alright everybody welcome back excited to be jumping into a fun conversation today been talking a lot about global expansion and i think this conversation will shed a lot of light and insight of what's happening in the market outside of the us and into europe we're gonna be talking about building psa europe and serving the global collector i am joined by matthias pukart who is the gm of psa europe and ceo and he's got an awesome background he's been in his role for a little over a year so we're gonna dive into just what he's working on the expansion obviously we have to hit just the demand at psa and his thoughts on managing through all of that but without further ado matthias welcome how are you thanks for asking brett and i'm very excited to be here so this is my first us podcast so let's see how it goes what will be as easy as possible on you and i'm i'm excited because oftentimes we get so wrapped up in what's happening in the us market and there's so many cool things happening abroad and just there's this expansion across the board in almost every region in the world right now and maybe just like we'll start there maybe if you wanna just shed some light on in this year you you've you've been in your role like what has the rise in collector base in europe look like i mean we we hear about it we see some numbers but you've been in your role for about a year what's what's it been like to see so much interest in collectibles yes so i've been in my role yeah i just celebrated my first anniversary so i'm very happy to be in that role yeah and for me it was a very busy year because so we had to build up our organization from the scratch had to identify two new offices so one in frankfurt we're also working to launch our receiving center in london this year so it has been exciting right and that was also for me being in a new role learning about a new company what needs to be done and then most of all setting up with a new team so currently beginning of next month we are going to be close to one hundred people so and how about them write down the the stretch of this project so you i i'm curious what attracted you to the role at psa you know you have a pretty extensive career history spending a lot of time at amazon and some other stops along the way but what was it about psa and the opportunity to lead psa europe that you thought it was a no brainer and you jumped on board yeah so i've been yeah i've been building digital businesses than more for twenty years so but even longer i've been a collector so on combining those two passions was really something yeah like a match made in heaven so and yeah i started collecting in the nineties so and then i've been for a pretty long time already a psa customer so this was for me then something which was really really exciting because it came at the perfect timing so i was in between two jobs and then yeah getting the opportunity to join a company which you admire for a pretty long time and then on the other side helping to build something what has been missing in europe for a pretty long time and what collectors on the ground have been asking for also for many many years so that's why that was for me like combining my two biggest passions that's awesome and i think i i'd be interested to maybe get your perspective with you talking about starting the office and just the business from scratch in europe you know obviously it's you're a part of a bigger and broader organization and collectors and there's a lot of things going on with that business and a lot of different resources but has it felt i know you have this probably the support of the broader organization but has it felt like maybe working in a startup in a in a way you know building our office hiring a bunch of new roles probably identifying roles that should be there you know midway through your first year like do you feel like it it's kind of been a startup experience in a way although you're a part of a broader organization yeah yes and no yeah and and that's a really good question because i like that one so there was an awesome support from our us colleagues also from other from our other international colleagues like japan and so that's why there was a lot of support but let's say a lot of things so let's say the nitty gritty stuff so needs to be done on the ground so that's why it was always like a part of you know you still have that startup feeling so when you walk into the office each and every day so a lot of things need to be done there on the other hand let's say the knowledge the expertise definitely is a lot of help from the us because of what european collectors are expecting from us is not to build psa europe so it was like to build a branch of psa and they are looking for the real thing so the real thing is what they know from the us so that's why we don't need to reinvent the wheel or need to build something new so it is really like we need to bring in the same experience and the same quality standards which everybody knows in the in from europe they get in the us so that's why we need to have the same standards so that's why i'm really thankful that also a lot of colleagues so are relocating permanently now from the us to frankfurt so this is helping us a lot in terms of educating and teaching the team on the ground and then also securing that we do have the same standards so that's why you still get the excitement of of of start up but still having your big brother always there to support you i love that and maybe like when you step foot and you were hitting the ground running in your role what were some of the big observations that you noticed right away and it could be you know in regards to the opportunity with the business it could be regards to just the the collector in europe like what were some of the things that you started to notice right away yeah for me and that was one of my first observations and also i guess the most important ones was really that i in the whole interview process or let's say the whole onboarding process i was always talking to really passionate collectors so it's very tough to find someone who's not collecting and that was really for me part of that i really like to join the company because wherever i went and was it ryan hawk