we are here sixth episode of built for the hobby we had so much fun last time alright i did scott it's your world so i i think you feel maybe the same way talking ai in the hobby and it is a topic that is not being discussed in public too much so i figured we talk about ai for hobby operators in twenty twenty six where to spend time maybe what to look out for scott is spending most of his time digging into this with inferno red technology and thinking about how you know tech and ai can help enhance workflows and save people time and a lot of other things so we're gonna get into that but without further ado we've had i feel like two hours chopping it up before we hit record but scott how are you doing i'm doing great yeah you should you should definitely title this like part two part dua and yeah i'm doing great it's all between collectibles and ai it's pretty much all i talk about sports football season's over and now we're sitting back and watching the you know the the rest of the nba season hoping hoping our wizards and pacers absolutely tank like we like mark rubin is or mark cuban is right like let's let's finish finish the year on a weak note and preserve that that that chance for the number one pick and at least don't don't even drop out of the lottery like that's that's crazy i know yeah well i was telling you like i i actually sat through the pacers and wizards that's shocking that's painful like what were you doing i was i i i'm stuck at home with three children and that was my release so i need to maybe i need to find more hobbies or different hobbies but i suffered through that but maybe just like to kick it off i'd love to get some understanding whether it's you talking with other clients that are you're currently working with in the hobby or just like maybe net new clients like anything interesting i know you've kinda been on the road a little bit but just like conversations that you've had that maybe align with this topic of ai for operators in twenty twenty six and anything to kick us off that might be interesting i mean i think as i said in the last session the pace of change in in technology if you're not paying attention like it's it's the number one most important thing to understand i i i feel like even in the last time we spoke about this and then the months prior like that the pace of change for things related to ai the messaging the tone the you know the the the amount of information that's been put out into into the world is is exponential exponentially changing and so for the hobby i think that it's it's still not pervasive in the sense of like collectors aren't thinking about this the same way that tech companies obviously are or definitely not you know in software engineering we're we're the most disrupted industry and just came out with a with a a study on how cloud is used and specifically cloud code which just celebrated one year anniversary a few days ago which is insane but you know fifty plus percent of all of the the the tool chain calls and the messages sent out by claude are for software development so that the it's not even close like the next thing is like four percent i think that's like legal or something related so it just shows you like how quickly that's overtaking our industry but in the in terms of the hobby like for companies and organizations and small hobby shops to to to shows like what they're doing to improve and take advantage of what is a lower barrier of entry now for systems and things to run their business you know because most of the businesses in the hobby are small business right i mean there's the giants and then there's a few in the middle but there's a lot of small businesses whether it's a breaker or a you know your you know your lcs or what have you so i think there's a huge opportunity now to use these tools and to leverage the experience of of your your time in the hobby and and do some good things for your business and not just and i'm not just saying that because you're like hey you should come hire inferno red like you should but if you're not going to like i think there's a lot of opportunity for people to do some pretty cool things so the you just touched on something that i i wanna dig into and i think that's when we ai right now is so disruptive in the tech space especially with doing what you do with development and it's very the changes happened it's continuing to evolve it there's we talk about content we listen to there's new updates all the time and i think about all these changes that are happening then i look at the industry of the hobby and it it there is less adoption of ai there's people are still trying to figure it out when i hear people talking about use cases it's like oh look at i created this picture or i'm using it like google which is just maybe it's me being sensitive because i came from the tech space and i'm like paying attention to it but it just seems like night and day so i think like the the perception of ai in the hobby is a lot different i maybe i'd love to get your feedback on like what do you think based on the worlds you're living in what is like the biggest misconception hobby businesses have on the application of ai right now in the industry i mean i think it's when you're saying these things was thinking about like when you talk to somebody who's not in the hobby and you say things like breaking or comps or wax you know singles stickers prism refractor like they're like what i didn't know that sports cards was still a thing right and you're and then in when you talk to people in nontech about you know ai agent tech tokens prompting context you know autonomous all of these different terms like i feel like it's not surprising that there's you know like people are generally familiar with the things that they're passionate about and that they and that they spend their time in and if you're not in software development then those things aren't going to mean as much to you if you're not in the collectible space or you're not in the hobby like those aren't those things you know not gonna mean as much to you and when you say the national immediately people in the hobby know what that is like if you say that outside of the circle then people are is what is that the national what right and so i feel like trying to bring and bridge those two things together is important and and if you just start at the consumer level like ai to the consumer or