Alright. We are back. Excited about this conversation. Really want to dig into the topic of starting off collecting NBA and basketball cards and, picking up WNBA cards and collecting.

And I was thinking about this topic, and there was no one that I wanted to have this chat with more than my man, Carter, at MC Basketball PC.

On Instagram. I've been following his collecting, for quite some time. It's very diverse, basketball driven, both NBA and WNBA.

So we're gonna get into that. But without further ado, Carter, welcome. How are you? I'm well, man. Thanks for having me on. Let's, let's start with, maybe your Grizzlies fandom, out of the gates.

And I just how are you feeling about the current state of the Grizzlies? Just makeup of the team, players, direction. What's going on in your head as a fan right now?

Wow. Thank you for, opening that can of worms to start. That's great. It's been a weird few years with the Grizzlies. Anybody who's been watching NBA remembers that in 2022, the grizzlies were so fun.

And, there was just kinda this energy about them. And since then, it's been, weirdly directionless given that we have, like, a core of three really solid players.

And, so hoping for hoping for some better moves in the off season that kinda build a roster that can make the team fun again. But, you know, regardless, basketball is always fun, so can't get too low.

So maybe taking the fandom into cards, would you were would you as a Grizzlies fan, was that the catalyst for your basketball card collecting originally, or what was it something else?

I think yes and no. I collected as a kid, but I mostly did Pokemon, when I was, like, nine, 10 years old that, you know, they'd just come over, to The States.

And so I had collecting under my belt, from from that point, but I also had, like, a hand me down, sports card collection that I didn't add to it.

I wasn't active in it. I would just pull it out sometimes. And then, what got me back into cards originally was just being at Walmart.

I was in the self checkout line, and they had, you know, the, hanger packs and everything there. And I saw them, and I was like, man, I wonder what sports cards look like now.

Like, are they better? Are they changed? Are they kinda the same? And I got a $5 hanger pack of NBA hoops. And I took it home, and I was just kinda looking through it.

I was like, yeah. They do mostly look the same. And And then I get to the middle of the pack. There's this, like, shiny foil one, and, I open it up. It's it's twenty eighteen nineteen hoops.

I open it up, and there's a Luca Doncic teal explosion rookie in there. I was like, oh, Luca. He's a big, you know, player. And, so I looked it up on eBay, and it was going for, like, $65 on eBay. I was like, that is no way. No way.

And so that kind of got got me into the wormhole, you know, where you you kinda fall down the eBay, pit. And, and immediately, it went to where are the grizzlies at? You know, what's what's available for for Memphis grizzlies stuff?

And, I was kinda discovering that there was this whole plethora of cards that could really illustrate my sports fandom and, and added a dimension of ownership to my my fan interaction, you know, giving me a way to kinda connect with the game on a deeper level, without gambling.

So you I love the story, and it sound it's like a similar story that most of us have, although you had a pretty good hit in your hanger pack, but just going and buying retail and kind of reigniting it.

What's when you kind of refined your approach and you wanted to focus in on grizzlies and then focus in on your Mike Conley collection, which I have not seen a a more impressive Conley collection than yours, like, what were those things around you?

Like, what role did, like, the community play? What role did you play in your like, the self discovery?

Like, all those factors that got you to the point where you're, like, in this lane where you're, you know, collecting for yourself and collecting because you're, you know, passionate about your team and those players?

Yeah. As I started my collection, my focus was on the Grizzlies and specifically the the core four players from the twenty tens, Mark Russell, Zach Randolph, Tony Allen, Mike Conley.

Those guys ignited grizzlies fandom for pretty much everyone in the city. Anybody at least before born before 2010, they're gonna point to those guys as the peak of of Grizzlies basketball.

It was so fun. There those guys are all getting their jerseys retired in the rafters just because of what they mean to us as fans. And I I quickly found, like, the tension between quantity and quality with those guys.

Right? I I wanted the depth of those players' catalogs and everything they had to offer, but, I couldn't do that for all of them. Like, it just wasn't possible on you know, I I started with a limited budget.

I wanted to be responsible. And so I experimented with that idea of diving deeper into one of those four, but had to make a dis you know, a difficult decision on who that would be.

Ultimately, it came down more so to the cards than the player. Believe it or not. You know? I wanted to pick out a a player who had a good catalog of cards for what I was interested in.

Tony Allen was kinda my thought that he had a really abbreviated catalog, especially for grizzlies cards. He was considered kind of a fringe role player for most of his career, outside of Memphis.

