buffalo Bill. Buffalo Bill is a polarizing figure in American Fair folklore.

How do you think about collecting someone in both, mythical and the con that has mythical and controversial, layers to him. Yeah. I think, like, that actually makes me more interested in him or someone like that.

I think that, like, that to me is kinda a reflection of history of how someone like this you know, when I was growing up, he was kind of more of a a hero, right? Like somebody that people talk about as like a a figure.

He was a scout. He, you know, hunted for the army and, then kinda ran his wet wild west show and stuff. And as time has gone on, people have, you know, to your point, kind of reflected on his impact and some of the things he did.

And, to me, that makes him more interesting, right? Because that's what history is. It's kind of an evolving understanding of someone.

And at the same time, they can be impressive, but also maybe not somebody that you'd want to emulate or somebody who societal norms now understands, you know, had other impacts, whether it's ecological or or things like that.

So, yeah, I think that's that's natural, I think, with with kind of how we evolve our understanding and kind of our our nuanced views of people throughout history and how that changes over time.

So this card, do you do you treat it more as a historical document or a hobby artifact since, you know, the based on just the time stamp of it?

You know, I think it can be both. I think for me, like, this card is it's more of a card. You know, I've got it as a card.

I think the prior card, I think because the discussion we had about where it fit in within history itself, maybe is is more of kind of a historical document that would be interesting. But, yeah, I I think that they can be both.

Right? They can be a representation of the the norms of the time and the standards, and they can also be a card that I can collect and put in a box. Amazing. Okay. So in terms of the workflow of this, I'm I'm thinking of this.

This is what we're gonna I'm gonna have you do. I'm gonna have you you call out the the card. And then while you're calling out the card, I'll I'll do the work in the background to share, display it. That might be the easiest.

So you've got the same list as me. Right, Ben? I do. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll go through with the order that you had. So the next part we had on there was the nineteen o eight, Felix Poten, Franzford. Felix Poten was a French retailer.

It was kind of like the Sears Roebuck of France, and they produced cards. And so this one was a Franz Ferdinand who was the crown prince of Austria, Hungary, and Austria Hungary, and he's best known, unfortunately.

He was his assassination led to world war, and so that's the card that we're looking at that here. Okay. So you've got the catalyst of the world World War one, which is certainly significant. Obviously, a key historical figure.

What is like with a card like this, what is the story of you not only knowing that it exists, but then also tracing it back to the history and knowing that this is a card that you have to have in your collection.

Like, talk us through that. Yeah. So I I looked I got this card in 2018, and I looked it up. I don't know how I would have found it originally. It was on eBay.

But what I do know is it's the only one that's ever been created. Right? So whether I had a search for it or or how I came across it, you know, when I see something like that, like, this is a person who's historically significant.

It's the only graded copy with PSA or with SGC. So it was like, you know, a chance to go get it. I think it was $55.

27 including tax in in shipping. So, you know, it wasn't expensive either. It maybe it was a a buy it now actually as I'm thinking about kind of that math. But just coming across it, that's the thing that's just exciting to me.

This is somebody who's everybody knows from that and was so historical, significant, and that started World War I, which basically led to World War II and you know, just, all of that was interesting.

And then once I got it, I kind of researched some more. I actually had posted this one, and Ferdinand was like a huge hunter as well.

Like, he documented 275,000 kills, which seems excessive, but that was his hobby. I guess we we like art. He he likes you and stuff. And he had, you know, a hundred thousand trophies in his palace and stuff.

So he caused a lot of problems in his life, you know, both for animals and humans, it seems like. But, yeah, it was just a fun, different car that was so rare. It just seemed like something that that made sense to to jump on.

So I think about just, like, how challenging it is on the understanding that even if, like, in one category, all the sets, all the years, and all of them may be, you know, manufactured in The United States.

And then I think it, you know, becomes even more complicated if you're looking for cards that, you know, maybe were manufactured in different places.

You, around the world, you mentioned you love the research, portion of it. How does it differ when you're, like, researching a set that is maybe not US based but might be in Europe or another part of the world?

Yeah. I think, like I said earlier, like, one thing I discovered is there are so many of these sets, right, for soccer players, for different things like that.

You know, there's some good resources that I'd mentioned there. There's some sellers as well.

So Mark, uncommon curator, is a seller, who sets up at the National. I met him in Cleveland in 2018, and this is kind of his specialty. Like, he really specializes in European issues, a lot of pre war stuff.

So over the years, I've gotten a lot of stuff from him and just learned a lot from him. But a lot of it just comes down to, like, you find one and then, you know, you can Google, like, who's Felix Potent? What's that? Oh, that's this.

Right? And then you start to go down these these paths, and then the trick becomes, like, okay, is this the person's first card? Right? Or is it just because there's a lot of a lot of these guys were made time and time again.

And so it's, for me, a way to limit myself is to really try to focus on the earliest thing of somebody. Otherwise, maybe I end up with 17 different cards of somebody when that's there's no place to stop.

So one of the guardrails I put on myself is that. And so then it's a matter of maybe looking in the PSA POP report and just searching for a name and seeing the first time that shows up.

You know, vintagecardprices. com, v c p, which was kinda Card Ladder before Card Ladder, is also a really good resource. They have a similar search function where you can search by by person or by set.

They will send you alerts also. Like, I still get alerts, and it's universal alerts. It's all the auction houses. It's all it's eBay. It's it's all those things.

And so that's really good for pre war stuff as well. So it's it's a matter of, like, you find something and then it's you just have to keep digging and keep going down that rabbit hole and you'll you'll find other stuff.

And, I've tried to get better about making notes and kind of doing that because in the beginning, it's like, oh, I remember that and then so she doesn't care. And so then he's end up repeating stuff or forgetting things.

But yeah. So it's a process, but I I enjoy it. Alright. The the next card, I'm sure, when we say the name, will be familiar to the individual card itself. But why don't you get into that while I pull it up then?

Yeah. So the next card is, card of Albert Einstein from 1928. He actually has an earlier card. I think it might make '21 or '22. I think there's only, like, two or three total in the in all the pop reports combined.

