Alright. Excited for this conversation.

We are going to be talking about a topic that has been on my mind a lot. And as I was thinking about collecting while my team is making headway in the playoffs, I decided to reach out to Kyle from the Wax Museum podcast.

I listen to his show every week, and I know he's kinda going through what I'm going through as a Pacers fan.

So I figured, you know what? We can share in the joy or, commiserate whichever way, we wanna go. As we're recording this episode, it's coming off the heels of the Pacers' first loss, a game which I was at game three.

So we're hoping our spirits on this Memorial Day as we're recording were gonna be really high, but they might be a little deflated, but we'll get into that.

But without further ado, Kyle, welcome back. How are you? I'm doing well. And, as I shared with you earlier, this is not a Brett thing, but, I'll tell the audience at home. I I was in no mood to record today.

And and with that being said, I'm gonna give my best effort here today, but, last night was super deflating, and I put on all my all my, boundaries. Like, hey. Don't talk to me. I don't wanna be around anyone.

But here I am. I'm back in the world. So I'm like this too, and this is just what happens. This is scheduled, so we're just we're gonna get through it. And we wanna avoid everyone when our team is doing bad.

But when our team is doing good and winning, we wanna consume all the content, sharing the conversations. Maybe let me ask you this. What happens to you with your cards and, like, your current collection after a loss like last night?

Do you find yourself wanting to spend time with your cards and that helps? Or are you just, like, anything Pacers related, you just wanna have nothing to do with until the next game tips?

No. I definitely still consume a lot of Pacers stuff and whether it be eBay or Twitter or whatever. In fact, I think I sent out a story after one of the game winners.

I'm losing track now. There's been a lot of them. That said, sell me your rare Pacers cards. And my first story last night was sell me your rare Pacers cards because that's that's just where I'm at.

I'm gonna buy, in victory. I'm gonna buy in defeat. That's the way it's been for thirty years, and that's the way it's just gonna be. I love that. I wanna get into your Pacers collecting, which is gonna be the main theme of this.

I would love I'd be remiss to not ask your just general perspective over the this playoffs. Obviously, little somber as we're recording this coming off of a loss, but I know you have traveled to to, Gamebridge to be there four games.

We don't get too many of these. I know we were in the Eastern Conference, finals last year, but we we don't get too many moments where it feels like we can really do something and make some headway.

What how have you taken, like it's been long. Like, we've been in this playoffs for a long time.

You I forget about that, especially in as this all unfolds, how long and how big of a roller coaster this all is. But kind of maybe shed some light on this run and and what it's meant for you as a Pacers fan.

So I I mean, I think we've been really spoiled this time around because not only have we, had successes right at and we've I think there's three losses in the playoffs now, which is, you know, pretty incredible considering how many games they've played.

But there's been, wins that shouldn't have happened.

There's been comebacks that shouldn't have happened. And, it's it's happening enough now to where it's not just a fluke. Right? Like, these comebacks, it's like, okay. Maybe, maybe these guys are just wired to be this way.

So, I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of that, obviously. I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of potentially sending the Bucks and Giannis to the shadow realm, just like we did the Knicks in 2013.

I I do wanna take some time to, remember the fans that we've lost today, which would be the Bucks fans.

And, you know what? They talked a lot over the last two years. And I I'm not talking about David. Right? We both had David on. Nice guy. David, I'm sorry. You have to go through this again.

But, the Bucks fans have talked so much in the last two years. It was so satisfying to send them packing two years in a row. Not only that, they have to deal with this Luminess decision that's coming up.

And, you know, they should probably just keep them there, and that's probably the right thing to do. But no matter what they do, it's a bad situation for them.

So, you can see what I'm doing here. I'm deflecting my, disappointment right now onto the Bucks because as I've said before, those were those have always been my championships, beating the Bucks, beating the Knicks.

So, hopefully, we get that two years in a row. I think I completely went off topic there, Brett. Oh, it's hey. It's it's all good.

It's part of I think, the interesting part, and we are talking about this a little bit ahead. But with the community and Instagram and collecting cards, like, we're all fans of so many different teams, and we're loud.

Right? When we win, we're loud in our stories. And sometimes some people take it overboard. And so we it's weird.

