Welcome back, loyal listeners of the stacking slabs podcast to season two episode 10 of the WNBA card podcast.

My name is Caitlin. I go by at cold lunch cards on the Instagram machine and everywhere else on the Internet, And I'm joined by my incredible cohost, Brett McGrath at stacking slabs.

And we're excited to continue to deliver collector driven community focused content to your headphones, speakers, car, wherever you're listening today.

We're excited to have you here. Brett, how are you doing today? I'm well. We are when this goes live, you know, the playoffs will literally be the next day.

So we're gearing up at the time of the recording. It the field is not quite set, but it'll be set by the time this goes live. So, yeah, I'm well. Good sports seasons right now. You got WNBA playoffs, NFL kicking off college football.

It it feels good, to be here, and, also, I'm excited. There was a moment there where I was like, I don't know if my team is going to make the playoffs, but they're gonna be in the playoffs.

And as we record this, it appears that it's going to be against the Atlanta Dream, which is not an easy opponent.

But you know what? It's the playoffs in three games. Anything can happen. So how how our teams actually play tonight. We've got a fee here in Indianapolis as we're recording it.

Probably, putting them some shots in the gym right now. But how are you doing, Caitlin? I'm doing well. I saw, BC and Atlanta Smith were at your, your restaurant milk milk tooth that you recommended to me.

They were there last night having or last brunch yesterday. I was like, oh, I've been there. That's Brett's spot. So, yeah, I saw they were there.

Hopefully, Indy's treating my players nice. I guess I'm excited for the game, but at the same time, I've kind of been a little checked out from the lengths given that we clinched so early. These games just don't mean it's just a fact.

They just don't mean as much, and players are resting. And you can tell we're kind of keeping, some place close to the heart, and we're not really revealing too much in anticipation of the playoffs.

So it's been a it's been kind of a weird limbo slash purgatory feeling as a Lynx fan where it's like, I've got all this hype, but it's just like being bottled up inside of me, and I'm just waiting for the playoffs to start.

So that's how I'm feeling. Yeah. It's it's it's a pretty good spot to be in, where you're casually watching until things get serious. But, yeah, it's playoff time. This seat we've been doing this podcast all season. How about that?

It feels good. I I feel like it's enhanced my own viewing experience, and it's also made me appreciate just how much goes into, sports media in general, but especially in the WNBA. I feel like now I pick up on all these little things.

I've got, like, a folder saved that's, like, WNBA content. I'm like, wow. I've become a different person, but I love it. I'm I'm so enthralled. I'm a big fan, and I feel like my my fandom has only grown.

You and I both, that's the power of content, and thank you everybody here for being along for the ride. I know we've got a fun show planned today, so I'm excited to get into it.

But I'm gonna kick it over to you to talk, about, our sponsor. Yeah. Shout out to our sponsor, Great Lakes Trading Cards, located off Randolph Ave in Saint Paul, Minnesota, my city.

Lots of WNBA selection, both singles and boxes available. I also saw they posted they have PWHL boxes for sale, which are a hot commodity around here in the state of hockey.

And and just a little story here is I visited, Great Lakes last Thursday for some Thursday night football viewing with a couple card friends to prep for the show, which will be happening at the time of this release.

Let me just say this. Sitting in the card shop, my local card shop with friends, talking about WNBA cards, watching the first game of the NFL season, my poster is on the wall of the WNBA card podcast.

Little me was so excited. If you would have told childhood me that that was happening, it was kind of a a cool moment.

And we had pizza, drinks, and beer. It was just incredible. And with all that being said, everyone, support your local card shop, especially if it's Great Lakes Trading Cards Co.

In Saint Paul. I love it. I love the picture being posted. That was a good usually, you know, you open up Instagram, you scroll, and you're, like, avoiding stuff to find someone posting a card.

But I opened up that that day, whatever it was Thursday, and I just saw you poke kinda next to the poster.

I'm like, that's great. So we appreciate Great Lakes. Just been an awesome sponsor, and they're, I'm excited about that relationship.

And, obviously, we'll probably recap the show next week. So lots going on. Absolutely. Well, let's get into it, Brett. I'm excited about the topics that you put forth for this week, so I'll hand it off to you.

I'm excited too. So, if you listen to other stacking slabs content properties, one like, an underlying theme in a majority of my content has to do with the psychology of collecting.

I think about this a lot, and we have talked about it a little bit here and there on the WNBA card podcast, but I wanted to zoom in and make it a central, focus for today's conversation.

And maybe starting here, and this isn't everyone. I hate making general statements.

There are many of you out there that exclusively and only collect WNBA cards, and you've always collected that way. But the reality for many of us, myself included, is that it has not always been just about collecting WNBA cards.

For me, it's been, let me collect other sports that I'm super passionate about, and then it's kinda been, oh, WNBA is over here.

Let me learn about that. And I think about that, and I I ask myself the questions like, why did I start collecting the WNBA cards?

What are the reasons? And I just think, like, that is a fun thought exercise to dig into. And there's certainly hurdles with any niche, and I wanna talk about those hurdles.

But I also wanna talk about and Caitlin, this will be great to get your perspective, but the so much of the way the hobby is presented and collecting is presented is from the lens of male athletes.

You know, it's undeniable that we're there have always been female athletes.

There have always been. But recently, you know, it feels like the playing field between, like, the two groups, males and females, are getting a little more evening even.

Obviously, it's still, there's prom sports media, all the content collecting. It revolves around kind of the male athlete for the most part, and I wanna, like, dig into that a little bit, and then maybe stop here and get your reaction.