So I haven't given up hope on finding one of those, but, I, you know, got this one in the in the interim. This is, like, generally considered his first major issue card.

And yeah. So this was one that it's not quite as rare. I think there's probably, like, a hundred copies universally, and more have come out, I think, as people have discovered this card.

This is a pretty popular card even for non non non sports collectors. And so it's it's one that you'd see coming. Actually, one sold on Sunday in in fanatics, as as well.

Thinking about this Einstein card, and I'm just looking at the grade PSA four, you said maybe there's approximately a hundred. When you're pursuing a card like this, how much does, like, grade factor into it?

And I'm sure it varies probably by card, but, like, with this card specifically, like, obviously, a PSA four and a 1928 card, I I would imagine is pretty good, based on the time frame.

But, like, how do you think about just, like, the grading of it all when you're making these kind of buys? Yeah. I think for, like, the pre war stuff, like, I look at what people call high appeal.

Right? And that's, like, a pretty popular term recently. Like, I know there's a new company, I think, searching on that, by appeal. The Maddie sees that a lot of stuff on that.

And, I know Jeremy Lee talks a lot about that. Like, for me, what that means is, like, what's the first thing I notice when I look at the part? And so if I look at it, I think, woah, that's sharp. Or, like, oh, that's that looks good.

Then cool. I'm good with it. Right? Whether that's a two or an eight or or whatever it is. If the first thing I look at is I think like, oh, that's like really real well centered even though it's beat up.

Like, that looks appropriate. Like, I can be fine with that too. Like, if first thing I think is like, woah, that card is has bad registration and it's off center, then I I wouldn't like it.

Right? Like, that's I just know myself and I've known enough over the years that, like, if I buy something that when I look at it, I think, like, I'm eventually gonna end up getting rid of that.

So for me, the numerical grade is less important of, like, what's the first thing I notice?

How do I feel when I look at that card? And I think the fun thing about, like, pre war stuff is, like, you know, it can have like, my Gaudi Baber Boost have very rounded corners, but to me, that looks appropriate.

Right? Like, that's how a card that's a hundred years old should look. And so I don't mind that at all. And so it it opens it up because the gray, a lot of times, is less important than just finding the card itself. Right?

And then finding one that just resonates with you and that makes you feel like it's of the time, it's of the era, and looks the way that, like, it has a lived history of somebody's, you know, used it, collected it, put it in a box, put it in their smokes, whatever that meant at that time.

To me, that's part of the history of the card and part of the fun. This card is 97 years old. And I look at this card, and you take the slab away and just I found focusing on the card. There's there's no way that I think it's that old.

Not because it's Einstein, but just based on the I can tell, and I'm looking at this card through a computer screen, but it just looks like there's coloring around it and it looks, pretty well put together.

So I think that speaks to the eye appeal of it all. But, like, when you saw this, copy of this card, maybe what stood out to you, in terms of just the make of it that made you feel compelled to to purchase it?

Well, so in addition to, like, it being the first, which is, like, kind of the criteria, I just said, like, the image to me is really interesting.

Right? Like, he he's looking to the side. There's, like, a little bit of forlornness there, which I kinda think foretells maybe the next, you know, ten to twenty years of his life.

This is a couple years before he he was forced to leave Germany or Austria. You know, he spent ten years basically before he became a citizen in The US where he was kind of stateless.

You know, he worked in a field that led to the atomic bomb and something he was very concerned about. So it just it seems very fitting that he seems so kind of somber and dour as opposed to, like, vibrant and excited.

But that's always just struck me about this card. And yeah. Awesome. Alright. Let's move on to the next one. Yeah. So the next one is, well, it says 1926 Charles Lindbergh. It actually references an event in 1927.

So TSA got that one wrong, I guess. It's not not that. And so yeah. And so there you see it on the screen. Maybe talk a little bit about the the hand cut of it all. Like, what's your like, how do you think about hand cut cards?

Like, what are you looking for when you're buying a hand cut issue? Yeah. Shed some light there. Yeah. I think, like, objectively, like, a lot of hand cut cards are kinda cheesy looking. They're usually hand drawn.

Like, I I have a number of the Babe Ruth ones from the nineteen twenties, and it always looks goofy and pudgy and just not it's not as sharp and crisp. At the same time, in the nineteen twenties, there wasn't a lot else.

And so to me, they're they're of a particular era in the hobby. Like in the 1920s, hand cuts and exhibits, which we'll kind of talk about later, were really the two major ways to collect out there.

And so, you know, I'm glad that we got away from them. I'm glad that they weren't they didn't continue on.

But they are interesting to me because, like, if somebody wanted to have the first card of certain people, of Jack Dempsey, of different people from the nineteen twenties, this was their option.

Right? And so I think that's interesting of just how the hobbies evolved and how it almost it almost went backwards. Right? Like there were tobacco cards, caramel cards, and then, you know, for much of the twenties, like that went away.

And and there was only exhibits and then kind of weird hand cut stuff. And then it came back again right in the thirties. I I just think that's part of the history of the hobby, so I find it interesting in that way.

So you obviously do, like, research leading up into these purchases, not only on the subject, but, you know, the card itself. Do you find once you acquire a card like, we we just got through five.

Like, do you go through and try to dig in and have a desire to learn more, in your than you maybe are thinking about, like, these cultural figures in comparison with each other.

Or is it just, like, once you've got the you you've done the research, it stops, you get the card, and then you kinda file it away, and it's on to the next one.

Like, what's how do you, like, process this? Yeah. Usually, I find myself doing more, after I get it, and especially if it's something that I think is interesting and that I wanna post, then I will do a lot more.

But there are you know, in because there are instances where also then I'll get it, do some, put it away, and then I'll come back to it, right, years later, kinda going through stuff and kinda revisit some of that stuff.

But, yeah, once I have the card, like, I'm I'm more inherently interested in the subject. Yep. Awesome. Let's move on to the next one. Yeah. Next card is also it's another pilot. Right?

So it's a 1934 Skybirds Amelia Earhart. And this is a, you know, this is a hand drawn set that I think is is really interesting. Like, the all of the characters, it's you know, you could almost see it being framed as a work of art.

