what is going on everybody welcome to episode twenty three of book to last hey wait a minute you don't you're not ryan we don't that i wish i was ryan right now that's for sure where's ryan no oh my god you look like brett mcgrath of stacking slabs i'm sure you know we're sitting here we're gonna spend however long we take to talk about wrestling cards but ryan is you know enjoying a much needed vacation in the nice climate somewhere so he's probably having a drink and we're talking cards but he'll be back next week so i'm just trying to fill in for him big shoes to take you got you got like i think when you have a weekly podcast and you like we you we all have lives we all wanna like enjoy our existence on this planet take some vacation time you start to realize like oh yeah we gotta figure out like how we're gonna fill these these weeks in because i i had some work trips ryan had some vacations and we have the national coming up like who knows what we're gonna do that that week so i think like great to have brett on get to finally do another sort of run through of wrestling cards with brett sorry ryan can't be here greatly missed we'll have him back next week but in the meantime we're we're gonna we're gonna continue on with our our parade of wrestling cards here and i think like unlike other unlike other shows we have absolutely nothing to talk about there's nothing going on in wrestling cards no i'm just kidding so we still have a ton to cover and a lot of good stuff to talk about this week brett how beside before we get into this like how how's your week been how's everything going for you like it's it's gotta be leading up to the national leading up to everything coming up this summer it's gotta be crazy for you it is it's wild but it's fun building a business in this space has been incredibly rewarding it consumes a lot of my time which is fun i'm always working on something whether content related or working on you know the potential of working with new partners it's it's endless i've got a family three kids you've got kids ryan has kids we got kids i need this job yeah i need this job so splitting time between the two is primarily what i'm doing but you know i'm a a sicko where i watch a lot of wrestling like my downtime from work which is the hobby and cards is watching wrestling so the other weekend i was or other week i was just like doing an inventory of all the wrestling i watched for the week and it was like counting by the hours and there was like multiple premium live events and it was i think saturday night main event there was an aew show and then all the weekly television and i was like i i watch way too much wrestling but i love it so it's fun to have a little bit of an outlet here to talk about wrestling and cards yeah it's and like my wife used my wife and kids we used to like monday night raw used to be like appointment viewing for our family and she just got it to a point where she's like okay like i can't i can't keep doing this and so she she tagged out and now she like anytime i bring up wrestling she's like okay sounds good you know it's just like the typical stuff and like my kids my youngest is is into it but like none of the other kids really care they all like other stuff now they play roblox on their ipads and that's basically it and so coming on here and talking about this for an hour a week is like my you know it's it's like it builds up and then you just just unleash everything in one you know hour here so i'm totally with you we're we'll start off with the opening pyro as usual we've got an awesome sort of segment we'll we'll introduce here in a minute brett had some hot topics he wanted to talk about i've got some hot topics i'll talk about we'll come off the top rope with those then we'll get into the sales and our weekly title match so let's let's talk for a little bit about king of the ring and queen of the ring because i have not been a fan of this and i'm it's not necessarily i haven't been a fan of the wrestling i've i've just i don't like the setup here and i don't like the people in this tournament way that they're booked it just it doesn't feel like a typical king of the ring and a queen of the ring it feels like a scramble and considering you're setting main events for summerslam in my home city you're coming to my area like i feel like they owe us a little bit better of an explanation here so like right now the the the semifinal match for one of the semifinal matches for the men had been set i i sent brett sent brett a meme of a coughing baby versus a hydrogen bomb which is oba femi versus dominic mysterio which they tried to set up on raw this past monday and i like oba's amazing like this crowd literally cannot get enough of him european crowds make everything better and it was just an awesome segment and i love dominic mysterio trying to like play off of it but you know that match again are are you putting oba in the finals where he goes to night of champions and wrestles whoever comes off the other side of it and then you have brock lesnar interfere and oba loses he takes another loss we talked about this last week i don't know man like the the men's side of this just makes me upset just because oba should absolutely be the be the winner of king of the ring without even a question and now i gotta figure out how brock lesnar fits into this yeah i think you know that opening for raw seeing oba come out the aura the superstardom the collectability all of the things and i obviously listened to you guys talk last week and it was so perfect at wrestlemania but brock is back in the picture which complicates all of this and now i'm looking at it and looking at his obafemi obviously deserves to run rampant and win this thing but i i'm not one who looks at the the vegas odds but i will not be picking obafemi based on what's happening we're just and that stinks just waiting for the inevitable brock lesnar run-in whether it's in the semis or in the the the final match so yeah i'm kinda with you it's it's lost its luster a bit for me so i think like just because i believe obafemi is likely gonna win next week versus dominik mysterio it's possible he they pull the trigger on the on the brock side the next week but i i i don't see that happening until actual pay brock goes to saudi arabia every time mhmm so like i feel like the the hater of the year award will go to brock lesnar flying all the way to saudi arabia just to interfere in this match so that means i don't think jevon evans although he's awesome and although he's amazing is gonna win the semifinal match versus who's in the bottom bracket for the men so that is likely going to be jay uso who is one of roman's lackeys right now and la knight so you either have obafemi winning this or you have jay uso or la knight winning it because i don't think royce keys or finn balor is ready for this a summerslam match with roman reigns it could be dominic mysterio setting up triple mania with el grande americano for the for the mega title but man i don't think the winners have been any less clear in this because like what do you do like this is you've booked yourself into a corner here and for the collectors out there who are praying for obafemi to win a title here and dethrone roman reigns like i cannot think of a better opportunity had they booked this correctly than obafemi going into summerslam and wrestling roman reigns now maybe they saved that for wrestlemania but that's in saudi arabia this year so like it's not gonna be the coronation that it usually is right yeah i i i wonder what i'm what i wonder during these circumstances and i have these questions that i ask myself on should i just be patient should i be more patient and let the whole thing play through and i try to map this to cards and collecting and it's like does does this sort of booking help or hurt collectability of a guy like obafemi who's on a rocket ship right now so those are the things i try to reason and ration with myself as i see these things play out in real time and i don't know like i'm not sure right now outside of you know v one bloodline storytelling if this administration of creative and booking can get credit to for me to just let everything play itself out so i i watch no matter what if i don't like it i watch exactly i'm i'm gonna always be here but i'm i'm interested in like the impact on cards specifically with obafemi because you have literally the perfect introduction into the main roster perfect booking perfect wrestlemania moment and it just it seems like we should just be off to the races and obafemi all of a sudden enters this like tier one territory more guys like roman reigns sit and i'm just not sure it's going to play out like that because of creative so these are the things i'm constantly thinking about and i i like i ryan and i both sort of thought okay this is an opportunity to pull the trigger on that roman reigns versus seth rollins match now they may have wanted to save that for a while because they don't want seth seth to like lose again after losing the last time and so jevon evans ends up winning the the initial match everybody had rollins picked i actually built this deck over the weekend i literally didn't even consider that it would be anybody but seth rollins and like jomon evans is awesome and that match was awesome but i like he's not a main event talent he's not gonna carry a summerslam match with roman reigns so i'm curious like you know what was that sort of thought process may maybe they have something else going on but it just it puts a lot of pressure on that last match that's happening on smackdown with uso la knight royce keys and finn balor finn balor and roman reigns wrestled before as well finn was the demon i think he went in as the demon that was the one of the only matches he's lost as the demon and it had that freak sort of turnbuckle spot at the end which i thought was pretty interestingly executed given the circumstances but i what i wanna focus on the most is these european crowds were insanely hot and i i think we talked about this a little bit like the global appeal of wwe overall in practice is insane they go to these places tons of people crowds are hot they're so into this we saw it in mexico we saw it in italy we see it in france here but there's not as much access i think to the global collectability