And so and he wasn't drafted with the grizzlies. I I wanted someone who had rookie cards with Memphis. And so it's the same story with Zach Randolph.

He had a bunch of cards throughout his playing days, but, you know, one of those grizzlies rookies. And so thought about Mark Gasol, but he was a round pick, so he didn't get into a ton of sets really limited early on in his career.

And then, he also stayed in Spain for a year after being drafted, so card companies didn't try to get anything signed from him for his rookie year or a few years after that.

And so that left Mike Conley, who was a high draft pick. So he had a deep catalog from the jump. He was drafted by the grizzlies. And so it was it was it allowed me to really open up that depth in the way that I wanted to.

And then on top of that, he's an amazing competitor, really diverse skill set and just a great dude, you know, and so it was kind of a a fit from there. It was it was really good too. I also I was listening to wax museum podcast.

This kinda reminds me because you asked about, you know, kinda how the community played a point. But I was listening to wax museum early on in my collecting. Stephen Howley, s Howley two thousand three on Instagram.

He, was on his episode, I think, with Kyle. They they talk all the time now, but, he was talking about his Jay Crowder player collection. And it's an amazing episode if you anybody wants to kinda dig back and listen to that.

And that really listening to it helped me solidify that identity as a Mike Conley collector. I was like, oh, he's enjoying this. I can do this. You know? And, and the timing was really good on that.

Because shortly after that, there were some opportunities for me to pick up some incredible pieces for my Conley collection that, you know, half a decade later, they're still the best cards I have of his.

And so I really I felt like I needed that confidence in my identity as a MyConnie collector to really sink those heavy resources in, but it really paid off.

It's funny you mentioned that episode. I can remember exactly where I was when I listened to that conversation, and, it was very enlightening.

So shout out to, Steve and Kyle at the Wax Museum podcast for for putting that on. I think it's interesting that you talked about, like, the the card catalog and put, like, selection when going into a player PC like Mike Conley.

What what types of cards that did you see or discover or products, that Mike Conley had either rookie cards in or maybe in later years in that time frame that really appealed to you and, made you wanna pursue it, even further.

Mhmm. From the jump, it was autographs and game worn stuff. That immediately resonated with me as something that could help me feel a lot closer to the game.

And so and I just really loved the look of, like, a thick chunky patch with an odd on card autograph next to it. And so that was what I felt like made collecting sustainable was that it had this, really full dimension to it.

It wasn't just the artwork on the cards, which is great. It wasn't just the rarity. It was something that touched the actual game that really kinda set me off on it.

Do you do you find with a player like Mike Conley where I'm sure you get into, you know, some of his best cards, you know, it's it's not necessarily affordable.

Right? But I I just if you're setting out to collect Mike Conley, it's a lot different than collecting a top tier player like LeBron. Do you have you felt as you've been building this collection with Conley that, like, hey.

I have the opportunity to perhaps build one of the best Conley collections in the world, or are there a bunch of other Mike Conley collectors out there that I just don't know about?

So it it's a little bit of both. I definitely started off with the hubris of, like, not as I was learning what was out there, I wasn't seeing anybody collecting Conley.

And so I was like, okay. This is a guy I love who is legitimately an awesome player, and his stuff is affordable, and it doesn't seem like anybody else is going after it.

And so I really, felt really sure of myself when I picked up shortly after listening to that episode, his logo man RPA, the one of one from SPX, I was able to get that in an auction for pretty cheap.

And then after that, I connected with a local collector who was offloading his Mike Conley stuff, and there was a bunch of really rare exquisite RPAs and things like that.

And I was like, oh, I'm I'm killing this. And I was like, I'm I'm easily gonna have one of the best collection the best Mike Connick collection.

It's not even gonna be hard. And then I, ran across a collector in, maybe Hong Kong, I think, somewhere in in Asia who has, you know, amazing stuff.

Like, he's got his super fracture, tops chrome rookie, and his finest super fracture, and all these one of ones and stuff. And I'm like, oh, man. So I I am not the only one.

I'll tell you that. But, it's still been it's been really fun to still get some of the best stuff available for him. Those Asian collectors are always sure to to show up, us out here trying to build out our collections.

That's for sure. Maybe before we move over to, like, kind of your WNBA collecting, you, like did you find that, you know, consistently posting about Conley, consistently sharing your Conley cards?

Like, did that help you become a magnet for other Conley cards?

Like, when collectors in the community would see them, they'd share them with you. Or if someone had something that you didn't know about, they maybe make it available to you.