or nat turner all of them are really die hard collectors so this really made it for me fun and also give me yeah the safety of joining the right company because when you make your passion to your profession so this is always something which can make you worry and then maybe you might lose the love for the hobby so that was really a valid thought in my head but then talking to the company and going through the different departments and talking to different persons so this really gives me gave me a really good feeling in terms of i'm making the right step so and also along the process and and what i've learned in in those twelve months was really that people do care about what is required and what we are asked from collectors and this is exactly what i consider my task to also transport that to europe because we need to listen to the community and i guess there's a lot of similarities between collectors in the us and in europe but let's say while and this is what i learned because i went to shows all over the world so i've been to the national before i've been to the fanatics fan fest i've i was at the west coast car show so i've seen a lot of us car car shows and what you see there is like the long heritage of collecting so it goes from grandparents to parents to the kids and you see that at shows everywhere while let's say the big bang in europe was really covid and where a lot of people then started really being passionate about collecting and then bringing out their old pokemon cards or their old sports cards and so since then we see tremendous growth so i guess the hobby is growing everywhere but we see exponential growth in europe right now so that's why for us it is a bit of a different task compared to the us so for us it is more like educating the customers explaining to them what needs to be done and then we also have another hurdle because due to the introduction of tariffs one and a half years ago so customers haven't been really able to submit their cards to psa they always had to go through dealers and middlemen so that's why no one has really done or let's say the broader audience hasn't done any submissions so that's why we need to maybe start a bit from from square one really explaining what is the value of grading what needs to be done how is the submission is done so i guess those are the main differences there are not many but there are some so i love that and just the maybe the european market is less mature when it comes to grading based on all the hurdles the european collector has had to go through to get their cards graded and authenticated that that all makes sense and you mentioned education so as you get up and running obviously you're trying to let your region know that you exist and you're there and you can take submissions and do all the things that you know us in the us are used to when we send in our cards like how has that education maybe taken shape like what are the ways that you think about effectively getting the word out about psa's presence in europe maybe talk through kind of what your mindset has been to make sure that people know now that they can you know turn to psa europe to get their cards graded and authenticated or other items that they want graded and authenticated yeah there's already a large group out there who are desperately waiting so i guess i've so once this has been announced that i'm taking over that role so my linkedin my instagram got swamped with questions about and people really being passionate about it hey when it's going to be start and what does it take when i can submit and everything so that's my the first step we are currently in is is more like communicating a bit about the timelines because customers you can trust me they are really excited so and and let's say so i guess you can yeah you can imagine that so a lot of collectors are currently sitting on a ton of cards because they have been cautious about sending their precious cards a long time to the us and then worrying about when getting it back so let's say a lot of customers have been hesitant in terms of submitting their cards so that's why so this is the first group of collectors we are talking about so they know what's happening they are just waiting there and they are just waiting for us to get started so this is the first step of communication so the next step is then because we are currently in the soft launch phase this means currently we accept submissions starting from next week on from our dealers from our partners we've done a tremendous job because so far no one so far like i said in the beginning one and a half years no one was able to submit outside of dealers so they helped a lot in terms of keeping grading alive for european collectors so that's why in the soft launch we only take in submissions from collectors but shortly after that we are going to open up for the public and so right now what we are preparing is more like looking into what we already have let's say from the us what we can localize and you know the beauty of europe is you drive four hours and then someone speaks a total different language so that's why we are currently focusing on the five big languages in terms of localization and making this available to available to all our customers making it more convenient to do your submissions and so that's why our task is now to preparing exactly that customer education in those five different languages being aware that there are other languages out there like dutch or finnish or so whatever language is out there so in europe we are talking about forty different languages so that's why we are trying to cover the the major part of it i that i that adds a whole another layer of complexity into just what you're doing and i'm glad you pointed that out i'm thinking about you and i'm thinking about this startup phase soft launch communication education and just thinking about the team that you have and the team you're organizing around and what whatever the role whatever the function and i'm this topic i've been very curious in talking with other owners operators people plugged inside of hobby businesses because the infrastructure in this industry is is forming right now and it's crazy with all the demand on grading the record