yet for wrestling cards maybe in some of those other things where they're buying belts or they're buying shirts or whatever but the cards really haven't made it over shout out to all the breakers and and the and the stores and the collectors over across the the pond because they are rabid collectors and they're awesome but i don't think like we've seen the true impact of global collectability for wrestling cards outside of the us quite yet yeah i think being a fan and being a collector are very very different things and yeah i think fanatics should certainly help with this and i think we have to remember just as wrestling fans you know we're you know on year two of this and it's been very apparent and evident the strategy for fanatics has been alright let's partner with the talent let's try to get placement on shows let's continue to work in the domestic market and really grow that infrastructure which i think they've done a pretty damn good job of and i would imagine obviously i'm not sitting in any of these board meetings but i would imagine like global expansion has gotta be like one of the four big bullets for fanatics when it comes to not just wrestling cards but just trading cards in and of itself and so you mentioned like there is breaking that happens across upon in other places but i think it's very fragmented and i would imagine that fanatics will put some more emphasis and infrastructure on helping that form because i think when there's more more focus and attention in place in those markets they're likely will become more collectors and that takes education and a whole bunch of other things but it's like undeniable like wrestling fans spend money spend a ton of money just go in any of the wwe world stores when there's a big event like they're making millions of dollars of people buying everything but wrestling cards has always been lagging so i also think like too like there's always this like international shipping problem and so like that could be something that gets solved and we've they'd figure it out so i think and it will eventually blossom in other markets i just don't think we're there yet yeah i i have to agree i think like the the appeal of wrestling not only in the uk but in japan in germany in france in spain in in italy like all of these places that wwe has gone for pay per views recently i mean we've seen just how insane these fans are and it's awesome on tv like the the aura of these places is awesome because the crowds make the show and just and when you go to wrestlemania and you see there are people who have traveled thousands and thousands of miles to be at this one show and they're there and they wanna experience the wrestling sort of superstores that are at these pay per views like they go and buy a lot of stuff because for them it's not as accessible as it is here like we can just order off of wwe shop and it shows up at our doorstep a week later like for them it like there's global shipping fanatics handles a lot of that but it's still not like the the cost has to be higher and so doing it this way for them brings nostalgia to the experience and it makes it memorable oh i got this when i was in the us going to wrestlemania or whatever and i think like as long as we can take that experience and sort of apply it to cards and say like you know hey when you are looking at wrestling by the way there's all these other avenues that you can use to show your fandom like i i feel like that's a natural extension and and i've been talking a bit about it on videos for three four years at this point because we've seen how much wwe is committed to going to global audiences for their pay per views and for their shows and they do this european tour every year so hopefully fanatics finds a way to capitalize on that because we we'd love to have more people come into the hobby from outside the us and and change this change the landscape even further to a more positive experience globally for for collectors around the world no doubt and you know one market that does get talked about enough is just like the latin american market like we just we just like there's momentum and energy around wrestling just south of the border and i huge yeah think that is there's a huge opportunity there so i'm excited to see how it all plays out just i totally forgot to cover the women's side of this i just wanna say one thing about this they put liv morgan in a match with three women who absolutely deserve a shot at being the the next person up in this semifinal match you have alexa bliss widely collected huge amounts of fans you have chelsea green who is probably the unchosen sort of like why isn't she getting more time she's been injured she's back this is her first match back and then you have becky lynch who people have said like why aren't becky lynch and liv having a short program while stephanie is hurt bec harris hurt so like then you put your champion in this match which i have said is probably one of the worst indefensible booking decisions i've ever seen one of them was bringing brock lesnar back which may have been out of their control but this is not this is a close number two and they both happened within the last month like i don't know man yeah the the yeah i'm i'm sitting there watching smackdown and rooting my heart out for chelsea green because i i i wanted to see chelsea green get that spot and get that moment and then after it was over with my immediate thoughts were well okay well this has gotta be some sort of vehicle in in order to break up the judgment day or do something judgment day related which i don't know if that's the case but if it is that just sucks to dedicate an entire tournament around and the the the as we're talking about unforgivable things the most unforgivable thing of them all is looking at this list of amazing talent and tiffany stratton is nowhere to be found exactly we mentioned that last week and then she shows up on smackdown not to not to defend the fact that or argue about the fact that she's not in the tournament but then to get involved in a tag match it was just like i'm like what are we doing here like what like tiffany stratton is one of those talents like when she comes on tv and i'm like turn it on my kids shows in the morning and smackdown was on from the night before like my my daughter like stops in her her tracks she's like who is this i wanna watch this and it's i don't know i think everyone on this pod is like closet tiffy time fans and i'm yes yes mad she's not on here like tiffany stratton should have been in liv's spot i i said last week these brackets look like they were built by chatgpt and like chatgpt is like oh the champion needs to be in the tournament because the champion is facing the champion at the end like so somebody was arguing with me on twitter about like because i said there's no reason for liv to be in this tournament and and they said well it's a vehicle to break up the judgment date just like you said i was like does a liv morgan versus raquel rodriguez match need to happen absolutely it does eventually eventually it does is this the setup that you use to get there hell no like are you serious like and this is and wrestling fans love to book tournaments like let's just and tony khan is a perfect example of this yes he loves tournaments because he's a mark and he's a wrestling fan at heart and so every aew show has a tournament of some sort this is why you don't do tournaments because it books you into a corner and you can't get out of it and now the finals being raquel versus liv so now you're doing you're gonna have the finals be raquel versus liv you have to challenge the champion of your brand so then you're doing summerslam liv versus raquel again like i i i don't understand it's it's so dumb but let's not spend twenty more minutes talking about bad booking decisions because i think we're getting down a path but that was my thought can i just one like to end this segment on just a positive note and i wrote this down watching raw last night and i just wanted to highlight it because it wasn't really in the agenda but talking about someone specifically that i think i hope we both can agree on is bringing freshness and energy to wwe television i just wanna take a a minute to recognize pinta and i that match with ray mysterio yeah okay okay so i did the the go down the list on cage match of what his last matches you've got the match with ray which was fantastic you have the fatal four way in the tournament javon evans match ethan page saturday night's main event obviously you have the six pack ladder match at mania he's was great which was great pinta is my favorite television wrestler in the wwe i know i'm gonna get a spectacular match each and every time he's on television and he you know i've been watching pinta a long time i've watched pinta in aew and he was more of a tag guy but every time he was in a singles match or he was in a tag match i was always just like even going to the arena watching was like this guy is incredible but i i feared that it wouldn't translate in wwe because we know what wwe has done with masked wrestlers not named rey mysterio for its history but mhmm man this is exactly how a new talent should be introduced a new just just let pinta cook man let him cook and he has really restored order to that intercontinental title and i just think he should get a ton of credit and also like he's a guy that i think kids collectors he just feels like a guy that is ripe to be collected from this community because he's he's doing all the right things and it feels like he's not like soaring at the level of like obafemi but he's slow and steady elevating his brand and his presence on the main roster i i have been proven wrong a number of times by penta like i i've like i've like oh he they've got him in this weird match versus you know some guy i'm wrong this is gonna be boring but penta is cool like everything about penta is cool his his gear is cool his mask is cool his face paint is cool and like he's overcome sort of like the the language barrier that exists with american audiences just don't really connect with people who can't get on the mic and and cut a promo in wwe that's part of the character package and collectors love him and like i'm actually shocked that there hasn't been like one guy a collector who has like stood