What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Cards in Hand brought to you by my good friends at eBay here on the Stacking Slabs Network. I'm Brett, and I am so excited to share today's conversation with you.

Hopefully, you had a chance to check out episode one with Chris McGill where we covered his ninety eight ninety nine upper deck Michael Jordan gold one of one two thirty a.

Such a fun conversation. This experience, recording these episodes at the National, was so rewarding from a content perspective and a relationship perspective.

And I wanted to make this series as diverse as possible. And we're going soccer cards today. I reached out to one of my oldest friends here in the hobby, Rodman at Rodman PC.

We've been interacting online for six years now and it seems like every opportunity we've had to meet each other, we've been like boats passing in the night.

We've missed each other and so I reached out to him to do this series. One, because he's an incredible collector and has awesome cards.

But two, I knew it would ensure us the chance to meet face to face for the first time. And I did not regret it. In this conversation, Rodman talks about his 2016 Select Lionel Messi Black Prism One of One PSA eight.

And I'm gonna tell you all this. This card, having it in front of me, even when it was sitting down on the table as we were talking, it it was beaming up to me.

The shine, the checkerboard pattern. One of the coolest cards that I got a chance to talk about at the National was a soccer card and I didn't expect that.

And I think that's why these conversations are so fun. You don't really know how powerful a card can be until it is staring at you right in the face.

You're gonna really enjoy this conversation with Rodman. Again, I wanna thank eBay for showing their support for Cards in Hand and supporting Stacking Slabs.

This was a blast to have. Also, shout out Card Ladder for letting us host these chats and their boosts. This is Rodman at Rodman PC talking about the 2016 Select Lionel Messi Black Prism one of one.

Let's get into it. Alright. Excited for this next episode of Cards in Hand brought to you by my good friends at eBay. We're doing this live at the card ladder booth here at the National.

This is the first soccer card conversation, and I'm really excited to talk with today's collector. And I'll say we've interacted online for a long time, but finally Two years. We're here at the national getting to meet in person.

We've missed each other at the national so many years, but I am here with Rodman at Rodman's PC. And we're gonna talk Messi. Of course, if you follow Rodman, you probably figured we're talking Messi. We'll get into the card in a minute.

But, Rodman, welcome. How are you doing, man? Red, first of all, thank you for having me. It was a couple years back when I came to your podcast. Been a huge follower of you in your in your work for years.

I'm a subscriber. Yes. And, I've been sharing this journey with you in a way because you always you always hit those spots and with your podcast, and we always grab some inspiration from there.

And and, obviously, we we relate with all the content you put out, and, it's really refreshing to to have that space and actually zoom out from your day to day activities and just focus on you, putting out your ideas, what's in your head out there.

And it's it's it's amazing because, like I said, I mean, you can relate and get inspiration as well. I love it. Appreciate that feedback.

I wanna I wanna dig into when I we first met, I just knew you as, like, a Jordan collector. And you were in this crew of Jordan collectors, and then time passed, and then you got into messy. Talk about that transition.

Like, what were the reasons why? How did it come to be? Yeah. Well, I get that asked a lot. Like, when I when I started shifting from from Jordan to Messi, people wouldn't understand that when it started happening.

To me, it felt way more I don't know if familiar is the the right word, but I could like, what I had been doing with with my Jordan collection for so many years, it felt, like, natural.

I think that's the word. So it didn't feel exactly like a transition. It's just because I was still collecting, and that was the main focus, since day one. Like, when I started, with my messy collection, it was still passion driven.

It was still it was still like a it felt like a new world was opening up to me. Because, you know, us collectors, we we tend to go into these rabbit holes and and just never pull our heads out of it out of it.

And, it kinda made me realize, like, alright. You you you've learned so much about a player, about a market, about an era in cards, and there's so many so many other things out there.

Like, when I when I started with Messi, it it I thought all everything I've learned for ten years was gonna be the same and figured it was totally the opposite.

It's like all the structure that you had in other other sports, like like NFL, like, NBA cards, it didn't it didn't apply to the soccer world because it was totally different. Like, you don't have RPAs.