even to like so like think of the the nontech hobby world you know that's asking chatgp a chatt the chatgtp a question right which is like the most underused use of ai in the world or i i'm i'm sure i just said that wrong but you you get what i'm saying like it's like you know it's it's like taking a ferrari to starbucks like it's okay you can do that but like do you understand like how fast and exotic that car is and so if you understand like that's where peep most people are starting you have to work down from there and look at like okay how can we find ways for small business owners entrepreneurs collectors who are in the space to leverage the power and the these tools are changing like i said exponentially can can give and you know that may start by asking questions to chat p t chat god why can't i talk today chat g chat gpt or claude or gen gemini and about a card or about comps or whatever it might be and then start to think about like using tools to build other tools like using it to maybe create a list or a document or an excel sheet of their hobby or i mean of their collection in the hobby and then starting to grow from there and if they're interested to continue to start to develop other tools and all the way up to apps right which was the barrier to entry for most for most collectors for sure and definitely a barrier and a cost barrier often to companies who wanted to build software because it was cost prohibitive because software engineering was is expensive and was expensive but that seems to be being being brought down so if that barrier is removed then you can start to focus on the ideas that make a difference in the hobby so if you're collecting you know we've talked a lot about you know collection management and checklists and decision help and support and there's there's great ideas out there that can come to fruition and if you're a hobby shop you know ideas on way to to create efficiencies in your business automate something that's manual you know manage inventory or manage sales or what manage the the fan experience when you walk in the door those kind of things now start to become a much more of a creative process and less you know frustration in tech and so i mean i think that's one of the one of the ways to look at all this is like you can now start to step into these worlds these two worlds so if you're technical you can step into the hobby and if you're in the hobby you can step into the into the tech world and and not be intimidated by by what you see so i don't if that answers your question like do do you think that the use cases for ai in the hobby and like right now there's just a lot of experimentation i think with businesses and with collectors do you think the maybe products or apps that get built or developed during this next wave will come from businesses who have figured out how to use ai to maybe eliminate steps and automate things and save themselves times and that will then become packaged up and other businesses will start use it looking at what what their competitors are doing and doing that and there's a proliferation there or do you think kinda innovation will happen at maybe the the user level or the collector level where certain collectors are using ai tools to research or find things out about cards and that is what then gets spread out and people start using it like have you thought about that i'm curious like yeah the way you think about kind of the evolution or the next wave of ai in the space whether it's brands driving it or individual collectors i mean i think at the end at the end of the day it's the outcome right it's the value of the thing that you're working with or or creating and the motivation to do so so i think i mean the consulting answer is it's both and it depends right i mean i think that the large you know b to b the large cons you know b to c companies that are out in the in the hobby are going to have the resources and the motivation to use these tools for time to market for products and services so whether it's like improving and i have no idea and no insight to whether this is actually happening as a as a disclaimer you know so whether it's like making it faster to process creating cards whether it's you know time to market for products if you're developing products or if you are you know if you're in the space and you're in comps or what i i there's so many use cases but their motivation is is is time to market or in time to value because they're typically their revenue or their their motivations are are driven by that so you know that's gonna that's gonna allow them to apply resources and and and spend time and money and and people time to do these things on the in the hobby level you it's a different motivation typically right it's it's and the way that these tools are set up most people aren't creating products that are gonna be consumed by others like maybe they get lucky and they decide oh this is something cool that i'm gonna put out there but they're gonna be working and using thing ai to generate things that matter to them and that they use and tailor towards exactly what they want and so that's gonna be driven by people who have a passion for solving that problem or creating that experience for themselves and it's just gonna be in my opinion i mean there's gonna be just a a large number of those right it's just gonna be unique applications or use cases or services that are just built by people who don't know how to code and they don't need to and they're speaking natural language to these tools and you know ai is going out and using its superpowers to do these things and you know that's fine and i think that that's exciting i think that the the more power people have to to build things that matter and help them in their daily life i mean that's what ai is supposed to do right it's supposed to improve life for humans which still remains to be seen by the way like in fact like if you read enough you know doom scrolling out there about what ai is actually potentially going to do with like the job market and the environment and all these things it gets pretty scary pretty quick but you know i i believe that there is there is cause for concern in some of these things but at the same time like you know there's a bit of a creative destruction path going on where there'll be a lot of opportunity as well and we'll see some pretty amazing things that were which just would