out as i'm gonna be the penta guy because he definitely deserves like a major super collector behind him and every match he does i am just shocked at how good it is and they mentioned that match with ray mysterio happened a couple of years ago on lucha underground or something like that where ray and penta had a a match together and it was just as good this was a tv match they didn't get the proper sort of like noncommercial interrupted you know match time but that match was so freaking good and like penta deserves all the credit man like he has really overcome every hurdle that most new wwe talent run into and most people who come in with sort of like a gimmick that doesn't fit the normal wwe mold over he's overcome all of that and you they did that one segment where he like met a kid who loved who wanted his figure and like all the other stuff it's just he's great with kids he's great to be that person to like be a face and and be awesome i i really hope that they run with this and sort of pass the torch from rey mysterio to him even though it doesn't need to be mass wrestler to mass wrestler passing the torch but just the the commonality between those two experiences are is so key great great entrance music as well which is oh yeah half the battle get deaf rebeled yeah yeah yeah alright let's let's move on to some card market high spots and of course into cosmic chrome like it seems every podcast we we get to talk about a new product these days and and and that was after going months without being able to talk about anything and chrome cosmic cosmic chrome chrome cosmic however you wanna say it came out last last week on thursday breaks are flying i've seen most breakers sort of like already out of product like most new breakers no most new breaks are not being posted on fanatics live or on whatnot there's some people that still have some cases but i think this product's been flying like what's have you had a chance to sort of look at some of the cards and see how this is aligning to your own collecting tendencies because i i've spent a lot of time sort of figuring this out for myself and my approach is vastly different than it has been from other products yeah i think it's been different to navigate because of what you suggested in the release cycle we have been flooded you know you go from chrome to all of its variations and sapphire and then royalty and now cosmic it's just exalted like universe it it feels like we got everything at once and so i think because we got everything at once more or less it's made me pick and choose where i wanted to spend my time and energy and effort and a lot of the times for me it's simply what does it look like how does it make me feel is this something i'm interested in and i don't i'm i'm not ready to say that like i think cosmic chrome is a bad product or i don't like the way it looks but it's just not an area of focus for me i think we've talked about this privately but i am such a massive fan of tops chrome and it just came out i i feel like and i feel like i'm still chasing stuff out of that product and i've shown twenty twenty six chrome to football card collectors basketball card collectors and i look at this design this is amazing i'm like it's like my favorite chrome design ever so i've been so infatuated by that that product that everything else like i feel like i'm just like does this measure up to that and if it doesn't i'm just sticking in my way so yeah cosmic chrome when i've seen it in other sports baseball specifically like even though i'm not a baseball collector i've just like thought like yeah this just isn't for me so i haven't taken that like plunge in digging into the checklist understanding the makeup all the things that i usually do when i buy a product i've just kinda sat on the sidelines and watched everything unfold yeah i i think ryan and i are are generally the same way i've done a few breaks i think i get my first cards in today when the mail shows up but i'm a i i have two analogies here you were in vegas for wrestlemania last year or the year before right yes the year before yeah and you know how vegas loves a buffet right and you have huge areas dedicated to this buffet and there's every food you could ever want right and if you were in a restaurant and you're like man i'll just have a new york strip give me some potatoes i'm good but in a buffet you have to go and eat everything because there's so much awesome food in front of you i feel like this year of wrestling cards is a las vegas buffet if i i want like i ate so much chrome i ate so much royalty and i'm a big dude so like you know i thought hey this would be great you know i can just gorge myself on chrome and royalty and then a product like cosmic comes out and i'm just like i don't have any more stomach space left i can't go and eat that piece of chocolate cake or whatever that's probably delicious it's just not me it's not for me and i think the other thing i was gonna say is like in a year where there is three products like last year we had chrome finest and cactus jack releasing kind of the out there product like cactus jack is bad because there's no other options like you either have chrome or finest or cactus jack and that's it there's very few other choices in a year like this you can put out kind of a crazy product like chrome and there's like six other products like still on shelves that if you don't like this you can go and continue to eat the chrome continue to eat royalty you know from that buffet and i think like that's where i was a little bit sort of taking taking steps back from cosmic just because i was you know so full from chrome and i'm still like you said i'm still chasing stuff from royalty i'm still chasing stuff from universe i'm still chasing from all these other sets like i don't need to go super hard on into cosmic because it's just like it'll be here like i can go and collect the planets as they as they come out i don't need to do it the same way like chrome if i don't get that out of two black refractor that pops up on ebay there's only two of them like what am i gonna do so that i didn't go hard on breaks i did a few with people that i like and i i think it's it's something that it doesn't speak to me kinda your point like i i'm not i said on the podcast before like the the nineteen nineties laser tag arena like background for these cards just doesn't really speak to me but i love the planets i think the planets are really cool cards and i can't wait to see them in hand i that was my my main thing but i'm i'm curious like do you have if if you had to target like one card from this product like one set or something did you see any that really sort of were like oh that one's cool not honestly man not particularly and it's not because i think they look terrible it's just more of a representation i just don't think they're for me like when i think about my collection and my like row of wrestling cards i just can't picture a cosmic chrome if i bought something it wouldn't be in there for long and it's just interesting in listening to you talk about it because i view you know you as a very very hardcore collector because you're focused and dedicated on becky lynch so it's just interesting for me to hear that you're kinda like you're full and you're like i don't know like i have to pick and choose my spots and if you i think if like if adam says this because you chase what i view as like almost everything if adam says this like what do other people say about it so like right think that concerns me a little bit just to i know we're might talk about like price and longevity and if cards will hold but it's just i don't know i just don't know if the market has the appetite for this right now maybe if it was released in fall and we hadn't seen a new product in a while maybe people are excited no i'm i might be i might be spending more time with this but it's just there's there's too much right now and and the the the market's still forming in real time yeah and i think like we don't have the the the spread of collectors here the end users that are gonna suck up another three thousand four thousand case release like traditionally tops or panini releases a product that's twenty five hundred cases right chrome there were like i think slab squatch on twitter who does the breakdown every time great account to follow said there were like four thousand hobby cases four thousand breakers delight cases royalty had like three or four thousand cases like there were there's just been a a glut of of wrestling products released inside of that massively packed release calendar so it's not just like oh i can go buy a couple boxes of this and it's loaded because there's only a thousand cases that were made like they made a lot of this product there's only two or three autos per case so like it just kind of like forces people to buy more to get what they want and i just don't see a becky lynch orange refractor out of twenty five though it's very hard to pull because you're only getting two to three autos a case selling for more than an orange refractor autograph from tops chrome hobby and that connection point for wrestling collectors just needs to be there like we we we are not the same market as baseball or football or basketball where you have thousands upon thousands of collectors all hunting for the same stuff does that also mean that cards like the planets are gonna be you know cheaper to acquire maybe in some cases but if there's still only ten pluto cards to go around and people wanna complete their solar systems like those cards are still gonna sell for relative cost to what they would sell for in like a football or basketball so you they may not go for twenty five grand but if you look at the relative cost of the rest of the planet still gonna be a very expensive card so i think like that's where i'm not sure if this is gonna hold up the same way as it would in a basketball or a baseball where you have a lot more people with familiarity around how these products work and you have more people to suck up all of like the excess stuff that falls out the bottom right yeah yeah no doubt i think you have to have a reason to really want it and collect and like you're talking about if it is to complete the solar system that seems like a good reason to collect if or buy in if you collect a