This is gonna be fun.

I am joined once again by Katelyn at Cold Lunch Cards. We were chatting in the DMs a while ago and thought it might be fun to do an episode around the tournament time to talk about, women's basketball cards, collecting.

Ever since I have known Katelyn, she has been creating a whole process around the tournament, buying collegiate cards, selling collegiate cards, collecting collegiate cards, and I thought it would be fun and timely to discuss her process.

And we'll get into a whole bunch of other topics, around, WNBA women's basketball as we typically do.

But, Katelyn, welcome. How are you doing? I'm doing well, Brett. Thanks so much for having me back on the podcast. I can't believe I I get to say I'm a repeat guest on here.

That's super exciting. And I I gotta shout out to Stacking Slabs brand and let's go merch. Everybody check it out, and I I love the play that you did on the fever logo there. It looks great.

So women's basketball on top for sure. Yeah. Shout out, shout out, Graham, Gramazing, wrestling card wizard. If you like some of, like, the artwork designs and what's going on there, go give him a shout. He's doing great work.

Gotta plug him. Let's maybe start, let's just start generally. Like, I know you're in it. Right? You're a fan. You're following. You're watching. You're, you know, consuming yourself with as much women's basketball as humanly possible.

But let's just talk about, like, where we're at before we talk about cards with, the interests. And I would love too to maybe talk about unrivaled because I am, like, a unrivaled DJ.

I absolutely love unrivaled. So, yeah, just, like, from the top, like, what what's your perspective on maybe where women's basketball is and just popularity right now in comparison to, like, a year or maybe two years ago?

Right. Right. That's a great great place to start. I mean, I guess I'll I'll begin by saying that, I was a very amateur basketball player growing up in in the women's basketball scene. You could call me a a JV MVP, perhaps.

That was where I really shined was in the JV leagues. So I've been in women's basketball and in that culture my entire life, and in the past couple years have been really exciting for the landscape of women's basketball.

I think, what got me interested in in the women's basketball card market, I mean, who's who's gonna deny Caitlin Clark? We got to bring her up right away, of course, but, she really reintroduced me into into women's basketball.

I had been following before obviously on the greats, I've watched the WNBA, for a long time, but really started attending games, buying WNBA League Pass, watching Unrivaled on HBO this season, the past couple years.

So I've been I've been in it, but really deep here, I'd say, the past couple years for sure.

So what let's talk about I wanna just maybe spend a little bit more time just in case people missed out on the missed out on it and didn't really pay attention to it.

I wanna talk a little bit more about unrivaled, but let's hit right now just, WNBA free agency.

I mean, it was absolutely insane. Like, it was musical chairs, like, movement everywhere. I'm, like, still trying to get adjusted to where everyone is at now.

Like, what was your read on this, kind of free agency period for the WNBA? Yeah. I mean, your club got a lot of mix ups and changes and a lot of good improvements. My Minnesota Lynx per usual, not doing too much.

We haven't had any big signings or losses, off the top of my head at least. And so it's not been exciting from my fan perspective of the, of the links, but watching big players go to different teams is always exciting.

I think it's something very unique, to the WNBA as is the movement and the the uniqueness I suppose of free agency is that it seems like every single year, there's another star that's changing teams.

I think the one that that I liked the most was AT and Alyssa Thomas to the Mercury.

I thought that was exciting, obviously they're they're trying to figure out a new a new way forward without the go DT without Diana Taurasi, I'm excited to watch that team and then from the Mercury BG, Brittney Griner actually went to the dream So that those were the two that really stuck out to me, but I know your fever, got a lot of great players as well.

Yeah. We're we're still, we're still trying to wrap our head around everything.

It seems like every other week they're doing the, new player comes in, goes to the locker room, sees their jersey, does the press junket here, which is fun. And I don't know. For me, it's like Caitlin Clark is so important.

And to to to make those changes of new coach, new front office, basically, new team in a one year stretch shows, the organization's, investment in her, which I think, this town right now here and I'm sure people who are in Iowa get this too.

But once she's, like, in your spot, it's like you wanna do whatever you can to protect her and have her be there for eternity because of just so much how so much change has happened.

So I think that's just been a positive note, as a fan just to see, like, the investment not only in her in the city, but just, like, surrounding her with veteran pieces, more established, you know, coach, and that sort of thing.

So that's been fun, for me, but I agree.

Like, the movement across the league, I think, if you're you haven't been paying attention, it's a good time to start paying attention because it's gonna be trying to form chemistry, I think, out of the game, which makes for an exciting product.

For sure. And I think I mean, you mentioned two words that stuck out to me there, investment and, and what was the last one you just said?

I just blanked completely. But you said an investment in chemistry. That's what it was. And I think two things that are building that is the new three on three unrivaled league of Nafissa Collier and Brianna Stewart.

I think unrivaled really is driving that success. You can see that I think, they're getting paid over $200,000 for their for their time with unrivaled, which, you know, Caitlin Clark's rookie contract is about 75,000.

So you can see that hopefully that that increase in salary, that increased buzz, that increased chemistry between those players is gonna carry over into the league.