And I don't know if you feel this, Kyle, but, like, I found that the way I feel about the opposition, it it you know, I have my opinion, but a lot of it in terms of level of what I can tolerate or not, a lot of it goes into the people that I interact with regularly who are collecting sports cards like me.

I think most of it's, you know, easygoing and friendly. But all it takes is one bad apple from an opposition to continually slide into the DMs or post erratic content to really make me feel one way about a team.

So I'm I'm I'm assuming maybe you've gone through that a little bit just with, different collectors and fans Yes.

Who who have been tied into the playoffs. You let me ask you this. Alright. I mean, I'll I'll flip the script on you here. You don't have any ill will towards the Cavs or Cavs fans.

Correct? Zero. Absolutely none. Right? So here's kinda my approach to this. I will, I'm going to be cocky and brash on my platforms and my pages. Right? Because you can always choose not to listen or consume that.

Right? You can always mute that. I don't go into other people's inboxes like that. The moment people start coming into inboxes or sending me stuff, that's when you're going to get it reciprocated.

And that's why I feel this way. So I'll make that very clear to everyone that's listening out there. Please mute me if you want to. I Brett, I've already told people I don't wanna be here and to mute me.

So that that's probably not a great probably turning some people away on your show. I apologize for that. Oh, it's all in fun. It's all in passion, and I wanna get into the cards, and collecting of it all.

So I I've, you know, I've listened to your content. I follow you. I've always you know, we've met in real life. I've I'll like, your brand to me is, Pacers team collector, and it's not just that's, like, more general, but you Mhmm.

You like certain things within that. You like certain eras. You like certain products. Maybe share just the your your fandom of the Pacers and how like, why you decided to connect.

Like, you collect a lot of different things, but I've your brand is a Pacers collector. So maybe talk about the beginning of that, how that started, and what pulled you in in the first place.

Yeah. So I became a fan, I would say, and, you know, I don't have the exact dates. I know when I kinda started going to games, but '94, '90 '5.

So that would be, when Reggie was doing all of his heroics. I don't think that I watched the some of it, like, the, eight points in nine seconds. I didn't watch that live. Right? But I think I became a fan on the heels of that.

Everyone at school you know, I'm in kindergarten and first grade. Everyone at school is talking about Reggie. My parents are watching the games. Right? So that's kinda when it started to become my own.

And, cards came into the equation pretty soon after that because the kids at school, they had cards too. And I I remember telling my mom, like, hey. I I think I want a pack of cards. Right?

So we go to Walmart, and, she bought me a pack of ninety three ninety four tops. I got a Jordan in there, but I also got a Dale Davis. Right? And that was kinda like, alright. This is pretty cool. I get, a player from my own team.

I go to my first game in November of ninety five at, Market Square Arena. Dale Davis is on the program. Right? So so these things start to add up. You you'd think I'd have a huge Dale Davis collection because of that.

I I actually don't. But, you know, it was kinda like I don't know. When you're when you're a kid, those things leave an impression on you, and, obviously, they were winning then, and it was exciting.

The people around me are into it. Had I grown up somewhere else, it you know, the story would be completely different. The, last night at the game, they had Pacers from all different eras there.

And during each time out, they would spotlight one, you know, sometimes in batches and sometimes based on the the how long the time out was, it would just be one.

And I'll tell you what, man. Dale Davis was in the house. And when they when they put the camera to Dale Davis and they announced him, that there was Rick Smith outside of Reggie.

Rick Smith's got the second biggest pop of the night, but Dale was third and it was so fun to see, just the crowd remember him after all of these years.

And he, you know, during those runs when we were growing up, it just seemed like he was that guy who did all of the, little things that no one else wanted to do.

But you need those types if you're gonna try to run and compete for a championship.

Yeah. He was the one him and Antonio were setting all the screens for Reggie running around. Yeah. Dale did the whole rev in the car thing at the the, game four I went to last year against the Knicks, so, he got a pop into.

So that that was pretty fun seeing that, you know, I I've said a few times lately. All things are coming full circle.

Well, it they really are. You know, it's crazy how that works. I guess that just means I'm getting old. Yes. It definitely does. Do you remember, you know, as you're finding your footing collecting the Pacers?