have been time and cost prohibitive before so i wanna walk through maybe a hypothetical scenario but i think it's probably pretty real for you based on what i know about you and i feel like you're you spend a lot of time on the road right when the client needs something or a potential new client you're usually getting in the air and going to meet them on-site and so i wanted to like walk through a hypothetical scenario of like a hobby business and i'm just i'm a like draw some like parameters to this and like get your consulting brain on this so the audience can understand kind of maybe visualize or contextualize like where opportunities might be with businesses and i hope if you're an operator in a business or you work within a hobby business like these are some of the things that you're thinking about and we'll start here so like the business let's say they're five million dollars in revenue they've got like five to ten people working there lot of manual workflows they're selling on ebay also selling direct they're managing inventory they've got a customer support line margins matter a lot let's start with you maybe getting a phone call and this phone call leads you to meeting them in person and kinda learning more but if you walk into the business with your background and just your knowledge of the space what are you looking for with this potential customer first like what is your process as you're trying to kinda do discovery and understand where the fit might be yeah i mean i think so depending if it's in the hobby space and you know you just described what could be an online business or a hobby shop or an individual seller who's just you know flipping buying and flipping very successfully at that revenue with their team first and foremost it's like you know what is it what's your mission and purpose like what is it that what is it that you're trying to do and you know you and i talked a little bit about this earlier it's like it's not a question of okay the mission and purpose of my team or myself is to come in and convince you to hire us or convince you to to do something it's excuse me it's it's what is it that you're trying to achieve for your customer your client for your business like our you know the the mission and purpose is to you know create an exclusive environment for people to buy unique pokemon cards that can't be found anywhere else in the world and we're gonna have the highest graded and we're gonna have the bet the easiest and smoothest way to do that i mean i'm making that up like we should definitely start that business and figure out you know and start from there and then when you start to and then when you break down okay but what does it take to actually achieve that mission and purpose and you look and say okay well what are your pain points what is it that you're trying to do to solve in that problem and and complete that mission and in the case where you're saying where there's a lot of manual work obviously ai is incredibly good at workflows it's incredibly good at automation so what can we do to increase the productivity of the humans in the loop or increase the productivity for ai itself like it meaning there's this current problem i think in business where they're thinking about ai and they're developing solutions based on a human process like a process built for humans that tries to make you know the human friction as low as possible but ai doesn't have the same limitations as humans do in terms of like availability reasoning context you know the ability to to do things even on a computer quickly work with data analyze create workflows all these things and so sometimes you have to rethink the process for an agent or an ai system rather than try to make something that was built for humans work with ai and i might have said that before i feel like that's something we talked about in the last episode but i think that's even if you're working with a small business and you're just talking about how can we make it say you're a hobby shop and you buy singles what can we do to make that process frictionless how can you if you're a high volume shop if you're doing five million dollars a year then that's a part of your business how can you make sure that you know you're capturing what you're buying what you're buying it at at the point of sale at the same time you're trying to talk to the person who brought it in they likely brought in a box of a hundred cards where you're only buying ten of them just the ones that you value and then you know there's margin on like all these things go into your go into the process but how can you make that as as easy for the person who's the one making the decision to buy them and also for that customer who's standing there waiting for you to do it or the three people that are lined up behind that person who are waiting for you to get done because they came in to sell their cards and buy new products so you're you know you're creating a better experience for the users so there's you know like when you're thinking about all these scenarios and you're really understanding like what that process is and what that workflow is like where can you remove friction and that's what i think ai is really going to be successful at for these types of businesses but i don't know that's off the top of my head brad like that's what i would do that's pretty good so you've given me something that i'm i'm visualizing because we've all experienced it and maybe if you could like get down in the weeds a little more but i we've all been in the hobby shop when the dude walks in with like u haul box of stuff and is like hey can can you look at this i'm trying to sell it to you and then you know maybe the hobby shop owner or one of the workers is like you know come back at you know sunday at three because our buy this is when our buyer's gonna be here and then they leave with this big box and who knows if they come back that that i'm i'm assuming based on what i've heard from you is like that whole process could be streamlined and maybe could be done in the moment if like the right tech infrastructure is in place maybe supported by ai like help us understand like what what might be like an actual use case that like if you're a hobby shop owner right now and you're listening to this and that scenario is something that you're used to like what what how do you like what's the easiest way to help your current