So I've really enjoyed watching that. I'm particularly excited about the fact that my lunar owls have, Courtney Williams and Nafissa Collier on the same team.

So point guard and the best player on the team getting some extra reps in on the off season, I'm, like, super stoked to see that, carry over for sure.

Hootie hoo. Right? Oh, hootie hoo. I feel like they're the best team. They've just dominated, lost one game. I'll be I'll be stunned if they don't bring home the trophy.

But, you know, just as, like, someone getting diving, I've commented on this, and I would love your reaction where it's following kind of like a startup league and it being year one.

And I don't know if it's, like, Nafissa Collier's, like, fingerprints on it and actual being an actual star right now in the WNBA and trying to orchestrate this new league, but, like, it has been lights out.

It's been different. It the way they've covered the league, the way they've covered the players is refreshing.

And I I have thought so many times, I'm like, man, the w should take notes about this coverage because it it really reminds me not only is the product exciting, but just like the content.

It's got that, like, drive to survive f one, like, documentary style, which I know, brought so many collectors into f one.

But you're, like, learning about the personalities of these players, and you're getting to know them. And so, like, there are players that I have watched in this league that, like, I didn't know anything about, and now I do know.

And I just think, like, as sports fans, we're in this mode right now where it's like, the more we can get to understand the person behind the player, the likelihood that we're going to spend money, the likelihood that we're going to start buying cards, going to games, that sort of thing.

Oh, for sure. And I think, like, even the names of Nafissa Collier, not everybody might be familiar with her game. You should be.

She's a top front runner for MVP every year that she's in the league, but learning more about how passionate she is off the court about, you know, childcare and providing childcare for all these women that have kids and play in unrivaled in the WNBA, Those are things that aren't necessarily flushed out yet, and they're trying to carry those good things over to to the league.

So I'm super excited about that, and I'm super excited about the newly announced licensing deal that unrivaled has. I heard on the broadcast they said, something about hopefully some sports cards, some trading cards coming up.

I would love to own some Lunar Owls, cards for sure. I think I think it's just indicative of the growing popularity of women's basketball in women's sports in general. So I'm a big fan of unrivaled. Anything that Fi touches, I'm a fan.

I I knew her greatness through you and watching her casually on league pass, but being so focused and watching unrivaled, like, although she's owner, clear on the one on one tournament, like, one v one tournament, clearly the MVP of the league, like, I don't know.

Like, my appreciation for her through this has it's through the roof. So I get what I guess what I'm saying is I get where you've been coming from, Katelyn. Right. Right. You're catching on. You're catching on.

So before we dive into, like, college college collecting, we I feel like we just gotta hit, like, this thread about, the how the card market reacts to, like, rising stars and this, like, collision course we're seeing right now in women's basketball cards, WNBA cards, investors, collectors.

Like, it was not like this this time last year.

And, obviously, I think, you know, the addition of Caitlin Clark and these products like Select and now Prism has I mean, we're see I'm seeing more accounts talk about WNBA cards, mostly because of Caitlin Clark, but maybe, like, talk about what you've seen in terms of, like, more coverage, more accounts, more content regarding the kinda current market of, WNBA cards right now.

Yeah. I love it. It's, it's certainly not been like this forever. I felt like, kind of a big fish in a little sea, the last couple years, and that's not to say I had a bunch of valuable cards.

I was just one of one of a very few select people that were posting, collecting, flipping, whatever you wanna call it, women's hoops. And so I'm I'm super excited to see these huge sales, although I can't afford them.

I mean, the Caitlin Clark numbers are extraordinary, she's she's out doing WEMB, which, you know, I think that was the quote unquote test that people were were waiting to see what was going to happen, but, the release of Prism and Select and these new products as well is really driving those numbers up and I don't know, the more the merrier.

I'm of the belief that if you're interested in women's in women's hoops whether that's college or professional or you know, we've even got McDonald's products now where you can you can prospect some of those high schoolers, I think it's great and I'm really excited to see players who, you know, big fish, big whales I suppose, start to dabble in in in women's basketball and hopefully that doesn't just happen for one name of Caitlin Clark, You've seen some bigger sales with Angel Reese.

You've seen huge agent Wilson sales, although she's still completely, undervalued.

And, I'm just excited to see the numbers keep going up, and, hopefully, there'll still be opportunities for collectors to capitalize on a on a growing niche market.

I I want to get your perspective on some of what you just said. Maybe go a level deeper, on, like, what you've seen.

And what I like to do a lot is just observe in these emerging categories. I like to at more established categories over the last, like, you know, three to five years seeing what's happening, where trends, where things have changed.

And one of the the most, like, evident thing for me right now with, women's hoops cards is, obviously, there's more interest.

But the interest is really focused in on Caitlin Clark, then Angel Reese, and that that rookie group, which is a rookie group.

A lot of fun players, a lot of exciting players. But then I look at, like, card letter, look at the sales history, and I'll see, players like Asia Wilson, Nafeesha Collier, you name it.

