it's episode forty one yes it is coming off a money in the bank weekend raw and our minnesota vikings are not one not two not three but we are five and o going into the bi week how are we feeling about this adam i feel very very good about our defense i feel very very good that we are five and o i feel less so about our offense but they look better we had hockinson knocked out early and and addison was out we get jordan mason back we'll be almost wholly healthy after the bye week so hopefully darris saw it too yep darris saw back in the line so it's it's good so as as the vikings continue to win you'll continue to see us in our vikings gear and by the way adam and i are hanging out this coming thursday very excited to finally see your store after all all like almost a year has a year and a year plus yeah we've been here we opened up at june of twenty twenty five here yeah so it's been over a year you came to the old store you actually went to the other two so you get to complete the trifecta when you come here on thursday i feel like i get a do i get a badge of some sort do i get a certificate of a sure i'll i'll have my kid draw something up for you which kid do you want i'm expecting parker to have a full presentation for me when i join yeah yeah well yeah he'll probably join us for dinner on thursday so nice we'll we'll get to see him rip some super fractures multiple super fractures in the same pack nice so yeah money in the bank is now in the rearview mirror we had a very eventful monday night raw as well let's get into the opening of pyro here because i think like the the main thing that that i am trying to figure out here is like how to how to explain for for those of you who are are not you know really that engaged here with with the way that wwe plans their weekly tv i'm generally curious how how we're gonna be able to do this so we're gonna we're gonna walk through the results as best we can we're gonna do by popular request we'll do buy sell hold based on sort of the results from this week and then got a title match topic to close it out so let's just start at the the main sort of thing here we had two money in the bank winners i predicted one of them you were were kind of like on the fence about penta but i i called that one tiffany i don't think either of us were expecting tiffany stratton there liv morgan's champion again i mean like we can go through all of this and just talk about the level of shock but i wanna start with a really really good stuff first roman reigns and la knight started off this pay per view and i i've i'm shocked at how many great matches roman reigns has had in twenty twenty six he's been on tv a lot more he just proves he can get the best out of everyone or is it maybe that everyone just levels up when they're when they're trying to to to wrestle the tribal chief i mean la knight busted out a burning hammer in the middle of the match which i thought was absolutely insane but that match was absolutely absolutely insane but that match was absolutely tremendous everybody was expecting that i think roman was gonna win but i still saw a ton of complaining i'm like why isn't la knight champion well i think we're gonna see exactly why here but i'm curious what your thought was on the opening match and then we'll get into some of the other stuff i mean you knew it was gonna be a banger like you said roman brings out the best in everybody roman has not performed in a bad match in a very long time nope he could take some of the biggest botchers la knight's a pretty big botcher but i do like la knight as a wrestler i think he's great on the mic we knew what was gonna happen curious how they build upon this i think there's several ways they can go but way to kick off money in the bank way to set the tone for the rest of the night we knew once this match was on the docks for the first match there was gonna be no men's cash and rightfully you cannot take away anything but but a classic match between la knight and roman they've battled before but this one stood out like no other it was better than their first one it was oh a hundred percent they la knight must have got some pointers from roman on this one because this is awesome i think like listen this was the curtain jerk match you're not gonna job out your generational guy on a match in the opening match of a pay per view about ladders like i i'm sorry like that's not gonna happen and we have said or i have said i think ryan probably agrees that the person to take this belt off of roman is obafemi and the second sort of thing we'll talk about is sort of the good that happened with him and bronson reed but like i i don't see a reason for la knight to win this championship from roman reigns at the moment otherwise other than to placate a very vocal people very vocal people on the internet and i think although the crowd wants it that's exactly how you want the crowd to react you want the crowd to be in it for the challenger they were also in it for the otc and i think like from from the perspective that i had like i'm a huge roman reigns fan i'm a i i've never been a roman reigns fan up until the tribal chief ever since then i think he has probably orchestrated the best era of wrestling ever and i think it's it's just this year has been his like opus of amazing matches i really think that this la night match was a perfect example of how he can absolutely get something out of somebody who is not known for their in ring ability right yeah and i think this really showed a lot of people la knight finally got that match he finally got a match where all eyes were on him we got it years ago but this is a different level different time and that says a lot i mean let's look at somebody else kinda same person took a long time stone cold steve austin had to have those type of matches and that bret hart match was so legendary not saying this is anywhere near the level of that but what it took and everything else and then the crowd the fans wanted stone cold i know they're trying to get this for la knight and the clock is ticking on la knight for the age he's at and the peak that he's in i just don't think taking it from roman makes any sense at all because of the train trajectory we're on that train ride we're going to the crash of oba and roman that's what we want gonna be amazing it's gonna be amazing it's gonna be that type of match where it's gonna have they're building it up they're giving little snippets of it again we saw the post interview oba tribal chief yeah time's coming they're setting it up man it's again not to take away from la knight just you cannot have no offense ellie knight hasn't really proven himself to be on that type of level hall of fame esque level all time grace level you can't just have him strip that from roman on what the path is coming but there are other people now that say hey eli knight can be the main event guy he can be he he i know he's botched a lot he's huge reaction yeah all that stuff yeah that's those are the things you have to build upon to get to that point and now people are seeing he can do it so there is going to be a time i gotta think it's coming sooner than later just not with roman reigns yeah i think like like again i i don't know why sami zayn is champion i'm not a sami zayn hater in his role when he's not the champion me crown jewel saudi arabia it's already promoted for november i'm gonna get i'm gonna get there yeah we'll get there eventually but like i i think like somebody like la knight somebody like sami zayn some like these guys that are like true uncrowned champions in a lot of ways i like people are just saying just because you've been there forever you deserve a title that's not the way it works i mean roddy piper was never world champion right razor ramon was never world champion scott hall was never world champion like all these guys like million dollar man was only champion for like a day and he was because he purchased it from andre the giant or whatever like these are generational guys that are still remembered to this day they were never champion but they put on a show that people remember and i think like the title is a vehicle for people like roman reigns to either prove his dominance which he's done or elevate talent which is what he's going to do with with obafemi i have a feeling so let's put that aside because i think this the penta thing is is gonna be interesting and i'll get to that as we close out the the money in the bank sort of review here but they moved on from this match then into the women's ladder match and i think you and i were were sort of on the same page like this would be a great storytelling opportunity for them to put roxanne perez in a place where she could potentially influence the breakup of judgment day or at least give like some level of storyline credit to her and liv having this sort of eventual rivalry that didn't happen and like i think the choice was made because tiffany stratton of all those people in the match lash legend sol ruka lola vice all of them tiffany stratton was the only real established main eventer there and they have been looking for the female big show for a long time trying to get lash legend established she has personality but i just it doesn't click for me i think she's got she's a former wnba player so like she's very tall she's very buff and she looks great she looks like a million bucks but like she's just not quite there yet so then it was down to like roxy and tiffany stratton i think the crowd wanted roxy i think both of us predicted it but putting tiffany stratton in that briefcase is is literally tailor made for a feud with chelsea green we'll get i'm sure we'll get that in the coming weeks and months but there was a spot like that happened like middle of the the opening part of the match where tiffany stratton is on top of a ladder and does like a swanton sort of crossbody off the top and just completely lands flat on her back thankfully it was flat on her back and not on her head and i was just like my jaw dropped i was like is she is she gonna what what's gonna happen here like because she looked like it was about as painful as i could like i i get i hurt myself getting out of bed a couple of days ago like i can only imagine but she's going through it it could've been way worse thank god she was fine obviously you saw when she hit her head did hit it but after her body took the blow the women need to be probably another two feet up closer to catcher a and they always say when you jump off the top row or top of the ladder don't drop that way jump with the legs or where your the legs are kind of behind you so it holds it better even though you could see a rep holding it down there the way you did it the way it supports his kickoff kicked the ladder back yeah kinda kicked it back lost you know her footing away so thank god she was okay because if it got if something would have severely happened then you pivot obviously you have to pivot to somebody else so who is plan b now there are things coming out today or this week and it's just the internet saying that roxanne was last minute change she was supposed to win i don't believe that yeah