Are there any in those early days like particular cards that you remember that stand out to you that maybe got you motivated to, you know, collect to the level that you're collecting today?

Are there any standout pieces in the early days?

Yeah. I I mean, I'm I know I mentioned that, '93 tops base card of Dale Davis. You know, that that one kinda set things in motion where it's like, well, Dale Davis has cards, then Reggie Miller has cards.

And, I quickly moved on to looking for Reggie Miller stuff. And I you know, it's not like PNGs or that kind of thing. I didn't even know those cards existed. And even though I I, you know, eventually did find a Beckett magazine.

Right? I think I used the same one for, like, six years. But, I I didn't know all those fancy cards existed. So it was just finding base cards of these players. And, you know, a lot of times people were trade we were trading on the bus.

Right? People were trading in MJs and Kobes for Pacer cards, and and that's just kinda what you did. Eventually, into the early two thousands, it you know, relic cards came into the equation, autograph cards. So it's like, okay.

You know, let me collect autographs of the two thousand finals team. And then let me try to get a jersey card for every player that has one because at that time, you know, they weren't as common, and it's kinda escalated from there.

So okay. Then now gold refractors, now patch cards, and and so on. So the you know, would you classify it as just the more time you spent integrated into the hobby and collecting and discovering new types of sets?

Like, you found kind of your preferences or the types of cards you want. Like, I hear you talk every week, and it's very obvious that you're you know, you you like chunky patches, and Mhmm.

You you like the game use stuff. And you collect a lot of stuff, but that's kind of what I feel like is your mountain top.

Would you just say it's like time in the hobby that you were able to understand kinda your preferences and what types of cards you wanted to go after as a Pacers collector?

Yeah. I think it it's definitely a time thing and, buying things that you don't like. That kinda helps you figure out the things that you do sometimes. So when, I I'll talk about buying something that I think is stupid or whatever.

I still try to give stuff a chance. Like, I I finally broke down and bought one of my first non associated Relics after taking a hard stance after all these years. Okay. I'm going to buy this Jeris Walker.

I think I can justify it because I like Jeris Walker because I like the nine National Treasures design. I get it in hand and I hate it. And I I said, okay. Now I know this is a feeling I thought I had.

I tried to talk myself into something else, and now I know for sure. So, just using these experiences along the way to, kinda guide collecting. And and for me, it was you know, you mentioned the relics.

That to me was something that I I can't go out. Yeah. I could buy a game New Jersey, but I'm I don't collect large pieces. So that was something that I couldn't get on my own, where I've always gotten cards signed.

You know, maybe not Pacers cards from the start, but, I used to go to minor league baseball games and get cards signed in major league games and spring training.

Now I'm I have some access to Pacers games, obviously, and I get cards signed. So, like, you know, I'm not buying Haliburton autographs because I've been able to go get those.

But I can't get I can't walk up to him with a pair of scissors and cut some of his jersey off. Right? So so that's the stuff that I'm pursuing and and, really going from there. And that's kinda how things have evolved.

One thing I think a lot about is, like, from a team collector perspective, like, the different players in each era and, like, your level of fandom in connection to those players, but then you match, like, the era for which we were at with cards with those players.

So the sets, the type of technology, all of those things. I'm curious because, like, you know, team collecting can be overwhelming. You obviously have your preferences.

But how do you think about, like, the representation of players across eras? Like, does what was happening in the hobby from, like, a product perspective, influence kind of which players you might collect more of than others?

Yeah. I I think in a way that does. And, some of it you know, I I've done different methods and and I could say I'm a player collector as well for certain players like, Ron Artest.

Right? But, with Ron Artest, I'm kinda confined to certain cards from certain errors, and I don't really want a lot of King stuff or Rocket stuff or Lakers stuff.

So I'm really it's those o, you know, o two to o six cards, which is really my favorite error anyway.

But I I've I've been fortunate that, you know, I started collecting around '95 when I started watching, and, we've had refractors since then.

So I I look for continuity across eras and across manufacturers. So, like, we've always had either finest refractors, tops chrome refractors.

We went a few years in the Panini era without any sort of chromium cards until 2012. We finally got them back. So but, really, we've had some type of refractor, whatever you wanna call it, since the beginning of that time.