There's so many great players. And I would say, like, maybe Sabrina is an exception to this because I feel like she would maybe be more grouped towards based on prices, more grouped towards some of the rookies.

But it it just it blows my mind that, like, these the best players in the league are, selling for a percentage of some of these, you know, young, younger, un more unproven players.

Like, to me, I see that, and that screams opportunity. But I I would love, like like, what's your perspective on that? I think you touched on it a little bit.

Maybe talk about that a little further. Yeah. I mean, I think it presents a really good opportunity for people like me who, like, I look at players. My favorite players aren't necessarily the rookies. I love the rookies.

There's a few that I've got my eye on for these releases, but I'm I'm I'm really focusing in on buying veteran player cards and identifying the sets that I think are gonna hold, long term value and I think that I think that's something interesting is this idea, I know you mentioned a lot in your pod but there's sets that you associate with certain players, right?

Nineteen fifty two Mantle, twenty seventeen Prizm Patrick Mahomes, twenty eighteen Prizm, Luka Doncic, 2020 Prizm, you could say Sabrina, I think 2024 is gonna be Caitlin Clark, and I think that people are gonna find the that set desirable.

And so I've been finding a lot of, cheap I mean, cheap objectively, veteran golds, mosaics, cherry blossoms, etc. From the 2024 set of my favorite players and buying those up because it's just too good to be true.

I mean I bought a Tiffany Hayes, which if you aren't familiar, she's awesome, she's not only a good player but she's she's a vet, she has an incredible social media presence which I think is very important, in women's sports especially.

I bought a Prism Gold of hers out of 10 for $30. I mean, that's a no brainer for me.

Another thing is, I think like the the Nafissa Collier part of my collection is becoming increasingly more difficult to expand because these price increases are flowing over to those to those big players, just not at the same rate that you see for the rookies, so I think there's a lot of opportunity to capitalize on this rookie class, this set, but also look back at the history of women's basketball cards and hopefully pick up some hidden gems that in twenty years, I think are gonna be staples for any collector.

I have been trying to show myself some restraint when anything pops up because I'll, like, look at the player in the card, and let's just say prism, and I'll and it's, like, under a hundred bucks.

And it's like, I literally could sit at my computer all day and buy cool WNBA Gold Prism cards that pop up for under a hundred bucks that I'm like, I could I could just, like, get this graded and stash it in my collection for the next three years.

And, surely, by the time I'm ready to move this card, like, I'm going to make something off of it. Like, that's that's my that's my, like, belief system because stuff is so outrageously cheap right now.

But I think just like another, like, method too just for individuals, like, who are, like, maybe getting into this, it's like, you can just, like, go and just look at, like, MVP count, find MVP count, and just, like, start analyzing, like, accolades and then pair that with cards you see on platforms like eBay.

And that's when to me, I'm like, okay. This is, like, stupid. Like, I'm like, is anybody out there? Like, does anyone else see I know you say I'll DM you.

I'm like, do you see this? But it seems like there's just it's it's so early. That's like Okay. My message is, like, if you are interested at all, like, it just seems like now is a great time because it's still so early.

Oh, for sure. And you mentioned, like, looking at the stats. Right? I think, like, names that stand out, Jonquel Jones.

Like she's a league MVP, finals MVP, incredible basketball player, incredible person, and you can scoop her stuff for relatively cheap and look at Tina Charles, like that's a name that people aren't really familiar with and she dominates and has dominated for a long time, so I think there's a lot of those players that people just either are uneducated about or haven't seen, they haven't been given the media attention, and I think it's just- there's- it's only going up.

The media attention is only going up and those players are gonna get their flowers and, you know, their cards are gonna become more and more valuable, and it's not necessarily about making the most money or profiting the most, but it's about feeling sound and safe in your purchases.

And I think that the women's card market has been proven and is going to continue to be a good place to put your money if you're a collector.

So it's it I love how you touched on, like, the fact that it's just, like it doesn't need to be just, like, completely 100% focused on, like, money or making money, and that's why I wanna before we move over the collegiate stuff, I wanna ask you, like, I think, like, the way cards look, the way they make us feel is really important.

What you mentioned 2024 is gonna probably be an important year because of Caitlin Clark and it being a rookie. What talk to me about how you think about 2024 prism and the the design.

Like, how does it make you feel? Like, what's your reaction to it? Like, parallels, maybe do some commentary on the the current product. Yeah. So I currently only have one in hand. I have that Tiffany Hayes, gold prism.

I'm showing it on camera for anybody that's seeing it on video, but I've only seen one in person in my collection and I love the border, it really brings me back to, maybe more so like a decade ago of PRISM compared to the more recent, sets where it's a little it's a little more border heavy, which I do respect and I do like, so I'm a big fan of that.

I've got a cherry blossom coming in. I think I told you about that. I'm gonna test drive that, and, I feel like Katelyn's teaching the old guy, like, what's the new hot stuff.

I'm like, I don't even know what this is. Yeah. I I gotta try it out. I gotta see what all the hype's about. I think, you know, I'm a sucker for pink cards.