i don't either the storyline made too much sense but you're a big tiffy supporter you like tiffy she's a i do vikings fan obviously she's from minnesota i deserving yes absolutely and somebody that they know that the outcome when when she does cash in she will carry the belt to the the highest she's done it before she has a long great career ahead of her until she decides to go start acting but i think everybody not just us was predicting roxanne perez because of where they could go with this and where it ended with the other women's match which we'll talk about makes no i have to have sense to me i don't know what's going on so for me to be kind of very predictable on matches i was very bad at picking this money in the bank entire ple so yeah i said i think we said on one of the earlier podcasts like tiffany is one of the only ones that could survive a failed cash in it's gotta happen at some point and like like that's the like now everybody's stopped talking about like whether or not this person's the champion in waiting they're just waiting for the first unsuccessful female cash in so i think like could you say oh tiffy holds the briefcase after crown jewel goes in and and cashes it yeah that's a pretty like they're only they're not gonna do both cash ins on crown jewel show i think that's dumb the other thing is so if if they're gonna cash in somebody on crown jewel fine it's happened before whatever but the other aspect is like maybe ria eventually comes back tiffy goes to cash in rhea stops that from happening i don't know but there's like they're they they could wanna turn her heel they might which i think is a better role for her i think she's better as a leader to be a heel yeah or or they again you go back to the failed cash in or they wanna make chelsea green look stronger and and better good where cash in it's a failed cash in against chelsea chelsea looks stronger than ever because she survived the match a and she survived the female cash in that could be a route they're looking to go i think that's great i wanna give chelsea what she deserves because mhmm and i hate using i i say this all the time i hate using the word deserves what her booking intends is probably going to say the crowds behind her they were chanting for her on monday night raw like they've been chanting for she was a humongous pop at summerslam like she's she's definitely does like deserves a a the crowd is telling wwe that she deserves this and i think more importantly like if they're really going to make her the crown jewel champion which i sincerely hope happens because she's kinda like this tweener champion or whatever the line was from monday night raw like giving her this crown jewel championship as meaningless as stupid as it is like i think is a good idea but i just don't like i don't get why liv is champion like none of this has ever been successful with her like ever and she's a four time champ now come on i i she's four time man but it's like she's not had anything of consequence happen in any of her title runs not all her fault by the way like it's not like i'm not purposely you know saying liv morgan sucks at what she does i'm saying i don't like liv morgan but she's also been the victim of some pretty terrible booking and they still don't seem to have a plan for her who is she going up against next after the this match at crown jewel like there's nothing prebuilt for her like i i don't know if they tell the story with her and roxy just because like that's what i'm saying like nothing about this title reign from liv morgan make should make anybody excited and i think everybody who was yelling about roxanne perez is now turning on liv online which is her her fans are insufferable online like the like the worst of the worst and like they they take sasha banks' fans and like make them look like you know angels in the outfield here but like anyways i think like when you're in that type of situation it's just weird it's weird that liv morgan is champion again stephanie vicair should have had some level of understanding here of like hey this isn't just let's put the belt on you because we were in chile like that that doesn't make any sense to me no hot shotting putting the belt on sami zayn because they're going to saudi right it's like we talked about this last week it's all about that it's all about that money it's all about is let's appease where we're going and and make pointless because first off stephanie no offense to becky stephanie should not have taken that pin like you no just built her up and becky is at the point of her career of being an all time great she could take that pin that's why you make it a triple threat match for somebody like her who is let's be honest on the you know closer to retiring than she is from starting stephanie's got a whole career ahead of her make stephanie stronger so now you just take it away from stephanie again i don't get it that i i mean stephanie that's what happened that shocked me more than tiffany winning that that was more of a shocker like where are we going from here guys like okay if roxanne wins and liv wins okay we got somewhere to go with this but we don't and now it's like we're back to square one belt's back on liv why do we take it off in the first place it's getting frustrating you know the hope is that there is a complete endgame that makes complete sense but right now i don't see it i i don't either and like this isn't gonna be us bitching about shit on money in the bank for for twenty minutes here but like because there's some really good stuff that happened on this pay per view and it was really entertaining i this match that that women's match is not because becky lost i i said last week i don't think becky's gonna win i didn't expect her to win i didn't want her to win i wanted stephanie to retain because she was just as shafted with her reign as liv was prior to that correct she like it's just it's not right and i think like you know giving stephanie finally some people that can hang with her in the ring becky and liv who are both really good wrestlers her and becky had no chemistry whatsoever and it was just bad but if like if that's the direction you wanna go then go that direction tell the story of stephanie as champion she can wrestle she can do it let the other people shine in the mic and everything else and she can just be that person that just puts on banger matches it she that women's division can have that men's not so much so anyways obafemi and bronson reed were were sort of in between those two matches and like can i say something first of all bronson reed is not as imposing now that he's lost some of this weight like is it weird that i miss fat bronson reed like that just doesn't look as impressive throwing him around like a bowling ball when he doesn't sort of look the way he used to good for him he looks awesome he looks like a a beast but next to obafemi big men look small oh yeah and it's just like it's just like without that extra weight it didn't seem like it was as even if it's as a matchup as it probably would have in the past am i wrong in saying that no not wrong at all it it definitely doesn't even look like same wrestler besides you see him in the face so it just yes bronson reed when he was bigger was more of a felt more of a threat but yeah still don't take away from the fact that the guy can go in the ring yeah he they they put on a great match they made it they it didn't make it look like oba was weak or bronson was weak it was just kind of like a a it is what it was i didn't like that they hit him with the they hit oba with the brass knuckles they hit him with the tsunami and he still kicked out like like guys like it it gets to there needed to be a producer stepping in there saying maybe we don't do the the brass knucks and we just have them kick out of the tsunami but it was a great match oba booked strong i love i love watching the what they're doing with obafemi as long as he is dominant i'm just i i think he is the total package and we'll talk about that as part of our title match topic here but i i the this vision thing man like raw has become faction city and we've got a new member of nine four six here that we'll cover in a second but what it well like at some point the raw just feels like it's segment after segment after segment after segment of factions and i just i i know we're coming up to war games they gotta build this up but that just feels weird to me yeah it's it's getting overly done maybe throw a few more on smackdown maybe but maybe they want them on roll i don't know be more interesting i i don't know but let's be honest i'm not none of these factions do it for me i don't i think you're in the same boat i think judge of a day's run its course the vision's curse and then nine four six i i think like nine four six i think they're doing good stuff with nine four six i do but i don't like the fact again i don't wanna can i jump by and talk about raw real quick about carmelo i don't like the fact that i i've loved carmelo and and i need to see i've been such a carmelo i've enjoyed watching him wrestle now i feel like he's just a little man in the group and i feel like they made him look weaker per se by joining unless his endgame is to infiltrate you know get in there and become the guy i would i i just don't like that role for him and i i guess he's the finn balor role of kind of like finn balor is like a a smaller guy he's not the leader of the judgment day well he is but not like dominic mysterio was always really the focal point yeah it it i don't know because he's kind of the vet in the group and he's kind of i don't know it just it just i guess i didn't see that coming so i'll give him that kudos to that but i guess we're a full faction now so i i mean i don't dislike it it's still early to build upon it they're dominant right now let's see how this plays out in the next six months more or less it's kinda where i'm at on them yeah so then let's move on to the the money in the bank for the men there were like i i i'm gonna highlight javonne evans because whether you want it like whether you talk about it's a real roof to that ambulance or not it doesn't matter you saw him fly through the air like the guy took a humongous bump going through that roof yes regardless if it was plywood or not like what an absolutely insane spot and kudos to him for landing it and not killing himself because there was a lot of room for error on that and god that was scary watching him do that bron breaker i think was the mvp likely of that match but like it was just because he was involved in all these big spots but man that that jevon evans thing is gonna be played on tv for a long long time how do you think they practice that do they just have something else set to where he went into because you're not gonna that's a one take to go through that room i mean like but you probably gonna practice like i guess the trajectory of the the distance or whatever i mean onto maybe some padding because like jeez i mean you can always i'm sure there was padding in the ambulance oh so you do know is probably how it is probably everything oh yeah of course yeah