Shed some light on that. Oh, 100% the community recognizes someone who's trying to do something that they admire, and, and we support each other.

Right? And so when I started to hone my collection around my Conley, I made sure to make that clear in, like, my Instagram posting and my hobby interactions, kinda telling that that story line of where I was at.

And it it opened up a bunch of stuff, you know, whether it was people who had things available, hey.

I would love to sell this to you or even sending me, like, hey. I've got some extra MyConley cards. I'll just ship them to you if you give me your address. Meeting up at shows and folks say, hey.

I've got, you know, a pack for you know how we do that. It's like, got the stack that I I need to give you. And, yeah. And then also just sending me eBay listings, you know, things that slip through my saved searches.

It's been really neat to see how I can look through my collection of my Connolly cards, and I can tell stories about different different collectors that I have friendships with or or I've interacted with in the past who have made it happen.

So we've established big grizzlies fan, you know, shared in kinda how you started focusing in on Connolly, building this collection, engaging with the community.

That's on the NBA side. Now when I guess, let's start here with the w. How long when like, when did you start, you know, regularly watching w games?

Like, has it always been a part of you being a basketball fan? Is it more recent? Maybe share shed some light on that, and then we'll talk about your collecting.

Mhmm. So I started collecting in 2019, right, with that $5 hanger pack. And, so I got about a year under my belt before the pandemic hit a little more, and, and that shut down sports.

Right? And so our our fandom in summer of twenty twenty as as sports fans was really truncated and it was incomplete for a lot of us.

And I think that's kind of what led to sports cards kinda coming on the rise in in part because it was a way to interact with our sports fandom, you know, that, we could do something around it.

And the hobby. It's a very sports cards is a very pandemic friendly hobby is what we've discovered. Right? You can do it through the mail. You don't have to, go out in person if you if you're not able to.

And so I was doing a lot of that as as most folks were, but the prices were going up on the things that I was interested in. And so I was like, how how can I get another angle on this?

Right? And I wanted something new to focus on. Sabrina UNESCO was coming off of an amazing college run. She had just gotten drafted into the w and they were ramping up for the the WNBA bubble, you know, alongside the NBA bubble.

There was also a WNBA. And, and so I discovered the cards behind WNBA as that was ramping up. I was like, these are really cool.

2019 Don rest had just come out, amazing product. And, I learned around that time that Prism was making its debut later that fall with Sabrina in it, and so I knew that it was gonna turn into something, really fun for me.

Do who do I know you collect a lot, and this is what I I find fascinating with WNBA collectors.

It it it feels like there is a lot of different player people collect, a lot of different interests. Obviously, like, a lot of us are fans of specific teams, but we like the players.

Who who who's your allegiance to? Like, when you're watching, you know, WNBA league pass, like, who is your team that you're you're you're cheering for regularly?

Mhmm. So that's kind of the interesting thing about WNBA for me is that I think it fills a really different lane than what NBA does. Right? Like you probably know this with your Pacers.

Like, it's hard to watch anything NBA related without your team or agents Yes. Kind of bleeding into it and and shaping how you think about whatever game it is even if the Pacers don't have anything to do with it.

Right? I'm the same way with the grizzlies. It's like, how does this how's the outcome of this affect Memphis? And I love the WNBA because I don't have a team remotely close to me regionally, and I haven't picked a team.

I can just watch it, and I can watch the teams, and I have no real team allegiance. I can enjoy the players and, the the dynamic of the league without that, and it's fun to just watch the basketball.

And so, you know, I had players that really, like, sucked me in to the league, sucked me into collecting, but I can still just kinda watch it for what it is and appreciate, you know, the the league as a whole.

I, what you were just describing resonates with me so much, and I've never talked about this and would love to, like, toss this back to you. But, like, for me personally, playoffs NBA playoffs is different story.

Right? I'll I'll typically watch everything. But I you know, regular season goes on. You know, I'm not watching every game or trying to watch every game. I'm watching the Pacers, and then everything else happens around.

And through the lens of just watching the Pacers, I get access to other teams, other players throughout the season. With the w, it's completely opposite for me where if there's a game on, I'm watching it.

If I'm not doing anything else, and so I'm constant feel like I'm watching a lot more basketball, and I'm getting more invested in specific players. Yeah. I'm I'm in Indiana. I'm a fever fan, but I'm also a fan of so many other players.