high prices across the board there's just been so much going on and it's of my mindset that we need more smart people working in this industry like people like you leaving your role and coming in to work in sports cards and i'm sure like you are razor focused or laser focused on trying to make sure you have the right people on the the team and i'm curious like when you are thinking about recruiting when you're thinking about hiring like how do you think about having like domain knowledge of this individual knows sports cards or knows collectibles and then on this other side you have like career experience so they they have worked in an organization for a certain amount of time and have earned all of these career experiences that we could find valuable at psa europe like how do you think about kind of those two domain versus career experience and just like how they overlap in terms of the team you're building at psa europe yeah that was one of the things i was really scratching my head one year ago because i said okay while the hobby is growing in europe do we have enough talent and let's say also experience in terms of the hobby here in europe and that was one of my biggest surprises because i can give you a very good example when we did the first round of hiring graders and i was really concerned because it's a broad field because everything in tcg everything in sports and you bring in like something new like soccer is very important in europe as well so that's why you see all the us cards and you see all the tcg cards and i was totally blown away by the quality of people applying at psa and we ran the first tests and everything and i was totally wowed how those guys did so they had awesome results honestly and they came and this was also then something with which also surprised me it was not something like a local thing like frankfurt or that area or germany so we got applications all over europe and this was really amazing how much talent we have seen in that so that's why i was really positively surprised and then in in certain roles it might be a bit more challenging especially in senior roles to find guys who are collecting but let's say so this is the beauty what we want to build so we want to work together as a team so we want to be in the office together and we want to learn from each other and we want to participate from the experiences so and let's say we have die hard collectors so their life is collecting we have people who are experts in their role and in their job and maybe when the first step collecting or hobby knowledge is not that important so but we still want to build that team spirit in terms of we want to do some special for the for the collectors community in europe and sometimes and this is what i can tell you out of my own experience collecting in europe can be sometimes tough because allocation is not as much as what you see in the us you don't get access to all the cards you always have to deal with let's say customs and the uncertainty of long shipping times and so that's why we want to make that a great service also and and we want to bring the collecting community or we want to allow the collecting community to make the next steps in europe as well and sometimes and i would not one hundred percent copy that but what i hear from the collectors community in europe is always like yeah we feel like second class citizens because we don't get all the cards we don't get all the special boxes being released it's tough for us to go to us shows and so that's why we want to bring that same experience now on the ground and make life easier for collectors and so that's why you can only build that with the right set of people and i guess yeah it's tough to praise yourself so but i guess we as a team we made a great job in terms of bringing in the right people with being great in their job but also bringing in enough hobby knowledge which is also required and at the same time like i said in the beginning very thankful for those guys who leave their life in the us behind and then coming to frankfurt so i would never move from california to frankfurt but there are guys lobbying there no just kidding so frankfurt is a great city so and still imagine you're leaving your life behind building something new which is also exciting and and again i really love that we get a bunch of very experienced us folks coming over helping us to launch here in europe i love that and i love that insight that there is some individuals coming over from hq to come build help you build what you're building in europe and let's talk about frankfurt i'm i'm curious and interested the why behind frankfurt i definitely traveling globally i've definitely been through the frankfurt airport and it's massive and i think i lost maybe two pounds running from one end to the other to try to catch a flight but i know you know you've got the the airport where there's just a lot of connections and a lot of people coming and going but what is it about frankfurt why was frankfurt the spot to stand psa europe up yeah that's the fun part so if you ever go from a domestic flight into an international flight or the other way around you need to be fit to get to the right gate so this is the test so but joking aside so so frankfurt is very centrally located so usually in europe we say frankfurt is in the heart of europe and you already mentioned it so we do have a great logistics hub there we do have great train access we have a great air airport there so let's say so this allows easy access for collectors all over europe because we are not building something for germany only so we're building something for europe and so that's why frankfurt is in terms of that and a lot of thought and intelligence went into finding the right spot because so you need to have access to talent as well what we just learned so we can check that off that list and you need to collectors you need to have collectors there so we also have great card shows around frankfurt and also in frankfurt one of the bigger european card shows so this checked a lot of boxes we also find or we were able to find a great building for us which allows us then to realize this project but also future projects so this is what we are currently working