Right? Like, it's it's got a certain style and aesthetic to all the different cards from from this set in this area and the national chiclet cards that I think is interesting. Obviously, a a female, here on this card.

How how do you think about, just history representation, whether it's, you know, gender, nationality, race? Like, how do you think about that when you're building out a collection as unique as this?

Yeah. I mean, that's a a huge part of history. Right? It is kind of representation and the different struggles or advances or achievements that different groups have had, so it's a big part of it.

You know, one of the favorite interviews you've ever done was, I think, the Giant Legends. I think that's your name. It's so funny.

It's so funny you brought her up. I was recording an episode, today of the WNBA card podcast, and, she she was refeatured, in that recording today that'll go out, tomorrow if you're listening to this on the day it goes out.

So it's just ironic that you brought her name up. Yeah. It's funny because I I discovered her through your interview with her. I mean, that was probably five years ago almost at this point.

But just, yeah, learning from people like that and having very focused curated collections and and historical understandings of females or different groups is very interesting.

So, yeah, it's it's a huge part of it, and and part of why I wanted to include this to make sure that we got better female as well. So this is the Skybird set.

It's it's I love the look of this. This is, like, super cool, and I love how Earhart is displayed on this card. It with a like, what else is included in a set like this? Like, what else would be on on this this sort of checklist?

So, you know, it's pilots and planes mainly, which, you know, is to me is interesting because it's like, at that time, aeronautics and flying was new enough that, like, oh, oh, we're gonna make cards of Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth and then these people that can fly in the sky.

Right? Like, we take it for granted now. But, you know, it being so new and cool, like, you could see at the time, like, a a nine year old being like, oh, that's awesome.

This person can fly. Right? Just like, oh, it's awesome. This person can hit a home run. And that's just like, you know, my neighbor back here is a pilot for Alaska.

My sister-in-law has her pilot's license. Like, nobody makes cards with them. Right? But at the time, ninety years ago, like, it it it's interesting and kinda cool to me when you step back and think like, oh, yeah.

These people were heroes just like athletes or movie stars, just by being able to to fly planes. Right? That's incredible. I recall the last time we spoke, this figure was brought up in our conversation.

Pulling up the screen right now. All right. Let's talk about the next card here. Yeah. So this is a Gandhi card, and very similar to some of the other cards.

It's like the Franz Ferdinand. Once I saw it just to think, Woah, this person has a card. I never would have thought of that. There's people that you don't connect as adding cards. Right?

You think of them as historical figures first and, like, even a card theme like ourselves often wouldn't then think, like, I wonder if they have a card, just because of their manner or their demeanor or kind of their important and their focus.

But, this was a card that I had come across and, in an auction I think it might have been it was like I think it might have been Love the Game or, like, one of the the auction houses that focuses a little more on, you know, some of these lesser known sports or things like that.

I think I should have another one here. But yeah, so that was a card that once I saw Yeah, this is actually one that I found raw and graded myself.

Okay. Which got a three five. But, yeah, it's a card that I I've just always loved because it seems almost silly, right, that there there's a card of of Gandhi, but at the same time, very cool.

So with this instance, it's almost like you weren't even thinking about a Gandhi card. You just saw a Gandhi card on a marketplace, and that inspired you to be like, this is a perfect card for my collection.

Is that how it went? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So are you scanning, like, because this I mean, I I I'm thinking about, like, the the spider web of everything possibly that you could collect that falls under this type of collection.

Because there's this, like, unearthing of something new that you don't know about, are you regularly, like, checking all of the auctions to make sure there's something that you're not missing that you need?

Yeah. I mean, the easiest ones, like so the kind of original established auction houses, if you bid in their auctions, like, even if you don't win, they'll start sending you catalogs. Mhmm.

And, you know, for myself, like, I find it much easier I mean, maybe I'm just tactile or old or whatever, but, like, to actually, like, flip through, and and read there, like, I I enjoy that more than you know, I I work on a computer screen.

I don't need to spend Yeah. Time looking at a computer screen. Right? So they send these big catalogs, and it's very fun to kinda go through and see them.

And there's usually more descriptions online of a lot of the cards, so I can kinda go through and add pages of stuff that's kind of interesting and then I'll go research and see what they say about that online and stuff.

But I always kinda do that just as a way to see what's out there.

And there's you know, their descriptions of cards, you know, they're they're trying to entice you. Right? They're trying to educate people and tell you why something's significant.

So even stuff that I don't bid on that's kind of out of my league or not my lane, like, it still can be very interesting to read about some of these things and understand that there are people that pay 6 figures for cabinet inserts and different things like that from the 1890s and Cincinnati Red Stockings, the first baseball.

There's all these different things that you can learn about just by looking through those and and reading stuff that strikes your fancy.

So the next card is of a US president. And I'll I'll tell you what, Ben. I'll never forget when my dad we were having a conversation. I remember it. I don't know what what the time of my life was. I was younger, maybe high school.

Mhmm. And I'll never forget my dad being like, well, you know he was in movies, right? And I was like, what? Yeah. And going back and seeing Ronald Reagan in film, it was like a mind blowing experience for me.

So, I let the cat out of the bag. We're talking about Ronald Reagan, but, why don't you share what the card is? Yeah. So this is a 1939 Bridgewater Ronald Reagan. Bridgewater is a set that had a lot of actors.

There's a Bob Hope card from the set. There's a there's a number of other ones that are interesting. This is, as far as I can tell, Ronald Reagan's first card. He also has a cigarette card. It's actually almost like a cigarette case.

These are cut out different ways. This is the complete one. Usually, people will have just the card itself from 1947. So you'll see people list that one a lot as his first card, but this one was actually earlier.

And yeah. So that was what drew me to this. It's, I think, a total pop of 45, so it's pretty rare, I mean, across all the the different grading companies.

But, yeah, it's it's a a fun card of somebody who, like you said, had a completely new career before becoming a politician. Right? Like, this is the first president that I remember.

And, you know, be twenty five years before he even became a governor, he had done this. And the other thing that I've always thought's interesting about Reagan is he was actually a baseball broadcaster.

