Alright. This is a conversation I've been looking forward to for a while. Probably, alienate some of you because this is gonna be the, Pacers and Tyrese Halliburton hype fest.

I'm joined by my partner in crime today, Rodney, and Joy Card's IG. I have traded so many messages about the Pacers and Tyrese Halliburton and collecting and, you name it.

But we're gonna dig into his collection, his fandom with, the Pacers and Halliburton, and it's gonna be a lot of fun, especially as we record this.

There's seven games left in the regular season. So there's a lot to talk about. But without further ado, Rodney, welcome, man. How are you? Hey, man. Thanks for having me on.

This is I've been looking forward to this since you invited me. And just quick shout out to you, man. I mean, I just, watching your evolution in the hobby and, you know, what you do, in the collector space is just I just love it.

It's you know, there's when I got into collecting cards, it was a lot more flipping and, was a bit you know, the market it was right right around the pandemic, actually, when I got in.

And, I mean, I collected as a kid, but, that was, you know, as I kind of found my way through the space and sort of found you on the on the Internet.

It's been it was really nice to just find someone who was focused on just collecting and kinda be able to learn from you and all the folks that you have on your show. And so congratulations, man, what you're growing, what you're doing.

Appreciate that, man. It is this will, primarily be, Pacers, Halliburton driven, but I feel like I feel obligated in a way because you're a Duke guy that, you know, as we're recording this, you get your squads in the final four.

Yeah. And, also, I know you collect Grant Hill, and you've got some Duke in your collection. So maybe before we talk about the Pacers, talk about the Duke of it all.

Yeah. No. That it's a great that's a great segue because, so I graduated from Duke in '93. So I was there doing during a really good stretch, man. It was, we won two back to back national championships.

I was there in Indianapolis, your hometown, for the final four that year. I mean, that was just, it was insane. Help help listeners, recall which final four that that was because maybe the most iconic ever.

Oh my god, man. So, you know, that was Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill, Christian Laettner, you know, a lot of Laettner haters out there, a lot of educators. My my view on Leitner is, like, he's an asshole, but he's our asshole.

You know? I mean, it would just he would you know, just the there that run that year, they were up against UNLV in the final four first round round of the final four.

And UNLV, I think, was undefeated and just sort of almost preordained as just I mean, they were you know, ironically, they they were they were the all pro college team before Duke was the all pro college team.

And so, I mean, they just I mean, there was just no way we were gonna win that game, but, it was incredible.

We we went back to the player hotel after that after that win, and there was a there was a guy who owned the the little grocery store on campus, uncle Harry, and he opened up the bar, for everyone who was there.

And this was back in the you know, it was a different time, and, I ran into Grant Hill's dad, Calvin Hill, in the elevator.

I talked with Billy King at the bar. I went wandering around at one point, and I found Bobby Hurley just sitting alone in a hot tub.

And I walked over. I was like, alright, man. You know, I was just thinking about it. I was like, I don't wanna be that guy, but, god, it was a fucking awesome three pointer you hit. So I went over there, and I was just like, hey, man.

Just real quick. That fucking three hit was amazing, and he gave me a high five there. And I I thought it was just incredible times, and they went on to to, beat Kansas in the in the final game, and that was just it was epic.

I mean, Grant Hill was on the alley oop with the, Sports Illustrated cover. Just great times. So, I mean, that that's how I that's how I got into Grant Hill collecting.

I mean, I was, during the pandemic, some buddies well, before the pandemic, some buddies and I were play were we had vault tickets. Everything was all set up to go see the Pelicans and the Grizzlies play in Memphis.

And that's when all the, yeah, all the things started coming out. You know? Hey. You know, there's COVID thing going on. You know? Here's kinda what's going on. I remember just chiming up in the chat, just saying, hey, guys.

I I wonder if we should really do this. You know? And we ended up having to cancel the trip. But before we went, I I was like, god. It'd be fun to get an autograph, because he had a hookup with one of my buddies.

His, one of his family members worked for the Grizzlies, so they were gonna get us VIP passes. And, so I went online, and I looked on eBay, and I was like, oh, I could buy a couple of cards here maybe and get those autographed.

And when I did, I was just like, woah. What's going on here? Like, this is this is crazy. And that's that's how I actually got hooked into to cart back into card collecting, just that experience.

And it's been a ride ever since. What, maybe in your collection, your your the Grand Hill wing of your collection, what are maybe some of your favorite cards in in that space?

And are you still actively buying Grant Hill stuff? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, unfortunately, like most collectors, I do not have unlimited funds.

And, so, you know, to begin with, I mean, I was all over the board, just collecting stuff. And, I got into some set collecting. I I fell in love with a 02/2008 set, tops chrome, basketball.

And so I started collecting that set. And, you know, as I moved on from, like, the base cards to the chrome, I have the whole orange refractor set, the complete set of that, which is pretty fun.

But I would sell off some of the other cards that I no longer wanted, and just kinda use that, you know, to generate funds for for other things.

And then I was just kinda looking for Elaine. I was like, well, Grant Hill is my obvious guy.

I mean, he was he was there when I was at Duke. I met him, and I just, you know, was just such an amazing person and player. You know, I it would have been it would have been a blast to see what happened if, if he hadn't gotten injured.

But, yeah, I fell in love with him. I have, like, a I have a few Grant Hill things here. This is probably this is probably my favorite of my Grant Hills.

This is the Ultra Stars gold. And, man, if you've and one one of the fun things about collecting has been, you know, you see stuff, you see pictures of them, and you're like, wow, that's a cool card.

And sometimes you get it in hand, and you're a little disappointed.

You're like, ah, man. This is not exactly what I expected. But this Ultra Star is gold, and and they're pretty I don't know the pop count on the these, but they're they're pretty low pop, and, you know, as I consider low pop.

But, just the refractor pattern and and hand, I mean, it's just the it it's probably one of my favorite cards that I have. It's just, yeah, just spec.

Those are so cool, and the checklist of those are so cool. And I would definitely tell anyone if you're into or thinking about getting into nineties cards that the Ultra Stars and the Ultra Stars golds are a fun place to start.

I've never owned one, but I I I'm mesmerized every time I see one on my IG team.

Yeah. Yeah. Even just the straight up Ultra Stars is a is a pretty card, and it's, you know, that's not that's not that expensive, to get that. And I that's a good bang for the buck card.