process because right now it sounds like there's not much process except for like wait and come back when we're available well i mean i think that depends on the places and so if we just continue with that scenario i mean at least at the hobby shops in in around where i live in northern virginia and we have a variety of them and and i'm i'm kinda cheating a little bit because i know like my son works at continental cards in ashburn virginia so if you are in the area stop at continental cards ask for christopher he works on the weekends he's a he's in college so anyways when when you're in the shop and this and i saw this you know in other shops around here locally i don't see those scenarios where they're like hey our buyer's on sunday like i feel like that's not actually what i see and even if we went to the indy card exchange when we were there you know my friend has you know one on one cards in cleveland and gametime cards in in orlando i know a lot of people who have these these these shops and generally speaking there's always somebody they're buying right they're they buy and sell all the time so the scenario that you described of like somebody being a buyer that isn't actually what i've experienced it's the scenario i laid out which is like somebody comes in they do come in like they're like hey they come in with like you know a handful of cards and they're like oh yeah i can help you and then they're like wait let me go get the rest and then they go to the car and they bring in like the giant you know banker's box full of stuff or the three row box that has nineties basketball and baseball that's and football that's all been overprinted and they're like yeah i found this in my basement like or in the attic and somebody told me i should come in and talk to you guys and you don't wanna be like you don't wanna be the you you gotta treat excuse me i'm dying today you don't want to you know turn anybody away obviously but and and you have to kinda move through that quickly so you do look at the cards right and you do take time with the customer to do that and that's what i've seen but when you finally get to it some places are more advanced than others like some have a point of sale system where they can very quickly like you know tag a card and scan it but i haven't seen a lot of that actually like there's i see it on the buy side or the sell side when they're like they already have the card and they're they're using a barcode or a qr system and they're using you know stripe or whatever platform they have in inside for their point of sale and they're able to scan and pull from inventory and that's all great that problem's kind of been solved right like i i feel like that problem's been solved but like the point at which they're intaking these cards into the in real time at the front like right there then they're doing two things right they're not only are they assessing the the condition of a card they're pulling up comps in real time on their phones on an ipad or whatever to to come up with what they're willing to pay for it because no one ever comes in with a true understanding of what the cards are worth that's something they're asking you to do and then they're making an offer and then let's just say for like most shops it's like there's some percentage for cash and there's some percentage value for store credit and then once they buy the card they have to move that card into inventory and so that process happens in real time so i mean i haven't built this yet or thought about how to do it in-depth but like i know that's an existing problem maybe somebody listening out there has a solution for it maybe there's something i haven't seen or i'm i'm sure there is like it probably already exists but like you know that's where using ai to create and and just take the essence of that problem and use the tools to tell the story to create the prd to follow spec driven development without any coding experience and then building something that might work like that's where you know that's where i feel like the opportunities lie in in these smaller businesses and and that's just one scenario there's dozens more like that in every hobby shop when you start to to talk about what they do if you start to get into the back office like there's there's no shortage of of ways to apply this tech in my opinion okay now now we're on to something so we we've let's let's say the the audience member out there like has this already built and developed and they they reach out to infernorent and they're just like hey can you help me make sure that we've got this thing up to enough speeds that we can go to market with this and you sign off on it with your team and you're like this is what these hobby shops need in order to kind of automate their workflows and enhance the experience for their customers and so this product this hypothetical product we're talking about gets put on the market and let's say there's a handful of adopters early hobby shops and these are not the hobby shops that look like maybe nineteen ninety five they're the hobby shops that are like more modern right they're they're this is where people wanna go hang out what what like how big of a gap do you those early adopters will have on their competition if they're if they implement something like this that can save them time save them money like how big of the separation is is going to happen do you think from businesses who make the decision like right now or in the next six months to adopt some of these ai tools as opposed to everyone else who's just going to continue to you know work off the same you know system or strategy and process that they've been working on for years like how big of a gap do you think can be made in terms of the adopters and those who are just sitting and staying pat i mean the really cliche saying that's out there is like in in in our field and and others that are being disrupted is that you know you're not gonna lose your job to ai but you will lose your job to somebody who learns ai i don't know if that's actually true for my business space or software engineering that may or may not be true we'll see how that lasts you know i i feel pretty strongly that like the early adopters are the ones who are gonna have the advantage over people who are just waiting for like ai to kind of settle down and all the mistakes have been made and all the lessons i've learned i don't