specific wrestler who you can do that with that seems like a compelling reason are there any is there anybody i would imagine no but i have not looked myself is there any introductions on this checklist or is it this the same kind of checklist of talent the so i was just gonna talk about that so great segue here so aj lee is a sing is a signer in this product she has not had autographs in a wwe product for what like ten years like she's like this is her first autograph cards so that's big right you pull an aj lee autograph like the the history that she brings to the division of you know the the the lead up to to the diva era and all that other stuff like her she has collectibility beyond just her recent run and so putting her in this product as like a an anchor sort of individual for whatever reason she wasn't in chrome which i thought would have been a massive like autograph to have she had base cards but not autographs like that's a miss but having her in this product like that's big mhmm then you have like you have joe henry and you have like the the the dark state people from nxt sort of saquon sugars and and all those guys joining the roster but they were in other products too so i don't think that there's other than aj lee like there was no one that jumped out to me i was told that maybe jesse ventura has autographs in this which i think is freaking awesome but i haven't actually seen any of them pulled i like the legend autographs are really hard pulls in this so i think like maybe that sort of comes into focus but yeah i don't know if there's really like an anchor being that is like driving this other than aj lee and then you have your usual suspects stone cold roman reigns so on and so forth yeah i almost if if fanatics is going to continue to release at this clip it it almost i almost think that there needs to be you know five and maybe ten is too many but five to ten of those aj lee types of moments baked into the product to get people interested who are chasing whether it's new talent or legend signing something like that to make it a little more interesting yeah i gotta agree i i we're all waiting for danhausen autographs like we're we're waiting for danhausen cards the only other like older wrestler that i think they need to bring back is sable and she's you know she's connected to brock lesnar so like get her to sign some freaking cards when you when you get a deal with her like seriously maybe she doesn't want it but there's gotta be a reason it used to be batista he signed for panini like there's guys out there but i mean like anybody who can sign is signing like i think like that's that's the thing it's like oh you you had a cup of coffee in wwf in nineteen eighty nine here sign some cards like you know i can't i can't imagine what a sable on card super factor auto would do i can't even imagine i i i believe it man like i've said that for i told that to lucas at panini we were at the national and we were talking and i said like you gotta get sable to sign some cards like we're trying we're trying like you know it's it's gonna happen and the rock was obviously one of those people too and they got the rock to do his thing and he signed a bunch of cards and and now his autograph is diluted a little bit but that first sable autograph super factor can you imagine man like that just don't don't have the don't have the wild man mark marrow anywhere near the background yeah where's mark marrow why isn't mark marrow signing cards jeez anyways i think like i just wanna talk a little bit about the planets because they seem to be the big chase for this product and rightfully so you look at other sports like the the planets drive cosmic and for those of you who weren't familiar with baseball and basketball like these cards like the the rarer planets in a psa ten like that's what people do is they they get the planets they get their solar system and they want psa ten versions of all of these cards sometimes for like a pluto there's very limited copies so the psa ten sell for a ton of money i think there was a a wenbanyama that sold for over twenty grand and in pluto lebron james sold for like twenty five grand ohtani goes for like twelve five like it's it's big now wwe won't reach those levels but they could get close on some of them especially with the rare roman reigns or john cena you name it so the sun through the earth are very common and if you watch case breaks there's like two or three of these per case and that's cool i mean like you you want cards like that because they look awesome the sun cards even though they're insanely common compared to other sports like they look really cool and they're very common the mars through jupiter is it's like less common so like you can pull maybe one mars card every case or every other case when you get out into like saturn through neptune like those are very rare and i think one of the we've only had a couple of them sell becky lynch actually just sold for like eight hundred fifty dollars no it was not me that bought it so just keep that in mind and then pluto is like impossible now i was dragged on twitter because pluto is not a planet i didn't design the set so it's it's a it's a it's a solar body it's a dwarf planet let's give pluto some credit here but i think like the values here have been huge we're seeing like there was a becky lynch jupiter that sold for three sixty i i'm i'm these are not me so i'm not buying these cards because i i like i said we've already discussed why dominic mysterio somebody's obviously picking these off because he's had like five or six sales all of them are over like three two hundred dollars you know the the the sun is like fifty to a hundred dollars like they're big numbers for how common some of these inner planets are but it's just it's interesting to sort of see this play out in real time because you see the attraction they have in in baseball and football and basketball right yeah i think back to just i think it's cool that you bake in something in a product that is has collectors having to do something outside of maybe just staring and buying into breaks but just go out and whether it's navigate ebay whether it's you know make deals in groups to try to acquire a complete collection of of something and i think whether it's this or whether it's something else in the future like those types of chases i think are always good to to put into products alright just moving on because we're we're already forty minutes into this and we'd love to chat but you know like we've got a lot still to cover here the jey uso wrestlemania patch put on fanatics collect recently yeet all around good luck to breaker mayfield alex that's his card what if you had to guess the hammer price here it it ends in a few days we'll probably we'll we'll cover it maybe on the next podcast if it's done by then but it was a ten day auction it's already up at like seventy five hundred bucks like curious like this was his very important card he first title first world title won at wrestlemania what would be your your prediction on the hammer price here so i think it's up to eight k i checked this morning so i think it bumped up a little bit it's so hard to tell right we have one anchor one one like strong public anchor at auction which is obviously the orton and i think what you have to consider with this card is what you referred to and i think it might get lost in the shuffle a little bit but you know going from royal rumble last year to in in indianapolis to going to wrestlemania in las vegas i can remember walking into the convention center in indianapolis and it was every other shirt was jay uso's shirt yeah still to this yeah still still to this day the guy sells merch and so there's like this wave of momentum going into the royal rumble for jay uso and i sat there and i was for the gunther match live and i was like what what is this gonna look like and i was pleasantly surprised like i thought it was they did a nice job kind of getting jey uso the title in the way they went about it and i think like that's really important just long term whatever this price goes whatever this goes for i think jay uso will always be an important character of this era and there's not many of these that you could say and we'll see how long this goes but like he won his first title major title wearing this and it's on a card and it's in a chase product and i just think that's really really important so i don't think if i had to guess i don't think like that's i don't think people who will be bidding are connecting all those dots maybe they are or maybe there's people who aren't connecting the dots who if they did connect the dots would be bidding on this higher but just like that story is really important with this card specifically if i had to guess a price it's it's impossible i'll i'll say i'll say twenty two five right now is is would be my that's where i was yeah i was i was in the same spot okay and like i think these cards we need more public comps on these cards just to set the record like straight here like randy orton is not an outlier like randy orton is a huge sale it's sold for a ton of money but i don't think jey uso is gonna sell for a little bit it's gonna sell for comparably to other wrestling cards a huge amount of money so i think like having more wrestling cards clear the twenty k mark which i think this will i think that's good if it gets up into the forty k range like randy orton all bets are off like yeah jay uso is not a widely collected guy even though he's had tag title after tag title now world title intercontinental title like his resume is insane and like he's he's still the one of the most popular wrestlers on the roster and i mentioned what happened with obafemi coming out and commanding an audience for all of last year that was jey uso and wwe pulled the trigger on that and it didn't we it went okay but like it wasn't like jey uso is not a wrestler that has matte classic five star bangers he's a guy that you know is he's an entrance merchant and like you know like that's the that's that's not me saying it that's other people saying it too and i think it's it's fine like that's what people love about wwe is the is the the spectacle of these entrances and the spectacle of the characters and that's jey uso is no better exam there's no better example than jey uso