alright we are back built for the hobby with my good friend scott in inferno red technology excited for this conversation if you were tuned in last season you saw a thread we were talking about ai and its impact in this space and in the planning for this next season we have been talking about what we wanna focus on and inevitably ai kept popping up and we thought it might be interesting to get some perspective from different business owners and operators in this space on how they view ai and its role in the ever changing hobby landscape and so that's what we're gonna do today we've got four questions ai related from a variety of personas in the hobby and we're gonna share those and see what scott has to say in his perspective but without further ado scott welcome back man it's been a while how are you doing good brad how are you i can't complain outside of the you know we're lamenting on the allergies and the sickness going around outside of that i'm great yeah allergies are insane but that means that it's springtime and that you know baseball is here and nba playoffs are here and football's right around the corner so and then chalockeys playoffs are here bugs are here flying around me in my face but yeah it's a good this is my favorite time of the year except for the except for the pollen which is insane everything's green do you have a i know you're a big basketball guy we are just starting the second round here we've had some games go down what what what are you feeling right now based on the landscape of what you've seen in the playoffs do you have a finals matchup and finals pick like where are you leaning yeah well first of all the most important thing to know about basketball right now is that the the lottery draft selection is on sunday and that the wizards are in a position to to get a number one pick so you know we're hoping i i don't think they can drop before five below five maybe even four so like that's first and foremost and we got season tickets again for next year so excited for that but i think in the yeah no man i think i think that the spurs kinda got got surprised the other night when they lost and but however like i think they're gonna they're gonna clean up and they're going to end up playing okc in the western conference final which i think is gonna be one of the most incredible series if it happens i don't wanna put cart before the horse but i think that's gonna happen i don't think lebron's gonna get out of okc much of the chagrin you know he is the second greatest player of all time behind michael jordan so and then i think in the finals i have high hopes to see new york make it in the eastern conference and take on the mighty redefending champions because i think they'll get past the spurs and then it's gonna be crazy i think that the knicks can win win it all the only team that can beat the knicks i think is i think is is the knicks but you know let's just all take us a moment and thank thank god that the there are no boston celtics teams in in the nba finals right now it's just my diehard hatred for boston sports sorry all you boston fans out there yeah and you have to you have to make me imagine a world of the knicks winning the finals and i don't know if that's the best way to kick this off here scott but i'll i'll there's plenty of loyal listeners in new york and the knicks are playing really good basketball as a pacers fan you you you can't be cheering for okc so i i actually you know the weird scenario that it i am i am in this position where this is my fantasy world scott where it's i envision i don't think anybody's beating oklahoma city this year i just don't so i think they're gonna win again and then i'm envisioning this fantasy world of the pacers hitting big in the lottery although by the time this goes live we'll see what happens because we with the trade we did with the clippers if we don't get a top four pick we might lose the pick so it's my my mother's day on sunday it will be a very stressful day but i'm envisioning a as the o k okc goes for a three peat the pacers are marching back they get a chance at redemption but we can we can all dream of these scenarios you know well i just hope that i mean if you can go from like best in the east to the worst almost the worst in the east that there's hope that you can go from the worst in the east to the best i don't know we'll see ad doesn't think that he's i don't know well there's actually two dates that are later on in the season or actually later in the summer i think it's one is like june something and and there's two dates that are tied around anthony davis' extension ten and and then also in trae young's trae young's signing with the wizards to see that you know that we locked those two guys in for next year so i hope that happens but i i i think it will i mean trae young we still joke that he's the only person i can remember in the history of basketball said that they wanted to play in washington dc for the wizards so and then that eighty didn't have a choice he just kinda got traded here so i don't know well i hope i hope we have a young team get two superstars make a legit run for it i mean at least make the playoffs would be nice so you're you're set up a lot better i think than you have been in previous years as a wizards fan but we could talk basketball all day i wanna talk technology and we're going to get into some of these questions but some observations for me as we are planning for this series i told you i was like you know what let me just canvas the audience and different owners and try to figure out like what are people thinking about what what kind of ai related questions do they have and we got some good ones but then i'll also say one of my other observations was people were just unsure they