Sounds like kind of you are you've gone through some similar, iterations, as a w fan and an NBA fan. Do do can you explain, like, what is it about the WNBA product that you and I both kind of are here talking about similar experiences?

Mhmm. It's just got its own identity. It's it's not, following the NBA. It's not trying to, you know, ride the coattails of another league. It it's a separate thing really, more so than I think people realize.

And the most obvious things when you watch the league is you'll see how the players are showcased, not just for their on court abilities, but their personalities and the way that, the way that they put these players at the forefront is not necessarily more than how the NBA markets their superstars, but it's just really different.

You you feel like you know these players. Like, you could sit down and, you know, have coffee or or grab a drink with them and, and hit it off.

Right? Like, there's something about the way that you're able to get a peek into their lives that I really appreciate. The the game is just really pure. I mean, watch them play a quarter of ball and, it'll surprise you.

You know? That's that's something that I really appreciate about just being able to watch it and not think about, you know, how it affects my team allegiance is, like, I can just take everything in at once.

You mentioned, like, price point pandemic. Obviously, like, rewind the tape back to that era.

Everything was out of control. Specifically, basketball cards were out of control. You have night, twenty nineteen Donner's WNBA Panini product. You've got the debut prism with with Sabrina's rookie year going on.

So there's a lot of things during that time that are, like, bubbling up. You're, you know, looking for an alternative, a place to collect that's not gonna cost you an arm and a leg.

Do do you remember your, like, launch off point? Like, this isn't the card or this is the pack, and this is, like, the journey I'm starting with WNBA collecting.

Do you remember when that moment was? Mhmm. Yeah. I do. I was enthralled immediately with 2019 to unrest. And I specifically kinda looked at the checklist and saw how optic cards were inserted, and optic hollows were twice as rare.

And there's optic golds and, the insert sets are really fun in in that product and all that. And so I was like, okay. Let's dive in here. This is the kind of the beginning of the Panini era. And so I I went in for that.

I bought an entire case of that. And I ripped it all myself. 28 Can I ask you what that what did that cost at that time? It was I remember paying shipping and taxes altogether $1,100 for a 20 box case. So it was, like, $55 a box.

And it was totally worth it. Like, I I spent pretty much all of my available hobby funds at the time on that. I had a blast, and I pulled some amazing cards and, been able to trade them and all that into stuff that I wanted.

And, it it it was a really great debut product for Panini. That one was was super fun. Well, we just got the news that they're bringing Donruss back, which is cool.

Do you do you know I I mean, I've been trying to research and dig into it. Do you know if or have you caught wind if Optic is gonna be involved in that release, or is that just stand alone, Donris?

They better put some Optic in that configuration. If if not, that's a swing and a miss. That was one of the coolest things that that they did. And the and WNBA is not the only one to do that.

I think other smaller licenses like NASCAR and stuff, they've done optic as an insert into Donruss. And I think it's it's really great if you don't wanna do a stand alone, Optichrome product for that.

Yeah. I'm hoping so too. You know, they're, I've just seen the small promo that's happening. They're pushing the downtowns, and I'm like, no offense to any downtown collectors.

I'm like, I don't want the downtowns. I'm I'm I'm digging in because I wanna pull an optic gold or a gold vinyl. So, I guess we'll we'll have to see how that all shakes out.

Maybe, like, talk about when you that's you were early to the party. I know there's been w collectors that have been collecting, you know, since the early days, but that is early to the party.

In that time frame where you're buying a case of 2019 Donerous and, you know, getting integrated with the the cards?

Like, what was the community like at that time? Was there any other people that you connected with online doing similar stuff? Yeah.

It was a little hard to find at I kinda struggled to find other folks out there, and I did do, probably four or five months of WNBA collecting largely on my own without connecting with anybody, just because there wasn't I I looked up, like, WBA collectors on Instagram, and I found a couple.

Their accounts weren't super active, and it it took me a while. I eventually found some accounts I could at least follow, but the interactions were low for me.

And then it was fall of twenty twenty that a Facebook group started. The the WNBA Facebook group that's the biggest if you just look on on Facebook. Still got that 2020, product art at the top, and that was where things really took off.

I was able to quickly connect with some really amazing collectors through that Facebook group, and and that's kinda continued, and and spun off into different things.

I've now got a big group chat for WNBA collectors on Instagram and things like that.

It's it's pretty immersive once you find that kinda inner group. What if what have you discovered that is maybe similar to NBA collecting and maybe what's different from NBA collecting that you found with your w collecting?