yeah but you get one shot you're not gonna take a bunch of practices to a bunch of roofs regardless so so i would guess the opening in the roof was a lot bigger than it looked on camera that's number one number two is i think they probably just did the spot without the the plywood on top and made sure that he could get there but yeah i mean like sometimes you just do it and hope it works out he hit his arm pretty hard so when he came out on a sling in monday night like that wasn't surprising to me i'm sure he banged up his elbow pretty bad but yeah it looked pretty clean it looked like he went through it pretty clean like what a spot yep but penta winning this opens up a couple of things i don't think i was ever off once penta and roman did what they did i i i was pretty dead set that he was gonna be the guy so there's two things i've seen discussed online one is that he just waits it out so oba because now we're into october of next year before that this is likely gonna happen again so you can literally wait through wrestlemania plus summerslam and a couple of and and hold the briefcase there for that long is it possible that penta just does eventually cash in on the world heavyweight championship it's just not for a while yeah i i think there's a lot of marketing to go with the briefcase and what they could do to sell a and i think there's just doesn't need to be a rush on this i think they wanna wait for the right time and and there's just no point you you have a year like pinta's gonna do what pinta does this is the perfect setup for the the face guy to get it and i know you were you were all about pinta to get it i was more about bron breakker getting in pinta is closer to the opportunity than breakers obviously they brought pinta for a reason there's a lot of future with pinta in that sense but the bron breakker's got a bright future let's be honest he's gonna be a dominant heel for a long time so yeah milk this out don't don't rush this find the right opportunity i i think there's more storytelling after sami zayn drops the belt when he does because there ain't no way that guy's gonna keep that belt at the end of the year i i would love to see penta on smackdown the problem is there's a ton of people on smackdown right now in the men's title scene and you got randy orton you got cody rhodes you've got potentially a returning drew mcintyre you've got like all these guys like do you really wanna insert penta into that or do you start building appeals and put penta in as the the champion a long term champion as a face i am an old school guy in the fact that i don't like them hotshotting titles like i don't like the world titles to be hotshot i like when there's like a sustained run of somebody that that has that that power to keep captivate people and i think penta could be that guy for sure but i think people like jovan who have obviously made a name for themselves he took a massive spear on rod even though he was bandaged up is it wrong that i would say like i think carmelo hayes is a more complete javon evans than javon evans is like i think javon evans is still super young raw on the mic like not great like his his personality isn't quite there with his athletic ability yet where i think carmelo hayes has the athletic ability the mic skills the work skills like i'm just sad that they didn't have carmelo do the types of things that jovan has been doing and that's that's just my i i'm a big carmelo fan i think he's got like usually when somebody misses people say oh they they fumbled they fumbled like there's an obvious missing piece like carmelo i don't see that other than his height like it's just that's it yeah no i mean well think about jovanni you gotta get the kid crazy like twenty two so your body can heal a lot better yeah you do things like that when you get into your later twenties i don't know how carmelo is but no i've i i agree i mean i i think carmelo is much more complete especially on the mic he proved it in his runs in nxt his opportunities he's gotten since coming up to the main roster but now i'm just curious where they're gonna go with this he's obviously gonna be part of this group now so we'll see how this plays out great segment on raw with obafemi and paul heyman we don't need to really discuss it but i love when he grabbed the mic out of his hand and sort of threw it away but i think this whole nine four six thing is heading towards war games clearly with the bloodline and whatever great i don't like why do they have to have war games every year if it's not necessary but at least this time nine four six does feel like a threat i crown jewel is the stupidest pay per view of the year it's one of the stupidest ideas champion versus champion is not new but building these stupid belts around it the as stupid as they look like all it does is make one wrestler look weak it does not to me it does not make one look strong it just makes whoever lose a losing champion is all it does i don't i don't get it it it makes no sense to me so if centimeters punk was it's about this yeah the money is definitely if centimeters punk was still champion we would have gotten roman versus centimeters punk too i don't think that there is any reason to have that match after what they did at wrestlemania so maybe that's one of the reasons that they decided to make this change yeah it's gonna be roman is absolutely going to win this match and i hope that that allows potentially a cash in if they're gonna go that direction with penta cashing in on sammy if they decide there could could he go for the triple a mega championship that's something that's being talked about this could be an opportunity to go alright we are gonna anything else you wanna wrap up on money in the bank before we we've talked about thirty minutes on this we've gone a little long but any what else is new no i think we've established everything obviously it was still good money in the bank it was very i would say unpredictable on some things predictable on others but at the end of the day let's we're all here to watch the story i i loved it man i i watched the whole thing start to finish and i was not there was never a point in in that pay per view where i wasn't completely engaged it was great alright we had a question last week about buy sell hold we're gonna do a money in the bank edition of buy sell hold so we've talked a little bit about the the the the actual wrestling impact let's talk about the collecting impact of this i wanna start with roxanne perez because like you said she's one of the youngest competitors her and javonne evans are both very young where do you see are you a buy sell hold after money in the bank seeing that she is not the briefcase holder they're not ready to tell this story with her and live yet what's your what's your outcome here for for roxanne perez buy sell hold i'm disappointed but she's still a buy because she is young she's very talented oh and i e these little girls the sizes of liv morgan and alexa bliss have shown they could be women's champions and there is gonna be some storyline here to come to where roxanne elevates over liv morgan she's going to get this opportunity she will be world champion women's champion i predict in the next year still regardless if she has the the money in the bank or not there's gonna be that opportunity and it's probably gonna come in the hands of we could build a story line where liv puts it up towards her alexis we're gonna battle for the belt to see us whatever so she doesn't need the belt maybe that's why they didn't put the money in the make on her but i think roxanne is a complete buy i i'm likely a buy on roxanne as well i think i've compared her to the female rey mysterio just because of her size but i think she's better on the mic than liv morgan i think she's better in the ring than liv liv morgan i think she is one of the the better female talents that they have and she is very young has a huge career ahead of her her stuff is is expensive in the rare and desirable but the other stuff's pretty affordable very affordable very affordable yeah well go like easy to pick a pick up a few things get one of her autos for thirty forty bucks and stash it away like she's gonna get her time she's gonna get her time and she has some prism autos where she signs like her full name like every letter you can read it's great i love her cards love her her ring presence like she's she's definitely fun to watch and i i like i i wanna see what they do with her for sure another we we talked about young wrestlers we talked about javonne evans what's your status on buy sell hold for javonne evans the bouncy og i'm holding two of his super fracture description all is just because i like the kid i'm a fan but he's a tough one he's one where there's a fork in the road and there's many ways he could go they could set him up for success or throw him at the back of the line at some point i don't know i think we talked already about somebody like carmelo hayes they missed the boat on they use this kid in ladder matches and crazy matches like that is that what he's going to be i'd say hold a couple nice things of him but i'm probably more lean towards selling a lot of his other stuff just because he does have value for where he's ranked at as far as where he's at on tv and stuff like that he's already gonna sell for twenty twenty five thirty bucks for masick he's signing more stuff i think he's a better sell on that front but if you wanna hold a couple nice one on ones that's kinda what my take is on jevon i love his athletic ability don't get me wrong but i'm in between sell and hold on jevon for one very specific reason if you remember back i i can't remember if it was like right as the black and gold nxt was was ending up and and like ricochet was jevon evans great seller yep and all this other stuff and i i was a huge ricochet fan in nxt like i thought they they booked him perfectly because it was all about the matches but as soon as you put him in front of a crowd and have him cut promos he was as bad as anybody has ever been in wwe it exposed him so quickly and that segment with drew mcintyre is played on every like why is ricochet getting the attention he has because he can wrestle and he was in lucha underground he was in like all these different places just flying around the way jevon evans does but he had nothing else he had no charisma he had nothing else and he still doesn't i still look at him in aew as like the exact same person he has not grown at all and my worry is that javon evans is going to be forced into that mold where they've got him selling bouncing around taking huge spots like you said and they're not gonna allow him to develop into a character that can carry something i think his ceiling is likely the mid card title and he'll get there eventually ricochet did but i think that's probably where he he taps out from a collecting standpoint as much as i hate saying this people don't like minority wrestlers and from a collecting standpoint which is so sad and i think like i i i hate that that's the case because trick williams deserves more value like all these guys biggie deserved more