Game use patches in soccer are so rare. And in in basketball and football, you have them every year, and they've been around for, I don't know, twenty years. So it's like, oh, it's just another NT. It's just another, immaculate.

It's just another flawless. It's it's just another so with soccer, it's it it was it was so different. But at the same time, you know, I try to try to enjoy myself first, make sure to have fun while while I'm doing what I'm doing.

And, yeah. I mean, I'm having fun. So the the when you started collecting Messi, I had followed soccer cards and the soccer card market, and I would imagine the opportunity to buy in and buy the cards that you got early.

Like, those same opportunities don't present themselves today. Not saying you don't still pick up cards, but more along the lines of, like, it was early in the the values and the market was less mature than it is now.

What is that experience been like kind of growing your collection as the soccer market and the soccer collector base continues to grow?

Yeah. Everyone okay. Everyone that learns that I started with soccer thinks that I was really early on. Not I don't I don't think I don't think that way.

You know? Because there's always someone who was actually first or first in you. Right? So a lot of these cards, like, if you look back, like, when they were released, like, you know, everything 2020 after 2020 blew up.

So it's kinda hard to think, like, looking back, like, you're early on it, because it's probably someone was there first.

But I think I got into it in a level in which I think I made some people in the space uncomfortable because they they didn't know exactly what I was doing.

Because I wasn't looking to get bargains or get good deals. I just wanted to get deals done and get the cards that I really wanted.

I'm thankful for Jordan for that because, obviously, I moved I moved my collection, and that gave me the necessary means to make all the deals that I really wanted to actually happen.

And now, let's say, thirty years I mean, I started thirty three years ago. I started three years ago, sorry, with my messy collection.

Now, looking back, it's like it feels rewarding to actually you you when you believe in something, in this hobby, and and it actually, you see the crowd following afterwards, it's like it's rewarding in a way, in a sense.

And it's part of the the, you know, the the the satisfaction of of being a collector.

It's like, okay, I saw that before a lot of people, and now it's it's a real realization, and and it's a reality. And it kinda feels that way right now.

I think from my observation as someone who doesn't collect soccer cards, I'm not sure there's a category outside of maybe basketball with Jordan where one player is so influential amongst the collector base, where I have conversations with soccer card collectors, and I don't care what they collect, what sets, what players.

Everyone I talk to has a Messi in their collection.

And it's like, you start to have enough of these conversations and, you know, Messi's the greatest player and the accolades and everything, but then to have collectors from all across the community, just everyone wants a Messi card.

Like, what what is that like for you to observe as a primary Messi collector to know that this player is transcendent. There's not a more transcendent player, I think, in the hobby than Messi. Yeah.

I mean, it feels like that right now because I I believe, like, the opportunity for for The US market to actually have a visual of what Messi could do on a pitch, him moving to MLS kinda, like, boosted that and helped helped, like alright.

Because because he was playing in Europe, and most of his game are probably on odd schedules on weekends here, and probably most people didn't have a chance to actually see him perform.

But to us that were there since day one, like, I remember watching, I've been a Barcelona fan since I was a kid.

So it's it was very familiar because I was at the same time watching Barcelona games and watching Jordan play. And, Messi obviously came came into the scene around 02/02/2006.

So I've been I've been I've been a cult follower of his since day one. It's like and and watching him become into what he has become has been very rewarding in a way and very special because you've been to the ups and downs.

You've been watching him struggle like he did with Argentina because that was I mean, he went to so many finals and couldn't win a chip for for Argentina, and and he finally did it.

And I don't know, just experiencing that and having other people that are not or weren't there when all of that happened actually acknowledge it and have some admiration and respect for for his craft.

It feels great. I, I've been to a lot of sporting events in my life, seen a lot of all time greats. And when I was in college, somehow got my professor to sign off on me doing a study abroad in Barcelona.

And I, same time, Messi, Ronaldinho went to the stadium, saw a game, and the experience was, the whole thing was unlike there was a craze. There was a frenzy, and Messi was emerging.

And, I don't know if I could, like, spot saying this guy is going to be, like, the the guy, but you could definitely feel this buzz around him at that time. And it's just as a non soccer card collector who casually watches soccer.