Yeah. I'd say most of it is similar. Right? I don't think we need to overthink it.

The cards have the same features. There's base sets. There's inserts, serial numbers, parallels, autos, all of that. The gap, I think, for collectors who are entering into WNBA, it's not that hard to cross.

Everything feels pretty familiar right off the bat, but certainly there's once you get through that, you realize from that base of, okay, this is ultimately the same thing, you start to see massive amount of of differences.

Right? How the licenses have gone. Right? That it's flipped to different companies and, very different types of companies than what has carried NBA licenses through the years and things like that.

The biggest difference I'll note is kind of the duality that exists within the WNBA collecting, as a result of Caitlin Clark specifically.

Right? I know she she dominates every conversation around with WNBA right now, but it she's she's impossible to avoid.

You know? Her WMB collecting has been inundated with Caitlin Clark collecting. Right? And I would say related to, like, the the market or whatever, her values, her demand has pretty much been dissociated with the rest of the NBA.

You go and look at, like, a sales history platform. You look at Caitlin Clark stuff, and it's it is on par with an NBA player and not at all correlating with any other WNBA player right now. That's just kind of how I I look at it.

I think there's an easy case to make for that. And so the overall WNBA market, while it has gone up significantly, prices for all players in the last few years, it's not on the same level with Caitlin.

And so you can still buy these amazing cards of the best players in the history of the game for pennies compared to NBA greats or even to Caitlin Clark.

The flip side of that is I would say that that's led a lot of dedicated long time collectors to kinda lock up some of those amazing cards that you might be looking for.

But, even when they do come available, it's just it's not even comparable.

Right? And so there's that duality with with kind of the demand for cards as you someone may look at Caitlin Clark stuff and be like, oh, this is already out of my price range.

Look beyond her. Look beyond her draft class, and you'll find that there's some really amazing collecting that you can do. And I think that the community follows that thread.

There's been a massive influx of collectors who are going after Caitlin. They're going after other players draft in the last year or two. And, it may feel like this massive sea of folks.

If you can peel down to the folks who are collecting the whole league, you find a really amazing community that I think has been pretty well preserved of folks who are helping each other out and, kinda staying true to what collecting represents for their fandom for the WNBA, as a whole.

I think, maybe that piece of wisdom you shared, hopefully, anyone listening who's thinking about hopping into w collecting or maybe is in the early stages, I would take that to heart.

You know, I'm I'm in the epicenter of Caitlin Clark. There's fever fans, jerseys. Caitlin Clark's everywhere here.

I have to specifically be mindful and and conscious to not talk about Caitlin Clark all the time because I there is because there's there's so much other fun, exciting opportunity going on that's not going to cost you an arm and a leg.

And to me, that's what excites me the most about w collecting is the community, and then just it it just feels like you've got all of the these great players.

You got living legends playing right now, and their card prices are, you know, pennies on the dollar of what, you know, their NBA comparison would go for.

So I think that's, really important, advice that you shared. With the limitation of products and releases and with the community, it's growing certainly, and Clark is a big reason for that.

But with the community maybe, not being anywhere as big as, you know, an NBA or another major sport, like, how do you look at that where you see, okay.

There's only so many releases every year. Obviously, Panini is adding more releases this year because of Clark and Page coming in.

But how do you as a collector view that just maybe from the long term perspective where you've got limited product, you've got, limited cards, you've got maybe attention on Caitlin Clark, attention on Cameron Brink and other rookies from that class.

Like, how do you think and process all of that as you're, like, making the decision to, like, spend your money on specific cards and the timing and all of that?

Yeah. It's such a good thing to point out. I think I'm already thinking back to my answer about what's different about WNBA collecting.

And there's a huge pitfall to avoid when looking at the WNBA environment for sports cards, and that is to see the similarities when it comes to products and parallels and, sets all that, but not to make assumptions based on those similarities about how they translate to, like, NBA collecting.

You look at most of the years of Panini, still majority of the years have been one product. They moved to two products, I think, three years ago, and then this year had three.

And so that's really limited. I mean, just think about that. Like, the the 2019 optic or the the Donruss product, that was, I think, somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 cases total.

And yours truly ripped one of them all by myself. Right? Like, that's point 2% of the entire product that that went through my house. Like, that is insane to think about that for an entire year.

Right? That's Nafissa Collier's Yes. Season. 500 cases is the kind of the estimated run. There were $20 per case, so that's maybe, what, 10,000 cases that exist. And so there just wasn't much made, period.