But this question that when I was putting this deck together, I think that a lot of collectors wrestle with who are considering collecting WNBA.

But it's like, the question is, why would I spend money on female athletes when I could buy the sure thing in the NBA, NFL, or baseball cards?

And I think that question is a question that I think a lot of collectors go go through as they're processing. And maybe it prevents them from taking the leap and joining this category of collecting that's so diverse.

There's so much passion and has been honestly, like, one of the more motivating, elements for me as a collector that's, always looking for new excitement and energy, in 2025. So, yeah, psychology of collecting WNBA cards.

I just, like, was trying to set the table a little bit for that, but wanna get your response and reaction before we dig into it. It's very interesting. We're coming at this from two different perspectives.

I'm a younger woman in the hobby, and you're more of a a seasoned, man vet in the hobby. So it's very interesting to hear the kinds of questions that maybe you had to grapple with as you enter in a new segment.

The question that you posed about why would I spend money here as opposed to here, it's very interesting because I've I've never once had that thought.

I've never thought to myself, how do I justify spending money on, female cards or cards of women as opposed to the alternative?

I think, actually, it's always been how do I find these cards, and how do I find people that agree with me that this this is my default?

And it's it's it's about finding finding those people. And so it's interesting to hear the different perspectives, and I think it's so important to talk about it because if we look at other lanes, these questions aren't being asked.

They aren't asking why should I spend my cards on MBA as opposed to WNBA?

Like, that's never a question that crosses the mind of MBA collectors. So to put ourselves here and really start to think about the psychology behind it is something I'm excited about.

And I think the main messaging, that I kinda get as a reaction to our, setting the table of the intro today is that the default is men and male athletes and the default in life is men and males, and that's what it's made like, what life is made for and what the hobby is made for.

And that the WNBA goes goes against that grain, and that collectors that are doing that have to be intentional about it, and they have to be, passionate about it in order to do so.

It's not just given to you on a silver platter of, here's all the WNBA care cards. Here's all the WNBA games.

Here's all the WNBA content. You have to be much more, thoughtful and intentional about curating that. And that's what makes me so excited about this segment is that, everybody that's here wants to be here, and we're excited to be here.

And we're passionate, and, I'm just excited to get into the what's driving that kind of collecting. So this this is gonna happen.

Your response kinda brought up in my mind, like, it might make sense. And I've shared this before, but, you know, pre me having children, I was following the WNBA and watching the WNBA, but I had never considered collecting WNBA.

And I don't even know why. It just wasn't even a thought. But for me and everyone's got a different avenue into WNBA collecting. For me, I'm a dad of two. My kids are almost two, almost four, both girls. I got another girl on the way.

When I when I we my wife was pregnant with our oldest, who's almost four, I just would always consider, like, may maybe in my mind earlier, I I I had this vision of, like, having a son and, like, being able to collect cards with him and introduce him to the hobby.

But I started, like, knowing I was having a daughter, I started running that same thing. I was like, I hope this is an opportunity.

And then I got down the rabbit hole of being like, well, like, shouldn't there be some female representation in my collecting collection so that when we do get to that point, which I'm sure many listeners out there with their children get to that point, and I can't wait to get to that point.

I mean, my daughter's already talking about collecting items, which is, sorry, Jolene.

It's it's in the blood. It's it's a slippery slope, but I think about that in, like, immediately, my my mind went to, well, let me go down this WNBA card path, and I'm so happy I did.

So I wanted to just, like, share that experience as we're diving into this topic just so listeners know, like, maybe the angle in my avenue, for coming into, the space and then doing a podcast with Caitlin every day.

Yeah. It's really special.

Right? It's those connections that bring us to the to Hobby and to the certain segments and that keep us here. And I think the staying power in the WNBA, it's very sticky. Once you're here, it's hard to get out. Yes. Yes. I love that.

That's such a great point. And, so let's start here with, like, the perception gap. And I I try not to, like, reread, like, thoughts about what we're gonna talk about, but, like, I read your thought here, and I was like, okay.

This is this is good. The the thought process and the history of the hobby always is, like, there's a long history of people collecting men's cards and, you know, NBA cards and MLB cards and football cards and hockey cards.

And the thought process is like, you know, it's just what we've always collected.

This is what, you know, this is what you collect. Look at the history. But, like, I think you made a point. Like, there's there's been women's sports cards for a a very long time too.

They just haven't been a part of, like, the top conversation of, like, content back at back in the day. All of these things. So All of these content mediums that are led by men collecting men.

So, of course, it would not be there. Right? Like Cook. Cook. It's true, though. Like, it's just I wrote in the notes. I think what Brett probably was giggling at is my note that said men just weren't paying attention.

And so I think that's the point. And now it's kind of hard to ignore the WNBA's footing in the hobby as it makes waves, and we'll get more into that.

But I think that, you know, the big the big point for me here is that, we're really increasing, the awareness of the league in terms of a hobby, and I think that, you know, that's really powerful.

And so why why don't you continue with the questions that you had here? I was just excited to talk about that. Yeah.

I wanna ask a question, though, that's not on the not on our sheet, but, like, it it do you find that do you observe that because this category is growing, inevitably I mean, listen to the season two of the WNBA card podcast for, like, the first, you know this whole maybe every episode I've shared data that supports the growth of this category.

Mhmm. But it also feels like there's such a loud there's so many loud voices that are in opposition of what's happening over here who aren't collecting this stuff.