on so i guess frankfurt checked a lot of boxes but what was also equally important to that because if you're looking into the uk and uk is not part of the eu anymore so that's why it was equally important to us to also then do something for the collectors in the uk because it's also a large community very vital community and then celebrating the big launch in frankfurt and saying hey we are now serving european customers and leaving that important part of the community outside would have felt really really bad so that's why i'm i'm i consider myself very lucky to then also being able now end of this year launching a receiving center and then bringing those guys also providing them the same benefits which all other collectors in europe get so this really is a huge step and i'm very happy about it that we are able to do that what what does local access in europe change for european collectors i'm sure you know you've probably had this conversation a million times internally but i'd love to kinda get your perspective and insight in how this might change the environment that you're currently in yeah it it it will help to mature the the collecting community in europe and the collecting market because so i can tell you i i've been submitting for many many years my cards to the us and you mentioned in the beginning so with two little kids so imagine you're sending the precious cards of a ten year old like my son for the first time to the us and you can imagine i got the question where are my cards when they are arriving have you seen it are they there are they being graded and everything so all the questions so this is like a bit of nerve wracking not only for the ten year old but also for the dad and let's say it was always like so you had long shipping times you had to deal with customs so and then for me example for me shipping a package from munich to santa ana was always above one hundred euros just for the shipping so one one direction so then it was always like ah your card's being stuck in customs and then you had to do a lot of red tape and fill out a lot of documents and everything so and it was let's say very time intense and then also nerve wracking for the whole family because also mom was going crazy with all the questions what is happening with the cards and everything so that's why so this will make things easier and this will also help to mature the whole market because if you compare now let's see what you see in us card shows versus european card shows let's say it is tough and then there's also a different pricing for example on graded cards on psa slabs because it's not that easy to access and it's not too as easy as in the us to get your hands on them and so that's why it will also help them to develop that whole market on a on a different level so on this is then i guess we are going to see a lot of sweet cards which haven't surfaced yet and they are going to get public because as i said in the beginning a lot of collectors are sitting on some fire in europe as well and they are just waiting to waiting to get those cards graded and i guess this will also help us because i'm very excited now for our social media team because we are going to see some sweet cards which are then becoming public and then for everyone to see i always say this to my friends at collectors in psa whenever i get a chance that my favorite social posts are the posts of a card that just gets graded that everyone just wants to see and maybe didn't know it existed and now it's in a psa slab and it gets put up on instagram right that gets the likes the comments the shares and there's a virality built into the service that you're all offering all you have to do is just post it up on instagram obviously getting with the approval of the owner of the card i'm sure that's a step in that so do do you anticipate when the engine is humming and cards are coming in that psa europe will be sharing some of those bangers that are being have gone through graded grading as a kind of not only a tactic to show that you're there and we're grading cards but also as a way to maybe get the attention of other collectors on social platforms yeah that's exactly the plan and i guess this is one of the things i'm really excited at of sharing when we allow to sharing those cards so a friend just sent me a picture of laminn yaman sapphire one of one autograph which is such a beautiful card and and he said yeah he's just waiting for us to open the doors and get that card graded and and and i guess we are going to see more so i've heard so many stories and and people approached me with cards sitting at their home waiting to be graded and i guess this is one of the most fun parts i'm looking forward to and we are definitely going to share that so we want to share that with not only with europe so we also want to share that worldwide so and then show and i guess this is part of the you know of the excitement of collecting to see what cards are really out there and i guess we are going to see also a lot of interesting cards also for the us market and which which have just been buried somewhere in a collection in europe so that's why this is going to be exciting for everyone how how do you think about that example is awesome someone just sending you a message with an incredible card that everyone wants to see so obviously that's like validation that yes there is in fact demand here and not only demand for just some cards but incredible cards that the whole world would love to see especially at this point with the world cup going on right now i'm curious the the demand obviously with grading is at an all time high and that's everyone knows that all the updates coming from collectors and just turnaround times and with you know putting a pause on certain levels it just shows the tension between demand and kind of the business real allocating resources around making sure clutches are getting their cards back as efficiently as possible like as that is going on and you're on the other side of the world building a business to serve a specific region of the world like how do you think about leading through that where in the us demands at an all time high and i would imagine like probably maybe not overnight but that same interest