So for a team collector like myself, I can represent all of those eras. I can tell the history of collecting and the history of my team with something like my silver binder.

So that's something that's a project that that I started in the last five or six years that, has been a lot of fun kinda on top of the other stuff. And and, you know, the patches are more specific to certain areas too.

I wanna get into the you mentioned the King's stuff, at when you're I think you're mentioning Artest. I wanna talk about, like, maybe even with Artest, the Bulls stuff because it would represent rookie year, like Right.

This come I've been fascinated by talking with other collectors about this, but, like, I've gone through this cycle with, like, some of my Halliburton collecting where I've spent money and bought, rookie cards of his and King's jerseys to let them go because I'd rather put the money into a cool Pacers card.

And I think it's just said, like, the way I hear about the way people collect is, like, some people prefer the those rookie cards in the team jerseys that maybe they won't be remembered by.

While others, who might be more connected to their team, want don't wanna have anything to do with that, and they just want them in their current jerseys.

The hobby says, like, buy rookie cards. How do you navigate that? And, like, what's your mentality when you're, like, getting into a player that you really love on the current Pacers?

Aaron Neesmith, for me, is a really good example now, where I'm, like, looking for his cards and most of the stuff popping up is his Celtic stuff, which I don't really care about. But I I'd love for you to hear how you think about that.

Yeah. And that's kinda the one thing. I I wear my Pacers hoodie to pretty much every show I go to. And, oh, hey. I got some Halliburton stuff. And, you know, my first if it's twenty twenty Chronicles, I don't wanna see it.

And and but usually, it it'll be like a nice rookie autograph, and I appreciate and I will you know, I'll look at everything. I appreciate people showing me stuff.

It just doesn't connect to me though. And, I think my question then would be if if, you know, if someone else were in this position, when that player is not on this team anymore, will you still like that card?

Because I've got Malcolm Brogdon Bucks cards. I've got Victor Oladipo Magic cards. And, so what I've tried to do is is make exceptions for sets that I really like.

So, like, my favorite Panini parallel of all time is 2013 Prism Blue. So that was Victor Oladipo's rookie year. So I'll buy that card because when he's not a pacer, I still appreciate that card because I like that set.

Whereas some of the Brogdon stuff, not so much. So I try to find overlap in the areas wherever I can. I like enough stuff. Usually, I can find some overlap.

It also provides boundaries. So because I don't want a ton of this non Pacer stuff, and I and then I look at it in in the future and I say, you know, that was money I could have spent on actual Pacers cards.

Right? Like, why didn't I buy more Paul George stuff? Instead, I was buying you know, who knows what I was buying at the time. So, like, bulls are test stuff.

It's not to say I don't like it. I do have quite a bit of bulls are test stuff. You know, I have the credentials. Right? So I have, some letter patches. So I try to go for the things that, I really like, regardless of team.

But that that stuff is few and far between. I think about, Halliburton. I think about Nesmith. I think about Toppin and, you know, there's more but I just think about these players who started somewhere else.

But like as a team collector, we can collect and I don't know if you feel this way, man, but I I look at like prices of stuff and I see like a Halliburton card in maybe a gold Halliburton in Pacers uniform that looks really good.

And then I think about its counterpart, which would be, you know, in the rookie and a Kings, and that card maybe is listed three x or four x the price of the Halliburton.

And it to me, it just as my preference, it seems crazy to me to to pay that for the rookie card that I don't have a strong of connection to.

And so we get into this, like little game or I find we get into this little game where it feel, I feel like I'm kind of bargain bin shopping because the market is saying like you should go pay for these rookie cards when I don't have any interest and I would rather put the money into like a Pacers card that I have a better connection with.

So do you do you like, do you go through those similar cycles where the card you really want is cheaper than what, I guess, the hobby says you should be buying?

I do for the most part. And and on a side note, Brett, I need Colt season to start. I need you buying Colt stuff again. Stop buying Halliburton stuff. But no. No. Seriously, I you know, I'll I'll be honest with you.

It's not a a huge temptation for me anymore because I've been doing this long enough that, I just know better. And that and that's not me. I I'm not saying my way is right, but my way is is works for me.

Right? So I'm not telling other people how to buy, but, I don't get tempted by a lot of that other stuff because I've been down that road so many times. And, I know I'm in this for the long haul, so I I just kinda keep that in mind.