But it's almost like and I read it, and I I'm a studier of, human behavior. I'm the studier of words.

I'm I obsess over this stuff. But, like, I I observe this constantly, and I'm like, one of my thought process is always just like, okay. Especially if it's, like, people providing commentary over a category that they don't collect in.

And it just it feels like people are people feel threatened. People feel threatened when something else outside of whatever they collect goes up.

And it's almost, like, even more threatened when it's a female on that card because that's not people like, some individuals can't wrap their head around how could someone pay this much for a basketball card with a with a woman on it.

And so that I might be overthinking it, but when I read and hear and see, that's what I'm that's what one collector and that collector is myself, that's what I'm processing. Yeah.

I had a a little segment written down about this exact thing, which is that I think that those people, these doubters, I suppose, the naysayers, it's it's usually external participants, meaning folks that are not watching the WNBA, folks that are not in the WNBA card market.

And quite honestly, they're usually folks that don't want to be. And I think that tells you everything you need to know about their opinion is that and that is what it is.

It's an opinion, and it usually, you know, it's wrong. It's it's not true that it's not growing. It's not true that nobody collects it. You know, all these myths that we'll get into.

And I think that that's that's the interesting part is that sometimes the loudest people are just shouting into the void just hoping that you kind of just interact with it and respond to it.

And, I see the same things. I see those messages. And luckily, I see much more of the positive things. And that and that's the important part is that these folks that are loud, they're gonna be loud no matter what.

And and it's our job to kind of just make sure to keep moving steadily along and create that environment where folks don't feel, excluded by that kind of tone and and messaging and that we're gonna be here no matter what.

I think the WNBA has done a good job of that, and I think cards especially have have proven their spot, like I said, in the hobby.

It takes a while to get to the point where I am right now as a collector. And, Caitlin, I think you share in, like, this approach where it's about collecting for ourselves, and it's about independent thinking.

It's about seeing categories, seeing sets, seeing cards, seeing players that we have a connection with or we see something in that individuals don't.

And so the question that I wrote down, which I think is a huge roadblock for a lot of people, and and if you're listening to this and that what we I just said resonates with you, that might seem normal, but that, I don't think, is the majority of the hobby.

So many people are observing and just following trends and following what other people are doing.

So the question I have, just in reflection, was do you collect for validation from other collectors, or do you collect because the cards actually mean something to you?

And I think that's, like, an essential collect or essential question, but I wanted to bring it to the table here because I feel like when we're talking about a category that is not only a niche category, emerging category, but also a category that your the the individuals on the card aren't the the same gender as majority of everything else you collect.

I think that's something that's a question I just felt like would be good to air out and kinda get your reaction to.

Yeah. It's funny when we talk about kind of the stigma and that question that you asked in reflection of, like, validation from other collectors.

It's like, once you say these things out loud, like, remove yourself from the interwebs of it all and the story posts of it all. And just ask yourself, do I care what card collector 1 56297810?

Like, you go down the list quite literally. Do I really care what these people think? And it's like, you can ask them for advice. You can look to them for understanding trends like you were saying.

But if you're asking yourself for validation from somebody on the Internet about what piece of cardboard you should buy, probably should take a different different look at the card that you're buying and think about it from more of an internal perspective.

And I think that that's really important.

And in WNBA cards, we've, as WNBA collectors, been forced to think about that a lot and to just steady the course, stay true to the collect to the players that we like and sets that we like, and ignore that kind of noise outside because it doesn't affect it.

At the end of the day, when I have my WNBA cards sitting in my case and I bring them out for a Lynx playoff game, just look at them while they're playing, that brings me my joy.

And that's what I wanna be be focused on is, cementing these players in a sort of legacy where I can remember them through moments and through cards. And it's not about what whoever on the Internet has to say about it.

And I think that's just so important to say that out loud because when you say it out loud, it sounds so silly to seek validation from somebody else about something that you're putting your hard earned money into and you just wanna enjoy from a very, like, innocent, like, innocent place of, like, most of us started collecting as kids, and this is just a way to express our fandom.

I think when we really say it out loud and and really grapple with the fact that this is an individual hobby that just has a sense of community wrapped within it. I think we just need to recognize that, this is this is for us.

It's not for anybody else. Collecting is for yourself and and for finding those people that understand that as well just enhances that experience. Oh, I like the way the direction this is the direction this is going, Caitlin.

That's that's a very clip worthy sound bite there. So let's talk about some motivations. So maybe kinda just unpacking what really drives someone to collect a BMBA cards. Obviously, like, these are my perceptions.

This might not these might not be yours, but Mhmm. I'm trying to think about this from the lens of, like, generally, my observations. And, again, like, this isn't an exhaustive list, but I thought I think about just, like, nostalgia.

I think about, representation. I think about, discovery of finding something new, new sets. I I'm I'm like I've shared this a lot, but, like, I shared the story about my daughter.

That was a reason. But then, also, like, my my whole world professionally has always been in the startup space where it's like, I wanna work on something from the ground floor.

I wanna be involved in something from the ground floor and just try to try to grow with it.

And I don't know. Like, I'm not the first person. There's certainly an incredible foundation of awesome collectors who've been collecting WNBA forever.

But when I'm looking at the broader hobby, like, it just feels like there's still time to get on in from the ground floor. So that excites me. And then also, like, community. Right?

It's really fun to have conversations with individuals in this space because the traits that many collectors in WNBA have are, traits that I admire and hope if someone's looking at me in the way I collect, I have some of those traits.