I've got I didn't pull this out, but I've got it right here. This is this is the 98 central credentials future Grant Hill. And that is these cards are just man, I mean, I I mean, I'm seeing them pop up a lot in in my feed these days.

They seem I don't I don't know how they've maybe I'm just noticing it more, but it seems like those are something that are just kind of the hot nineties basketball items. But, this card is just the craftsmanship and the detail.

And, I mean, there's just there's so much to this card. I mean, just the depth of it, and just the you know, they've got got the Pistons got the Pistons logo down there, which is really cool.

And then it's also in the background, and then there's layers, and there's acetate, and there's, you know, there's translucency to the card.

I mean, it just and then they put the stats kind of along the little curve, and you see the I mean, I don't know, man. It's just it's a awesome card.

I just, I I mean, I bought this a couple of years ago, but, yeah, I I I love that one. This is, this is one more Grant Hill card that I really like, and I'm gonna I'm probably gonna upset someone here with this.

But, one thing I like is I like these it's been fun. One of the fun parts of the hobby has been finding little things on the periphery that I like about it. So it's like so, I know you're a stacking slab, so you're a graded card guy.

You know? But, I really like my ProMold holders. And these particular ones, you can put the sleeve. So you can sleeve the card and then you put the card in inside there.

But, what I like when I have that is I can open it up, I can take the card out, you know, I can I can look at the card really you know, once it's graded, it's in there? You know? But the Yes.

This these noise boys, check this out. Check this out. It's good ending. I've I've never I know you could do that, but I've never seen anyone actually Rodney is bending the noise floor safely safely. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Very carefully.

Very carefully. But it's you know, I don't know what the material is, but it it's some kind of plastic, like a vinyl almost, but super super, flexible and but, you know, it's it's also just I mean, look at that card, man.

It just I mean, nothing says nineties like noise with a z. Yeah. Boys with a z.

You know, just I don't know. And then the shine and and the die cut, like, just I don't know, man. They just, I don't I don't wanna sound like a old timer, but they just they really don't, they don't make the die cuts like they used to.

You know, that's just I don't know. Just a really cool design. When when you're when you when you're looking at the noise, boys, and I know we we won't, like, go into the music too much, but I know you're a music guy.

Like, what like, looking at that card, what is the, like what is the nineties song that comes to your head that, like, epitomizes that? Like, what what's coming to your brain right now? Oh my god, dude. I am, you you caught me.

You stuck me. Man, what what do I think of when I think of this? I mean, I definitely think of, like, nineties hip hop, but, the noise the noise boys thing is like a it's a you know, like, I love the kitsch in nineties cards.

You know? There's just I mean, you know, just the z. Man, I I I'm sad to say I'm drawing a blank. What what what would come to your mind?

What would you I don't know what I don't know why. This. No. I I I I don't know why, but when you held that up, like, in my brain, what immediately went off was, like, Rex and effects from Shaker, something like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it definitely has a vibe. Right? It's got a vibe, and it's I mean, you could look at that card and know what error is from probably if you didn't know anything about about cards at all.

Totally. I got I got I do have one more Grant Hill that I had pulled out. This is the, this is the good stuff. More more good stuff. It's just such a unique refractor pattern.

This isn't one that you see as much when people talk about sort of, you know, the more iconic nineties cards, but I think this one's out of a hundred. But I just it's such a cool refractor pattern.

Let listeners know what you're holding up. Oh oh, yeah. Sorry. So this is the, more good stuff, Skybox Premium Grant Hill. Yeah. Just fantastic. So you you you it's very apparent that you're, you like the shiny stuff.

Aesthetics are important to you. Maybe maybe talk about that before we get into Halliburton. Just, like, how important is, like, appearance of a card to you when it's going into your collection?

Yeah. Wow. That's a that's a great, it's a great question. You know, it's, you know, like, probably a lot of the collectors who, you know, who listen to the show, it's it's an evolution.

Right? You know, my taste, you know, it's I mean, you know, I hate buying furniture for my house because I'm like, you know, at some point at some point, I'm gonna I'm not gonna like this anymore.

You know? I'm gonna it's it's not gonna be the style I like.

So it it's been an evolution. I you know, for for me, like so and I'll talk about this more when we talk about Halliburton, but, you know, one of the things I did is I'm collecting just Halliburton golds.

And for a while, I was purposefully indiscriminate. And I did that because it was a good chance to just get cards in hand and see see what I liked.

But at the end of the day, for my card collection, there are I'm sure I have some that I I'm not a huge fan of the aesthetics, but there's something something meaningful about the card otherwise.

But, for, you know, for a lot of the modern stuff in the nineties.

I mean, god, the nineties were just I mean, it was just the heyday for a lot of folks who have been, you know, collectors, basketball card collectors of just incredible design.

You know? So so much good stuff to pick from. So, you know, for me, that's a that's a big part of the cards that I wanna keep in my collection is just a card that I actually enjoy getting out, looking at, showing to other people.

Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know how it's to describe that. So, the Pacers, if you have not been a Pacers fan forever.

You're you're newer to the squad, which I I've joked with you back and forth of, like, you know, you've you you, you you came in at a good time because it hasn't always been this good.

Like, it was a it was a rough patch for a little while. But maybe, maybe talk about how the the the fandom started and then then how cards got involved in that.

Like, how did you become a patient? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. That that's a great question. So I I would say, first and foremost, I'm a basketball fan. Okay? Like, I grew up playing basketball.

I'd spent countless hours in my youth, playing basketball. When I was at Duke, I, I worked it out so that I I upped my class load so that I could go part time my second semester senior year so I could just play basketball more.

I mean, I just I loved it. I loved it. And, so and I've, I've always been, when I would play, I was I played the point guard position. And so as a fan of the sport, I've been drawn to to point guards in general.

Just, you know, how do they play? How, you know, how is my how can I incorporate things in my game? I was so I, you know, I was a college basketball fan first and foremost. So, you know, Cameron crazy going to the games.

And what I enjoyed when I was there at Duke was just watching, you know, a player come in and go through those three, four years at the university and the team dynamics grow and, you know, just I I I love the teamwork aspect of basketball, and that's, you know, that's probably why I like the the point guard position as well because that's kind of a connector position.

But, when the pandemic hit, and the crowds were gone, College basketball was really not that enjoyable, for me, and I was a huge college basketball fan.

