Alright. I was just talking with today's guest, that it's been we were just catching up before we hit record, and we're not gonna share all those conversations.

But it's been since October 2023, and I was having a moment. I was like, man, I'm thinking a lot about just, like, veering off into some other lanes and identifying cards that are good places to store value.

And immediately, I thought of Joey, at the etrader, and I just wanna talk about the topic. I think it'll be fun to revisit. We've talked about it in the history of the show, but maybe not as focused as we are today.

But, Joey, a lot has changed in your life since we last spoke, but how's it going, man? Everything's great, brother. I can't believe when you when you texted me that it was 2023 is the last time we spoke.

I I figured, well, I know you rubbed elbows with the the high and mighty now. So you might have forgot me, but I appreciate you reaching out. I I'm I'm certainly, gone but not forgotten, and I'm glad I'm I'm glad you're back.

Let's maybe sense, you know, in the last year plus, maybe share a little bit about just your experience in the hobby. Like, what have you been looking for? What have you been after? Bought any big cards, that sort of thing. Yeah.

So so last year, actually you know, with me, it's either really big or really small. There's, like, no in between. Right? And well, to me, anyway. So so last year, I landed two really, really big ones that I had my eye on quite a bit.

So in, like, in basketball, you know, I love like, I obviously love Jordan's stuff like everybody does, but the reality is, you know, we also love the really premium, really rare stuff.

And that stuff either doesn't change hands or it's super expensive, and it's just it's just, you know, tough to get your hands on. So so for me, my second is Kobe. Right?

So so the two big Kobe cards I was able to acquire last year was the PMG red, which was the big one, and then also, a Playmakers Theater, both in PSA holders, which, you know, to me are massive gray cards to just to stock away stock away and just hold on to them.

Right? And any of those, I would say that that golden era of basketball, I mean, those low serial numbered sets, iconic sets, stuff like that is is is good stuff.

But those were, like, the two big pickups. They actually did a lot of selling last year, mainly planned sales. I think that I think the last time we spoke, we talked about that.

And anyone that's been doing this for a while remembers that PWCC bloodbath auction that was, like, November it was, like, act it was, like, September, October, November premier auctions in, like, 2022 maybe, and there was just, like, massive liquidation of of cards.

And I had purchased a a good amount of the the the some of the Tom Brady stuff.

And, you know, I I was, like, very vocal about it. And, like, look. I like these cards, but I bought them because they went for a fraction of what they should have gone.

Right? For whatever it was, somebody got forced liquidated, whatever the case may be. And I sold most of those last year, and in the beginning of this year, which, you know, I I I wanted you know, it's not that I wanted to keep them.

It's just my I had a plan when I bought them. Right? I didn't buy them to be like, hey. This is my forever home.

I bought it because I just simply saw an opportunity. That was it. And I hate to sound like that because I don't I'm not the flipper. Right? But, you know, sometimes you just gotta you see an opportunity to jump on it.

Right? I I actually like that sets the stage perfectly for this conversation because I feel like we get in this mode where we are building out these amazing collections for ourselves, and we love it.

And but, you know, we're spending a lot of money to do it.

But then, like, where I've been at recently has been like, well, what what are some opportunities where I can buy some cool cards that are outside of my personal collection, but that I appreciate, but that I'm not planning on keeping forever, but I see good opportunities, when I when I bought them.

So maybe, like, with talking about, like, those Brady examples, maybe help listeners understand, like, what was happening in the Brady market and, like, maybe the what were those profile of those cards and, like, what I know you buy a lot of Tom Brady stuff, but, like, what led you to say, like, this is a really good opportunity that then a year from now, I can I can sell and and be up on these things?

Yeah. So a couple things. First of all, I knew the market because I collect Tom Brady. Right? So so so that was that was a big part of it. And I watched literally every card that I'm referring to. There's only 10.

They're all gold. Right? Gold, kaboom. Gold, prism, whatever you call it. Right? That that's what they were. There's only 10. It's Tom Brady. We've watched these cards transact for $50. 60, $70. 80, $90,000 multiple times.