is gonna be there in europe like as a leader of the business like how how have what you how has what you've maybe seen in the us like how does that influence like how you're going about kind of building and scaling the european operation yeah that was really interesting for me to see when i when i joined the company because i saw the numbers i saw the volumes what we have to deal with and i had wild guesses about the volume but was totally blown away what what the actuals are and i guess this is what we are putting a lot of effort and and strategy and also investment on so we are talking about two hundred million what the company is planning to invest and i guess europe is also a big part of that investment and i guess what i see as task let's say of the leadership team or or also of the whole company is really bringing up enough capacity to deal with that demand because so i guess no one would ever thought three or four years ago that we would that we would be in a situation like that whether it's pokemon cards or sports cards so we see a lot of growth which is positive because the hobby community is getting bigger and bigger so which is good for all of us but on the other hand so it is a lot of it is a great challenge so and there's a lot of things like in terms of capacity so you need to have the right building so you cannot choose any any site for grading so you need to teach and you need to train graders for example and and the whole organization and i see so the launch of europe will also help and the us is also benefiting from that because less volume from europe flooding into the us will also help us customers in terms of hopefully reducing turnaround times and opening up more services and i guess the more volume we are going to see and have and then keeping the cards in europe will also then help the us network to bring down the current backlog so that's why we are also looking currently in in into ways where we can support the whole the whole network but again so this is then something what we need to wait for because what i've been looking for since more than twelve months is really what is the volume really going to be like because dealers as i said doing a great job in terms of getting the customers but not every customer wants to go through a dealer and so that's why this is still something what we've been calculating and thinking about and building up the right models but i'm really curious once we open up the doors and then we'll see how many cards are just waiting to be graded and what you hear going to shows and talking to collectors so there's a lot of lot of stuff out there but we are working really really hard and we already expanded our capacity before launch twice to make to to cards as we can but let's see so this is then something what you can calculate back and forth all day so but then seeing is believing so once once we get in the first big submissions then we'll see but this is this is also very exciting so and the only thing which keeps me up at night is really so we want to do a great job so we want to keep turnaround times at least at the level of the us so that's why yeah this is keeping me up at night can we really deal with that demand which is waiting out there which currently you cannot really predict what is coming in no you can't what a position to be in i'm curious you said you changed you changed kind of capacity i think two separate times before launch like what what were some of those signals that you saw in the buildup to the launch that caused you to reflect with your team and realize you know what there might be more demand than we initially forecasted yeah this is also where i'm really thankful to the management because so this is exact in an let's say a very theoretical discussion but you're looking at the numbers how us is evolving and growing you're looking at the numbers how for example japan is doing so what you do is then building on those numbers you see in in in those markets and you're trying to build an assumption for europe as well so which is then something which is a very theoretical discussion but thankfully management and the board was really open to that discussion and then even though we haven't launched yet expanding is also something which i've never seen before because so you made the reference at amazon so if i ever went to the board in the us and we're thinking like hey guys we haven't shipped any units right now but we need to expand because i expect us to do even better than great and surprise or let's say so this is also what made me think you've done the right decision because so this was a really open discussion we said hey guys we need to extend our footprint in the building we need to have more space and luckily there was more space available and so that's why we were able then to expand the capacity twice which we have just done so now we need to build it out but this is then something which is really good because it also gives us more flexibility in terms of taking in more capacity that's i love that and i wanna maybe talk about the amazon experience that you you had you spent a big chunk of your career at amazon and obviously with a a brand name like that anyone listening knows what amazon is and i'm i'm i've already had a package left on my front doorstep in the first few hours that i've been up from amazon as i imagine many other people have too like it's a the logistics behind that business are insane it's really changing the way we operate in the world from a consumer perspective and there's so much that goes into that business that's really admirable you are kind of front and center working inside of that business i'm sure seeing a lot of the innovation and change over the years i'm curious just your experience that you had and one of the biggest most recognizable brand names in the world like what what have you maybe taken from your experience at amazon and been able to apply to psa europe in the year you've been in the business yeah i guess the most yeah i guess the most important part and i've been thinking about it is really and i guess i see a lot of similarities in terms of customer obsession so that might sound a bit weird because so we have increased turnaround times and prices