I find it so interesting in talking with collectors like you about this player that I saw, you know, decade plus ago in, like, the early stage of his career, score a goal and, the the match that I saw.

And it's just it's fun to see him being collected by collectors like you who appreciate him like you do.

Yeah. You know, there's been books written about his his years in Barcelona. It's like it was it was such a, I would say, like a Cinderella story in a way, because he left Argentina, like, really young.

He had a growth deficiency, that he he had to actually take shots in his, like, like, daily just to to actually grow and try it, get to a height that he could actually be a professional player.

Because, you can look back at his footage or videos from when he was, like, six or seven. He would play, like, in, like, on ground pitches in Argentina, and he would play the same.

It was like you can watch him, like, that little kid, like, tiny kid with a huge ball dribbling out of three, four defenders, and finishing off with a incredible goal or a great assist, he never changed.

And I think, that's part of the beauty of of sports. It's like, we can connect and relate. We can follow, and we can collect it at the same time, and and share it that way, and have that connection with the player.

It's it's really rewarding and satisfying. And like you said, seeing other collectors now recognizing soccer, which for years Yes. It was looked upon like, that's not gonna stick.

Like, even even Panini, if you look back, they were dishing out products, and they were they weren't bringing them back. They would they would put out twenty sixteen Flawless, and they only did that one year.

Didn't bring it back. Like, why? It's like so it's like, but it's fun. I'm having fun. I'm enjoying the ride, and, I love sharing it with other people as well.

So your collection is insane. Like, anyone who follows you on Instagram and I'm looking at your case of cards, they're looking at it ahead of it, and I'm like, this is crazy.

And when I reached out to you, I was like said, oh, what about these cards? And you're like, let's talk about this card. And I I have it in my hand.

It's the 2016 Select, Messi, black prism one of one. The in the BARSA kit, just it's got the you, I was just talking to you about comparing it to the, it's got the checkerboard aesthetic, which you see in some x fractures.

I mean, this card is mesmerizing as I'm holding it. Why was this the car that you wanted to talk about?

Alright. You mentioned some some aspects from the car that really stand out, like the visual on it, the pattern. It's like, you don't have we don't have many of that in in recent products.

They've they've they've in a way, I can relate to, like, what what I used to collect with MJ. It's, like, that rarity aspect, that aesthetic aspect that really makes you go or gives you that reaction when you see a card.

And we tend to go to, like, these these weird, like, ultra thought out aspects of a card. Like, I was showing it to Chris earlier, and he was, like first thing he was asking, like, how many other one on ones are there?

Like, these traits that gives it some stand like, how do you say that? Status. Yeah. Amongst the other one on ones, and it kinda, like, checks all those boxes.

It's it's an early, early, product. Is I believe this was second year Select. The first year, they only did, country uniforms. So that he's in Argentina. This was one of his first, like, true black prism one o ones in a Barcelona.

It's also playing day. And he's rocking yellow hair. Yeah. He was actually blonde for years. It looks different. I'm not sure I've ever seen another yellow hair, blonde, Messi card.

I don't like for when you handed me the card originally, obviously, I'm looking at it. It's on the table right now, not in hand, and it's literally stunning. Like, the light is shining on it.

But when you handed it to me, I was like, is that Messi? I was like, he knows we're talking about Messi. Right? But it is. It's just I'm not used to him with the blonde. And there's there's other other cards of him when he was blonde.

They just stand out. They just it's probably not one of the biggest traits from the card, but it's it's it's a very unique thing because because he only wore that for, like, six months or something like that.

Yeah. So when how important to you in this quest and getting all these messies and having this incredible collection?

How important to you is, like like, I enjoy this card because I can look at it when it's sitting on a table and the light it's like, I don't need to move it around.

I can just move my head, and I can see this light refracting off of it. So, like, the aesthetic is really strong.

Like, how important to you is, like, in your collecting the appearance of photography, the aesthetics? It's super important, especially when when you have other other iterations of of a of a product or of a card of his.

There's obviously other select blacks, but this one stands out. Like like you can see like, we're looking at it right now. It's like wherever you look at it, it just shines.