I you've been doing this for a long time and it's crazy. People might not think about it. But, you know, throughout, you know, since the nineties, the Pacers have been to the conference finals.

This is the tenth time. It's crazy. We we've only we've only made it to the finals once, but, like, there's been there's there's been some dark areas, but there's been a lot to cheer for as well.

How do you how do these, like, moments like, a moment we're in right now, how does that influence your collecting and your just overall mentality about, like, the collect Pacers collection you wanna be building?

Yeah. I mean, it it does make me wanna buy more cards. I'm definitely on eBay during games, and, I want to reactionary buy.

I I don't do a lot of it, though, because still I it I I try to I want my desire to buy to line up with cards that are desirable to me, and that doesn't happen all that often.

Now what it does mean is that I'm just looking on my phone on eBay nonstop. But I I've still I I feel like I've been fairly disciplined.

I'm not buying a ton of stuff. I did buy a, granted, it was $8 shipped. I did buy a top's finest gold refractor of Halliburton. I talked about it on a recent episode. I did have a couple ways that I justified it.

I'm fine with it. It was $8. I kinda laugh at it when I look at it. There are several things about the card that I like. Well, at the same time, I'm like, man, that's a hideous card. But I like it. You know?

I I don't like it enough to really go down the the tops rabbit hole or the fanatics rabbit hole too much. But, yeah. Sometimes that stuff will still happen. But I I try to make my reactionary buys $8 and not way more than that.

Is there a piece of you in that? Because I I've view you have a appreciation for the history, not only the team you collect, but I feel like you have an appreciation for the different iterations of the hobby.

And although you might not love what is currently being produced, is it p a part of that $8 purchase, like, okay.

At least I have, like, a time stamp of, like, this moment in time in our hobby even though, like, I look at the card and it's not my favorite card. Yeah. 100%. I actually I I had a perfect spot for it in my gold binder.

I needed something that was representative of this fanatics era, and, that that card was as about as perfect a representation as I could get, for the things that I like and the things that I'm trying to chronicle at the same time.

Is he is he wearing, a cutoff T shirt in in that?

So I actually I do I did buy a couple of those as well. They in tops midnight, he's got a couple he's got there's two cards I bought out of tops midnight, and I think they were $3 a piece.

They were inserts. One of them, he's wearing sleeves, which he has never worn sleeves as a pacer. I don't think he has a king either.

The other one, he's wearing double zero, because I just think it's hilarious that they photoshopped the wrong he wears zero. Mathern wears double zero. And, I pointed it out. They did it in an older set, and they did it again.

So it's just like these guys, there's just it's just full speed ahead with this. So I I I think that's a funny card, so I picked it up because of that. This playoffs and you have a lot of cards.

You have a big collection. Have you buy a lot and you you go to shows has have enjoying this Pacers run. Have you has it made you think anything differently of existing cards in your collection?

Like, because of what is happening on the floor, are you going back to your binder or, you know, flipping through your cards and, like, you pick up a card and you're like, you know what?

Like, based on what's happening right now, like, I have more of an appreciation for this than I thought I would when I when I bought it. Yeah. Definitely some of the Halliburton stuff.

I had purchased a a couple cards lately that were a little bit higher than I wanted to spend. And, I think those purchases would have happened regardless. But then when you see them hitting game winners, it kinda helps, like, okay.

You know? And that doesn't necessarily justify it, but I do feel a lot better about it. Now on on the flip side, I'm working on the, 2024 hoops premium gold team set for the Pacers.

There's 10 cards in that team set, and I just so happen to need Aaron Neesmith. And so that card is not showing up. Well, guess when it showed up was right after he just went ballistic, and it was priced high.

And, I was gonna buy it either way because I just, you know, with that kind of stuff, you kinda buy it when you see it. I tried to talk the seller down without being condescending. I'm like, look. Good luck. Like, I made I know.

I made an offer that I thought was still kinda high, and I said, this is more than fair for this card. And I didn't go into details. I was gonna add, like, you you and I both know, you know, I'm not gonna reactionary.

But I like, I'm like, I don't need to write the seller a book. It's not his fault. So I ended up buying, and I paid a little more than I wanted to, but it's like, you know what?