Whether it's the same people trading them back or selling them back and forth, who knows? But the bottom line is there were at least one, two, or three, or four other guys that were bidding just under that for who knows how long.

For three years, we saw it. Just this crazy trajectory. Right? And you know no matter what equity you're talking about, whether it's a stock, what whatever. Right?

At some point, if there's some sort of forced event or liquidation or fear in the market or whatever and too much gets pushed one out at one point one time, and people don't buy them, at some point, it's gonna trade at a higher price.

Now you may have to hold it for a year or two or three years, which the art of the hold is is obviously, you know, something to be to talk about as well. But knowing his market already, like like, the gold kaboom, for example.

Dude, I don't buy kaboom's, but I bought that one. Right? But because we're looking at a card that was straight there was someone for, like, $90. Like, over and over again, $70, whatever it was.

Okay. And all of a sudden, it sells for for 16. Right? Like and there's only 10. I mean, come on. So so being able to recognize that kind of stuff has helped me kind of build, you know, whatever.

Right? And that's just not not just in the collecting world, just things that I'm interested in, things that I read about. Being able to recognize those opportunities is super important.

But the thing is the reality is I just knew the market as a player that I liked. It it was parallels that I didn't care about, but I knew them because you follow everything else.

Right? So so so being somebody that's like, oh, well, I only click gold. That's fine. But you still know the market for that guy for the blue and the whatever else there is or even patches and stuff like that.

So if you see an opportunity, you're saying, hey. I've seen this card sell, or I've seen this, you know, transact at much higher numbers.

Hey. I'll bet you if I can buy this off season or before, you know, Mahomes lost, right, for example, right, you you you could you could say, that there could be an opportunity there.

So I wanna talk about store value and making purchases that you're not gonna lose your ass on.

And I know just in the theme of all the conversations that I've had with you, that has been, like, a topic that is front and center in your mind when you're purchasing cards.

And you are typically pretty sound about, like, making your list and saying these are what I'm looking for because you have a lot of belief that based on whatever, like, these cards aren't going to, you know, get cut in half or, you know, a third in a year or so's time.

So maybe, like, for anyone who doesn't understand or hasn't thought about buying cards that way, how do you think about, like, I guess, what store value means and then also, just some traits and things that you look for in cards when you're you're making big purchases.

Yeah. So so I take this approach with everything, man, and you have to apply it to cards now because they're so expensive.

Right? So so and I don't everything I ever buy, whether it's anything, a watch, a car, a card, a whatever the hell it is, anything of value, I think about selling it.

Not that not that I wanna sell it. It's just that, okay. What if what if I need or I want to sell this product?

What are the ramifications? Are there is there any data out there that you can kinda zoom out and look at? The answer to that question now is yes. Right? There is so much data because we have data from the COVID pump.

And, obviously, the card letter guys have done an amazing job, you know, getting the data well before that. So so there's really no excuse to not have access to the data because it's there and it's very accurate.

Right? So that that's that's the big thing. Is there anything I look at and say, okay. What what if what if I need or want or have to sell this?

Is it is it something that's liquid, or is it is it something that's unique and you're gonna have to price it and wait for a buyer? Or is it something that you can look at and say, okay.

If I send this to auction, it's gonna go it's gonna sell somewhere between x and y. Right? That's a that that's a big part of it. And and you hate to it sounds kinda obvious, but I don't know.

That that's that that's that's what I do. And like I said, that's with anything. That's not just cards. But you you gotta with this hobby, it's gotten so expensive for for anything.

You you'd be you're you're being frivolous if you don't take that approach, and I don't care how much money you have. Right? That's that that's just the reality. Right?

So so the the Kobe, red PMG, congratulations on that pickup. Thank you. Anybody anybody sees that card, they're like, okay. This is a big card. It means a lot. Right? It's Kobe and one of the most important basketball sets of all time.

You know, you can just there's there's the, like, the way it makes people feel when they see it. Obviously, there's a limitation with how many copies exist in the marketplace.