So nostalgia representation, discovery, and community are just some things that I'm thinking about. What's your reaction?

Anything different? Anything you wanna add? Oh, these are all really good. And, like, thinking about, like, racking and stacking them when I saw this list, the one that really popped off the page for me was representation.

And I think that it's so big because I'll get into more of, like, the timeline of my personal collecting from, like, a kid to now.

But I think that just, like, seeing women on cards and celebrated and, valued both monetarily and sentimentally is so important.

And I look at, kids today, like, when we talked about the big show, that I set up with, mostly WNBA and NCAA women's basketball cards, and I see these little girls come up to me.

And it's the first time that first time ever, like, literally ever, they've seen, women and people that are not men on cards. I think that that's just so important, and that just goes so far beyond cards.

And so when I think about prioritizing these kind of different factors of why we collect WNBA cards as opposed to something else and just putting that lens on, representation really, really pops off the page, like I said, and climbs to the top of my ranking.

That's awesome. The I wanna maybe explore WNBA collecting in comparison, especially in this, like, market where things are just wild right now and comparing it to maybe, other categories.

It just one thing, I get it. I get the idea of, like, blue chip, and I get the idea of collecting all time grades.

And trust me, the last thing I'm gonna do here is, like, disparage that because that the the many of you out there collect that, and I'd I I'm not here to say you shouldn't.

I collect Peyton Manning, and I consider him an all time great. But I I I just, like, I see the way the hobby moves sometimes, and it's like, everyone's big on Tom Brady. Everyone's big on Jordan. Everyone's big on Curry and the GOATs.

And it's just like the GOATs dominate the conversation where it's just like, man, I can go over to WNBA collecting, and that is like, it's people, like, buying these cards because they have a personal connection.

People are buying these cards because they're, they're they're stuck in this WNBA bubble. They've, like, dipped their toes and they're stuck, and they just wanna continue to go.

So I don't know. It's like I think about, like, Carter. I think about Mike Kaye, and I've just been following them. And they're just like Asia Wilson collectors.

And they're like they're I can tell both of those collectors. There's, like, sacrifice they're making in other categories to continue to bolster their Asia Wilson collections because they genuinely love watching Asia Wilson play.

And it's I can see that coming out. I I I don't know. Like, I've never had a conversation with either of them about, like, tactically what they're doing, but, like, I observe.

And so I don't know. Like, I think that's cool, and it's a little different from what I'm seeing in in other spaces. It's also different, I think, but also it's it's different, but it's similar because AJ Wilson will be the goat.

Right? Like, I don't think there's any argument, and this is coming from an Nafisa Collier truther here live on pod, but I I think AJ Wilson is going to be the goat of women's basketball when it's all said and done.

I fully believe that with my whole chest. And I I think people that are watching and that are fans like MC Basketball PC and Mike k who you mentioned, they know that.

And it's it's it's a similar methodology to what we're seeing in other segments, except they're just watching so they know it's true.

And, like, if you're watching AJ Wilson and you're somebody that believes in the blue chip kind of methodology of collecting, it should be at the top of the list.

Like, she is only getting better and has the awards, the, hardware, the cultural significance, all the things we talked about last episode.

And I think that she has all those factors. And so to see these people kind of making room in their collection to have her represented, I think is very special, but I I think it's also smart at the same time.

So digging into, like, this this cycle, and I I call it the cycle of doubt. And things I've picked up in hearings I think I think, Caitlin, you and I at the National maybe even, like, heard this, like, directly from individuals.

And it's funny. It's I don't know. It's it's funny when you hear stuff like that, and then it's like I don't know.

I try to be very thoughtful with the words I say around certain groups. But, anyways, I hear this a lot. I read it online. I hear I listen to every freaking podcast out there.

Nobody collects WNBA cards. WNBA cards will never hold value. There's no real demand for WNBA cards. Those are just a few, Sound bites. Sound bites I hear from guess what? People who aren't collecting WNBA cards, so go figure.

So those are, like, venomous narratives that just are infiltrating the minds of maybe individuals who are on the brink of collecting WNBA cards, but they hear someone vocalize that who they listen to regularly, and so it prevents them from collecting.

I wanted to bring that. It's a cycle of doubt.

It is fueled by people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. But, like, how do we how do we how do we manage that? I think we just need to look at this from a critical lens of understanding media.

I think that's literally the underlying, force is the drive of short form content and understanding that saying things that are outrageous and that are, I suppose a little bit rage baby, drives engagement, which increases your follower count, which improves your credibility so that you feel more empowered to make those statements.

I don't think it goes deeper than that.

Some folks obviously have some issues with the WNBA, and they can deal with that on their own. But I think that a lot of these inflammatory takes are literally just for the sake of making a take and for, like, farming content.

And so that's okay if that's how you wanna do it, but I won't be engaging with it, and I urge listeners or anybody that's looking to get into the hop, into the WNBA segment of the hobby to think of that as noise and to just ignore it because there's no reason why somebody who, you know, you don't know or that even if it is somebody that you look up to or trust, you're allowed to disagree with people.

I think that's important on the Internet is that maybe don't idolize these people's opinions into some fact.

And I think that it's just important to remember that most of those things are are just for clicks, similar to WNBA media outside of the hobby.

It's really just to drive content in farming and not to give too much breath or air to those those ticks. I hope if you're listening to this show, this show has been a opportunity for you all to drowned out some of that stuff.