the final note from me on this is just the composition of the card and the photo that is used it is so good it is he's got the title in his hand he's obviously title in the air which you can or hand other hand in the air which you imagine he's eating and it's just a perfect picture of usos so i'm interested to see how this one goes it'll be interesting if it did start to flirt up with the orton card what that would mean for the rest of everything and before we get off of this i have been saying this in my head and i haven't talked what where the hell is the john cena where are we at adam we had four we've had four of these pulled in the last week so we've had gunther tiffany stratton finn balor and i'm forgetting one there was one other one pulled and j jacob fatu where's cena where's punk where's ria like all of these are the big names that people have been looking for they're still ripping these cases on whatnot in fanatics live they're they're all over the place there were a lot of cases and a lot of international cases as well so maybe it's been pulled maybe not i have not seen it i i've been tracking them on twitter follow me at sc uncensored you can get them every time they pulled i posted on twitter but i think like one scene that he's pulled man like i i'm curious what happens to the royalty product because people are literally chasing that card and you know i hope jay sells for a ton like i hope alex gets his his bag because like alex is a good guy and and like this card is awesome the set is awesome like i hope people bid on this but if it gets up into the range of like forty k john cena just became like a two hundred thousand dollar card oh yeah everyone who's breaking the product is doing backflips they're all watching this one so i'll be i'll be watching i'm excited alright so brett you sent over some topics you wanted to discuss i love doing this this is my favorite part of the podcast i love talking about hot topics we'll call this off the top rope brett i'll i'll hand it to you to sort of lead into this and then i'll give mine after you're done let's let's start with you here yeah the first one is big cards locked in collections does this make things more unpredictable when big cards are auctioned this is a topic that is on my mind and i think here's some just things i'll throw out there and adam i'd love your reaction but i just think about how important like price discovery is in so many other categories where cards are maybe more trade trading more often and more fluid and i think the what i my observations with wrestling is that the market loses price discovery a lot based on the dynamics of the market and i think next like the scarcity of these cards when they become available like it becomes very volatile when the cards do become available people are scrambling trying to figure out like what they should bay pay sometimes they underperform sometimes they overperform and then some and then i think the other element of this that we don't talk about enough as like wrestling card collectors is like it's such an emotional category like so many people yes like they don't care they don't look they're collecting their one guy or their one gal and they're like they're just paying whatever and i just find wrestling cards in comparison to like almost any other thing i collect categories to be very emotional so those are just some thoughts as i'm i'm thinking through this one yeah i think like i i don't know anything about locking up cards in a collection i don't know anything about hyperfocus on one player nothing about that but i think like like the lack of public data on wrestling cards and i know drake has harped on this forever and he wants people to report public sales or private sales on in public on card ladder which i think is if you wanna set your price that way and you wanna do that that's more power to you man like steve did that with rhea ripley's that he's bought and now he's sort of like feeling the effects of trying to buy other rhea ripley cards with public comps out there like that's like the unpredictable nature of wrestling cards has made it easier for the the hyper focused collectors to sort of not break the bank when there's public comps out there that might be outliers so i think like yeah like this is very unpredictable we've seen like somebody like i think we've mentioned before like there was a charlotte flair super fracture with an inscription that sold for like nothing because i don't think the people understood what they had and so i think like it's a double edged sword like i i think i i there is so much unpredictability and i would love for there to be more data because i am a hound for going on card ladder and just building out stuff and yeah i i don't know sort of if there's a real answer to this because it works both ways like i've from there not being public comp data i've also been like hurt by there not being public comp data because people can name their price and and they were chris and and josh were talking about this on the crossover like there's just it's just hard to to sort of like there was a question somebody asked like how do you negotiate with somebody who wants a million dollars for their one on one that was like the question on the crossover and i loved the way they went through it because it was like i don't know like you gotta you gotta figure out a way through it and it's just like that's kind of the way that i've functioned now for six seven years is like wrestling cards just don't have data out there right mhmm yeah i think it it works for you and it can work against you that point you made is is so true the next one i wanna bring up is buying one of ones and then relisting them for two to three times what you paid for this is obviously something that happens very often and very frequent lee in wrestling cards and i'll say this like can buy any card you want and you can do whatever you want with them as long as you're not manipulating individuals like it's your card like go for that and i'm i don't wanna be the person to say you shouldn't do this but i'll just say like my observations as someone who spends my entire professional existence studying markets and categories and collector pockets and niches and understanding dynamics and how things work the wrestling market isn't built for rapid flipping right now can it will it maybe but to do this and think that it's sustainable right now in this moment i don't think is good operating i just i i can't see it sustaining based on what i know about how this works and i understand i don't know everything but just i look at it a lot and then the other point i wanna make and this is something that i think about a lot is ownership of a car does not create value like i don't care what you paid for it like that you you can't just say that because i own this card and i've held this card for a couple weeks there this card is you know two times what it's worth when i bought it i just i don't i don't buy into that at all so those are just some some thoughts under this bullet that i wanted to get off my chest man this is it's topical because we've all seen what's happened on ebay lately and and i think listen i'm with you man sell what sell your cards for whatever price you want you can get what you need like fine all for you all more power to you but it is very visible when you post cards constantly at two to three x the price that they were paid for a couple of months ago like this space is too small like there's there's everybody sees it everybody has the saved searches on ebay where that little blue dot pops up next to tops one zero one panini one zero one and you go on there and it's like a card listed for thirty or forty thousand dollars it like it's visible right like it's not like football or basketball where those cards change hands multiple times per day or multiple times per week in wrestling it's a it's an event right something sells for twenty grand we talk about it because there's not many of them so i think like that that visibility and i think the entrance of karl anthony townsend to the space brings some people who wanna take advantage of that situation rightfully so i would too if i had those cards that i wanted to sell and move and i saw that there was a new shark in the water like you're damn right i'm putting my cards up on ebay if i can now i don't know if that really equates to people building a a vis a visible understanding of those personas and the people that are listing those cards i don't really have anything to say about it because it's not my market but it's like you know it's it's visible right so to your point brett like it's it maybe has some of the negative effect that comes along with the positive effect if some of those cards actually sell good points next one for me is there real growth or just the same cards changing hands this is the new money entering versus just recycled money getting turned over and over again and the way i think about this is i think right now with wrestling cards it's really fun and easy to highlight the big sales and talk about cards elevating in price and we did spend all this time mostly because our friend was the winner talking about the randy orton card wrestlemania patch auto and these are good these are great signals for the health of the market and new buyers coming in but i think we should be spending more time talking about volume and what's happening maybe at the low to mid end and i think those indications really help us understand if this market is expanding because like anyone like new people outside of a karl anthony towns or other a list or b list or d list celebrities coming in like they're probably going to go for the one of one spending thousands out of the gates but most people aren't that way most people are trying to build out sets buying you know cards out of ninety nine stuff that's like easy to access and doesn't cost a lot of money so that's one of the thing that's one of the things that i'm trying to spend more time on is just volume and it seems like there's more volume than ever before especially if you go all the way up at like what card ladders reporting on a monthly basis but yeah i think volume is something i'm trying to pay more attention to so i come with data so let's go i i don't subscribe to the fact that the market is is not