I think that'll be exciting to see how that looks. I've got the Lee of Boston coming in, so I'm really excited about this year's design. I think the photography on it was really good. There's some some great shots.

I mean, I think the, the Diana Taurasi in particular has Caitlin Clark kind of in the background, blurred out and I think that's- that's a little sneaky and something that you could definitely see as a passing the torch card, even though it's a Yvette card for DT appearance of Caitlin Clark never hurts the value of a card for sure, so I'm excited about this year of Prism.

It's definitely a top favorite of mine. I'm a 2018 Stan, as most people that follow me know, but there was no 2018 Prism for WNBA, so 2024 is definitely climbing the, the ladder for me.

I love it. Alright. Let's move over to, the the collegiate side of your collecting. Let's start here. Right? We've got a tournament coming up. There the there's been so many great games, just tuning in, watching.

What's your evaluation of the landscape once we come into or next week, I guess, as we enter the tournament time? Like, who are you watching? What should other people be watching? Like, what excites you right now?

Yeah. Every everything excites me. It's been an exciting regular season, and, we just completed championship week, for the big championships to determine who's gonna make, the NCAA tournament, and, I I couldn't be more stoked.

I think, you know, obviously you have your blue bloods in, men's college hoops like, Duke, Kentucky, Yukon, I don't know, all throughout Gonzaga, it looks a little bit different in women's basketball.

I think that there's this doesn't necessarily follow the same formula, and so, I'm keeping my eye on the big names, obviously Paige Beckers and and UConn, Juju Watkins in USC, KiKi Rice, Lauren Betts on UCLA.

The list really goes on and on.

I mean, we'll throw in Notre Dame since we're on. Please. I was waiting for it. Texas is a super awesome team that I've been watching, although they kinda fell flat on their face this last game that they played.

But I'm I'm really oh, we've I completely forgot South Carolina. I mean, the the gold standard for women's basketball has appeared in 10 of the 11 last, SEC championship games. Just absolutely absurd.

Those are the names that I'm looking out for. I gotta shout out the team that I'm cheering for in this tournament this year. My team, the Minnesota Golden Gophers are not gonna make it sadly, so we're going with somebody else.

We're gonna go with, NC State. That's the team that I've kinda got my eye on. Sadly, I don't think many of their players have college basketball cards.

I think one of their players, Zillie Brooks, certainly is in, McDonald's Topps Chrome All American, but they've got a three headed monster of some top 10, picks in the WNBA draft that they're projected, so that's really who I'm keeping my eye on.

I might pick them in one of my brackets, but, if we're being smart, South Carolina. I mean, they're they're almost unbeatable on any given night.

Yeah. It's not fair. No. It's not fair. Let's maybe spend a second talking about, Paige Beckers. I feel like if anyone's listening and that isn't really tuned in, likely, they probably know who Paige Beckers is.

Maybe do a, like, cross, like, Becker's, Clark, maybe comparison in a way. Like, talk about because she you know, she's likely going to be the first overall pick of the draft, going to the wings, and she's had a remarkable career.

Obviously, gonna try to win a national championship this year. But maybe talk about her and her career, and then, like, I know you I I follow you, and I've been seeing you post your Paige Becker's card.

So maybe talk about, like, the crossover into collecting too. Sure. So I think, you know, we can start in high school, I suppose.

I'm based out of Minnesota, and Paige Becker's is from Minnesota, so there's a bit of a frenzy and a cult following over here of Paige, but coming out of high school I think Paige Beckers was actually ranked higher than Caitlin Clark.

She was I think the top rated prospect coming out of high school, obviously got recruited to UConn by Gino, which is, a great place to get recruited to, I think that Paige Becker is what makes her different is not what's on the court.

I mean, obviously she's an outstanding player, she won three Big East championship, like, player of the conference or whatever awards, just insane, has made deep runs in the NCAA tournament, but, hasn't hasn't claimed that championship, but I think what makes her different is her- her social media presence.

You look at her Instagram, her TikTok, her whatever you want to say and she seems to be the face of this up and coming class and I think that, you know, I think that's really important especially when, women's sports are growing and young women or young even young boys are looking up for role models.

Paige Becker is the face of that and so I think that her market has really capitalized off the Caitlin Clark hype and really taken it to a new level where she has this backed up kind of insurance of, well Caitlin Clark's cards did this much, so Paige Becker's has to be worth at least half that or whatever number you wanna throw out.

So I've found that she's definitely one of the most asked about, players when I'm looking to sell or buy cards.

Everybody wants to pay a piece of, page buckets and so I don't know, it's interesting, we'll see how the n I l deals go with her, leading over to the WNBA draft, and I agree. I think she is the clear number one pick, though.

Though your, Olivia Miles is right in Notre Dame, has given her a run for her money. Yes. Yes. She is. I I'd be stunned if, she Paige didn't go number one, but we'll see. We'll see what happens come draft time.

Let's let's talk about your prospecting or your approach because, like, most people are, like, gonna be turning tuning on their TVs and maybe watching women's college basketball for the first time next week.