Since I I was just having a conversation with Nick about this. I wanna show them we're just talking about this. The performance of Kobe Bryant's market right now is is trending up. It's very strong.

His cards are selling for a lot. You mentioned you bought the card last year. Like, how does, like, the that that obviously, the availability of that card being in market or on an auction block or being available is is one factor.

But how do you make how did you make sure that, like, that was the right time for you to buy a card like that? Like, how does timing play a role into what you do? Well, couple things.

So another another to to touch back on what we were just talking about, and you you just touched on it indirectly, is also to identify value is make sure whatever you're buying, you can explain it in a couple of words.

It doesn't have a big story. You don't have to like, is it if you see a COVID PMG, you don't have to say and say, look. Right? Right? Now, obviously, that's the top of the top. Right? But people know what it is.

If you have a card that you have to show to somebody and then tell them a story why it's special or rare, you better really like it because it's probably not gonna just just continue to to go up in value or suddenly, you know, go up exponentially.

It's probably not because, you know, it it's just that's just the market. Right? So so, usually, the longer the story the card has, the the less likely it it it is to, you know, continue to go up, quote, unquote.

So so no so no no no, like, three or four paragraphs on an Instagram story about a card. That's probably I mean, you could do it, but as long as you like it, right, it makes you feel good, fucking, hey.

Go do it, dude. I think that's great. That's awesome. But, like, if you have to show another collector and say, hey. Here's this, and they look at it, and they're like, oh, well, that's awesome.

Like, what is that? That was like like, I I think, that tiki torch Manning card. Right? Like, that's, like, a really good example. Like, it's a cool card, but, dude, what the hell is that thing?

And it takes a story to to to explain it. Right? So that that just kinda popped in my head for some reason. But but there's so many things like that that, you know, don't try to reinvent the wheel.

Right? It's just, you know, just just be cognizant of what's going on. Now back to your question, the timing of it, I mean, dude, stuff like that, my thing was and I have an authentic one.

It's not even graded. Or it's in a PSA holder, but it doesn't have a numerical grade. For it it's what was available, based on, you know, what I I wanted to, you know, do some trading and stuff like that, and it made sense.

It was pretty easy to value because, first of all, the person I got it from is somebody I've dealt with for years. And then also, you know, wanted recently transacted, so it was pretty easy to put a number on it.

And, you know, that that that was it. I mean, it came up. It was available. The the opportunity as well to to buy it is is something that's, you know, becoming more difficult to come by for that really rare, you know, golden era stuff.

You know what I mean? Because it's just, you know, they're they're they're not they're they're finding their, quote, unquote, forever homes.

Even though there is 90 of them, it doesn't feel like there's 90. I mean, I I wanna say that I haven't looked in a while, but there's only, like, 14 in a PSA holder.

So and that and that's, yeah, and that's that's any grade. And I think the highest grade's, like, again, I don't know. I don't remember, but the highest grade's, like, a six or a seven, something ridiculous.

So to me, I don't wanna say the grade doesn't matter. Sure. I would rather love to have a a higher grade, but I'm happy with what I have. So you mentioned, the art of the hold, which I wanna talk about.

Yeah. And maybe you can put in the context of that COBie card or not. But just when you say that, I think, like, one of the biggest challenges we have is, you know, we've got our our case of cards.

Right? And then a new card pops up, and you're like, shit. I gotta get rid of some stuff because I really want that card.

But in that bundle of cards that you're getting rid of, there could be a card that you're just like, yeah. You're like, man, I was planning on keeping this for, you know, another year, another two years.

Talk to me about, like, how you think about just which cards that you hold when maybe another card pops up and you need to sell some to fund some. Like, what what do you what kind of qualities do you, take into consideration?

So I have two boxes. Right? Like, my my my main PC, it's it's it's pretty small, dude. It's it's my main, like, my main collection is, like, two PSA boxes. Right? And one of them, they're just not for sale.

Right? They're not that's it. That they're that that's my it's it that they're they're the cards. It's just they're not moving, and I've already identified the fact that I can't easily go get another one.