Like, I I would have bought that if they were out of the playoffs for that price. He just so happened to have just, you know, gone nuclear and had an amazing performance. So, now when I look at that card, though, I'll think of that.

So okay. You know, I bought this in the aftermath of that. Kinda coincidentally, it is what it is. Do do you I think a lot of us connect, obviously, our fandom with our collecting.

And, these deep runs, it's like pouring gasoline on the fire, where sometimes, like, you have to make reactionary buys because you're just so caught up in the moment.

Sometimes, like, it's bending a little more because you need a card for your set.

Would you say, like, being in this moment that we're at we're in right now as a fan and a collector, do you like, are you just more accepting of maybe some breaking some rules that you would have maybe had up in place before this, but you're just so caught up in where we're at right now?

You're willing to do maybe extraordinary exceptional things to get cards you need because you wanna remember them or you want them to be a piece of kind of what you remember this run by?

Yeah. I I think so. I mean, I I like, I I'm, thankful that we're in this situation because we've been in the complete opposite many times now.

I mean, you you mentioned we've been in the Eastern Conference finals, 10 times. It sure doesn't feel like it. But, yeah, I I'm thankful to be in this situation.

And and, honestly, that's why I keep putting out story post like sell me your rare Pacers cards because, you know, we joked about the kind of the, antagonizers earlier in the in the DMs.

Well, I've had it's been a lot more skewed the other way, to be honest. I've had a lot of people reaching out. A lot of people say, hey.

I'm I'm cheering for you. I'm happy for you. I'm happy for your team. So I'm hoping that this and all the national attention you know what? Like, some of those cards I've been looking for for years, I'm hoping they surface.

And if if it means, you know, this is the only time they come out and this is the only time they'll be for sale, then, yeah, I might have to break some rules, and I'm okay with that.

On the flip side, a couple weeks ago when I was in Indy, I took a couple cards that, like a Victor Oladipo prism gold insert.

I'm not attached to prism gold inserts. I bought it years ago because it was probably, like, $10. And, for $10, I'm happy owning it. But, when I can move it out of show for 40, I'm, you know, I'm like, hey.

I'm I'm gonna be an opportunist too. It doesn't mean I'm selling the the gems of my collection, but I'm gonna look at the kind of outside fringes of my collection. And, hey, you know what?

I'm gonna take advantage of this opportunity too because everyone else is. So, it it it's it's been, and I haven't sold a lot of stuff, but I did take a couple cards, and it was nice to move them into something that I want more.

You go to a lot of shows, when you're at home. What's what's it like seeing going to the shows you go to when you're at home and maybe seeing the same dealers and same cards?

And Pacers cards are few and far between than to just attending a card that because you're going or show because you're attending the game, you go to a a show.

I would imagine there's more Pacers stuff here in Indianapolis locally in the surrounding areas that shows than what you're seeing regularly in Florida.

Yeah. It was, not only that, just more basketball at the Indiana shows, and I was really, I really enjoyed that.

I was ready to pay a premium for something really nice. You know, I was telling myself like I understand if I'm buying it from here.

It's probably going to be someone like myself that collect some of this stuff and I'm okay with that. I will give you a kind of a funny example though. There was the the fish I think it was the Fisher show. I don't know.

I can't I I went to, like, three shows, but, there were two dealers that had Ben Mather in flawless patches. And, one of them, I couldn't get a number out of them. And I'm like, alright. That's fair. Like, he collects this.

It is what it is. The other one had his price at, like, two times what it should be. So I I tried to have a conversation with him and, even show him, like, look, I could go buy some of this stuff on eBay in the similar range.

So I'm not gonna pay double eBay. I don't mind paying a premium, but, like, let's let's get it to a more realistic spot here.

And he said, he's about to go into the playoffs, and he's gonna have a performance that, is just gonna make this card skyrocket, and I'm gonna move it then.

And I, I said, well, you know, I hope that's not the case. I don't think it's gonna be the case. Good luck with that. Look, Brett, you know, you've been watching the games.

Matherin's Matherin played, like, I don't know, like, four minutes last night. Like, not a whole lot. So, you you know, you wanna go to that dealer and be like, hey. You wanna move that bathroom patch now?