think that's a plausible approach anymore than just you know trying to figure out what it takes to to do these things now because the tech is if you if you don't do that if you're not an early adopter and i say this i don't know if it necessarily applies only to the hobby definitely applies to software engineering and tech maybe not so much to like everyone's everyday life but for sure in your business and if you're in finance or marketing or any of these potential disruptors or fields that will be disrupted you have to try you have to learn now you have to start right now like you you are already behind and the truth is that if you don't start now you're gonna miss the learning curve you're gonna not experience making the mistakes because ai is changing so rapidly the use cases are changing the application of the tech the type of tech like the way that it's going to impact businesses definitely small businesses first because they're just the barriers are much less they they operate on innovation where big enterprise operate on risk and so you are and what i mean by that is like you know ebay is not swapping out all their desks for ai but like a startup will start with ai right so you know if you're not experiencing that learning curve and and riding that wave i think you're missing out on all of the opportunity to really have all the understanding that you need to be successful as quick as possible if you just wait you're just gonna get blown past by everybody else who's already started so i feel pretty strongly about that i can tell i'm i think it's also maybe would be fair to get your perspective on the i i there's risk with anything in just like hobby businesses that might be trying to figure this out right now and chasing ways to implement ai like where will hobby businesses burn the most money chasing ai like what where can where can owners and operators mitigate risk right now as they're looking through how to apply ai to what they're doing well i mean i so you know nontechnical businesses like the hobby like for if you're not building a a technical product within the hobby shouldn't be chasing ai right like you should be you should be solving problems that matter to your business you should be finding ways to reduce friction like i just described with a process or something that's going to improve the experience of the collector or your customer or reduce you know the amount of cost for something right increase your margin matters it's okay that you wanna be profitable like you don't have to be you know a if you're if you're looking at you know the something like the hobby spectrum it's okay to be a tycoon brett you don't always have to be in the the purest side of of the hobby spectrum shout out to to the hobby spectrum project but you know i think that's the first and foremost like find the thing that is that you wanna solve the problem and then start to to think about the solution because i think people hand wave sometimes these things as like it's just a hammer looking for a nail right and like that is not the case with this i don't believe that to be true i'm i know that that's not true it's not the same as some of the other you know technical innovations over the last you know twenty thirty years where there was that was the case blockchain but if if in the world of although blockchain is gonna make a comeback just just mark my words you heard it here first yeah it's agents have to be able to to talk to each other and communicate and pay so blockchain is i think very much in crypto very much when that's a whole another story that's another episode but but solve the problem first right and like don't chase it like find ways to find things that you want to fix and and take advantage of and then see if it's the right technology and you know if you're bill if you're looking at something where people had told you in the past you need to build something custom then i think ai is a really good tool for you to try to do something build a prototype or build a sample or or find a way to automate a service or a workflow or you know take that spreadsheet that takes you three hours every night when you close the shop and you have to like run the finances or you know balance inventory and and find a way to use ai to automate that or to help you solve that problem like that's where the value is going to be and start with those things the and then the other thing oh by the way like most important like ai can teach you ai like you should use you should ask it to tell you how to solve a problem or to teach you how to use something like claude cowork or copilot in a way that makes sense for you to apply it to the problem you're trying to solve you don't have to sit there and like research the internet and you know become a software engineer you just need to ask and that's one of the beauties like it will tell you and it will walk you through it now right like wasn't always like that but now it's very it's very collaborative in that sense and so that's what that's how i would approach it is there any foundational work that you would recommend hobby businesses do before seeking help from ai i mean you made mention you can use ai to learn about ai which i think is a is a no brainer but is there anything specifically you'd recommend businesses do before they get really serious about implementation of ai so like i think it's fundamentally that first step that i just covered is important like make sure you have you understand the use case and the problem that you're trying to solve the best that you possibly can i would take the time to collaborate with humans like that's everyone starts with the tech they're curious on how the tech can solve their problems but i just experienced that a client recently in the hobby that we work with an entire planning session for two days that was completely run by humans with collaborative conversations and context around what they do and how they do it with you know frankly no ai involved like no meeting notes being summarized in the meeting it was people talking to people about what they do and how features of the software that we're building would improve their their life and their work and their products and things like that and i mean it was refreshing to see that that is still such an important part of solving any problem is just to start with you know human thought and human interaction you know these tools