You know, I shouldn't if I have to dip into those, then I'm probably doing something else wrong. Right? And that's it. Right? And that's just that's just the way I do it. It's very, very simple.

Now the other ones are like, really, you know, I don't really like to part with a lot of stuff unless either, you know, I know that there's I if it's if it's going to a good home, that's like that's like my soft spot.

Right? I moved the the Brady, $20.

20 gold to a good friend of mine. And, dude Those are so shiny, though, man. Yeah. I Yeah. But, dude, it went to somebody that's helped me with other ones or in the past, and I like him. And, you know, he's got a family legacy going on.

He's got all like, he's a hardcore collector. Like, I just would never say no to him. You know what I mean? Like, I even I think I sold to him for less than what somebody else offered me for.

But because, you know, like, I knew where it was going, and it's, you know, legitimate. It's not like, oh, yeah. I'm gonna hold it forever, and then, you know, you see it advertised somewhere, like, a week later.

You know? It's it's so so that that's that's part. And then and then, you know, I said my other box is is stuff that that I would trade away for other things to get it in the good box.

What I love this two box approach. Mhmm. I'm I'm I'm I'm forming like that. It's not hasn't organically got that way, but I have two boxes. And k. My my box on my left is in that box is stuff that I'm more willing to part with.

But when I when you think about your box of untouchables, like, what are you mentioned they're not I can't easily get these again, but I would imagine there's some, like, emotional connection.

There's also probably financial connection. Talk about, like, what how do you graduate and get into that box of cards? Like, what are, like, the core elements that make up that collection of cards?

Usually, it's stuff that's either some some of it I've just had for a really long time. Not much because the stuff that I've had for a really long time is kinda I've matured out of it into, you know, more defined, more scarce cards.

Right? But but I would probably say the main thing is is really just ease of replacement is really what it what it comes down to.

Right? Like, you know, off the top of my head, just off the top of my head, 2,002 finest gold Tom Brady, gold refractor. Dude, I it's it's not you just can't get another one. So so that's why that one's in there.

Right? And, you know, it's one that I hunted for, like, some ridiculous amount of time. I mean, I I think that the reason why that one comes, like, right to the front is because, it was so long. I mean, like, twelve years, man.

Some stupid some stupid amount of time. So, you know, stuff like that. Like, you just you know? And we still haven't seen one go go to auction ever. Right? Never. Not through all the craziness, all the whatever.

It's just never happened. So so some something like that to where that's, like, an extreme example, but that's what that's what comes to mind right away. And but but replacing that because that's the thing.

It's like, what why would I par with that? Because it's not like it's gonna be for something that's equally unreplaceable unless it's a one on one, and I don't really collect one on ones.

Right? So Yeah. No. I guess when you think about, like, buying cards that could eventually end up in that box and will store value and maybe may hopefully, increase in value the longer you're holding those cards.

Talk about, like, how you value traits that we talk about in the hobby all the time, whether it's, like, the rookie element, the first year element, the low population, the rarity and scarcity.

Like, how does all of those factors play a role in your process when you're buying cards to keep? Dude, goes back to the story method.

Right? What's the story? Right? Can I show this to somebody, and do you need to give me a dissertation of why it's cool or why it's rare or why it's desirable? Or did you see it and you're like, oh, fuck, man.

I haven't seen my role. So right? I mean, that that's that's that's number one. And then it's funny because it used to be, like, I used to collect rookies. Right? Like, when I first got really heavily back into this, I was like, okay.

I'm gonna buy the key rookie card of everyone who's hall of fame that's good. And I started with football, baseball, did a little bit of hockey, basketball. Right? And that's really where it started.

And because when I was a kid, right, the and when I really, really early started collecting, like, the the parallels of they weren't really available. But even when they started to kinda come out, they really weren't that desirable.

Nobody gave a shit. Right? If you if you opened up a box of 02/2010 Chrome football, for example, in 02/2010, you did not care if you got a gold refractor of someone that's current playing that's not a rookie. You didn't care, dude.

