it's episode twenty four yes it is i have returned and i am fired up to be back oh man it's it's good to be back adam how are doing today it's good to have you back man thanks it is it is good to have you back i listened you guys had a great podcast last week by the way outstanding job by you and brett thank you i appreciate that we had a good time i'm gonna i i have a slide prepared because i i i feel like this is appropriate that's great yes it is appropriate for those following along on patreon i am showing eric bischoff he's back and better than ever i was gonna put an extra tan on him but it just took a while to a a little tan right now i will say that it has not gone away yet but it will when i'm inside the next i don't know month so so vacation was nice i i i've heard so yes it was except i didn't get sick there but i was kinda under the weather earlier this week so that's why we're recording this on a thursday versus a tuesday so i actually did not have a voice it was not that ideal you actually we zoomed that day to talk about stuff and it was difficult for me to talk so i didn't think doing the podcast on tuesday was too wise for my throat and the condition i was in but i am great today that is good i'm glad to hear it there's a lot to talk about as always because there's never a dull week in wrestling cards but glad to to have some time to talk because man there's been a lot of stuff that's happened we'll get into all of it yes yes but you know it's we're you know when you get into the summer and we said this like when we started this podcast we're like oh we're heading into wrestlemania season like it's gonna be crazy and then it's just like and then it's like this summer is also going to be crazy so like there's no break as we're recording this i am about forty eight hours away from seeing adam's beautiful face in person in monticello minnesota where i'll be this weekend with my family for the grand opening sports cards which you have not been to the new store i haven't yet but i've seen how it like i've i've driven by it because my son plays baseball out there and store looks from the outside the store looks awesome i can't wait to see it my kids are gonna come we're gonna i promised them pokemon cards so they're they're very excited they'll have that and and yeah we'll we're gonna we'll come during the afternoon my kids have some games in the morning so we're gonna come in the afternoon have a good time get to see you the banisters are in your town oh boy it's not always a good thing so always a good thing hide your hide your town here we come so let's get into the opening pyro because i i'm sure you heard our rants on the last one just about the way things are going it's it's gotten worse unfortunately in some of these gosh i i don't like i don't wanna spend the next twenty minutes like bashing wwe booking because i've been a supporter of the triple h era for a long time and this is honestly i think the worst it's been like i i think they've booked themselves into so many corners here oh yep and it's just it's so hard to like stay interested here when you know that these things impact the event that people in your city and your hopefully yourself are gonna attend for thousands of dollars and the main events of those nights are determined by outcomes of this tournament and the queen of the ring and king of the ring are not shaping up to be great sort of you know examples of primary booking in your biggest championships that exist so coming out of raw this week we now have one of the finals for the men one of the finals for the women finalists sorry for the men finalists for the women we have obafemi no shock there from the men and then you have io sky from the women and the issue is not io sky or obafemi both of them deserve to be in the finals it is what is happening outside of those matches that has humongous impact on what is going to drive not only the result of this tournament the collectability of these stars the booking of these stars which impacts the collectability like there's so much stuff here that has impact on the market i think the market has reacted to some of this as well it's just terrible overall this tournament has made me more upset than i've ever been so rant over have you had a chance to catch up since you well said yes because let's be honest oba's probably gonna interfere to this match whoever he thinks after that promo yeah yes with brock i i'm assuming at this point it's gotta be jey uso they're gonna i mean like i just don't think javon's ready for a championship match yet so you gotta think it's gonna be jey uso because you're trying to make the bloodline even stronger this time around the way you've made fatu look the way he is and at this point you were like oba if you didn't have this feud with brock lesnar brock lesnar and oba was done after mania which should have happened we all know that but since it's not here we are and you know we're gonna get oba brack at summerslam there's just no way that would be the way to go out at this point for brock's career if it's over or the the way to end their one on one record right now so you gotta assume oba's losing to more than likely jey uso so jey uso is your king of the ring for the men what are we doing i mean how many botches can we make out of this time around but okay so he wins so then is he fighting cody for the belt i i don't know you gotta assume people were suggesting that too and then maybe they don't know cody and then go the bloodline's gonna have both belts then ugh and then you go over to the women at this point is i love that eos perfect but i think we're on a collision course for eo verse my opinion charlotte which are ria's two girls friends i guess you would say i i just don't what's the point of liv like what is the point of liv in this why is she in this tournament i've said that eighteen times like why if i i could have seen it if you had liv and raquel on a collision course but that is dead in the water because that would have made sense hold on a second if liv and raquel face off in the in the in the championship match for this or the the finals for this they can't they now but i'm saying that they could've if they if they had yes so then liv and raquel wrestle raquel theoretically wins then they do the same match again at summerslam like that doesn't make any sense i don't know what to do with this thing yeah that's what i'm saying it's like these like this is why tournaments never happened in many of the like the high level wrestling organizations like i like japan aew loves tournaments and they just they don't because they don't book angles the way that wwe does wwe is much more rich in the way that they tell these stories stories hundred percent yeah and like you can't tell a story around a tournament like should liv and raquel eventually have a match i said this last week yes they absolutely should but is this the vehicle to get there no absolutely not that stable has been there for three years at this point you're gonna break it up over a fucking king queen of the ring tournament like come on but anyway but anyways like i think the the idea here is that obafemi should not have to take another loss that's number one it's gotta happen you assume it's gonna happen because brett brock lesnar is gonna be hater of the year fly all the way to saudi arabia to interfere in this match and and then you have jay and javon explain to me why maybe you go with somebody like la knight instead because yep la knight has a huge crowd reaction just like jay does has history with the bloodline and roman reigns you're telling that story too it seems like la knight would be a better choice is it the summerslam match that everybody had hoped for no but you booked this tournament like shit so i'm sorry that's what we're left with if you if you had had rollins win instead of jevon even though javon is awesome he's you said it right he's not ready for this and i think collectors are are left with this big giant like what the hell am i supposed to buy right now like i can't feel confident in obafemi anymore because i know he's gonna be facing brock lesnar at summerslam hear me out maybe he wrestles brock on night one and roman on night two but like i i don't know like there's so many question marks here that is that is made worse by this tournament interesting that's a good point like that okay because let let's be honest oba against jay or javon squash match no matter what you look at it jay obviously has more of a career more okay he can put on a better match javon is just he's half the size of oba there's just okay so they did have a good match in the nxt i like what you said there's an outside chance that oba could still win this and then he fights brock one night and roman the next night but we don't you let's build up roman oba oba roman does not need to happen roman is not dropping that belt anytime soon you're building up the bloodline so the ideal situation is you make jay win this then jay fights it's not gonna fight roman i mean you're not gonna have jay or roman again off the bat kinda what they're telling this because like jay and roman and jacob fatu like they're all sort of like swirling around like that story that they're telling on monday night raw is that there's division already in this new bloodline yeah and then jacob fatu is really driving this so like the and i love that story like no it's great yeah jacob fatu's element of this what they did with eric andre was beyond awesome like jacob fatou is awesome jay is not jay is a tag team wrestler yep and i i love like i love that they've been able to get something out of a guy like that who's been there for ten plus years tag team wrestler they found a a place for him in the main event he gets the crowd going everybody loves him but he's not a five star match guy and he never will be you don't need to be a five star match guy in wwe though you need to be a three star match guy and i don't even think jay is that so it's like we're in a situation now where okay most of the time coming into summerslam coming into wrestlemania collectors are like i wanna buy the person i think are gonna win these matches or at least be featured on this pay per view none of that is clear right now because of this tournament and i am incensed by the fact that people like like tiffany stratton people like bailey and lyra and all those other guys on the women's side didn't get any chance because they put liv in this stupid bracket for no reason you have charlotte flair who doesn't need another one of these opportunities at this moment even her storyline with alexa bliss given everything collectors don't need to see that they wanna see people like you know sol rooka like those people on the women's side and on the men's side maybe dominic mysterio does deserve more of a spotlight here he is hugely popular with everybody he gets tons of heat maybe he maybe he doesn't need to face oba in the semifinals maybe you don't put oba in this bracket for a reason right maybe he gets injured and they say well he was gonna be in this but now he can't because brock lesnar attacked him gonna have a match at summerslam instead of oba being in this tournament and taking another loss like those are the types of booking decisions that were not made instead they just had chad gpt build these brackets it makes me so upset yeah i don't know i i don't think we need to beat the dead horse anymore on this i think this is beating it up last week and it's it's just pounding it more on the ground and i