but i guess this is also giving everyone a headache in the organization and it's not let's say easy decisions to really make those and what i really where i see the similarities is really thinking about okay what is the right thing to do for the customer i guess that customer obsession i see a lot of similarities then it's also ownership because so you need to think about it and yeah also how to treat the customer and the yep so there are a lot of thinkings go into the same direction on the other hand one of the differences which i also appreciate is like that you treat those items as very special because amazon is about mass production getting the things very quick in getting those things very quick out so and i guess the main difference is really thinking about not only speed but also of quality and consistency and i guess this is also what the customer expecting especially from collectors slash psa so they they are looking like i said european collectors want the same thing like in the us and we want to provide that consistency and we also want to build that trust because you can imagine as a european customer you are sitting there and you think hey it's nice because i don't need to send it to the us i don't need to wait another extra two weeks until everything gets shipped i don't need to think about customs but on the other hand do i get the real thing is it are those guys they are new do they want to be stricter well and and i i felt so many things i've never thought about it and so that's why for me it was it it is really important then to build that trust right from the beginning and provide and give the customers the security of that consistency and that quality we want to provide but other than that i see a lot of similarities the i have been on this drumbeat and the listeners are probably tired of me hearing or saying it but i just believe in it so strongly and just the fact that i believe in order for this industry to continue to scale for it to continue to grow more individuals from outside of the hobby who have outside experience need to come in and plug into businesses like psa or start their own business i just think this these new ideas and fresh set of thinking whether you're in tech or fin fin serve or any of the industries i think it's really helpful and it's been there's been so much innovation since i've seen so many new people coming in and leaving their former industry and moving into collectibles and sports cards i'm curious where do you think the outside business experience like you coming from amazon or maybe some of your colleagues coming from other industries where do you think that can help the sports card industry and the hobby mature oh oh that's a tough one yeah i guess it's yeah for me so let's say looking at my journey in terms of collecting i guess it was more like fun and the beauty of cards and then really connecting memories especially in terms of collecting sports cards so in europe for example that was my start into the collector's journey it was more about i started in in the nineties so the bulls were the team of the nineties so and and it was really tough in terms of getting information you had to stay up late at night to watch the games and everything so it was also happening but on the other side is it it it was tough in terms of being connected to the nba in the nineties like in the us so it was way tougher and for me collecting cards was a way of connecting to to those guys i was watching late at night at tv so that wasn't something really which i admired and which brought me into collecting and so later then i started collecting pokemon cards and tcg cards with my son so this was then something more like which went from the community thing into a family thing and everything so it was also a lot of about making connections creating memories and i guess this is very special into that and hopefully we are not going to lose it because the industry is getting better the the bigger the business is getting bigger and bigger in each and every day day and i guess for me it would be quite important to keep that pure joy of collecting even though it is a big business and i also truly admire when someone is stepping out of his or hers business and building up a huge trading card business building a shop so this is also what we see in europe right now there are shops popping up everywhere which is also more and more exciting because which also means better access for everyone to into the carts so and so that's why for me really important let's keep that pure joy and that fun of of collecting even though it is getting a better business and then i guess there's a lot of things where the whole collecting could mature and i guess with with the features and tools which we want to provide to make collecting more safe for example with pop reports with card letter being a great tool in terms of comparing prices and everything better services together with partners like ebay and so on and so on vaulting i guess so this will help to mature the whole industry and i guess everyone brings in a history and there's a lot of very very smart people i already met and all the experiences are also flowing into that and i guess there's more to come and when i hear all the discussions we are currently have having internally and about the great services which are in the pipeline and are being launched i guess so this will also help to mature the whole business but i cannot let's say this one particular thing which you can bring in so there's no silver bullet let's put it that way and i guess so this industry has to evolve as well and and we are going to see a lot of great things coming up which will all collectors worldwide will participate from but what is really important to me is really like sometimes it's just the pure joy of having a beautiful card looking at it and you just want to keep it it's as simple as that sometimes what are you seeing what are you seeing with collectors in europe in terms of interest and demand obviously i would imagine just like everywhere else like pokemon tcgs whole beast and it continues to grow but and when i think of europe i think of soccer and i think of soccer card collecting which is becoming more mature here in the us