are so powerful and they're so so readily available now that and and it's enticing and it seems magical and it's like it's answering questions that would take you know humans hours to research and and so on that's all true and that's fine but it's important to remember that the tools are there to improve human life and to make our work and time spent together more meaningful and the things that we work on more important so do that right talk to people in your business talk to your customers talk to people who are interested in and are passionate about this hobby and see what they're doing and what they think and start there and then move into okay now that i understand the problem and i have some ideas on how to solve it now let me start researching it with the ai tools and then move into you know a pattern of okay now let me pull together you know the requirements and what i need to do to solve that problem and then let me go build something or buy something or hire someone like whatever it might be it's not always a technical solution sometimes it's you know it's adding the right person to your business so i know that seems odd to say in a company that builds software but you know we can't build software without people no matter no matter how much ai there is in the world we still need humans i i wanna make sure we leave listeners with maybe one key takeaway before we get out of here and you just shared a lot and a lot of great insight and feedback and i think what i've observed in this space especially on the business side is there's a lot of owners and operators that are ai curious they're they they hear it in the headlines they see it they read it and they're they're trying to figure out how do we apply this or how do we think about this how do we not get left behind what if if there is a owner or operator of a business listening you shared a lot of information but like what is one thing kinda in the next thirty days if they're if if all they've done all their belongings in the back or done or are using chatgpt as google like what what recommend like what is one recommendation you'd you'd give them to kinda take that next step i mean it can feel overwhelming right like it's very easy to be overwhelmed if you start to to say okay where do i where do i begin especially if you're a business owner you know i still feel really strongly at least on the business operation side and this is from my own experience in running a business it's you know find something that is painful for you and that you would just love to change you know open up your favorite ai platform tool i like using gemini for solving business problems and asking questions i think gems are really powerful and if you use gemini you'll figure that out i claude is very good at software engineering but it's you know these tools are starting to become a lot more generic's not the right term like the tools that were great for coding are becoming great for researching tools that were great for research are becoming great for coding so it doesn't really matter almost like where you start but like don't don't just use the free versions right pay the twenty bucks use some of the more advanced models because so often people get started they're like it didn't really do what i thought like it didn't really answer it any better and it's the the problem is like the free versions aren't exactly that they're really powerful but they're free for a reason and you know even on our engineering side like i've just recently one of our devs was like yeah just not quite what i thought it would be and was like which model are you using they're like yeah i'm in the twenty dollar tier for cloud i'm like i'm upgrading you to a cloudmax subscription today and and he spent the weekend working with it and he was like oh my god totally yeah i'm like yeah that's because you're driving you're not driving the ferrari on the track you're driving the honda on the track like take the ferrari out and go see but if you get started i mean like and just just start asking questions and be very instead of well actually let me just take that step back don't just ask the question like describe the problem that you wanna solve and start there and like start to describe what it is that you want the outcomes to be not just don't just ask it questions don't be like hey how do i do this or what do you think it's like this is what i want this is what i need this is the outcome that i want and you'll be surprised at what you get that's why so many analysts are saying that like the tools are being underutilized for what their capabilities are you know i didn't even talk about like agents and autonomous and open call another episode scott there's a lot of meat on that bone cloud co work and like autonomous engineering tech all of this stuff wait like you're you're gonna see like you know there's there's a lot of crazy stuff happening right now but you know if if you're just if you're just trying to get started as a small business and you're like i'd rather take time learning this than you know sitting in the back of the office like not having dinner with my family because if that hap you know that happens right these shops close at like seven o'clock the owners are there till ten and they're not just like hanging around looking at cards although that often happens but you know you you you have to manage your time and let's let's make and reduce the friction let's make things better life better reduce the friction get started so yeah i don't know that's a a bunch of nonsense there maybe i don't know no i i think it's good and honestly it's you've you you might have inspired me and we might need to give a commission to you based on this but man i'm running out of my research tokens and i'm just like do i need to make it to the next level and it's like the the gap between what i'm paying now and the next level is significant but it's becoming a part of my work life and i just feel like very very excited about just the opportunity of ai and especially in the hobby and so i'm excited when i see more businesses using it and talking about it and hopefully just in these episodes owners operators and even collectors are getting some ideas about how they can think about applying ai to their workflow scott appreciate all of the insight and appreciate all of the listeners out there for checking this out absolutely appreciate the time brett