I I mean, you might say, oh, wow. That's cool. But you didn't care. Right? It wasn't like it wasn't as, like, I don't know. It didn't hold as much water as it does today. And that was just it really didn't hold any.

You just you honestly didn't even put it in a sleep. You just put it in whatever. Right? So so you were focusing on rookie cards, and and I was the same. Like, I I'm not saying that was any different.

I was the same. So so I think the collecting has matured con considerably to now that there's certain rookie cards that are key. Right? And then there's certain inserts that are key and certain parallels that are key.

Because back in the day when before there were parallels, it was all about inserts. Right? You literally ripped open a box of whatever it was, '92 FLIR, and they were yellow.

And you just open the side and you say, oh, do I see a black insert? If you didn't, your your pack's up. Right? That doesn't there was nothing else to look for.

And that was the case with a lot of stuff. Right? You didn't really start to see the variety until, you know, middle of the nineties is where you started to kinda start to see stuff that's numbered or or different parallels, whatever.

I think, like, first day production in stadium club was probably, like, one of the first to do that, and all was the same car with a stamp in the corner.

That was it. So so yeah. So, I mean, I so to answer your question, like, everything that I've got, it's all a little different.

Now if it's like, for example, if it's a if it's a rookie, right, it's a rare low serial number one. Right? That's that's what it is. Even if it's like a like, I've got a, like, a Tom Brady gold Bowman, the '99.

Right? I would you know, before, I would have bought, you know, the the base card and maybe in the highest grade that I could get. Right? But you can always go any band bottom of those.

So the stuff that you hold is something that no. You can't. You know, those don't come to market very often. Even though there is 99, for something like that, that's a low number for something that's 25 years old.

I'd I'd love to get your perspective on just, like especially towards the end of last year, what we saw a lot of just with auction results and big sales.

It's like we started to, like and it we started to move more into the it it it it's not necessarily all focused and about one specific player like Brady or Jordan or whatever. It's more about, like, key sets and key parallels.

And the example that kinda comes to my mind is what we saw with, like, credentials of football in the last, like, you know, six months where we're seeing, like, 6 figure nineties football sales, which we hadn't seen before.

And so much of, I think, the way the we communicate about collecting is through the lens of specific players, whether it's Wyndham Yama, Caitlin Clark, or you name the rookie flavor of the week, or GOATs are all time legends.

So much of it is about that, and we don't, like, specifically drill down on the we stay at the surface when we talk about a player's market.

But I I've always thought, like, there's something really important and powerful about, like, the key sets, like the PMG, which your Kobe's a part of that.

It doesn't matter who the players are. People want Right. All of them. So maybe talk about just, like, that.

Like, how do you view that? How do you view, like, the sets and kind of the the parallels versus, you know, specific player and maybe just, like, what's happening in the market and how you kind of look at those trends.

Well, I mean, you're seeing those credential cards that are selling for those big numbers are one of five, one of seven, one of ten, one of three, whatever.

And and the thing is, it's not like today where if there's a card number to five, within a year, all five of them are identified.

Mhmm. Right? They're they're they're identified. They are. Right? These things no, man. They're not. So it might be it might like, that Iverson is probably one that you're talking about. Right? Mhmm. Yeah.

I mean, dude, whoever bought that, I guarantee you, whoever bought it has been waiting to buy it for fifteen years, and the guy that bid under him was waiting to buy it for fourteen years, and the guy bidding under him waiting to buy it for thirteen years.

Right? So, like like like, that's just the reality. And and they're building the set. They're building that collection, whatever the case may be, and they know that, oh, shit.

Like, this this thing yeah. Sure. Is it numbered to five? But there's probably two. Right? And I get it. And I think that those are you know, they're fun to build around.

Right? Because there's always gonna be people that are trying to collect those sets. And, usually, the people that collect those sets are the biggest, most influential collectors in the hobby.

Right? So so if you can identify let's say you're like, okay. Well, jeez. I, you know, this is I I this Allen Iverson is just not what I wanna spend.