were unsure what to how they thought of ai how it could impact their business in the sports card industry and then also they the questions like they weren't even in a position where they knew what to ask yet and so that's an observation that i had and i guess before we get into the questions like you're on the front lines talking to a lot of these businesses day in and day out like how would you say right now like from a sports card industry perspective how mature are we in terms of ai and how we're thinking about using ai to improve kind of our business processes i think well i think that the this is a common sentiment i think around people who are are at the the edge of the surface area that is ai that you know the pace of innovation for ai is far greater than the ability for any company frankly hobby or not to actually implement that technology or take advantage of it it's called i've heard it referred to as the the ai or the the ai overhang where it's just you know like people just can't take advantage of everything that ai is capable of of doing as fast as they can modify their process in their business or in their work stream or whatever it might be to to take advantage of that that technology i think that's very true in almost every business out there i just was listening to a podcast on ai this morning that was talking about a recent report that microsoft put out their work you know their ai adoption and work reports that i may have that wrong so if you know don't don't kill me on the citation there but it's an interesting one it it tends to lean a little bit towards microsoft but it because of they're obviously measuring for things like for copilot and and what have you but they're also a pretty interesting source because they're they're because of their depth in organizations in both like small business and and large they're so wide and so ingrained that they they provide a little bit more of a broader picture on where companies are and it's interesting like they have them the matrix i heard i didn't see it but the matrix that they did was described as you know the ability of a business to take advantage and and adopt and get a return on investment for ai and then the level of then the other axis the x axis of the ability and capabilities of the individual to use ai in their daily work and to to receive the advantage so if those two things converge you know in the top right hand corner you have a company with an organization and ability to adopt and receive value and then individual who has the skills and the capability capacity in the terms of ability to use ai to make whatever it is they're doing more effective efficient better products and what they found is that the majority of the organizations that they measure fall somewhere in what they call the gray area shocker of around fifteen or you know they're on the ends of the top left right it's about sixteen percent on the bottom left it's about sixteen and then this massive number of fifty percent sits in the middle which is like it's so gray and nebulous on what they're doing that you almost they can't put them categorically into into one of these areas but the truth is this podcaster had said that if you actually take a closer look at it you'll see that it's it's really the far kind of ten towards the left which is the organizations aren't able to change their process or adapt their process to take advantage of of ai and i think that that's the case definitely for the hobby that you're talking you you have the start ups right and the and the big thinkers who are all of a sudden the barrier to entry for software engineering is no longer there so like they feel like they can build anything and and they basically can to some degree so they're you know every idea is flying off the shelf it is interesting i do think and you and i have talked about this like that we're tending to gravitate all towards the same thing like manage a collection keep track of value keep track of trends decide to buy collect you know ship sell like it's all kinda tracking the same things and everyone's trying to build the same you know the same mousetrap over and over but that's i mean that's fine but at the end of the day like i think where where there's real advantage is in in the local shops in the in the companies that make materials for the industry in the companies that you know aren't aren't just manufacturing the cards but they're dealing with the customers and so you have buying experience you have shopping experience you have you know one of our biggest clients we work on fan engagement i can't i've said this before i can't say the name but like you get it like it's something we talk about frequently but if you're you know what that's like for the the fan at a game and what that is like and i think in the hobby like there's opportunities for the for hobby shops to to use ai to create better experiences to to do better know your customer to to to take advantage of efficiencies that small businesses need to save where the margins are well it's gonna sound ironic in this in this industry where they're they're they're slim i don't know that that's the case but if yours but if you don't get actually that's true if you don't get a ton of allocation right your margins are gonna be kinda tight because you're buying from third party or you're buying you know resell or retail like so you know every dollar counts and i think that that's the truth it's like those mom pop shops like which is pretty much every you know local card shop not called you you know steel city or or blowout like those places are all fighting for every dollar and i think that that's where ai makes it possible to create automation and software that drives customer and collectors' experiences in a positive