Welcome to a brand new mini series that is going to be dropped every Thursday for the next seven weeks called Cards in Hand.

Cards in Hand is brought to you by my good friends at eBay, the biggest and best place to buy trading cards in the entire universe. Cards in hand was a thought that I had leading up into the national.

This was going to be an opportunity for me to be in the same room with so many collectors that I engage with, and these collectors were bringing their collections or picking up big cards at the show.

So what would it be like if I got an opportunity to have a conversation with those collectors in person at the National and talk about one specific card, and we accomplished that.

It was a full day of conversations. I wanna thank Card Ladder for giving us the space to have those conversations.

It was one of my favorite, content projects that I've ever worked on since starting Stacking Slabs, and I'm really excited to share these with you on a weekly basis for the next seven weeks.

We are starting this mini series off with my good friend, one of the cofounders at Card Ladder, Chris McGill. And he is talking about his 1998, 1999 Michael Jordan, upper deck gold, one of one, number two thirty a.

Now I'd seen this card when he posted it online, but this was a classic case of not getting the full picture until you see this card in hand.

And I'll tell you, I told this to Chris, and some of this comes out in the conversation. This card was above and beyond what I expected when I saw it upfront.

From the tint on the card to some of the details with the gold borders, this card was a reminder of why I wanted to do this series, and that's why I wanted to kick off this mini series featuring this MJ card.

Again, shout out to eBay. This series is not possible without my friends at eBay supporting it. I wanna thank all of you for all of your passion and feedback when it comes to what we're building and creating it on Stacking Slabs.

But let's get to it. It is the first episode of Cards in Hand featuring the ninety eight ninety nine Michael Jordan Upper Deck Gold one of 01/02/1930 a.

Let's get into it. Alright. Welcome back to another episode of Cards in Hand brought to you by my good friends at eBay happening at the National in the card ladder booth. We've already hosted one of the founders of Card Ladder.

We're hosting another who's we have to we have to have Michael Jordan as a part of this conversation. Michael Jordan is, what many say, starts and stops the hobby. So this is a cool card we're gonna be talking about.

And we'll introduce the card here in a second, but I'm joined by Chris Miguel. Chris, we're in your space, which I would say, I walked up first first, like, contact I made with the booth.

I was like, you know what? Kinda reminds me of an Apple store a little bit. I remember the first National or so I when I knew you, I walked up to a table that just had, like, one pop up banner.

So, things are a little different. How has this experience been at the National for you so far? Been a great experience. We're in a calmer section of the show floor.

Not that we're, lacking for traffic, but it's a little bit calmer over here. So it's nice. There's not, we're not packed like sardines in between booths. This is our first piece of content live together Yes.

Which, you know, I don't know. We've probably done A lot. Dozens, possibly. Yeah. More than Yeah. I would maybe, a lot. A lot. It's hard to even contemplate. We've been talking about cards digitally for four or five years.

So it's very cool. It's it's it's an honor to be here. It's an honor to host you at the booth to make this content. And, yeah, man. Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan cards? We can talk about how long do you have?

I I you're probably gonna have a lot to say. So let me, like, I'll set the stage here, and I want I wanna start here. I've been listening to your content, you talking about Jordan and getting reacclimated with Jordan cards.

Maybe talk about that. You started collecting Jordan inserts, and then you dove in, and you picked up some Jordan grails, and then COVID happened.

Prices went up, and I would you veered off into other more modern and ultramodern collecting paths. But now you've returned to Michael Jordan collecting. What has that experience been like for you? Reinvigorating.

And I I think there's something natural about the path of, going back and forth between different player PCs, different types of cards to collect. You know, I've I've probably spent the last half decade really focused on active players.

And then it's just a really it's a it's a different collecting mind state to return to collecting somebody who's retired and who I'm not gonna watch, you know, 82 times a year if it's basketball or, you know, hopefully 20 times a year if it's NFL.