think it's next week we're gonna talk and it's still gonna be the same same feeling on this situation so alright there's two other items that i wanna cover here one there's been a lot of talk that rhea ripley is hurt and she might have a knee injury that is the worst possible news for smackdown which is already down drew mcintyre they're already down randy orton they're already down all these people there is nobody left to tell good stories the way that they need to be told because as much as i love io sky like she needs other people to have a story with and rio was one of those people but you know still it's like those types of things are driven by people being available and it seems like stephanie vaquera is not available like all these other people not available now rhea ripley too like juice that is bad yeah the the product is not that great i mean you get the right names but there's really no good stories to go with it i'll be honest with you smackdown i don't ever watch on tv i just watch highlights i read and i just catch up that way me too i just don't being friday night it's just too much going on a and b it's just it's not a good product i mean it's it's night and day how raw is for smackdown raw is a product that you go i'm watching this smackdown used to be that way used to love smackdown smackdown was great back in the day i feel like they've gotta figure this out sooner than later because it continues to get hurt and hurt and more just just not watchable let's be honest but outside of this tournament outside of this tournament raw has been great penta and ray the jacob fatu thing all the stuff that they're doing outside of this tournament on raw is great like literally great like i'm very very happy about it the tournament's what drags everything down but smackdown on the other hand i don't think i don't think there's anybody from a collecting standpoint that i would even wanna go put money into at this point like cody rhodes is dead in the water as a champion it feels like and like we're just waiting for somebody to take the belt off of them for them to build up somebody enough to take the belt off of them which collectors are gonna respond to in the market and they have started doing that market softening overall for sports cards in general because of the psa news now i think this is gonna start affecting the fringe areas like wrestling more than sports cards so having people on tv not holding up their end of the bargain is only gonna hurt that further do you agree i agree i think cody is going got one way to go right now is down i think once he loses this belt it's gonna be a while for it gets put back on him i think he was supposed to drop the belt at mania but things change with potential orton injury orton should be carrying this belt right now and terrorizing everybody on smackdown as a heel as the o nine two thousand nine orton i think smackdown would be a lot better shape but again that's me being biased but let's be honest we are on a trajectory for that so i i think yes and right now we know we're coming up the hype mania's done and summerslam is hype but it's not the mania hype and we had a lot of products released and again psa is affecting it for sure but i think it's also the time of year too i think there's a lot going on it's just time of year this is just shifting this is very common i think at this point let's be honest july is huge we have three massive shows in july we have the west coast card show and the fanatics fest same weekend oh and two weeks so ten days later is the national so we know people at this point are probably saving their money to go to these shows because let's be honest west coast east coast centralized three massive shows across the country so if you're not willing to fly to chicago from california oh you can go here if you're not willing to go there to there you're grabbing everybody in a in a two week span so i know people are saving money right now i have employees who save money all year to go spend it there so they cut back on their spending unless your name's nathan who is addicted to buying something every day of his life but i'm saying is that this is very common this has been going on forever it used to be you save up for the national you slow down online buying because you wanna go there and have more money because let's be honest you walk the national money does not last long there because there's just so much opportunity to buy so i think that's something to put in consideration as well too yeah no that's that's a great point i think like overall summer is bad for cards like it just it always has been always like basketball ends so that that wave comes to like a very screeching halt mostly football hasn't ramped up yet that doesn't happen until later in the year so things slow down because people wanna spend money at the national they wanna spend ramp up next month in july because everybody's hype because saying leading into this yes leading into it correct yes so like you you have like summer is always a slower time prior to the national vacations vacations everybody's home from school like there's a lot more money that has to be spent on your kids and stuff like that so yeah i get it but i think from a wrestling perspective we're starting to see like more of an impact of than other aspects that i think some of the values are we'll get into here in a minute but some of the values are dipping a little bit on on products with the flood of stuff that's come like we knew that that was gonna happen i think by the time we get to survivor series a lot of this conversation will be a mood discussion but like right now like the tv product lining up with all the summer shit like not not a great situation for wrestling cards overall add in more four thousand case products being dropped on our heads probably not a great situation either so like we'll get into that here in a second so i think if we're looking at the summer as like okay summerslam kicks off kind of that second half of the year even though wrestlemania was only two months ago like this is like after summerslam they start building up to wargames which builds into wrestlemania and royal rumble wrestlemania is in saudi arabia too so like i keep forgetting like there's not gonna be like that core group of people gathering in in one spot again so really interesting times all around yeah you're right let's get into some cardmike and high spots here i wanted because we we didn't get to talk last week get to some final thoughts on cosmic now that we have the seen the full breadth of the release you have you know been paying attention clearly but i think we're both in a position where we're watching rather than actively participating and i'm just curious like now that you've had a week to digest what cosmic is all about like what are your final thoughts before we sort of like okay what's next i think it's a horrible pick your wrestler case rep i've joined just the people i told you i'd join and i literally have dog shit for cards i mean look i think the best card i got was like an orton at twenty five now granted i'm not buying rome and all these other people but i think it's not ideally a good because you're not getting that autograph per box you're not getting you're getting three a case i guess it is two three four maybe the cards look incredible i'm not i'm not gonna say that but i just i think it's it's better than cactus check it might yes it's better than cactus check but it's on the same level because the lack thereof so at the end of the day i i it's trading well on the back end of it right now where it's just like deal or net b two b it's actually doing well and it's selling well for us too i think it's better off being ripped as a personal than to join a pick your wrestler case break to be honest with you that's my initial thought i could just tell you by the packages i received and what i looked through and i'm like glad i didn't go heavy on this one is all i feel like so you mentioned cactus jack because i we just got the odds in like today so like we we're getting to see how much of this was created cactus jack we we both agreed i think they inflated the print run to meet demand hundred percent and as a result only three to four autos a case left a really bad taste in people's mouths this feels worse like i think there's a thousand more cases of this than there were of cactus jack from what i'm seeing and it feels that way i think the like ripping through an eight box case and walking away with two or three autos feels absolutely horrendous and like for people who are building products like this you have to understand seventy to seventy five percent of the print run's gonna be on camera so like when you're ripping a case people are seeing how these things play out and it's you open a pack you get the dual card you get the the the refractor you get this you get the it's very very repetitive in terms of the way that the product and the break is structured and then there's no autograph or there's no planet in the box and you're just left like what just happened and i think that's really a detriment to what looks to be a pretty cool looking set like i think the planets look awesome in hand i think a lot of the case hits look awesome in hand i think a lot of the colors have cool stock patterns on them very similar to the way cactus jack did like those types of things go far with collectors but they can't enjoy it because they're paying three hundred and thirty dollars a box and getting nothing yep now most the sudden argue is it better to get a you know joe gacy autograph i know sore subject but let's say joe gacy autograph or case hit of somebody else that's maybe valued twenty dollars higher there's an argument there like there's an argument you made about tops chrome hobby versus get this tops chrome cosmic like there's there's arguments to be made both ways this feels from a ripping perspective like it's worse than cactus jack only because the the prices is holding much higher than cactus jack there's more of it and i think the like the autograph checklist is significantly deeper than cactus jack as well yeah i i mean i'll be honest with you we we ripped one case as a family then i think we did a couple boxes on the pod our kick with the crew podcast as a preview before i left and i'll probably have the kids probably kids probably rip some boxes while we're in minnesota this week i have no desire to go rip any cases of this anymore the other day i ripped some hobby chrome the other day and some delight just because i was like i wanna rip something wrestling this was not even consideration to me again i think the cards look great i think the product looks good but i don't like the fact that you're like oh i'm hoping i hit an autograph oh and my autograph is such and such for twenty five dollars you know cross or something i keep i i don't mean to keep going back to i'm i'm sorry those are wins because those are for my kids you know so yeah they they did it in nikki cross which was awesome so like to them again if you add an autograph per box which is what they should have done but again that's the the cosmic way across the landscape of the products they make but to me like them pulling a nikki cross was awesome they were happy but if you could deliver that one a box it makes it feel the sting not as much when you're like great doesn't have make your case yes yeah exactly you're like hey i'll i'm happy with the nikki cross on it for my kids like i just think an order per box should have been