way that in you know then means they're gonna buy more go to more things show up for trade night like there's just so many different things that that the outcome of using ai generates and and makes possible that i think has just not even been tapped yet so sorry that's a long long rambling answer to your question but it it's good context setting i want to maybe if you could help us understand because i know we've had some conversations about just some of what is coming your way at inferno red technology like because you touched on a little bit about people wanting to build stuff people you know getting in tools using ai to come execute on ideas maybe quicker than ever before maybe prior to that people would come to you with an idea now people can come with you with actually something built and established and they just need your help kinda taking it to the next level it like what is the appetite right now just in terms of like entrepreneurs in the hobby who have an interest in not only building tools but building it themselves and then coming to a company like inferno red to kinda help bring it to life i mean i i think that i think that because the the barrier to entry for software engineering has been greatly reduced that there are a lot more entrepreneurial minded people i think the hobby in and of itself generates entrepreneurs even on a one to one basis which is cards in general buying and selling and negotiating and trading i think there's a lot of people who are who are not necessarily as technical as a software developer might be who has you know years of experience in before ai that are now you know empowered like you said i don't know that i see a ton of i don't feel like i'm we're seeing hey i have an idea i built this thing take it the last mile what in our business anyways we're we are more focused on working with companies who are still trying to solve problems with technology and it's just the time to market for for us to get them there is now exponentially faster you know there's the the it has never been a better time to be an entrepreneur in my mind than it is right now because of of all of the innovations but at the same time like that doesn't that doesn't change the fact that like it's still hard to be successful at it right if you ask any entrepreneur like whether they you know they were a naturally gifted person who had the answer to everyone's problems and they were at the right place at the right time like they still like you know all they did was work on it all they did was you know not get paid all you know they had to go to market they were nonstop going into it so you know i think you can you accidentally fall into an opportunity to build something that you know is successful maybe but what we're still seeing is like you know people still have ideas that are generally you know solving a business problem if it's a personal problem by all means like go knock it out like pick your tools build it for yourself you don't need you know you don't need infernoride to do that but if you're you know if you're trying to take something and get it to market and you want it to grow and you want it to become something that will scale because scaling and security hasn't disappeared either in fact it's gotten harder and a much bigger problem because now the surface area for attacks is much bigger because there's more things out there and the tools to attack you with are much better because ai is there like it's just like this self you know fulfilling prophecy of of of of tech that's happening but you know in our case i'm seeing that it's it's more of like the concepts are still coming in the concrete ideas are still coming in and then you know companies are still building things that solve biz business problems or they're developing products that serve a customer so yeah so while there's a lot of ideas like it's not like it's at least for the hobby there's a set like i said there's a certain common set that kind of been popping up but mostly you know we are in the hobby anyways we're working with you know the the same same challenges as before i think i like it i i think that'll be helpful as we dive into these questions just to give the audience some perspective of where we're at from an ai perspective in the hobby i will remind the audience the interesting point for me in going through this exercise was either i have no idea i'm not there yet which is totally fine or you had let me think about it or you had here's my question and the here's my question i thought was interesting because i landed on a different variety of people in this space from individual dealer to owner of business to collector so we're gonna get that perspective and i just found it interesting like the questions that were being asked so we'll start here from i guess scott are you ready to get in and get some questions let's let's do it alright so the first question's around pricing the unpriceable so this this question came from mikayla at rated rips and she said how can we get ai to generate a card value from an image for high end cards with low sales history so i'm imagining going around at a card show seeing a card that you love and you know everyone does the scan and looks up in the comps but how do we figure out if there's no sales history is there a use case where ai could help us maybe understand that at some level like what's your perspective i mean it's funny that that question actually like it's not that new of a question know years ago my oldest son who i've talked about before on your show he was an expert pricer for alt and alt you know has been working through the pricing market for for years now you know along with like cardladder and others but of the challenge was like when you have like a a very rare baseball