Whether it's not your price range, you don't know which one you wanna spend, I totally get it. I don't either. Right? But you could still identify other opportunities in, like you said, dude, the base guys.

I mean, like, find if you let's say you like Iverson and you're from Philadelphia and which I grew up in Philadelphia at that time when he was playing.

Go see if there's another guy in you know, that that you can buy for a thousand bucks or whatever.

Right? Because if there's someone else that that that is maybe a a scrub or a local or, like, a hometown hero is probably always pretty fun.

Right? And and they're part of that set and they're limited, you know, it's not a bad idea to buy that kind of stuff and hold on to it, especially if it talks to you.

Right? That's kinda that's my opinion of that. No. I love it. It it feels like and we there's some data to support this as well, but I always start with the feels.

It it feels like we're in a really, good period of time just in terms of the hobby. We're seeing strong sales, a lot of transactions across multiple marketplaces.

What what do you what's your read on just the hobby in general? Any way you wanna take it, whether it's the market, what's happening? Like, what what excites you about what's happening right now?

And then also maybe, like, what is something within the market that, you know, is not hitting you the right way and you just maybe either ignore or you wish would would change?

Okay. Well, the the the the exciting part is is PSA. Right? I mean, it it's incredible what they've what they've done. They've literally listened to the collector.

They've they've identified clear issues in the hobby, and they have rectified we rectified them one at a time. And they continue to evolve, and they continue to change their process, and they continue to to just evolve as a leader.

And I think that's awesome. All their tools, the thing the the technology that they invest in to make it as good of an experience for the customer as possible, I think, is incredible.

And, you know, shame on BGS for just sitting there with their thumb up their ass, dude.

Right? Like like, I I I just it's it's it's unbelievable as a businessperson. Right? And I see that, and you're just like, what? Right? It's just it's just unbelievable. I mean, you just wonder what they're thinking.

So so when I see that, like, with PSA, I think that's I think that's awesome. I think that they're you know, I've always been an advocate of theirs. I've oh, I used to be, like, fifty fifty.

Right? I used to literally, no joking, would say, okay. This one, I'm gonna buy in PSA. This one, I'm gonna buy BGS. And, dude, forever I did that. Right? Until, like, you know, seven years ago, five years ago, whatever it is.

I said, you know what? I've always known you as an exclusive v, PSA guy. Oh, bro. Dude, I have, like, like, old submissions from, you know, the early or late o nine to, like, early twenty fourteen.

They were almost all BGS, bro. Almost all of them. Part of it is because I had bought a Jordan card way early on, and it was it was a rookie.

And when I bought when I was in the market for it, right, there were PSA fake ones going around. Right? This is a long time ago. And I was afraid because you didn't have the buyer's protection that you have now.

So you you wouldn't find that card locally so easily. You had to go to eBay to buy it. It was very it was a very subjective market when it came to the who's right and who's wrong.

Right? And I was just not interested in in getting getting ripped off. So so, you know, I would buy BGS because, you know, at that time, that's what that's what made sense.

And that's not like, you would used to be able to go on blowout, and people would track, hey. This one's fake, or this is the, you know, the Chinese slab, the Chinese PSA slab, whatever.

People would get them and and take them apart and all all this crap. Right? So so so that's how it used to be, but but the pot but like I said, PSA has identified that stuff over the years, and they said, hey.

We are gonna create this database. We're gonna, you know, create this user experience for the collector and say, hey. You know what? I feel good about buying their product.

And if there is something that's fishy or screwed up, dude, they get involved, and they'll figure it out. We've seen how I haven't had to deal with it. Right? But I've seen friends deal with them, and they fucking care, man.

They care. Right? Now are they always gonna just roll over and give you whatever the hell you ask for? Of course not. But at the end of the day, do they make good decisions? Absolutely, they have. I think they have, anyway.

So, you know, that's the the positive. Sorry. It's my dog. And, that that's that's the positive side. The not so positive that you'd ask for, is, like, the false narrative and and the spit just being jammed down your throat.

Right? Like, you know, let's say I don't know. The the the whole breaking thing is just it's taken the fun out of everything, in my in my opinion.