But instead somebody whose career is completely behind them. And and it changes the focus, you know. When you when you when I'm collecting active, I'm very focused on evaluating players as well as cards.

And when I'm collecting a retired player, much more of the focus turns into the card and checklists and how does this card relate to all the other cards that the player has.

So it's been nice to sort of shift my my equation back to the to the the most heavily weighted variables being all focused on what's the card. And the variable's not so important. Who's the player? The player's legacy is cemented.

It's not changing. So there's a fun part about, let's just say, Christian McCaffrey. There's a fun part of collecting Christian McCaffrey because when it's Sunday, you get to watch Christian McCaffrey play.

And and the build up before Sunday, there are podcasts and people talking about the game plan versus the opponent and how Christian McCaffrey factors in.

And then you get to watch him on Sunday score touchdowns, and you get this moment of euphoria, and you're like, go over to your case, and you're like, this is amazing.

Like, I'm so glad I collected this player. He's so exciting. That doesn't happen with these guys that retired. We're left with conversations with other collectors of these these players, maybe YouTube highlights, documentaries.

There's a big mindset shift. You've toggled back and forth, and you're talking a little bit about that between the active and the the retired front.

What what do you find is there one you find more satisfying than the other, or do both kinda have their own benefits?

So I'm so glad you brought up the podcast of it all because we're in the summer months right now. So there's really not any, you know, super interesting, compelling podcast for any of the NBA or the NFL teams that I follow.

But when the season picks back up again, my content menu is going to be all that stuff. And that's that's something that was just sort of out of sight and out of mind.

But as you mentioned it, like, that is one of the absolute best parts about collecting active players is that you just have this constant stream of information and content that relates to the players that you're collecting.

And that's that's a huge perk.

That's one thing I like about the football card podcast is that you guys are diving back into, you know, statistics of retired players and bringing back highlight reels and memories and iconic games and iconic plays and, you know, who's the guy who you guys are just mentioning has the most 60 plus yard touchdowns?

Deshaun Jackson. Okay. So that says it's something I didn't know. He's obviously a retired player.

And, and and if there was more content like that that talked about the history, I I think that would that would pull me even more into, collecting retired players because of the content of it all. So that that is a huge shift.

And like during the summer, it it feels like even. You know, like collecting Michael Jordan versus collecting active players because neither one is really pumping out content that's that's, that's coming into my feed right now.

But but that will change when the seasons start. And then, yeah, the you sort of you get distracted.

You get you get pulled back into the active players. So that's something that's interesting too about retired players is sort of like, if there is an off season, that's almost the time when you're like, okay.

I can I can ease into those guys during my off season? Then when the season starts back up, my attention goes back into, you know, watching these these active guys build their careers.

So, was it last last dance, you know, during COVID, it was almost like that was almost like watching Jordan play again in an odd way because, everyone was dying for content, and then everyone wanted to run and buy his cards.

And all the prices were crazy for all of his stuff. When was that in that moment where you did you put Jordan on pause because you're building card ladder, you were looking at the trends and the values?

Was it was that like the moment you kinda paused on your Jordan collecting or was it something else? Well, the freeze out is is what what was such a factor too.

Like, the last dance documentary had been in production long before there was any thought to the pandemic, stay at home orders, the cancellation, or this this is the suspension of professional sports seasons.

So the fact that the release of that documentary just so and and they moved it up, but but, they expedited its its its final stages of production so that they could release it.

But the fact that it was released and it and it wasn't competing against the NBA finals or the NBA playoffs, and it it wasn't competing against the MLB season.

It wasn't competing against the Stanley Cup or the NHL playoffs. It was literally the premier piece of sports content and the really the only thing approximating a live viewing experience for sports that could happen.

That was serendipitous. That you couldn't plan that, and it just put all eyes on Michael Jordan. And we saw multiples on Jordan cards, and you're exactly right.

That's when card ladder was in development. So it actually worked out pretty well to to take a pause from Jordan collection at that time because, you know, I we were we were covering it too with House of Jordan.