It's one of the big I don't start shows on this platform that I'm not, like, super excited and passionate about. And, obviously, like, I'm lucky to have a a cohost like Caitlin who's right there with me.

So we're like we're not quite done with season two yet, but, like, I felt like this is a a a good conversation to have, especially as we're entering in, like, playoffs and WNBA is not gonna be here, and then what happens on the other side of it.

I already shared, like I led with kinda my story of, like, how I got involved.

Maybe as we're kinda rounding this, segment out. Caitlin, I don't know if you have any other thoughts or your your own personal, like, story sentiment around why this community and this category means so much to you.

Yeah. Absolutely. I'd like to get into I read a little timeline of how I found my way to WNBA, and I kinda wanna get into that. And I think the question that we had posed was this idea of hesitation.

That's kind of like a a theme throughout this episode is this idea that there's folks out there that are thinking about joining the WNBA collecting world, but they're not sure whether it's for a myriad of reasons.

And I just wanna say before I start my timeline that there was no hesitation for me. It was jumping right in.

It was just knowing it existed. That needed to be the foundation that was laid. So I'll bring you back to the start of my collecting, which was the early two thousands, particularly 2007 and 02/2008, so when I was about six years old.

That's when I was really into collecting cards. I went to Shopko, which was a local, I suppose, store in Green Bay where I grew up, and they had hanger packs and cello packs of NFL cards.

I particularly recall 2008 Topps. Topps, not Topps, Chrome. 2008 Topps football being the set that I went to.

And, that was just kind of a binder filling, hobby for me. I would lay them out similar to how, you know, when you get your Halloween candy, you would sort them and put them on the floor.

The same thing happened for me, and then we would have Sunday night football, and I'd make my team. And with my team that I lay down on the ground of 11 cards, beat the team that was playing. That's kinda where my collecting started.

And at that time, you know, I didn't even know about, WNBA or WNBA cards. I was in basketball, playing basketball from a very young age, but, that wasn't at the forefront of the content that I was being fed in the sports world.

And to add kind of a a a, backdrop to this, some context is that my dad is an athletic director at my high school.

So he was we were a sports family, and I grew up in in Lambeau Country. So, like, everything was sports. And so, anyways, I was in the hobby when I was little, came back in 02/2017.

That's when I had my driver's license. I was working a grocery store job, and I would walk over on my break to Target to pick up some 2017 football Prizah, which turned out to be a great financial choice.

Never happens, but I I ripped those in my car in my 2003 Chevy Malibu in the parking lot of my lunch breaks. And there was never really a North Star of collecting nor was there any WNBA cards on the shelves in Target.

At that time, it would have been written house with a license, and those were not found at Target or Walmart or any of these other big distribution providers.

To that end, my local card shop was based in Green Bay proper, meaning that it was hard to find anything that was not packers, let alone not football, let alone women's sports cards.

So this idea of WNBA cards was never really shown or presented to me as a collector at a young age.

Now I came back into the hobby in college, end of college, and now we're here. I'm about three or four years out of out of college now, and, WNBA cards was a a recent love in the past four to five years of mine.

And I think that, you know, the main point in telling this timeline is not that I was hesitating to think about it, to think about, do I wanna collect WNBA?

It was just the idea that WNBA never even existed in my mind because it wasn't marketed, at the same rate, and it wasn't given the same credibility as these other segments.

Card shops didn't carry it. It wasn't front page news. Caitlin Clark was not making headlines in mainstream media. Record breaking sales were not on the front page of NBC, whatever the hell, business channel.

It just wasn't there. And I think that that was my that's my story of collecting, and I think it's true for so many collectors is this this idea of doubt that people, like, are hesitating or people don't want to collect it.

I think they just don't know it exists.

And that's that's the the string I wanted to pull on here is that, if you're waiting now to for permission to collect the WNBA, you need to stop and you just need to do it. Because now it's at the forefront.

It should be available. And and I hope through this podcast and the conversations that Brett and I, try to curate that, you know, it's a little bit more manageable to access and that it's a little bit easier to find.

Awesome story and sentiment. How was that, Malibu driving around those icy streets at Green Bay?

It was a scary time. It was not good. It it was bad, Brett. It was not good. Rip to Kevin, my name Kevin. He's he's gone now. Oh, poor Kevin. Tough life. Try to make it out there and a lot of obstacles. In Green Bay. Yeah. Alright.

Well, let's move over. I we gotta I was, like, reflecting. I was like, you know what? Like, I almost, avoided, like, having to talk about this topic altogether, but I figured, you know what? It's probably good to talk about this topic.

So I wanna talk about Caitlin Clark. And I wanna talk specifically about two sales and sales what happens during these moments where there's an adversity, not only as a fan, but as a collector. And so we'll start here.

The news that the fever we're shutting it down shutting down Caitlin Clark was not really a surprise. I was hopeful that that wasn't going to be the case. But when I saw the news, it was like a a Band Aid getting ripped off.

It's like, okay. I can get my mind past that, and I can focus in on the current players this current year because I've been living in this world of of hope, which, man, sports, they'll rip your heart out.

You know? So I've been I've been, like, dealing with that as a fever fan.

And, yes, there are fever fans out there that aren't just, Caitlin Clark fans. We exist, especially us here in Indiana. We're not just Caitlin Clark fans. We're fever fans. Just wanna make sure that's cool. Let me I'm you know what?

I'm just there's the all the negativity that comes from everybody else about us fever fans, like, I'm I'm just tired on it. I I get it, but then I don't. So I'm not gonna open up that can of worms because that'll sidetrack us for days.