card for example that doesn't hit the market all that often and it sells you know only occasionally like it still required human intelligence in this case my my son to like do the research and find the card and and put a value to it you know that the the intelligence around being able to find essentially narrow the pool down has gotten better so like it's it you know the the number of the the amount of time it takes to find something is is less because the pool is in the training and all that stuff has gotten so much better but i still in my opinion this is just my opinion like i think fundamentally like something that doesn't sell enough or it's rare enough that it doesn't you know sell that often and when it does it's it's astronomically high like in the million dollar range or higher like that's still something that's gonna be found through research and and i think ai can ai tools can help maybe assist in that research make make that data more widely available but i i think that it's still humans that are gonna be driving the machine to be able to find those i don't see i think it's really really hard right now even with all the improvements for ai to even identify cards consistently let alone you know these rare ones that that don't have a large data pool of of you know frankly just even images of them like some of them haven't even been seen which is kinda crazy if you think about it so yeah i don't i don't think that that's gonna happen anytime soon but i i i think it's the tooling around it the the researching tools the ability for humans to be able to find these things faster that's increased dramatically so so i love this and you you inspired a question that i have that i see a lot of people in this hobby use and participate in and that's trying to use a platform or tool like chatgpt to be a research function or element for their sports card you know investigation whether it's trying to learn about checklist rare sets this and that and i think often the feedback that i get and even through my own use case of it is there is a lot missing because though there's information that tools like chatgpt will spit back at us regarding questions that we have around different sets and parallels and all know the answer is wrong but you know chatgpt will share an answer whether it's a missed year or just some nuance so i guess i say all that to say is like i don't think that with with and i don't know even though if it's possible in this time and place to use a tool like chatgpt to be your like sole resource for a hundred percent accurate information on sports card research i think there's still a gap but i don't know like i'm sure you've you've noodled around and you've tried to investigate a little bit on just the research side what yeah maybe what needs to be true in order for that gap between what what we're putting in and what we're getting out to be more accurate information that'll help maybe the everyday collector when we're in a moment of trying to buy a sports card and trying to get more information about it well i mean there are sources that are are more accurate than like you're i mean remember like chatgpt and all of these large language models are trained on you know a large volume of data which includes you know historically a lot of the information that people are searching for like with checklists and things like that but there's you know the ability to to answer a question and predict you know the next word as part of the outcome is the part where people are like oh that's wrong or that doesn't look right and for the most part i mean ninety some percentage of the the cards and that have been produced in the last you know seventy five years are known generally as you know and from previous checklists whether you know it's years of beckett or from the manufacturers or what have you so it's not a question of like does the data exist i mean there's some things that are super rare that we don't have great you know records on but that's very very rare right and those generally are gonna be you know not what people are looking for so you know what i know that a lot of companies have been doing have been trying to create these like you know these data dictionary standard formats to try and consolidate it because the funny thing about ai in any of these tools and this has been true for decades is like you know it's garbage in garbage out right if if the data is not clean or if the data itself is is not well structured or formatted or or even inferred like then you're gonna get you're gonna get garbage out when you try to search through it it's not gonna be accurate it's gonna take a long time to search it's gonna and ai is even worse because it's predictive right so it's like trying to figure out like well i think it's this it could be that like let me just kinda see you know and then ask you recursive questions to see if we can narrow it down so i think is i i think this is a problem that's pretty much either solved or being solved right now by either fans that have access to the data companies you know that have access you know the i know tim and commsi they have almost every card that's ever been produced they've seen at some point you know and everyone's trying to like pull that data together to create the kind of like that single source of record but the the to go back to your original question like well why does like why can't i just use chatgpt or or clot or whatever it's just it's too it's too broad like it's trained on two the data is too broad it's really really good it's far better than what you had you know two years ago or three years ago but i think if you turn towards more things like like cardladder or beckett or even psa because psa has seen so many cards in their database for grade