And then, you know, Duke had this a lot, you know, with the one and dones, and then the NIL came through or the transfer portal.

And so it's a, you know, it's a new team every every year, and I thought college basketball was just not not that good during during that little stretch after the pandemic.

I've been playing fantasy basketball for, man, I bet twenty five years now. Like like, just as the Internet was starting, me and somebody's got up a a fantasy basketball league that we kinda made on our own.

So I it's all gonna it's all gonna come full circle, so bear with me. So I've always kinda you know, I'd always followed the NBA through the lens of fantasy basketball.

So I didn't watch a lot of the games. Was more of a college basketball fan. As I became disenchanted with college basketball, then I started watching more pro basketball, more NBA ball.

And, as I began watching that, I missed having a team to root for. Right? You know, I was just college basketball, Duke fan, hardcore.

And I live in North Carolina, and there was no freaking way I was gonna root for the Hornets. I just I mean, I watched him. I saw how that team was run, you know, and, I just like, no.

I can't I'm not gonna put my time and effort into that. So it was just a lot of league pass stuff that I watched. And, man, there was this kid on the Sacramento Kings that was just, you know, his rookie year.

Watched him, and it just I don't know, man. Just caught my eye. There there have been a couple of players that I've seen play live, when I would go to do games, that just one game, and I was like, wow.

This guy so one of them is Chris Paul. Saw Chris Paul when he played for Wake Forest. He played at Duke, got to the game that I went to. And I was just like, man, this guy is just he impacts every single play of every of everything.

Like, this guy is always you know? I mean, he just I don't know. He he just jumped out at me. Kyrie Irving is the second, and I've I think he played, like, only 11 games for Duke.

But first game I saw him play, I was just like, oh, this this game is it just slows down. Like, he's playing he's in the matrix. Like, this kid is is something else. So when I saw Haliburton play, he just he just caught my eye.

Like, I couldn't really put my finger on it. You know, he just he had a I could just you could just tell watching him play that he was reading the game differently than than other people.

And, you know, he's he's just a rookie. So, you know, I I didn't have super high. It was just somebody who was on my radar.

And then just kind of following him through that in fantasy basketball, I saw what he was doing kind of at the beginning of his second year at Sacramento, and it was pretty clear that he was in a system that wasn't really working to bring out the best in him.

And at the time, I was just like, man, if this kid ever gets his own team, if he could go somewhere else to get opportunity, that that would be something.

And then I guess it was 2022, like, February maybe. You know, when the trade I'm I'm sure you're well aware. You know, the trade went down, with Sabonis going to the Kings and Halliburton going to Indiana.

I was just like, wow. Okay. This is gonna be fun to watch. You know? I just I'm gonna see what this what this guy's got. And, and then just how he performed the second I mean, just I mean, he took it up a notch right right away.

And then, you know, knowing what little bit I did about Rick Carlisle, you know, Rick Carlisle was, you know, gonna call a set every time and just, you know, kind of struck me as a coach that just kinda, really coached with a heavy hand.

And just seeing him slowly just turn over the keys to Halibut and just like, hey, dude.

You just you you call you I trust you. You know? It's just like, wow. Okay. This is something. And and so, you know, I was looking for a team, and I was he I was just starting to fall in love with how he was playing the game.

And how is it you know, I had other factors. Like, I didn't wanna be, I didn't wanna be a bandwagon person. You know? Like, oh, this team is hot. I wanna hop on the bandwagon.

I needed a East Coast team so I could actually watch the games. You know? I mean, I've got a nine year old, and, you know, I'm 54, and I just I don't have it in me like that anymore to stay up and watch games past midnight.

So, you know, all that all that stuff just kinda came together, and, it was it was weird. I've I don't know that I've ever I don't know that I've ever made a decision like this in basketball in my life to just say, hey.

This is gonna be the team that I'm gonna start cheering for. You know? But I literally made the decision. I said, alright. This is my team. This is my team. I'm gonna start following them. And I I I I love how, you made the decision.

I don't wanna be a bandwagon. And then, you know, moments later, they're in the final. That's some dumb luck, which I've been a fan my whole life, and I didn't expect that to happen last year, but here we are.

So when did you, okay. So you you jumped on board, finished out the season going into the next season. Like, when did you decide to, like, make Halliburton a part of your collecting? You remember, like, the first card or that moment?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so the you know, like I said, I was still kinda finding my way in collecting. You know, and so when Halliburton when he got traded to Indiana, that was in, you know, early twenty two.

And that was kind of right at the peak of the card market. You know, prices were just kinda were nuts. And I had enjoyed collecting, and I also PC'd Tim Duncan.

But I I'd enjoyed collecting Grant Hill, Tim Duncan, doing sets. You know? That I felt like that kept me a little bit out of the fray of just, all the, you know, all the stuff that was going on.

You know? The the frother the frothers as you guys, mentioned, in that show. I really enjoyed that. It was so many good nuggets.

But, you know, so I was like, oh, man. I you know, I really I really like watching him play, and I want to I don't really wanna like, I, you know, I did my share of speculating and stuff like that, you know, on stuff.

But what what's really interesting is I look at my collection in card ladder, and the cards that I have increased the most in value are the cards I bought because I like them.

I mean, go figure. I mean, it's like so many of the cards that I bought is like, oh, this is a good card to buy of this person at this time or this thing.

So many of those have have, at best, kind of been a wash maybe. But, but, you know, I I I was like, okay. I I really would like to collect a modern player, and this is, you know, this is my team now.

This is my guy. So how do I, you know, how do I wanna do this? And, you know, rookie cards were still you know, it was a peak of the mark market, so rookie cards were really, you know, still super hyped, I thought.

I you know, I just couldn't justify those values. And and, honestly, those cards to me didn't mean as much.

You know? Seeing Haliburton in a Sacramento Kings jersey, like, why? You know? I mean, like I mean, I get it. I get the significance of rookie cards, but, I mean, he only played there a year and a half.

You know? I mean, it's you know, that was something that was intriguing to me too. It's just, you you know, I you don't see many players that are of that level that get traded so early in their careers.

There's probably just a handful maybe, at least in basketball that I'm aware of. But, so I was thinking like, okay. You know, how how do I collect him? What do I wanna do?

And and kind of the lane that I found is I mean, I love you know, we talked about aesthetics earlier. I'm a sucker for a color match. I mean, that's just I mean, that just only enhances, whatever the design is if it's a color match.