value like all these guys deserved more value but they didn't get bringing big money there adam that i was i was gonna let me finish my statement i think i was gonna say oba is the one person is the one person that has really proven that wrong outside of like we can go to the rock and whatever but like i think it's really hard for minority wrestlers to gain a lot of collecting value rey mysterio you know the rock all those guys the samoan guys are are exceptions to that rule but historically like new day has never gotten much value in anything and they signed a ton and they've been important so i don't know i'm i'm in between sell and hold i'm definitely not a buy at this point one thing i wanna say about that what you said i i not everybody can be taught on the mic some people can yeah but remember a point when roman reigns was god awful awful on the mic and went to classes and but obviously changed his character too he finally bought into it and i think that's what changed more than anything yes he he got trained he got class whatever but man he had some brutal mic so i i oh yeah jevon evans does in the ring it cannot be taught that kid is just a natural you can tweak him if he really can do it it's it's just some people can't do it like you said ricochet still hasn't you know been able to grasp that but some people can't so there is hope if you look at we're talking about roman reigns consider one of the all time greats if not the go to many people was once historically bad watch the promo with john cena when john cena called him out he's like come on let's go don't forget your line again and just ripped on him i'm like wow but from where that roman is to the roman we have now the trouble chief holy crap night and day yeah and it comes with age and it comes with maturity yep but jovan evans doesn't have size neither does carmelo hayes which we'll get to here in a second neither did jeff hardy neither did jeff hardy and and and yeah correct jeff hardy exactly correct but two thousand and nine jeff hardy was the most known person on the plane outside of iraq it's nathan sisses jeff hardy is bigger than the barack obama was and no nine or something like that he's like jeff hardy give jeff hardy credit they i see a lot of similarities of what they do except the good stuff in the mic great comparison yeah so there you go if jeff hardy could do it when nobody thought jeff hardy would ever be anything more than a a tag team champion that man had a phenomenal career and was at one point one of the biggest wrestlers on the planet and i am never changing the channel when a javon evans match is on he's no no fun to watch he's fun to watch alright i'm gonna recuse myself from this where do you stand on liv morgan and like she's now a four time champion she's now a four time champion she she's been made like i mean she's reached a status you can't deny it anymore i i i'm just not gonna say anything i'm curious are you buy sell or hold on liv morgan i'll answer for adam you're you're we're a sell on liv morgan i think liv morgan's cards i mean let's be honest she's now dabbling a little bit she didn't do it some acting you gotta think at this point in her career who knows what she wants to do life after wrestling but if she's getting into hollywood esque there is that potential jump there but i'm not saying that she's a four time champion but it seems a little bit more artificial to get her to the number four right now so liv morgan's cards bring really really really good money compared to what it used to be which wasn't a lot of money i don't know if there's more of a peak to sell on her right now we know mommy is gotta be coming back at some point she's gotta be put right back in that opportunity but liv morgan's cards are bringing some of our autographs are bringing ria type money for basic autos it's kinda kinda weird to see that in my opinion now granted ria's out she's hurt but i know there's certain people who collect liv i i would rather put my money into lexa bliss any day of the year but i don't think there's no sell or or i'm sorry i don't think there's anything that should say to buy or hold her i think sell anything you can of her i i wanna say you're done so you weren't gonna say anything i know i'm i am i'm not gonna comment on buy sell hold but i used to say she was diet alexa bliss and i think that's basically she's literally having the same career as alexa bliss kind of yes kind of yes it's kinda weird like alexa never had a faction alexa was never part of that whole faction thing but alexa's a five time champion liv's a four time champion and i think alexa's career sort of was dictated by her pregnancy and her decision you know to to take time off there rightfully so respect that yeah respect that but i i don't know if liv is at that point in her life yet she might things could change for her in a in a anytime but i think like that's always the the like becky's gone through that alexa's gone through that i mean there's a lot of women wrestlers who go through bianca's going through that right now yep right that's naomi's going through i mean like literally when you reach this point in your life like people tend to make decisions like that and liv isn't there yet but i'm curious when that's gonna happen and she's been out for an extended period of time multiple times for injury and both times she's come back and and done well but i mean like i have not seen her title reigns be anywhere effective to where alexa's were becky's were even charlotte had better title runs and she's known for having terrible title runs like i just i don't see it man penta on the other hand is like really at the cusp of like he's about ready there from a collecting perspective like he's finally getting the attention mhmm i think that he had when he first came over to wwe pyro out of the briefcase i mean i that was just awesome that was odd yeah everybody's gonna want to buy that briefcase and when it doesn't shoot pyro everybody's gonna be wanting to the thing pyro not included which i thought was hilarious i so i'm gonna lead off on this one i am in between buy and hold on penta and here's why penta from the short term perspective until he cashes in i'm straight by but he's already high people were already baking in that he's gonna win this and that he's gonna cash in and be a champion so i think a lot of his value right now is already baking in that he's going to win so you're kind of coming in at the tail end that's why i'm only in buy and hold between buy and hold on him but i and he's a little bit older he's been on the indies in aew for years and years and years that's why i had the graphic in the early slides of him and chelsea green chelsea should have a restraining order against him just from their match that they had but what a bingo match it's a legend that was a good shot yeah yeah yeah so i think like i think penta is an incredible talent and he is and if you see what's happening with ray phoenix like it easily could have gone the other direction and i think penta really took advantage of sort of being the cool looking guy that he is because he's one of the most striking entrances and and just presentation so i'm in between buy and hold i'm gonna put my card shop owner head on here not my collector i i'm more of a sell on pinta i've been getting pinta cards out more lately because of the interest that's out there i'm one that's always like hey find me one really great car maybe in the description i'm gonna put that back to hold that's just what i've been focusing a little bit on the side but i think pinta's itself because if they for some reason make this a triple a cash in could really devalue his cards tremendously because you expect him to cash in on the one of the world champions or the you know the universe champion you just don't know at the time but his cards he's been around a long time he had cards in aw aw did not know how to use them clearly at all so here we are we're seeing numbers most of his autographs are you could buy i mean they're like sixty to a hundred bucks but to me it's like let's put this in perspective pint is great he looks awesome he he's over with the fans rey mysterio is an all time great nathan better you know thank me for saying this rey mysterio cards are grossly undervalued for who he is for the career than longevity he's had pitta is on a fraction of a trajectory of rey mysterio and again rey was getting tied multi time champion multi time champion a long time ago i think pitt is great but this could be a one time this could be a one time title reign with him this could be w two b cashing in on his hype cashing in on his reputation cashing in on the fandom with the fans their their kids love him this is could be just the ultimate hey we're gonna make pitt to this big thing even bigger for the next year and then life after that when damien priest won i knew that was a onetime deal i don't think we'll ever see damien priest win god that was he is older but again so too i'm not comp comparing pinto to them at all but i think this could be an all out marketing money grab again he is a talent he is an absolute talent rightfully deserves it showed it in that game that match against roman reigns but you gotta think here for a second we could be having this conversation a year ago remember when pinta was at the peak that's why i have to take my perception on this man that is spitting spitting bars here man that was great i love it alright buy sell hold now that you've seen penta get his briefcase watch now chelsea a buy sell hold on chelsea green curious where your thoughts are here man she's a weird one she okay her cards certain ones don't bring the level they should but some of her rare ones are starting to bring big big money i think it's run-in the mill stuff when she's got plenty of autos she's a great signer you need to be selling those but the question for chelsea is are we gonna make chelsea bigger than she is because she's been wrestling a long time she's deserved this and it's finally great to see it it's tragic that the injury that came right after she got it and clearly they weren't willing to pull it off of her because they believe in her it is her time to shine i think the biggest thing for chelsea would be what i predicted a failed cash in on her to be the first ever to ever hold and retain against a failed cashing against her friend tiffany stratton her market's different i i i don't know what they're gonna do is she just the question with chelsea is is she just a whole placeholder until rhea comes back or is there more after this is there more title reigns so i'm kind of a little different i think she's kind of more sell and hold the right stuff sell i mean maybe i don't know she's more to me a sell but i think there's potential to hold for the future i i think that chelsea sort of is operating in this no man's let no woman's land no man's land of like like she's she's this is an unprecedented situation there's never been like an interim champion before and i think like i like if you have rare and desirable stuff for her like holding it is not gonna be bad because you always have an out with