It's it's it's one of those cards that has has a good balance of of shine and, you know, it's got that mystic part of of which some cards just have and others don't. It's just, like, it's mystical in a way.

Yes. It's just, like, mesmerizing. And I think it's got all of that. I'm probably biased, but, we we we're all all with all parts. So I wanna hit on one thing you mentioned earlier that I don't wanna brush past.

But, like, the navigation between the club, like, a player like Messi with his club kid on versus the international team. Like, what have you what appeals to you more as a collector?

Do you like the, the the team, like, the the, international team versus the club team? Like and then what do you observe with other collectors in this space, especially with Messi collecting?

Yeah. You know, I can connect more with a Barcelona card than an Argentina card because I was a Barcelona fan before he got to Barcelona.

So that has the extra component of that connection and everything. I actually started following Argentina because of him and trying to follow his his journey with with his with his with his country.

So I think that's different in a way because I already had passion with Barcelona and love for the team. And with Argentina, kinda, like, had to build up.

And in a way, you know, winning is important. He didn't win for a long time. And he when he actually did, kinda, like, everyone started, like, alright. Maybe maybe Argentina kids are undervalued, and we should we should get into that.

Right? So I think, he spent, like I'm I'm not sure how many years, like, eighteen years in Barcelona. Like, he came really young. So that so that connection's there.

It's like, I don't think Argentina would've would've happened if if it was not for for Barcelona. So I I I tend to value, Barcelona card highly than Argentina, but, you know, the ultimate prize is the World Cup in a way.

So I can understand if other other collectors think otherwise. This card is absolutely stunning. I before we close this out, I wanna ask you because I think this would be important for anyone listening. Like you made a key decision.

Your key decision was I am moving out of Michael Jordan and I am moving into messy. Like there has been so many collectors listening to this. I have thought about that. Like, I have spent all this time collecting this player.

I'm involved in this community. But then there's this other player who I love even more and that that is, like, I've grown more fond, but they're maybe scared to make the decision and transition.

Like, I wish we could document all the moves you made that led you to, like, this card and all the rest of your messy cards, but, like, what feedback would you give to someone who is trying to transition from one high profile athlete to another?

You know, there's a there's a quote that we all use. It's, like, collect what you like. And in a way, I think you have to be true to yourself with that.

And it's okay to eventually move out of something and start something fresh. It's like there's no rules in the hobby that say that you have to stick to whatever you started collecting with.

Like and we all, in a way, kinda, like, impose those rules or those those those social pressures on each other, like, is it okay if I move this card, to get to, the next one?

It's like, what what what what what what are they gonna think I'm doing? Because it's it's listen. People get intrigued when when when when they see you moving out of something.

Or or even if you post, like, a it's just that maybe you're you're just you wanna consolidate onto a bigger card and you start listing some cards, they people sometimes freak out, and I don't I don't get it, to be honest.

Like, sometimes I I I try and move a card because I wanna get another one, And and people just start asking, like, why are you moving it?

It's like, why does it even matter? It's like, chill. It's like, so I think in a way, we we all gotta, like, relax a little.

Yeah. And everyone has their own right to build whatever they want in their collections. As long as you're doing it because you enjoy it and you're you wanna have fun doing it, it's it's totally fine.

It's, like, it it's not easy sometimes because I'm not I'm not gonna say moving out of my Jordans was easy. But I think collecting Messi, it made it made it easier in a way because I was it was also passion driven.

So I I was I felt like I was I was doing the right thing in my mind, in my heart, in which if they all ran to zero, I'd be happy holding them because the passion's still there.

Amazing card. Awesome collection. Great collector. Rodman, I'm glad we could not only meet in person, but record this episode. Happy national to you. Thanks so much for sharing. Thank you for having me. That was such a fun conversation.

It was awesome meeting Rodman, doing some content with him, and running through his incredible collection when we were not hitting record. One of the premier messy collectors in the world. Hopefully, you all enjoyed this conversation.

Thank you so much for supporting Stacking Slabs, tuning in and sharing these episodes. Thank you so much to eBay for supporting this series. We'll be back with more cards in hand next week. Take care, and talk to you soon.