for grading you know you're gonna have a a far better better luck finding what you're looking for but yeah i mean it's really it's it's it's a it's a weird it's a weird question to answer because i feel like it seems so obvious like it should be so easy right it's like it's like your collection of records behind you i don't know if you're listening but if you can't see it you know brett has like an ungodly amount of records behind him because he's a audiophile i guess and vinyl's his thing but like you know how do you search something like that and and how do you make all that data available but if you catalog it well and you have it and it's known it's it's it can be it's findable as they say and for whatever reason it seems like sports cards and collectibles are are like like a a holy grail like it's like it shouldn't be so hard but yet here we are the next question is around building an ai advantage in inventory and this question comes from bill martin a first class card pro his question is how can dealers use ai to source smarter inventory and improve margins and i know bill has a ebay store where he sells a ton of cards so i'm sure there's some that's kind of the background and probably where the spirit of his question is coming from i wonder if like he's asking about like singles or is he asking about boxes or both yeah let's go with singles yeah sure yeah i mean i think his boxes obviously sell a lot less in my i i think actually i could be wrong but i have no idea but i i think you know like boxes themselves or cases sell a lot less frequently in the open market than single cards do is that a fair yes yes so you know so if you have a shop and on ebay and if you're actually you know flipping wax then you're buying from a distributor you're buying in bulk and you kinda like you you you kind of the margins are based on what you know you're gonna be able to do in negotiating with the with your source but which i guess is true of the singles but the thing on the singles it's the question is and i go through this with christopher all the time it's hey you know should i be buying this player should i be buying this sport you know when do i buy when do i sell like do i buy during the season do i not i think that's where you know there's a lot of companies out there that already have products that show trends and analysis on players and cards and you know products with you know do inserts sell better than you know just straight up color in prism or in you know pick in tops chrome or pick your because there's things that sell that should just make no sense on why they sell for what they what they sell for and it used to be if you go back in the day of like i just use prism as the example like you could track like the value of the market based on like prism silvers right in basketball or football like prism silvers like that was it and like and it made no sense because you're like this card is numbered to thirty nine or whatever sixty like an orange is numbered to sixty but this silver which is numbered in the thousands like sells for ten times more or whatever you know back in the you know the luca and the zion in in those days like and i we could never get our head around it and it that's just because the market's driven by collectability sometimes not by common sense and so you know ai is gonna make it a lot easier it does make it a lot easier like to use the trending tools you know i i when i say a lot of people are kind of like coming together to build the same things like there's a lot of people who are trying to tie you know performance data because we're in sports right so players value often fluctuates based on performance on injury on what did you do for me lately kind of mentality can drive up unless you know unless you're a shytani or whatever and it's just kind of you are going to be the goat forever and that's your cards just gonna go up and up so you know using tools to try and like essentially time the market for lack of better term is one way because you know the other the flip side to it is there's the idea of like taking margin and then there's sometimes you have to you have to essentially reclaim cash and get out of something that you is not gonna grow anymore and that i think is also an important question at what point do you just you know reclaim the cash sell get out of a card and then use that money to to reinvest in something that's gonna go up there's it's it's a it's a funny thing because it's a it's not this market doesn't play the same play to the same rules as play by the same rules as like other traditional asset classes like it's not just like you know a stock or or a precious metal no pun intended but like it's it's based on you know instinct it's based on like what people like right like everyone likes gold i guess but you know like how rare it is and like the markets drive it at scale but you know some people aren't fans of you know the the pick an insert for for example i don't know i just saw like the cooper somebody pulled a cooper flag jupiter the other day in where my son works at continental cards plug out to continental and i had never even seen it and i guess i that's in cosmic and i'm i'm like yeah it's cool but they're like this is a ten thousand dollar card sure enough like on ebay it was like there was one had just finished out bidding at nine thousand dollars i'm like it makes no sense it makes no sense i mean and it the only why does the cosmic from why be and it's because the market drove it that way like no other reason that card sells more than a psa seven jordan rookie right like what like why like that make that's why people get frustrated but to answer answer his question i mean i think ai will make it possible to to track those trends it's not going to