The way that he would broadcast is, I think it was Cubs games, he would get the wire report of what was happening and then he would announce it to some radio station in Iowa as if he was there watching it.

He'd get a report of whoever rounded up to seconds and then he would recreate that play and and talk through it and and make it seem like he was actually watching it happen, and announcing a game that he was just basically getting, you know, kind of the gameplay ESPN scroll from, but he would he would announce that.

So he had a history in sports as well as, before he moved to Hollywood.

So I know you prioritize, like, the first card, with a figure like Reagan who has had who had many different phases of popularity, do you find yourself, and maybe Reagan's just unique, but do you find yourself wanting to capture, you know The parallel I'm drawing here is like a player who spent maybe a majority of his time on one team and then moved to another team.

And so, generally, it feels like it's like another rookie card again. Do you is there do you find yourself wanting, like, a a presidential card of Reagan, or are you just satisfied that you've got this copy of him as the, film star?

No. I I like having him as a film star. The cards that I think are most interesting are people who, like, when the card was made, weren't as famous or weren't famous for what they eventually became famous for.

Right? That's just always, I think, really cool, like a card like this where it's like, oh, yeah.

This guy, you know, he's in some movies in Hollywood and and, you know, later would do some other stuff, but, like, he eventually became a governor and then a president, like, forty years later.

Like, that's, to me, much more interesting, and there's another card later which which is similar.

So, yeah, once I have kind of the original one, like, I don't feel the need for the other, and I think they're even more even more interesting when, like, the person got this would have been like, oh, okay.

Whatever. Like, I've never heard of this guy.

Right? Even though he would become the president. Right? Even though he becomes something else. Alright. We're we're going from Ronald Reagan to potentially one of the most popular IPs in all of collecting? Let's talk about Batman.

Yeah. So this is a 1966 Batman card number one. You know, I think I also could have included there's 1940 Gum Superman card, which is a very popular card there. But the character collecting has become a big thing.

The first appearance of people like this is something that's interesting. This is a card from someone of my generation, like the Batman movie that came out in 1989, I think, was the first superhero movie that at the time seemed cool.

I actually remember a friend trying to decide, like, should they go see Batman again or should they buy an 89 upper deck in Griffey, Jr?

Right? So that's, like, that's always, kind of stuck with me and kind of remember that. So, yeah. Most people, when they think about collecting Batman, probably go to the comic book side.

And with characters like this, I feel like they're getting it's getting more recognition on collecting character cards, but it maybe hasn't always been that way.

Do you think, like, there'll ever be the same demand as, a Batman, you know, first edition comic book in comparison to, like, a Batman first appearance on a card?

No. I I mean, I think, like, somebody that started in comic books, the comic book will probably always be E.

I think you're right that like these, the cards have become kind of a bigger thing. I'm not some of that feels like a little pumped, honestly.

Like I think I remember, like, during the pandemic, there was a lot of, like, oh, these are early Marvel ones, and they're gonna make a movie out of this guy, so this card's gonna go up. And, so there was some of that stuff.

I think you know, I I know with vFriends, like, Gary v has given a lot of interviews where he's talked a lot about his love for these cards, which is great. Like if people like stuff, they should like it.

But I I have a little bit of a hesitancy when it comes to some of these IP cards because it seems like a little bit of people are trying to front run popularity and and turn it into a bit of a pump and dump as opposed to just thinking like, this is a cool card to Franz Ferdinand or whatnot.

Right? So I love this thread, and I wanna pull on it a little bit because you obviously have a passion and interest in all the cards we've talked about in the collection that you're building.

And I would imagine there are times and maybe I'm just thinking about this from my own viewpoint as a collector, but this is stuff I don't see every day.

I don't see people post or talk about it. But you're in the background collecting these cards because you love history. You love researching. It means something to you.

And, you know, oftentimes, it's like, well, we we when we have cards, it's nice to see these other auctions go, and these cards sell for all time highs, and content being produced about these cards, and more people are interested in.

And you're sitting back in this power position where, like, I've always had these cards, and look at all all go up.

But what I heard from you right now, it's like, you know, it feels like sometimes some of this stuff is getting front run.

And it's not because, like, you're you're trying to go out and buy this 1966 Batman, and that's why you're maybe you don't think it's great.

You already have this card. So maybe, like, share a little perspective there. I think it's interesting that you have these cards, but you're still also being like, you know what?

Some of this stuff that's happening on the front end doesn't seem authentic. Yeah. I think, so, you know, ten years ago, like, I would've I bought a lot of, like, the Superman gum cards because it was $200.

And for me to think, like, it's $200 for a card that's 80 years old of one of the most historical, you know, kind of culturally significant things, that just seems weird and cheap, right?

Like, compared to what other stuff was. And so there was a time where, like, I bought those as an investment, right? It's like, this is just too cheap.

I gotta I don't want why would I buy something else when I could just have this and and put it away? And, you know, within the last two years, I I have kind of as I've consolidated another stuff, I've sold off all of those.

And part of it is because I just I'm not a fan of kind of seeing the market of, like, people trying to get ahead of the next IP, the next movie, the next Disney plus show, whatever that is.

It just seems like not as pure anymore to me. For a lot of people, it is. A lot of people really do like that stuff.

A lot of people do really collect that stuff. But, you know, there's plenty of other things for me to to focus on. So I still have a lot of the ones that are are still cheap and haven't kind of run up as much.

But, it is something that, like, I consider just as I'm as I watch that happen to particular cards or certain parts of the hobby, like, it can leave a little bit of distaste in my mouth sometimes for certain things, and then I don't like it as much.

Awesome. Moving over from Batman, to Colin Powell. Maybe talk about this card and talk about why it is a part of your collection.

Yeah. So this is the 1991 pro set Desert Storm set, and this was, like, the first set that I remember being, like, about historical stuff, right, as a kid. Like this was like very strange, right?

Like Prosette made football cards, right? And so then to have them have this entire set with figures around stuff that was happening at the time, like I just, like I didn't collect it at the time, but it was like, Oh, okay.

I guess there's a card of Norman Schwarzkopf. It just seemed kind of interesting. And so then, you know, as I went back, thinking about that made me interested in that.