obviously with the world cup maybe a little bit of a sore subject so i don't wanna bring up the world cup too much i'm i'm expect i'm i'm expecting maybe this evening i'll be on the sad side of things but i'm i'm curious like what are people collecting like what are you seeing where where where what has collector's interest can i ask you a question first so what do you think because so currently there's this there's a saying in europe right now which is with the world cup soccer to the moon in the us what do you think is that is that true is it not true i will say that ever since i have been back in the hobby and doing content there has always been a group of soccer card collectors that are very passionate but it it it it it when there has been interest like the investors have come in and then they've gone but i am starting to see real sustainability in soccer cards in the us and it might not necessarily be because of the obvious which is there's a world cup happening right now and the us and the united states are still playing which has captivated i i have never seen interest for just soccer like it is right now as we're having this conversation i think thirty three and a half million people watch the us last match so there's there's obviously like interest there which converts into collectors and collectability but i think what has been impressive to me has been there has been a lot of people educating and more than ever so whether it's new podcasts on soccer cards youtube channel on soccer cards and it's just long time collectors sharing their experience and it's not just the new stuff it's old sets history talking about different players to talking about their club talking about international cards and this is stuff i'm not a soccer card collector but i consume the content because i'm fascinated by it so i think that soccer cards are probably in the best place they have been here domestically in the us and i think i'm interested to see if that sustains on the other side of this world cup but yeah that's that's kinda my position on soccer fronts here yeah yeah yeah that's interesting yeah i'm always curious about what you guys in us think about soccer and soccer cards yeah the interesting piece is so usually what you do as a european or at least what i did when i went to the national it was always pretty amazing to see those endless cards of vintage baseball so this is something you never see or you don't see to such an extent at the european card show this is something which still still needs to evolve but for me it was always great then because around the national there's always folks organizing a soccer trade night which is at every night of the national and for us it was always like let's say our mecca to go there because you got great cards and great quality of cards at an acceptable price because at europe they have been way way higher so it was always like a dream come true to going to those trade nights yeah let's say it is it is everywhere so no one beats picacho so we are going to see a high volume of tcg which which is great because so what we are also currently seeing is one piece is growing and growing and i guess it's like everywhere in the world so tcg is is in europe let's say in terms of collecting cards very very dominant so and then you already said right so let's say the number one sport is obviously soccer so we are europeans we love our soccer even though it's currently being a german it's very tough a very tough time being a soccer fan so that was and my wife is croatian so they also went out in the first knockout stage so we haven't had a lot of parties lately regarding soccer so that's why we're going to see a lot of soccer cards but equally important you're going to see nba and nfl it's also there's a huge collecting community for those cards as well baseball is growing so it it used to be next to nothing but it's getting more important and you see a lot of baseball cards ohtani is also a chase card here in in in europe as well and what what has also been very very interesting in in in europe and collectors are really passionate about is darts so not sure if you have seen those crazy videos where they all go dressed up in the alley alley and this has also transitioned into cards so those boxes of of dart cards are also being sold out in seconds like all the other ones so and this is going to be very interesting so i'm really curious in terms of seeing what cards we are going to get submitted and then let's see whatever comes out of the archives of european collectors i i'm i i have to ask you about nfl football card collecting and just get some understanding my team is the colts the colts actually played in frankfurt last year it was the last probably good moment of the season season for us which it was a great it was a great moment mhmm i wish i could have been there but i was cheering on from abroad you know we we see our sport you know becoming more global each and every year and more games in europe and it continues to grow and i i find it exciting i love the global expansion and we we watch at home and we see all of the jerseys and the crowds and these stadiums are filled up but i think i don't know i've just never outside of you know one off conversations with european collectors or australian collectors i've never really gotten a good gauge on just like the level of fandom and interest that turns into collecting football cards maybe like share some perspective on what you've seen just in terms of like the maturity of the probably definitely a soccer fan but now has interest in football and takes that interest and starts buying cards like what are you seeing yeah it's a so we have a huge fan base especially for nfl as well so nfl and nba so they have been collected since many many years and i guess with the those games getting more global and you've seen that so whenever the nfl announces a european game so those cards are so the tickets are sold out in seconds and you could sell those arenas by ten twenty times and there would still be enough demand to fill up another five stadiums in in in terms of capacity and i guess this is also then driving the demand for cards and for collectors and i guess so especially the nfl is doing a great