So, you know, gold, Indiana Pacers. I mean, it's like, man, every gold is a color match. You know? I mean, it's just like you know, this is great. So I kinda hit that lane of just sorta okay.

These are gonna be you know, there there were some 21 cards of his, that had him in Pacers uniforms, And then 22, most I think all of those had him in Pacers, but that that's just kind of the lane I settled in.

And, yeah, I, and from there, it's it's just been a whole another whole another journey of just exploration.

I I think it's an interesting topic to talk about with Halliburton because it's so unique and I've been through that where I have bought his rookie cards and paid a lot for the rookie cards.

And then I realized, I don't really like these cards because he's in Kings, jersey, and I'm I'm no Association.

So, like, I don't know. Like, you said it. It's like there's not many players ever with that's of his level that, started off with the team, gets traded right away.

But, like, how do you think just with his, you know, entirety of his catalog over the course of years like, he's obviously, like, a beloved Pacers, like, Pacer player.

Like, we love him here, and, we hope he stays here for ten years or more.

How do you think it all shakes out in terms of, like, interest with his cards where he's got his rookie cards, where he spent a sliver of his career with one team, and then now he's with Indiana, you know, trying to compete for a championship every year.

Man, I mean, I think I don't know how you answer that question.

You know, it's the collecting slash investing slash speculating space is, you know, it's, it's diverse. Right? There's so many different interests of the folks who purchase cards.

You know, there are some people who are just, you know, rookie cards only, and those are the best cards. And, you know, I mean, it's it's hard to hard to argue. I mean, that is that is generally the case across the hobby.

You know, I I think I think Pacers fans, like yourself and and like me, and, they're not gonna they're gonna see what they can pay for a really nice looking, you know, significant, Halliburton card in a Pacers uniform, and then what would that be in a rookie?

And it's it's probably just not gonna make financial sense. You know? I don't I don't know.

I mean, it you know, some of it's gonna come down too to just how what does his career end up, you know, where what does he achieve? If he doesn't really, you know, take it up other notches, then, you know, I don't I don't know, man.

I I really I don't know. It's gets complicated. It is. It is. I mean, I I own so I own maybe a just a a probably no more than five Haliburton, Sacramento Kings card.

I didn't even know you owned any. I've never seen them. I don't think so. I I would say I would say my favorite you know, I'm, you know, I'm a Don Russ laser guy, and I'm a color match guy.

So I picked up early on, the purple laser, Don Russ. Yes. It's just it's just a good looking card. And I'm like, hey, man.

You know, good looking card is a good looking card. It wasn't that much money. But, yeah. So you, I guess, through your Halliburton fandom and collecting entering this new territory where you're a fan of a new team.

Like, what has that like? What have you maybe learned about just like the Pacers and just, like, the team, the culture through just the lens of, you know, entering as a Halliburton collector?

Yeah. Yeah. It's been fun. It's been really fun. I mean, I just, you know, as I said earlier, I I'm a basketball fan first and foremost.

I mean, I'm definitely a card collector, but I I just love I love the sport. And I I've tried to learn as much as I can. You know, just a a great opportunity to just take in all kinds of information and learn things.

You know, one one thing so I I would say I still really have not dug into Pacers history, very much. Right? I catch little tidbits from you when we go back and forth, and, and I appreciate the levity of your fandom as well.

You know? I'm just like, oh, the pace is every everything is great. And you're just like, oh, man. You you don't know the half.

You know? So so you you help even me out in my optimism sometimes, which I appreciate. But, you know, I I don't know a lot of the history, but, man, I mean so I watch, like, every postgame presser, after the game.

I watch almost every game, and I watch almost every postpresser. You know, usually next day on YouTube or something. But, I've loved just I love just getting to know all the people on the team, you know, all the personalities.

I mean, I just that organization, just top to bottom seems like, you know, like, as a Duke fan, and I'm sure people are sick of hearing it, but they talk about the brotherhood, at Duke.

And, I mean, there is something to that, for sure. And this this Pacers organization has just this family feel to it.

You know? I mean, it's Indiana being a basketball state or the basketball state, and just, just seeing, like, how the community embraces them and just how these guys all interact with each other and how they support each other.

I mean, it's such a egalitarian team. I mean, you look at the end of the game, and there are eight guys in double figures, probably seven at least more than not.

I mean, it just there are not many NBA teams that do that. And and all those people seem to be okay with it. You know? I mean, you got someone like I know you're a big Nimhard fan.

I mean, that kid is I think he's got a lot more than what he, gets to show on a night to night basis. But he he understands his role on the team. And he comes out, and he does it as best he can every tee every game.

And when he's gotta step up, he he's ready. It's just so, you know, I've really I've really enjoyed getting to learn the just the culture of the team and the personalities.

I'm a huge Caitlin Cooper fan. I mean, just oh, man. One of the one of the best basketball minds. So good. I mean, I just I what a treat for Pacers fans to have her as a as a fan and a resource.

I mean, just the way that she breaks down film and the and just her attention to detail and her knowledge and just the I mean, it just that that is one thing that, the NBA game is so complicated.

I mean, just the just the details and the amount of, just all the high level processing that has to happen so quickly in a game amongst the players and re and, you know, especially with the Pacers.

I mean, they're a read and react team. Right? I mean, they're not a, you know, they talk about playing random. I mean, just it requires a high basketball IQ.

And as a fan, to appreciate it, I I feel really, I feel really, inadequate in that department. You and I both. So, you know, I I I try to take in content where I can learn more about just, you know, okay.

What what are the schemes? What are the sets? What are the you know, I just hear you know, when I hear terminology, I don't know. So it it's man, it's just it's like drinking from a fire hose is you know, in this whole experience.

It's just I'm I'm learning about a player. I'm learning about a team. I'm learning about the sport, and I'm collecting cards while I'm doing it. It's just it's it's a it's a really fun integration, and it's been really rewarding.

You've you mentioned Nimhard, and I feel like the way you described like, basically, I what I heard was, like, you know, he's he's could probably do more on another team, but he's, like, playing his role, and he's playing his role really well.

And I think about a guy like Obi Toppin who also, it dude, it's like this last month, it you know, he has not stepped up in not only a big way, but, like, the biggest way where we've won games because of him because he stepped up and filled the shoes of other players who've been out.