Like, as it was happening, that was like that April, May, June area. That those are some of the final months of the House of Jordan's podcast before card ladder stuff just completely took over.

And it was just, it was it was stunning. I mean, there are some cards of Michael Jordan that that probably still haven't returned to where they peaked during that last dance release.

There's others that have, you know, blown past the last dance. But What what we're gonna get into the card, I promise.

But what was it like for you, like, when you had to put a pause on a lane? Obviously, Jordan being your favorite player. Was it just this is outside of my my my prize zone? I need to just think about something else?

Like, I I this has happened to me with certain players where it's like, this just seems like it's too high. Maybe share some perspective there on you making the decision that I'm not gonna go chase in this moment.

Yeah. It's it's a frustrating moment. But but as time passes, you also realize that there's always other cards waiting to be discovered.

That's sort of a that's sort of a foreshadowing of, I think, the card that we're gonna talk about. I think so. But, but there's there's always that. But, but you know, there it's all that's also a time to enjoy what I already have.

That's also a time to to just, like, maybe, you know, in in instead of, instead of trying to add something new to the to the shoe box, just enjoy what's already in it.

And just just, just sit on the sidelines for a little while. That's that's there there have been several times when I should have sat on the sidelines for longer, but you can't know that, at the time.

But but, but, you know, and then and then just like with anything, when you if you when you take a break and you come back to it, you you come back refreshed, you come back with new perspectives, and you come back energized.

So, you know, I but but it at the end of the day, it's tough.

It's tough to to to try and collect in a in a in a manic moment. And and you sort of know that it's a manic moment and but but but, you know, it's everybody's going through that.

Everybody's competing all of a sudden for the same cards. It's it gets it's tough. I don't know if this is formal or informal, but I look at this card and this to me is kind of the return of Chris McGill to Michael Jordan collecting.

And the card I have here, which there's so many questions, and I can't wait to get into it, is the $19. 98 upper deck Michael Jordan gold, one of one, two thirty a PSA five, which I believe just got graded. Yep. On sites.

And I was telling Chris, and what you'll see video and we'll have clips on Instagram at stacking slabs, but when I've just seen photos of this, but seeing this card in hand for the first time, like, my initial reaction is, like, there is this, like, nineties tint to it, and I don't even know how to describe it.

But, like, this card instantly brings me back to the nineties. Maybe it's to Jordan Pose, but just it's got this, like, I don't know, aesthetic about it that's very nineties in nature.

So what Chris is a one of one. It's a Michael Jordan. You obviously are a one of one collector. You're bringing one of one collecting to your Michael Jordan collecting. You mentioned, like, discovery of new cards.

This is a card that inset that outside of you buying them and posting them, I had zero idea about. Although I'm not a Jordan collector, I feel like I should have a pretty decent pulse on his catalog.

Talk about this card. Let's start, like, just let let us have it. Like, why this card? Why this collecting? Share it with us. I love that you had the comments about the aesthetic.

That's what you said as soon as, like, we looked at it together in person. That is the same I almost an identical series of thoughts ran through my head when that package arrived here from Japan about two months ago.

I literally I held it. I said, this card, like, it has a vibe. It has a theme to it. It has, a a sheen over it. Yes. It's a sheen.

And like the thing that it made me think of was like a like a like a a hole in the wall card shop that you might have seen in a strip mall in in a on a random city block during the height of the of the nineteen nineties sports card boom.

And and you can picture that sports card in your mind. So there's there's sort of a haze in the room and there's there's all these five rows and shoe boxes scattered all over the place.

Maybe a burning cigarette in the background. Like an ashtray with with with a cigarette yet to be fully put out. Just just a small trail of smoke.

And and there is there's just just this there's just this veneer. There's just this vibe that emanates from this card that just as soon as I saw it, like, it it it like you could you could smell it on the card.

You could just the card is just this this late nineties relic of of that whole mystique, and this card had it.