But, anyhow, you've got Clark, and we don't even need to get into her impact. Being out, not a fun year for anyone who is collecting her cards or is a fan of Caitlin Clark.

We wanna we wanna watch her play. And so this got me thinking about her card market and what's going on. And then then a sale happened. I saw card ladder graphic. By the way, shout out card ladder.

Season three is going to be coming up here. Before you know it, card ladder is going to be playing a more pivotal role in, supporting the WNBA card podcast. Shout out that great team for just being on board with what we're doing here.

Excited to share more details on that. But I saw them put out a graphic as they do on their Instagram of sales that are happening, and it was of her her Clark's prism gold number 22 PSA nine.

And I saw the figure, and we'll chop up these results. And I was like, I think that was lower than last time, which caused me to, like, dig into, her market in general.

So I'm gonna pull up for those that are able to watch this, I'm gonna pull up Clark's player index in card ladder. And so I have I have the two year, of Clark's market right now, and it is up a 190% over two years.

But if you go to three months, we're down 20%. You go down a month, we're down 12%. So inevitably and you see this with a lot of top shelf athletes that have wide pool of people buying and transacting their cards.

I won't even just say collectors because God knows not everyone buying Caitlin Clark cards is a collector, but you see this.

Like, this is this is this is normal. I think what's interesting about Clark's market is that you've got a lot of outside WNBA people involved.

And then what have what have they been waiting? They've been waiting for the playoffs. When Clark hits that game winner, then they can sell this card.

Well, that's not gonna happen. So I think a lot of individuals who have bought CLAR cards for and, you know, if you're not buying because of the love and the passion and the connection, I'm so sorry.

It's just what happens. But injuries happens, markets go down, and there's nothing worse than overpaying for a card and then holding it when you're the player is hurt knowing that you're probably gonna lose money on it.

And there are a lot of people right now. The market was so heated up. And so that's, like, my perception from following Caitlin Clark's market, looking at the data.

And I before we get into the Prism sales, I wanna I wanna pause there. I wanna get your reaction about what has your observations been with Clark being on the shelf this entire season damn near.

Your observations with that impact on WNBA collecting, that impact on the WNBA in general, like, I'd love to get your perception on, like, how you have been seeing things with with her out.

Not not much has changed for me personally. Let me just say that. I think also the numbers in terms of WNBA as a league show that viewership is still growing without her being there.

I think, obviously, it would grow at a higher rate if she was there. We know who Caitlin Clark is. She deserves that kind of respect and when we talk about her in terms of being an entertainer.

But, I me myself, I wasn't highly invested in Caitlin Clark. I have a few cards in my PC, and then I have one that I'm sitting on through this whole entire event.

But, I'm not over leveraged by any means. And I think that, you know, as we saw the injury progress and progress, it looked like on that graph, there was a little bit of time to get out, but it's been kinda downhill for a while now.

And I think that this is a story told many times in other lanes, and maybe this is the first time people are seeing it in the WNBA, so it feels a lot harder.

But I I don't know. This happens. Injuries happen. I'm a strong believer in Caitlin Clark's play, and, hopefully, they'll have a re rehab to good for for next year. That's my thoughts on the situation.

I love it. So I've been very transparent about Caitlin Clark card in my collection, her concourse gold, PSA 10 select. Caitlin, I'll tell you this. There hasn't been one time this season where I've said, you know what?

It's time for me to sell this card because I'm a Caitlin Clark fan, and I I want a significant piece. Like, make that jump to buy a card like that. Like, I wasn't gonna buy it to sell it anytime soon. It just I wanted the card.

So I think the interesting dynamic right now that's going to be unfolding probably for the next several months is the individuals who purchased those cards maybe not with that same thinking in mind, but they were looking to cash out.

So I I'm not very, very hopeful that Caitlin Clark's market will continue to go up for a long time.

I I it it probably won't because we're in this period of adversity in the hobby. And whenever there's a period of adversity in the hobby and you're holding a card that you don't have connection to, you're likely trying to to get out.

Yeah. Absolutely. So here are the sales, and this is why we're having the conversation. So the first sale of Clark's 2024 prism gold, number 22 PSA nine, which is a pop three, sold 05/22/2025 for 63 k on golden.

Then there was another sale that happened September 6. One of the PSA nine copies sold on Golden. It is a different copy. I think I've double checked that.

Yeah. It's a different copy. It's not the same copy. It it sold for 50,000. So it took a 13 k haircut in a few months' time, which I saw it. And when I saw the figure, it was like, I think this card went down in value.

I had no idea how much. And then I validate it in card ladder, and it it did. What I still like, this if I if I could own outside of any of her one of ones out of prism, this would be the card that I would want.

Obviously, still, quite a ways outside of my range and ballpark. But, like, what's your reaction to this? You see a significant card from a flagship set go down in value, of 13 k over a few months.

Like, what what's your overall reaction knowing what we know now about everything that's transpiring in the Caitlin Clark universe? Oh, god. I this is still when I saw the price, I thought to myself the same thing.

This feels like it went down, but it also still feels very strong. Like, yeah, it's like not turn your nose up at. And so that was my my initial reaction. And I don't know.

It's just such a beautiful card. I I think not to be, like, investor y, but I think if we look at the graph, this is as low as we've been in the Caitlin Clark era since she really took over. Like, the Caitlin Clark takeover happened.

And so you'd have to think the person buying this, believes similarly that we're in the dip. And so I'd I'd love to hear from folks that are buying these, just their rationale behind the prices.