really thought about when they made this and really added the element because you know right now these are trending at about the same price as the tops chrome hobby which is guaranteed two autos a box give me hobby all day not even close the other thing is like the the format that they chose for this is based on baseball and and basketball where the planets are worth triple to quadruple because the market is bigger it can support this wrestling it's brand new wrestling collectors are notoriously weird when crossover stuff happens but i think like if you pull a planet in a baseball box like it's a big deal mhmm here like a sun goes for like fifty bucks mercury goes for like a hundred bucks and then so on and so forth for there we'll get to the odds here in a second but like i think baseball if you don't pull the autograph and you pull a planet or a case hit those are more valuable now the boxes cost more too so like all of these things just swirl around and it's just like this is why people are upset and i think like if this was two hundred twenty five dollars a box and there was an autograph per box and you get two or three planets a case like that's a home run like that's a grand slam product well said yep and it's and like it goes from like i'll i'll ask your star rating here in a second for me this is like two and a half three stars two and a half was the number in my head the whole time yeah so two and a half three stars only because i think the planets look awesome but like if if you put an autograph per box it's two hundred and twenty five bucks you take away all the bad this is what we always say take away all the bad stuff it's a four star product but like that's where i think tops as a product development team needs to look at this and say like do we need to honor the format in wrestling knowing that this is a significantly different market right no i i a hundred percent agree with you on that i hope that if they do make this product again which i don't know if it's on the calendar for next year at this point if they do that they go alright let's take into consideration to not be in that format let's give an auto a box because i we've been vocal with them about this and they understand you know the wrestling card community wants an autograph per box on what they do at least one just give them one one you know but i think the products would do well i mean give me universe all day along over this three hits versus this all day three hits like i still think universe is one of underrated products universe crush and the first year universe should hold long term value because it's match used stuff because we know next one we'll get there in a second yeah that's somewhere else see i don't even know the slide that's coming up in our brains i'm like link i don't i don't get i don't get everything thunder dude still on know you don't give me a preview you just roll with it then i'm like i already saved you sent it to me but do i read it no i like the element of surprise so but again i i'm gonna agree two and a half i was between two and three so i'm gonna go snap that right there two point five starts out of five on this one again i i think everything looks great about it i just hate the concept that oh you're not guaranteed in auto you know i think that's that's that sucks yeah because like royalty five star product brought down by a ripping experience pope like massive like sort of problems there this is probably a three and a half star product brought down by a totally negative ripping experience i like listen like planets are popular the the cards are popular like i get that it's deserved right i love the look of a lot of the stuff i'm not a fan of the base cards i talked about that ad nauseam not getting into it but like overall like topps didn't do a poor job here it's we're not saying topps' design team shit the bed here we are saying there needs to be more consideration of if you're gonna release four thousand cases of this there needs to be consideration of like how this breaks because again it's all on camera and we're very small community we all talk like there has to be some consideration there and like yeah add another autograph you add two more autographs per case at least softens that blow you add six more autographs per case all of a sudden we're in a completely different discussion and i it's funny like those autographs aren't gonna be hundred hundred fifty dollar cards all the time they're gonna be ten and twenty dollar cards but the experience just feels different and that's so important right let's talk about real quick compare and contrast first year revolution w to b was a hundred dollar box sometime they got a little less than that you were guaranteed i think it was like four autos a case an inner i think four autos a master that was before they even had the kabooms and they had obviously galactics but at a hundred dollars a box you were okay you didn't care yeah exactly this is three thirty exactly and then the next year they implemented the kabooms with the same autograph but that took a while to take off because the kabooms didn't take off you only got one kaboomy case so i think consideration price point back to what you said lower this box down to two and a quarter guaranteed auto home run you know but it's three hundred dollar box one auto no tops did sell it at two twenty five so like we can't fault them completely but they didn't guarantee an autograph i think if you had a guaranteed autograph yeah you rip hobby for the same price as this right now and get two autos a box yes they may not be the best two autos but you might get one really good one might weak one but you're still getting autographs and that's you're every wrestler it's more satisfying i will say this when it comes to wrestling cards for the most part a common autograph just a basic run of mill is at least five bucks in baseball it could be like a dollar know let's be honest in wrestling most of them sell for minimum five bucks if it's a bottom of the barrel lowest and low you're gonna get you're gonna get five bucks baseball you're paying three four hundred dollars a box you get some rookie pitcher that you don't even know and next thing you know he's in your dollar two dollar box so wrestling always is about that five dollars so again just another thing to consider it it's all about the perception about the value of what the collector is getting when they rip this yeah i would say if i'm tops next year and this is the that we can move on after this number one double down on the autograph content like that has to be something that is pro like collectors need that in wrestling as ryan said number two reduce the amount of case hits there's too many case hits i think there's five here and and then there's ten different planets so you have light years you have geocentric you have cosmic dust and you have some parallels that are case hits too like i know they're trying to backfill things without the autograph content if you add more autograph content you can reduce the complexity there really important for adoption really in in important for crossover appeal for access like wrestling cards need accessibility they need to be easy to understand so following a a a baseball model for this isn't gonna work the same way in wrestling you need simpler stuff i'm not saying wrestling card collectors are dumb they're just newer to this type of format than and you're trying to bring new people into the hobby because most of the wrestling card collectors that are coming in are not coming from baseball and nfl and basketball they're coming from seeing it on tv seeing it at conventions seeing people just talk about it online you want those people to come in and have an accessible product a cheaper product and i think topps is like well we sold this at two twenty five it's not our control if it goes up to three thirty yeah but sell it like build it to be a lower priced product so it's more accessible because that's what really would make cosmic just so much better what i wanna know real quick before we move on is i'm gonna use blood for example right now blood cards right now cosmic's two ninety a box there however i just looked universal there two ten a box two hundred ten dollars yeah hundred almost a hundred dollars less and you get three hits a box two autos one relic versus a product almost a hundred dollars or more you're not guaranteed an auto and then the case hits i mean the plutos the the or whatever the the planets you know but give me universe all day not even close and there are a hundred dollar difference a box i just don't get it yeah so i wanna like just before we we move off of cosmic i we did get the odds today so we do have a better understanding of how many planets exist this was a hot topic coming out because the sun cards were everywhere mercury cards were everywhere i think we're starting to see why that's the case we predicted that a lot of this stuff was going to be very very easy to to understand that the inner planets are gonna be very common and they are i think based on odds and these are just projections they're not actual print runs i would expect there's about four hundred and fifty of the suns or one in a hundred and thirty four packs two hundred and fifty of the mercury's about one in two hundred fifteen packs venus you're getting down in about the hundred range one two hundred one in three hundred and twenty two packs earth you're already getting close to fifty copies so like a gold ish type refractor one in six hundred and forty four packs mars now we're under fifty likely even the forty range range one in over a thousand packs one thousand seven packs jupiter now you're at thirty give or take one in two thousand packs two thousand thirteen packs saturn twenty copies those are really getting scarce at that point one in four thousand packs that's why so few of them surfaced when you get into the outer planets this is where they become very very tough pulls uranus uranus whatever you wanna call it fifteen copies give or take one in eight thousand fifty packs neptune i was lucky enough to pull becky here with us oh congrats man one in sixteen thousand one hundred packs there's about ten copies of those and then pluto i've heard as low as two copies i would say it's probably around five just to keep this simple one in thirty two thousand two hundred and eighty packs that is insane but i will say we have seen two pluto sales one for seth rollins at a thousand dollars and one for cody rhodes at about fourteen hundred i think those values are probably gonna start to climb once people recognize how few of these pluto cards actually exist then if they're trying to build a rainbow too yeah yeah we're solar system i've been calling it yeah that would make more sense than calling it a rainbow i guess but if you wanna build your solar system your rainbow whatever like you're gonna need to jump on those outer planets sooner rather than later yeah here's the thing though i mean you've given this information if they're following you you know and they're paying attention you know this is something that people are uneducated about this is you're guesstimating on these numbers that's another reason why this product has got issues because people don't know that this is that rare like like it's the first time i'm hearing what you're speculating based on what you were giving the information i mean this information is now out there from you and you're giving to your followers but think about the people ripping this that have no