And then Colin Powell obviously was like an interesting character. He was like Dwight Eisenhower in a sense and he was such a successful military figure and leader that both parties were like, Hey, run for president. Be one of us.

He held stuff close to the chest and stayed out of politics for a while and then ultimately did become secretary of state and kinda, you know, I think had a bad experience and was kind of thought of, you know, the run up to the Iraq war and and some of the things that happened there.

Like, not a tragic figure, but kind of, you know, not the last thing you probably want your legacy to be. So he's just always been an admirable, you know, American, who, you know, built himself up and did a lot of very important jobs.

And then this set, like I said, is just the first one that I thought of, like, that's weird. They're making a set of, like, something. You know? And it's not garbage pill kits. It's not made up stuff.

It's just, like, guys on a card. Right? I remember these packs growing up too. Did they do you remember did they come out, like, side by side with the, like, the football cards, or were they was it an independent release?

Like, did they I don't remember. Yeah. I don't remember how they came out. And I, I mean, I think Colin Powell had a a card in Bowman also, I think. Like, there's a card.

I think he'd thrown out the first pitch or something, and he's kind of in uniform and walking off the field, kind of waving. I remember that one. I seem to remember, like, these packs were almost like a camouflage wrapper.

Do you remember what was that? Yeah. I I I remember. And I don't I don't think yes. Definitely. I can't recall if, like, I went to, like, a a thrift store or some place recently and saw it.

Yeah. That visual is very strong in my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So next card, we're pulling up a Winston Churchill card, which, I don't know, we talking about history, feels like a guy that we have to talk about.

So the card. Yeah. So this is a nineteen o one Ogden Swinson Churchill. And I think we might have talked about this card when I was on last time.

This is probably my, like, favorite non sports card. And the reason that I like it, and this kinda goes back to the regular discussion is, you know, this card was when he was, like, 22 or 23 years old.

You know, this is forty years before World War two. This is when he was actually in the army and was also a journalist. Right?

Like, he was a light he was a pretty entrepreneurial guy, which is good because he also spent wasted tons of money. But, you know, he was he would write dispatches from India, from from South America, and so he kinda became famous.

I mean, he looks like a child in that picture. Right? Like, he's so young, and especially compared to kind of the jowly, bald Yeah.

Nineteen forty's cigar chomping version of him that most people are familiar with that, you know, when I found this card, I was just first amazed that he had a card this early. And then just, yeah, I thought it was was very cool.

Do you have a a rule, like, against like, it it feels like just in the way you're talking about it, it's like once figures, like, get political, you're kinda it's kinda you want the before story before they're, like, in office or, you know, the leader of, you know, whatever.

Is that something consciously you're you're trying to think about when you're building a collection? Or am I am I am I often just that assessment? No. I hadn't thought of it, but I think you might be right.

Yeah. I think that, like, to me, they're more interesting when it's like a it's a card of somebody that isn't fully developed yet. If they haven't developed their story, they haven't grown in this significantly.

I I think that that's always more interesting to me and maybe that's because they haven't become political yet or maybe it's just because, you know, I also bought Greg Greg Jeffries cards, right?

Like, maybe I'm prospecting. That's right. Political characters. But, yeah, I think you may be on to something there.

I did go to Greg Jeffries, but my I was thinking about the prospecting of it all, which is not something I was planning on doing. Yeah. The the next card is familiar because we talked about it, recently, with Jason at Contrarian Cards.

But you can't can't talk about, history without talking about Elvis. Right? Yeah. No. I I I really like this card because of the image, really. Right? I just think that, like, that's such a cool image.

Again, it's it's the first card on the set and, like, the one thing that I have learned over the years is, like, when you have sets of characters, usually card number one is the one that people gravitate to and and usually consider, like, the best one.

So while there might be a hundred cards in this set, this is the only one of them that that I have gotten. And yeah, I mean, I think, like, I'm not a fan of Elvis particularly.

Like, I don't really listen to his music. But, just, you know, for somebody who is, you know, so highly regarded in culture and in music and such a big part of kind of that era, it seems like a no brainer.

You have to have one of these if you like significant people. So we're going on a little bit of a music run, which is, right up my alley.

And I would say the next figure, maybe my favorite, the guy we've talked about yet. Let's talk about Jimi Hendrix. Sure. Yeah. So this is a 1968, Dutch. This is a cut card as well, I think, and it's pretty rare.

He has three cards from '68. He has this. He has a mister softy card, which was a set that I think they also made some basketball cards from and stuff. And then this is a really cool set.

It's the Panini Cantanti, which I think is Italian for, singer, which makes sense. But there's a lot of people in there. There's a James Brown, Aretha Franklin, early cards for a lot of different people in there.

And, you know, I think the way I think about these sorts of cards a lot of times is probably the only thing that is more impactful or more closely followed than sports is music. Right? Like, I'm actually personally not a huge music fan.

Like, I didn't grow an instrument play an instrument growing up or anything like that. But, you know, there are more people that follow musicians and love musicians than follow Aaron Judge and a lot of Aaron Judge.

Right? And they have worldwide appeals, and then they also have a direct correlation to culture, crossing over different cultures, and things like that.

So I I think it's a really, fun lane to look at when it comes to the different parts of, collecting people who have had an impact on our society.

I find it interesting because I think about the like, a a figure like Hendrickson, I think about just, like, pieces to remember.

And it's the easy thing to to do would be, you know, to make sure you you've got, like, a first edition of, you know, one of his albums, and you've got that. Isn't that's, like, the momentum?

And but I never really think about connecting a musical figure with sports card, which I think is, it it definitely has my wheels spinning, and it's probably a slippery slope, I can imagine, because I am a big music fan.

When you think about a guy like Hendrix and him making up your collection, like, when you hold this card, do you think about Hendrix from, like, like, the musical savant or genius perspective or the cultural disruptor perspective or a combination of both?

I personally probably think of the cultural side because, like I said, I'm not a great student of music.

That's not kind of my I don't have as deep of an understanding of that area, because of a lack of understanding, probably lack of appreciation that is deserved.