But, I'm, you know, I'm not gonna do that. I'd I, but, long story short, I was expecting to pay a premium, but I'm not gonna pay an insane premium for something that's still readily available elsewhere.

That makes a lot of sense to me. Are there you mentioned the knee smith. Has there been any pickups or cards, whether it's in this playoff run or leading up to this playoff run that you grabbed and you're pretty excited about?

There is his first, Pacers Relic. And, unfortunately, it is another fanatics card, but, so it's kinda hideous.

But I I like that it's a Pacers Relic. It's got the, the city jerseys from last year, which Panini hasn't given us any of those either. So, it's jersey number just 23 out of 25.

It's an on card auto. It's got those Pacers relics in there. Unfortunately, it is kinda hideous. It is unlicensed, but it checks, like, three out of the five boxes for me. And I'm like, you know what?

That's good enough. I've got a lot of stuff in my collection that checks less boxes than that. So, I've got that, Neesmith. Otherwise, he doesn't have a lot of Pacer stuff, and and I'm just not going to, like we discussed earlier.

Like, the Celtic stuff just doesn't appeal to me like that. I don't mind having, like, a a Prism Blue rookie. Right? Because that was cheap.

But, I'm not gonna go buy in his RPAs. I'm actually more likely to buy some of his college stuff because it's player worn. And I feel like, should I grow tired of Aaron Neesmith or should he, pull a Victor Oladipo on us?

I I think that college stuff is a little more movable, in in this era, whereas in the past, maybe not. Are you optimistic about the Gameworn patch relic of it all moving into this next era of manufacturer?

Because, you know, we've we've seen a lot of nothing for the last few years. Do you have optimism, or are you just kinda like wait and see mode?

A little of both, but I I do, I actually that's one of the things I'm, mostly optimistic about when it comes to fanatics and tops producing basketball cards because we've seen some good things.

It it's crazy to think that them producing player worn rookie memorabilia is a step in the right direction because that should actually be something of the past.

But, right now, that's a step in the right direction. They're doing that. They have had some Victor Wymanyama stuff where it's game dated.

I really like that. The baseball stuff, Topps has always done a pretty good job with, and they've got some very specific relics now. I just don't want everything to become a lottery ticket.

Like, I want this stuff to be obtainable. It shouldn't be like, hey. We've cut up Durant's, you know, 35,000 game shorts, but you can only get it if you buy 300 tops now cards. You know, like like, let's make it attainable.

Like, there are plenty of, less desirable pieces from those shorts to where everybody can have a little part. And that that's kind of the way I see it. So does that diminish the importance of them?

Maybe to some people. But at the same time, like, I just like having a little piece of something special. And I think Topps, is really positioned to be in a spot to where they can help us do that.

When you think about your current Pacers collection, maybe talk about some of the of your favorite cards. Like, what are the cards that are, like, on your Mount Rush more at the top of the list?

So I mentioned, kind of that o two to o six era earlier, and that's really my favorite era, of Pacers basketball and collecting and, just the sets and some of the things that came out.

So, now granted, I don't wanna go back and watch games from that era. It's pretty ugly. So I'm I'm not asking people to do that today, but that's just my favorite era. Just kinda where I was at in life and where the team was at.

So, there is a and and I've talked about it before, but a 02/2005 FLIR Fresh Inc '5 on five Prime Relic. So it's it's 10 patches on this card. The five on the front are are well, it's the pistons, unfortunately, are on the front.

The Pacers are on the back, And that card, does not have Ron Artest, does not have Stephen Jackson, does not have Jermaine O'Neal, but that's because they were part of the the brawl, the mouse in at the Palace.

So, that card to me is is very representative of that time and of that year in collecting. And, it's just an insanely cool card.

It just mixes so many things that I like. Relic, scarcity, Reggie Miller's on there, the fierce rivalry. I hate the Pistons. I still hate the Pistons. I do like Kate Cunningham, but I hate the Pistons.

So that that is, is always going to be my number one, and I've had people reach out to me. Some of the messages I get are funny. Like, someone's like, hey. I'm working on a project, and I would really like that card.

And it's like, like like, this is literally my favorite card, and I've never even, like, I've never even seen you post anywhere. This is literally my favorite card. This is a giant ask. I don't know if you understand that.