And I I I couldn't tell that it had that when I saw the the scans of it. It was only when I had it in hand. I was like, man, this and it's it's it's it's it's in the gold.

It's like in that in the gold foil, the sheen that it has, the way that it glistens in the light, it just it's something about it is muted and dull and like the picture is just it's just such a the card is a vibe.

So I'm glad you started with the aesthetic because, it has this aesthetic that that just jumps out at you when you see it.

And then the story behind the card sort of where it relates to Michael Jordan's catalog, and this is what kind of makes Michael Jordan collecting exciting, is that there are opportunities to reinvent approaches to Michael Jordan because his catalog is so big and so diverse.

And there's so many different ways to attack it. You know, some guys attack it from the eighties point of view. And they're sort of there's been a a discovery or maybe a reclamation process underway for cards like the 1984 star.

And and Michael Jordan has various cards from 1984 star. Or, you know, and then there's and there's 86 Fleer, and then there's the the the issues of Fleer that happened over the last few, you know, years of the of the eighties decade.

Then there's the nineties insert collecting, then there's the nineties parallel collecting, then there's the two thousands exquisite stuff.

There's the there's the stuff that comes out today of Michael Jordan that's that's that doesn't depict him playing but they're but they're almost they're almost a celebrity or entertainment cards of Michael Jordan.

They're Michael Jordan the the popular culture figure. There's so many different ways and and I didn't even mention the retros.

I mean, there's there's lots of different ways to attack Michael Jordan. And this is a way that really spoke to me as a consequence of spending a little over half a decade really focusing on ultra modern players.

Jokic, Luka, Levien Bell, Christian McCaffrey, Patrick Mahomes. Like these guys who have been the guys who have been collecting for the last five or six years.

And ultramodern collecting really shoved me in the direction of wanting to focus on one of ones. And people collect ultramodern in a variety of ways.

I just was talking to a collector twenty minutes ago who came over, and he had a stack of Luka Dontrej cards. And every and the thing that tied all them together was they were all number 77 of x.

So he's a guy who just collects 77 of one ninety nine, 77 of one twenty five, whatever. He had a whole stack of them. And and that's, you know, that's that's that's that's kinda similar to one of one collecting.

105 100 and it makes you're you're buying these less expensive cards, but in your in your own way, you're curating and building this collection that no one else is really thinking about at that moment in that time because we're all focused on the one of ones and the gold.

It was it was exactly. It was so cool. It was such a creative way to approach things.

And ultra modern like it really it it compels you to get creative and to find niches and to find logics of collecting to orchestrate your collection and your expression of how you collect through the the cards that you pick.

And so I brought all of that experience that I accumulated and transposed it onto Michael Jordan collecting.

And the thing that immediately left out to me that would have never occurred to me as a as a Michael Jordan collector of nineties nostalgia, which is what I was when I first came back, Then I was focusing on the shiniest, most beautiful, big, bold, these are nineties Michael Jordan inserts.

These are nineties Michael Jordan parallels. And I loved collecting that stuff and I still do. But but now I brought this whole different point of view back to it.

And the cards that jumped out to me were his nineties one of ones. And as soon as I sort of made that connection, it it happened first in my mind. And and it happened over time.

But it's not every day that a Michael Jordan one of one is just gonna show up. So there was this serendipitous moment when this particular card, this 98 upper deck Jordan, this is card two thirty a, the gold one of one.

When it showed up on Instagram, several people sent it to me. The first person, second I was like, oh, that's cool, but that's not my lane. And then like, by the time maybe the third person sends it to me, I was like, wait a minute.

This is this is the card. This is this is like literally this is the card that I've been waiting for that I didn't even know that I was waiting for.

It was just sort of all of this was happening in my head in the background, some somewhere under the conscious level.

And so then I reached out immediately. I made a I made an offer immediately. I I explained to the person, you know, how much this card has has intrigued me, my history as a Michael Jordan collector.