And so when you look at a Don Russ rookie card or an optic that was, you know, one per pack, you can't make the mistake of thinking that an optic base card in WNBA equals an optic base card in NBA.

It doesn't. It's it's an entirely different thing.

And so, like, I look at something like a prism mojo out of 25 in in the prism product. And, you know, Mojos are really kind of not super popular in in NBA cards. And I think that's kind of the case in WNBA right now too.

In in some ways, folks look at them and they think about them like an NBA prison mojo, and it's not. It's a card numbered out of 25 that is from the only product that year a lot of times. Right? Or the only, like, chrome Prism product.

And so that's one of the things that really with collecting I've had to be mindful of is, hey, let's go after the rarity for what it is in this space, according to the the products that are available for these players each year and not just fall back on my NBA collecting ways, because it's a totally different landscape.

You know? Yeah. Mojo, I love the fact that it's just it's it's longevity, and it has consistency in all of the Prism releases.

So that's a a great one to call out. And I know, like, as a hobby in general, we're infatuated with rookies and rookie cards and classes.

But, like, just for the listeners to know if you if you haven't been digging in, but, like, the 2019, you just mentioned, Nafissa Collier, front runner for MVP this year, her rookie class debut Panini product.

And to me, that's, like, my antennas go up if I didn't know that to go explore that.

And then you mentioned the debut Prism with Sabrina. So it's like all of these, like, big sets or sets also are paired with, like, great rookies or great rookie classes, which I think is, really important.

And, like, when I'm digging into the research and looking at stuff like that, it makes me really excited about just the long term potential of collecting a category that I really enjoy, but also it being something that maybe increases, with interest over time.

You talked about, you know, watching a lot, you know, having interest in a lot of different players. Like, if I were to ask you, Carter, like, who do you primarily collect on the w side?

Like, who are some players that you're focused on right now? Mhmm. I started out in collecting trying to find a connection to where I already was. Right? I think we all do that when we try to get into an a new, category.

It's like, is there is there a thread that I can follow? And so I I'm a Mississippi State alum. I went I went to school there and watched some amazing women's basketball teams, and they got even better after I left college.

And so I looked for that There were two players from state who were drafted in in the recent years after I had gotten into it. Victoria Vivian's in 2018, Tierra McCowen in in 2019.

And so I wanted to collect them. I I found their cards. I was like, that's great. Let's start there. But then I also very quickly realized that the best players in the game were really cheap. So I was like, I don't wanna miss that.

I don't wanna miss out on these, established stars, but also kind of these up and coming stars who, you know, as they're coming into the league and Panini has taken over, I can kinda grow my collection as they grow their career.

So that's what I was looking for initially. And so I landed on, Asia Wilson and Enrique Agimbawale.

And that those two were still related to that Mississippi State connection. In those last couple of years, state had been to the final four both years, and they had gotten beat both years, by South Carolina in '18 led by Asia Wilson.

And then in 2019, there was I'm sure you watched it, Brett, that that Notre Dame, Mississippi State game, which was bonkers.

Mississippi State had won, and then Jackie Young steals the ball from Morgan William, pops it to Enrique for that insane shot. And I hated both of those dudes. I hated it so much, but that hate turned into respect.

I was like, I wanna collect the players who beat my team. Like, I because I saw something in them. Like, they are dogs. And so I went for that early when those players were in, like, their years.

And sure enough, that WNBA bubble year was the season that I watched WNBA, and, and I I watched Asia Wilson win her MVP as I was collecting her cards, and Enrique led the league in scoring and all that.

And so I was like, okay. I'm gonna do this. And so, fast forward to now, Asia Wilson has really taken over my collection. I I had to make a decision when she won her MVP and her title. I was like, I gotta go all in while I can.

And so, she's kinda taken the forefront, but I still collect Enrique, McKown, Vivian's, along with some of those other, you know, older hall of famer greats who are still really, fun to to pick up.

You picked up, you picked some good ones. It's hard to it's I I, like, struggle to put this into words and context.

But with AJ Wilson, like, we're when and this always happens in any sport. When there is one of the greatest players of all time actively playing, it's really hard to put it into words and to, like, communicate that, hey, everybody.

Like, you can go turn on an ACEs game right now and go watch one of the greatest players ever who's got so much left in the tank. And, you know, she she as in Asia has, you know, such, cultural impact.

She has been a big reason why there's been more eyeballs, and, you know, there's been more interest. And I love watching her play. And so I think, you know, I looked up the the stats.