idea that a uranus could be number to fifteen and then a you know there's just no information really out there and i think that is a lack thereof and i think that people need to be more educated about this yeah that that well that was the whole read like i think this is a key discussion for that reason is like concepts are more familiar in baseball and basketball and football now because people cross over those much more easily this is what we were talking about in the last podcast like is there a ceiling to this market because of the lack of education and information sharing that exists and i said no but i think like in certain circumstances the answer is yes because like there's not as much familiarity as you were just implying here which i agree with like not as many people knew that there were only gonna be two to five planet cards for that pluto size or that that pluto odds sheets being at the size that it is like thirty two thousand packs is enormous and we're talking tens tens and tens of cases here that you before you even get a sniff at a neptune let alone pluto mhmm and so i think like the like we saw aj lee sell at nine hundred dollars we saw or i'm sorry alexa bliss sell at nine hundred dollars at neptune we saw aj lee uranus sell for four eighty or something like these are expensive cars for a reason they're very tough to pull alright i wanna quickly talk about this uk product because it's been a hot topic topps decades nineteen nineties this is really topps' first legend only focus release since twenty nineteen i believe when they did the last legends product was it twenty nineteen or twenty eighteen i can't remember twenty eighteen if i'm correct i think it is okay they did two years of legends seventeen and or sixteen seventeen eighteen or something like that this is the first product they've released in a long time that's only legends and they chose the right decade obviously the attitude here in the nineties yep hundred and sixty dollars a box give or take converting from euros or pound sterling here it was only available in the uk very short run i would guess compared to what we're seeing in the us one autograph per box so again hundred and sixty bucks a box and all of the autographs are legends i mean like more more fuel for your argument there this is probably one of the best deals of the year and it's not even close i have been majorly critical of uk sets in the past i'm still critical of this one i'm not a huge fan of a lot of the designs especially especially some of these dual autograph ones look really weird i think the the the design work has always been suspect for uk but this is the best that they've done and oh by the way they found some roddy piper autographs they found some terry funk autographs they found some kamala autographs which last appeared in twenty twelve like we're talking long deceased wrestlers who have sticker autographs clearly in this set but when was the last time roddy piper even crossed your mind as somebody i'm gonna go chasing a break he hasn't had autographs since twenty fifteen he passed really tragically early so like stuff like that makes a difference this is huge yeah i know i mean adding that element's great i mean obviously this is the the prime time of wrestling that you and i grew up in and and watching so to me at a hundred and sixty dollars a box no brainer rip i'm obviously this was uk it's gonna come over here it's gonna go up i would assume and be minimum two fifty three hundred dollars a box i would guess it ain't gonna be one sixty i'll tell you right now is we did not get offered much if almost any of this under our tops account so very limited to us and so again i like the concept i'm kinda with you i'm a little indifferent on the designs and the looks but curious to see what these look like in hand like this undertaker supercharge card could really pop and look really cool in hand for all we know is this like this her like attempt of a kind of a kaboom is that you know in a way you don't know so but yeah add an element like roddy piper heck i mean i saw pele he's got autographs in the twenty six chrome next week so he's still got autographs coming to product so i mean i'm sure there's stickers sitting everywhere i'm sure they saw pogan stickers too but but he's in here too yeah of course so i mean i like it i i don't i don't hate it at all i i'm just curious i think it's still early phases we need to see what these things look like in person but the right names are in this i mean you're getting people from our channel numbered yeah i think i think austin rock undertaker like those are probably gonna be five like historically uk products the good names are very very difficult to pull they're very low numbered the rock has on card autographs in this product from what i'm told so does triple h so like really good checklist they're just gonna be crazy hard to yeah but i wanna i i mean is this something they may i don't can't see them making a lot of this product i get i'm sure this is a much more limited product so i'm curious to see how it plays out i can't wait to for you and i to talk more about it when the product gets ripped and we get to see some of this stuff so yeah it'll be accessible like i think you can probably get a rock autograph out of this product for probably five hundred to a thousand bucks when all of his other autographs are two three thousand apiece like that's an opportunity for people like if there's now if there's only five of them then great but no not happening but yes they're not happening but if there's if there's ten to twenty five rock autographs like they may be five hundred bucks apiece like that's hugely accessible i think austin's autographs are probably gonna be a hundred and fifty bucks hogan's probably gonna be a hundred a hundred and fifty like those are the types of things like because history has not been kind to these uk products like they don't sell for much people like me historically have just said i don't collect the uk stuff it's not my thing and there's a lot of old school collectors that still feel that way because we didn't like what they were doing before this is at least a step up so yes it's a step in the right direction i guess we should say yeah good good call exactly alright now we're getting into the meat of the discussion here there have been four wrestlemania patch autographs that have come into focus over the last couple of weeks i'm gonna go through them one by one because i've this is i'm sure the part of the podcast that everybody's been waiting for tiffany stratton jay uso finn balor and ray phoenix all public publicly offered there will be three public sales that result from this and one private sale in the finn balor sold through santiago sports cards tiffany stratton was listed at buy it now on ebay at like sixty k over a week's time it came down from sixty k down to twenty two where it officially sold the seller dropped that buy it now price pretty regularly jay uso sold on the fanatics weekly that was alex breaker mayfield's card sold for eighteen thousand six hundred dollars and then ray phoenix is currently sitting on the fanatics collect it ends on sunday so it'll be the day after this podcast airs and then the the finn balor just sold on instagram for ten thousand so everybody has had their own take on this by now because these sales happen pretty early in the week like i said we're we're taping on thursday now so we have that benefit of hindsight here i think alex was pretty disappointed with the jey uso sale i it's about ten x where his cards have sold i mean he had a three thousand dollar prison black sale from twenty two but this is almost you know eight x seven x what his cards usually sell for tiffany stratton had a ten thousand dollar sale of the liquid gold from royalty but before that she was under ten grand for any of her sales finn balor hasn't ever had a card sell above a thousand dollars as legit publicly and ray phoenix like i don't even know what to say about ray phoenix he's too new to really have any history there but a lot of people were saying like this is really low and i'm like i don't know about that but tiffany stratton i think was the outlier here being lower than i think it probably should have gone for but jay uso at eighteen thousand twenty thousand dollars like that's pretty much where i expected it to go right yeah okay so obviously this has been something a lot of people have been discussing everywhere and i'm excited to finally dive in and talk about this being that obviously i own one i i wanna put a consideration here so me getting that orton had more to mean to me than the card and obviously oh i didn't know i was going up against an nba champion in crown teague towns and bidding right so that was the first true one to sell on the market so i think people are like oh well that's there that's two people going it was basically two people going head to head for that card and one outbid the other one so could that orton gone for twenty twenty five which is probably what it's truly honestly worth should've but take into consideration who it is so when i see this jay sale jay uso yes the patch is very significant his first ever world championship winning at mania hundred percent beats gunther but at the end of the day let's be honest jay uso's peaked out i mean i think he's peaked out with his career i think that that was an opportunity they strapped a rocket on his back as triple h said yeah that rocket botched multiple times but again two weeks is their own so i think this jay uso went about what it probably could have capped out at yes i agree phoenix too early to tell doesn't end till sunday but you gotta think common guys are gonna be bringing in that three to seven k range i would guess more the lesser tier i'm guessing we don't know this is still new and then finn balor doing ten k some say undersold some say just right some say oversold i think it was sold at the right price we know that drew mcintyre did ten k privately before the orton sold we know that jay carrgil did seven k which people agreed that was grossly undervalued i think finn for what you put best his cards out there i mean finn's in his forties i don't know if he's gonna get into our world championship shot but i think that is spot on then we get to tiffy i think the tiffy under went way under i think that the person who owned it hit in a break for whatever the tiffy spot was hundred percent looking to get the fast cash and couldn't wait i think this card should've went to auction somewhere but that person clearly was ready to cash out i think this thing should've went probably about what the buy now was lower to so it was lower from sixty to fifty i believe to thirty five and when it got to thirty five is when the offers came in thirty five it could have been hit but i think it was one of those things where unless you were following it you didn't know unless you got alerted i think tiffy should have done in the thirties whoever bought this and we know who bought it i think they got a great buy i think they got it honestly penny a steal for how significant that card is for who she is for where she's going in her career so out of all these tiffy to me under went under but the seller was clearly ready to sell and would have cash out and motivated to sell so again we don't know financially what that seller was what they were going through they may have needed the money for all we know but i think if there was patience with it would've got in the right hands we might have seen