So for me, it's it's the cultural impact that that kinda resonates with me first and foremost. But I think for other people, it'd be the exact opposite, and I think we're both right.

Okay. So you can't talk about culturally important musicians, especially I'm an I'm a I'm a nineties kid, and there wasn't a bigger band than Nirvana.

So Nirvana does have we see all the kids out in the vintage t shirts these days that they're getting from Hot Topic.

But Nirvana does have cards, though. Talk for anyone who didn't realize that, which, I mean, you're you've got Dave Grohl on this card, Kurt Cobain.

I mean, it's just this amazing card. So talk talk about it. Yeah. No. It's funny because you see kids and dentists talking about Nirvana shirts left and right.

Right? But, yeah. So this is more of my generation. Right? Like, this is when I was in high school, kind of the the early years of alternative rock and whether that's Nirvana or Smashing Pumpkins or the different groups.

Like, this was was something that, like, I when I got my 10 for a dollar Columbia House membership, you know, you better believe that Nirvana was one of the ones that I got in there.

And then I I also think it's a a really striking image. Right? Like, it's he was very photogenic that he being Kurt Cobain and and this in particular has that just kind of with the the eyes and and kind of how how he presents himself.

It kinda really is on brand, I think. You collect nineties cards. You've got an awesome collection. Just in looking at this card, and I don't know why, but I feel like this is an interesting question to ask.

Kurt Cobain, obviously, like, there's a whole story there, phenomenon. I when I think a big nineties music guy, when I think of nineties artists like Kurt Cobain is like at the top in terms of magnitude and importance.

If you had to compare Kurt Cobain, just in your mind, what you think of Kurt Cobain and his story and legacy with any other, like, is there a sports figure of the nineties that you can when you think of Cobain, you would draw a connection to, or is that nonexistent in your mind?

I mean, I I think that they're different.

I think the first thing that my mind went to is someone that was maybe a little bit of a troubled tragic finger like Allen Iverson was actually the first person I thought of just because I know he's had some struggles and demons and fortunately, he's still alive and I think doing better now.

But I think kind of a similar like not wanting to conform to what society or the market might expect from someone in that particular role and really like actively rebelling against that expectation.

I think that both of them, also were similar in that that vein as well. I I love it, and I think that's somewhat ironic of why we're seeing so many Nirvana T shirts on, you know, kids these days, and they access to that.

And I'm like, I'm always asking myself, Kurt, really want want this to be happening right now?

Yeah. The the the king of don't sell out. Right? Like, that was kind of at the time, like, with Gen X and stuff, that was the thing. It's like, don't sell out.

And and so there's a little bit of an irony there of, like, some estate somewhere still getting money from from that legacy when that is probably not what he wanted to your point. There's no doubt about it. Alright.

Let's move over to some, sports figures here. We have Jesse Owens. Yeah. So I I sent you over a couple different people that kinda when I was thinking of culturally important, like, I think we all think of Jackie Robinson first. Mhmm.

And so, one thing that I've enjoyed is kind of finding other people similarly who were part of the civil rights struggle or historically significant, Americans, who are less either appreciated or known or just very inexpensive possibly to collect compared to Jack Robinson.

That's what this next section is.

Jesse Owens, obviously very significant figure in nineteen thirty six Olympics in Germany and what he was able to show, he said, let's show Hitler kind of the world as far as, his abilities and stuff was always, an interesting story to me.

I think this one and then, later there's a Joe Louis card.

The thing that I find interesting about those two is it was within a couple months of them, but I think it's, like, the first time where all Americans really rooted for African Americans and thought of them as Americans first.

And so I just think that that's very significant.

This is somebody who, like, up to that time, it wasn't necessarily you know, they might not have the thought of Americans first, but this was getting that transformation of people seeing people as fellow Americans.

And so I think he's significant in that vein. I love the the Jackie Robinson call out and, other key figures who, you know, were part of kind of the civil rights movement in The United States.

Do you do you find obviously, like Jackie is everywhere. I would say he's probably one of the most collectible, sports figures we have in all of the hobby, not so much on the Jesse Owens side.

Do you find that there's other collectors who I don't wanna say see an opportunity because I don't want to make this seem like money, but just, like, draw the same parallels as as you do as you kind of opened up and described why he's important to your collection?

Yeah. I think there are. I think that there are people that appreciate him as an athlete. I think they appreciate him as an American. I think the other thing, especially these prewar ones, is they're, they're pretty rare.

Right? So there's they're hard to find, but that also you know, if there's only 70 of them created, it only takes 80 people to want one to kind of make them more popular.

But this is a card that I think has sold, like, I think in an eight, it's sold above $20,000, which might be surprising that, like, a card people haven't even heard of has sold consistently above $20,000, because for that reason.

Right? Because I think it is something that people understand both as an athlete and as a historically significant figure. You There's a lot of different people with different interests that would be interested in a car like this.

Awesome. Let's move over to, Jack Johnson. Mhmm. Yeah. So Jack Johnson was the first African American heavyweight, and I think he's different in Joe Louis in that he was not accepted and popular at the time.

And then to the extent that he was more or less railroaded at particular times and, both career wise and and by law enforcement.

So, again, not the happiest story or reflection of our society a hundred plus years ago, but still significant because it was somebody that was competing in professional athletics, you know, forty, fifty years before Jackie Robinson played baseball.

He's also someone I think there have been a lot of rumors of, like, a movie.

I guess Sylvester Stallone supposedly has wanted to make a movie about him for for a decade plus. So he's somebody that is kinda well known, but maybe more well known at some point.

But yeah. These do you ever think about just, like, these cards and just how old they are and just the connection back to cigarettes and tobacco and just the way things were marketed back in this day?

Do you, like, do you get into those rabbit holes when you're, you know, researching cards like this?

Yeah. I do. And and so Jack Johnson, in particular, is one where I don't just kind of, limit myself to his first card because this card's pretty boring, frankly.

But he has some really beautiful other tobacco cards that kind of are I mean, they're they're drawn, but they're in action, right, of of different poses and and pushing poses and stuff.

And so, yeah, it is interesting to think of like the effort that went into of like, how are we gonna present this person so that we can sell more cancer sticks, right?