But I was still impressed with the sale. Maybe that's me being optimistic. How how I like to look at these things is I put them into my tax bracket. So for me, it's like, okay.

It's sold at $63, not 63,000. Okay. So for $63, and now it's sold for $50. To me, it's like, what? That's in the same range. But then you add the the zeros on the end and it becomes a lot more inflammatory and difficult.

But, yeah, I I still think it's a strong sale despite the injury. I that's my thought is that it's still a big sale, and that, you know, she's not gonna be on the court.

So can it can it really go down? Could she get hurt again throughout this season? I don't know. It's an interesting story to follow. I'll be I'll be very curious to see how this pans out in her third year.

Right? So that'll be that'll be interesting. Yeah. So, good points. I wanna move this over to kind of the veteran conversation a little bit where Clark maybe is a little bit of an outlier.

I mean, obviously, I would you can still consider a prospect. In her rookie year, she was all WNBA. So Yeah. She's got credentials, even though she's only been playing, you know, not even two years, hardly a a year and and some change.

But every time Caitlin and I go run I run, like, weekly sales reports and card ladder. Mhmm. And I do filters and try to, like, see what's at the top.

And it's always, like, it's undefeated at being, obviously, Caitlin Clark, but then it's just, like, rookies in Panini instant or, the second year players that are commanding the most attention.

Obviously, like, hype is a big part of so many other collecting categories, but, like, I don't know. Like, to me, it just, like, screams opportunity to go by the players who've been doing it for a long stretch.

I don't think it should be challenging, but, like, I feel like we as collectors inevitably just make it challenging where we're, like, chasing this hope.

But I don't know. We've been talking about, like, look at all these players who are in this league right now who've done so much.

MVPs, championships, but, like, it's not like people aren't buying them, but just the price despairance, the the price, difference between kind of that group and this prospect group is is stark.

So I don't know. Like, what's your reaction on that? It makes me very excited to be a vet truther. As somebody who appreciates that, I think that it it makes it's great.

Like, in terms of accessibility and being able to afford them, that is like the silver lining of these things being relatively undervalued in my opinion is that it just feels so good as a collector to not get priced out for once.

You know? And and for that to stay as long as possible, I'm not mad at that.

Even though it might not be, like, headline growth, segment booming, bull market, etcetera, etcetera, to be able to go buy a gold prism of Tina Charles for, like, under a $100 or under $50.

Like, okay. I'm why would I want that to change? But at the same time, I understand the sentiment and, it's a contradict you're allowed to contradict yourself with those things.

And so it's interesting. And I I think that one thing that I wanted to call out when we talk about this idea of bets is that the WNBA hasn't been around as long as these other leagues, so that collector base is just smaller and younger.

And so when we think about bets, it's just the rookies are always going to overtake that, especially with the wave of new folks entering the WNBA segment with Caitlin Clark.

The collector base of folks even looking backwards is just inherently smaller. And I think that that's not necessarily a bad thing.

It just means similar to what we were talking about at the beginning with discovery. It just means we're early. Awesome. Great, segment there. Love to get getting your perspective and thoughts.

I know I don't think we don't have any pickups of the week again, but I do wanna Kate Caitlin, I do this so often on my shows where I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna just I'm gonna use this as a selfish, hey.

Help me out. If you if you have a 2020 Kelsey Mitchell Gold Prism, or if you know where her 2024 Black Finite is, come find me. I love it. I like the bad shit. Trees, and I'm being really aggressive. Right? I know. Hey. Come at me.

You you need that right now with how the fever I do. That sent me this meme of this, like, broken down shitty car just, like, hardly exiting off the the freeway. And he was like, this is the this is the fever making it to the playoffs.

So that's Kelsey Mitchell driving that car, so you need something to honor that. I love it. And that's part of where my venom comes from with the the the fever haters.

It's like, go piss off. It's like, literally, I have seen just it's been like fallen soldier after fallen soldier. Like, you wanna talk about dealing with adversity as a fan?

That's me. Like Yeah. I saw some of your coaches are even out for the season. Yeah. Yeah. We've got we've got coaches that are practicing with the players tearing their Achilles.

There's something's going on here in Indianapolis. I don't know what it is, but I don't like it. Alright. Well, you hear heard it here first, folks. If you've got those Kelsey Mitchells, reach out to Brett.

I I know for sure I won't be competing against him, so good luck, Brett. Alright. Yes. My favorite part. We're gonna talk about a collector spotlight. This week, it's at per deck exchange.

I'm excited to showcase this account. Incredible LA based Juju Watkins superfan is how I would characterize them. Met this collector at the national. Super passionate about USC and women's basketball in general.

Very frequenter of, live events, including WNBA and win and college basketball games. And really is that, I would say, the forefront when I close my eyes and think about content creation in WNBA card collecting.

They're at the front of it. So really excited to showcase them. Go shop go follow them if you don't already. This is a great account to hopefully inspire some more WNBA collecting.

Always love turning new accounts onto the loyal listeners here. Absolutely. Well, why don't we round out today with a mailbag? And mailbag is a little bit old fashioned today, Brett. I've been just so freaking busy with life.

I feel like the beginning of fall, end of summer here in Minnesota is just always be outside as much as possible and take advantage of the not freezing cold, and I've just been sidetracked, folks.

So I I didn't get the opportunity to, solicit your questions this week, but we're gonna go original season one WNBA card pod style with three questions that the cohosts couldn't ask each other.