this card go higher than the orton maybe but congratulations to the person who bought it but i think when we go back to the other ones i think we're spot on i i i i and you said alex is disappointed i mean i think it's where it need to be i didn't see this going over twenty you know i think if finn went to auction i don't know how much more of a ten it would have gone i i i predicted it was gonna go like twenty two five i think last week not to i mean like in the grand scheme of things it's like you know twenty percent ten fifteen percent off i i like you take a risk every time you send it to auction and you do good on alex for being confident to put that public comp out there like i think the tiffy sale hurt his auction because it ended literally like an hour or two before it ended or whatever it was but yeah man like jay has reached the peak of his career like nothing will ever be what he did at that wrestlemania so i don't think that they even if they come back with another wrestlemania relic here for him next year i think it goes half of this maybe and like i think finn balor is never gonna be the guy i mean as much as he was cool and i loved finn balor back in the day when he was the demon mhmm coming up on nxt when he still had a lot of career ahead of him i think finn balor's likely peaked out neil probably doesn't like to hear that but like finn's a cool character but he's not the guy that's gonna drive humongous sales giving finn a five figure sale is a huge deal i i think giving ray phoenix yes giving go ahead phoenix sorry yeah i said giving ray phoenix like close to a five figure sale is absolutely ridiculous given where he is on tv right there are people ivar is like what three k sold for three k or whatever it was spot bottom that's coming spot that's a huge sale for iron sale but i think when you put that for and again i didn't know that until you told me that now and i think my guesstimate is three to seven k on the the more lesser tier wrestlers yeah i i think finn has one more championship run-in him i think that they're going to find that opportunity for him i think he's he's i hope so he deserves it i mean as much as i give neil crap finn bowler is a phenomenal wrestler he is he's really good he he's really good and when he is the demon there's like nothing like it it's it's amazing so yep but yeah i i think at the end of the day i think yeah i could see the tiffany hurt jay maybe that night maybe it it did go pretty viral pretty quick the sale was kinda like wildfire once people knew it sold it was it was it was boom it went fast yeah so but at the end of the day i i think these cards are incredible i think they're truly a piece of wrestling history not just wrestling card history but true wrestling history i think they're very significant i know it's being first year and i think the patches will base off what they did at that mania to what their value is going forward in future ones because we know we're getting them in summerslam as well yeah and and so there's there's two things i wanna end on here and then i wanna get into a topic one i don't think this hurts john cena number two i don't think this hurts rhea ripley and i think the last piece of that is i think randy orton was an outlier you've admitted to that why it had such a huge personal connection to you like everybody needs to understand two well funded bidders going against each other as ryan just explained one's an nba champion one is one owner of one of the largest card shops in the nation like you guys are on a different tier than the traditional collector theoretically most of these are not going to the collectors that usually chase these guys like you know it's not like i would pay sixty thousand dollars to go buy becky lynch as much as i would love to like those cards are probably attracted to a specific market space that really doesn't exist outside of these cards and so i think if you look at randy orton as an outlier somebody had a personal connection to that card like ryan did signed in his store during the biggest night in his store's history like all like maybe not sales wise but in terms of personal like those drive people to make decisions like ryan made and rightfully so he will cherish that card forever i think to use that as the benchmark is is a tough is tough for most people to grasp because they may not be familiar with your story even though you had your fifteen minutes of fame they may just see that sale and then see tiffy went for half of that despite being a younger more sort of potential focused wrestler i just i'm not ready to close the book on wrestlemania patches just because tiffany stratton sold a twenty two k to a motivated seller right yeah no and i mean like you said what the ord meant to me it's like i kept that hush that story hush it was pretty much people that i was close to knew that it happened and i also kept the hush about me going after it and my intentions because i didn't want people to know what that meant to me until after that i acquired it so sure i mean did i overpay absolutely i know this i don't care i'm happy i have it it is the most important randy card orton card in my collection it brought me an opportunity to to meet orton and it it just it ties so much into that moment and even the aftermath of when he and i reconnected talking about the card those are moments like that that just mean more to me than the actual money and overpaying for the card absolutely and i think when the cena does sell i mean at the end of the day to me randy orton is the goat he is the greatest of all time again me being a fan and a a wrestling guy but if cena does do one hundred one hundred and fifty thousand dollars then orton doesn't look like i'm overbidding at that point does it really i mean if cena's gotta go to a public auction whoever pulls this send it to fanatics to golden send it somewhere towards gonna get the right eyes and the right amount of people bidding on it because that card needs all the exposure it's gonna get yeah and i i i can't really add much more to that i think that's exactly how i feel what i do wanna cover is rather than us saying don't sell your card lower like i wanna go through this discussion quickly here because if you're following along with us on patreon there's six steps listed here and this is my guide with ryan's feedback to selling a high value wrestling card some of these things are gonna apply to selling a high value card some of these are gonna apply to selling a wrestling card some of these are only gonna apply to selling a high value wrestling card so keep that in mind these are somewhat universal but somewhat niche in a in a lot of ways some of these steps should be table stakes for everybody but if you pull a big card we're talking thousand five thousand ten thousand dollars and there's a few of them now like every set has a card from wrestling that likely is in that five thousand dollar range which historically puts it in the upper one percent of like wrestling card sales number one and we'll go through these individually step one comp your card like and there is always a comp and i wanna say that even though wrestling data is limited and it's hard publicly to to do this it's an art form comping cards find a way to comp your card ask for help look on card ladder go through sales history comparative wrestlers comparative sales in other sports whatever you need you have to get the number that you are comfortable with agree mhmm yep okay number two you have to find your audience now this is where i think you and i have agreed considerably is that as you get into the five thousand ten thousand dollar range wrestling cards how many buyers you think exist in that platform not as not that much not as much as they are in sports cards that's for damn sure yeah and that's where i think if you start getting offers from the people that represent that audience like it's likely they are at or near the top now in these wrestlemania patch autographs where there is some crossover appeal there's public eyes on it there's wrestler eyes on it like all of those other things maybe that adjusts a little bit but i think this is where a lot of people tend to lose the plot a little bit too they get that audience and they think this audience is ten fifteen twenty people when you're up that high i think it's probably under five yeah agreed i agree i i think it it's a it's very low number i don't know the exact but yes it's very short very short printed i guess you should say yeah depend like and that's and somebody said to me like i bought this card because i knew you would want it that that was told to me this week and i'm like okay here's my offer and they said no i don't want that offer i'm like you just said like i am the person to get this offer from i'm giving you what i what is generally acceptable as the worth of that card and you're saying no recognize who your audience is now i'm not the only becky collector i'm not the only high end becky collector i all those things are true but recognize who your audience is i think that's a key thing that people can lose the plot on especially if they have a high value card they're thinking about this like oh my god this is worth twenty thousand dollars oh this is and and then somebody gives them an offer of five and they're like i can't take that my number is too high for that well that goes back to step one k number three pick your platform you were just talking about sena and what you were thinking about with sena and all that stuff platform of sale is humongous in any sport in wrestling especially putting in a a high value wrestling card on a platform depends on a number of choices but it could impact the eventual final sale yes or no yes you're a hundred percent spot on there yes so alex chose to put his card on fanatics collect which i think a lot of people were saying was the wrong choice i don't really have anything either way i said really there's only five to ten people that are gonna buy and the chance that some of them didn't see it on fanatics live is very low like everybody saw card yes and we were promoting it and fanatics promoted it too multiple times everybody who needed to see that card saw that card the bid ended where it ended but putting it on ebay you have factors of route if we're gonna run an auction on ebay you said it too when randy was was going there's chance for manipulation there's all these other things same on other platforms too try social media i i curated a list of wrestling card pcs you pull one of those super factors or whatever go on that list find the people that collect that person go to that platform and get in touch with them their contact information is on the list really important stuff like if you can pick your right platform you may get more money than you expect and if you get your number take it like there's like bird in hand versus two in the bush is always the thing my dad used to say he grew he was born in the fifties so that goes to show you but like if you get your number take the offer like just why are you why are you trying to get more by going to this auction platform unless you feel like you've under comped your card so again back to step one ask for help get all that information ahead of time then number four choose your tool set and your or your partner so things like we talked about mc sports cards one of the sponsors of wrestling card takeover maybe using a consignor will get you more attention because guess who does a lot of marketing those people yep the bigger sellers in