And they said, yeah. They said, I I will sell it to you. And they gave me the coolest backstory to the card, the provenance of it.

The seller had purchased it on a Japan auction website in 2003 and had that card in their possession for twenty two years. Never graded. Never had been seen. Nobody knew where this card was.

And then it just shows up on this Instagram page. And so, yeah. It was it was just like it was a really it was an inflection point in my collecting arc, was this arc was this card showing up at that time, then me being able to buy it.

And then it sent me down the rabbit hole of Michael Jordan nineties one of one collecting, which, you know, I'm I'm a 100 feet into that rabbit hole now. I wanna I wanna talk about that, but I wanna talk about the image on the card.

So I believe you figured out exactly the clip of where this was taken from. But to bring listeners in, I'm looking at the card. I have it in my hand, and you can't get more Michael Jordan than this shot here. Jordan is in the air.

He's got the ball. He's palming the ball, getting ready to take it to the rim. He's got his mouth open. You're just, like, almost waiting for him to stick his tongue out in a way, but he's wearing the iconic red jerseys.

I believe he's in Charlotte. Is that Charlotte Hornets' floor? You nailed it. Okay. But, yeah, it's just, like, from a photography perspective, it's about as cool as it gets. So maybe, like, take us into this moment.

Yeah. Let me tell you about the moment. So first of all, astute observation that the mouth is open is and you're expecting the Jordan tongue, but it never shows up. Very few cards have Jordan with the tongue out.

I believe it was, it was at his request or the players association request that he not be shown with his tongue out. So they photoshopped the tongue out. It's like it's almost like, Griffey in the back or its hat.

It's like the Griffey collectors look for the back or its hat cards because there's not so many. Are there any Jordan tongue out cards? There probably are maybe a few that slipped through cracks but there's very, very few.

You just you won't see many if any that have the tongue out and that that was on purpose. So the photograph itself comes from, if memory serves, game four round two nineteen ninety eight playoffs.

Okay. In Charlotte, this particular play, Jordan steals a pass that was intended, I think, for Glenn Rice, runs down the field or I'm sorry, down the down the floor, down the court.

And, during the break on the breakaway layup, somebody very weakly fouls him, just kind of like taps him.

You know, it's very weak foul. And so the reason why he's sort of like twisting like that is because somebody had just brushed him.

And so he's going up to complete a layup after he's sort of been nudged, after after running away on a fast break break after he stole the ball.

And he does convert the layup, and then he shoots a free throw, and he converts that too. So that's the source of the play.

And it's a really cool play because that was his final that's it's part it comes from his final playoff run as a bowl, which culminated in a championship for the Bulls and in his sixth and final finals MVP. That's it's from that run.

Incredible. I wanna talk we one is never enough even when it's a one of one. So this is open day, maybe a whole new rabbit hole for you to go down. What are you doing with this collecting? Because we like connection points.

We like a lot of different cards to all make sense. You're a Jordan collector, but you niche down. It's like I need another card to pair with this one. What has this card done for your Jordan collecting?

This card first and foremost showed me that Michael Jordan one of one collecting, even though these cards are are are much more obscure, less visible, less valuable than the rubies, the PMGs, the credentials, the big inserts, even though all that's true that, that they really speak to me and that that it's a it's a lane that I'm just incredibly excited about.

And so it it shoved me down a research rabbit hole among other things.

And and this is a research project that I've been working on sort of in the background for a few years. Even not actively collecting Michael Jordan, seeing collectors discuss and and dissect and analyze Michael Jordan's catalog.

It it started occurring to me, well, no nobody's talking about the one on ones. Like, and I understand that they're they feel very off limits. Especially the ones that that parallel the most iconic sets, like the flare showcases.

Like, there's there's there's four flare showcase one of ones of Jordan from 9798, which is the first year of one of of one of ones for Michael Jordan.

And three of them are with Nats, and the fourth one's never been seen. And if the fourth one ever is seen, Nats going to buy that. So, like, a lot of these feel very much off limits, untouchable.