But I feel like it's you you're collecting in the way you approach your collecting around it. It's like a year round thing. Like, you you've been on Page Beckers ever since we've been talking, and, I know you've just come this time.

You're you're you just you're fully loaded with cards that the market probably wants because they're seeing these players on TV, and they're excited about these players.

But maybe talk a little bit about just, like, your prospecting approach during this time and, like, maybe what got you started in that lane.

Oh, that's a big question. What got me started in the lane, we'll start there, is, I never was really collecting NBA cards.

Like, I never got into it. I respect the NBA. I think it's a great league. I'm a big fan of some of those players, but I didn't necessarily feel tied to a team or to a player. And so I was like, well, you know what I do feel tied to?

I feel tied to women's basketball. I feel tied to the Minnesota Lynx. I feel tied to, you know, the collegiate programs that have existed, you know, looking at UConn, looking at Tennessee.

I feel a sense of pride talking about those women's basketball teams. So I think that's what really got me into it, and then I started discovering, the new Bowman new Chrome.

I think that was the the catalyst, I suppose, for my collecting and my prospecting journey because they finally made licensed cards of these college athletes.

I think NIL really was that spark to make sure that happened, so that that's really what got me into it, and once I got there, I had to determine, you know, there's a sea of all these players from all different places.

How do I kind of hone in and figure out which ones I think are gonna either hold value or, you know, whatever your your kind of, mission is to collect them.

And so what I did is I just started watching. I mean, nobody can tell you, this is goes with any sport, nobody's gonna be able to just sell you a player.

You have to be able to watch them, understand their play style, see if they're gonna fit into the team, look at what kind of social media following they have, do they have that kind of cult like, following like Caitlin Clark and Paige Beckers and then decide which ones you like.

There's some unlikable players too. There's some billings to collect and that's awesome.

I think that's what makes it so good. So, when I look at prospecting, most of it is really based on performance. I look up at, you know, are they putting up thirty, forty, 50 point, games, which is happening now, which is crazy.

Is their team good? You know, it's it's good to be good on a bad team, but are you good in the best conference on the biggest stage with all the cameras and lights on?

And then, obviously, I mentioned we've talked about it before is the social media following.

Do they have people that look up to them, respect them, wanna be them? You know, you look into any crowd of these these college basketball games and there's a sign that says, I drove 3,000 miles to meet you.

I drove whatever amount of miles. That is huge. And I think that's what what people wanna spend their money on is their idols and their role models.

So, really trying to understand what the market likes, but also what the fans like because sometimes, those aren't necessarily the same thing. So the I wanna maybe spend some time on just, like, selection.

I think you, like, you identified, like, based on your formula of on the core, like, consumer interest or fan interest, social media presence, like, all those things, like, line up for Paige Beckers, and it's like, check, check, check, check.

Okay. I'm gonna go buy her cards. And you you enjoy, I'm sure, watching her as well. But we name we mentioned, Olivia Miles, which likely will be the second pick of the draft, plays for Notre Dame.

Like, she I I don't believe she has, like, a Bowman u card, which is wild. Like, she's gonna be, like, the probably the second player drafted.

So I think, like, that presents a a maybe an issue. Right? Not that she's, like, their Sports Illustrated stuff. There's there's cards you can get of her, but not, like, the Bowman stuff. So, like, I don't know.

Like, it it it it tells me that although it is great in IL and these players are being featured on a premium prod in a premium product like Bowman Bowman Yu, like, it it sucks the fact that, like, you literally can't get, like, all the best players.

So, like, how does that like, the the scarcity and the limitation of those player players cards like Olivia market Olivia Miles, how does that fit into, like, your process and how you approach the buying?

It's complicated. I'm kind of a licensed snob. I really do enjoy having those those team logos, those full jerseys, not just a big blank spot, right?

So it is difficult to reconcile that. I think Olivia Miles has some wif, if I'm not mistaken, cards, but those don't have the little Fighting Irish logo, and so, those Irish fans are less likely to feel inclined to put money into it.

So I am not buying a ton of unlicensed cards, and I think that's unfortunate because like you said, Olivia Miles is a top prospect, she's gonna be a baller, she's gonna show out in this tournament, there's no doubt about that, and I don't feel compelled to try to maximize that that showing, which is sad, but I think that, you know, hopefully with the growth that there'll be more more inclination from the manufacturers to have an expanded checklist.

I think an interesting thought is this fact that, you know, Bowman Euchrome and McDonald's All American are both co ed products. You can pull both men and women's players in the product. Perhaps they think about splitting that.

I don't know if that's something that I'm sure there are people are talking about it and thinking about it, but I think at some point, it becomes inevitable that you're you're either gonna have to make a really big checklist or you're gonna have to split because the talent just keeps growing.

And as the WNBA, the professional premier league, continues to expand and create more roster spots with added expansion teams, there's gonna be more players that need to need to appear on trading cards.

Right? I mean, I can buy a backup third time backup center for, like, the Browns, but I can't buy Olivia Miles. That doesn't make sense to me. So I think that, you know, the opportunity is there.