The next card is certainly a lot different than a bunch of the other stuff we're showing, and it's because it is the first card that highlights a non human.

So so, let's talk about it. What are we looking at here? Yeah. So I I meant to give you a heads up. But so there is you are correct in that the horse is prominent, but it's actually the jockey.

Okay. This is a jockey card. It's, which is the important part. So this is a card of Isaac Murphy, from 1890. And Isaac Murphy was the most successful jockey at the time. He still holds the record for, winning percentage.

He won three, you know, three different, times, and he he had a 44% winning percentage. And actually, the award now that's given to the jockey with most wins is called the Isaac Murphy Award.

But, again, this card is from 1890. At the time, horse racing was the most popular spectator sport in America. And Isaac Murphy was born into slavery. You know, his father died fighting for the Union Army.

And so it's just interesting to me that sixty years before Jackie Robinson, you know, the most successful jockey and the most successful sport was African American and had been born into slavery.

And it's just not a story that's super well known, really. Right? So when I learned that story and found this card, I just thought it was it was very interesting.

Definitely is and, something I know nothing about. So, definitely, I'm I'm taking notes on different things I gotta study up on after this. And you alluded to earlier the, Joe Lewis card you have, and that's what we're gonna show next.

So with this image on this card is an incredible. Like, this is I just this is one of my favorite photos we've seen so far. Yeah. Now this is a cool card. There's actually two different versions of this.

There's a number 32 and a number 56. This one, I believe, is the much one of them is much more rare than the other. There's only, like, maybe 50 of them graded, little pop report, but it's still not that expensive.

And you can probably get one of these for a hundred dollars. And so, again, Joe Louis, significant athlete, obviously, was, like, heavyweight champion, held their title longer than anyone else in history.

But also, you know, through his bouts with Max Schmeling was, you know, his first fight against the German Max Schmeling was a couple of months before the Summer Olympics.

So I I believe that Joe Louis was probably the first African American who the majority of Americans were rooting.

Worried. And so I've just always found that that interesting. He actually lost that match, but then won the rematch a couple of years later, knocked him out in the first round.

So now that it's kinda like Rocky, right? Like Rocky actually loses in the end of the first movie. People kinda forget that. It's kind of similar with this. Like, he actually lost that fight, but, it's still interesting.

And, you know, similar to Rocky, he came back and and and won later. The next we're gonna close it out with a slew of, Cassius Clay or Muhammad Ali, cards. The first card is a very young Ali here, our Cassius Clay.

Talk about, this card and just, why you like it. Yeah. So there are several different Cassius Clay cards that, like, when you get into it, people will say, oh, this is his true rookie.

Right? It's kind of like a a little bit of an argument amongst dorks, as far as like, what what what is a rookie card?

Right? And so I I kind of included some of those different ones just to kind of have that discussion, but I I appreciate all of them.

So this is generally considered his first card. It's from 1960. Hemet's journal was a Swedish magazine, and this is a hand cut card as well.

You'll see it's kinda like Sports Illustrated for kids. Like, it's a a sheet the size of a piece of paper with nine cards that people have cut out. So this is, like I said, generally considered as first card.

You know, this card is expensive, not in this grade because it's a one, but, you know, a a nine is sold for anywhere from 20 to $40,000 kinda depending on the market. There is one ten out there.

I'd be curious what that would sell for. I like the ones that we're gonna look at later better. A, because I'm not a huge fan of the image. He's it is very young, and I do think that's cool, but I I like some of the other ones better.

This card also, it kinda goes back to our earlier conversation. Like, this isn't a particularly rare card. There's, I think, probably, like, 450 in the PSA POP report.

And I just having watched over the years, like, a number of these came out, a number of them came out from the same seller. Like, I think somebody actually found a big there was a big find of this of the old, issues possibly.

And there's certain cards that, like, I feel like because people can get 30 of them, they have a motivation to make that card important.

Right? And if there's a card that's so rare that you can't you can get one of them, or maybe there's 30 of them total, that doesn't happen to them.

And, like, that's always been a bit of my pet peeve. Like, the other thing that I see this with is the the Nike Michael Jordan promo card, right, which is the jump man pose.

Awesome. But, you know, there's an earlier card they call the poster card that has the hole punch that you can use to kinda flip through. That card is, like, a thousand times rarer.

It's earlier, and it was before the poster card. And people will talk about how much they love the promo card, and, you know, Collectible used to have 40 about a 40 PSA graded, promo cards that you could buy fractional ownership of.

Right? There's barely 40 of the other card in existent graded, but there's just certain people, they always talk about that card as opposed to like stepping back, being a card that's earlier and a lot more rare.

And like when I see that, I kind of think, well, somebody probably has an incentive to make this the card, and I feel that a little way about this card. So we we're gonna we have three other clay cards to talk about.

But when you're making these decisions on the cards that you want in your collection, sometimes even though there's plenty of copies, you'll acquire one just because, you know, it makes sense.

But when you have to make a decision, do you find yourself, like, how do you weigh the the the first appearance and the, the the aesthetic and then the rarity and scarcity?

Like, how do you factor all of those things into your buying decisions? Like, what what's, like, at the top of the list for you?

The first appearance is usually at the top, and that's why I still have one. I mean, this is a card that I I got a number of over the years because eight to ten years ago, these were very cheap, and most of this stuff was.

But I found myself, like, over time selling off some of these, and I'll always keep one because it is the first, and I do respect that.

But, the others have stories that are interesting and you could tell yourself a story, why they're equally important. So it's easier with someone like Clay, where there's a little bit of that controversy, than than some other ones.

But the the first one is a good guardrail I find to put myself on, to make sure that I'm not, you know, constantly pursuing more and different stuff.

The next one we have, which is one I I'm not sure I had ever seen a copy of this card. It's a 1964 Chocolates Simon. You got it in a PSA too.

Talk about this one. Yeah. So this is a, this is a European card. This is so this is, I believe, Ashes Clay's first non kite card. And so that's why it's significant to me. I actually have another copy of it here in a four.

This card's pretty rare. The PSA total pops 33, so much more rare. You might see one a year pop up for sale over the years that I've been kinda following these. I think the image is a little cheesy, but very cool too.