ebay like your dc your mc all those top sellers basically yes they're gonna promote it and they obviously have the following for it so going there with bigger ticket items is key i think to your point i think the orton should've went to fanatics i think it would've honestly done more i think there's ways that fanatics if you have a rep and you have let's just say items in your port you got collateral to say hey how much can i bid on this and can i sell the i think there's opportunities there when you go so i i really think back to the j uso it was put on the right platform in my opinion to make that sale i don't think it would have garnished what it got on ebay and it may not have got may have been terrorists as you said if it went to ebay so i think you know using those as examples is huge to know like i i think sometimes they're better off going to i think there's a lot of times things are better to go to ebay yeah and like this is layers to an onion so and this is just my opinion on this like don't take this as the bible but like i think it's it's really important to say like if i choose this versus this there could be pricing impact to the way that my final value eventually comes into my hands that includes things like public sales on the platform are on a platform like fanatics and ebay are going to be everywhere so you better be ready to deal with the fallout if something doesn't go your way or goes above what it was your way because then you may be oh this guy doesn't know what he's doing or this guy wow what a what an awesome sale you have to be ready to deal with that and i think like private sales especially in wrestling cards you and i have both engaged in them more than anybody in the recent times with the chrome sets and the royalty sets and everything coming out like there are people who will give you the best price and you can avoid the fees i'm not gonna say what else you can avoid because i might get in trouble but like you know like things like that factor into a decision where these are reported they're you're gonna get a ten ninety nine if you sell on some of these platforms so just be aware of that too there's there's give and take to everything then you gotta choose a format that's step five so are you doing an auction like we saw with jay uso good on alex for putting it on the community to prop him up but maybe he didn't feel it went his way maybe if he had chosen the buy it now format things could have gone different we saw what happened with tiffany stratton according to the seller he didn't get any offers so when you choose your format you better choose the right price now this is where that comp your card step becomes that's why i put it at step one because you gotta find your number and find it fast if this is something you have to sell now and if you put that buy it now price three x four x you scare away a lot of people you you put it under point five x point two five x in some of these cases it sells right away and you feel so you really have to find that middle ground where it's not too high but not too low and that's where the art form comes in and that's where asking for help becomes really important yep lastly go ahead anything to add there no no not really no i mean i think that's a case of point of the tiffy i think it just was too high to begin with and scared a lot of people off and i think by the time it got lowered it was just i think they missed the opportunity on capitalizing more so i feel like the tifi should've went to a auction platform but clearly seller wanted money wanted to cash out therefore that's why we saw what it went for yes yeah and then lastly i think just the final step here which i think alex did a ton of i don't think this tiffany stratton guy did any of which is promote your listing so like we all have social media if you're not on social media like you you're gonna have a negative time you're gonna have a bad time because social media is where the card business happens and if you're selling a high value card you need to be on social media like it's if you don't promote it on instagram you don't promote it on twitter you don't promote it through the the the consignors whatever it's not gonna get the level of eyes especially if you're selling it from an account that only has a hundred or a hundred and fifty feedback like those are really important things you've gotta get the word out there and listen steve and i try and post every big card that we can but we don't tell people oh it's this price it's going here go find this because like i'm not gonna help you make this sale i just wanna make sure the community is aware that it's out there like i it's just not my role as a educator informer whatever to to get somebody a card sold unless they're coming to me with a personal relationship and saying hey gelman can you help me here my answer is almost a hundred percent yes like i will help you if you ask but you've gotta ask you gotta ask so i think like that's that's where the relationship aspect of this is i think to to close this out this step process your reputation is everything and if you have a negative reputation as a buyer or a seller your ability to sell a high value wrestling card is going to be diminished if you have a good reputation as a buyer or seller the likelihood that you can get these things sold at the price that you need to is gonna be higher and i think when you put it to auction maybe that's removed a little bit because it's more less pub it's like there's no face attached to an auction but if you really want the top value to your card you've gotta have that reputation piece in place especially to build a trusted sale for a five thousand dollar card that's a lot of money to send via paypal to somebody you've never met before so like just reputation is everything especially in a small community and it's everything is visible yeah i like this this is a great step process for everybody and and something yeah i like this patience keyword the keyword here is patience when you get into the high value sale and brian thz sports cards one of our sponsors for wrestling card takeover was on stacking slabs earlier this week and he talked about shop the card like shop the card he's not wrong he does this a lot yes he does he's very good at it and that episode that brian was on go listen to it because it's a great episode he talks a lot about making deals and wrestling cards patience is key because it gives you the opportunity to let things develop if you're just dropping price and dropping price and dropping price that's very visible people are gonna see that and i think the other aspect of this is the idea that a card is desirable makes it more valuable and this is the group think sort of way of the hobby if i see other people want a card i want that card too it's just the way people are in this hobby it's sad but it is what it is mhmm if i see less people want this card this guy's not getting offers then i want that card less because i see it's not as desirable as i may as that as that person may have thought right mhmm yeah i keyword is patience i've learned that a long time ago and and to really capitalize and and get your top dollar i mean i mean what was it that goldberg hogan he had for quite some time and next thing you know he sold it i mean it just it's all it takes is one person at least one person it's one person it's all it takes but just be patient and if you feel like you're gonna get your number then eventually it's not astronomically insane you might eventually get that number if you just be patient yeah but again like that's a really key moment here is like you might get it you might get your number you just gotta be patient now if you're a motivated seller i gotta sell this right now you are likely chopping ten to twenty percent off of your capabilities if you have more ability to sit there and let it develop i mean people need money they're gonna have to arrange funds sell cards they're gonna have to fund their purchase so you can't just expect that somebody's just gonna be able to drop twenty five thousand dollars in one fell swoop without making some arrangements first like you have to give people that time and doing all of this in a week dropping it four times like tiffy did i don't know if that was the right call for that reason maybe i don't have time to go to the wharf brett talked about buying the john cena superfractor today on stacking slabs like he had to go to fund your cards because he wanted to use the equity in his collection people do that all the time you do that mhmm absolutely yeah with mc i send a lot of stuff to use that and i build up my money and then i go buy cards i want it's basically what i do yeah i got this question on twitter i wanna close it out by the mayor pete at the mayor pete on twitter asked given my recent acquisition of a one of one superstar who is off tv right now can you also cover the greater raw factors for one on ones and other rare cards in selling in this type of a space is it required to grade a card for me honestly no it's it's you as a collector if that's what you're wanting to do if you wanna preserve it for me it's creating a lot of my stuff that i'm keeping if we're talking collecting standpoint to make my family's life easier if something would happen to me and also grading is growing in the wrestling space it's still new but now things have shifted with psa shutting bulk value down for a while so i think we're gonna see less and less wrestling cards graded unless it's on the higher level which is like seventy eighty bucks so i think it's one of those things where you have to decide if you're want to add value i i think if it's a valuable item you should grade it because it's gonna make selling it a lot easier you as a collector you have to decide i don't care to grade my orton because i think just seeing the patch and touching it's really cool to me so i don't think i really need that one in a holder i may change my mind one day but if i'm grading certain things i actually almost grade every super factor i used to say oh you don't need to grade one on ones it does add tremendous value if it tends significantly so yes i there's two answers to this based on the approach i think for me it there's a lot of factors pete called out one someone's off tv so clearly like like a bianca belair you have time if you wanna grade it before you sell it if you if you're not motivated to move that card right this second and you know you're gonna sell it not a bad idea especially if it has a chance to ten if you have somebody that is hot right now somebody like chad gable maybe who coming off of that no change sell it asap yeah we wanna sell that asap grading's not your best option right now and i don't think it probably ever will be for speed again in wrestling wrestling is very week to week and you know it's not and the season is year long so lot of stuff going on i don't know if grading is really the the best opportunity there but if it's a one zero one it's a high value card the auction houses won't accept it unless it's graded or at least reviewed that's what happened with jay uso and tiffany stratton the super factor that alex sold stone cold steve austin like all of those cards are not graded by cgc they're just authenticated so you can't submit a card to auction without it being in some sort of holder but it's this isn't a holder in in this case it's a sleeve with a sticker on it but like recognize that grading does make things easier it takes a lot of the risk out of it too from