job in terms of making the nfl more accessible for for european fans as well because the so the sunday games are easy to watch for europeans as well because they are being broadcasted at an acceptable time not sure what that ever means for fans in the us so but they are doing a great job in terms of making the game the games more accessible and then also bringing the experience over to europe and european fans are really passionate about the nfl and then now we have seen the first season game in berlin from the nba as well and germans went crazy about it so the the game in berlin and then also with the wagner brothers so that was the perfect game being played in in in berlin so that's why yeah those leagues are becoming more global so they want to grow they want to grow their viewership and everything and they are very well established in the us so it's a good way in terms of them making getting more viewers getting more fans and this also translate into the in in into the card market but like i said in terms of collecting nba and nfl let's say are very close in terms of soccer so it's not like soccer is the number one spot and nobody's really near that so i would say nba and nfl are also very very close in terms of collecting to soccer that's awesome i had to get that insight because that's been something i've been curious about maybe matthias says we're kind of rounding the corner on this chat i'd be interested in kind of what what does success look like for psa europe like where obviously like you're just getting started although it might not feel like you've just been getting started as you've been kinda in your role building for quite some time but like what what success look like for you in this launch on the other side of it oh there are certain aspects to it to it so we want to build let's say psa in europe and customers should not see any difference in terms of service and quality and trust they can put into psa so there should be no difference so like i said we don't want to reinvent the wheel other than that so we want to be part of that community so that was one of my really eye openers because as a european collector so you see psa so and you cannot you cannot really relate it to certain people there were a couple of shows we so psa always attended the london car show and and le gala in in in paris and those were events once a year so but we want to be part of the community compared to the yes because those guys so they are they are folks everyone knows them everybody loves them in the us they gave each other high fives they know each other for decades so this is also a similar thing we want to build here so we want to build the trust so that everybody knows say when i'm going to a show and i'm going to see x y and zed and i trust that person other than that so we want to build enough capacity to cope with the demand which we are going to face and yeah let's say in twelve months from now if we can check those three things especially in terms of capacity because you don't want to give someone a high five and you you need to wait a pretty long time for your cards so that's why we want to build something which satisfies the needs of european collectors across the board that's awesome i think i've definitely got more insight knowledge on the global card market in psa europe specifically from this chat which is great and i think the audience will appreciate some of these nuggets that we don't normally get maybe as we close this out what gives you the most confidence in the future of collecting right now kind of a big broad question but i'd love to kinda gather some perspective for you at for on that as we close this out what gives me confidence in the future of collecting i guess it is in the human dna that you want to want to collect something and you you want to keep something and what also gives me a lot of hope and now speaking for europe is seeing a lot of kids with the same passion which my son had which i had which i see all around for collecting cards and i guess this gives me yeah let's say a cute view in terms of that the hobby will still be very healthy and very vital in going into the future and let's say more and more companies especially us based companies focusing on europe and seeing the potential there in europe also gives me a good perspective that we are going to see bigger and better to come in the hobby everywhere but also for europe and then i i i lied one more just to give you an opportunity for anyone globally or people in europe collectors in europe who are listening may who don't know the timelines any updates in terms of timelines submission when collectors can start sending their cards that you wanna leave us with yeah like i said so next week is a big date for us because we are accepting the first submissions from our european dealers so this is let's say the first major milestone then a couple of weeks later we are going to start grading on the ground so all the us graders have relocated also the whole team from the us has been relocated we are close to finish the training for our new hires on the ground and then we are going to start mid of august with the first in europe graded cards so those are the two big milestones ahead i cannot be very specific because we need to see then the volume what we do get from our dealers and partners and then once we have a better picture in terms of what we are going to see we want to launch we want to go from soft launch to public launch which means everyone can submit and we are going to focus on european customers first and then we'll see what the volume is looking like and then we might extend it to say non eu countries as well because for example switzerland norway are non eu countries so we might open up as well and then like i said end of this year london which is also a huge milestone for us we are going to open up our office they are making it easier for our uk customers to submit their cards so those are the major milestones best of luck opening up the floodgates looking forward to having this conversation again down the road matthias appreciate the time if your listeners don't complain about the heavy german accent i'm always happy to be back brett you did great thanks a lot yeah thank you