And I you know, former first round pick, you know, not no ego in the way, just like next man up mentality.

And I think, like, what he's doing really solidifies for me. Like, this is why I love this team because of you can see stuff like this.

And so I'm curious. Like, you started following Fantasy Halliburton, and that led you all the way to becoming a pace collecting Halliburton, becoming a Pacers fan.

Have you bought any other Pacers cards in the process, or have you just stuck to Halliburton?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I bought some Nemhard cards. So I have, I have some gold rookies of his. I have, gold select, rookie of his, courtside. I don't know that I have them handy, but, oh, you know what? I think I do.

Let's see. Rodney's reaching into his treasure chest. The pay the cut catching him off guard by, preparing him and then putting a Zinger at him of cards that I wasn't expecting that to Yeah. This doesn't make for great podcast content.

I'm sitting here, Man, I'm just engrossed in this conversation with you, and it's like just me and you sitting in a room talking. I forget that there is, there is a potential, audio audience out there. So I have this.

I really like one on one, one on ones. Oh, yes, dude. Yes. What year is that? The This rookie? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, those are Why do you like why do you like Panini one on one? Oh, man. The I would call them classy cards.

Right? I mean, they are just I mean, there's nothing extra in the one and one. They, you know, the photos are generally really nice. It's a solid gold border all around, a little bit of old tops chrome feel to that.

They'll generally have some kind of little pattern in the background that you can see. There's like in this one, there are these wavy lines. You can kinda see.

It just I don't know. Every everything is just laid out. It's just a clean card. Just a really clean card. I I like I like that. I also there's his there's his, select courtside rookie. That was before the hairdo change.

Yeah. With the with the hair out. You know? Yeah. That looks like a Gonzaga Nimhard. Yeah. Yeah. Sure does. Sure does. And, his we talked about this, but his little brother was playing for Gonzaga this year.

Yeah. Somebody's got a somebody's got a draft. Don't sleep on on the little bro. I mean, you gotta at least take a swing. I mean, gosh. I mean, that you know, I think those kids have something. This is not a card that I bought a lot of.

This is the gold standard, but it's just a good looking gold card. Shiny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I got a Shep, Don Russ, Laser. I mean, man, this whole team, it's just they're so I have a I have a, courtside, select.

Oh. It just they're just really likable guys, man. They What You know? What what game which playoff game so Rodney and I, Rodney came in town, and we got a chance to grab a burger and, before one of the playoff games.

What game was it? Were you in town for? I think it was game three of the New York Knicks series. That's right. And it was oh my god, man. That I mean, I I I I've really been fortunate in my Pacers fandom.

You know? You talked about just kinda hopping in hopping in at or jumping in right at the right time. But that of all the playoff games I could have picked to go to, I I mean, I I was, so I was sitting, and you educated me on this.

I I was in the club level. I know what the club level is now, but I was the front row behind all the cameras, there at center court. So I just kinda treated myself. I flew out there by myself.

I bought a ticket, you know, plane ticket of a hotel room and just came out for just the game. And I I got a seat right behind the the cameras there, half court. And it was last possession, and I just I was like, okay.

Took my camera out, and I put it on video, and I just held it on my chest, and I watched the play unfold. And as you and I both know, that was the pass, to to Nimhard at three, bobbled it, regathered, you know, way out there.

I mean, probably a 30 footer. I don't know. And just drilled it for the game winner. I mean, it was just it was unreal.

Unreal. And against the Knicks. I mean, it was just, it it was it was fantastic. The only one in recent memory, and I've been going to games my whole life, and that that moment sits very high, if not at the top for me.

And the only one that I can think of in the modern era to compare to that was against the Knicks when Roy Hibbert blocked Carmelo Anthony, which I just saw the Carmelo Anthony's going to the hall of fame much deserved, but that was another moment that stood out.

So it's like, dude, you you are timing I need your investment advice on these cards because maybe I could be rich one day because you're hitting all the Pacers marks at the exact right time, which is amazing.

Yeah. I'm not sure I'm doing it with cards, but, I definitely have done it with Pacers fandom. And I don't know, man. I mean, I think if I take my pick, that would be my pick.

Let's let's let's talk about some of your we talked about some of the others as a setup. And I meant to mention this, but when we get done when we got done with, our meal, we're walking and it's game day.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've been we see Ben Shepper walking up to the Starbucks window to get a coffee. You look at me, and I was like, yep. That was Ben Shepper right there.

Yeah. You know, those moments catch you so off guard. You know? It was just like, I was like, man, I think that and I looked over at you, and I and you're you gave me the look, and I was like, okay. That is him. Yes.

Yep. Yeah. It was fun. It was fun. I mean, it's just such a such a likable group of guys. You know? I mean, just you talked about Obi Toppin earlier, man. I mean, just what a likable guy. I mean, just and he's just insanely athletic.

I mean, when he got the the ball got, caught at the top of the backboard, but on that medal, and he just kinda walked up there and jumped and knocked it off like it was like, he was just getting his lunch off the table.

I mean, it was just it was it's fun thing fun thing. Well, I'm excited to maybe get hit the highlights of your some of your Halliburton collection. I know you've got some bangers in there.

And, definitely, there's one card in particular that I know just when I think about you and your collection, one stands out. But maybe let's let's Yeah. Why don't you share some of your favorites? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Should I do that one first, or should I, It's your it's hey. You you curate for the for us. You you go Yeah. Do however you want it. Well, I mean, I'm guessing you're talking about this card here, which is That is the card.

Yeah. This is the the 2022 Black Prism one zero one, which I I think is I know. It it's the absolute favorite card in my entire collection, and it's probably the card to it's Halliburton's best.

I think it's Halliburton's best card, and I know we talked about the the kings of it all, and the market would say his black rookie is. But for me, that would be the card right there.

Man, I I don't disagree with you. It's you know so I, you know, I told you I'd you know, I was doing golds, color match, that kinda thing. Well, the black also kinda happens to be a color match.

I mean, you know, it's, it's dark blue uniform there, but, I mean, it is almost indistinguishable. Yeah. And then the gold accents. I mean, it you know, to me, with the way I collect, this is Halliburton's rookie Pacers card.

Right? Mhmm. It's his first year. So this is 2022. So 2021, Prism did not have Halliburton in a Pacers uniform. There is a, Chronicles Prism 2021 that does have him in a Pacers uniform.