condition standpoint you can't say oh this card is you know what you promised me was a nine and actually came back a five like you you save yourself that burden and if it's unnumbered the switcheroo deal where people take in unnumbered cards swap it and return it that's not something that's gonna happen either so alright should move on to some big sales that was a lot yeah i feel like we're catching up for two weeks of me being called but you guys had a show last week so i know yeah you know i i just wanted to cover that because like this is of all the questions i get on instagram number one question is like what is this worth or how do i sell this or who should i sell this to yep like that segment was meant to help a lot of people i don't know how many are gonna actually hear it but or need it people listen to the a podcast network or like stacking slabs probably a little bit further down the rabbit hole than most people in this hobby but if you go on to like the facebook groups and stuff like that there's a lot of people who need this help i hope they listen i hope people stumble upon this and and hear that because comping cards is really hard like it's probably the hardest thing for a new collector to do buying and selling based on those comps is even harder so hopefully that at least gives somebody a standpoint of like oh okay these are the types of things i need to consider yeah so big sales for the week there was a a combat sports auction at golden that ended there's a few sales in there that were really big one of them was this one of one black select from twenty twenty two so this is the debut edition of select it's the premier level went at the auction for seventeen thousand eighty dollars on golden psa nine humongous sale i i was not expecting this card to go for that much giant giant price yeah i think this goes with the the panini error and the blacks and being the first year and i mean this is a hundred and almost ten thousand dollars less than the prism went for you know and this image is actually awesome you know so and this is a psa nine as well so yes in landscape if you compare it to other things kai but when you think about it long term i think at the end of the day i think we're all very strong on the panini era and we think that the value is gonna continue to go up as it's been showing so this is another example of what the panini era is doing in the wrestling card space especially once you see some of the if you go on card letter and you search and you look like most of these sales that are trending up are panini sales that have really jumped kabooms downtowns all that stuff we've all talked about ad nauseam this is an eye opening sale i think for me i own a ton of panini cards like i loved that era you love that era we all love that era and people are gonna see this and say wow maybe i need to start thinking about my pc in terms of like what i need to get from that era especially from flawless especially from prism select the big sets this could be eye opening mhmm really interesting sale here this just happened there was a booker t nineteen ninety nine wcw autograph it's the later set because it's the the new wcw logo that was that logo was so weird that one yep yeah but this is one of the rarest in the in the set i think it's there there's not many of these that that are in collections let alone transact publicly someone listed this for six thousand dollars and someone smashed that bin it is very tough to get these cards and especially the rare ones you know hardcore hack the sandman one or whatever some of those really tough ones they go for a ton of money this could have actually been undersold by a little bit so i don't know you're you're a little bit more up to speed these than i am yeah i mean the thing is a lot of these didn't get turned back in and maybe these wrestlers did not sign as much i e booker t because no booker t autograph card should be given six thousand dollars but if you're completing this set which a lot of people build this set this is a very popular historical set that if you're trying to complete because even looking at these autographs this autograph has seen the light it's a little faded i mean the the way they use the ink but but yeah i mean that's insane but again for set collectors i mean you got a lot you know i i don't know how many people build the set but you gotta think at least yeah exactly so somebody who really needed this was not risking it this could be the first one to pop up in years i think it was yeah that's the point so again could have been undersold but that i understand because of how iconic this set is and what it represents yeah there's a few of them that only have had like two or three public sales and they they're much lower than they would go for today so yeah really huge number but i mean it's a psa five maybe but who who cares you got your second fleet man that's just in the day it's from a guy who used to build sets that's that's huge yeah so one of the other cards in that in the fanatics weekly auction where jay uso ended was this stone cold steve austin one zero one it is from the catchphrase set probably my least favorite design in immaculate honestly i'm just not a fan of this design but i just wanna call out like these cards continue to sell for huge money yeah stone cold is a big name i there are not many stone cold cards that sell for this that aren't like black one o ones or super fractures seeing this one sell for almost four thousand dollars is pretty big yeah i was actually watching this on fanatics and i was curious to see what it went for so i think again i i think these are gonna continue to go up and and i mean it's got a flawless esque look to it which is what immaculate was prior to flawless and i love immaculate you and i both love immaculate i get get your point on the set a very small window not a lot of picture there with it and stuff like that but being who it is being what some of his other one o ones have gone for i think this is about what it's training up it keeps training up like we talked about last one we'll talk about here this is the twenty twenty two gold prism for brock lesnar p bgs eight point five sold via auction went for three thousand three hundred and fifty dollars these golds rarely transact now people are hunt i like there are people building the set the gold set yep brock i someone saw an opportunity i completely understand why i don't know why it's in a bgs holder but who knows it's weird things happen and a bgs eight point five nonetheless so it's like a psa seven or a six or something but like honestly this card is so interesting to see what these end up selling for his black would have won i think transacted twenty twenty three or twenty four for like eight grand so you we're almost at half of that for this gold yeah i think if they put that black up again it's probably ten thousand plus at this point right oh easily at this point especially with this sale right here i mean this is just i i wonder what these were going for a year or two ago i mean you gotta remember brock's roller coaster career of in and out in and out we're never seeing brock again with all this vince mcmahon stuff but this is just to me blows my mind of a sale but i do know somebody max schrim who actually built this entire set i know i saw that it's insane he has the entire set of this and it's insane i still am in the hunt for the orton gold to be honest with you i i have the gold shimmer to three i have the black one zero one but i don't have the gold so but i i don't care if i complete it i mean i'd like to get one one day but i'm not gonna overpay godly to get one so i'm i'm just saying like if you are sitting on a treasure trove of panini cards keep sitting on it man like these cards like there was a podcast i was listening to where they were talking about like let's go ten years into the future like this was a three year period if you go multiples of that period into the future think about how people are gonna look back on this time frame when the cards never sell wrestling cards wrestling collectors lock this shit up and like it's just gonna keep going and keep going even if the market starts trending the opposite direction because something happens in the greater scheme of things these are the types of cards the prisms the flawless the good stuff from immaculate those stuff doesn't change hands and it's gonna only continue to be desirable alright we are just about a month away from the national guys ryan and i and neil spent what like two hours on the phone today and or this week trying to build yeah we put a lot of work into this guys this party is going to be so much fun i cannot wait for everybody to join us if you are going to join us and you want to be a part of this event you just made the list we gotta get we gotta get people to understand just how crazy this is gonna be we just ordered all the shirts we just ordered all the signage we're gonna do a ton of giveaways we've got awesome sponsors acknowledge our sponsors this is gonna be so much fun guys email book to last podcast at gmail dot com i also wanted to note here something as well i talked to swish at blez they actually have a special code for anybody on blez online that wants to go and buy their first pack use code takeover twenty and you'll get twenty percent off your first pack on blez online they're gonna be doing some more stuff as we get closer to this party and as we get into the party situation here can't like awesome awesome stuff check out blez online if you are looking for breaks of cosmic and everything that we've talked about on this podcast go check out card shop live they do ton of breaks every night go check out stephanie she's running disney stuff too so if you're into that go check out her stuff wax culture awesome guys doing tons of breaks royalty included card vault i was just there at the mall of america can i tell you my kids absolutely love that mall of america card vault store i ripped a box of cosmic there and pulled a ray phoenix autograph or something and they ripped some pokemon cards card vault's a cool place like go check them out yeah we've i've been to the chicago one the vegas one and still need to get to st louis when i also get downtown much enough but i won't be able to check it out there you would think i'd get time in the mall of america i don't think we have time this week but yeah they they have some really cool shops i really do shout out to brian from tha sportscards mc sportscards as well we've talked about them on this podcast chad at sportscard junction's gonna have an insane setup at the national he's talked about it on this podcast before and bcw supplies if you need holders or anything for all the cards that you're ripping and breaking check out their stuff it's great quality stuff and then lastly we've talked a lot about card ladder they are huge supporters of everything hobby wide make sure you check them out but let us know you're coming this is gonna be a good time yeah no thank you again to all our sponsors i don't think we can reiterate that enough this wouldn't be possible with all of them and all the work that adam and brett have done and and obviously neil now stepping into the role we we got a lot under took this week we've got we're gonna give give away shirts i've got stickers in line but again we're we're gonna be doing a lot of fun stuff at this event it's gonna be that friday night i'm excited for it and please email us at book glass podcast at gmail dot com if you plan to come try to get