I think with the market performing so strong, those companies will be forced to react to that. But also at the same time, you know, then you start seeing this oversaturation of parallels, etcetera.

So it's give and take, and I'm excited to see where it goes. But I'm not necessarily the biggest, unlicensed stand, but that doesn't mean they aren't worth money because those Olivia Miles cards are doing numbers for sure.

I love this, like, topic here of, like, do you think based on the when you look at, 2021, '20 '2, '20 '3, '20 '4, like, what is it? Five years of WMBA Prism, which that exists, which isn't a ton.

You and you've got the, you've got the the Bowman Yu cards that are integrated with the general population, so there's only a limited selection of Mhmm. Players and parallels that you can get from there.

Do do you think, like, it would you rather continue to live in that world because that world presents rarity and scarcity of players, but limits maybe the availability of players like Miles and different option?

Or would you like it maybe expanded into dedicated sets or more offerings, however you might run into the fact that there might be an oversupply of stuff and the the values go down or stabilize.

Like, have you thought about that? This is a really painful would you rather. I I don't know if there's a a good solution to this. I'll always be on the side of rarity and scarcity.

I think that's the most important factor. And if we have to sacrifice some names not showing up in the checklist, that's something they have to live with. But I really hope I really, really hope that they can get some big, big names.

I think the next Bowman U Chrome release is slated to release right after the tournament, which is an interesting timing that they've chosen. But I think that hopefully that incorporates some big names, some more licensing.

I think Juju Watkins is going to have her first, Bowman and Chrome card in the USC Trojans uniform, which I think will be an interesting, I don't know, thought process and thought experiment to see how those perform versus her unlicensed Sierra Cannon or something like that, high school jersey cards.

So I I don't really wanna commit to the would you rather, but, rarity and scarcity always wins in my book. How do you think about, like, the first? Like, you look at Clark and Paige, and it's like the the, like, the Clark.

The like, I have owned both Clark's first and her follow-up Bowman Yu, and I, like, I got rid of the follow-up because I was like, I've got the first, and I don't really need that.

But, like, talk about what you've seen just in terms of, like, market value and interest in in those situations where a player might have two collegiate cards?

Right. I think first is king or queen or whatever you wanna say. I think I think first is by far the most, value retention possible. I think it really does signal that this is the first time we're seeing them appear officially.

Hopefully it coincides with their first year of college or first year of whatever, and I respect the first little emblem. I think it means a lot in the market.

With that being said, I've got my Caitlin Clark cards in my PC on on my table right now, and I'm looking at them. And, none of them none of them have the first logo. There are there are exceptions to the rule, I guess.

So I suppose it's not necessarily in line with what the market wants me to believe. However, most of these are from her first year, not from that second year. So it's really hard for me to pick one.

I don't think I don't think the the collectors wanna be put into a box. I don't think that a first should be everything. I don't think, you know, anybody that tells you anything that doesn't have a first isn't worth any money.

That's not true. But I I like the first for when I'm when I'm trying to make some money, when I'm trying to profit. I think those, the market likes the most, but, you know, do as I say, not as how I do, I guess.

So so let's talk about your, like, your your buying process and, like, what you I feel like you're very intentional and very good about, I am going to buy these cards, and I'm buying these cards to sell these cards because I'm trying to make money to help fund my personal collection, which is what we all aspire to do.

And I I feel like you're just very intentional about your your buying. So maybe talk about, like, we've got the tournament next week, but it's not like you're just going to eBay right now and buying cards to sell.

Like, this isn't something you've been doing for months. So maybe just share with everyone, like and and I want everyone listening to know, like, this doesn't just apply to, you know, win women's college basketball.

It can really apply to any anything, but maybe talk to us about just, like, how you've approached it leading up into the tournament.

For sure. Well, I remember I was on this podcast around a year ago or so talking about how it's not too late to get on the Caitlin Clark hype train.

Facts. So I just wanna say it's not too late to get on these other trains either. And I think that, you know, as the market grows, the opportunities are not going to be the window's not closing anytime soon, I suppose is my my thought.

However, the window's been open for quite a long time and so, on my Instagram page, I try to make little highlights that show the status of each card in my collection, whether that be it's in my Packers PC, my women's basketball PC, or if it's available for sale.

There's one special one that I have in there called holding and that's where I show what exactly I've been holding and when I went through that today I could see that I had cards in there for over a year.

I've been holding them for over a year and I've I've accumulated a box, I'm showing it on the screen, of well over a hundred cards that are all women's basketball that I've been buying throughout the past couple years.

Particularly, I've been buying before the regular season and during the regular season.

I've also bought some cards the last couple of weeks in preparation for March Madness, but I think that the time to capitalize is during and the unique thing about women's basketball is after the tournament, it still holds a lot of value.

Even if that team doesn't clinch that championship or clinch a final four, appearance, the WNBA draft follows up almost immediately after the March Madness tournament.