account for people's tastes or love of the hobby or a sport or the game i don't know how ai is gonna solve that problem i think that's just that's where you know human in the loop matters and you bring people into the store and have conversations this this is this conversation has got me thinking of an idea scott and i know the last thing we need are more more ideas but is is is would could this be possible because we're talking about i'm thinking about the moment we all have as collectors when we go to ebay and we check our safe searches and we see a card that just got put up that is listed for like hundreds of dollars less than what we perceive it to be valued at or and even maybe comps and card ladder say that's true the just person who listed it had no idea and they just listed it for a price like is it possible to have something in place where you've got something set up across all platforms that when cards get listed like you would be get you would get notified of like all the opportunities of underpriced cards based on what the last comp or series of last comps would be so that then you as a dealer could go in and purchase the card at a percentage of what then you'd turn around and sell it for just because you were the first to notice like is that a like i'm just trying to think of different ways that we can think about is that a potential future ai use case of some new tool like would that work i mean the short answer is yes probably you know i think like if you're in you know if you're like in using the hobby spectrum as an example right like if you're in that tycoon level of the hobby spectrum then like that's the kind of thing you wanna build i'm sure you could do that like i don't know how accurate it is you're just gathering data on trends and and trying to time a market i'm sure that it's possible but i think that it kind of takes away the thing and i think actually chris and i chris from carladder we we had this conversation a couple of weeks ago about how like timing the marketing using data to kinda create these these automatics agent sellers and buyers takes the fun out of the hobby right i mean it kinda take like the treasure hunt is the thing that a lot of people kind of forget until they like stop doing it that way and then it doesn't become fun anymore yeah i actually had this happen like when christopher was younger and and i was like no this needs to be a business like we need to like we need to track our sales we need to track our revenue and our profit and like it's gotta be and he was like dad i don't wanna run it as a business that's no fun and i used at the time i was like come on i need to teach you and then like in hindsight i'm like he's not wrong like it kinda sucks to run any you know unless you're in the hobby shop and like but even side note tangent even if you're in the the hobby i've been in all these shops you've been there like these people love the hobby like they're they're yes they have a shop they wanna be profitable but they they're not there because they're like this i chose to do this or like dig ditches and digging ditches wasn't my passion like they went into they went into the hobby because they they love you know collecting and they're obsessed with it and and so on and the people who aren't like don't they're not very successful so yeah you could do it i think the data's there i think it's you know the tech is there to build it i don't know how much fun it would be but i'm i'm sure anything is possible with enough time in engineering so i i would bet you would probably get caught on things like rate limits and you know it might it might end up costing you more to actually run the platform than the money you would make from selling the cards so there's that right like you know people don't race cars because you know they wanna win the prize money or like it costs so expensive to race to race cars right they do it because they love it and and they wanna get sponsored or whatever but i don't know that's my i it's a rambling thought but i i haven't i haven't done it myself but i've heard a million people talk about trying to do it yeah it's it's a fair perspective and i think it's important for us to think about kind of why we're here especially for a an owner operator and most of us are doing it because we love cards first not because we're trying to take advantage of the market or something like that the next question is from a collector i've got my good friend and cohost of the wnba card podcast decided to chime in and caitlin at cold lunch card she said asks where is the real upside for ai of ai for collectors focused on enjoyment and long term meaning what's an application of ai for just people who are here not necessarily to make money but just to build out awesome collections well i mean i think i for me personally i don't find a lot of joy in like you know having to like rediscover my collection every single time i'm looking for something right you know some people are sec builders and they'll they'll sift through boxes you've seen them pull up the chairs at the national and they're just going through like you know the dollar bins and i'm like that can't be fun like and they're just looking at every individual card i i mean i it is fun for them they love it i've talked to those people like they're like yeah i'm just chilling i'm like you're looking for that you you know card number one seventy three that i'm missing from that you know nineteen ninety two set of something and you're like okay well there's a million of them here it's keep looking or somebody's like looking for you know those their valuable cards are the ones that they wanna show to their friends or like take to the card show and like try to trade up into so there's i think there's a lot of