matt cardona buying up her stuff bingo and so like that's where if if like because they're married and who knows where where that goes if he continues to collect her or if he continues to buy her stuff i don't know but her prices tend to reflect that matt is out there and good because like i like if if my wife was as successful in the ring as chelsea was and had cards i would be buying her cards too like that's that's part of being you know a fan of of your spouse and being you know that type of person and so that's great but to your point like i i don't know if there's like she's ever gonna be like a five time champ right so you can't buy her like she's gonna be a five time champ but like does that mean that her other stuff isn't gonna be valuable the rare and desirable stuff for a lot of these wrestlers is unavailable like you just can't buy it like people hold it so i i think i'm like now that she's champion if i'm not a collector of chelsea green stuff if i'm not a huge fan of chelsea green that she's my pc i'm probably selling just about everything because i don't think that there's gonna be another situation where she's gonna be the the person to carry the division but i love what she does in the ring i think she's one she's a great promo she's great at what she does i just don't see a lot of collecting futures where she's where you need to bake in an additional two x in value because she's won three more titles like i just i don't know one thing to to finish up that we were talking about earlier about wrestlers having children we've seen chelsea on on the shows oh yeah she clearly i mean they're married she's you gotta think after this time of rain it could be hey i'm ready to have a kid as you could tell just by the things you've seen on social media online she wants a kid just by from what we could see that has to go in the back of her head hey i've got the title let me run with this and after that it's like let me have start a family and that's what happens look at carmela and there's nothing wrong with that we're not saying that there's any of your that's not what i'm saying that could be what prevents her from having more yeah titles is because the like carmela sacrificed that she was she was very dominant in the years that she was winning titles great call she said i'm gonna keep having babies i some people and i respect i think it's awesome but that's the thing that happens to a woman over a male wrestler the woman has to make the ultimate sacrifice the guys can get the wife pregnant and keep going back at it like nothing you know i guess that's about so especially as a wrestler i like it i like it alright what about miss money in the bank tiffany two times tiffany stratton buy sell hold man tiff you wanna start why don't you start with this one because this is your girl you're you're obviously number two i love so i love tiffany stratton in the ring i think she's one of the best workers that wwe has right now i think her and io if i would love to just see like a a twenty five minute match of her and io sky just going at it her value is down significantly since she lost the title and rightfully so i mean like she she hasn't had a lot of focus they've kind of booked her fits and starts it's weird but i think she's an incredible talent in the ring i think she's kinda changing her i don't get where she's going her look her gimmick like she's i get michelle maybe trying to find it right now or trying to transform her i don't know weird michelle mccool vibes from her which i don't like and like you know it's just weird like i don't like it and like so i think like if she were to just stick with the barbie gimmick and be a heel like i would be much more bullish on her market i i think she's gonna be a multi time champion i think she i mean she's only like twenty five or twenty six or whatever and like she's so talented to match her her appearance being what it is which is always valuable for wwe collectors as much as i hate to say that and i think like you know she's she's great at what she does and i think like as long as that's the case you know there's at least some potential to cash in on down the road however collectors are very much what have you done for me lately now that she's got the briefcase and she's potentially gonna be a heel heels values never align to where the face values are usually save roman reigns and i think like that's that's gonna be or that's gonna be a a probably a a hurt for her so if you wanna sell because she's got the briefcase i i wouldn't i wouldn't put it back i've already gotten rid of most of my stuff just because i've had to buy other things and i can't keep a pc but like the like am i going out and hunting down tiffany stratton cards and now that she's money in the bank for a second time i can't say that i am yeah i'm selling her i remember the national in chicago from twenty five how extremely hot their cards were and i was there to sell everyone and how much they are significantly down obviously because they're signing more there's more products she's always in it she's never and her auto's gotten terrible her autograph went from from full tippy stratton to whatever this is in the corner over here the little was that tiff is that we're gonna go into so yeah i i think it's just one of those things where it's it's a little oversaturated it's out there and she's more readily available versus when she was younger there wasn't a lot out there i think her first signing you know versus when she was younger there wasn't a lot out there i think her first signing was twenty two she started signing some stuff but it's very limited i i think she's incredible wrestler i think she's got the look but i just don't think her cards are ever gonna get back up to here now that's her rare stuff the different anomaly we see some of her super rare stuff bring big money so i think that stuff's a little different but i think i i've been selling her since she got hot the first time when she was scorching hot a year and a half ago and now here we are again to where when are we getting the cash in i think hers is gonna be sooner rather than later it all depends on maybe hold with the women they never hold they don't they don't hold it and i think it's because they don't feel like hey if the woman either they just say we need to get this off the the belt off them to do something else this is a way to get around it so that could be why they're put on tiffany to either get it off chelsea or to have chelsea beat her if she cashes in have tiffany and rhea ever like really had like a a long drawn out feud i don't think so they they need to have something man i and again that's when rhea gets back that could be huge because those two those two in the ring would be something special to watch for sure yeah and collectors latch on to that type of stuff right and and and i think like yeah like her her inscriptions still sell for a bunch of money her cards still sell for a bunch of money but it's like when you it's like you buy the bowman first of the pros the baseball prospect when he's drafted and it comes out everybody's hyped you sell when they get called up it is not when they start hitting home runs or whatever it never reaches that peak of their call up on the bowman first like if you're in baseball and you're a baseball prospect you know exactly the story that i'm telling football little bit different basketball different wrestling is like you sell on their first title win and they never get back there and it's it's very very rare i mean we're talking exceptionally generationally rare roman rare yeah exactly yeah i mean we're talking potentially all time greats rare i mean this is tiffany's got a long career ahead of her if she likes to continue to stay a wrestler but yeah she's got to win several titles and she's gotta get over with the crowd like rhea ripley's over with everybody exactly alright last one we saw a few additions to this group over the last couple of weeks we saw jada parker and carmelo hayes added to nine four six let's start with i i'm not gonna do too long on royce keys because he doesn't have a lot of wwe cards yet he has some aew cards they're super cheap like dirt cheap and i'm curious what your thoughts are on them but i think that the two people i'm most curious about are jada parker first and carmelo hayes second i i'm out of all these groups there's only one person that i think is a buy and hold and that's carmelo hayes that's the only one i would be buying and holding i would be selling everybody else because jada parker is in every box you open on a good place it seems like just saying that yeah no i just don't see the other ones again this is too early to tell in the current future but we know what we get from carmelo hayes this could be the the the jump he needs this could be get him in this let's build him up at something where more eyes are on him to something bigger and better because we know he's got it he's the only one i think is worth buying and holding his cards are ungodly cheap his rare one zero one stuff is stupid cheap he is the only one out of this whole entire faction that i think is worth it i am a straight sell the first time that royce keys has wwe autographs which should be in stadium club maybe some it's it's an it's a it's a set that's gonna be coming very shortly the first you pull it and you sell it immediately yep because it will be as high as it has ever been and it will never be higher the other two i think at this point you don't have anything to lose on carmelo hayes if you're already in on it just hold like carmelo's a hold i maybe if you can find some cheap stuff that's ten and below maybe i'm a buy especially if it's cheap jada parker is a wild card her character the way that she's playing this character is dramatically different than what she was in nxt the whole miss parker gimmick i thought was weird in nxt she's such a good worker and she's great talent she's she can play whatever role they're putting her into her cards are very cheap right now and they're gonna if she gets a focus as a result of this group like there could be some gains to be had and i think yes she signs everything so she's been in crow multiple year like she's been everywhere it was not hard to find a picture of a card to put in this deck and like i think like she's really interesting there's like the she's a young like her tatum paxley and like all these other recent call ups blake monroe is really the only one that i'm just like what are they even doing with her but parker and paxley now a tag title holder like all these people are getting like major focus but blake monroe is not so i mean like that may speak to like hey she's in a main event faction even though she's not the main event she probably is going to be featured in main events as a result of who she's aligned with that could mean some good stuff for her cards and if they're cheap especially rare and desirable stuff and it's cheap i'm i'm i have no problem saying she's a buy there alright let's go through some sales that was fun i love doing buy sell yeah thanks for who who's suggesting suggestion yeah i forgot i have