For those players that performed well, they're going straight into the draft type, there's no lull, there's nothing to be like okay well where'd everybody go, where are all the fans, no it's straight into the league and those players get a month of rest and they're back on the court playing against professional athletes, so I try to buy as early as possible but knowing that if you buy during the tournament that's not the worst place either because Paige Beckers is about to get drafted number one overall.

You know, she's gonna stunt in an outfit that's gonna do numbers on Instagram, and then she's gonna be on the court playing against Caitlin Clark. Like, it's going to be there's nonstop.

So I think that while it's important to recognize the market ebbs and flows throughout the season according to the schedule, that you know, this is a unique market where you can still buy when you're in one of those top parts.

So I think I think anytime is a good time to be investing in women's sports.

Oh my goodness. The the I was thinking about you talking through that example of, like, the fact that the tournament ends, and it's not like with so many other sports.

It's like there's this, like, down period. But in women's basketball, literally, these players go right into the WNBA.

And I can remember, like, myself, when, you know, the fever got the number one pick. It was like, alright. Now I'm ready to, like, spend some big money on a nice Caitlin Clark card.

And it was, like, instantly, she was here. So I think that's such an important call out. Maybe talk about the I I you do I feel like you do a really nice job of, like, making sure you're not, like, overextending yourself.

And to me, it's like a lot of what you're buying isn't like you know, it's not like hundreds or thousands of dollars, but it's, like, very affordable, like, plays that you're making. Mhmm.

Maybe it's because just the category in general is, a little bit underserved, but maybe talk about that just like you you're you're buying your how you feel comfortable buying, like, your price points and just, like, currently in that box, what you have, like, what kind of stuff is in there?

Yeah. So I'm an early career professional, and so I'm not necessarily in the in the place to be buying, five, six digit cards, although, you know, everybody's happy to do that.

I've been mostly focusing on the $10 to a hundred $50 range. I think that is really my sweet spot based on the people that are buying from me and I'm I'm buying from them.

I think that's a good place where you can capture, new new consumers or new buyers, new people that want to get their dip their feet in the water at that lower range and it also captures long time collectors who are looking to acquire special pieces for their collection and the nice thing about women's basketball cards is that $150 can get you a hell of a nice card.

You can get a really cool card for $150 so what I've been trying to do is to buy in that 10 to $150 range and I can tell you I bought for instance, a Paige Beckers, I'll just show it on camera, Paige Beckers numbered out of five.

Guys, I bought this for $70 and this is a March Madness card, this was after last year, I graded it and now it's a 10 and I haven't seen a sale of one of these in forever, it's definitely worth more than $70 Yeah.

I think that like it's just being smart with with the timing.

Obviously, we saw last year the market went crazy, but it's only gotten crazier. So those buys that I was making where people are like, you're spending a hundred dollars on a Paige Becker's card?

Well, now it it sounds silly to buy a card of Paige Becker's at a hundred dollars. That's cheap. Her autos are doing extraordinary amounts.

So I've just kind of been sitting on this box of mostly Bowman, but also dabbling in McDonald's, Topscrone All American, and trying to find those players that I think are gonna have a good performance.

They're charming. I think a big part of it is, you know, the stories of March Madness.

We remember for years the teams that have that kind of Cinderella story or the teams that, you know, defeated the odds and beat the South Carolinas or whatever it may be.

I think that finding those players in those kind of landmark sets is what I've been trying to do.

So I know I I'm hoping to find more, but, I my box is full. I told myself I wouldn't go past this box. It's nearing nearing the edges, so we're working on it.

The page you held up out of five that's a PSA 10, was that was that a TOPS NOW card? Yeah. So we haven't talked about it. So, like, maybe just what's your experience with TOPS NOW just in terms of, like, you know, buy, sell, trade?

Like, I'm curious. I I know nothing. I it it is a this is a I'm very interested in learning because I have I have looked, I have favorited, but I've never bought anything. I love them. I think that they're super cool.

I'm also in the minority of folks that loves a paper card and not a super shiny card. And if I'm if I think that, I'm sure there's other people that are, you know, thinking about it or at least entertaining that thought.

I've never bought the so how tops now works or Bowman now works is that you order them off of a website directly from the manufacturer at usually a bulk quantity.

So you can buy, like, a hundred of them at $3 a piece, and then you're kind of in this gambling mode where they're like, okay, you have a chance at getting the orange out of five, but not everybody gets the orange out of five.

You usually end up with some, some base, which base are good too, but, I've never bought them directly from the manufacturer.

I've always bought them on the resale market and I think they're great because they really capture a moment in time.

You know, that's why they're called Bauman Yu now or tops TOPS now, is because it assigns that player a spot, a game, an achievement, something that happened.

So I think that Caitlin Clark really elevated that because she broke, like, a thousand records in her collegiate career, right?

So that helped people wanted to collect the set of each record she broke and, the colors are cool, the photos are cool, and, I don't know, I really enjoyed collecting them, I think they're a cheaper price point to get in and to experience those players, and they also during the, like, their first years, even though they don't have that first logo, it would be considered a first or a rookie card for them.