opportunity for for inventory management personal management i mean a lot of a lot of tools have been tried and built and failed and some are successful more than others to manage that i like to see like how and i and the reason by the way is ai doesn't like solve some problems specifically around that problem it just makes it easier to build things that are tailored towards what you wanna use so let me be clear it isn't like there's like oh this feature of ai it's like well the tools make it easier to build something that you that is tailored towards what you want and then again i'll say like i said earlier i think that there's opportunity for more for better engagement experiences whether it's like you know deeper more accessible information about a player or about a character or whatever it might be depending on what you're collecting that's just at your fingertips and and something that people can then share things there's more options for gamification around collecting in and of itself i think you know treasure hunts or scavenger hunts or things like that so things that people haven't even thought about yet and just the barrier to the ai makes it possible to to build those things much easier or much quicker much easier with less technical knowledge in the software engineering side the last question we have is from my guy max at cards max i had a conversation with max on the podcast i don't know a month or so ago and he is a dealer in the space and this guy is i mean he's done a really good job of building his brand socially he is very regimented in terms of his days his tasks he travels a lot he's back he tries to maximize every minute of the day when it comes to dealing cards online and in person and he asks how can ai go beyond task automation and solve problems we don't even recognize yet so i thought that was question or that was an interesting question because a lot of us are just using ai to like help expedite existing workflows in our workday but is there an opportunity in a for instance with a guy like max who's dealing sports cards twenty four seven to maybe prescribe or share information that he might not even realize yet that he needs to that he could find valuable to maybe improve his overall operation so the question is can you use ai to be predictive to the point where it's anticipating what you need before you know that you need it so therefore you can be more attentive to the things that you know you need there it is there it is like i think that in my opinion what i've seen if you look at what people are have been doing over the last several months with things like openclaw and these you know these long running agents autonomous agents i mean i think the world i think agents are is like that is now in the future of like what how ai will interact with the things that we do or the systems that we use it's already better at using computers it's already better at coding you know it's better at task management automation and all this stuff we already know about that but like there is a there is an actual world where the more information the more that you share in a safe way i mean i'm not encouraging anyone to go out and like open up their you know their all of their you know their personal information to ai so it can learn but but there is there it is in fact what it is actually being able to do now with with with agents so it can start to do things that and anticipate tasks that you may do on a regular basis that you haven't told told it that you do on a regular basis but it observes and it it understands because it sees the the regularity and it may be something that he's doing that he didn't even realize like was a pattern and it recognizes a pattern and starts to make suggestions to say hey i see that you know you're doing x y z every day for about thirty minutes maybe you should consider this or do you want me to take that on for you and it might be as simple as something like you know what i see that you're like taking time to like you know research who had the most points in the games last night and like i can just i can do that for you on a regular basis send it to you you know you may but you might say no i actually enjoy doing that like something i am doing okay great that's cool but it may find out that hey i see that you know when you pull those points you then like go to ebay and you're now you're like hey i'm curious if there's a spike in that player's prices but i can actually go out and take a look and do some analysis myself and then give you back a report that says oh you know what you're right like you know cooper did have a triple double you know fifty point triple double last night and like what happened is like these cards took off and these ones which are kinda sitting by the side over here it actually didn't move but they now have like kinetic energy to move up you might wanna think about pulling these in and maybe taking them to the show because you're about to go to a show you know in in his hometown or something i don't know like that's the kind of stuff where you that you you start to pull together both the tools that ai is is getting better and better at using things like computers themselves like and i say that it sounds so weird to say it but like you know ai ai is getting better at like using a computer in and of itself better than humans so if you haven't by the way if you haven't checked out like what some of those skills are like you should definitely do that but if you if as you pull these tool chains together and and bring everything into like a flow it's gonna happen automatically and it's gonna i think if you're looking for like those those edge cases and those and where ai can anticipate to bring either value or maybe a little bit more joy and joy