She's all time in player efficiency rating to Cynthia Cooper, which is that's pretty good company to be in. So you you've just you decided you're like, okay, MVP, like, I'm collect I'm collecting.

She gets her MVP. And, like, during this period of time where you're still collecting, she's established herself not only as a great player in the w, but, like, a living legend.

Literally, living legend wants has won championships. Maybe take us through the, roadblocks and obstacles that have come or haven't come along the way as she continues to solidify her position.

Has there been more competition her on her cards? Have her cards gone up in value since you started collecting? Maybe talk to us about just, like, navigating those dynamics.

Yeah. It's it's been a a wild ride. I mean, I I was picking up her stuff in '29 or 2020, for really cheap from that that Donra set. And one of the mistakes that I made at that point in my collecting was underestimating Rittenhouse.

That stuff was really available in 2020, Rittenhouse cards. And, you know, it's funny as even as we're recording this, it comes a day after a a platinum rookie of hers from Rittenhouse ended.

And it was a staggering number. And, you know, we'll see if that auction gets paid for or whatever, you know, those kinda intricacies.

But, I remember being offered a platinum rookie for, like, a fraction, a small fraction, Brett, of that, what it ended for in 2020 and I or 2021 maybe.

I turned it down because I was like, I'm no way I'm paying 4 figures for any card, really, much less a WNBA card, you know, just because of where the market was.

And now I wish I could go back. Right? But I certainly wish I could go back and buy a million, of her rookies, because well, off, you can't buy a million of her rookies.

There's only 500 of them total. Right? And so, you know, I I was able to pick up a rookie of hers and and a rookie a couple rookie autos before things really got insane.

But it was just a different time back then, and I was I was a little hesitant to go in on her biggest stuff. As I've seen where her her career is going, I know she's gonna be one of the greatest.

She's probably going to retire as the greatest player to play. And I am operating on that assumption based on a really established trajectory. Right? All the MVPs, all the titles, you know, and she's not 30 yet.

And so I've kind of been asking myself this question, Brett. Like, if I could go back to the nineties and collect Michael Jordan, what would I do? What kind of risks would I take? And I'm operating in that mode. Like, how do I do this?

And so I'm not the only one doing that. It's gotten a lot more competitive, but I've gotten a lot more aggressive too, which is why she's kinda taken the forefront over some of those other players in my collection.

Oh, I love this. So the and, again, we got there was 44 bids. We'll see if it gets paid. The card that Carter was referring to, the platinum rookie sold for north of 11 k, which is, you know, you you look at Caitlin.

It's like you were talking about earlier. Like, I pull up card ladder and I, like, type in WNBA and then sort it by highest sales.

Like, you're gonna scroll for days, and it's gonna be all Caitlin Clark stuff. But then when you when you start to look at, like, what's next, like, that sale is, maybe the next or one of the next, highest w sales of all time.

So people are understanding, realizing, coming in, and, like you said, maybe are realizing, wow.

This is my opportunity to collect one of the greatest players of all time, at a price that's a a fraction of a a LeBron or one of the other, you know, great players in the NBA side.

Do do you do you feel, do you feel, like, what's coming in, like, the new audience coming in, do you feel like there's genuine and authenticity to it? And I don't mean to be, like, polarizing.

And I'm not saying, like, if you're not, like, truly a an Agent Wilson fan, you can't collect your cards. But, like, what are your observations on some of the the new interest that's coming into the category right now?

Yeah. I'll get my pessimism out of the way and just acknowledge there are a lot of people cash grabbing on Caitlin Clark stuff right now and and other young players.

You know, they they see what they perceive to be an untapped market, however you wanna validate that perspective, and and they're just kinda going for it.

But I don't think that's necessarily the the overall theme. I do think there's a lot of new entrants who may they may be coming in because of these young players.

They may be coming in because of Caitlin Clark, or they may just see all that attention and be giving themselves permission for the time to enjoy collecting women's sports.

They may just say, hey. Caitlin Clark has broken through. I can I can step into this, and I can enjoy this and not feel like I'm, going too far off the beaten path, you know, which is totally cool?

And so I've seen a lot of folks who, who are are really enjoying it now, because they've seen what's possible. And so I'm really excited about that.

You know, it it's brought with it, you know, some of the the pitfalls of of mainstream collecting that I really feel like we as WNBA collectors were insulated from for a while. And, and so you just have to be careful.

Right? But that's that's true for all collectors in in every space eventually. You just have to learn how to be careful. But overall, I think that there's there's really good things happening with WNBA collecting.