That's tricky territory. Yes. But it it's it's cool card, and it there's something special about that. But but this card, like I said, I I consider this to be his Pacers rookie card.

It's color match. It is one zero one. And it's just I mean, I I know everyone has their favorite years of prism, but this is this is probably the cleanest, in my opinion, of all the prism designs.

Like, just, you know, nothing really extra, you know, no none of the slanted stuff, none of the dimples.

I mean and those are things that are iconic to to Prism. You know, he does you know, has him just kinda I I love the way on the Prism cards, they'll take the the player silhouette, and they'll they'll layer that on top of the design.

So the ball comes out, his head comes out. You know? I love I love all those things.

It's got ridiculous shine to it. And question for you, when when does Panini lose their basketball Prizm license? I I heard it's in October of this year. So is is 2024 the last year of Prizm basketball, or will there be a 2025?

I I feel I've heard so many conflicting reports. I'm under the impression that that 2024 is the last year, and I think there's another year of football based on the calendar.

But Uh-huh. Don't quote me on that. When I try to, like, figure out the calendar, my brain, like Yeah. My brain wants to explode. So I I'm not Yeah. Yeah. Your life. Yeah. Okay. Alright.

So let let's take that and and go with it then. So you've got 2022 Halliburton in a Pacers uniform, 2023, and 2024. That's it. That's it. Three black one on ones Halliburton baser uniforms for that are licensed, for all of time.

So, yeah, man. It's I I've I'm super fortunate. I mean, just, in the way I've been talk about how you how you how you got access to it, how that all shows up? Oh, gosh. I mean alright.

So Instagram, you know, most collectors who listen to this are are probably on Instagram. I, you know, I am kind of I've been real spotty with just posting stuff. My my partner Deborah is out of town celebrating her fiftieth right now.

So I've been posting a lot since she's been out of town because I get the I've noticed. Get the daughter down to bed. I'm like, okay. Now I can just devote some time to I mean, I I don't know.

I'm I'm a little particular in how I photograph and how I like to organize stuff on my page. So it it takes more time than it maybe should. But, but I'm checking it every day, but I don't really have a method for checking Instagram.

And I rarely go through the stories, but, you know, you'll see story sales on there sometimes and stuff. You know, and I'm constantly trying to connect with, the I don't I haven't come across a lot of Halliburton collectors.

And, you know, it's a question I have for you that we can maybe talk about later is just, you know, for player collecting, you know, connecting with a community and people who collect that player is one way to find cards.

But seems like a lot of the cards that are that I have, good cards that I've gotten of his have kinda gone through the hands of people who seem to be the first ones to be able to grab these high level cards and then are looking to move them, you know, pretty quickly.

So I'm going through my Instagram stories one day.

I mean, I this card was never on my radar. Just just not something I thought I would ever have a chance at or or own or anything. And I'm going through the stories, and I'm just like, wait.

What what is that? What is that? Oh my god. That is the black one of one. This is holy shit. Like, this guy wait. It's for sale? Holy shit. Okay. And I I mean, I I don't I I'm I'm not sitting back.

Like, I've got this money put away to make this purchase. I'm looking for this black one zero one. It just comes out. You know? And, I was just like, god. So I start thinking, like, oh, wait.

I okay. I know I want this card, but do I want it that you know, as bad as this? I don't know. I I just had to start thinking through it. You know? I just I was not mentally prepared. Reached out to the guy, told me what he was asking.

I was just like, wow. Okay. That's a lot of money. Never paid that much for a card before. Let me see what I can move. You know? And this is before, like, love the show you did with Wharf Sports Cards.

That what a great run, man. I I look forward to whatever is next from that, but enjoyed that. But this is before so, anyway, this is before I knew about, funding of cards, like, through his service and other stuff.

So I wasn't aware of that. And by the time I got back to him and just was like, okay. I'm just gonna figure out how to make this work. He had sold it. And, I was just like, man. Okay. So I just I let that sit with me.

I talked to my buddy, Mark, who's been a long time collector. I mean, he's he's collected since we were kids. I mean, his in his collection is insane. He's lots of vintage stuff, and he's seen it all in the marketplace.

You know? And, you know, he got a big chuckle when the market ran up and, you know, what things are going for and, you know, 92 top Shaq rookies going for crazy prices, all this stuff.

Anyway, I talked with him. And, you know, he just he didn't seem to be against it. You know? He was just like, man, it sounds like a card you really want.

You know? You just gotta figure out if you wanna make it happen. And and I was like, yeah. You know what, man? I'm not I'm not gonna give up on this because it just after a couple of days, I just I couldn't let it go.

It's just like, no. No. No. No. So I reached back out to the guy, and I said, hey. Would you mind telling me who you sold this card to? And he he responded right away, told me, and I said, okay. Sensitive question.

But would you mind telling me what you sold it for? He told me right away. And I was like, okay. So I reached out to the guy who bought it, and I said, it was Orange Dog Trading. I don't know. Yeah. I think you maybe follow him.

And, you know, sent him a DM telling him, you know, the whole, you know, collector, dah, dah, dah. Nothing. Crickets. Crickets. And, you know, couple more messages. Nothing. And, and I reached back out again.

It's like, hey, man. Not trying to bother you, but I but I am I am I seriously want this card, and I and I know that you oftentimes will purchase and then sell card shortly after. If you get wanna get rid of this card, I'm very serious.

I and I have a good idea of what you paid for it, and I'm willing to give you a percentage on top of that if you wanna let it go. And he reached back out to me and said, hey. What are you thinking? I told him. He was like, yep.

Sounds fair. Love to see it go to a collector. Let's do it. And deal was done. And I just I mean, I still to this day, dude, I cannot believe it. Yeah. Per per that is a story of persistence paying off and landing just a Hallmark card.

Incredible, dude. I'm I'm I'm I'm excited that that card is in your collection, and at least every now and again, I can take a peek at it and be like, that's a really cool card.

Thanks. What are what are some what are some of the other Halliburton cards you wanna hit before we we get out of here? Yeah, man. I've got I've got just a few here of Halliburton.

One one of the cool things about just kind of sort of indiscriminately buying, you know, the golds of Haliburton is that I've been able to come across different, brands of cards and designs that I might not have really paid attention to.

Noir is one that I really have really, no and it depends on the year and the design. There's some of it that's a bit too much.