So I'm nice about it. I'm gracious about it. So that's my number one. My number two is and these aren't necessarily my favorites in order. A Reggie Miller two thousand, two thousand one Topps chrome final piece patch number to 25.

It's the first year that Topps did prime patches for the NBA finals. Just so happened to be the only year that our favorite franchise made the NBA finals.

And, you know, the the franchise, the marquee player, Reggie Miller, so it's it's his patch from that set. And then, the third one I'll give you is a Larry Bird autograph, on a David Harrison rookie.

It's a a set call from 02/2004 called FLIR Authentic's ticket to the pros, where it had either a coach, or an executive autograph on it for the, a draft pick from that year.

And when Ron Artest, decided to punch on some fans, they decided they weren't gonna make cards of him for the rest of that season.

So, I actually collected Ron Artest at that time, and I decided, well, I guess I need a new player collection in the meantime. So for me, it was David Harrison.

That was the Oh my god. That, yeah, that was the Pacers rookie that year. And and, you know, we talked about full circle moments. He's he's actually been on the show. So that was a really cool moment for me.

But, so they made this David Harrison card with the Larry Bird autograph as an executive. So it's a a Larry Bird Pacers autograph, from the I I don't I can't say playing days, executive days, whatever you wanna say.

I know that that Panini's made a couple Larry Bird Pacers autograph since then. This is one that was, you know, current at the time, so that was a really cool card for me. You said Mount Rushmore, there's four heads on there.

I'm gonna give you one more. And, this is a more modern card, a twenty twenty one, twenty two National Treasures colossal patch one zero one of Roy Hibbert, but it is the Mel Simon tribute patch that they wore in, I believe, 02/2009.

And, Mel and Herb Simon essentially saved the Pacers, after Slick saved them prior to that.

But they saved the Pacers again. They bought the team. They kept them in Indianapolis. Herb's son, I think, is going to keep them in Indianapolis as well, Steve Simon.

And, they have meant so much to that city. And to get a a card, a jumbo patch of a, player that I really liked, Roy Hibbert, that's commemorating Mel, so many years after he wore the card. I mean, it just came out of nowhere.

So, that is probably the fourth one on my Mount Rushmore. Awesome set of cards. Maybe before I let you get out of here, we go through these phases and we're going through one right now where our team is, you know, on the brink.

We're trying to figure out what's next. Obviously, we want to dive in and connect our collecting with our fandom and enjoy these runs. Like, what this time around and maybe it's from last season too.

Like, what maybe there are a lot of listeners out there who are lucky their team's lucky enough to go on some of these runs, and they're trying to navigate how they express their, you know, collection collecting when they're on the runs.

Like, what sort of advice would you maybe share with everyone as you're as a collector who's currently going through that?

I think it's okay to, to be excited and to collect excited, if that makes sense. I do think you need to set parameters.

I think it's okay to break your own rules every now and then, but I think there has to be a good reason to do so. And, obviously, never overextend yourself. But most importantly, just have fun with it.

Like, don't let other people dictate the things that you like. And that's been one of my collecting rules for a long time now. I'm not gonna like something just because someone else says that I should.

I'm gonna like the things that I actually like. And if you don't know what you like, then use this as a as a good time to experiment a little bit. Don't go crazy. Right? Still stay within your means, but experiment a little bit.

Find out what you like. And if you do lose some money here and there, chalk it up as an experience cost because that's valuable knowledge that's going to save you money in the long run.

Right? Me buying those Malcolm Progden cards has saved me money in the long run because, you know, that $20 or whatever I spent at the time because this stuff wasn't very much, has saved me a lot in the present time.

So, that would be my my best piece of advice, I think, going forward.

Kyle, host the Wax Museum podcast. You can find it wherever you listen to hobby podcast. Kyle, I hope the next time we do one of these or we chat in the DMs, it's we're happy about about that.

But, you know, but we'll we'll see. We'll see. We're fans. We can't I can't we can't control everything. We just have to sit and watch what's coming at us. Right. Yeah.

I I know I've got this crusty exterior on today. I actually did enjoy this, Brett, and I I hope that, came through with my answers here. But, yeah, I had a lot of fun. I appreciate you bringing me back on the show, and, let's go Pacers.