And I think that when folks give themselves permission to really dive in to all that the league has to offer, we can start to see a much healthier interaction when it comes to even, like, card shows and things like that where when you're seeing these things available and you're not hearing as many of the weird comments and stuff that that people are making.

You're just kind of seeing collecting going on. You know?

I'm I'm really excited for that future. You and I both. I gotta ask. Your collection, what are maybe your when you think about your w collection, what are some of those top cards that your favorite cards in your collection and why?

Yeah. My my favorite cards in my collection were the the Asia Wilson rookie cards that I picked up a couple of years ago. Just I love what those represent. They're they're 2018 Rittenhouse is the last year of Rittenhouse.

Really small brand. They print printed these cards in small quantities. You know, they would do a complete set, and they would print 500 sets, put each set in a sealed box with some random autographs. And and that was the product.

It was very different than, you know, the stuff you'd see, you know, from other bigger licenses and, and I love those. So I have one of her her base autograph her her base, rookie cards, you know, 500 print run.

And, I was able to get that graded at a gym, and so it's a PSA 10. And I love that. Puts it on a a little bit of a a higher level. It's a beautiful card too.

I I encourage folks who don't know what I'm talking about to go look it up. But, that along with her rookie autograph, it's an on card. It's got an inscription, and it's just it's beautifully printed. I I have a couple of those.

Those are kinda my mainstays. And then I've got some Asia Prism Golds, some Prism Gold autographs, Prism Gold inserts that I really love. And, and so those, like, top Asia Wilson cards, I don't have single one of one of hers.

That's kind of one of those things that I I had opportunities earlier, but I would have had to really go in. And, and I just wasn't ready to dive in, you know, that deep with, with my resources.

But, working on that, hopefully, someday, I'll be able to say that's kind of at the pinnacle is maybe one of those maybe that twenty twenty black prism.

I don't know. Something like that. But, has that has that card been the and now that you as you say that, I'm like, have have I seen that?

Has that card been seen before? Do you know where that's at? I don't know if the Asia black has surfaced. My mind's kinda blanking for it right now.

I don't I don't think I've seen it necessarily. Oh, man. Somebody's gonna go out there and load up on, some hobby boxes trying to rip it. Be be safe out there if you're if you're going by hobby boxes. Boxes.

There's probably a bunch of not so great stuff in there at this point. Carter, before I let you go, man, this has been a fun conversation. I'd love you know, we talked about your MBA collecting, talked about your w m w collecting.

Collecting. I would imagine most people listening here are probably there's a lot more NBA collectors than w collectors, which is which is normal and fine.

But, also, there's probably people that are maybe interested in pursuing w collecting for the time. You know, you've been in it for a while.

What what sort of advice maybe would you give and you've given a ton of advice throughout this chat, but maybe, like, what's the one key piece of feedback you give to anyone in that position right now?

Yeah. So, like, somebody who collects NBA, but Yep. W. Yeah. I think I would say generally the same things that I would say to somebody who's considering getting into cards in general.

And the thing I would say is it's really fun. Like, I if you enjoy collecting and watching NBA, I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy the w, but you just have to give it an honest chance.

You have to watch it. Don't and don't buy into those lame excuses that people give to discount women's basketball.

You know, people will say all kind of wild stuff. Like, they don't dunk in games. It's like and that's their way of invalidating the whole league. It's like that also could be used to invalidate Steph Curry. Yeah.

But watch Steph Curry. He is fun. You know? Like and and so I would just say, yeah. It it's really fun. Go and have fun and and see if you can enjoy it that way. WNBA is pro ball, and it's really good, and it's only getting better.

And and go give it an honest look and see if it's something that can be worth your while. But also, I would say if you find yourself in that place, make sure you start with something that you enjoy.

Don't start with what you think is most popular. Don't start with something that you think has the most future financial value. You just don't wanna chase things based on outside circumstances that you can't control.

Right? Like, you wanna find that player or that team that excites you, that set or, you know, parallel that looked great in a binder, whatever it is for you.

Maybe there's a serial number out there that you think for the price is really fun to, you know, really rare.

Just identify for you what is most fun intrinsically and let that external stuff be a bonus, but just enjoy yourself. You know? I guess that's kind of I could have just said that.

Enjoy yourself. Right? And, and let it stay there. You can follow him at MC Basketball PC on Instagram. Carter, this was a ton of fun, man. Appreciate you coming on. Yeah. Thank you so much, Brett.