That that that's not anything new. Right? That's part of it. The, exploitation of bad news. Right? I don't like that. Because, again, like, everybody you people use this as all different reasons. Right? The hobby.

Right? But at the end of the day, almost everyone uses it for the same reason, which is like, okay. Hey. My work life, my professional life, my personal life at home, I'm gonna pause that, and I wanna go look at some collectibles.

Right? Well, that sucks when you go to do it and you're reading about this guy got ripped off or this guy's a piece of crap or, you know, whatever.

Right? And then the banter back and forth. I mean, dude, I saw one, like, couple weeks ago about, you know, somebody took a snippet out of one podcast and, like, manipulated it to make it sound like this guy is this.

And they're, like, fighting back and forth, and then they're posting each other's comments. It's like, bro, go away, man.

Like, I like both of you until this. I think a lot we we we learned that through this through those displays that I think there's a lot of time on individuals' hands when they we see that sort of stuff spinning up.

It's like, man, can't we just come here to have fun and talk about cards? But so it goes.

Is there any I mean, is that is that just a is that just a result of a hobby that is, getting more exposure through, you know, the the mega star athlete, everything that, you know, tops and fanatics is doing to bring people in, markets that are strong stronger than they have?

Then is that just like a a side effect that we have to deal with when there's more exposure and cards are selling for more, we have to deal with some of the the bullshit along the way?

Is that just part of it? Yeah. I mean, there's gonna we touched on this a little bit earlier, but there's gonna be greed, and there's gonna be people that make mistakes, in any market.

Right? And there's gonna be people that try and capitalize on that kind of stuff. They're gonna capitalize on people people's emotions.

They're gonna make moves based out of greed and disparity, that aren't always the right moves, usually not the right moves. And people want attention whether it's positive or negative.

They're trying to land them on their page. Right? That's at the end of the day. Most people, not everybody, but they wanna land other collectors on their page to read about whatever they have to say.

And that is a way to do it. What it's what I say it's the right way, that's not me to say, but it is a way to do it. And it's very common, and I feel like it's become common in the past.

It's always been a way, but it's it's been even more common in the past, you know, two years. Maybe because the the market's cooled a little bit, maybe because we didn't have the constant new users coming aboard.

And, again, going down the path of maybe a little desperate to get more followers and, you know, or get more get more eyes on their stuff. You know, it's a little bit of everything, I think.

As we kinda just round the corner, I wanna talk a little bit about just, like, budgeting and how you think about, like, funds you use for the hobby and how you try to be as responsible as possible.

I think one of the biggest challenges we have and luckily, like, we have services like what Nick's doing with worth funding. We've got some options.

But, like, how do you make sure that, like, when the unexpected card that has been on your list forever like the Kobe PMG, how do you make sure that you are able to acquire that and do it in a way that's, like, do it in a way that's, like, responsible and it's not gonna, like, make you overextend yourself financially?

Well, so so I I would always have the plan before I even find it. Mhmm. Right? And that and that goes for that that's that's part of it. Right?

Now I get it. That's easier said than done. Life gets in the way. Let's say you're buying a house, rent a whatever. Right? And you just don't wanna, you know, you don't wanna rock the boat at that point or whatever the case may be.

But, typically, I'll have a plan before I even find it. That's a. And then, b, I always have liquidity on the sidelines for anything, and that's anything in my life.

Right? Any opportunity that arises that could be a potential investment or, acquisition or something that I wanna buy, what whatever it is. Right? Because I like lots of stuff, dude. It's not just cards. I like all kinds of stuff.

We're not that's a whole another podcast. But but but, yeah, man. And it's easy to have a you know, if if people are sitting on these types of collections, right, they should hopefully have access to liquidity somewhere else.

And Nick's doing a great job of that. Right? But you there's also easy to get lines of credit these days in the event that somebody might need it as long as you're responsible and saying, hey.

I'm only using this for, like, a month because I'm gonna put it on here so I don't have to tell my wife or whatever the hell.