growing i am staunchly opposed to any public narrative that says wrestling cards are not growing in twenty twenty four this is card ladders data for wrest wwe cards that have sold above five hundred dollars how many do you think in twenty twenty four were sold across the whole year january first to december thirty first how many sales of above five hundred dollars happened in the wrestling card market two hundred and fifty two thousand three hundred and sixty seven okay i'm i'm way off yeah twenty twenty five so this was a a year so i the reason i went back to twenty twenty four is because there was a lot of products released in twenty twenty four there was not a lot of products released in twenty twenty five do you think it went up or down up slightly it was up more than double forty eight hundred sales above five hundred dollars in twenty twenty five now that's all wwe products not just twenty twenty five products k so but it's still a a down year right there was only three products that were released but still we had more than double the amount of five hundred dollar sales where do you think do you think we're on pace or off pace for twenty twenty six on the big time big time on pace we are at twenty six hundred thirty four sales of greater than five hundred dollars we are forty three percent of the way through the year which means we are on pace for around sixty two hundred greater than five hundred dollar sales k huge growth this is thirty three percent increase year over year like that's wall street would love these numbers right so i think like to say oh the vip velvet rope area those cards are changing hands more frequently but that's the only place that it's happening you mentioned volume everybody is saying hey i wanna buy more wrestling cards and it's happening at these lower levels i can't even pull the data for the hundred dollar sales because there's too many like if you go over ten thousand it it it blanks out on card ladder which i gotta talk to josh and chris about because i'd like to pull more data but like these are these are things that i think are huge indicators of success average sale price is up generate data is telling us that everything is up like i don't subscribe to the fact that wrestling cards are not growing no they they certainly are good data points and the final one for me is are great cards always liquid cards and i think great cards and liquid cards are not the same thing and what the way i always think about this inside wrestling and outside wrestling cards is the greatest cards often have the narrowest buyer pools and i think an easy one thing about that orton card i mean how many people were actually we know too was there someone else and so there's but anyone on the surface would you see look at that card and you talk through it and you all the elements everyone's like man that's a great card for all the reasons you just spent you know thirty minutes talking about but not everyone's like that not everyone's competing for that but that doesn't mean just because there's not you know a hundred people trying to buy it doesn't mean that it's a bad card or something else but so that's how i always try to think about it like the narrower you get typically that means that the cards might be a little more significant than your traditional liquid card that you can walk into any card show in america and sell for exactly the price you want i i posted on main event a year ago and the two year anniversary is coming up coming up here this friday but the i did a post of like the prospective buyer pool as you increase value on the cards it it shrinks exponentially like hundred dollars you got maybe like a thousand two thousand people and then by the time you reach like a ten thousand dollars there's maybe three or four people that are gonna buy that card so agreed i'm gonna go through mine really fast here but i just wanna call out i heard a horror story on instagram this week and it was a card that i was looking at but man like watch yourself now that wrestling cards are bigger like the bad actors are gonna see this as an opportunity to take advantage of people who have not been taken advantage of in the past and i want you guys to who are listening to this just because you know what's going on and i am probably somebody who's been doing this for twenty five years i still get scammed but watch yourself trust is something that cannot be assumed it has to be earned do your do not do friends and family payments do your goods and services protect yourself like just because it's on ebay just because it's through a trusted platform does not mean that there aren't bad actors looking to do stuff that is really bad and as wrestling cards get bigger more and more of those people are gonna come in so i just wanted to call that out psa for everybody public service not professional sports authenticators but psa like watch your back like don't trust anybody take the stone cold steve austin approach please so i don't if you have anything to add there i no do do you have a specific example to call out i don't wanna like put this guy out of the last but but like i think like i i've been scammed before like i've been scammed recently like within the last two or three years and like it just happens man like people find new ways especially the the what i ran into the most was like discords like there are people who professionally sit on discords and scam people and like suggest like they have the like they they did fake middleman deals like these are just like stuff that would never have happened in wrestling cards like any other time but because these guys see new discords new people don't know the history like they're like oh yeah here's the middleman for this discord go send him the card he'll charge you one percent and then you realize it's not the right guy it's some dude in vietnam like i'm sorry that happened to me i backed out before i actually sent anything but i was about to send a paypal payment to somebody to be a middleman on a deal and i realized wait a minute this this name is this address has a vietnam sort of ip address like what is going on here so watch yourself that's all i can yes i i one of the other things i wanted to call out i was listening to a podcast and it said and they said is it more fun to do the opposite of what everyone else is doing is that why so many people are coming to wrestling cards and having fun like i i think it was probably hoge that that said this but i'm not sure he says a lot of great nuggets and i've already called one out here in this segment but is it just more fun to do or maybe it was josh that said this but is it more fun to do the opposite of what other people are doing is is that just part of your collecting experience i think it is i certainly am always i've been saying this for years like try to turn left when others are turning right in the space and the fun part about wrestling cards for anybody who listens to stacking slabs in the shows on here who might not collect wrestling cards which what's the crazy thing is adam is i get feedback from people who listen to the show and don't collect wrestling cards which is great of course yeah but the the best part about wrestling cards to me is the opportunity to not only do that but you can do that and collect unbelievable stuff that likely will hold or go up in value over time because the space is so dominated by player collectors and sometimes some bigger names and bigger cards get lost in the shuffle so like that's what's so appealing to me obviously i'm a wrestling degenerate i watch everything i've been watching it all my whole life i'm a collector so bringing those two worlds together is fun but it doesn't work like football cards or basketball cards where like the goats are in these tiers it's it's all over the place and i think when stuff's all over the place it presents really fun opportunities to get in and buy cards that you love and connect with and sometimes even if it you're spending a little money sometimes like i feel like i'm getting a deal which is always a good thing when i'm trying to pick up a new card yeah i i nothing to add there you nailed it does lack of outside collecting experience from wrestling collectors put a ceiling on growth in our space that that's something that i think about frequently and the reason i say that is because a lot of people in wrestling cards only collect wrestling cards and it's unique right it's it's unique that this exists the way that it does and i think it makes the the space more fun more community oriented easier to build those relationships because you have like minded individuals all chasing the same thing but does it put a ceiling on the growth when you look at relative comparison you just talked about people who don't collect wrestling cards listening to this podcast like we have so much fun collecting wrestling cards it's not about the money for us it's about the experience as much as it is anything and like do you think that that adds a ceiling to things because there's not that greater understanding of how big some of these other sets might be like why the galactics from revolution don't sell for as much in wrestling as they do in basketball or why the planets from cosmic like we were just talking about may have a different approach than they would in other sports i think at first glance it is really easy to see and say that this category is limited and has a lower ceiling because of that but i also think because of that this opens the doors in the eyes of the high end basketball card collector or the high end football card collector or baseball collector who watches wrestling regularly or watches wrestling as a kid and who hears a podcast like this or stumbles across the card on ebay and it gets them in the rabbit hole and then they start to question and ask these questions well why isn't this this flawless card going for the same thing as this tops chrome card and they start doing the math based on what they know in their category and they find opportunities and it's like in anything when when there's opportunities and we connect with them emotionally and we think that there's financial upside typically we'll come in and i think shows like this are important other people in this space creating content are important because it opens the eyes to people that