maybe through the by capturing more time available to hang out with your family or something like that like those things exist right now and like that's what a lot of people are experimenting with you know with personal agents and you know chief of staff operators and like and and in a business i was talking to a guy yesterday he created a a a platform of agents that essentially set one up as like ceo coo cfo analyst he like he created a role for everyone of these agents and then gave it a concept and said go build this and it went out and like build the website it built all the marketing it like it did the whole it like basically company you know a zero a zero person company concept you know you can do those things if it give if it serves humans and gives time back and makes brings joy then i think then ai is achieving you know the goal of of making us more efficient but the first thing i said about tooling daisy chang and pulling all those tools together for inference is probably the best way for him to to find something that in the in the cracks that he where he can make either more money or get more time back very very good scott one more maybe just for me before we get out of here what what would you i don't know where do you think the industry is underperforming right now when it comes to ai like where is an area where you maybe would like to see the industry move in ai being a part of it because you know based on your world that you live in it can really help solve problems or help us or business owners do something quicker like what's on your mind right now i mean i think customer satisfaction and customer service like i think that's probably one of the areas it's an it's a huge opportunity i think because i mean if you think about it like you know if you're a small shop and you're submitting cards to get graded everyone comes in where's my cards right and you're like okay like you need to resolve that you gotta be able to share information if you if you're the shop owner you're like turnaround you look at like you know psa or beckett or whatever and you're like where's the submission and so there's all this data flowing through at the end of the day though it's like somebody a customer sent something in and is trying to find out the status of what it is it's no different than a lot of other industries but i feel like i see it all the time in these shops where it's just like yeah do you do graded cards and like yeah no we stopped it takes too long can't keep customers happy i mean i'd love to see that in customer service like there's an opportunity to improve more visibility more transparency i think collectors and the bigger companies could could do that better as well i mean just from our own experience in submitting cards and and getting grades back but but just like i said in the very beginning like the the ability for these companies to adopt and incorporate new tools and new technology into their existing systems is much much slower than it is for ai to innovate and create new technology and new advancements so while like you see all these things advancing over here but the ability for these companies the big ones especially to be able to pivot and and take advantage of it is they're just not on the same you know they're not on the same scale so you know i i that's that's probably the one of the places where i feel it's like low hanging fruit and by the way the other thing that why that's so important too is like i was talking to somebody recently or maybe it was a podcast i don't remember but it was you know one of the one of the largest sets of data that are that's out there that is driven by experience is customer service data right because you you are getting information in from a human's intelligence on what an experience of whatever it is that you were selling or servicing was and like ai can't replicate that like it can guess it can say hey well if you know if you serve the pizza late then it's gonna be cold and the customer won't be happy but in in customer service records this is like where like a lot of these large crm platforms and you know customer platforms have all of this data that it's just like has experience that you can't replicate and that's you know the way that ai is trained and and way inference works and things like that like experience is like incredibly valuable because that is that is actual real world you know feedback from humans on something and whatever case it is and i think for collectibles like all that data is just sitting out there i mean it's in ebay messages it's in you know and feedbacks like it there it's everywhere like but the experience data could be captured and be better used for customer service and i mean there's your idea man if you want you know something to something to chew on well it's not easy it's not an easy problem to solve or an easy problem to get your head around to find it like to monetize but you know the data's there at least i put an update in there yes you know through our conversations privately i think last thing you and i need right now is another thing or an idea to be working on as we're buried with so many other things on our minds but i think this conversation was really good to just share some perspective of how the community is thinking or their questions around ai and i still think there's so much room left for conversation and we'll be having some more of those conversations in the coming months scott i hope by the time this goes live you know i'm sure we'll be talking about sports and business and all that stuff but i i hope both of our teams actually are able to draft in this nba draft beak in this lottery because it's an important year but always fun catching up with you talking cards talking check likewise thanks brett