I mean, you know, it's a lot of art deco stuff. But, like, this this card right here, this is the twenty twenty twenty two gold metal frame, Halliburton. Mhmm. But, you know, again, it's Such a clean looking card. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. So it's in that clean design realm. Just these real thin, super shiny golds and just cool cool pose and then got the Pacers, you know, logo and stuff behind them. And then Are you gonna talk about the one of one, the combo?

Yeah. How how could I how could I I wish I wish this had a cool story. Like, I wish this was, you know, I got this one here, and then I saw this one there. It's weird, man. There is there is this seller from China that I bought it from.

It was already together? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And and not only that, but they're, like, they're, like, five or six other players that they had them together that there's Oh my god.

Either sold or selling. I don't know how that happens. And like I said, I mean, it's a it's really about the worst story I could tell, and, you know, I got these two one on ones that fit together, but I don't really care.

I love it. It's really cool. I mean and I didn't even know how to buy I mean, I would say, individually, if I bought these cards individually, I probably way overpaid for what I would have bought either one of these for individually.

But just the upper and I'm sure this is what they they probably knew is the opportunity to have both of these together is pretty phenomenal.

So there's the there's the Icon Edition one of one, and this is you know, it's they call it the platinum. So you got this teal refractor here.

Yeah. And that's, that's Halliburton, you know, in the away jersey. And then you got the association edition one zero one, which is Haliburton in a home jersey, and each one of them have half of the Pacers logo.

And then, you know, when you put them together, you can see the complete Pacers logo. I mean, I have them in the I have them in the, mag holders.

But when they're side by side, there's a little offset, which is annoying to me. You either have to line up the tops and bottoms of the card or you have to line up the logo, but it's it's damn near perfect.

So I love that. And then I just recently purchased, you know, gold vinyls. People I mean, I was peeking I was peeking at that one. I was like, did I?

I'm glad you ended up with it because I was like, that I've not I had a few people I know what you're gonna share. I had a few people send it to me, and I it was like one of those ones where I was like, that looks really cool.

And it was just, like, you know, distracted. Didn't really get the time to, like, sink in, but I was like, that's a really cool card. And then I saw it on your page, and I was like, I'm glad he got it.

Yeah, man. Yeah. You know, fortunately, you and I have not gone head to head as far as No. Very many of these. But, you know, just gold vinyl as a name and a and a and a design has just a mystique and prestige in the hobby.

The you know, if I were gonna own a gold vinyl, this would not be my top pick. But, but this NBA hoops twenty twenty four one zero one gold vinyl, I mean, I'm I'm kinda secretly a hoops fan as well.

Mhmm. You know, it's just a brand that's been around for a while, knows what it is, occasionally puts out some really cool inserts.

And, you know, just as a the gold vinyl I mean, you know a gold vinyl as soon as you you know, no one has to tell you, oh, here's a gold vinyl.

You can tell by the pattern. And, you know, just the gold, dark blue, very classic. Nothing extra. You know? I mean, almost almost like a pedestrian gold vinyl of sorts.

And, you know, and it was priced accordingly. But I don't know, man. There's just there's something about that. It's almost like there's a gold vinyl haze over the whole card when you look at it.

Yeah. I just, I I really dig it. And then I would say my last one. You you know, this was this was kinda the first Halliburton card that I bought that I was really excited about.

This is yeah. So this is 2021, immaculate, and it's the shadow box auto. So one of one of the, you know, one of the releases that came out later in 2021, so they were able to get him in a Pacers uniform.

And just the the foil on this card is just in the also some just real thin, gold refractor line. Like, you just oh my god. The shine on this card even and I love acetate. I love acetate cards. I love and I love clear acetate.

So, you know, this the the dark blue on this acetate is still also really shiny. And then you've got this clear window and then this kinda, you know, this, second level behind it, you know, the shadow box design.

And so you see the shadow of his auto, which is real crisp. I mean, it's hard. There are a lot of streaky autos of his out there. And you also see just the silhouette shadow when you turn it.

It's it's one of those cards that just in hand looks way better than and the and the photos look good, but, that that was probably I would say that was one of the first five cards that I purchased, and, I I was real patient.

I had seen non gold versions come up, and a lot of them had chipping on them or skipped auto.

And, you know, early on, I was really particular. You know? Like and I'm still particular about certain things, but I was, you know, I was really I wasn't fully in.

But when I got that card in hand, I was like, oh, man. This is gonna be fun. This is this is good stuff. Incredible collection. Love, you talking us through just why you like each of those cards.

You know, you you have an interesting story, which it's not, like, completely unique, but a lot of people collect it, gravitate to a player, collect that player, and then become fans of that team.

Maybe, like, what what advice would you give maybe to anyone who's, like, thinking about making that move now, whether it's, you know, they're a football fan, but they do fantasy basketball and have gravitated to a couple players, but just haven't quite made the jump yet?

Like, what sorts of words of wisdoms would you share to anyone who's maybe in a similar spot to where you were a couple years ago?

Yeah. I I don't know that I have any words of wisdom, but I can speak to my experience and and why this was why this has been enjoyable for me and and maybe for someone else.

You know, like I said, I came at it, as a fan of the sport first, and, it has been a nice compliment to really enjoying the sport, right, and watching the growth and and feeling additionally invested in it.

You know? Not just I'm a fan, but, you know, and and not on a you know? I'm not looking to flip anything, so it's like, oh, he's had a shitty run or shitty game or he's injured. You know?

It just if you're gonna you know, for me, if if I'm gonna invest in a current player, and really, really put myself into it and put my time and effort into it, It's gotta be a player that I enjoy watching play that I and that I like.

You know? I like his personality. I I enjoy watching him play. And so, you know, I would say just, you know, if it just, you know I mean, for me, it's you know, for me, it was more almost intuition.

Right? It's, you know, I didn't sit down and make spreadsheets or I didn't you know, it wasn't super calculated kinda thing.

It's just like, oh, man. This is and and I, you know, the other advice I would give is just take take your time, right, and sorta let the process evolve.

So, you know, once once you think, oh, this is someone I wanna, you know, I wanna invest in, well, you know, don't just maybe throw everything at it right away.

You know, dip your toe in and and kinda have a a you know, figure out what what you you want it to be for you and start headed in that direction, and then just kinda reassess as you go through.

I mean, you may find like, you know what? I've watched this guy play for half a season, and, you know, I don't like him so much.