Because, like, when I think of Cassius Clare Mavendaldi, I think about him talking. Right? I think about him telling people how great he is and, telling him what he's gonna do and how he's the greatest.

And, like, that looks like what he's doing in this image. Right? So while it's not super flattering, it does seem appropriate.

And so, like I said, I I've always really liked this card because it's his first non cut card, which I do think is significant. It's much more difficult to find, which makes it interesting to me.

And then like I said, the image just always kinda it's I've always thought that that is appropriate. I I literally, when I saw this card, the first thing I in my mind, I thought I pictured him saying I'm the greatest.

Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. We got a couple more. The next one's an oversized card. Let's talk about this one here, which is super cool. Yeah. This is the exhibits. Exhibits could be its own episode by itself with people.

There's actually a very good book by an author, Adam Warshaw, a very good collector. I think he's an attorney out of Los Angeles, but he wrote literally wrote the book on exhibits. And exhibits were basically like a arcade type.

You would put a pinion, turn a dial, and a card would come out. And so you can find these from the early nineteen hundreds of sports figure. You know, Babe Ruth has exhibits, Mickey Mantle, all all those people.

Ronald Reagan has exhibits just through the years of of different characters. Then this is, you know, the first one of of Cassius Clay. I have a couple of these as well, that I've picked up over the years.

This is definitely a card I try to get whenever. Exhibits can be weird because they were made, like, in series over a number of different years, so it's they're not the timing isn't precisely dated always.

Like this one you see, it says '47 to '66. But there's a good chance that many of these were produced before he had a Panini card, for example, or had some of the other stuff that people would consider those.

And it's just it's a very interesting area that used to be very cheap. Like, people kind of always disregarded exhibits. Maybe eight or nine years ago, like, people realized Lou Gehrig's first card is actually an exhibit.

And it's also pretty rare. There's maybe, like, 20 or 30 graded, and that card sells for 20 to a hundred thousand dollars depending on grade now.

So I think exhibits have become more accepted because of that one because, again, we talked about the in the twenties, there was a dearth of cards. Right?

Like, Gehrig doesn't really have a significant card until '33. So to find something made of him in 1925 is pretty pretty interesting to people. So I think that's made more interest in exhibits, but I really like them. I like the pose.

I like the black and white nature of them. I just I really like them. I can see you you put a time range on a card. I'm sure that is one of the many different reasons why we're debating which Cassius Clay card came first.

Yeah. The other thing with exhibits to be aware is, like, they printed them into the seventies. Those ones generally have, like, a white the the back is white.

And so those are the ones that, like, PSA won't create those because they consider them kinda reprints. They were made by the same company, but they weren't part of the original print run.

The original one should have almost more like a cardboard y back, when you're looking at them. Okay. So this is this baby is the maybe the most cards we've ever covered in an episode of Stagging Slab. So congratulations, Ben.

We'll send you a trophy. This is this is the final card, another cash is clay. Round us out with, this card and why why it matters to you. Yeah. So this is, for what everybody can tell, the first pack issued Casa's credit card.

And so this is a 1965 Lambo. There's two different versions of it, but it's it's it's rare, probably, you know, a hundred or so total population. And I think this is a wonderful image.

Right? I think the blue background is just awesome. He's young. He's he's standing there in full profile, and, again, packed pulled. Right? So from me, like, the definition from doctor Beckett in the nineteen eighties. Right?

Like, the other ones would be XRCs, and this would be the rookie card. And so this is a card that I've always liked and tried to tried to find. There was a collector, Brooklyn Vintage on Instagram who had a number of these, going back.

And over the years, he's sold off some of them. So but for a long time, this is a very hard card to find. And this is a beautiful copy of them. A lot of times, they're they're pretty miscut, and they can have bad registration.

But this one in particular was was great. This is one that I was speaking earlier about Mark, uncommon curator. I bought this from him at the twenty eighteen National. And when I saw it, I was like, oh my god.

I've looked for this forever, and it's just sitting here at the last row of this commencement center in Cleveland. So, yeah, one of my one of my favorite parts. Just an amazing collection. We covered a ton of ground. I don't know.

Like, this I don't hear many people talking about this type of collecting or collecting based on a subject like history. I don't know. You obviously have a ton of passion. This you've been collecting this for years upon years.

I guess, what sort of feedback maybe would you offer the audience who are, you know, maybe trying to find their footing or explore a new category of collecting that they haven't anymore?

Just based on your experience of building out this collection, what would you leave, listeners with? Yeah. I think, like, we've talked about part of the fun is the research. Right? Part of the fun is the discovery.

And so I think, like, if you have a particular interest, whether it's music, right, whether it's particular intellectual property, whether it's a certain period of history, you know, it can all start with with just that research.

And it doesn't have to be graded. It doesn't have to be expensive. Right?

Like, you can look on there's plenty of this stuff on COMC, that you can buy raw and just have in your collection, whether it's musicians that you like or, you know, building out a binder or if there's times of parts of history or, you know, if you're Scottish and you're interested in cards that were made in Scotland or, you know, there's there's just a lot of different lanes that you can go down once you kinda step back and think, like, I identify as this.

Like, what sort of cards are there for this? Right? Like, this is I am a music collector. I am a musician. I am a you know, just like you kinda did with wrestling. Right? Like, a lot of people wouldn't think of wrestling with cards.

Right? They might think of figurines or they might think of other things. But when you step back and think like, I I love this thing. Oh, I wonder if there's cards for this thing.

And there usually are. Yes. Incredible. You can follow him at nonsense name cards on Instagram. Ben, this was a ton of fun. Looking forward to do it again down the road. Yeah. Thanks, Brett. Thanks for having me.

Really appreciate that conversation with Ben. I learned so much. Hopefully, you did too. Stuff I didn't even know had cards, man. Kicking it off with Geronimo. Who else is talking about Geronimo first cards, Hopefully, you enjoyed that.

Go check them out. Ben at nonsense name cards on Instagram. Thank you so much for supporting Stacking Slabs. Appreciate all of you. We'll be back with more content coming your way. Talk to you soon.