And they've always felt that way, because if you if you sort of transport back to like the late nineties or early two thousands, you know, there was no Instagram, there was no Facebook, it was the early days of eBay.

It it it was it was just unthinkable that that you would ever encounter that card, that you would even encounter a piece of content discussing it.

But once it once it sort of connected me to and and once I realized I I wanna do this, that, like, it I got the card in hand, the electricity was there, the energy was there, this is really a lane and a niche that I wanna do, then I just started the research process, man.

Identifying all of them.

I I wanna I've I'm about halfway through, maybe a little bit less of identifying every Michael Jordan one of one ever made from all eras, you know, from the nineties, from the February, twenty tens, and even the the current ones.

I'm I'm about halfway through identifying all of them.

But but my focus that that that keeps me tethered is just focusing on the nineties ones. And so nineties Michael Jordan one of ones, you know, I'll I'll do I dude, literally seconds before recording this, I bought one.

I don't know if you caught that. I didn't. Yeah. Six Justin walked over here. He said, because I've been eyeing on one of, from, from nineteen ninety nine two thousand upper deck.

And, and he walked over and he said, hey, you know, basically, we've been going back and forth kinda teasing each other or whatever about that card. And then, you know, he kinda brought it up again. I was like, well, what's the price?

You know, he told me the price and I said sold. I I just bought one right before, so that's that's the tear that I'm on right now. So maybe as we're kinda rounding out this chat, I feel like something changed for you.

Like, your mindset transformed, and that's what I wanna, like, end with this. It's like, I like, a few years ago and you even questioned it as people were sending you this card. You're like, this is not my lane.

This is not my lane. But now it is your lane. Like Yeah. What changed and why did it change? Well, dude, that's such an ins that's such a good question because that moment doesn't happen very often in the, arc of a collector.

Yes. When you when you when your identity literally shifts, when that that I mean, how many how many times that happened for you?

Not very often. It, There's been a few. Yeah. There's been a few, but it yeah. It it you you we're all set in our ways. We know what we like and it stuff doesn't change too often. But yeah. Yeah. It doesn't happen very often.

And so when it does happen, I I almost think it's, I almost it's it's it's it's it happens beneath the the conscious surface, I think, first and foremost. Yeah. I think it's something that's happening in the background for a long time.

Especially, like, it's when we're new, we're much more malleable and we're much more susceptible to be very confident in our opinions. And then the deeper we get, the more we learn, the further we go.

We we go across the Dunning Kruger, charts and and we sort of we lose confidence as we learn more and then eventually we we start to gain confidence again as we learn even more.

And so I I it there's when when that flip happens, when when suddenly something clicks in the brain and it says, I have found a new niche, it resonates with me, it aligns with my collecting approaches and philosophies.

It's a it's a fant it's a it's a magical it's a it's a transcendent moment.

It's a it's a moment that doesn't happen very often. It's a scary moment. It's a moment that causes reevaluation in some sense of my entire history of collecting.

And, you know, you you run through the whole gamut of options of like, should I repurpose my entire Michael Jordan collection around this strategy now? You know, you start you get you go through all of these different things.

And one thing that I've been careful to do is to to is to preserve what I built before. Yeah. To sort of to say even though I'm not inhabiting the mindset that I once was, that that is a valid mindset.

That the logic of Michael Jordan collecting that I was practicing before is the way that more people do it than than what I'm current where I'm currently at.

So there's there's something about preserving that air of my collecting history and that school of thoughts, a, I might return to it someday, and b, it's it's something that that connects me to the to a wider group of collectors.

I come from a school of thought. I come from a tradition that I'm preserving.

But but the thought runs through your mind. Should I just turn my entire should I shift should my entire Michael Jordan collection get torn down and rebuilt under the idea of one of ones, of nineties one of ones?