already we got so many questions last week yeah we haven't done that in a while thanks for giving us a reminder why we should hop on and do that yeah i mean especially for money in the bank like this is this is like there are two pay per views that really define sort of the the runway going forward one of them is royal rumble and one of them is money in the bank so it was good to do this let's get on to some big sales now as part of the high spots here i saw this card and it sort of like was like what i didn't real i didn't like why did this sell for five thousand dollars and i realized it was autograph this is the twenty twenty three select color wheel hulk hogan gem mint ten auto ten sold for five thousand dollars fixed price on ebay i think this is one of the times that the autograph actually does add something to it it looks pretty cool great photo great i i'm not a huge fan of the color wheels i think it's a stupid idea for an insert but this looks cool yeah i mean that's that's a big number it's probably gonna be one of the only ones out there i would assume especially with that dual grade right there you know so yeah i mean but what is technically one of a kind i mean if you're that big of a hogan collector you probably wanna get everything you can i mean i'm glad i acquired a and he's still alive but a stone cold kaboom signed card slab authentic oh that's cool i love that card i'm like keeping that i think i got there for like less than a thousand dollars a year ago i was like thank god i bought that yeah like if you can get like the so there's been people out there who have been getting panini case hits signed by the wrestlers and they look awesome i saw a color blast undertaker sign in like bright purple marker that looked like it was one of the coolest cards completed and they it was very well done the autograph is perfect because it's the undertaker and he has one of the best autographs in wrestling i think if you can do it right the the like the panini case it signed in specific marker types really do well it's when they sign one o ones in black is when it's like really weird but this one looks cool five thousand dollars big price for color wheel that usually is probably a two three hundred dollar card maybe i can't even remember at this point a couple of big roman reigns sales coming out of the panini redemption saga the one of one three count on card auto jumbo relics sold for four thousand fifty dollars that was via auction on ebay it what there were some challenging bids in there that were tough to see but i think a a legit account actually won it so the the original sort of ones have been manipulated a little bit this one had a some of that in there but this is an awesome card it's an actual like patch type relic in this card most of the relics are t shirts and stuff like that from the panini era this one actually looks like it's a patch which makes it look really cool and it's got a bunch of stuff it's one zero one on card can't beat it that's a really cool looking really cool looking example and then just before i let you react there's also a championship glory which is one of my favorite roman reigns that was included in this batch the gold originally sold in a completely shield and obliterated auction for like fifth twenty five hundred bucks another one now has sold for three thousand dollars via fixed price i'm hoping the person didn't base this sale on that original comp but it's an awesome oh it's such a good looking card the gold especially it just looks mint i have one of the golds actually that i get redeemed so you'll you'll see that one thursday i think it's in the box here but wait i get one thing i'll say about this one zero one yes i love the patch it's like stitching and everything it's like how patches should be good gosh i know he signed quick but this how many times did he come off this card three like one two three i think four four times in the window four times the window four times i get it's a short window and it was designed for a sticker but man as awesome as that card is again he's going third he's just trying to get these autographs done that would hurt me as a collector but the patch is sick but the other one i think these immaculate cards i'm not a i'm a holder on all of them all the ones i got in long term they all hit at once buy them right now because in a year from now they're gonna be dried up they're gonna be in collections and they're gonna keep going up year after year after year okay okay move on i'll no i agree with i didn't i didn't have anything to add for once it's time for another episode of star swatch mayhem so wait when did we ever talk about star swatches on here have we ever done that so i've started just saying like if it's a star swatch i'm not gonna put it in here but there were like five sales like right in a row that i wanted to cover so we're gonna do it as the world turns star swatch mayhem here we go rhea ripley had a base star swatch autograph which is out of twenty five sell for twenty five hundred dollars like oh my god great relic on this i i own one of these i was very happy to see this i'm keeping that one for sure it's one that i've wanted for so long and could never find it finally got one glad i did but it's not a base it's it's lower number this is the base and it went for twenty five hundred bucks holy shit yeah so i wanna finish this because i have a card here from doing some starch watches earlier today in the shop shout out to carson i wanna talk about this at the end of this program but i've been doing some more homework we know these are surfacing some of these star swatches are getting sniped up for cheap money sniped like like people are undervalued i think was it ray mysterio i think still for seventy bucks or something like that something like that yeah oh man but no this one again they're just they're in collections all the rios are put up nobody wants to sell these especially if you're trying to build the twenty five set these twenty fives are gonna keep bringing more money because the twenty five set is attainable to build financially it's getting a little crazy and i think it's gonna get even crazier but this is just it's great to see i love it yeah as a as a connoisseur of fine star swatches yourself you are very much enjoying this star swatch mayhem no i don't because it costs me more money every time i buy one i sell one to help a friend out i pay morty for the next one i got one to replace it yeah yeah yeah here's the crazy thing there was a gold john cena that sold for a hundred dollars less than the base rhea ripley it has a great relic so it's not a relic situation this is a gold so the golds are one of the most desirable parallels and the gold cena sold for twenty five four hundred it it went in like ten seconds so i don't know if this is just a a low comp because somebody didn't know what they had but like i was like this is this is weird do not like do not post your star swatches for anything less than you feel like you can like post the money high and take offers but this one went way too low these have been selling regularly above this amount of money so i just put this in here to say it's not all peaches and rainbows but like this gold scene it deserved a higher price and i was like woah this is this kinda shocked me a little bit yeah i mean well didn't we just cover a psa ten one doing five grand recently i mean this is like that it was ridiculous yeah i mean but like it it's just again these are gonna keep going up psa ten they're hard to grade yes they're in the holder these are still thick cards they're still on card no i i've never graded a single one all the ones i own i probably need to eventually but then again i won't see them for a year so that draws me back on that so yeah here is a white box and this is goes back to our conversation from the redemption saga show so this one is a green austin that is normally numbered to five these are again not meant for packs to be used once they realize that they've got a full run they start putting these into white boxes go back and listen to our show we explain how the white box cards come to be this one sold for twenty two twenty five so it's about where a base star swatch goes for it is labeled quote unquote a one of one but i think austin at a green austin out of out of five is not gonna sell for twenty two fifty it's gonna sell well above that so this is this is about the where you said it was you said i think base base comps right yeah i i really think of these again these white box black boxes stuff like that they are in the eyes of the beholder it all depends on that person that really wants it i've had people reach out on hogan's because he's got a lot of them getting my thoughts and like there may be immaculate or impeccable ones i'm like you need to look at a base one and look from that perspective in my opinion you're better off owning the true versus one because these are ones that they haven't signed extra for damages and stuff like that so after a certain point they get to make these type of cards i own white boxes and black boxes of rpc but i'm never actively going out there trying to buy them and definitely overpaid for them because they're one zero one yeah i'm not either i i've i've seen the becky ones that are out there i have a few of them but i'm not actively chasing them they're not pack pulled guards yep here is a base cody rhodes so again not a great relic on this it's two colors kind of meh but it's still sold for two thousand dollars via best offer here so again people are going and buying these up because they know what people are going for like we talk about it all the time but we're not talking about it because no one else cares everybody is caring about these cards and we're mentioning it because of that and i think like this one specifically gave me extreme pause because there is like i was not expecting to see a base cody rhodes with kind of a meh relic sell for two grand it's funny i i think three just sold in the past few weeks because i had to price my base cody which was a nasty patch which i'm posting the video later it blew this out of the water but the guy moved it to and i'm gonna talk about it at the end i called it two thousand to him in the deal and it's way better than this but even to me i was like am i really pricing a cody at two thousand dollars and still holds worth less yes we're in that time where cody rhodes is bringing that type of money because the cheapest act of cody rhodes when i looked today was like five thousand for a ruby so alright so that thus ends to the this week's edition of star swatch mayhem i promise we won't harp on it any more than we already do but like i can't stress this enough like how active the flawless market has become because of this injection of supply and i'm seeing it on facebook people are posting flawless cards at like comps from twenty twenty five like you guys like i understand how difficult it is to price some of these cards because they just just do not sell the max print run on a flawless card is twenty five so the comps are few and far between but if you need help if you need help