a better idea of head count i know the room can hold three fifty we would love to see it over full i mean not crazy over full but we'd love to see all all this come together i think this is gonna be an amazing night maybe arguably the greatest wrestling card night in history in one room together so make sure you're coming to check it out it will be it will be guarantee look at the confidence it will be yes love it so so again thank you to sponsors we're getting everything going the the ball is rolling with everything we're doing on the back end it's gonna be fun i cannot wait i i've gotta get ready for the national as well but this is another added element that i'm excited to be a part of yeah so friday july thirty first embassy suites starts at six pm get there early we're gonna have a great time it's gonna be great yep alright last thing of the podcast we're finally at the end this was this was a lot i wanna talk you'd mentioned universe early on and i said you were stealing thunder this is why our title match topic are people correctly valuing the event worn relic cards that are included in universe and royalty and so on and so forth exalted and if tops eventually switches to player worn which i think is probably going to happen what does the future markets hold for this event worn stuff versus like where it is right now yeah the thing is this is always a topic of discussion in the sports card world outside of wrestling it's educating and making sure that the collector knows the difference between game use player worn this item has nothing to do with anything and i i think at times people see a cool patch and like oh that's sick and they pay a crazy number and that patch has nothing to do with anything it's basically a manufactured patch as far as i see it even though it's cut from a jersey i think long term they're gonna be in demand there's gonna be value there it's just gonna be the educating that know hey that these were event used from this year's universe and also this year's royalty whereas we know universe this year will not be event used we assume royalty would be we assume that they're gonna save all the dynasty event used for premium stuff like dynasty and royalty but flawless brings big money for the starz watches and they're nothing to do with anything however if you take starz watch into account in other sports that's always been a popular set so i i think long term it's going to be there i think right now it's flying under the radar because people just aren't really understanding the difference between this item as no nothing specific versus event used but the event used if you go into other sports is a huge deal when it's game used it is a massive deal and it's continuously growing like with babe ruth relics with all time greats with michael jordan we're seeing lebron james jerseys that used to be ten fifteen twenty bucks they're now minimum a hundred dollars at this point because of the educating and that people are being aware of like this was game used this was worn in specific something that's big that to a collector gets you closer to the game and a wrestling gets you closer to the event the match you know i i i gotta think there's just so much value in these long term yeah and royalty has dipped especially the relic cards universe has dipped because it's settled like market settles is it does that it happens it's not because the set is bad it's because this is what happens with every single set i wanna call attention to a couple of things number one we were gonna talk about it on a previous podcast the one of one hulk hogan my favorite person his dual relic one of one sold from royal from royalty sold for like twenty five hundred bucks i can't remember there ever being in the modern era at least maybe earlier on in the flir era and some of the other things there might have been i can't remember the last time there was like an event more in hulk hogan anything and like stone cold steve austin his one of one relic dual relic from royalties sold for like a thousand bucks nine hundred bucks like i i don't think people are gonna value these correctly until they see that there's an alternative that is an event war so i think to your point as these things grow beyond just hey we're gonna put it in royalty and dynasty the only products out there that'll have this stuff if that eventually ends up being the strategy i i think these are flying under the radar too these might be the last time they're accessible in this respect and if those are the products not everybody can buy a box of dynasty not everybody can buy a box of royalty so if you wanna go spend two hundred bucks to get an event worn stuff universe is there right now curious if that changes once people see next year i think from the previews they don't say event worn on the preview cards so i don't know man i think this is an interesting sort of situation that many collectors may not be considering yeah it's funny you mentioned hogan and and matt hughes event hughes whatever i've been buying the there's a hulk hogan leaf magnificence card magnificence from this past year where it's a jumbo swatch and the autograph is hulk hogan thunder lips yeah thunder lips it's match used and i've been and the the swatch is just as big as a star swatch in flawless which is nothing new with anything yes flawless is on card yes it's flawless but but i've been buying these for six hundred bucks they're all one on ones and i think leaf made like twenty that's awesome total but i feel like i've been buying them up and they've been servicing them i'm like this is a no brainer to me like this is hogan's done we know there's still stickers out there but you're getting a hogan autograph and inscription with it and o i e it's match used relic this is something he wore for six hundred dollars but if you go to flawless what are you paying now minimum three grand for a flawless star swap maybe twenty e o minimum i get i get it's on card and it's flawless hundred percent but there's really nothing with licensing difference between leaf and flawless there's no wrestling licensing really i mean he could still write hulk hogan you know so to me it's like i'm educated enough to go i think these are a good buy i think i wanna buy well now everybody knows well that's why i'm using an example if you now if you wanna go get one i just educated you if you see one surface go buy it i just had one delivered from australia i bought the other day so i think i paid like six hundred bucks a piece for these and just to rip the boxes four hundred and fifty bucks for one card so i mean if i were to pull that i'd be thrilled you know but i think these long term have great value and i think that goes to the event used match worn stuff long term will have value when more people are educated yeah and as they call out more of the dates on the back what we saw with royalty on some of the cards when they could identify it they did mhmm and when they could identify in dynasty i assume they're gonna do the same thing like i've seen some of the stuff that's coming it's insane but i think even beyond that people are like oh i don't wanna buy i don't wanna pay two hundred and fifty bucks for this roman reigns out of royalty autograph relic jumbo relic it's one color but roman reigns does not have a ton of like match worn stuff to go around he is notorious for keeping stuff close to the vest the shield vest if you will but like i think it's it's really important to like consider this and i don't think collectors really truly get like how hard it is to chase down event worn stuff for wrestling there's a huge like trading community everything around this i own one of the becky lynch leather jackets that she wore to on smackdown in twenty nineteen it's one of my prized possessions i own an nxt shirt she wore on a broadcast another one of my prized possessions these things are really rare i am the top collector in a lot of these areas i only have two of these things like imagine the people out there who just have the opportunity for two hundred bucks a box to buy this event worn stuff next year i don't know if that's gonna be the same thing it could be more mat relics it could be more unaffiliated relics you never know so i think that was why i wanted to call attention to it i think it's a cool topic yep alright so that's the end for this week sorry for badgering people with our our our stuff here but i think it's like a lot of these these discussions are are key for people to make considerations especially on the big sales i hope that was helpful but yeah i mean like just stay stay like stay true to yourself i think that's a key thing here too is like don't overextend yourself because somebody else is doing something that you feel is the right move do what makes sense for you and this podcast is really just ryan and i's opinion on everything and i know that that doesn't always sit well with people but it is something where we've created this platform to share these opinions just because we love talking about wrestling cards but maybe other people have different ones go listen to those stuff go check those podcasts out too like there's a lot of opinion out there now so next week we'll probably talk a little bit more about stadium club coming out maybe a little bit more as summerslam develops national is bearing down on us so yeah it's gonna be a lot of fun stuff coming in the next few weeks but it was good to get all of this out another hour and a half episode after last week's hour and a half episode so a lot of lot of stuff going down thank you for first taking the time ryan oh always always always i'll see you here in a couple days my friend in person yeah i can't wait that's gonna be first i've seen you in person since what national last year yeah yeah it's been it's been now two ago two years it's been two years since i've dang i wasn't even in chicago last year yeah that's right been a couple years since i've seen no i saw you well i came to minnesota one time and that might have been before the nash i can't remember jesus no that was apt that was apt it's been like a year or so yeah been like a year or so so yeah i will see you couple days you and your family i'm excited to be up there sports cards are the shout out but yeah we're gonna probably be covering a lot of the national coming up with the rest of car takeover it's it's on the horizon i think we looked today it's forty two to forty two days away from the national starting when we're recording this so i gotta get my butt in gear with a lot of things but it's good to be back i'll be on next week as well and i should be on the tuesday should be good i'm going on fourth of july trip but i think i'll be there in time to record on a tuesday i'm i'm gonna be we're gonna have baseball tournaments literally every week in july so we might have some fill in guest host yep i i do wanna call out if you are setting up at the national and you have wrestling cards that you're planning on bringing let us know because i am planning on doing an episode here where we highlight all the dealers at the show that have wrestling cards for people to see so if you do have wrestling cards in your plan if if we don't already know you if we know you don't worry about it we'll cover you if you we don't know you we haven't mentioned you before give me a shout out on instagram we wanna add you to the list of people that we're gonna cover on this episode so just i wanted to shout that out i forgot but other than that we will we'll see you next week big go see you later