So, Brett, let's start off with question number one, which is tying back to our recent conversation about vets here. If you had to PC only vets or only rookies, which lane are you picking?

That's all day long. I again, I think that's where, obviously, the vets are driving the league, and I'm not, like, saying it to disparage the the rookies, but I feel like that's where the value is.

And how fun is that? Like, you can literally buy the best players in the WNBA, and get some value out of it.

That sounds that sounds great to me. I'm gonna turn turn the tables. What what's your response? My initial reaction was going to be rookies, actually, because I know it's surprising.

But to me, the reason why I chose that is because I believe in what I call the one card PC, which is that one card can be an efficient or sufficient, PC of a player.

And so if I could just get one rookie card of the players that I like, I think I would be fine with that.

But it would it would be an exercise of patience. It would be an exercise of budgeting, and I don't know if it would actually return the same amount of enjoyment as vets.

So, I wouldn't wanna choose. How about that? But if I had to, because of the reason I just gave, I'd go with rookies. It's a good reason. I like it. Thanks, Brett. Okay. Question number two.

This is also tying back to Caitlin Clark here. If Caitlin Clark's gold prism magically dropped in your lap, the one that we talked about, with Al Davis in the background, would you sell it, trade it, or lock it away right now?

It would be so locked away. Yeah. I I would it's it'd be one of those cards I would just, like, go to the bank and get a safety deposit box, and I'd go visit it.

And I wouldn't even, like, I wouldn't even have it around me because I wouldn't even wanna have to think about selling it.

So I'm a big believer. They're literally I get to drive by it every day. They they they literally, on Delaware, bulldozed a jail, an whole jail that was downtown.

It's been there, county jail, ever since I was a kid. Bulldozed. We are at the Ground Floor now, and there's a fever logo outside. They're building a state of the art facility for the team right downtown Indianapolis.

So I'm not the only one who's a long term believer. My the team I chair for in the entire city here is. So I want I want the card because I wanna follow that, that growth and that connection.

Now that you said that, I remember seeing a photo of, Steph White and the players in their hard hats and shovels. That's exciting stuff happening in Indy.

Alright. For me, if a Caitlin Clark, Ricky Gold Prism just happened to make its way to my collection, I think I would sell it. I don't think that I have the same emotional connection, at least not at that value level.

I think I'd much rather, pry the black finite fee out of, one of our fellow listeners, collection for very, very small price compared to what the what the Clark would, pay me out. So that would be what I would do.

Never say That that would make sense. That's what it's all about. Like, that's we've we've talked about WNBA enough, and you saying that not once was I like, god. Why would you do that? That didn't make any sense.

That just makes sense because that's that's that's your connection. Exactly. Okay. Last question. If Hobby Hype suddenly shifted to vets tomorrow, which players cards would you sprint to buy before the mark market caught up?

You know, I I probably would be again, like, North Star collecting, have to have, like, a connection back. Like, there are players that I love, that I buy.

A lot of them are part of sets that I love, so there's, like, all these reasons. But, like, such a part of collecting for me is, like, cheering, enjoyment, fandom, and I would probably just I would be going nuts on a Leah Boston cards.

I Wow. Really? I yeah. I would. I she's I I think she's, I think she's so great. Like, I couldn't speak more highly of not only a player on the court, but, like, individual.

Like, the more I get to know her and the way she thinks about basketball and media and life, like, the more I truly think she's a very, very special human being.

So I I'm I I feel a strong connection with Aliyah Boston, and I would collect the shit out of her cards. I I like that choice. I thought you were gonna say Tamika Catchings.

Okay. Hey. That's a that's a I I will say I have been fortunate enough to meet a incredible Tamika Catchings collector, and I feel like he's he's got he's got a great like, a lot of the cards I'd won, he already has.

So it's like, you know you know how that goes.

Yeah. I do. I understand. Okay. Well, I respect your choices. I think we're both gonna go with our our teams, and I'm going with Maya Moore, baby. There you go. Recently, hall of fame inductee with Sue Bird and Sylvia Fowles.

Just seeing the seeing Maya Moore talk every time, it just gets me juiced up. Like, it's there's something so special about a player that, you know, could have been I don't know.

I I don't even wanna hesitate when I say I think she would have been the best basketball player ever and not just, like, women's basketball. I think just ever. And I think that, you know, the Jordan brand understands that.

Michael Jordan understood that when they recreated the wings photo. When they when they made the photo, I reposted on my story of, Maya Moore with, like, 12 rings on her hand. I was like, that's my goat right there.

Like, that's and and the more I think about it, there's no reason why I shouldn't be collecting Maya Moore right now. I just haven't been able to find the ones that really get me excited. So I'm on the lookout.

And so this question, while a hypothetical about certain conditions existing, I think that it's gonna happen either way. So I'm going buy more. That era of cards, all of the great cards are so locked away. You know? So locked.

It makes it hard to be motivated to go, like, put plant your flag in the sand and say, I'm gonna go collect my Amur because someone already had someone has been there way before you, and they're not doing any those cards are sitting in their collection.

You know?

Yep. So if you're out there and you've got cool My Amora cards, I won't even try to pry them from you too hard. But if you could just show you they exist, that would be helpful. This is a fun app, man. I'm glad we did this one.

Yeah. It's it's by the time this releases, it's playoff time. Good luck to your teams unless they're playing the Minnesota Lynx, in which case I wish you no luck, and we'll see you in the playoffs, folks. Thanks, everyone.