please reach out we are happy to help you with it doesn't matter if it's a base card or a one of one i've seen there are a lot of one on ones that are floating around that people just do not know how to just reach out to us we'll help you out yeah well there's one thing in search watch i had told you i was gonna save it at the end carson golden card deals came up today about three and a half hours away and i told him when i saw him in dallas that i would help him complete his twenty five day set i i got him to do that we're posting a video well by the time he watched this it's already posted of him and his complete set however he was the man he was in the lubo card show this past weekend and somehow stumbled upon this card in the case just got this today i don't know when i'm gonna post it but check that out the seth rollins one zero one flawless logo gym this was the one that i was obviously after and it just happened to be in a case with not much wrestling and is now home so he he gave me a very very fair price on this towards our deal so i wanna give carson a shout out because a i was able to help him with the base set and give up my only cody to twenty five but i i was like there's no way i'm not gonna help him complete this and i he brought the other ones with him so i have a picture of his set together and a video of that it's just a follow-up if you haven't seen it but look at that if you're following us on patreon there's my seth rollins if you're not i'm sure by the time you listen to this i probably posted it and it's it's going home yeah some sometime in the future like i think you and i like i get this question like all the time like what's your favorite becky lynch card in your collection like yes i have a video that tops made but like it's it's different for for us when we're like actually like free to talk about it on our own podcast where we can sort of highlight maybe we'll have to plan that out in the future where we talk about like what makes our favorite cards our favorite cards and stuff like that from a wrestling collection so i get i get that question all the time for a title match topic and we'll wrap this up i i'm genuinely curious your thoughts on this because we get this a lot which is what really is the complete package i'm not gonna use a total package because lex luger but what is the complete package for a collectible wrestler superstar type person what do they have to need what do they have to possess to have someone be worth the attention of a collector and then maybe also like what is the complete package for like a card or a set or a type of card as well like curious your thoughts there i think for me a lot of it is aura i think they have to have that and i think it's one of those things where when you're watching them in a match and you just your jaw drops because you're like wow that is talented i know you're not big on aw will ospreay is incredible wrestler if i would collect anybody in aew it would be him not only because i got to briefly talk to him in vegas with my family it was great he was so awesome but he has that i'm just not a big aew guy i think it's when i watch orton for years and it obviously didn't hurt that he was born and raised from st louis man my favorite wrestlers of all time are some of the best heels and i'm a heel guy i'm a heel wrestler i always been fans of heels i think that what grabs me i think you could do so much with the heel they could easily make them a big baby face i mean let's be honest orte was on a five year run as a baby face which was weird to me yeah not need to be on a run but i think it's just one of those things where you're like you see them and you're watching them week after week and you're like that's him or that's her i think you just once you know that and you feel that just just not as a collector watch that as a wrestling fan and if you feel that then that kinda gives you an idea it's telling your your mind's telling you i think this is somebody i wanna collect that is one thing that i think always grabbed me was when i started watching seth rollins over and over when the shield was this seth rollins is kind of the the like kinda not the one they really talked about it was dean on the mic it was roman as the body and there was seth but as a more the worker yeah he was the worker and the more i watched him and man he developed into a incredible heel then i started realizing this is my next guy i don't need another wrestler to collect for the love of god i don't wanna collect anymore i collect two already so if i could give you any advice try to collect one unless you have a kid that wants to collect an entire faction just a faction more then you're screwed but if i could give you any advice it would be stay like adam stay to just one wrestler and then collect a little bit of a couple of the wrestlers every now and then like a nice ria stuff like that but try to focus on one because financially it is just dumb for me to do as much yeah it's getting expensive for sure i think from a wrestling standpoint like the the ryan just basically took thirty or forty seconds to say they need to be compelling and i think like that's aura is is my son's favorite way to explain something like this yes that is crazy important i think ora is defined as like their entrance their mic skills their work skills like if you've got all of those things and there are very few people that have all the complete package the complete package we're talking about like like if you look at stephanie vicair who i think is one of the best workers in wwe she has a cool entrance she is not good on the mic because english right now is not her first language same with eo sky like there's and liv morgan same thing like she has gaps in her game there are people out there who don't rhea ripley being one of them on the women's side i think that is one of the reasons why i find obafemi so compelling is because he has all of those things and he sort of transcends the the wrestling of it right there are people dancing in the crowd as he's walking out like that doesn't happen very frequently so if you can find those diamonds of people who are like doing something that hasn't been done before like rhea was this goth chick that everybody gravitated towards because she has this compelling nature to her i completely agree ryan man that that's what drew me to becky originally was her and austin were my two favorite wrestlers i've said this a million times including on that topps video like that's what drew me to she's a compelling character she's not the best worker but she can work she gets great matches out of people so her matches are not boring by any means way shape or form but i think like those are the types of people that make somebody collectible is there they have to be compelling last thing from a card perspective like what do you think makes the complete package from a type of card or a set i mean define what you really want me to get out of this because i wanna answer i wanna answer this correctly so i think obviously we've talked a ton about flawless and i think what makes that really the complete package is a combination supply demand legacy all of those things k but it also has really awesome designs and great photos and all those other things it really is a complete package i think prism represents a lot of that too like there's just there's that legacy element to it there's a collectible nature with the parallels great photos all those things for me like there's a reason why people gravitate towards expensive sets but that doesn't mean that an inexpensive set cannot have that same sort of complete package where on the verge of the release of stadium club which i think is gonna be a highly collectible set even though the value really isn't there i mean there's there's just things that about a type of card that make it collectible and i think for me it's always about a few things one of them is the design they have to have a history of great design topps prism select all the shiny sets traditionally have really really solid year after year the designs look great the photos is one of my like i if a card is a a bad photo on i'm not buying it like it's that's it's just gotten it just gotten to the thing like it's gotten to me if it has a bad photo i'm not buying it that's the end way it's that's literally like a a deal breaker for me and last thing is like if if the idea behind it we just saw for royalty which which we didn't really cover because we were focused on money in the bank they're bringing a grand slam champion set to royalty next year and there's gonna be a dual autograph of john cena and bailey that was signed coming up here and i i talked to tops about this set a long time ago because one of the ideas that i've had for a long time and i really wanted to see a set made focusing on grand slam champions they're finally doing it the theme of that set is going to make it collectible and i think that's the type of stuff that i'm looking for is like i and i think other collectors gravitate towards that as well it's like it's not just another base card it's not just another parallel it's not just a new set with a lot of hype like like what we've seen with cosmic and some of the other things like it is truly like has staying power for those reasons that was a long explanation i'm sorry no that was good i i wanna hear where you wanna go with it so obviously you're you're like always gonna say flaws floss is a one time deal i'm not gonna talk about flaws i'm gonna talk about two two two things that tops has done and one thing is is debut patches for wrestlers which we just started getting this past year what if we had to be debut patches for becky lynch randy orton hoco what would those things do and again now these debut patches are still young we don't know what future holds for these wrestlers but if you're all in on sol rukia or avakir i i mean i don't know what card is more important at this time for those type of wrestlers than their debut patch was worn on their main roster debut on tv you probably watched it that brings you closer then we'll go to royalty we'll talk about the wrestlemania patches that is the biggest stage of them all that is the super bowl super bowls and why we know the scene went for what it went for for what it stood i still stand by the fact that he didn't wear it but it is what it was what it would have represented so to me you know what those are from they're also on the back of them they have this qr thing you could scan it tells you about them that doesn't they get you closer to these wrestlers than ever yes they're they're match worn relics and they did like royalty did a really cool job and universe did this a little bit too where they're like hey this is from tiffany's smackdown debut that's cool but most of these you have no idea what they're from these debut patches these wrestlemania patches and soon to be summerslam patches are dated there that's what i used to love about cards i've talked about this podcast before how back in the day companies twenty something years ago would put a picture of say babe ruth jersey on the back of it yeah it