And I said, no. I'm not gonna do that. But I don't know. Maybe a year from now, you'll be talking to me and I have. But but I could say that right now, very excited about that in that moment where where a a switch flips.

You know, that's a rare that's rare when that happen. When it truly not not forcing it, but when it just true when things truly fall into place, it's rare.

I wanna close with this. We talked about active versus retired. We talked about Christian McCaffrey and getting excited for him to play and the feelings we have as collectors.

Undeniably, you have the one of one black finite Christian McCaffrey run. This might sound a little weird, but how influential is your way you've approached Christian McCaffrey in that collecting?

How influential has that been on your new approach with collecting these Michael Jordan one on ones? Very. So, like, the heart of my Christian McCaffrey collecting is keeping alive his base set Prism Black finite run.

I have eight I have all eight. And, and hopefully I only need to get maybe one more, and then we call it nine for nine and we can just stop there.

It's it's influenced on a couple of levels. First of all, it teaches me how to find them. Finding one of wands is a very different ballgame than just finding cards that generally show up in marketplaces that have multiple copies.

So like if I'm if I'm searching for, to take a Michael Jordan example, a 1998 Skybox Rubies out of 50, That card might show up once every year every two years.

I can be confident that I'll get another chance at it, but it might take a year or two. But but one will show up.

When I'm pursuing Christian McCaffrey Black finite one of ones, I I, I I don't know that it will ever show up. So the the zealousness that I pursue those with, it taught me about how to pursue Michael Jordan one of ones.

And as soon as I've discovered that I like those, I started blazing a path very similar that that where it's it's all happening behind the scenes. I'm not I'm not I'm not even I mean, I'll go I'll look at all the marketplaces.

I'll I'll but they're not gonna be on there, but I'll look. But then once they're not on there, then I start blazing the social media path. And, like, some of the approaches that I've used, and this is this is a very subtle point.

I don't necessarily say I'm looking for this. Instead, I'll go into the Michael Jordan Facebook group and I'll post one of my one of ones, and that's it. And I'll I'll clarify not for sale, not for trade, but that's it.

I'll just post it and that's it. And through that route, through the subtler route, I've had people reach out to me wanting to buy mine, and then I say, no. And then I say, and incur wait.

Do you have why do you wanna buy this? Do you have some? Yeah. Yes. Okay. I'm buying yours. And then and I've I've I've The tables have turned. The tables turned. I've acquired three one of one Jordans through that method.

Okay? So but but but the McCaffrey collecting taught me like different ways of finding them because it's really a totally different hunt trying to unearth something where I'm the predator.

I'm the aggressor. I'm on the hunt. I'm not waiting for it to come to me. I'm not waiting for somebody to present it to me. I'm not waiting for a marketplace to have it one day and I can be patient and sort of not be desperate.

No, I'm desperate. I'm I desperate the art of desperation that that McCaffrey pursuit taught me that. And the McCaffrey pursuit taught me something else probably equally as important, that it's possible.

To have hope. That it can be done. That it is possible. And so that the hope combined with the method has given me the ability to find these Michael Jordan cards whereas before I might not have even I might not have had either.

I might have been hopeless and I might not have known how to how to bring these out.

I, think the best part about this series is getting to see these cards up close and personal, and there hasn't been one that has, like, changed my perception on what I've seen online to what I'm holding in hand.

So, Chris, appreciate you talking about your one of one goal, Jordan, your story behind it, man. Thanks for having me. That was a very special conversation.

It's one I will not forget. Thank you, Chris and Card Ladder for hosting and sharing so much passion when it comes to your collections and cards. Special thank you to eBay for supporting Stacking Slabs and Cards in Hand.

Definitely hit the follow button if you're not already. We're gonna continue to put these out in the coming weeks, and I want you to hear them. Also, check out Instagram at stacking slabs.

We'll be posting reels featuring these cards. You can see it at a greater detail. Shout out to my man, John at Pack Nicholson, for helping make this all possible. You all take care. We'll talk to you soon.