Or you may say, okay. Well, this is my favorite team, but, gosh, this is this is somebody I really enjoy playing, and I think I like you know? And I've really fallen in love with this brand or this this design.

I mean, I you know, there's there's all sorts of things. And and now it's a real interesting time if you're looking to collect a new player because it's a you know, all the cards are about to turn over to to a whole new manufacturer.

And for me and my collecting journey, and I I it's a real interesting time. You know?

It's gonna be the wild, wild west when, they start putting out non fanatics license cards. What I mean, it's just starting all over again. And, and then also trying to figure out where do I wanna button things up on the penny end.

Yeah. It's a really exciting time, but just not not something completely new to me in my collecting experience that's that's coming up, and and maybe for a lot of collectors.

So may a couple more quick ones, and then we'll we'll get out of here. But I don't know if you got a chance to hear this yet, and this is the part of the the show where we maybe hype up our guy a little bit.

I I I'm not sure there's been too many players. Well, the the the stars in the top top end of the league, Jokic, SGA, like, you know, those guys, they're having incredible seasons.

It's on another level. But in terms of risers in this back half, no one's no one's risen like Halliburton.

I think you can speculate. Is he just healthy? Whatever. But, like, you know, going from where he started with at the beginning of the season to where he is now where he's just Yeah.

Insane to watch. Now there is it's like people are finally talking about him again, and now there's a speculation of well, okay.

Look at what Halliburton's done. Like, is Halliburton all NBA again this season? So two final questions. Is Halliburton all NBA? And then second, what's your expectation for this play pay Pacers playoff run?

Okay. Is he all NBA? I mean, you know, it's hard for me to answer this objectively, Brett. I don't want I don't I don't I I I I just I want you to gas it up a little bit.

Yeah. So yeah. I mean, of course. Yeah. I think he's all NBA. You know? I mean, it's he got off to a slow start. And that's you know, once that gets in people's minds I mean, you know, this is all in the hands of the voters.

So once that gets in people's minds, it's you gotta do some work to turn that around. But, I mean, what what he does from, you know, not only, you know, not so much scoring, but just team optimization.

I mean, he makes all the players on his team better around him. And this this run he is on with double digit assists and, like, one turnover, I mean, it is just I mean, some of it is record setting and historic.

I mean, just he's at, like, I mean, over a over a stretch since the all star or since the the New Year.

I mean, he's at, like, a he's, like, at 11 something assist to turnover ratio or something. I mean, it's not when you're being compared to John Stockton, you're doing something right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I mean, it's just, you know, he I I think he's a unique player in the NBA as well, which makes it hard to to assess him, relative to other players.

What what's it been like for you as a fan? And I just try to, like, avoid it. But, dude, there's there's no, like, superstar caliber player who gets more shit than Halliburton.

And it's almost like I I hear it and I see it, and it's almost like Yeah. Do you even watch the game? It's like the team optimization thing you mentioned. It's like Yeah.

You're obviously not watching the games. But but, like, what is your read seeing? Because he he has a ton of haters. He does. I mean, I I will say as much as I like him, I'm I'm on the fence about his style of trash talking.

You know? He he doesn't carry the same swagger throughout the game sometimes. And sometimes he does when things have just gone right, he really starts to amp it up. And you know what?

A little bit? Yes. Yeah. You know? I mean, I I'm gonna have to say it. You know? And so if you're not a Halliburton fan and your team is playing against him, I could see that being really freaking annoying. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, you hate on him. But he also is just impossible to deal with. You know? And he's, he's just a he's a lot to handle. And so what he does and the the way he does it is kinda humiliating sometimes for the for the other players.

I mean, I so I can see the haters, but I I will tell you, man, I've been, more than for the, for as long as I've been following the Pacers, which is not very long, but I'm hearing the most people on podcast that I listen to, whether it's Windhorse or Zack Lowe or Ringer or all those people.

I'm hearing more and more people and even on national TV, they've had more national TV games this year, so that's been good exposure.

I'm hearing more and more people kind of this don't sleep on the Pacers kinda thing. Like so nobody wants to give him or them their full props yet, and I get that. But there are more people who are kind of now saying, maybe.

Maybe. So that leads me into your question about the playoffs. I mean, Eastern Conference finals last year, magical run. Some things went our way. I I can't say that I expect that this year.

That would be silly to expect it. But would you say the team is better right now than it was last year? 100%. One hundred %. Hands down. I mean, first of all, we got we got Siakam last year in January.

Right? That half a year with the team, and he wasn't fully integrated then. I mean, and how they use him now versus how they used him then, how the other people have developed.

I mean, you know, Jeris Walker, bless him. I mean, a lot of players would have gotten frustrated and just, you know, been angry at the coach or whatever.

I mean, it speaks a lot to the culture that that guy goes and plays a mad ants game in the middle of the week, comes back and plays for the Pacers.

You got Neesmith who's just somehow gotten even better. I just I thought he had hit his ceiling last year. I mean, it's a it's a young team. I mean, Halliburton's twenty five. Nimhard is god.

He's in his I mean, he was a, you know, three or four year guy in college, but he's only been around a couple year. I mean, it just I mean, it just there's so many things that are better about this team. They're playing better defense.

They are they're winning games in the in the clutch. They're beating the teams they should be. Yeah. I mean, they they're much better positioned. I feel very confident that they can give any team in the NBA a run over seven games.

And so when it's just do or die like that and these guys have time to prep and if everybody can be healthy, I mean, I don't think anything's out of the question for this team.

I do not expect them to be Eastern Conference finalists this year, but I would not at all be surprised if they ran the whole Eastern Conference and were in the finals.

And I I mean, you know, that's just that's just me as a Pacers fan and what I think about this team. You're getting me excited for the playoffs. We the Pacers have clinched.

We got seven more Yeah. To go before we hop in, and it'll be here, sooner than we probably can even expect it. But, Roddy, it's been so much fun to learn about you as a collector, your Pacers fandom, and Halliburton and everything else.

This was a ton of fun, man. Looking forward to doing a get down the road. Yeah, man. And, hopefully, I see you back in Indianapolis when I come out for a second round of the playoffs.

That would that would mean good things are happening. Yes. Yeah, man. Thanks for having me on, man. Just just a blast. I've I've enjoy really enjoyed it, man. Go Pacers, boom, baby. Alright. Take care, bud.