would say it was from this day or this game the put topps used to make super bowl pylon super bowl footballs one of tom brady's iconic cards is the two thousand two thousand two hundred tops usa one yeah point being is those are things that are dated historically in whatever we're looking at especially for wrestling you know when that was worn you know what moment that was to me i don't know what gets you closer to that wrestler and that time than those type of cards yeah it's a great point and i'm gonna i i minimize the thing here so you can see like on my wall is like a an event worn like becky lynch like jacket so the event worn stuff that you're talking about like means a lot to me and like literally like right here there's like an nxt worn shirt that she has too so i i definitely prioritize event worn stuff and and stuff that you can date i think that's really cool i i agree with you on that topps has done a tremendous job there and has really made those things more collectible i think just like overall like people ask us like how do i know what's the next big thing to like go and sort of search out it's hard for me to grasp that you guys seem to have that before again we're just looking at other sports like we're not the ones dictating these trends we're not the ones like going out and saying oh you should go buy star swatches you should go buy this like that's literally what happened in the nba that's literally what happened in the nfl we're just literally going and sort of like repurposing that for wwe at a later time frame because wwe is always behind so we're we just have the answer key like we already know what's coming we we saw the writing on the board because we saw the writing on the board myself and brian i don't know how many we had together we have all done basketball we've done other sports the riding was on the wall it was obvious as day when when we we had like brett hart we're doing a hundred and fifty two hundred bucks we're talking soulcolds are doing four to five hundred dollars we knew there's no way these were gonna sustain these price levels so therefore we are putting them back and look what they're doing now it's not because we're old we just knew that eventually it was going to catch up and i still don't think they're at the level what they're gonna sell for they're always gonna keep going up and i and here i am bringing you like a whole box of them but anyways like i think the the understanding is like we're we're looking at these cards from the perspective of somebody who knows what these represent in other sports prism is not a unique situation in wwe it's literally been everywhere select chrome all those things that we talk about on a regular basis have all been successful outside of wrestling that's why we talk about it so much on this podcast it's it's about the brand as much as it is about anything and the companies purposefully break or bring these legacies across their licenses because they know it's got proven success so i don't think we're we're doing anything i think we're we're just trying to help people and educate people like you can have this too just look to the other areas and you'll see things like the inscription autos things like the wrestlemania patches the debut patches like all that's been done before it's not new just because they're bringing it to wrestling what's go ahead no go ahead and while you finish i'm late but but that doesn't mean yeah that doesn't mean that there can't be other stuff that is specific to wrestling that is new for wrestling that can generate its own hype so anyways what were you gonna say real real quick okay let's just use this for an example the solruco debut patch was a redemption pulled by a breaker at the time i think traded for what fifteen twenty grand nothing it was trading paul skein sold for one point one million dollars one point one million dollars for a pitcher in baseball who pitchers don't always have a long longevity career right where i'm not comparing solruku to paul skeens but the level of heightness that solruka had coming in and where we're at that is a fraction an absolute fraction entry level what is that is like that is like just a fraction so there is so much room to grow with these debut patches these wrestlemania passes when summertime comes comparing apples to oranges when you're comparing other sports look at what these things are bringing i think the pca just ran i don't or it's running right now after an mvp season what opportune time to cash out that's gonna bring insane numbers so just look at other trends and other things it's not us saying oh we know what's gonna happen because we're pumping it up and no we just study everything else yeah well this is nothing yeah we're not we're not giving we're not doing this just because we think we're experts and we're finding some path that no one's taken before like these are all very clear things from the beginning and i remember getting on a show at like in like twenty twenty two and saying like buy those prism golds buy those prism golds they're gonna go and look at where look at any gold that is really high grade desirable wrestler doesn't matter it's just like crazy buddy buddy you bring that up but i gotta say alex breaker mayfield he sold me the randy orton gold psa ten which i've never sold i think it was like three or four months ago because you reached out i think it was you and sam reached out steve mok and i messaged him and i was like what are you wanting for it and he's like i want this but you passed out the last time at that price he said yeah times have changed give me the card i'm done searching searching i'm just paying your number i should have paid it two years ago or a year ago when you had it and i just said screw it i'm paying it because a it was a psa ten there's only ten and by the way i paid about what the first ever one hit the market for when it was raw when it got pulled so at the end of the day i said screw it even though i think it was worth less what do i have to go off of anymore if i need it to complete because i have the black i'm just paying the number and i'm calling it a day so just think about that there aren't many there aren't many complete prism rainbows i have all three from all three years but outside of that like there are very few people that have managed to put together a full twenty twenty two rainbow there's very few people that have managed to put together any of these there's so many parallels and like that's what's so different about wrestling is like in in football in baseball you're you're dealing with the flipper vortex of like people wanting to make money on the cards versus actually collecting them in wrestling it's always been completely different and i think you're because you're competing with that prices are gonna tend to like reflect those jumps as more collectors recognize like ryan has i need this like i need this for my run and like i don't have it it had it never comes up so i'm just gonna pay whatever price is out there and that has happened to me it's happened to ryan it's happened to brett it's happened to literally everybody steve you name it like if you want the card you just buy it and that creates these comps it creates this like natural upward trajectory that isn't present in some of the other sports now it isn't disney and pokemon and all these other things be for other reasons but wrestling's unique in that respect and i think that's really cool what's funny about that and real quick for you and i because you and i kinda know what the market is for our wrestlers we collect we know what it is because we kinda create it and there's so many times that we literally tell ourselves we are overpaying for this one we know we're overpaying yeah when i come to buying in my shop like i'm not overpaying but randy orton you got a randy orton one zero one oh okay whatever i know i'm overpaying by a lot but let's just get it that's how we are sometimes like look at what's happened with those oh god we keep going and going i know look at what's happened with those slammed inserts man like i just got a message from chad saying he was ready to buy a gun through at a huge amount i paid a ton for becky you paid a lot for randy orton yep like those slammed inserts are just so beyond awesome i can't even say but like i just i was like you know what just get it off my list i'm just just i pulled an adam and i just got off my list i said i don't care yeah i i don't know if i'm gonna pick one up for half this price of the road or double the price i'm getting one i'm over yeah and that's the type of stuff that happens on a regular basis well i get to see you this in a couple of days here by the time this airs we will have probably been there and done i'm i get to see your storm so excited get to hang out with the crew maybe even join the the official rbi crew podcast and it's called kick it with the crew yes you get to join the crew check it out also get to do while you're here at dinner enjoy some man sodas with me oh god i it's only if you don't it's only if you refuse to call him yeah i gotta say adam's coming in for the day i gotta pick him up at the airport on thursday i'm looking forward to it man it's gonna be a fun day we're gonna take it pick you up have you on the podcast take you to lunch wine and dine you and maybe get a little weird and do a little ripping i'm sure i'm oh are you kidding of course there's gonna be ripping look at where we are we're in the mecca of wrestling card ripping like are you crazy anyways it was great having sort of this buy sell hold next week we'll i'm sure we're gonna have quite a bit to talk about with the stadium club release coming in pending shortly after we're seeing royalty getting signed at events now we've seen wrestlemania patches get signed for this year we've got a lot to cover that we've sort of like pushed off because we've been covering the panini stuff money in the bank like every it's been great these last few weeks really fun episodes and that's why they've run a little long which is ryan's favorite thing next time we have to do like three hours just to piss him off but with that i i think that's it for this week and we will see you next week skull we we know it's the oh wait okay we just ruined the ending it's the bi week so i don't think i this is the first time we're gonna be able to to come on this podcast and not wear our jerseys next week we're not we're not wearing new jersey's next week no we're not but but who are the vikings playing like right after the bi week i can't remember volksers i i can't remember i can't remember it's gonna be a tough test they got they got to run there they gotta go on but i think we're gonna get healthy so no viking jerseys for anybody that's following picture in next week so you have to see the purple or whatever is that the divisional jerseys the rivalry jersey so no jerseys next week but congrats to our five and o vikings awesome to see if you're not a vikings fan i get it you don't wanna you don't wanna lose super bowl care about this you probably stopped listening like an hour ago absolutely so on that note big oops see you later