there's opportunity in the space and not only financial opportunity but opportunity to have a lot of fun so i i i think in the moment it feels very capped but if we kind of lay out the road for the next like three to five years there are going to be more people entering the space who aren't even thinking about wrestling cards right now because enough moments percolated in their head for them to say you know what this weekend i'm gonna spend some time trying to understand wrestling cards and when they dig into the data in card letter when they dig into the sets and configuration they look at the sales history they're gonna say oh my god i see an opportunity with wrestler x and i'm just gonna go and so i just see that happening more yeah yeah pinta before this gets released i might need to go buy some pinta cards yeah get it get your get your bag but yeah that's those are my thoughts yeah i think like i think you nailed it like i for me to get a wrestling card grail is what ten grand fifteen grand maximum like in most cases i can't even buy like the most recent set rookie for that price in any other sport and like if i bought the most expensive wrestling card ever sold at like a hundred and thirty two whatever it was like that's not even entry level grail at at in most other sports so i think like there's still a huge amount of opportunity i do not believe there's a ceiling on wrestling cards it all depends on the people surrounding it and the companies that support it so yeah just to sort of highlight a few things just talking about these big sales that sort of drive it i'm not gonna call it the card specifically but there was a sena that sold for fifteen k there was a rock that sold for thirteen and a half like you talk about like hey there are opportunities here to like post these cards for two to three x and get the sales done this like you can go on cardladder and sort by price and see like to brett's point like these sales are happening this flawless sina card sold for a ton and and the rock super factor from the sup the retrospective set sold for thirteen and a half both via best offer so these weren't auctions these were like best offer sales just interesting numbers to throw around and and talk about like how much potential there is when you have new people joining the space right i think that there's a ton of anonymous collectors out there we like to think we know everyone who collects the stuff that we do but there are a lot of people spending really big money on wrestling cards that are adding it to their existing portfolio of other sports or maybe they're celebrities or athletes i just i think we don't even have a clue of some of these people in these sales so i hope we don't see some of these cars i hope they stay locked away for a long time yeah and kyrie sane is another one she had a super fracture with an awesome inscription the red brand from twenty twenty six chrome sold via best offer at seven k recently someone's been buying up the oscar and kyrie cards i loved seeing this because it seems like it's one or two people that that might be doing it and they they have such a huge market internationally we were just talking about that like this is a humongous sale for somebody who's no longer with wwe but this card's absolutely awesome yeah i think that's great right someone just got future endeavored and people are still willing to pay seven k on so i would imagine this is a big time collector with a big bankroll but it's exciting to see because there's so much movement on the roster and it's awesome that these cards still hold value even if they're not an active talent i don't know what happened to my images there but it was an alexa bliss superfractor autograph from cosmic chrome sold for fifty seven fifty so this this is the milky way marks and it's a weird set very small autograph space but i thought the alexa card looked absolutely awesome if if it was on the slide you would see it but it's for whatever reason my images got erased but like it was sold via best offer again so not an auction just interesting to see that all these big cards are selling via best offer maybe that's an indicator to to post your cards this way but seeing the alexa's still hugely collectible she has not won a world championship in five plus years with the pregnancy and and all the wonderful stuff that happened to her there but she's she has a concussion history as well like people are still ready to put a ton of money into alexa bliss yeah she's like on the mount rushmore of collectible goats in wrestling at this point it seems like last card i'll cover here because this was a really unique situation so there were two of these that sold it's the six wcwnwo i don't even know the name of the set but it's like the thirtieth anniversary of the nwo sold for four thousand dollars this one had one of those inscriptions where it says nwo for life it's an awesome awesome card not a sean waltman fan but even this card looks cool it's a throwback to the nineteen ninety eight ninety nine wcw autographs that are so iconic not my favorite set either but four grand via auction this was won by a zero feedback bidder but i know that this was paid and i know that this card ended up with somebody's collection because they posted it on instagram so humongous sale for this is the biggest xbox sale sean wahlman's character list one two three kid nothing's ever come close this is just an insane sale this was in chrome this was in chrome yeah i had i had no idea they're very hard to pull they have i've i've watched i've watched way too many breaks and i've never seen one pull that just shows you they're only out of ten so like a lot of these autographs are very hard to pull and they're gonna run through i think there's some of these that will be in finest maybe but the like there's only three autographs it's like nash six and maybe one other i don't think it was hogan so there's gonna be more of these coming nwo still sells nwo still sells alright let's just do a quick takeover update for the national we are less than two months away my friend i hope you are ready i want to say like if you are planning on coming july thirty first the embassy suites rosemont illinois will be the biggest gathering of wrestling collectors in one spot ever we have room for three hundred and fifty people i expect more than that unfortunately because we have such great publicity from all of our sponsors shout out to mc sports cards sports cards junction sports card junction card shop live bless online card ladder mama breaks thd sports cards bcw wax culture card vault by tom brady is that that might be the best roster of sponsors ever assembled acknowledge our sponsors and let us know you're coming you just made the list email book to last podcast at g mail dot com i i have done some cool things in this space and there's been some rewarding things to work on and we still have a whole lot of stuff left to do with this but to be able to say that we're throwing an event at the national for you the wrestling card collector and these are the companies that are supporting it is who's who it's it's incredible so i am fired up and we we'll share more as it comes but this has been so much fun to to put together yeah can't say enough good things about our sponsors we'll end with this and i think this is right up our alley because we always talk about the cards that are forgotten and lost in the cracks and with all the hype around new cards what is something that you think many collectors might overlook in their journey that should be higher on priority list or target list given all of the glutton of products that have been released maybe some things that people are are forgetting about i would say research like checklist research and understanding the volume of specific parallels in a set over time like that is something especially if i'm spending in the thousands on a wrestling card have been trying to be better at and the more i have researched individual sets and taking a wrestler for example and see how often they appear in sets over history and you start whittling it down like you start to understand the importance of the card at a level that gets me to take action and that's what's happened with a couple recent purchases and i don't know man i love digging in i love learning there's a lot of really good resources out there for wrestling cards for you to understand set configuration construct and the more time i spend there i feel like the less time i feel like i need to be just like checking safe searches and part of it is just trying to justify like my instincts tell me that this is something that's at a pretty good price point let me do some research on the back end so this this this category is moving really fast there's breaks on top of breaks new products being released new talent people are getting excited but i would if anyone is looking for like something else to do i would say slow down for a minute and focus in on trying to learn more about just like the history of products and it can be something as simple as like starting from like okay when chrome cards and you can classify chrome and prism in there like when chrome cards existed like how many x happened over this period of time and i think you'll find some interesting things that's what i've been doing i think there's two types of buys that you would like coming off of what you just said there's the buy of like i just saw this guy on tv i need a card right mhmm and then you just buy the one that's fits your budget fits your thing and just you just go and buy it and it shows up at your door and you're excited until the next guy shows up on tv then there's a type of buy where you're going through the data on card ladder you're going through historical searches you're going through stuff and you realize i didn't know that this card exists or i didn't i'm i haven't paid enough attention to this things like the older top sets especially like i found crazy stuff like we all love the garbage pail kids coming out in chrome not many people know that there was a previous sticker set that had all those cards so people have discovered those as a result of the new ones like stuff like that through research like people always say like i can't compete in this market well you can if you put in the work and i think like that's