You know? I don't have a wife, but I get that's a that's a realistic scenario. Right? And you can say, hey. I can just throw it on there for a month.

She won't even notice. I'll sell this stuff, pay it off, move on. Right? I think that's a really good strategy. Personally, I think that if I was married or if I had that to to not explain this to people, right, that's what I'll do.

Right? And and like I said, these products are easy for people to get access to. You just don't know about them. You know? I love that. I love that.

This is I wanna maybe close with the this will be I've saved this specifically for the end, but I wanna just, like, based on your observations of what you're saying and this I don't want people listening to be like, this is advice from Joey, and you need to take it.

It's more like mindset of a collector who's been doing this the way you've been doing it for as long as you've been doing it.

It's like, right now, if you evaluate what's happening in the hobby, evaluate sets, products, players, everything, like, what do you like, and I don't I'm not here to try to get you to, like, blow your cover or anything, but, like, what do you think is, like, attractive opportunities based on where the market has been to where it's at now or potentially, like, a category that no one's ever really paid attention to that there might be, some opportunity?

Like, what are some of the things that you're seeing that excite you potentially as a place of good store value?

Well, I don't think there's any silver bullet. Right? I I really don't. I think that anyone that thinks that is just guessing and they're getting lucky.

K? That that's my opinion of that. But I do think that there's tried and true things that you can buy, dude. Like, my my is always gonna be and this isn't even my era.

It's after my era, but it's always that, like, mid nineties to early two thousands stuff that's that's rare. Jordan, Kobe, whatever whatever is collectible. Keyword is likable, collectible. No story. Right? Any of that stuff.

And if you look at, like, Jordan is, like, the barometer, which he almost as he he should be and he is. Right? Over, an extended period of time, I mean, dude, that stuff is just an ironclad store value, man, and I love it.

And and and the stuff I I I like, you know, the stuff from my era, fortunately, it's it's not cheap, but it's not that expensive.

It's not it's not PMG crazy. It's you know, you could buy the, like, the inserts, from the early nineties in PSA 10. Only PSA 10. Right? You could you could still get them for, you know, some 2 to $15, right, which is a lot of money.

But if you zoom out and you look at it over time, well, they just they're always worth either the same or a little more every fucking time. Right? And it's and it's just the way it is.

And and and I don't there's just no fighting that because if if if if those, in my opinion, if you start to see those key Jordan cards, go down, right, which we've never seen really, you know, I I just think that you're gonna see all these other things wash out way before that happens.

That's my opinion. That's that's that's the negative side. Oh, I love I love it. My key takeaway, Joey, from this conversation, which I've heard you say, but it was a good reminder.

It's like, if you're spending a lot of money on a card and you have plans to eventually sell it someday someday down the road, make sure that when you hold it up, there's the moment immediately from the other end, and you don't have to you don't get, like, squinty eyes or, like, what's that?

And you have to sit there and explain a lot.

Like, so buy cards that people care about if you're trying to sell them down the road. Right? Yeah. Absolutely, dude. And it's and it sounds simple. Right? Because it is, but it's true, dude. Right? Like, it's it really is true.

Every card that you see in card ladder that it's, you know, fetches some huge record. Right? We just saw that, Reggie Miller. Right? Yeah. Like, a 30 g. That's nuts. And you can show it to fucking anybody, and they would say, wow.

That's that's that's expensive, but I'm not surprised. Right? I'm not surprised. Somebody it. Right? Right? I mean, that that that's everybody you you could've like, look at that card.

That's a good example. I don't think I've ever seen that card before, but I knew exactly what it was. I know I hadn't seen that card because I'm a Reggie guy. I've never seen it. Yeah.

But But you knew exactly what it was, though, didn't you? Yes. Yes. That's amazing. The Etrader, Joey. Joey, I'm glad we could reconnect and do this. This was fun. I think a lot of good information I think everyone's gonna benefit from.

I promise you next time we do it, there'll be a shorter gap in between episodes, but looking forward to doing it again, man. Oh, yeah. No problem, Ed. Thank you. Thanks for having me.