So I've enjoyed collecting them. I have way too many, and I'll be selling them during March Madness for sure.

I wanna I wanna ask about your selling, but what you just said there, we're talking about her the college records, but I gotta shout this out because this is, like, burned into my brain as, like, one of the coolest advertisements ever, and we'll leave it to Nike because they're really good at that.

Just the Caitlin Clark billboard, is there a rookie record for breaking rookie records?

Like, it's like that that was like when I saw that, I was like, man, that advertisement couldn't be more on point. Oh, for sure. And I gotta I gotta show that I got the record breakers Caitlin Clark, in my box.

So, yeah, she did everything, but they just made a card that said record breakers. Doesn't even What I love about that one, it's like it it looks like it's so intentionally done to, like, mimic, like, the vintage look.

You know? Mhmm. And I think that's that's that's so cool. There's something different. You know? You don't have to fit into a box as a collector or a buyer, and those unique cards are are stuff that people like, and I like them.

So So let's let's let's hit the, like, sell. I wanna make sure we hit, like, the selling in your your mindset and process around I mean, you're gonna be watching all of these games.

Like, do you already have, like, a plan in place for that box of cards and what you're planning to get rid of and when you're planning? And, I guess, that's the first question.

Do you already have a process in place, or will it be more impulsive? And then number two, like, what's what's your method to selling? Like, platform, like, direct deals, like, talk to talk to us about how you're gonna make that happen.

I wish I could say I had this methodical plan, this master plan. I probably should since I've been planning this sale for now, like, two years.

But it's gonna be a little bit more impulsive. I think that I've got a roadmap to follow based on last year, which is, you know, to hopefully do it in pieces.

I think that that first round of March Madness is critical, hopefully none of these names that I've picked up get bounced, you know, it would not be great if a number 16 seed beat a number one seed for my cards, that would not be great.

I'm not cheering for that as a card collector, but I am cheering for that as a March Madness fan, but I think that, I don't know, the selling part of it is really interesting because I'm not trying to maximize as much profit as humanly possible.

I'm just gonna try to get fair market value for these because I'm into them for a good price, right?

And I think that's kind of the the mindset that people that are doing this little prospecting need to need to really get into because it's not about going above comps or setting new comps, it's about getting fair market value.

So I'm gonna try to do it in waves where I'll I'll sell some of my page the first round, to kind of cover myself in case something goes bad on their path to the championship, and then hopefully by the sweet 16, pages put up 40 in a game or 30 in a game and then, sell off a couple more and then hold those kind of like bigger cards or cards I believe in more toward till the championship and hopefully one of the players in this box is in that championship and wins the title, so it's kind of a an iterative approach that I'm taking similar to how I did last year to not only, decrease my liability and my exposure on how much I've invested in these cards, but also to give the opportunity to other people to make flips as well, so if I sell it to you in the first round and they end up going to the championship, great job, now we can all make money, which I think is good, but, your second part of the question was about where I sell them.

It's interesting, I don't necessarily have the best success of selling on Instagram, but I do have a lot of people on there so I try to do private deals on Instagram where if I know somebody's looking for a certain player or a certain type of card, I'll reach out to them on there.

EBay is king, I think.

I think eBay is one of the best places to go especially for big women's basketball, collectors because not all of them are on Instagram, not all of them are on these social media platforms, but most of them are on eBay so I'll check out those two lanes and then I got a shout out the discord, the discord, Brian's discord, I moderate and I think that that's one of my most successful places to to sell these cards.

We've got a whole channel dedicated to women's sports cards and hopefully a March Madness, channel will be created soon and I just sell them in there.

People pay me friends and family and try to move them to to other collectors and investors so that they can they can do whatever they want with them. I love it. A lot of, good information shared there.

Maybe, Katelyn, before we close this out, just with what you're doing, your process, your strategy, I don't know, like, what what what sort of advice would you give to anyone listening who's, you know, thinking about doing something similar, whether it's in women's basketball or a a category that they love?

I guess my my foundational piece of advice is to watch the sports that you're buying and selling. It's gonna be really easy to watch March Madness each year. Just download that March Madness app, and you'll be able to stream them all.

I think identifying players that stick out to you, is really important. If you're watching a game and you say, wow, that person is really interesting, they're moving a little different, look up what cards they have.

Maybe they're $5 maybe they're $50 but that could be an opportunity for you to kind of identify a player before the rest of the world sees them.

In terms of buying and selling, I would say just talk talk to people, as much as you can, use your connections.

I guarantee you know somebody that collects women's basketball cards or, they know somebody that collects women's basketball cards, so use your network to the best of your ability and and just keep those conversations going.

I think the under underlying comment that I wanna make is that women's women's sports in general are booming. It's time to invest.

It's time to give them their flowers and and hopefully this will be a good catalyst for anybody that wants to to enter the market that it's a good time. And I'm I'm happy to have you guys here, so come join and and hop on the train.

You can follow her at cold lunch cards. Katelyn, it's always a pleasure. Always have so much fun chatting with you. Everyone go check out our page. Can't wait to do this again. Thanks, Brett.