where a lot of the the the separation of church and state for most collectors is i don't want this to be work i want this to be fun i want this to be a hobby and so your your commentary around research and finding those edges is so key to having success here these days just with the growing level of competition but i would say even in addition to that like as a title match topic this is where we usually get the time to sort of like think about something in a different perspective and i think like for me like most collectors overlook the importance of the relationships that they build on this hobby and we've always said that collect don't collect on an island find your your trusted people and build around those relationships and we've said it so many times it seems like it's cliche at this point but it is still the most important thing in this hobby is relationships with other collectors relationships with brands so not just you know interpersonal relationships of brett and i talking via text message i'm talking about your relationship to how you feel about a certain set that's released so you can curate your experience in a lot better if i know my relationship with chrome is better i'm gonna wanna engage more with that product versus something like universe right so i think like the relate the whole idea of the relationship all encompassing is just is so important and so many people overlook it and it's it's just one of those lost arts of like i'm a salesperson i know you've you've had marketing experience and sales experience you sell your brand every week like you have to be able to sell yourself and you have to be able to sell your your motives and your collection and it has to be visible and i think a lot of people just wanna focus on the next deal getting the best price penny to penny instead of saying like hey maybe i'll pay ten dollars extra but i'm gonna build this relationship higher than it should have been right yeah one hundred percent i mean an example that i have with just an individual in who's also happens to be it's like a full circle happens to be a sponsor for a wrestling card takeover but brian thz like i recently bought two impeccable roman reigns twenty twenty two from him and i bought the first one and the which was the green out of five and the experience was like so easy and seamless and i saw he had an added twenty five and i was like it it i i wanted the card even more after the experience was so good that i was like hey yeah give me the other one let's take that and so i don't know like that really like buying from people who i know and trust really matters and i will always look at his stuff because of that i will also say make sure it's not a one way street make sure that you're adding value to the conversation like the more it's a reciprocity thing the more you give in the space helping people out seeing cards noticing something in a break sharing that information to and and someone who can benefit like you will get something back on the other side i can promise like that stuff compounds especially in wrestling cards so this is yeah great great point yeah relationships are everything especially in this space where it feels like everyone kinda knows each other in in some way shape or form yeah that's the key it's like this is a really small area and like man you talk about the hobby karma is real right like let's let's not deny this like i don't believe in karma overall but hobby karma is real like if you do something nice for somebody like they remember it and like where they should but i've i've just those things happen so frequently where you can say hey this card was pulled and people do that for me all the time and i try and say thank you every single time because they didn't have to do that they didn't have to like reach out and say hey this card was just pulled or this this person has this card for sale like you've you've benefited from that with your andrew luck collection you've benefited for that for your colts collection i've and i mean you're just talking about how you benefited from those types of relationships in your wrestling card collection mine too like i would not be halfway to where i am without the community and and ryan and i nosh it's like it's nauseous probably feeling for some people how much we talk about this but it's true like this is what drives our community and it's it's so key and i hope people don't overlook it but you know that was one of the reasons that put this as a title match topic just to to cover that so final thing for me i and i'll put him over because he's not here but just i want people to understand like if you don't already the role that ryan plays in this space from the point of view of what he does every day professionally walking in and running a one of the best hobby shops in the country it's all about dealing with people like dealing with people being helpful answering questions and that's what ryan is doing all the time and so why i like listening to him on this show is because he offers that perspective and i think whether it's ryan or it's someone else like it's really important to listen to those people who have their entire livelihood on customer service and being helpful and i think the more people that in the wrestling card space that have that mindset and mentality i think that only means good things for us all of us in our cards so yeah it's just that we wanted to while he's out we'll we'll put him over put him man sure he deserves it and the funny thing about it is like he owns he has he's probably one of the more visible card shops in the nation and no one dislikes him like there are there's like no single person on this planet that has a bad thing to say about ryan bannister for a reason and because he's great at what he does and he's not the only one like you know you you you're by you're next to next door to andy at indy card exchange and like chad in sports card junction and like all these guys run these shops and have become pillars of the card community because of that like we we have a few of them as our sponsors like even the breakers like stephanie at card shop live and what brando does or i'm sorry what brando does at card shop live and what stephanie does at mama breaks there we go like like they build communities around this and like it's so awesome to see how people react and and do those things and and i i can't say enough good things i mean like even a newer sort of entry to the space in like the wax culture who's another sponsor of ours like mhmm they've recently sort of exploded into wrestling and they've built a great community as well and that's why we've welcomed them on as a sponsor for wrestling card takeover and you know timmy at at cardshot at card vault by tom brady like these are the reasons they're the sponsors for this event because they're invested in the community and putting ryan over as sort of like one of the initial people to sort of operate in that space as being like this helpful entity with with chad as as one of our original sponsors for main event like i can't say enough good things about what they do for this community too so yeah more we miss ryan it's having on the you talk about it all the time you and ryan when you're talking about buying into brakes you of course you're you're buying because you wanna add to your pc but in most of those instances you're buying because you like the people who are running them and you're building that relationship and that's so important it's just like if you got a business don't be a dick like be likable create good content like be helpful it's like i feel the same way like if i'm sitting there on the couch and there's someone breaking a product that i am somewhat interested in but i really like the person like i'll go buy a spot and hang out for a little bit like that's this this is the world we're we're we're evolving into and so i think brand and reputation really matter and it's it's it's not hard and it doesn't cost anything to to be helpful and so i have noticed the people who are willing to sponsor an event like wrestling card takeover are willing to help out people that they don't know from adam those are the those are the brands and those are businesses that continue to grow and we need those brands in in the wrestling card community to continue to elevate what we're doing here yeah so thanks again to our sponsors ryan well we'll we'll have you back next week brett thank you for taking an hour and a half out of your day to to stand in for ryan you did a a a tremendous job and we've had a number of cohosts kevin and jamison and everything who stepped in and stepped up while while we've had to take a break from our podcast life to to live our real life so thank you so much for being a part of this it's always great to have you on as a tag team partner even though the free bird rule doesn't always apply and i think like it's good to have different perspectives right so ryan and i you know that's why we bring on special guests as much as we can but you know having different perspectives is what makes podcast content great so thank you for for taking the time and thank you man like you are the most visible active contributor to the wrestling card community and when this whole idea popped up that this was a potential thing i remember i think i told ryan i was like on the phone i was like well i this can't possibly happen without adam you're a machine at putting this out and continuing to create and add value and i feel very lucky that you and ryan are both doing book to last on the stacking slabs network i i i love listening every week so appreciate all your efforts as well man absolutely absolutely so with that we will see you next week ryan will be back hopefully refreshed and not lobster fresh sunburned but you never know he's he's he's spent a lot of time by the pool having some daddy drinks so you know that's good for him good on him he's he works harder than anybody so we we miss him we we miss his his opportunity to join the podcast but we'll have him back next week we'll talk about i'm sure the final is the king of the ring we'll talk about some of the updates to some of the product list stadium club's on the way national's on the way all of that other stuff so it's gonna be amazing and we'll see you next week thanks brett thanks again for joining